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The point of my saying that a fish came from a rock is that life evolved from non-life, which has never been scientifically observed. l337, your post implies that there are many scientific facts that prove evolution. Could you provide one of them?
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Who's religious here, if so what?
Just interested if theres any strange correlation between gamers/religion (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
FWIW I'm a pretty strong athiest.
- Mark
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Won't be getting very in depth here, and I definitely won't get involved in the upcoming debates, but here goes:
Catholic/Anglican. But when it comes to gaming, I pretty much throw it out the window with a massive spray of swears and things I don't mean (like Goldeneye, CoD4, and GH3), lol.
Actually I'm interested in your premise(?): a gamer/religion connection. I would have never thought about it!
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Inactive catholic. I believe that there's something upthere that rules us all but it's not even close of what people in general think of god. It'd be something that we humans would never understand. Could also be something like the "force of the universe" or whatever that makes things flow smoothly, not the god that put jesus on the world.
Religion was/is much more of an organization to get money and power rather than helping people through faith. We all have our own faiths and own gods, religion just doesn't make any sense to me.
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Technically I'm an inactive member of the Mormon religion. I was a very strong member until I was 14 when I realized that there's more to life than doing what I'm told to do by a 90 year old guy standing at a pulpit.
I'm now stuck between atheism and agnosticism. I've had a few philosophy classes and even though I don't really think there's a higher power, because I can't prove it, I'd probably say I'm closer to being agnostic.
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I'm with wiwf, I'm not getting involved in another pointless debate on this
but, I am an active member of a Baptist (though non-traditional) Church
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lol @ all the religion topic disasters we've had. Lets try to keep this a sharing experience, and keep the judging to a minimum =).
I grew up in a Christian Lutheran church, was quite active in the youth activities, was an assisting minister etc, but have never been a very strong believer of everything that was preached. I felt the church was a good way to make strong connections with good people and to better yourself as a person, but today away from my home town I don't have much of a personal desire to attend church.
As far as actually identifying my FAITH with a religion, it would probably be more agnostic / atheist.
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I dont believe in anything, and that should count as a religion. My religion! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148)
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how good can religion be if people start worrying about fights as soon as the topic is brought up?
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ahhhhhh don't speak negatively about religion, WAAAR this means WAAAARRR!!!!
nah... I don't really feel like playing that level if I would be completely honest
btw, what's religion?
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I'm an atheist, I've never believed in anything like a god or whatever.
I'm more interested in where the religious people are from. I think almost all active european eliters are atheists. It's probably going to be way different on the other side of the ocean. I think that's the correlation.
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I'm an ist!
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I was raised Catholic, but my parents (fortunately) had a lacking interest. I just actively don't worry about it, because whatever is, is, and no one can change or understand it. At least, that's what I believe. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e) It's not worth my time.
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I'm a protestant, though my mom's side is eastern orthodox so it really depends what mood I'm in to believe in what. I always have faith in God guiding me through life and that Jesus died for our sins so that we can lead purer lives. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
I think anyone who believes in anything guiding them through life, or any sort of phenomenon, believes in God in some sense. Like if you wore a certain shirt and noticed people were nicer to you that day, it's almost like believing in God, except you're believing in that shirt and thus in some sense its kind of like a religion. Next time you wear that shirt, odds are you will notice people being nice to you more, and thus you believe in that shirt being lucky or having some special powers even though they might not be correlated. Even believing in yourself that you can do something, I think that's similar to having faith in God, or having faith in your shirt or whatever it may be. Even if you go beyond these explanations and try to find a scientific explanation for everything I still think you're believing in science, having your faith in that and so I think everyone really believes in something, and has faith in something, and thus everyone is "religious" in some sense.
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Family are Catholic, brought up a Protestant, now have lost my faith. Music is my religion.
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Music Is My Savior. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f)
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thats exactly what I thought when I saw durk wrote that (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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WAAAR this means WAAAARRR!!!!
Jesus camp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c94b1_dx9Q8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c94b1_dx9Q8)
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I read a hilarious list of quotes from christian chat rooms. Crazy fundamentalist kinda stuff like killing athiests and anti evolution arguments.
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You won't be laughing at the quotes from the Islamic chat rooms!
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Those kinds of things would be funny if some people didn't actually believe them...
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I believe in not believing
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I'm exactly what GregK said, wow. I used to be monster Christian, but now I said that if I met God, I would slap him in the face and tell him to %!#$ off, I want nothing to do with a god that the bible talks about, just seems so unfair. I'm agnostic.
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Jimbo ate everything at the last supper. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
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born raised catholic but then just kinda didn't believe it.
Agnostic for me
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Atheist. It works for me, so I'm happy.
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copy that durk
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You won't be laughing at the quotes from the Islamic chat rooms!
LMAO
im christian/baptist... i use to go to church all the time until i was 14... just kinda stopped goin
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Well, I don't believe there is a God in the ordinary sense for sure.
But it's still of course fascinating how the Universe came to be and stuff like that, something must have triggered it.
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SZ is probably a dinmorist. Yes, I bet $10 on that.
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I feel the same way as you, SZ.
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SZ's mor fucked God and she gave birth to the Universe 9 months later. That's why she is so old but she's still amazing in the sack. Besides, pushing all that out of your vagina takes a big heave-ho!
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I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!
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I read a hilarious list of quotes from christian chat rooms. Crazy fundamentalist kinda stuff like killing athiests and anti evolution arguments.
I read the same thing. Hopefully you realize that the people who think like that are a tiny, crazy minority.
As for me, agnostic. I have lots of friends with all different beliefs and its great, so long as nobody tries to force their beliefs on me. I really, really hate that.
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SZ it's called singularity
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born on spirit family, raised as catholic, studied in catolic school from 7 to 18
Pure atheist since 14 (i'm 20 now)
i hated all kind of churches and faith once, even got to an anti christ level, but i realized i'm so great, that i have an awesome faith in myself now, and i even like other people to have religion, and dont even care about religion wars now
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I'm a Christian! I love God and I believe He created the universe and rules over it.
Anyone who wants to talk about their problems with God is welcome to, anyone who doesn't doesn't have to.
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Agnostic / Athiest
Goes back and forth.
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christian - presbyterian
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Thiradell, how old are you?
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he's 16
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That might explain why he still loves God then =P
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First person Alicia Keys thanked when she won a grammy tonight was God. And she is a very successful person. I don't think believing/not believing has anything to do with how successful you are (eventhough it seems all the successful people our age [the ones with lots of money and who get laid a lot]) are the ones who don't believe in God.
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"I don't think believing/not believing has anything to do with how successful you are"
That's quite obvious. The pope has much more faith in god than me and is way more successful than me. BjΓΒΆrk doesn't believe in god either and is much more famous than me. God is a creation of the human being, therefore you're dealing with your own imagination of him. It's all about believing in yourself (aka, "god").
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i pwn the pope
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Yeah that's what I was trying to say in my first post. I think you need to believe in something, whether its God guiding you through life, or just yourself you still need to have faith in something in order to get through life and so it's kind of like a "religion" either way.
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yeah like believing you're good at GE. when (I'm) not. but I believe so I must be winning in life.
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i pwn the pope
I could've pwned him in real life in October 2005, during my school trip to Rome. We were in the St. Peter's Basilica and suddenly a long row of old men in traditional clothes came in (some high placed bishops or something like that), with at the back the pope himself. Nobody knew it until he was very close and when the crowd had actually noticed it was him, there was a tidal wave of flashes.
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I'm not active in any church right now, but overall I am religious and have a belief in God. I was raised Baptist, and have also attended Lutheran, nondenominational, Nazerene, and a couple others while growing up and in high school. Most of the family on my Dad's side is Catholic, but my immediate family never much cared for the Catholic denomination much.
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I grew up as a Lutheran Christian and have been a Christian (nondenominational) for the last 10 or so years. I spend time daily reading scripture and believe in having a close personal relationship with the Lord.
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such delusions
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lol @ all the religion topic disasters we've had. Lets try to keep this a sharing experience, and keep the judging to a minimum =).[/quote] such delusions[/quote]Nice work.
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Packattack's a believer?! Sweet, man!
Jimbo, my parents (who are both 50+) are both very strong Christians, as is the rest of my family (five siblings, one of whom is married). I don't plan to deviate from my faith as I grow older.
Ryan, your opinion of "It doesn't matter what you believe in as long as you believe" doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The more important thing is the object of your faith. Say there's two guys, and they both have to walk across ponds. One pond has really thick ice, and the other pond's ice is super thin. The first guy, the one walking across the thick pond, has faith, but not very much. He believes and is willing to walk across, but he does so cautiously, almost crawling across. Yet the ice sustains him, bringing him to the other side. The second guy's faith is really strong. He has no doubts about what he is doing and tells himself he is absolutely certain he will be all right. He confidently strides onto the thin ice...and falls in. He had the strongest faith in the world, but what he had faith in did not sustain him.
The most important thing is what you believe in. That's how I see it, anyway.
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how does that differ from everyone that dies no matter what they believe in etc? everyone has bad times surely, and I don't think faith really changes life, it's the mindset and other factors.
few days ago South Park ep, something like "Kenny was very religious yet he still was taken away from us" etc
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lol @ all the religion topic disasters we've had. Lets try to keep this a sharing experience, and keep the judging to a minimum =).
such delusions[/quote]Nice work.[/quote] truth hurts
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***Please note this post is somewhat half-joking and not intended to cause any problems. Take it for what it is, a fun post***
Let's look at some evidence:
Mark Rayson is:
-ugly
-addicted to gambling
-a cocky bastard
-an immoral bread winner
-a douche who gets his hand cut in a door from being a retard
-does not believe in God
Ryan White is:
-good looking
-well dressed
-popular
-a successful university student and hockey player
-a well respected member in his community and online community
-believes in God
The truth hurts!
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God loves you, as he loved Jacob.
- Lost 03x07
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I'm gonna text you like "ths isnt wrkng out. we r brking up" And then I'm gonna tell all my friends you're gay.
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Say there's two guys, and they both have to walk across ponds. One pond has really thick ice, and the other pond's ice is super thin. The first guy, the one walking across the thick pond, has faith, but not very much. He believes and is willing to walk across, but he does so cautiously, almost crawling across. Yet the ice sustains him, bringing him to the other side. The second guy's faith is really strong. He has no doubts about what he is doing and tells himself he is absolutely certain he will be all right. He confidently strides onto the thin ice...and falls in. He had the strongest faith in the world, but what he had faith in did not sustain him.
The most important thing is what you believe in. That's how I see it, anyway.
This is a terrible analogy. If he would have taken confident strides or baby steps, the thin ice would break regardless.
I'd interpret your analogy to say "No matter what faith you have, you're going to fall through the ice."
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Actually I thought it was a brilliant analogy and really made me think its important to have faith in something strong like God. It changed my mind about believing in other things like a lucky shirt or some pick up line you have confidence in.
The point is that you need to have faith in something great. Change what you say to "No matter if you have faith in something weak, you will fail... BUT if you have faith in something great you will succeed."
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Goose's post below should be disregarded at all costs.
It is completely false, and was simply created in Goose's mind.
Here's a classic Goose quote that he once said to a girl " I want to kiss you, but I don't know how"
That would get a man killed at my school.
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Thats not one of the commandments foo!
My avatar was Taylor Swift, not Carrie Underwood! Two dumbass posts in a row!
Larkin post 1) "You broke one of the 10 commandements! Thouh (note the terrible spelling) shall (*shalt) not lie! You're not a good university student, you're failing!" (I'm not actually failing)
Larkin post 2) "Change your avatar back to Carrie Underwood, (was Taylor Swift,) the new one doesn't cut it. (didn't realize it was Miley Cyrus somehow.)
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A few people I know are religious and I don't really talk about it with them but they know strongly where I am. A few others have 'faith in something but they don't know what' - this is what I find hardest to comprehend. If people have faith and it makes them feel better about themselves, and makes them a better person then I kind of acknowledge that. Tell me if I'm in the wrong area completely but is having faith and having faith in god two completely different things? Can a person have faith and not believe in a god?
I've been watching a lot of Richard Dawkins documentaries, and reading many of his books lately and what he talks about confirms my belief even more solidly than I thought. To deny evolution as we know it and to accept creationalism is just so people can satisfy the need to explain the things that can't be explored further than we humanly possibly know right now. (my words, not his)
You're all nutters, but I still love you loads <3
- Mark
edit: post 1111 weeeeeee
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Yeah like I explained earlier you can have faith in anything, doesn't have to be God, although Tyler showed me how having faith in God is the best thing to have faith in (at least in my opinion of course.)
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I think it's best to have faith in yourself.
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Flaugh.gif&hash=657f1346088ce2081c398c7379c3a47e4cf5861b) @ motoX completely missing the point of the ice thing
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"If he would have taken confident strides or baby steps, the thin ice would break regardless."
Um...yes, exactly. And no matter how you walk on the thick ice, it'll hold you up.
l337, you speak of evolution as if it's proven science. I personally think that "thousands of years ago a supreme God created the world" is more realistic then "billions of years ago a bunch of random matter exploded and eventually evolved into the incredibly ordered universe that now exists." Evolution outside of change within species (microevolution) has not been scientifically observed at all.
You're right when you say that there is stuff out there that we cannot possibly know, but not only has the Holy Spirit convicted my heart to believe in creation, it seems to me to be the most logical explanation for the existence of the world.
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it doesn't really matter what you think how it happened, since only the truth is the way it went. it may be that it was never created and always existed, just like many other things might be the reality.
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I think the word "realistic" doesn't suit here. What's realistic to us, in our world, doesn't have to mean anything really. A squirrel could have created the universe as much as a guy with beard could, we can't know that. hum hum.
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Thir: We have scientifically proven things to have been around much earlier than just thousands of years ago though.
The only creationism argument I agree don't disagree with is that instead of the big bang, it was created by some higher power. There's scientific evidence to prove that the dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. In your argument, do you assume that the creator planted dinosaur bones which would carbon date to prior to their being put there?
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Thir, do you believe the world is 5000 years old?
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The LDS religion believes it's roughly 6000 years old. If my memory serves me right, the Book of Mormon begins with Lehi's family around 600 BC
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God isn't necessarily a guy with a beard, or some old white guy who lives in the cloud. In fact I always thought of God as just being some form of power which we simply symbolize as a human. I don't even think God has a gender (though we call him "He," we also call ships "she" and other non-biologically human things by human pronouns.) God certainly is not a biological human, at least I never thought so.
The one guy who's name I forget added up all the dates in the bible and came up with it the Earth and the Heavens being created in 4004 BC, which is 6012 years ago. Mind you he did this a long time ago so the accuracy of it might not be great. Take it for what you want.
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all things that are proven, how do you know they ARE? did you check them? you just assume what is documented is correct or something. just because people have "found" proof for what is or would be, how would you know they didn't make it up? you can't be sure unless you check everything yourself, since otherwise you have no argument if you rely on things you can't backup yourself.
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That argument can be argued for both sides.
"Have you done the study to prove the big bang happened?"
"Did you carbon date that bone?"
"Did you translate the bible to English to make sure all the words were accurate?"
Hell! "Were you there when he saw the angel and made sure he wrote it down exactly as he saw it?"
That argument can be made for nearly anything.
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Jesus was an Arab, Goose. He wasn't white.
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"Jimbo ate everything at the last supper" = gold!
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indeed it can be used for possibly everything, but that just means you should be more open-minded and don't cling to whatever you heard from the get-go or whatever.
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I think you're preaching to the choir with that comment. I'm agnostic. I don't personally believe there's a God, but I accept that it's possible to argue that it's just as likely to have one.
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There's scientific evidence to prove that the dinosaurs lived millions of years ago.
Like...what? Carbon dating? Isn't that where they determine how old dinosaur bones are by where they find them in the rocks and how old the rocks are by what kinds of bones they find in them (circular reasoning)?
I am not a Mormon, but, yeah, about 6,000 years according to the genealogies of the Bible. 4,000 or so before Jesus and 2,007 and a month and a half since His death and resurrection.
MotoXRider, I believe in the Bible's validity partly because there are tons and tons of historical copies that have been archaeologically found that correspond almost directly to the Bibles we have today. But more importantly, Jesus, during His time on the earth, fulfilled over 1,000 prophecies in the Old Testament, written before His incarnation. The account of His life was written by eyewitnesses and confirmed by many other people who were also there, and have been preserved very carefully ever since. The Bible also says that all Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for training in righteousness, so I believe that God has guarded His Word and kept it true to this day. As such, Wouter, I believe in the account of creation given in the first chapter of Genesis as truth; if you don't want to, that's fine.
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no, I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe something they already believe in, I'm just saying keep an open mind for other options, because it really doesn't matter how anyone thinks it happened, it's very unlikely that anyone really knows what happened.
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That's not how carbon dating works at all, if that's what the church is telling its 'members' nowdays then they definitely have something to hide. You accept all forms of science in your life, eg. you don't drink poision, because it will fuck up your body and kill you. You dont go jump off a cliff and hope to float, because you know gravity will drag you down and kill you. You abide by so many laws of science but as soon as science questions the fact that a supernatural power didn't create the universe it suddenly doesn't matter and you religious people are quick to shrug it off, and continue to abide by your bible... don't get me started on the bible (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e) A lot of people are bashing Scientology lately because of the brainwashing aspect, but I think this happens in ALL religions, people just don't know/care about it. I leave you with a quote by Dawkins. "The god of the old testament is arguably one of the most unpleasant characters in all fiction. Jealous and proud of it, a petit unjust unforgiving control freak, a vindicative blood thirsty ethnic cleanser, a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, malevolent bully." i just stared at wouters avatar for about 20 seconds before wondering wtf was I doing. im going crazy
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There are plenty of people who can drink poison or jump off cliffs and don't die because they truly believe they can do it and they succeed. Just like people who walk over fire and things like that. Don't tell me for one second faith can't overcome science in some situations, and that the creation of the universe isn't one of these situations.
Yeah you can give me a scientific situation why the guy walked over fire and didn't get burned but it's a lot more beautiful if the explanation was that he believed he could do it and so he did.
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Faith can't overcome science in any situation. Please prove me wrong. Please prove James Randi wrong, he offers 1 million dollars to anyone who can show a paranormal ability under controlled circumstances. He has done this for 20 years or something. He was the one who debunked Uri Geller, and several other frauds, probably most famous is Sylvia Browne who accepted his challenge back in 2001, but still hasnt followed it through. Says it all.
Actually now i read that the 1 million challenge has been discontinued so they can use the money for other stuff. Evidently, no one was ever gonna get it.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Browne)
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^ Interesting! Didn't know about it.
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any info about Uri, the dude is all of a sudden "topic of the year" and there's a tv show about him and stuff.
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lol@Goose
The reason they don't die isn't because of faith. It's because of science. i.e. they don't fall enough to puncture any major organs, don't drink enough poison to die, or have toughened up the soles of their feet. Don't tell me that if somebody had enough faith that they could fly, they could because it defies the laws of physics (aka science).
The reason I don't believe the bible is because it's written as an interpretation of what someone saw. I've seen Chris Angel fly from one building to another. Does that mean he can defy physics? Doubtful, but from what I saw, it sure looked like it. I could write all day about how he must be some sort of son of God because he can do supernatural things that I can't. Does that make it true? Does it make it true if 1000 people wrote about it? Does it make it true if 1000 people wrote about 1000 different things they saw him do? In my opinion, no. He's just successfully convinced people that he's a good magician because we know the laws of physics. Who knows what people did and didn't know back then, but I'm willing to guess they didn't know that people fall at 9.8m/s.
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I know the reason isn't because of faith, but it's not like you would do any of that without faith. Why would you jump off a cliff if you didn't have faith in the science that you were going to live? Don't say non religious people have faith because they do, in science, and I think you can consider science a religion in that sense.
Lets say your mom gets a terrible cancer and she is going to die. You can either choose to have faith that she will live or not. If she dies, then you can say "oh it's because of science, the cancer killed her." Or if she lives you can go "wow, science said she was going to die for sure but I really believed she would live, and she did." Now sure, maybe there would be some scientific explanation of why she lived, but isn't it comforting to be able to believe in something even though science is completely against it? Not having faith is like choosing to sleep without a blanket because you're not going to die if you don't sleep with one. Having faith is a beautiful thing.
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There are plenty of people who can drink poison
I stopped reading here (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f)
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People can believe in god if they like, but to actually try and argue that he exists in a debate is rediculous.
As soon as someone attempts to debate in a topic such as this it shows that they have no real understanding of the meaning of the word faith. They may think they do, but if they are so immature as to try and place logic into a situation that is ultimately supernatural then you can rest assured that they are not coming from a place of wisdom.
I dont believe in God. I think anyone who considers humans to be the centre of the universe is either directly or indirectly arrogant. I believe that 'God' is actually something that exists in every human already. I think it a terrible shame upon the human race that so much credit is given to external gods and not on humans themselves.
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Don't say non religious people have faith because they do, in science, and I think you can consider science a religion in that sense.
Ryan has hit the nail on the head with that one, my goodness. I find it interesting all you guys think faith in God and science are irreconcilable, because they're not. I am not against science. At all. What I am against is unproven theories of evolution. l337: Okay, how does carbon dating work? And, answer me this: Without some kind of supreme being to create the world, how did the world come into existence? I am not quick to shrug off science or theories of evolution, I want you to tell me your theories and then I will try to scientifically debunk them.
Do you actually know anything about the God of the Bible, or do you just like quoting Dawkins? God created the world and gave Adam and Eve a wonderful place to live in; THEY chose sin. God led His people to the promised land and gave them a blessed life; THEY chose to stray away from Him. Then He got angry (and rightly so), they were sorry and asked for mercy, and He forgave them, compassionately. This happens time and and time again in the Old Testament. Then God sent His only begotten Son to die for the sins of the world because He loves us so much! While we were still sinners, living in defiance and blaspheming His Name, He sent His Son to DIE! To be horribly cruelly tortured and die on a cross! And you tell me He's a malevolent bully?!?!?!? He offers you eternal life in heaven if you will only confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead and you call him an unforgiving control freak. Yes, He wants control of our lives, but He only wants it so that He can show us that living for Him is far more satisfying then anything else, for when we know God, we are united with the inseparable love of Christ that is far more glorious then any sufferings we can experience in this world!
To Karl: Sorry, but I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. To believe that the ridiculously minutely detailed universe (look at a molecule, for goodness' sake) evolved from chance occurrences takes more faith then believing that a God designed the world, in my opinion.
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Don't say non religious people have faith because they do, in science, and I think you can consider science a religion in that sense.
Ryan has hit the nail on the head with that one, my goodness. I find it interesting all you guys think faith in God and science are irreconcilable, because they're not. I am not against science. At all. What I am against is unproven theories of evolution. l337: Okay, how does carbon dating work? And, answer me this: Without some kind of supreme being to create the world, how did the world come into existence? I am not quick to shrug off science or theories of evolution, I want you to tell me your theories and then I will try to scientifically debunk them.
Do you actually know anything about the God of the Bible, or do you just like quoting Dawkins? God created the world and gave Adam and Eve a wonderful place to live in; THEY chose sin. God led His people to the promised land and gave them a blessed life; THEY chose to stray away from Him. Then He got angry (and rightly so), they were sorry and asked for mercy, and He forgave them, compassionately. This happens time and and time again in the Old Testament. Then God sent His only begotten Son to die for the sins of the world because He loves us so much! While we were still sinners, living in defiance and blaspheming His Name, He sent His Son to DIE! To be horribly cruelly tortured and die on a cross! And you tell me He's a malevolent bully?!?!?!? He offers you eternal life in heaven if you will only confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead and you call him an unforgiving control freak. Yes, He wants control of our lives, but He only wants it so that He can show us that living for Him is far more satisfying then anything else, for when we know God, we are united with the inseparable love of Christ that is far more glorious then any sufferings we can experience in this world!
To Karl: Sorry, but I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. To believe that the ridiculously minutely detailed universe (look at a molecule, for goodness' sake) evolved from chance occurrences takes more faith then believing that a God designed the world, in my opinion.
I think that Thiradell just described very nicely what I believe as well. I'd rather be slandered, ridiculed and hated for my belief & dedication in God than ignore the truth set in the Bible. It is far more important to me to get to know God personally than make any amount of money, meet any person, or achieve any kind of accomplishment in this world because anything that I do that isn't for God is eternally worthless. If God would let His own son be crucified on the cross just so we can have our sins forgiven and all I have to do is accept Jesus as the Messiah to have eternal life, I'll gladly worship and give my life for that God. I look forward to arriving in my real home when I die someday where I'll spend eternity with Christ in heaven and I pray that God will touch all of your lives in a similar way at some point in your lives.
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These last two posts just made me cry (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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Thiradell (http://thiradell.u.yuku.com/) - From the message you wrote in response to my post it seems that you have no idea what I was talking about. Don't worry though, I didnt expect you to.
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Mark, people only directly attack Scientology more than other religions because Scientology requires you to pay them to be brainwashed.
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I've heard about enough people that killed their own son (I would be surprised if noone ever had), but I don't see why that's an act you should be worshipping. wouldn't it mean much more if he sacrificed himself or something?
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*shudder*
Religion breeds such ignorance it's scary.
I'm glad I live in a secular part of the world.
And also, science can't explain how the Universe came to be yet, but they're working on it instead of taking the easy way and assigning God as the cause.
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adapted from a ricky gervais sketch.
Mary: Hi sup
Joseph: Not much, you?
Mary: Not much. I'm pregnant by the way
Joseph: Sorry what.
Joseph: Have you been having it off behind my back?
Mary: [pause] No
Joseph: What.
Jospeh: How the fck did this happen?
Mary: . [long pause] 2 ways....
Mary: 1. I was washing myself down in the sea of gallilee, and a bit of spunky water must have
Jospeh: NO.
Mary: hmmm
Mary: 2. The baby....[long pause] it's gods, he put it there.
Joseph: Ah cool, explains everything! *high 5*
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Without some kind of supreme being to create the world, how did the world come into existence? I am not quick to shrug off science or theories of evolution, I want you to tell me your theories and then I will try to scientifically debunk them.
So you're suggesting that instead of the world just always being in existence, it was created by somebody else (God) 6000 years ago because apparently something can't be in existence for an infinite amount of time. If that's the case, then who created God? Has he been in existence for all time? Isn't that the same reason why you said he must have created the Earth (because the Earth couldn't have been around forever)?
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MotoXRider: No, I absolutely believe that things can be eternal. But the world is obviously not. The world exists in and is regulated by time, and is obviously decaying (Second Law of Thermodynamics, etc.) God has been in existence for all time, yes, I believe He created the world and the beginning of time. Believing in an eternal God is where my faith (assurance of things hoped for, conviction of things not seen) does take over and go a bit beyond science.
ShadowZero: What in my posts has shown me to be ignorant? I'm glad you see that science has not proved how the world evolved. I personally see overwhelming evidence in the world that just about everything in existence was designed, implying that there was a Designer. If you look at a wristwatch, you don't say to yourself, "Well, I'm not sure how this watch came to be, but I'll study, develop some theories, and try to figure it out." You say, "Someone designed and made this watch, which is obvious by how finely created it is."
Karl: So you're a pantheist?
Packattack: Right on, man. Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, yes, indeed.
Wouter: God sent His Son to die for us while we were sinners, wretches in His eyes committing acts of horrible sin each and every day. Jesus did choose to die, though He didn't want to. God sent His Son, and Jesus chose to give Himself up on the cross.
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I feel like your definition of God is a cop out because we can prove that things existed much prior to ~6000 years ago. It seems like your reasoning for everything is that God designed the Earth to have things on it that appeared to be older than the Earth. This isn't the argument of "Science can't prove the big bang," because I do believe that to be arguable, but the fact that there is such a huge disparity between what Science guesses the age of the Earth to be versus how old your bible says it to be is what is so daunting to me.
Science guesses that the Earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old. If the bible guessed that it was say 4 billion years old instead of 4.5 billion, I would understand your argument a bit more, but it doesn't. 4.5 billion is not even close to 6000. Why would you accept parts of science and deny other parts that are equally as reliable?
I also didn't mention this earlier, but wanted to touch on it. Goose, faith is believing in something you can't prove. I can prove that if you jump off a cliff, you'll fall down, and not up. I don't have faith that it will happen, I know it will happen. I can even prove it will happen. If someone has cancer and lives, it can be scientifically proven. My sister has cancer (in remission). We could have had all the faith in the world that she would live, but unless we took her to the doctor to get something done about it, she wouldn't have lived. I can tell you that is true because it's proven that cancer kills people. It's not faith at all if you can prove it.
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http://www.rense.com/general69/obj.htm
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http://www.rense.com/general69/obj.htm
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6)
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I don't even want to be a part of this conversation, but that Carlin monologue is very funny.
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I laugh at people who though the earth was flat, I laugh at people who lived without technology, and in a few years people will laugh at *us* believing in God.
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Yeah, but those people will probably be worshipping a new set of gods, so I laugh at them in advance.
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What about the billions laughing at you guys right now for not believing (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148)
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you didn't answer me, thir
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Ah, sorry, Wouter, I should've been more clear. Jesus did sacrifice Himself. God sent Him and He sacrificed Himself. So, yes, it means a whole lot.
we can prove that things existed much prior to ~6000 years ago
How and what? Could you expound? The age of the earth is not a huge big deal (I don't know if it's 6,000 exactly, I'm just saying it's not billions of years old). 4.5 billion years is not at all a reliable mark for the age of the earth, and I have no idea why you think it is.
I won't get into that Carlin monologue in depth, I'd just like to say the cause of all the suffering and bad things in the world is sin. God doesn't fix it all immediately because God does not regulate his people like robots; God lets us choose what we want.
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I'd like to think of Jesus and God as a "what have you done for me lately" type of deal, and frankly, I can't answer that! What would be so damn hard about God proving he existed by raising the Titanic and restoring it to it's previous state in 1912, then sinking it again to show he makes the rules? Why can't I talk to Jesus in my dreams to at least get a 2 way conversation going, instead of a one way voicemail type deal and hoping for a response?
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These arguments are funny, and worthless. I have so much to say, but really shouldn't.
Ah what the heck...
the 4.5 billion estimate is just that, an ESTIMATE. It is not reliable, in fact I can tell you with 100% certainty that it is wrong. However the range around it, probably a few hundred million years in each direction, increases a scientists confidence interval to near certainty. Not certainty, nobody knows, but pretty darn near certainty. Scientifically. Mathematically. Just like the science and math that makes the rest of our world go round.
The only explanation for how everything seems "designed" is mere coincidence combined with adaptation. The world works the way it does because it is shaped that way. We exist by chance, and with the seemingly infinite size of the universe, the odds of a place so hospitible to our type of life existing and becoming as "perfect" as our world existing is very high. So high in fact, that from an outsiders point of view, they are not suprised we exist the way we do. But from a closed minded, earth centered perspective (oops, the sun is the middle.. oops, no its not!), of course things seem too perfect and created to be possible. Look outside the box, the universe is *very* *very* *very* big, and has been around for a *very* ok etc., long time.
Of course, that is one explanation. God is another, and in the context of religion, probably fits even more perfectly as it explains everything in its entirety (or atleast I assume so, as my knowledge of religion is very limited!)
I have one other thing to say, along the lines of "science is a religion." I believe that statement. Anybody who believes the earth is 4.5 billion years old is also following in blind faith. None of us have proven this ourselves, or even understand the processes that come to this conclusion. However, I think the CREDIBILITY of the scientists, how well they have done everything else in this world, helps our faith and belief in that statement, just like our belief that hydrogen has an atomic weight of.. whatever the heck. We all take things for granted, I just feel that to follow science blindly is not something you can fault somebody for. There is no conspiracy to lie about the age of the earth, and there is no freaking way that its possible the scientific conclusions are far from the truth. Yes, they are wrong, but mistakes are corrected, and usually not far from the truth.
Hmm, oh well, was going to stay out of this. Let me just say I respect any viewpoint of religion, and I understand the meaning of having a god in your life and the importance of that to some people.
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Jesus did sacrifice Himself. God sent Him and He sacrificed Himself. So, yes, it means a whole lot.
then why aren't you worshipping Jesus? (basically same question as before)
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Because God sent Jesus. Without God, Jesus would never have come and done what he did. Jesus is the representation on Earth of God anyways so it's like we're worshipping him too. I'm sure Tyler can be more concise on this.
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wow, never knew we had a bible basher in the elite...
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Then why aren't you worshipping Jesus?
Ooh, now you're touching on the doctrine of the Trinity, that God is three persons in one essence. Christians believe that God exists as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This does not mean that there are three Gods, it simply means that there are three parts to one God, like there are three parts to one apple (skin, flesh, core). This is supported by the fact that when God created the world, He said, "Let us make man in OUR image." (Genesis 1:27, I think. 26-28, one of those three) The fact that it's still just one God is supported by verses like "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30) So when we're worshipping God, we're worshipping Jesus, because Jesus is God. I could go into more detail, but basically, Jesus is God, but God isn't entirely Jesus.
The world works the way it does because it is shaped that way.
So basically, I interpret this as "it was created," and you interpret it as "the universe is enormous, with tons and tons of galaxies and planets, and one planet happened to work out to where it could perfectly support life." That's...reasonable, I suppose. But the order of the world still implies design. Intentional, purposed design.
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so Jesus died, but if all 3 are the same, then also God died (and HS). so He doesn't exist, only in your mind/heart.
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you're not understanding what he said Wouter
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perhaps, could be the reason why I don't believe like he does. everyone has his own view on things, but we should stop here, cuz I don't want weak minds to get brainwashed from reading this topic (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148)
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Haha. I see where you're coming from, Wouter, and it does make sense.
However, this is different, because Jesus became a man. He was incarnated and, for a time, veiled His deific attributes and walked the earth as a man, just like you and me. In this way, He was distanced from the Father and the Holy Spirit for 30+ years. Then He died, rose again, went back to heaven, and was kind of reunited with the Father and Holy Spirit. God can't die, so Jesus became a man, lived a sinless life, died to take the blame for the sins of the world, and then His Godhood gave Him power to rise from the physical dead, and fully become God and no longer man.
And, yeah, this stuff is tough to understand if you don't believe it. The Bible says that, that the Holy Spirit gives believers discernment in regards to Biblical teachings and historical accounts.
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I think it's quite retard to write God, He or whatever with capital letters.
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I think it's quite retarded to use a noun where there should be an adjective.
Just kidding, man. I do that as a formality...just basically giving as much textual respect to God as I can. Some people won't even write God, they'll write G-d 'cause they revere His name.
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That's quite Gay.
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More like G-y MIRITE? (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6)
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YEAH THAT'S RIG-T!
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bible lol.
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I giggle at the fact that people, including me, use "Jesus Christ" to express profanity, pain, and suffering. I also use "god damnit" in a plethora of sentences in a day. Can you answer as to why my grandpa, who lived one of the greatest, most righteous lives God could ask for, got diagnosed with alzheimers at age 55 and died at age 67? (RIP Jim Barrett 9/24/2006 (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6))
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G-d instead of God in scripture is a Jewish tradition. It's done as writing God on a page means that it can be defiled, or something like that.
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^ Yes, exactly.
Jimbo, the sad thing (and please don't take offense to this) is that your grandpa quite simply got what he deserved.
The Bible says that all have sinned, and consequently, fall short of the glory of God. The wages of sin is death. God is holy and cannot let anything unholy (i.e. sin) into His presence; in fact, any sin that is committed, by His law, should be punished. Human beings, by nature, are sinful and deserve a miserable life of suffering followed by facing the wrath of God for all eternity in hell, experiencing pain and suffering beyond anyone's imagining. No one (including your grandpa) can live a good enough life to satisfy God on the basis of their good deeds alone.
The question most often asked thereafter is this: "Okay, but why did it happen to my grandpa instead of all these other people who are living horrible lives?" Well...I don't know, exactly. I do know that everyone alive is in desperate need of God, and He has to remind us of it sometimes. Even the person living the most righteous life will still sin every now and then, and everyone who sins needs God to save them. His free gift is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. We get eternal life and our sin paid for by the sacrifice of Christ, who lived a perfect, sinless life and died on the cross to take the blame for our sins, so that we can be made holy in the sight of God and enter heaven.
So when a really nice guy (though I didn't know him, he sounds like he was) like your grandpa gets a terrible disease like Alzheimer's, the response God hopes we give is, "Wow. I guess even the best person alive today can't do it on his own. I guess we all need Jesus's sacrifice, no matter how good of a life we live." Then, ideally, we go running to Him to save us.
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"So when a really nice guy (though I didn't know him, he sounds like he was) like your grandpa gets a terrible disease like Alzheimer's, the response God hopes we give is, "Wow. I guess even the best person alive today can't do it on his own. I guess we all need Jesus's sacrifice, no matter how good of a life we live." Then, ideally, we go running to Him to save us."
Ffs.
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Do newborn babies deserve to die? What sins have they committed. and FWIW I'm not in desperate need of god (small g because he's not real) in my life at all :s - Mark
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I believe (though I'm not sure) newborn babies were born through sex which is a sin, and thus they have sinned. Being born is a sin.
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I don't take offense at all, you're the only one who took that response seriously, but I still find it total horse shit that that could be what kind of response God would give.
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If God accepts sinners after they've died, then why does it matter how many sins we've committed while on Earth? What if we attempt to not sin but still do? As you said, everybody sins, but where do you draw the line?
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the line is drawn with the will to not sin.
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Thiradell, did I fail to mention my Grandpa was THE model Christian of our family? Seems slightly unfair, and it definitely ruined any shot Jesus has at winning the entire Barrett family over.
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So Carathorn, what is a willful sin? Example: I run everyday. When I'm done, I am very tired and tend to get quite lazy. If I decide not to willfully not clean my room, is that a sin of Sloth? What if I'm working on wall street and I buy low, sell high? Is that Greed? What if I punched your mother in the face and you got angry (Wrath)?
At what point is the line drawn from something that's acceptable to something that's unacceptable?
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willfully not cleaning your room is not a sin.
working on wallstreet is just work. working for your money to feed your childeren and wife.
If I got angry than its no good. I believe the bible sais something like "dont answer aggression with aggression".
The difference between acceptable and unacceptable. Its personal. What you think about acceptable is personal, and could betotally different then what I think is acceptable. therefor, the line is drawn by the will NOT to sin. that way it adapts a bit to your personal opinion about what is acceptable and not.
At least thats what I think.
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Which is what I was getting at. I believe that all things should be done in moderation. This could be drinking, it could be practicing religion, hell it could be anything (exercising, working, playing chess, using your cell phone). When you do something in excess, it tends to dampen the other things in your life. In some cases, it could even make you oblivious to other parts of your life. If you work too much, you're going to have a hard time spending time with your family, or girlfriend, or even finding a girlfriend. So what is too much? Well, that's hard to see by yourself in a lot of cases. For example, it's easy to the father that comes home at 9pm every night and think to yourself, "He's working too much." But who knows what his thought process is? Does this mean that a father shouldn't work as much as he needs to support his family? No, but it does mean that he's probably not living the good life.
Does this mean you have to come up with all these excesses on your own? Well, no. I believe that religion does that for you (to an extent). They often times tell you what you should or shouldn't do, however, they also guide most people down a successful lifestyle. Does that make everything religion says right? I don't think so, but it does give you an option for how to live your life.
The reason I'm not religious, though, is because I have a hard time believing that the world was spawned by some higher power 6000 years ago. I don't think I know how it was made because in my opinion it seems just as likely that some almighty power created the world billions of years ago than the big bang theory (I do, however, think it was created billions of years ago.).
Anyway, to shorten my belief, I think the bible is a good guide to take loosely but never literally. I don't think you should worship the things in them, although it's probably a good pathway to how one could live a good life.
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"At what point is the line drawn from something that's acceptable to something that's unacceptable?".
That's the main point of the bible discussion. God is a creation of the human being, therefore the bible was written by human beings and other human beings started to believe it. Can you proove that bible wasn't created by a bunch of crazy wackos who smoked marijuana all day and had some crazy talks? MotoX just said it all. To those who believe (even though I think it's bullshit but I respect it anyway), understanding the bible as a "guide" to your life, yeah, it makes sense if you're a god believer, but there are so many retarded things written there that people follow literally. Those have just weak heads for me, honestly.
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What retarded things, Vitor? Could you name a few? The Bible says that all Scripture is breathed out by God; basically that God communicated with humans, who wrote down His words.
You could say newborn babies do deserve to go to hell because they are born with a sinful nature. They inherit an inborn evilness and as such, yes, are sinful. But some people believe God lets the babies and children too young to think about things like these into heaven. I'm not sure about that. Sex is not a sin, sex outside of marriage is. Moto, God forgives us of our sins. Everyone will sin, Jesus' sacrifice pays for that, takes the blame. I still think a higher being creating the world is the most scientifically satisfactory explanation.
Jimbo...I'm sorry, man. I don't know why God killed your grandpa, except for what I already said. Just imagine someone committing tons and tons of wrongdoings against you. God's response to that, despite all our sins against Him, was to send His Son to die for us. Justice would be to kill us all right now. I think that's what I would want to do if I was in that position. And then God kills one person, for reasons unknown to me or anyone. But He's still showering tons and tons of mercy upon the rest of us still alive. I realize that sounds like a bunch of bologna, but...that's what I believe. I'll pray for you, man.
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"You could say newborn babies do deserve to go to hell because they are born with a sinful nature. They inherit an inborn evilness and as such, yes, are sinful."
Dude, life (aka, society) changes people. You just can't tell a child has a sinful nature because he/she hasn't been into anything through life. A child can like kill another child with like 5 years old, but then can do something later that changes world to something good. THAT's just a retarded argument dude, sorry. No one is born with evil, that's bullshit.
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"No one is born with evil, that's bullshit."
In fact, Red Bull, also known as me, is an exception to the rule!
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OMG!11
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Then why do children who are two or three years old exhibit the same kinds of selfishness and sinful tendencies that teens/adults/whoever else exhibit? Before being through anything in life, their tendencies are bad. Just think of like genes and inherited traits through families and stuff like that. Some people are white, some people are black, some people are tall, some people are short...all people are evil. Your father and mother are both inherently evil, and that is passed on. Who are you (good/bad) is not defined by what you do, it's defined by whether or not you've been saved by Jesus Christ.
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YOU IZ MORON!!!!!!!
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If god loves us so much then why did he create us to be inherently evil? My belief on that is just that the things which you think are sins aren't sins. Selfishness isn't necessarily a sin. In my opinion it's Darwinism at its best. It's everyone looking out for themselves before giving to others. A homeless man isn't going to give his spare change to another homeless man. Does that make him selfish? I don't think so, but essentially that's what is behind "greed." Don't get me wrong here though; I do think selfishness past a certain point is bad, however that just takes me back to doing everything in moderation.
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If god loves us so much then why did he create us to be inherently evil?
He didn't. Adam and Eve sinned and allowed evil to come in. He created us to be good, they chose bad, basically. And don't say, "Well, why didn't He make them choose good?" God loves us and wants us to truly love Him, and we couldn't if He regulated our actions and made us good robots.
And, yeah, I see what you're saying about sin. The overriding principle in regards to your relations to others with selfishness and such is to love your neighbor as yourself. So, yes, you can certainly keep money for yourself. But if you see a fellow man struggling, just ask yourself what you would want them to do if they were in your shoes, if the roles were reversed. The Golden Rule, pretty much. And it's certainly not a black-and-white thing laid out for us in every decision we make, but in a relationship with God, He helps us, giving us guide and direction for the decisions we make.
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So what do you have to say about free will? God apparently knows when each of us is born, and when each of us is going to die. (aka he knows abortions?) If God is omniscient, then why did he continually send prophets in the old testament to try to change the ways of the people knowing they wouldn't change? What's the point of having free will if God knows our decisions beforehand?
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god is for weak people who need a book to lead their lives.
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No offense, Jimbo, but obviously Grandpa Barrett was an evil, evil man (perhaps Satan himself), putting up a front of being a model Christian.
I mean, obviously a book based on the words of powerful (and wealthy) men, written to protect their best interests, and passed under the guise as being the word of someone who doesn't exist couldn't be fictional, right? And certainly, someone who didn't know Grandpa Barrett (such as Thiradell) is allowed to judge Grandpa Barrett, despite his so-called Bible telling him to judge not lest ye be judged (amazing how every goddamned Christian forgets that part of it all, eh? It's like a regular pick-and-choose buffet ofmorality, don't like gays? The Bible forbids homosexuality! The Bible also forbids eating pork, but pork is tasty, so we'll pretend that one is "outdated" in order to validate our retardedness!).
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Thiradell, besides my previous post's questions, I want you to answer one thing for me that no one ever could when I was in youth group: what's the interpretation on the natural act of masturbating?
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One big problem is that most people just simply have a bogus view of who God is
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Blueline, I wasn't judging. Judging is telling someone they're doing crappy because they can't stop having sex, or lying, or stealing, or whatever. Or maybe telling someone whether or not they're a Christian. I do know that EVERYONE deserves eternal suffering in hell, so that wasn't a judgmental statement, it was a declaration of what I believe to be a fact that applies to 100% of people. The Bible does not forbid eating pork, those were the pre-Messiah days. Jesus' blood has set us free from the laws of sin and death and as such whether or not we can eat meat is different now.
Jimbo, oh boy, sovereignty and the free will of man. I don't have an answer for you there. You could certainly present it as a contradiction that God is totally sovereign and yet man is free to choose stuff. And in response to that, all I can say is that God is God, I am not, and I don't know everything (in fact, in contrast to His knowledge, I know virtually nothing) He knows. The Bible talks about the hidden knowledge of God and how inscrutable and unsearchable He and His ways are. One of the most...I suppose...confusing verses in the Bible is: "Be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure." I don't understand how I can make sure a sovereign God elected me, but that's what it tells me to do, and in my limited understanding, I obey and try to live for God.
In regards to the masturbation question, I would say that that would be viewed as impure and immoral. I don't think anyone can claim that it's just a neutral, natural act; just the fact that you felt the need to qualify it with the word "natural" makes me think you may be stifling something inside you that says it's unnatural or immoral. It also tells me you have a preconceived notion that there's nothing wrong with it, as opposed to if you had omitted the word "natural," it would've indicated a neutrality and an unbiased desire to learn and be persuaded to one side or the other based on rationalization and teaching. I could be blowing that out of proportion, but the word "natural" implies you already don't think there's anything wrong with it. I don't think it's right (although I must admit I do it more often then I'd like, something I am trying to work on). There is nothing in the Bible that explicity prohibits that exact act, but the Bible does say to put away youthful lusts and that your body is a temple of God and you should treat it with reverence. Doing something like that is giving in to your lusts and sexual desire. Sexual desire in and of itself is not a bad thing at all, but the proper fulfillment of that desire is with a wife. That is the only context in which the Bible treats sexual acts as good (and in that case, it is very, very good, but not otherwise). So...that's what I would say. You could hear different opinions from different people, and it's certainly not an issue that has one fixed interpretation that everyone agrees with. But that's how I see it.
Red Bull, yes sir, I am weak. Incredibly weak. I NEED a living God who leads us with His living Word to lead me.
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I guess I just wanted to make the point that even religion has to acknowledge some part of evolution just from the standpoint that if two people started the human race--how does everyone now look so different?
(of course if you look at fossils from earlier men that we've found they have differences from us too--but everyone wants the half man half monkey dude and if that thing existed (b/c even evolution can have quite vast jumps from one thing to another) it decomposed long long time ago)
the bible is just whatever the "religious leaders" allowed into it--there are quite a few from others that aren't put in there due to usually selfish reasons] [and there were many different religions (and even ag/at even back in that era!*)]
Also, I'm proud of you guys who were raised catholic and are no longer. Most of their policies make no (and I mean none) sense. They don't even read the bible (the church tells them all what to think--it's almost a cult) which you'd think would be oh I dunno say a prerequisite for that whole heaven thing they think they're getting into.
One of my favs is that whole no eating meat on fridays--which the only logical explanation I can come up with for this is that the fish industry paid them to do this.
(I mean what if you were at your local ballpark on friday but you forgot it was friday when you ordered that hot dog--but remembered mid dog. Eating the rest of the dog is a sin b/c you know it's friday but you can't just throw it away--that's a sin too--what the hell do you do to keep yourself from burning in hell?) [not to mention that whole giving more money to the church=better standing--like jesus would give a shit lol]
* so many people make such silly arguments for anything but my fav is usually religion just because of how frequent the argument is "god did it" (and how stupid the "leaders" really are**).
**Actually this pretty much goes for anything--sports, politics, religion--all [censored] morons really. What always makes me laugh is how they purposely (it seems) hire the dumbest guy possible.
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So, you believe it's a fact everyone goes to hell. Someone else doesn't. Why not live and let live? WE'll never know who is right, so it's all a stupid argument anyway. If you want to burn in hell, fine. If Joe Schmo is aiming for Heaven, fine. If Suzie Creamcheese decides there is nothing beyond life, fine. I guess what I don't get is why anyone forces their beliefs on others.
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Why don't we talk about True Religion jeans instead?
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I do not belong to any actual religion (http://perfectdarkelite.yuku.com?topic=13445), I just live everyday with best efforts to stay alive, trying to enjoy what I can, which sometimes means making the best of a terrible situation. I do believe that there has to be something that started it all, and I do not think it was a actual living thing that has physical limitations, something that is there but not in a physical state, which gives the term "god" or "godly". that is all I can really say cause who wants to argue opinions and views. I doubt people are born evil, even today. I know there alot of mean and screwed up people, but ones like me would never even think of hurting or deceiving someone.
I really do not think there is nothing wrong with my approach, to me it just feels right. I do believe there is a form of after life punishment, because it would be wrong for people to do anything bad they want to anyone or anything just for fun, but I do not think it is something eternal, once your time is up it is over. I mean, NO ONE deserves extreme suffering ETERNALLY no matter what they did, maybe for a long time, but.. man... theres just no way that it would go on FOREVER..
The only aim I have is....... enjoy your life the best you can (that is what you are supposed to do!) be good and fair to all others around you, (person or animal!) and when you die you will be at forever lasting peace with no more worries or pain you would go through being alive. if that is how it goes for me, I would be perfectly happy with it, cause how could you not? and maybe, at some point or another, you get reborn.
to what someone said much earlier in the topic(i forgot who) it IS fascinating to just think about life in general, sometimes I think about how amazing it is how everything works, all the cycles like life and death and how every animals actions effect other animals, and how imperfect your body is, yet at the same time it is perfectly well made and lets you do want you want. I also wonder and come up with tons of theories about what happens when you die.. it is just really cool to think about sometimes. one of my favorite things I have come up with is, if there is an afterlife, maybe YOU create it all by yourself. by that I mean.. whatever your beliefs of life after death are while you are alive, is what happens to you when you die. is that true? who knows.... all I know is, if the meaning of life, or what happens after you die is ever factually found out, it would plain out suck, I mean isn't thinking and wondering about it your whole life a million times better than just...... knowing? maybe not for everybody I guess.. but for me, and depending on how you think of things you may feel finding out just ruins the point of your existence. I kinda do, but not completely, just in the fact that it is really cool to think and wonder about sometimes and how cool it is that you will never *KNOW*
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Blueline, I'm sorry if you felt I forced my beliefs on you. I was just trying to defend what I believe, and I may have stated some of the stuff I was saying like it was fact (which of course I believe it is). But I don't want to say, "Believe this or die, punk!" You choose what you want to believe, absolutely.
wheatrich, yes, humans have evolved. Absolutely. But herein we're talking about microevolution. That is, change within species. Sapiens. What I deny on the grounds that it has not been scientifically proven at all is macroevolution. That is, change outside of species; genus, family, and so on up to kingdom. Other things evolutionists believe that I don't include cosmic evolution (evolution of the stars and galaxies) and chemical evolution (evolution of the elements). But, as far as within species, yes, absolutely. That's how humans can look so different nowadays. But they're still humans. I do agree that Catholicism is quite silly in regards to a number of things, particularly that Mary mediates in prayer and stuff like that between God and man, which has no Scriptural basis at all.
ParaGod...hmm. Interesting. Evilness goes beyond hurting and deceiving, it goes to basic selfishness and little white lies and stuff like that. And just one question: Why do you think so many people are mean and screwed up? How did they get that way? I believe, quite simply, that I can know what is going to happen to me when I die, based on the ridiculous amount of archaeological evidence supporting the validity of the Bible, my personal relationship with God which results in the Holy Spirit revealing truth to me, and the fact that every other religion seems to have several things wrong with it. I just encourage you to examine everything from an unbiased standpoint and see what makes the most sense.
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yeah but, no but, yeah but..............my Bible says so!
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It is always difficult to really know what's after death. I don't believe in a god, or in something higher up which made the earth and the species on earth. I think when you die you just die, your body will get burned or in the ground, and then the remains will be used for new life, because the things in your body are going to eat it, and then the circle will start again. I hope there is something after death, but i don't think there is something.
I just hope that no one just hear a theory and don't think about it themselves. You must make your own opinion about these kind of subjects.
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well i supoose the religion topic is dead, but for anyone who still cares, afanoftherings, thats a fan of the rings (yep HARD-CORE Lord of the Rings fan here) is an on fire for Christ, non-denominational christian! REPRESENT-CHRIST JESUS! hey i dare anyone to listen the album An Ocean Between Us by As I Lay Dying!!! i dare you!!!! and then tell me what you think about the Holy Spirit working in THAT!!! WOW!!!
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pretty much i believe as Thiradell does-i am weak...too weak to claim that i can and have made it this far on my own! Jesus has carried me for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time!
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YEEEEEEAH! That's RIIIIIIGHT!
Haha. Good to see another Christian, man. Keep the faith!
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hey Thiradell...where do you live? ive been dying to hook up with SOMEONE from the elite to play GE with for the past like 8 years!! There is no one in hawaii (where im at now) or in washington state (where i call home) that has ever challenged me!! are you any good at multi-player? what church do you go to? funny thing about meeting in the elite chat is that i REALLY doubt God is overly-happy with amount of time weve put into this danged addictive game haha (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fgrin.gif&hash=19085c4f82e7c8861cdf5328e4a8c6e590545af2)
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I live in Missouri, so pretty far away from you, it sounds like. I'm pretty good at multi-player, I slaughter anyone I play (except my brothers, but I still beat them most of the time). I go to an evangelical free church.
Yeah, I know, I've thought about how much I've played GoldenEye and whether it's good or not sometimes, but, hey! It's led to me coming here and participating in all these topics and meeting (online, yes, but nevertheless) some cool people.
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yeah-GE is a creative outlet and whether or not i put too much time into it-im sure i do-it does give me something to do with my free time that, in a way, is constructive-of sorts and is somehow challenging and fun, even 9 years later. i guess sometimes i wish i lived in the midwest (it seems that a good number of eliters live in the middle of the country) and id really like to break one off on jim barret-multi player style! na...im just foolin around, though i really would like to play someone who still thought the game was fun and exciting! its hard to find people that wanna bust out the 64 when the xbox 360 and ps3 are so far advanced! we (goldeneye purists) are a dying breed im afraid and thus must suffer this life as lonely sojourners... :/
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Wow, if you two are conduits for Christianity....well, gg Jesus is all I can say
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Good game? I...don't understand...
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Means you 2 don't stand a flippin chance at convincing others to believe in Jesus!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3VAEYEG53w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3VAEYEG53w)
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wow jim-you got some REAL issues with trusting in the Lord! understand there will NEVER be anything ANYONE could SAY to MAKE ANYONE believe...its all a work of the Holy Spirit! for me to completely dismiss the fact that this world is here by intelligent design would not only make me look like a moron, but it would completely deny everything that God has done, not in life in general, but in my life PERSONALLY! if youre not just being defiant and you GENUINELY choose not to believe in God, than i challenge you to sit and watch just one hour of Kent Hovind's creation, evolution and dinosaurs series! if after one hour you have had NO "lightbulbs" turn on, than i guess all that you REALLY need is some serious prayer, which, by-the-way, ive already been doing for you (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f) youre pretty funny and im sure youre not as bad as the elite makes you out to be and im sure that sooner-or-later Christ will somehow take hold of your heart and show you some pretty amazing things-peace brother RANDOM EVOLUTION THOUGHT:
disassemble the parts of a 500.00 wrist watch, put all the pieces in a bag and shake it up until it puts itself back together...this might take a while
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500 dollars? Why not 100 or 1000? You mean something complex. A better word for evolution is adaption. A better word for adaption is change. We've changed to fit our enviornment and should continue to do so. There are still things out of our control.
And did you ignore my link? Some of us want to remove dangerous dogma from our lives and base decisions on as many facts we can find. I'd like to be done with these debates but some people are simply too uncomfortable to admit they're wrong. I know I was wrong about things I use to believe.
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Emerald City?! Sweet! I'm from Washington too! Spokane. Ummmm....the amount really isnt the issue, but ok-the watch can be worth whatever you want it to be...and you're correct, we have changed-and that's VERY obvious. And ACTUALLY, if you look up the word evolution in a dictionary, you'll probably find about 7-8 DIFFERENT meanigs!!! Two of them, macro and micro are briefly discussed here: What exactly is the "observable fact" of evolution? First you should be aware that evolutionists recognize two types of evolution -- micro evolution, which is observable, and macro evolution, which isn't. So called "micro evolution" is a process of limited variation among the individuals of a given species that produces the sort of variety we observe, for example, among dogs. Macro evolution, on the other hand, is a hypothetical process of unlimited variation that evolutionists believe transforms one kind of living organism into a fundamentally different kind such as the transformation of reptiles into birds or apes into people. Obviously, no one has ever observed anything remotely like this actually happen. While i DO believe in micro, i think that macro, or the changing of a rock to person (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332) is painfully funny! Do ONE HOUR of UNBIASED research on the meanings of the word evolution and im pretty confident that youre opinions may change. as for removing DANGEROUS dogma from your life, well, i guess i dont know what you deem as DANGEROUS. may i suggest that removing the fact that we were put here with intention and loving purpose by a Creator with unfathomable wisdom might NOT be the most intelligent decision anyone has ever made-but like so many others along with you, (and not THAT long ago, even myself) there just has to be that special work by the Holy Spirit in your heart before there can be ANY understanding at all. my prayers are for you and those like you that NEED, more than anything in this world, Jesus Christ and His saving love and grace. peace brother...i will check your link when i get home, this comp at my clinic doesnt play youtube vids
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I'm going to try and argue anyway. Despite the fact that you mixed up sentient and non-sentient beings and then tried to link them both into an argument about evolution.
You're both taking a very vertical view of evolution; you seem to believe that evolutionary theory proposes that these changes just 'happened', whereas this is not the case at all. It suggest a very slow, gradual change over many thousands of years through the process of natural selection, where beneficial characteristics are retained. Survival of the fittest, this is called Also, i'm not quite sure what you mean by 'observed' - you haven't defined this term at all. Do you want it in pictures in front of you?
I have a very limited understanding of evolutionary theory, but it's clearly ten times the understanding that you have. You're clearly taking a very uninformed standpoint and not bothering to go any further because it contradicts what's written in the Bible. And thus we reach the main point of contention...
Btw your wristwatch analogy is completely hopeless. I can't even see what kind of comparison you were trying to make.
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FOR REAL-ANYONE WHO REALLY CARES ABOUT THE WHOLE EVOLUTION/CREATION DEBATE SHOULD CHECK OUT KENT HOVIND'S CREATION SCIENCE EVANGELISM, THEY'RE PRETTY THOUGHT-PROVOKING! LIKE I SAID-NO ONE WILL EVER HAVE A CHANGE OF HEART WITHOUT THE WORK OF CHRIST!
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Durk, the purpose of the wristwatch analogy is to show that there is no way anything as perfectly organized and put together as the human body could come together by random occurrence. It's clearly designed, which implies a Designer. When you look at a wristwatch, you assume that someone designed and made that wristwatch with a very specific purpose in mind; the human body is much, more complicated. If there is gradual change from a fish to a human, there should be fossils of the animals in between, right? Well...there aren't. Scientific evidence for macroevolution would be defined as any kind of observation in nature, laboratories, or what have you that proves the process of macroevolution. Physical evidence. Of which there is none.
Please don't tell me I have an uninformed standpoint and am just going with what the Bible said. Kudos to fanoftherings for citing Kent Hovind's videos, which is the best material I've seen on shooting down every aspect of the theory of evolution and easily asserting Christianity as the most scientifically credible theory available. Not sure how you can say you have ten times the understanding we do when you don't even know what observable science is. The theory of evolution does just what you accuse fanoftherings of wrongly doing; linking rocks and humans in one evolutionary process. THIS IS WHAT EVOLUTION IS. Life coming from non-life. Survival of the fittest is fine, but it doesn't mean primordial ooze is going to change into a human because a human is more fit. Change is limited to species, as has been scientifically shown time and time again.
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The wrist-watch analogy is not applicable here. In that case you are calculating the chances of a specific event, which im sure is quite small. The chance of any specific event happen is very small, however the chance of any event happening is 1.
I'm not sure why I'm trying to explain this though. If you werent stupid you would have realised this already and not have used that analogy. Like I said before, anyone who tries to explain their belief scientifically is a complete moron.
A belief is not a belief if you think that you know for sure that it is correct. A belief is defined as confidence in the exist of something that is not susceptable to rigorous proof. If, in your own mind, you believe something to be proven, it is no longer a belief in your own mind.
There is much power that comes from believing in something even yourself cannot say exists for real. Or at the very least, understanding that to explain its presence will defy the very point of believing.
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frankly-that makes NO sense to me, but that doesnt really mean much...if what i know to be true (the Bible) is no longer a belief, than what would YOU define it as? not too sure why youre calling me names (dont think ive instigated) but no worries-i know that you dont mean that towards me...with the most sincerity i have ever had, i hope that one day your life will be changed for the magnificently better like mine was a few years ago (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6) John 15:18-If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. Matthew 10:22-And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endues to the end will be saved. peace brother
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I guess it's no surprise that the first few videos I came across described Kent Hovind as a tax evader and a fraud, with a PhD from a non-accredited university in the US, with public access to his doctorate thesis restricted, probably due to the fact that it's garbage.
As a flavour of the kind of person Kent Hovind is, I suggest you watch this video. Gotta love the references to militant Islam in a debate about evolution - a backdoor way of saying 'I'm a fucking retard, I have no real argument".
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tnb_pmRDpqU&feature=related
I could link you to about a million other videos that discredit Hovind's theories, but the fact that you've even named him as some kind of credible anti-evolutionary argument is just completely gobsmacking. I can't really continue to argue in this topic if you honestly think this guy is a reputable source, because it would be pointless for me to do so.
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yeah, i guess he got into some trouble...and its too bad that the media has highlighted nothing but the negative in his life, but i take it you never actually watched the videos that i recommended: his creation, evolution and dinosaurs videos. you can do better than that in your research (i hope), so long as you REALLY want to be informed (unbiasedly) peace brother
oh yeah-whats your name, im just curious as to who in the elite im chatting with?
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Karl: Any event? What? The point of the analogy is to show that the body is more complicated then the watch, and there's no way the watch could've evolved, so there's ABSOLUTELY no way the body could've evolved.
I didn't know that about Hovind. I'd only seen a 7-part series of his, the most of which he spent debunking the evolutionary theory (my personal favorite was his discussion of the Big Bang in relation to the scientific law called the Conservation of Angular Momentum). If you don't want us to cite him as a good source, that's okay, I guess, but I still don't see how you guys don't think creation is the most credible theory. I'm sorry, but I must quote my man Kent:
"Basically, I believe in the beginning, God... And you believe in the beginning, dirt..."
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I don't even believe in a beginning. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6)
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AWESOME!!! and i dont believe in...a...aliens, but i STILL like the x-files!!! yeah, the hovind series, no matter WHAT you believe now, does cause one to laugh at the evolution theory from the learned bible-believing standpoint! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Flaugh.gif&hash=657f1346088ce2081c398c7379c3a47e4cf5861b) hey: heres proving that there is hope for ANYONE...i once believed that when you ate your food, it would all re-assemble in your tummy and form little food-cities, where they socialized, had parties AND held 9-5 jobs! though im not sure what i thought THEY ate! amazing what happens when you listen to your 2nd grade teacher!
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You'd basically need God to play for you if you ever played me in multiplayer, fool! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e) I'd still kick the shit out of the Lord himself!
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fembarassed.gif&hash=5641b47ebaa060c9559e379ec4d9f9bfb35dd661) with a little (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148) dont think ive EVER come across anyone quite like you ol jimbo-haha, thats whats gonna be so glorious when we meet...im gonna hurt your MASSIVE ego! though i must admit-the Lord playing GE is a funny image-especially if He (excuse the irreverance) got as into it as some of us eliters! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332) jimbo-you make everyones day better! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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Bah I don't mean to be a bad guy, I just like screwing with you! I don't have an ego really, I just let the guns do the talking (no pun intended!) Now, I personally would live for Jesus the rest of my life if he came back to Earth and played me in some Bond multiplayer, but he never would, for reasons inexcusable!
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its ALL good (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e) im all about sarcasm and jest-so long as i dont offend anyone or am mean-hearted towards anyone, which is exactly why i love your sense of humor jimbo (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332) and im DEAD serious-youve made my day (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e) keep it up!!!
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I believe in Stevie Wonder.
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OOOOOUUUUUUTTTSTANDING vitor-absolutely brilliant you are! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e) and where might i find that 00 cav strat for like 2:30? heck id be moved with a 3:30 strat. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
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Quiet Bol: Time exists. As such, there had to a beginning of time. It had to start somewhere. Well...yeah, that's what I think. Don't really wanna get into that in-depth, 'cause I'll just end up confused, I'm sure.
I actually wouldn't mind a 2:30-3:30 strat myself. Still working on sub-4:30, which I am close to.
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for real, huh? there's gotta be one somewhere...
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I got 2:50 way back in the day (like late 2001) but have no idea what strat I used (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148)
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I went from 3:20 to 1:58, then to 1:45. Quite insane!
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I went from like 3:20, to 2:40, to 2:04, to 1:52.
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Religion is used to control and sometimes corrupt people. I'm getting tired of being nice about it. What about all those people in the amazon jungles who never heard of your religion or idea in general? Why do they deny it and show they had no prior knowledge? You do things both good and bad legal and illegal probably everyday whether your religious or not. Since humanity 'ISN'T' perfect. Whose to say you even 'know' anything more than the next person? Whether it's religion to violent video games. Maybe those who are relgious are dillusional. It all sounds like the bogerman to me.
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hmmm, the bogerman? in any case...very nice to see the PROGRESS you guys made, but THAT doesnt really help a chap out! i need STRATS! like i say, the WR strat is TOO MUCH right now, so i need a 2:30-3:30 strat! thanks studs!
and i suppose anarchy does the SAME thing, so you CANT blame "religion!" like it or not-we are ALL religious towards something (some of us GE!) "religion" is simply defined as a set of beliefs or actions that one lives for and believes in, and doesnt necessarily have to do with a diety. everyone lives for some reason-otherwise why not just off yourself? really why wouldnt you off yourself? i hope that no one ever does! but its because you believe that there is a reason for your existence! if you didnt-there would be NO consequence (in your religion) to offing yourself! im curious as to why no one would off themselves...let the floodgates open...personally i wouldnt because i have been given so much to live for since Christ got a hold of my heart! whats yalls reasons?
ps-i religiously desire a flippin cavs 00 strat! thanks
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What's the real reason you're the worlds most first awesome eliter?
Some people do 'off' themselves. They commit suicide out of depression or a certain event went wrong in their life. I did mention humanity wasn't perfect.
But some people are also narrow-minded and simply ignore a possible truth in front of them.
And I blame corruption for the cause of problems out of ignorance or lack of education, compassion, empathy, misunderstanding caused by religion or 'any number of things.' Whatever reason, I think everyone is guilty of doing something wrong, even God. Likewise, I praise everyone who does comething right. It's only a matter of 'when' it happens. Where, why, who are also important but this is old news.
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what has GOD done wrong? (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332)
and im not sure why im the worlds first most awesome eliter...probably because im a thorn in everyones side i guess (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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God was wrong for even creating this stupid world.
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I don't want to single out any one god or goddess but even ancient humans thought they understood everything. By giving someone the power to do anything implies they have the ablity to create good and evil.
If god created 'man' and since man kills itself, how is he not responsible for that? Your argument is that it's humanities fault for commiting acts like murder, thievery, and sexual assault. But there's also a line that mentions a flood. Ring a bell?
And just because you say you're sorry doesn't mean you're right again. Feeling bad makes you aware of something wrong you did.
AND we've already mentioned bad things happen to everyone at the same rate.
Some of us here want to destory time. That's like turning off the car for a moment. Why should I try to improve or wreck something that already works? I don't know how well, but I'm glad I'm here for the ride.
Maybe not the greatest analogy but I'm done with this retarded debate. Not everybody ever believed the dogma, contradictions, and lies religion offers. Some people live fine without it, and maybe more people would be better off, but that's up to each of us to decide.
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If there is one thing I am sick and tired of, it's people accusing religion (and by "religion," most people mean "Christianity") of being dogmatic, contradictory, and full of lies. Could we please have a debate where I don't hear how my religion is a bunch of crap just because it is every 10 posts? If you were in a college debate or something, it would get you nowhere to accuse the other side of those things in that way.
Man kills himself because he chose sin. God created man to be good and man was deceived by Satan to do evil. God made the flood happen so as to wipe out the evil people living and start again on a better foot.
1 John 1:9 says: "If we confess our sins (say we're sorry), he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." The context of the passage refers to Christians; non-Christians cannot have a personal relationship with God until they accept Christ's sacrifice and let His blood wash them clean of sin in the sight of God. But for Christians, saying we're sorry (and truly meaning it) means God forgives us and cleanses us, so it does "make us right," in a way.
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LAWL ^
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"non-Christians cannot have a personal relationship with God"
That is completely untrue and slightly offensive.
"If there is one thing I am sick and tired of, it's people accusing religion (and by "religion," most people mean "Christianity") of being dogmatic, contradictory, and full of lies"
This is a standard Christian trope. Whenever Christianity gets attacked, it goes on the complete defensive, accusing others of petulence and irrationality just because they happen to raise the tiniest objection to Christian doctrine. Just saying "OMG that offends me" does not make any objections to Christianity invalid; if anything, it strengthens the case against Christianity, as it shows that as a religion it does not have reason and logic to fall back on.
I could name a million hypocritical church stances, but the most obvious one is the Catholic church's attitude to contraception, which is undoubtedly a mitigating factor (but by no means the sole factor) in the AIDS pandemic in Africa. The church's attitude to homosexuality is another one. I could go on.
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life gets pretty crazy when you put EVERYTHING youve ever heard about EVERY "religion" into a blender and try to make sense of it all!!! one day (i sincerely hope) you will choose to learn that different "religions" have different doctrines. not all of them are the same and, therefore, cannot be (as i think you have done-though i apologize if im wrong) catagorized or opinionated on as the same thing.
have you ever met ghandi? bill clinton? joe montana? (i tried to use names that you might recognize-the names, in themselves, are not THE important factor) anyways-id wager a bet that you have NO personal relationship with ANY of them...am i right? in that case-if one has never encountered or desired to meet the Living God of ALL creation-how can you say that you have a PERSONAL relationship with God?
and i suppose that the day ANYONE can scientifically, physically, or in any OTHER way, disprove Gods existance-i will say that it was all a lie! and trust me-ive looked for disproof! havnt found ANY! the bible can be (easily) proven CORRECT and TRUE: archeologically, scientifically and literally-so i guess, those who CHOOSE to ignore are as peter wrote in his epistle: willingly ignorant! its sad, but when they CHOOSE to see the TRUTH in HIS LIGHT, they WILL be transformed into a new creation! and THAT is the GREATEST news anyone has ever proclaimed!!! He is willing and ready for you, no matter what you think, His love for you will blow your mind away! just as i does mine EVERYDAY!!! the crap i was mixed up in!!! WOW! why, in heaven or on earth, would He love me, despite the things i was doing, have done and STILL do-its AMAZING!
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You're an idiot.
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This is what I mean by narrow-minded. Someone lock this topic, if you want to talk about religion make a new topic on it and talk only about it. Since your bias enough to defend a lie there's no point in debating with you.
At least some people admit when they do wrong while others in the world don't consider that possiblity.
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hope the best for both you and karl
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I do wrong all the time, Max. I'm forgiven for it.
Durk, that was the first time in 200 posts I said anything like that despite the fact Christianity has been pretty consistently bombarded through this whole debate without many specific reasons given for the bombardment. I am not a Catholic, I am a Christian. And, yes, there are heretical Christians that say things like homosexuality is okay. According to the Bible, it isn't. The Bible never says it's okay at all, it always condemns it. (Romans 1...22-23, I think) The Bible also says that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life and that no one comes to the Father but through Him. (John 14:6) Without being cleansed by the blood of Jesus and accepting His sacrifice for your sins (i.e. becoming a Christian), God will not have a personal relationship with you because He still sees, unpaid for, the sin that you have committed, and He hates it and cannot allow it into His holy presence.
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I was thinking about this!
Please explain something which is not clear to me (no offense btw, just wanna know how religious ppl see this)
This earth was once inhabited by not men, but dinosaurs and other ugly creatures. I mean, bones and stuff have been found, so yeah they were there. Scientists also proved that this earth is around 4.5 billion years old, and humans have only been here for the last 200.000 years
So what I don't get...is how can God create a planet for humans to live on, while only 0.0044% of the time we actually were on it?
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Because he's god, duh, are you like stupid or something?
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Now that you're beginning to admit you're wrong. Can you take it a little further. This is only 'just' starting. The idea that some things were made up to control people. If you're idea is so good, why doesn't everyone believe in it? Were these people with 'no' prior knowledge meant to be unaware of another certain idea?
The reason because I don't want to debate is your statements are vauge. I can back up my data with irrefutable evidence. Your idea is flawed in a sense because some things obsolete ideas claimed were 'never' true. I could also go as far to say is you're covering a lie. Wake up and face reality. Nobody lost my keys for me, nor do they always help me make all my life decisons. I simply have better ways of using my brain than to believe lies and dogma.
I don't know the exact dimensions but I'm pretty sure life couldn't be sustained on a flat world nor would the sunlight hit us properly. All we ask is religion to not make claims that turned out to be complete lies.
Sorry to sound generalistic myself but I would like to travel to jungles and meet tribes with paint all over them. I'm sure by now they've even heard of stuff like cars and computers anymore than your 'idea'.
Don't blame someone imagined for your mistakes. Don't make excuses. You know how Karma works. Maybe you deserved that toothache for eating too much ice cream. It was your own fault.
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hey Karl...U continue to be a d*ck or what?
Oh man... I love people who havent touched PD or GE in years but stayed here nevertheless, b*tching at other people.
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wow, maybe you should buy a new sarcasm detector.
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I have a farcasm detector, it's working great!
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Cara: Could you please provide some evidence that the world is 4.5 billion years old? I don't believe that at all. Dinosaurs were wiped out by the Flood. Humans have inhabited the earth since the sixth day of time.
Max: God lets us choose what we want to believe, and some people choose not to believe Christianity. There are missionaries all over the world trying to spread the Gospel to the unreached peoples you've mentioned. That's one of the things Jesus prays for, is laborers for the harvest, which basically means that there need to be more people to go around and cultivate Christians by sharing the message of Jesus Christ. The main responsibility of Christians is to go into the world and make disciples of all nations. That's our responsibility, and all the missionaries all over the world strive to do just that. Granted, there will be some people who will never hear the Gospel, but the best thing to do is to try and change that.
I'm not blaming anyone for my mistakes. I make mistakes all the fricking time, and they are my fault. I did it. I am FORGIVEN by Jesus Christ. He took the blame for my sins, paid the penalty, and allows me to have a relationship with God. And this is precisely why I love Him so much! This is precisely why I want to serve Him and praise Him with my life, because I've sinned so much, and He took it all away because He loves me so much! While I was still a sinner, a worthless wretch in the sight of God, Jesus died for me.
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Hey Tyler, you know I like religion and have faith and all like you, but if the dinosaurs were wiped out in the flood, then why weren't they addressed in the bible either because Noah took 2 on his ark with him, or because they chose to leave dinosaurs in the flood? Either way there should be some mention of dinosaurs in the bible.
Also something I've always wanted to know is if Adam and Eve were the first two, then how come Noah and his wife were the only chosen ones to live through the flood? Was Noah a descendant of Adam? Where does Jesus come along in all of this? I thought Jesus was 42 generations after Adam...something like that many in the very first chapter of Mark in the new testament if I remember correctly. If all people died except Noah then... well I'm just really confused. Can you clear this up?
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why werent dinosaurs mentioned? i believe they were, but its not THAT relevent (unless youre a evolutionist-making up fables based on NO proof!) the great fire-breathing leviathon mentioned in in the book of Job and, i believe, throughout the Psalms (not 100% on the Psalms though.) im so happy that people are finally asking intelligent questions...this is GREAT!!! wht werent komodo dragons or crocodiles or great white sharks mentioned? there are a whole slew of animals that still walk (or swim) around today that arent mentioned either. and, again, if anyone decides to watch the Creation, Evolution and Dinosaurs video seminar by kent hovind (they are EXTREMELY fascinating!!!), you might find A LOT of your questions about THIS topic (dino's, evolution, etc...) thoroughly answered!!! it will be great fun for anyone who watches these!!! your view of the whole subject WILL be cahnged...have fun yall!
if anyone wants a copy, i will personally send you them (he doesnt copyright his materials and says that its COMPLETELY ok to copy and spread his stuff!!) send me an address at afanoftherings@yahoo.com
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I can't believe you have the nerve to say that evolutionists create fables, and then you go and quote Hovind as a reliable source. You're beyond help.
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Carathorn: You're a faggot.
And yeah, I've stayed here for the past few years, going nowhere else.
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I kind of agree with durk and all the non religious people in a lot of these arguments. Even though I am a follower of Christ and I have faith in God I still think a lot of things like the age of the earth and evolution need to be looked at with an open mind. I think it's foolish to completely ignore what science has presented to us today, but also that it is arrogant and ignorant not to respect the reasoning behind these things in religion. What's even worse is telling someone from the other side that they are wrong which is basically what causes all the arguments and ultimately wars in the world. Everyone needs to have an open mind and let others believe what they want to. Sure missionaries can go around spreading the word of God but ultimately if the person doesn't want to believe it, then let them be. In either case, if you view the other kind of person (religious or scientist) as being "stupid" or something of the like for their beliefs then let them be. It's in YOUR advantage if they are worse off than you isn't it?
Karl posted as I was typing. All I really have to say is that I've talked to Karl and Carathon about an equal amount about life and stuff like that. From what I gather Carathorn seems to be a more successful, happy, free person than Karl and ultimately better. Of course it doesn't matter to either if both of them believe their lives are fulfilled or on the track to do so, but I do think Carathorn is much more amicable and inspiring.
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Carathorn: You're a faggot.
And yeah, I've stayed here for the past few years, going nowhere else.
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(Goose)-IF there is an ABSOLUTE TRUTH "out there" somewhere-than one side IS wrong in what they believe! evolution is a religion-as is christianity-both are BELIEVED to be true by certain people-they teach CLEARLY different doctrines-they cannot therefore BOTH be correct! i encourage you brother to find out with a deeper sincerity what EXACTLY you believe in. you seem to believe in a bit of both evolution and christianity (kudos for having an open mind though) go after both of them and see for yourself which one looks like a story project made up by 1st grader and which one has no DIS-proveability and is (that is EVERYTHING about it-physically, archeologically and simply adding up the dates given) 100% possible, probable and likely.
(no longer directed at Goose)-hating one WITHOUT actually learning from the facts YOURSELF is pitiful! i dont hate evolution JUST because Christ saved my life-but because when compare evolutions "alleged-but LONG since disproven-"facts," with creations certainties, its funny!!! BUT-as i said-one must do this search on ones own. seek the education you desire-and you WILL find it!!! so long as youre looking for the ACTUAL TRUTH-not what you WANT to be the truth.
as for karls "response" to carathorn...i feel sorry for you karl-but ive been praying for you...and i dig your music brother! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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So yes, Karl, U continue to act weird. Im just asking a question and all you say is that "im like stupid."
The very next post you make you call me a faggot....
I don't care if you stayed here for the past few years, but b*tching at me for no reason seems to me like its way out of proportions.
But if you want things to go this way: then fine, but dont expect the ball to roll back at ya.
Your guitar playing sucks, you cant write songs and you will never make any money out of it since it is far from original and boring. You're a bad producer because you use cheap ass sounds that are clearly ripped from the first library you ever found on the internet.
So you call me a faggot? Then I call you what I just did. Its easy.
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oh see Hugo, Karl does not care if he will never become rich and famous from his work because he is all of happy, successful and free!! His life is completely fulfilled and as long as he keeps this up then he will live an amazing life! In fact he probably thinks you are low on self esteem because you insulted him like that! Karl is everyone's hero! He is as close to God as humanly possible!!!!
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heh... (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332)
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If it was your intention to hurt my feelings guys... congratulations, you did well.
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Nice! I'm really glad that I succeeded at making you feel bad. This really gives me a lot of confidence in knowing that I can make the right decisions.
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See didn't I tell ya this was going to happen. More mistakes and misunderstandings again.
I recently posted this so I'll do it here too.
"All this talk would confuse the average person so I'll keep it simple.
I have an idea, you have an idea and that doesn't mean we always see eye to eye. If your idea were absolute and perfect there would be 'no' debate to begin with.
The fact that you have to defend your belief, whatever it is, is proof that doubt can be place upon it possibly rendering it invalid.
Language is the problem because religion and theory are less exact than something like math imo. "
Lets up the stakes and go to a court of law. This is only an MB so you can say almost whatever you want. Lets go to court where you can face my DNA evidence rendering your idea invalid. Would you be willing to make the same statements under oath in front of a court room rather than a message board you can come to any time you can?
Ok then, I'll drop the stakes and ask the million dollar question? Why are you here and where did you come from? If you knew that for absolute certainty you wouldn't 'need' to debate. The fact you have to defend your beliefs shows that you are unsure of yourself and that someone else might be right. "YOU" are not the only one in the world with an idea Mr. X or Ms. Y.
You might believe deep down that another human is right.
Furthermore, you can't prove something is right. Science doesn't prove what's right, it disproves it. As technology improves to this day we have more knowledge of the universe and ourselves than we ever did before. People have been dillusional since the beginning of time both 'religious' and 'scientific' but again mathematics clearly is very exact but I think it has its flaws.
But I want to get away from this topic because I think I've made a point. That's up to you, but it does me no good to be in here when you ignore my posts and not take them seriously in this real debate forum. Can't remember if the-elite has an age policy.
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i KNOW that God is right-He always has been and always will be (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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And I'll simply remind of a possible age policy, but I guess it's tolerable. I haven't been so grown up either.
Edit-Here I don't confirm or deny some statements. I only doubt his existence, I shouldn't disregard it. We ask people not to speak on others behalf without their permission. Even if they are all powerful. And especially when it's open to interpretation. But there are some things for certain we can say did or didn't happen.
Even if I were to take the other side of the argument, I don't know why god and the devil have been fighting all this time? You'd think by now these prophets, gods, goddess, demons and devils would work things out to set a good example. They don't mean much if the people they need to believe in them are dead or forever confused by a holy non-stopping ridiculous war.
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fohwell.gif&hash=bb0d6706659211344c8b0105d84285ae23571845)
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people like afanoftherings is the reason why the rest of the world thinks badly of USA
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Uh, religion. I think it's all a matter of where you're born and what stories your parents and everyone else around decide to tell you. Why is it so, that there's gotta be a purpose in life? I think we're all too dumb to understand anything of the big picture, if there even is one. It's in our nature to question things, though, it's a very foolish thing to say that we know what the hell is going on, really. We can only discuss and most likely, we won't ever agree, because every human being is so different.
If I, instead of Sweden, was born in India or had moved there, I'd probably be a buddhist or something. You can only be right, when you say that you really don't have clue why we're here, and what our purpose is. Though, I don't know, and can't really say something like that either. Maybe there's people in the world who've been in touch with the almighty "God" and know for certain, "for real". But that makes it very hard for us "normal" folks to understand it, without asking just how and why and demand a good explanation.
"Just have faith" won't due for someone like myself. "God" is very unfair if some people grow up and doesn't get that chance to "meet" him in some way, just because we're not born in a family that need something like that, to stop you from having a breakdown over how pointless life is, and it's "God" who makes it worth living. Hell, a huge amount of kids doesn't even have a family to talk to about such things. Were they evil people in their previous lives or something? That's not how my parents taught me how to think. Be happy with youself and also believe in yourself, and why wouldn't that be good enough? But it's up to everyone to believe what ever they want. I'm only Stefan, and who am I to tell someone that he/she/"it" is wrong when I'm not that person? That's the way I see it.
You religious guys, what would you say if some unknown alien life form, from the planet Shitcake or what ever you'd like to name it, would come to visit us? Real big, green and smart men from another world, saying that there's no such thing as a "God", and we're possibly just the creation of a very advanced civilization? Would you flush the bible down the toilet? There shouldn't be anthing else like us in the universe, right? I don't want an "it won't happen because the bible says so" or something for answer.
How would you think if it really happened, and they got indisputable proof and arguments? Would the "civilization" become the new "God"? I guess the real question is: would you accept that the bible might not be 110 % correct, if something huge like that would occur? Hum, probably not a good question to ask someone religious, though, I've got nothing better to do at the moment.
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I'm not sure I understand your question, Stefan. I'm pretty sure there isn't extraterrestrial life, but I don't know for sure. If big green Shitcake men came and said that...I don't know, I'd probably try to evangelize to them. I really can't make sense of the last paragraph hardly at all.
Max: What DNA evidence? Could you provide some specifically? I would testify to anyone you wanted me to testify to that I believe completely and totally in all of the word of God. My purpose in life is to glorify God by praising Him and sharing His truth with others. I came from...ah...well, see, there's this stork in the sky...I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with that question.
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I guess I was just wondering if you guys believe everything said in the bible, though, I understand if I was kinda weird in that post, sorry.
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fzaxy.files.wordpress.com%2F2007%2F10%2F30-matis-blowgun-hunting.jpg&hash=a61eb7f65807f763debc41185749491863bfa693)
We never knew jack about you.
If you think DNA doesn't exist I don't know where you are...
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avma.org%2Fonlnews%2Fjavma%2Fapr03%2Fimages%2F030415f.gif&hash=24dab047fccbb07f16c853469f299fba1c47b77d)
Goodbye, Dolly.
See this, and also Genetics (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/DNA)
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a fan of the rings ROCKS!
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There's no spaces in between the words in his name, dude.
Max, you have succeeded in utterly confusing me.
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thanks for the info Thiradell-but since it IS my own creation of a name, i feel i can alter it as i see fit! BOOYAH! Peace, Fleece and Taco Grease! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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It more sounds like someone is lost. No worries though, you remind me of when I was 17-19. A big change for me was when I was 16 and 22, and completely took off with myself. 22 is when I began doubting a lot more.
But they're still having a holy war? ****, I'm missing all the fun.
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That was your first post that actually made some sense. Congrats.
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332) owned
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I dont care if you are a fag... hermaphodite, tranny, smack head or a football hooligan, just don't try and ram anything down my throat about anything, I'll decide for myself.
When it comes to god.. I have my own thoughts, But would I ever tell anyone else about them? no!!! lol. what's the point?
And whoever says there are no extra terrestrials (Sp?) is stupid... how can anyone say that? You know how we are not even a grain of sand in the universe right? the chances of me ever bumping into you in real life is like what??? 0.0000000000000000000000000001%? or something? and that is only in a poxy piece of rock called earth.. which is like 80million times smaller than the sun itself which is also a grain of sand in the universe? which goes on forever? ummm i really doubt we are the only people in the universe. It would be nice to think though (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6) that we are the only planet that flourished and that the most technological planets out there are still shittin in holes that they dig, wiping their asses on leaves as such.
i babbled on somewhat, lol... It's made me think a lil.
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And you're not done with original ideas if we're even going to take religion and this topic literally.
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Just give me one scientific fact of evolution. And by evolution I mean the theory that a big bang started the universe and man evolved from fish which evolved from a rock which evolved from ooze. The world is obviously designed by someone.
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there is no scientific proof of what you just said. How can a rock which is not alive, evolve into a fish? The one you want proof for is the one where random chemicals just came together and formed some kind of crude cell, from which single celled organisms evolved and eventually humans.
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Just give me one scientific fact of evolution. And by evolution I mean the theory that a big bang started the universe and man evolved from fish which evolved from a rock which evolved from ooze. The world is obviously designed by someone.
Probably the stupidest thing you've written all topic.
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Lol.
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well a rock to a fish is pretty outrageous. Just so you know Tyler, people, along with all living things are made up ultimately of molecules which are combinations of atoms of different elements. Most living things are some combination mostly of Hydrogen, Oxygen and Carbon, with Nitrogen in there often. The idea of evolution starts that some combination of these elements randomly (or it could have been God) placed themselves together in the same exact combination which is similar to a single celled organism. Alas, we had the first cell. This was the first living thing.
I'm pretty sure that people who believe in evolution believe that these elements DID in fact randomly land together and life was created. People who believe in evolution as part of something created by God can probably see that maybe it was God who started this ridiculous form of life, and others believe in the creationism as explained in Genesis.
I think the odds of these elements coming together and forming the same molecules which are the basis for life are pretty damn low without some kind of aid. Scientists have never been able to create life from sorting non-living atoms together either, but everyone has the right to believe what they want. It did take like 10 billion years for it to happen from the time science claims the Big Bang happened to the time we think life started on Earth so if anything this large time span helps the random-atom-placement theory. You would think if it were possible that the scientists of today could do it though, and cloning isn't the same thing before you guys fire that card.
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"Probably the stupidest thing you've written all topic. "
Yes.
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Why?
I didn't mean to say that fish evolved straight from rocks, Ryan. It's just a partly analogous way of saying life came from non-life. What you said is dead on, and chemicals randomly coming together to form life has never been observed.
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alright word things better next time. I mean a rock evolving into a fish is pretty insane, I don't think anything other than God could cause such a metamorphosis (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f)
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"chemicals randomly coming together to form life has never been observed."
REAAAAAAAAAAAD MORE
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Ugh, I can't phrase anything correctly these days. Life has never come from non-life by random chance or focused efforts in laboratories.
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BOOYAH! the TRUTH is so simple, why try to make it into something even YOU (unbelievers out there) cant understand? right on thiradell, though i think this topic important, you can only lead a horse to water, etc, etc, etc, or in this case you can only present the TRUTH as God has given it, but you cant MAKE anyone believe in Him. thiradell-i really hope that youre prayin for these cats! wouldnt it be amazing if when we got to heaven we could meet up with some of these guys and glorify Jesus Christ together? that would be so AMAZING!!!
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...why try to make it into something...
hypocrite
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Yeah, sure. It makes more sense to believe that something you have never seen, never felt, never anything has created the world/universe/whatever than believe in scientists that did/are doing experiences through years and years making conclusions about our evolution. Of course that they will never show us "here, see this bacteria get along with this little ammount of water. Let's wait a zillion years, then you'll see a human being coming out from it". Ok, they're not 100% sure about it, of course, and they'll never be, but saying that something that the humans created in their minds created the world is, I don't know, ridiculous?
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Dude, they're not 1% sure about it. There are no proven facts of evolution. And (this is the last time I'm going to say this), design implies a Designer.
Right on, afan. Yeah, I know, God has to soften the hearts of unbelievers before they can even respond to stuff like this. That's what He did for me, and I'll praise Him forever for it.
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you can call it a design, others might call it a chaos. you're used to daily life and how things work, so obviously it seems logical and as being a design. even if it were, what implies there's only 1 designer? what's with superlativing the first letter of a word?
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The thing about just assuming there is a designer (of which there are no proven facts of) is that its embracing ignorance. You can believe in God all you want but having the attitude of: "I don't know what it is. I don't know how it works. It's too complicated for me to figure out. It's too complicated for any human being to figure out. So it must be the product of high intelligence." is pretty presumptuous to say the least. Who is anyone to say that just because they can't solve a problem, such as evolution, that neither can anyone else who will ever born? You can't learn anything new about the way the world works by assuming that no one is smart enough to figure out the answer to a problem, thats just promoting a philosophy of obliviousness.
I don't have a problem with people believing in God (except that they're wrong), but I don't want people who could make the next major breakthrough in renewable energy sources, space travel or anything else actually useful, to grow up believing that anything they don't understand, and that nobody yet understands, is divinely contructed and therefore beyond their intellectual capacity.
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Did afan really just ask Thiradell if he was praying for us? What the fuck could prayer possibly do to a bunch of smart guys who aren't going to let the thought of a silly god sink in to their heads? Waste of prayer time I'd say! Pretend you're driving along the interstate and my semi hits you head on and you die instantly, what do you think is going to happen? It's going to turn black, and stay that way! Why? Because heaven is a fairytale and so is heaven's creator's way of living!
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The point of my saying that a fish came from a rock is that life evolved from non-life, which has never been scientifically observed. l337, your post implies that there are many scientific facts that prove evolution. Could you provide one of them?
those moths?
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Jimbo youre STILL cool! YEAH! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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Sorry, Shep, I will clarify. Macroevolution. A fact that proves macroevolution. That is, change outside of species.
Sorry, Wouter. Design implies a designer. How's that? And I'm not going to get into that truth is relative stuff, there is such a thing as order and there is such a thing as chaos, both of which are clearly defined. The world, in terms of nature and things that are non-man-made, is orderly.
Greg, I'm not really saying that since we can't fully understand the world we must assume that there is a God, a higher intelligence. What I'm trying to say is that the world is made to work, down to the smallest detail. The organizations of amino acids to form proteins to form life. The water cycle. A cell, billions (at least) of which comprise living organisms. DNA, with its nucleotide sequences and such. Bacteria have these things called flagellums to move them around, basically like a tail that motorizes them. The design of this microscopic device is fit perfectly together to do its job. The most logical explanation for all of this is that someone designed and created it. Random chance causing all this to happen really seems absurd to me.
Jimbo, heck yes, I'm gonna pray for you. God made the heavens in the beginning (come on, everybody knows that; it's the very first verse), they exist. And...you have a semi?
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"Greg, I'm not really saying that since we can't fully understand the world we must assume that there is a God, a higher intelligence."
Ahem, thats pretty much exactly what is being said. If there was 100% sound proof of evolution - as well as the other cosmic problems - right down to the smallest detail you'd have no reason to believe in God. Instead, you're saying that an absence of sound evidence for evolution (among other things, which btw I completely agree is the case), is evidence of evolutions absence, therefore there is no other "logical" alternative except God. That is, everything that we currently don't understand is being attributed to a high intelligence, even though it is clouded with the same lack of proof as evolution et al. (Note that written passages of text claiming to be true aren't proof, or else everyone would be believing in completely contradictory things, as well as be believing in every other God ever written about.)
I don't really have any problem with this line of reasoning, even if I don't personally think its the case. My post was made to point out some shortcomings in believing in something too avidly, so that it has the potential to stop progress. Ignorance is obviously the natural state of mind for everyone when we reach the perimeter of our knowledge, but I think there is a significant problem that when people reach this boundary, or even before they do, they are actually taught (read: brainwashed) to attribute all the unknowns to God.
After all, I sincerely doubt that the same God that endowed us with senses, reason and intellect would have intended for us to forgo their use.
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Nice post Galileo.
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Sorry, Wouter. Design implies a designer. How's that? And I'm not going to get into that truth is relative stuff, there is such a thing as order and there is such a thing as chaos, both of which are clearly defined. The world, in terms of nature and things that are non-man-made, is orderly.
you are forgetting that everything that is defined, is so by humans. we made our language, our words, our interpretations. you can see everything as a design, others will see the world as a chaos. once again, I ask, why a designer? why singular?
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Okay, design implies that someone (one or more people) designed it. I actually don't think that, I think there are things defined by God. Our language and our words and our interpretations actually do not affect the world at all; the world is still the same. Grass is green (healthy grass, that is), no matter how you "interpret" it.
Okay, Greg, when scientists can't be sure about something, but a theory is asked for, what do they do? They make the best guess they can. Based on my observation of the world, I would say the best guess is that someone designed and created it. I am not saying that that is the only way, and at this point I'm not even trying to convince you of that, I'm just saying it makes the most sense. That's what my senses, reason and intellect tell me, at least.
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This topic's still goin'? Whatever created the universe or whether it created itself is far more powerful than you presumably. It's not going to give you all the answers at once, nor does it expect any 'one' human on Earth to know its secrets. We're in a constant state of proving something new I think.
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That's pretty accurate, actually.
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God is dog backwards (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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God?
God is dead!
I would MUCH rather believe in the idea that the devil created the universe when God wasn't looking.
After all, it's just as pointless to attempt to disprove as any religion is.
I would first like to ask anyone here how ANY observation about the universe could end with the conclusion that it MUST have been created. There is absolutely no logical grounds for making this sort of conclusion based on any empirical evidence.
No, saying, "well, just look at this, it's obvious..." is NOT proof that we MUST have been created, that's just called ignorance.
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Sure there is, dude. Something incredibly organized and very well put together implies that somebody organized it and put it together. Random chance doesn't do stuff like that.
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how about something you just don't know/haven't experienced/can't comprehend? not everything is just straight-forward and solvable by known logic.
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Also very true.
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Firstly...
"Sure there is, dude. Something incredibly organized and very well put together implies that somebody organized it and put it together. Random chance doesn't do stuff like that."
First of all, how do you get off saying that the universe is 'incredibly organized and very well put together?'
For starters, that claim in itself is a subjective statement and a statement of ignorance nonetheless. At what point does any system become organized or well put together?
You also must not understand probability or possibility very well. Before us, there was just the universe. There was no one here to perceive it. The universe existed, its laws governing all motion (just as it continues to do as we are here to watch it and try to understand it), following some very basic rules and guidelines (none of which we have ever observed to have been broken naturally, which says a lot). Logically, it would make sense that, given that there are billions of galaxies, with billions of stars and planets in each, existing for billions of years, the likelihood of intelligent life <i>eventually</i> coming to be doesn't seem so bad.
You see, I think the obstacle that is in front of you is that you look at where we are RIGHT NOW and think that it couldn't have happened. And, in all honestly, you're probably right; but you have to realize that, not more than 20,000 years ago, we were no better than most animals. This earth that we live on had no buildings, had no cars or airplanes or any of that mess, it was just a planet like any other planet existing in the solar system, which just happened to be one suitable for our types of life. Again, 20,000 years ago, we were just another species of animal (and we still are today, but we are the only life on this planet that can actually <i>deny</i> that fact), living mainly off of our animal-like instincts, but we developed the ability to communicate. I think communication was a key to our rapid development.
The point is, it has taken thousands of years for all of this (I'm mainly referring to our sudden technological movement, starting as early as the Middle Ages) to happen on earth, and BILLIONS of years for this to happen in our little galaxy. The odds of something of this nature (the evolution of an intelligent life form) not happening on one of the billion billion billion planets out there is actually kind of unlikely.
And for Wouter...
"how about something you just don't know/haven't experienced/can't comprehend? not everything is just straight-forward and solvable by known logic. "
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. I think you're trying to say we can't know things a priori. You might want to explain a little more what you're trying to get at. I'm also sensing that you're questioning the nature of knowledge itself ('how about something you just don't know?')
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Josh good to see you on the boards again. how are things
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And again, that argument holds absolutely no weight, because it can easily be countered using the SAME argument...
" Something incredibly organized and very well put together implies that somebody organized it and put it together."
Which means that, since condition A (organized/well put together) must only exist through person X (God, in this case) who must necessarily hold that condition A (organized/well put together), then it would logically follow that person X (God, in this case) must exist through this same rule, meaning he (or she) must only exist through another person X, abiding by condition A, and so on and so forth, ad infinitum.
Nonsense.
Edit - Paul, just saw your post. Yeeeeaaaaah, doing alright. I just noticed this topic and I figured I'd jump in to get some ideas of what people think here...
How are you? I see you picked up a controller and played some GE the other day, I've been thinking about doing the same..
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I was simply saying that even if he thinks there's a designer, doesn't mean it has to be fact. it sounds logic to him, so I'm saying that we still lack knowledge and thus logic to solve everything we want to know.
as for playing GE, plan to make videos too? I think you could compete at a decent/good level if you want to.
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i have never had any ability at an n64 game. if you look at my pd times thats genuinly the peak of my ability so i thought how shit can i really be at ge.. I'm good 7 months of hell and back i got a new job and place. Hows the second worst liar in elites history doing (no offence im the first)
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Right, Wouter.
NsPD, how do you know all that stuff? How do you know that there are billions of planets and billions of galaxies and that we've been alive for billions of years? How do you know that we developed the ability to communicate at some point, evolving from all other animals? Which is by the way not very accurate, tons of things besides humans can communicate, the differences that humans exhibit is stuff like creativity and the ability to think beyond base desires, hunger, sexual, etc. Also, it sounds like you're questioning the nature of knowledge too, saying that I don't know if something can be organized or not. I believe that God transcends all time and space and anything you or I could understand; I also believe He is eternal and exists outside of time. You may say, "That's absolutely ridiculous and you have no scientific evidence of such a thing." But look at it this way.
I believe: In the beginning, God...
You believe: In the beginning, dirt, chemicals, natural selection, etc...
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what beginning? it's endless, never started, will never stop
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endless =/= beginningless
Look, beginningless isn't even a word!! It's impossible to have something with no beginning!
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maybe your mind can't comprehend it, doesn't mean it can't be possible.
and I didn't say they were the same thing either.
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I'm with Socrates: I know that I know nothing.
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Alright, let's get down to business...
From the beginning...
'NsPD, how do you know all that stuff? How do you know that there are billions of planets and billions of galaxies and that we've been alive for billions of years?'
I personally don't know all of this. But scientists, in their respected fields, have been able to figure out a lot about our universe through observation and then deductive reasoning. To simply observe that our situation is rather improbable and then jump to the conclusion that it must have been created through the means of something which defies all logic sounds to me a bit like a hasty generalization.
'How do you know that we developed the ability to communicate at some point, evolving from all other animals?'
Again, I can't personally know this. The facts add up pretty well; there is rather incriminating evidence for the necessity of natural selection which is a governing proponent of all of the universe.
'Which is by the way not very accurate, tons of things besides humans can communicate, the differences that humans exhibit is stuff like creativity and the ability to think beyond base desires, hunger, sexual, etc.'
I guess I should have been a little more clear on that. We have what is called the imagination. Humans also have a further developed sense of causal cognition, a part of what makes us believe as well as creates the illusion of 'understanding.'
'Also, it sounds like you're questioning the nature of knowledge too, saying that I don't know if something can be organized or not. I believe that God transcends all time and space and anything you or I could understand; I also believe He is eternal and exists outside of time.'
I'm not questioning the nature of knowledge (a topic which we could go on for a while about); I'm simply pointing out that an observation made by an individual that claims organization or any sort of order found within chaos is making just that; a claim. It's an abstract idea, created within the confines of the imagination, the imagination only something which people possess. That would be why an animal would not be able to even conceive of a creator, or venture down the thought path of how it or anything around it came to be. The imagination itself is partially responsible for the idea of a god, as well as the idea of the necessity of a god (although this, I'm sure, stems from other causes moreso than just the imagination, it only being a manifold, a necessary part in the creation of our idea of necessity).
Again, I wasn't attempting to question the nature of knowledge; the subject of epistemology could go on forever. I was making a point that such observations (the organization of a system) are only subjections, not objections, and therefore are altogether meaningless, and therefore it would follow that any attempt to assign a cause to this is as good as trying to give reason to why you like the color red or why I like the taste of chocolate.
' You may say, "That's absolutely ridiculous and you have no scientific evidence of such a thing." But look at it this way.
I believe: In the beginning, God...
You believe: In the beginning, dirt, chemicals, natural selection, etc... '
I suppose, but I would say my belief is a bit more justified. For starters, when there is a flaw found within my reasoning, (say, new evidence is found supporting a new claim), then my beliefs change to fit that which is more reasonable. I look at the new evidence, I look at the old evidence, and I attempt to use my reasoning to understand the contradictions within the situation and eventually reason will prevail. The religious way is to attempt to 'patch up' that flaw, to cover it with god's tracks, by simply fitting god's (UNKNOWABLE) nature to fit the situation. This causes many contradictions within many religions to the point of embarrassment, I would say.
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Too long, didn't read.
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Ok, I've only glanced at a few comments in this topic, just in case I go over something someone else had already said.
Ok IMO there HAS to be some sort of creator, whether it is god, or something us humans haven't got the brain capacity to understand. Just look at the world with an open mind, it's not hard to see that this didn't all happen just by chance. Sure evolution has its theory, but its theory is flawed. Apparently we all came from monkeys? Yet they have never found an in-between. They have bones of a monkey and bones of a man, but no in-between. Same for a chicken, cow etc.
Personally I believe the bible was written by some incredibly intelligent people, taking star signs to a different level. I mean you ask any Religious group to read you any scripture from the bible. To most people it sounds like twaddle. But once they explain THEIR belief on the scripture it makes a little sense. But if other religions read the same scripture they could explain their beliefs on it completely different but their version could make sense too.
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this didn't all happen just by chance.
eh, if it 'happened', it was created and thus has a creator. maybe it always already WAS, don't try to understand when you can't (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148)
many things sound intelligent to the less intelligent...
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I think you've completely misunderstood my point. Because your comment makes no sense to me whatsoever.
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Wouter is saying that you're implying there was a 'happening,' some cause for this existence. He's merely trying to point out the fact that it's a very real possibility that this universe just is. And again, believers miss the point entirely; they claim the universe could not have possibly come about by chance, so they assign a creator. The only problem is, this creator is even MORE unbelievable; not only did it create something that is almost unbelievable, but the creator itself cannot be seen, spoken to, understood, and is entirely outside of this time and space and logic. Oh, and it, in some religions, sometimes listens to our prayers (yet will watch happy, innocent people die).
Now how does THAT make sense?
That's called filling in the holes. I mean, realistically, even when we talk about the universe, we should realize that even assuming it was created is going against Occam's razor. And further again, assuming this God is even still around is going against Occam's razor. Realistically, if I were to believe that this universe was created, I would honestly believe one of three things, given the observations I personally have witnessed:
1) God is dead. Most religions claim God is immortal, so this would make no sense to them.
2) God is no longer watching over the universe; or rather, at least our portion of it. He has turned his back on it for whatever reason. Maybe to go off and watch a different galaxy. Most religions claim God is all-knowing, so this wouldn't make sense either.
3) The devil created the universe while God wasn't looking. After all, why is there evil? Really? And why does God continue to let it happen?
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is it me or do 95% of wouters comments make no sense to ANYONE? no offense, wouter, but i struggle to grasp what you say almost always (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148) thiradell-you da man!!! i love it!!! you keep on representing The Truth and The Truth will work His power (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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What exactly is 'His power?'
Give me an example of what it is.
I've never seen it.
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not understanding me proves that its pointless to argue with you since you try to tell me I'm wrong when you don't even know what I'm saying. appearantly I'm out of your league and I can see why you think the way you do.. my posts aren't that difficult, it's mostly simple logic.
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NSPD wrote:
What exactly is 'His power?'
Give me an example of what it is.
I've never seen it.
Everything that happens in the world can be considered "his power."
You have to realize that God is not some guy in the sky. God is not a being in a human sense. God is more of a force. He (or it, whatever you want to call it) controls everything that happens in the universe. Whether you believe that it's all some man who has predestined our lives, well good. But you can also believe something like "ohh, I think we can do whatever we want and nothing is there to control us." If you believe in this sense, then "God" is "whatever allows us to do whatever we want with nothing there to control us."
No matter what you believe in, there is some definition of God that fits to you, and this is why God is eternal and ubiquitous.
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the only thing that calls it god is religion, science would give some force of nature a more fitting name.
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God isn't good enough? Maybe you're just a homosexual.
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though your dog is fucking cute (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6)
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Ooh, Ryan, God indeed had no beginning. That'll send your head in a whirl.
NsPD, I believe the order of a structure is an objective thing that can be correctly stated. When a human eats something, their teeth break it down into digestible parts. It's swallowed through the esophagus, which pushes the food down to help dislodge pieces that would potentially be too large otherwise. It then falls into the stomach, where acids break it down and it enters the small intestine. Villi absorb the nutrients and useful parts of what we eat, while the rest continues into the large intestine where it is broken down into fecal matter expelled as waste. This is a very simple analysis of digestion, operated by trillions of cells all working in coordination to do this. There is such a thing as order, and the human body is an excellent example.
"To simply observe that our situation is rather improbable and then jump to the conclusion that it must have been STOP RIGHT THERE I NEVER SAID THAT I ONLY SAID IT'S THE MOST LIKELY THNG created through the means of something which defies all logic sounds to me a bit like a hasty generalization."
Could you provide some "old evidence" for evolution, by the way? I've seen nothing of the sort.
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yeah wouter...your doggie is pretty danged cute (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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I don't believe in the bible and I don't believe we came from the sea either. I have no idea why we are here; neither does any man/woman on this planet. But it's fun to discuss the possibilities.
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ich bin ein glaubiger!
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"Apparently we all came from monkeys? Yet they have never found an in-between. They have bones of a monkey and bones of a man, but no in-between. Same for a chicken, cow etc."
lmao @ this.
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Sarcasm on*
Yes, I can see why your laughing. That's hilarious. No sense in my comment whatsoever. haha so funny!
Sarcasm off*
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What anyone believe in is pointless. Tell me when you know. I personally believe that no one in our world can say they know anything. I can't be sure that I'm actually here now. I personally think that you can only believe, and that's it. If you guys have seen god (I haven't, so far) I can't tell you that you're wrong, because I don't KNOW it, and probably (again, I can't know for sure it won't happen) never will!
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I'm kind of sure you are acting weird.
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Graham's logic is sound. There has been no observed stage between apes and humans whatsoever, contrary to what scientists have observed and proved. And the two completely non-analagous examples of cow and chicken fit right into his argument, as well as being the name of a popular TV show. Best argument ever.
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There HAVEN'T been any in-betweens only Ramapithecus which was made by man. Neanderthals were just like normal people only they had flat noses, your stereotypical caveman.
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332) ROFL @ Red Bull!!! Ha Ha!!!
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A FAN A FAN
OF THE RINGS OF THE RINGS
A FAN A FAN
OF THE RINGS OF THE RINGS
A FAN OF THE RINGS
A FAN OF THE RINGS
A FAN, A FAN, A FAN OF THE RINGS
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO AFOTR!
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Well, Stefan, if you can't know anything, how can you know that you can't know anything? We can know stuff.
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Here's my logic.
Remember the ball that falls through the wooden plate with nails? Every time the ball comes down in a different way and takes a different path downwards. Its random.
Well..not completely. Minor differences in wind changes, gravity, and other enviromental aspects will affect it, yes, but we call it "random". if there wasnt a single aspect to influence it, the ball woudnt even move, or stay put on the absolute top of the first nail. Or even better: there woudnt have been a ball at all.
My opinion is, there is no such thing as complete randomness. It doesnt exist. Everything in this world has a reason for it to happen one way or another.
But here comes the problem! the reason for sΓΒ³me things to happen however, we can't explain. And that is where the word "believe" comes in. You "believe" that "this unexplainable event X " happened because of [ solution A] or [ solution B].
That is also why it's an endless discussion. The unexplainable. Some people call it Religion/God, some people call it "where sience hasnt come yet". Because Science or God, they are both believes about the unexplainable.
However, the only "advantage" science has over religion is that it's flexible. For example: We say that there is "literally nothing" between molecules. If some guy shows up with a research saying "look through this gigantic microscope showing there are little smurfs in between!" then we say "well...ok...f*ck it, smurfs it is then."
And there comes my last point. Why is there no Religion with a theory contradicting any proven scientific thing? It sounds weird and suspicious to me that the church changed its intrepetation of "the creation of the universe" after people discovered the earth is nothing like the centre of the universe. I am afraid that the future will only continue to bring down Religious fundaments by new scientific proof.
However, If scientific proof will be presented that has the conclusion that there is zero possibility of us people going to heaven or hell, because "sciencewise" there is no chance of it existing, it probably woudnt convince ONE believer in God to think different I guess. And that's weird to me as well, given the fact that Christian Fundaments (like God/Heaven/etc) are mostly based on things that havent been proven yet.
Conclusion
In my opinion, Religions like Christianity fit "just a bit to good" in the situation of "what we don't know yet". As history has shown us before....Egytians also tent to believe that the Pharaoh was send by the gods and therefor it was invincible. Well, I think that we can all agree on that beeing not true. But back then, people coudn't prove it wasnt true at all. It was "unexplainable" at that time and therefore "a believe". Why wouldnt Christianity have the same fate, if all other old believes have been proven to be not possible?
I think you understand by now that I personally don't believe in God. But let me finish this post by saying I truly admire Religion in general, how it brings people together. It remains a beautiful concept.
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Good post, Cara. Thought out, rational, pretty good. The only thing I don't understand is you saying the church changed its interpretation of the creation of the universe because the earth isn't the center of the galaxy. I don't remember anything like this happening...what are you referring to?
And now I'm going to go one step further and say that that something must have created this world. I will now say that it is the only logical explanation for the universe we see. I think a wise Designer shaping and crafting the world we live in is evidenced greatly by the incredible order and beauty of things. Look at a computer, you think: "Wow, the guy who invented this must've been a genius." Look at the world, why would you think anything different?
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The reason why this world and why humans seem so "perfectly designed" can be because of a design, but also because of complete chaos. It depends whatever you believe. There is simply NO truth yet.
I believe in chaos, and with that I mean: Those things look designed, but that is only because we live and fit in this world so well because of the evolution. From our perspective as human beings, our frame of reference it indeed looks like it is designed but for me...its just another coincidence because of that story with the ball and the nails.
Now this world "being designed" or "became this way because of evolution", we won't know it until the truth will come out somehow. Until then, we can discuss it, but there is no point in it since it is an endless discussion.
I place some bigass question marks by the story of it being designed though. This universe simply isnt perfect. There is violence everywhere, look at the universe itself. Black holes, enormous comets that destroy entire planets when striking it, etc etc. On micro level, humans in this earth tent to kill and hurt each other, etc etc. ΓΒf this universe was designed then I have to say it/he/she made some major mistakes.
edit: what would you say if someone discovered live on another planet btw? The bible says nothing about it so I suggest you don't think there is live on other planets?
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you should go travel with your "tent" (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148)
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is this how you got your 1234092873402836023 posts?
man what a life you must have
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define life
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define define
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well... define Chris.
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Red Bull youre sick!!! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332) You be makin a brotha laugh to hard-i be wettin myself!!! HAHAHAHAHA-Red Bull said "define define" who is this Red Bull? HAHA (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332)
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Alright...this could take a while...
"NsPD, I believe the order of a structure is an objective thing that can be correctly stated. When a human eats something, their teeth break it down into digestible parts. It's swallowed through the esophagus, which pushes the food down to help dislodge pieces that would potentially be too large otherwise. It then falls into the stomach, where acids break it down and it enters the small intestine. Villi absorb the nutrients and useful parts of what we eat, while the rest continues into the large intestine where it is broken down into fecal matter expelled as waste. This is a very simple analysis of digestion, operated by trillions of cells all working in coordination to do this. There is such a thing as order, and the human body is an excellent example."
Great job giving a brief run down of digestion. Now, using the same argument as before, because this process seems organized within a system of chaos, does digestion necessarily prove that we MUST have been created?
"To simply observe that our situation is rather improbable and then jump to the conclusion that it must have been STOP RIGHT THERE I NEVER SAID THAT I ONLY SAID IT'S THE MOST LIKELY THNG created through the means of something which defies all logic sounds to me a bit like a hasty generalization."
Alright...I'm not following your logic. You're saying that we live in this big crazy universe, whose origins may very well be unexplainable (but at the same time possibly can be), so the most likely thing is to assign a creator as the answer and say it is entirely outside of anything we can imagine (not within our time, space, logic, and its nature is unable to be known). How is THAT more likely than any scientific explanation we may come up with?
And lastly...
"Could you provide some "old evidence" for evolution, by the way? I've seen nothing of the sort. "
I'm not really going to get into the evidence for or against evolution. Evolution itself may or may not exist, but nonetheless, it has nothing to do with the creation of the universe.
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And, a question for you (or anyone)...
Now, you gave a pretty good analysis of the basic digestive system operation. You even concluded with the fact that it is operated by trillions of cells, all working in coordination.
A few things...
Can you control ANY of these cells? They just operate accordingly, correct?
What about the nervous system? What about thought? Is not thought a similar process? Thought is something in which we believe we have control over, but at what point do we gain control? Do we control our minds, or do our minds control us?
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"Do we control our minds, or do our minds control us?"
I don't know. All I know is the U.S. is trying to mind control some people.
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Quite possibly, but that's not the point I'm trying to get at.
I'm trying to get at the fact that we are a series of chemical reactions, and our imagination consequently creates the illusion that we are able to make choices.
Studies were done where patients were hooked up to a machine that monitered activity within the brain as well as muscles within the arms. When asked to press a button with their left hand, it was recorded that patients were receiving signals to the brain from the muscles seconds before the actual thought was even formed. The point is that we simply respond to stimuli. We have no ultimate control over our actions. Sounds weird.
I'm kind of looking to get into the topic of free will, and god's role in our actions.
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afanoftherings, your avatar scares me.
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Ohh, I thought this was a serious topic for a minute...never mind.
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ah dont worry about my avatar, its nice once you get to know it. its just me screwin around with photobooth on my mac. its me with a special effect thrown in to pinch my face towards the middle of the screen. didnt mean to frighten anybody (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148)
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It is a serious topic. In its essence. Somewhere, down deep. I promise! I actually think that a great God that we cannot comprehend creating the universe is very likely because the order and magnitude of the universe is far beyond anything mankind has done, and it follows that God is far beyond us.
The discussion of God's role in our actions...that's a tough one. Somebody throws a ball to you, you can choose whether or not to catch it (unless you suck at catching). Somebody tells you something, you can choose whether or not to believe it. Different people can respond differently (and even one person can respond in different ways at different times) to the same stimuli.
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God is VERY creative and He has designed us in such a way that reflects His unsearchable creativity, i.e. likes, pleasures, etc. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e) He MUST be enormous to make billions and billions of people through out time all desire and like different things! btw i like salmon!! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e) yo thiradell are you a bible student? you are pretty thorough and solid every time you post in this subject...love ya bro
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Arguing about religion is one big laugh!
If a statement like "God exists" can in no way be observed or researched, then it doesn't have any meaning. The phrase "God exists" is the typical example of a non-sensical statement. It's not empirically possible to test in any case, so why argue about it?
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Test the existence of numbers, RB. The physical, real existence of numbers.
afan is right on with his post. I am a student, I study it and try to learn from my peers/teachers as best I can. I love you too, man; seriously. Nice to have someone by my side in this topic.
NsPD, there should be something in that syllogism (sp) about the universe and the way it works being far beyond us. I'm not necessarily talking about likes/dislikes (food, music, sports, etc.); I'm talking about the most basic, barebones choice. Like, catching a ball or letting it fall.
A ball is thrown to me. I can:
Catch (or at least make an effort to catch) it.
Let it fall.
I can do either of these at any time whenever I want.
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Thiradell you're a frickin stud! May your crops grow to feed everyone on the planet-and may you're seeds find fertile soil! You're AWESOME! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e) btw you REALLY need an avatar! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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maybe, but you really need NOT to have one.
thi, look in the phone book
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Thiradell, what are you talking about, test the numbers? Do you even know what I mean?
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Yeah, that was a stretch to say what I did, I won't try to explain it further. Hmm...how about the phrase, "20 billion years ago, a packed mass of clouds and dust exploded, and so the evolution of all we see before us today began." Could that be tested?
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Thiradell:
"NsPD, there should be something in that syllogism (sp) about the universe and the way it works being far beyond us. I'm not necessarily talking about likes/dislikes (food, music, sports, etc.); I'm talking about the most basic, barebones choice. Like, catching a ball or letting it fall.
A ball is thrown to me. I can:
Catch (or at least make an effort to catch) it.
Let it fall.
I can do either of these at any time whenever I want "
First off, your 'syllogism' (which is just a fancy word for a conclusion based off of deductive reasoning: [All A is C; All B is A; therefore, all C is B]) is no syllogism at all. You provide no support for the claim that god must necessarily be far beyond us, and you provide no evidence for the hastily-received conclusion that God created the universe.
And even if you throw the universe and its components into the mix, you have to find some reasoning connecting the totality of the universe with the nature of god itself. We can talk all day about how the laws of the universe operate precisely and without regards, but we have yet to understand the nature of these laws themselves. There is, at this point, no logical way to jump from any observation about the universe to a conclusion concerning its method of creation.
Well, I turned 21 today so I really shouldn't be wasting my time with this right now, but I'll tell you that I will get back to discuss free will soon. Later.
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Happy 21st NsPD! Be safe and smart brother!
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I've already established that both religious and non-religious people lie, steal, commit violence, etc.,. Yes, maybe you think different because of your belief but does that mean you're more important?
Keep debating this if you have nothing else better to do.
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No, I agree, GreatMax. But Jesus died on the cross to take away the punishment for those sins; to justly forgive us. That's why I love God so much.
NsPD, I'm just saying that the incredible, over-our-heads complexity of the universe makes the theory of a God we can never truly understand or fully know creating that universe much more plausible. Happy Birthday!
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NsPD, I'm just saying that the incredible, over-our-heads complexity of the universe makes the theory of a God we can never truly understand or fully know
creating that universe much more plausible.
So god created the UNIVERSE. You know how big that is? Let's say that the universe is infinite, then there would be infinite versions of the-elite with another me, Wouter, Thiradell, Max and NsPD somewhere in it. He created Earth but there are other planets aswell, and other solarsystems. So can god judge animals aswell? Why didn't he like the dinosaurs? So does god control other lives in other parts of the universe that we don't even know exists yet? And what about the conscious? Let's say you had none, that is a scary thought because if you don't exist then nothing else exists, therefore life is simply unnecessary. Thinking of the universe and how big it is and how small and unnecessary we are I cannot believe there is a god.
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well, you could define it in a better way though! all the hot girls! they're SO DAMN HOT I FUCKING LOVE (FUCKING) THEM I WILL CALL THEM GOD FROM NOW ON
OH my GOD yuo were SO GOOD in BED with DIN MOR (and myself) last NIGHT
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rofl hahaha
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hey Wouter, you could try being mature once in a while.
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so we live for God and then when we die we will have even more... why doesn't everyone just die then?
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we are given a decision to LIVE for Him and He will reward us by our faith (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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but if all it takes is faith then why not drink and sex and swear and be pretty much useless our whole lives?? As long as you believe in the Lord and thank him for your life he will reward you!
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because LIVING for Him means that you put away all of the lewdness and corruption and bring love to your brother and by this you are showing your love for God and displaying your faith
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but I do love God and have faith in God and whenever I'm happy I thank God and whenever I'm down I pray to God. My actions might be sinful but my spirit is not!
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the BIBLE says that your actions (and WORDS) directly reflect your heart and what is REALLY within your spirit despite what you think you feel...btw thanks for being civilized and decent! i very much enjoy decent, civilized conversation about God (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e) Matthew 12:34 and Proverbs 14:12
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hmmm, well that's pretty crappy. What does it say about social norms and reasons for acting sinful?
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not sure what "social norms" are, but it EMPHATICALLY states that we (as mankind) act sinful because of our sinful nature and there is NO WAY out if it APART from asking Christ to forgive you (and OF COURSE, believing it in your hearT) (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e) btw once you taste and see the nature of God and experience His goodness in your life personally, you will not think of it as crappy..actually i think of my life BEFORE i gave it to Christ as crappy. i am set free of all the guilt and shame because GOD has said to me "I forgive you Shawn"
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well I ask Christ to forgive me every day... and I have faith that God's love is never ending... not only that but I am certainly willing to accept God's judgment when I die because I know that he is a righteous, loving God who will make the right decision!
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i think youre right there my brother. i think you just need a realization of sorts. thanks for being honest and open. i will be praying for you (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f)
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thanks buddy, I've been waiting for a realization for quite some time now.
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f)
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3279%2F2565651088_c9c1138ec8_o.jpg&hash=7c7483ddac5394d0b4ccc5a68f01510f5ebc6699)
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6)
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hahaha, nice one.
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loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
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Goose has a point. I used to believe in God and live like garbage because I didn't give a fuck if I showed off my faith or not, the bible said if I truly believed Jesus died for me, I was going to heaven. Now god damnit I am going to have tons of sex, swear, and have a ton of fun on earth here; in no way will I go to church on Sunday and tithe 10% of my hard-earned money to a god who CREATED money.
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tbqh Jimbo, not drinking because you're worried about calories is way more pussy than not drinking because of religion.
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I don't drink because I just don't enjoy it, I never got the gene to enjoy fucking yourself up, that was a terrible comeback!
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fatso!
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Psalm 53:1, Psalm 74:22, Psalm 94:8, Proverbs 1:7, Proverbs 3:35, Proverbs 10:14, man Jimbo, there are a vast number of verses that go on about this! before you sound off, you might do well to think of these verses, along with others...im just sayin brother... (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fohwell.gif&hash=bb0d6706659211344c8b0105d84285ae23571845)
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I fail to see the logic in not enjoying an activity that releases dopamine.
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if i was God, i would make sure all human residents on the planet Earth who simply did not believe in me be punished into eternal hell fire. Oh yeah, thats what your God does... and hang on a second, what if you get to heaven and you meet one of the other hundred Gods there. Pwned by fire
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My faith has no room for "other," weak "gods," therefore i WON'T "meet" any other "gods," except for the One who granted me eternal life by the shedding of His blood! PWNED!!! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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let's pwn this topic to the next page. FAST
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PWNED (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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Afan is a moron.
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thanks buddy (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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And who created the bible? god?......... bunch a fucking morons more like.
There is a hundreds gods out there by the way, what makes you so sure you are believing in the right god???? I might take up the Jedi religion that looks pretty legit
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I believe in the god of view! As in, what I can see is what I believe in basically.
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I BELIEVE IN GOD AND WILL ALWAYS DO SO BECAUSE OF JESUS AND SO, AND JESUS SETS ME FREE FROM ALL MY SINS AND I WILL LOVE HIM FOREVER. JESUS CHRIST, YOU'RE MY HERO FOREVER, GIMME YOUR LOVE!
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I'll take Faith from Buffy any day.
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Sweden have now banned the teaching of religion as fact in its country. This is a step forward and other countries should adopt it.
Protecting children in schools from these lies is definitely the way to go.
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In order for something to be a lie, it has to be mistaken as factual truth. Faith by definition is believing in something that is not concrete... it is impossible to take a message of "faith" and call it a lie. It is simply a statement and what can be done with it is your choice.
Mark = pwned as the usual loser he is.
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I sure would hate to be the leaders (in Sweden) that made those decisions when God, in His Awesome wrath, come back to claim what is His!!! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
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hey Shawn, do you have any kind of messenger? I would love to talk to you right now.
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OMG i was just thinking the same thing!!! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Feek.gif&hash=5fc5b032ffecc0869b61bad31bcee959c46eea9d)
btw i just have ichat also email afanoftherings@yahoo.com or afanoftherings@gmail.com
im listening to UltraTrance 6 (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f) thinkin of ya bro (no homo) or just make a topic where we chat (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Flaugh.gif&hash=657f1346088ce2081c398c7379c3a47e4cf5861b)
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hmm, I don't have ichat. Maybe you can suggest a passage on... well I'm not looking forward to school and I'm worried I will fail again; not use any of my new experiences to succeed this time. Simply be an idiot and repeat exactly what I did last time.
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simply ask God for wisdom and the ability to focus. ask him to strip you of your fears of failure (which we all have from time to time) and to give you a confidence that is absolutely from Him (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f) gimme a minute for some scripture...
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I do have the power within myself to focus, I just don't focus on school because I don't enjoy it. Maybe I should ask God to help me enjoy school instead?
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Psalm 4:1
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I don't understand it (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fembarassed.gif&hash=5641b47ebaa060c9559e379ec4d9f9bfb35dd661)
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what power you have was given to you, so dont think for a minute that anything you have is YOURS! Proverbs 3:5
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4:1 is speaking to have trust in Him, for everything, especially to hear you and deliver you from your troubles...
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heh... I do have a lot of power for sure, but I don't know what to do with it. It is quite interesting that it is God's power. Hmmm, what would he want me to do with it.
I'm sure God knows there are loads of better things to use your power on that university... I don't get why society thinks it's the way to go for people my age. Maybe society is evil or stupid?
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Psalm 56:4 is great too (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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being educated is not wrong or evil in an of itself, rather it's where your heart lies...if you care (as a single person OR as a society) more about education than you do about loving God, than you need to check your heart
walk me through how to set up an instant chat thingy...what do you use...im dumb with computers (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
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I really don't want to right now. Sorry for being an ass. I'm not quite sure I understood your answer. ahhhhhhh I can't think straight right now.
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just have some quiet time with the Lord and ask Him to help you prioritize and to give you peace..i will ABSOLUTELY pray for you (we gotta chat sometime (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e) )
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I know what my priorities are and I'm sure the Lord will be fine with them... I just don't think others will be (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
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I just feel like what I believe the Lord wants me to do in life is very different than the ideals of society and what others (my family for example) wants me to do right now... and I don't know what to do about it (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
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"The Lord works in Mysterious ways!!~!"
Christopher Hitchens is awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u_pyZ-ybw8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u_pyZ-ybw8)
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Sweden truly is a role model for the rest of the world (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fglasses.gif&hash=bff6876d09c6ed8ee21b0a68387099c1d34ffa13)
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fohwell.gif&hash=bb0d6706659211344c8b0105d84285ae23571845)
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I just wanna say that I am an atheist from feet to head. I read some of Richard Dawkins books and I really advise everybody who posted in this thread to do the same.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T27kB4BjbEg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T27kB4BjbEg)
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"if you care (as a single person OR as a society) more about education than you do about loving God, than you need to check your heart"
This is why some of the most religious areas in any country are some of the most backward.
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Loving God doesn't help the economy in any way, that would explain why some extremely religious countries or areas are so poor and why they're all so dumb. They're just learning the wrong stuff!
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but if you really have strong faith, then you don't care about money... since you have God which is infinitely more important.
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Kill everyone who doesn't believe in the same god imo.
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsick.gif&hash=147d83ab69333060437ede2e0058676600b3ea8c) ...seek help ^
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Jesus Christ (no pun intended), this topic has become a chatroom for confused theistic-believers who will realize at the end of their lives how much they wasted it away.
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SOMEONE will have been wrong-that's for sure...(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fohwell.gif&hash=bb0d6706659211344c8b0105d84285ae23571845)
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I don't quite see how you're wasting your life. People who believe in God and live for God with every breath still live good fulfilled lives. It's all relative to the person how good of a life they live, and it's all a choice we make. Someone who does everything for God will in general live no worse a life than a devout atheist. It's all in the eye of the beholder.
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Yeah, Jimbo, I don't really see how I'm wasting my life in contrast as to how you're not. If I'm wrong at the end of my life, darn. You've got more consequences to consider, actually...
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Why don't all god believers just commit mass suicide so they can go to heaven. I kind of see this as a win:win situation. You get to go to your heaven which is supposed to be a magical lovely place with lots of flowers and stunning architecture, where you can be closer to god and see all your relatives and friends who have passed away.
Then all the stuff that is bad with this world will slowly disappear since it's all religion fueled anyway and us athiests can carry on our normal lives.
Suicide bombers are half way there. All they need to do is stop taking innocent fucking lives when they take their own, and they can go see their god and heaven.
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You're so deluded Mark.
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didnt you start this topic 1337? (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
the reason to NOT commit mass-suicide is because we are trying to show others the power and love of Christ! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
not everyone is as narrow-minded as yourself...er...at least your "idea" (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f)
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question: Once everyone knows the power and love of Christ, then what?
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Armageddon!
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that's a great question (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
at that point i would be ready for something more AWESOME than you could imagine! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fohwell.gif&hash=bb0d6706659211344c8b0105d84285ae23571845)
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respect, mark
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I guess we'll just see who's first at the end of our lives, according to Wouter;)
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"suicide" isnt sin, per se, it's the taking of a life that is looked at as sin in God's eyes. imho, suicide is the ultimate way of saying "i love myself more than anything" and only shows how self-centered and oblivious to the world around you a person gets...had a family member commit suicide because "she couldn't "go on"" instead of asking for help (and sincerely meaning it) she decided to leave behind four children (two were under 10 years old!) to me she thought that SHE was ultimately more important than her family and especially her children. sad story, but our family has dealt with it. im not sure exactly where her heart was with God when she died, but thankfully God is the Ultimate Judge and His judgments and dealings are just and true. dont know if there could be any happiness or joy from a suicide, but in the end, God will have dealt with the person(s) according to His love and His being just.
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may god be with us all!
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well Shawn, that's all relevant to some feelings suicidal people have, like "I have no purpose in life" or "there's nothing for me to do" or "I'm useless." In your case (sorry if it gets personal) it sounds like this woman did actually have purpose, a family to take care of at the very least, but what about times when people actually have nothing to do or anything to care for?
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it's still sad, but i still believe that they are thinking too selfishly imaho. i suppose this is another of those conversations that has no ONE clear cut, definitive, resolution...until, that is...the "other side"
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and Henning...He would be if we'd all just allow Him in...(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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I agree that you can never actually get in the situation where you have nothing, or you can do nothing. You can always find reason to live... just look at John McCain for instance. If you always have faith and stay strong then you will find reason one day, and if you don't have reason then just keep going and you will find it!
That is all. Josette.
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DARKNESS ASCENDS EVERYONE
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
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Jezus christ what a beautiful post!
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6) ????????????????????????????
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fuckyoupaulwithrain
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"Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church."
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Hello christians,
Is it true god put dinosaur bones in the earth to test peoples faith?
How do you feel about The Large Hadron Collider recreating the effect of the big bang, furthermore providing more evidence that the book of genesis is nothing more than a fairy tale?
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People who believe in an omnipotent, omniscient, omnivoyant God clearly believe he is capable of putting dinosaur bones there to test people's faith, and capable of controlling the people to make the LHC and controlling the outcome of the experiment to show that the big bang certainly could have happened (again to test their faith.) Your argument completely fails to these people.
God did these things for the same reason you exist. As a test of our faith. Your purpose on Earth is solely to try to deflect people from religion, just as one of a Christian's purposes is to preach the word of God and Jesus. There quite possibly is no difference in the quality of life of these two people, the major concern lies in the afterlife, and whether or not you believe in it, I hope you are ready to burn in Hell if that's what it comes down to.
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Think of all the people who've died in meaningless wars caused by an idea. Battle doesn't prove who is right but who is left.
If those people knew then what we knew now history wouldn't be the same. If it were perfect people wouldn't talk about the 'should have been.'
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"People who believe in an omnipotent, omniscient, omnivoyant God clearly believe he is capable of putting dinosaur bones there to test people's faith"
lol plz, listen to yourself
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Believe in me! I am the god of the new "BLOMMOR" religion!
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oh my! I DO believe in Din Mor!
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With corruption in religion and other places I won't mention who knows for sure?
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Conclusion/Highlights of this topic so far!
Octo: "Lets try to keep this a sharing experience, and keep the judging to a minimum =)."
Illu : " ahhhhhh don't speak negatively about religion, WAAAR this means WAAAARRR!!!!"
Bully:" SZ is probably a dinmorist"
Nari: " i pwn the pope"
Goose:
Ryan White is:
-good looking
-well dressed
-popular
-a successful university student and hockey player
-a well respected member in his community and online community
Wouter: "all things that are proven, how do you know they ARE? did you check them?"
Goose: " These last two posts just made me cry "
Jimbo: "Can you answer as to why my grandpa, who lived one of the greatest, most righteous lives God could ask for, got diagnosed with alzheimers at age 55 and died at age 67? "
Thiradell: " Jimbo, the sad thing is that your grandpa quite simply got what he deserved. "
Goose: "Being born is a sin."
Durk: " yeah but, no but, yeah but..............my Bible says so!"
TheGreatMax: " 500 dollars? Why not 100 or 1000? "
Vitor: " I believe in Stevie Wonder."
Karl: " If it was your intention to hurt my feelings guys... congratulations, you did well."
Goose: "Nice! I'm really glad that I succeeded at making you feel bad. This really gives me a lot of confidence in knowing that I can make the right decisions.
Greg @ GreatMax: " That was your first post that actually made some sense. Congrats."
SupaOdin: "God is dog backwards (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)"
SupaOdin: " Too long, didn't read."
Goose: " God isn't good enough? Maybe you're just a homosexual."
Wouter: " define life"
Max: " define define"
Afan: " Red Bull youre sick!!! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332) You be makin a brotha laugh to hard-i be wettin myself!!! HAHAHAHAHA-Red Bull said "define define" who is this Red Bull? HAHA (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332)"
Afan: "love ya bro"
Thiradell:" I love you too, man; seriously"
Thiradell: "I agree, GreatMax"
Durk: " Afan is a moron."
Afan: "Thanks buddy (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)"
Afan:" Psalm 4:1"
Goose: " I don't understand it"
TheGreatMax: "Battle doesn't prove who is right but who is left. "
If god is cool he would lock this topic NOW! Quickly! Can't get any better than this!
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God is BEYOND cool! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
He's INFINI-COOL!
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He's made up
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...of REAL big stuff! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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Big bullshit, too.
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what's it like knowing you two guys are put here solely to test Christians' faiths and are just little dumplings of life going straight to Hell when you die (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6)
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You're living in my definition of hell right now, hitching a ride on the never-ending quest for love, and believing in something so catastrophically wrong that you change your entire lifestyle to live around it. Hell indeed exists, but not as the "lake of fire" as described in the Bible. Even when I did go to church and believe in Christianity, I pictured "hell" as just being the worst possible scenario to everything you could ever imagine. (like if you hate bees like I'd do, I'd live in a room with 100 beehives and no friends and no internet and no N64 etc). Doesn't it ever bother you that when you think about it, you believe something insane like a SPIRIT created you and he sent a HUMAN son to save your dumb ass and bring you into "heaven" (also open to interpretation) based on nothing but thought? I often wonder how life came to be, but if one can believe "God was always there", then I personally can believe "we were always here as is" with the same absurdness that follows.
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do you fucking think I've changed my life around my faith? I haven't so far and that's why I'm studying it more to see if it really is something I should do in life. I'm not a blind believer, I do think about it and analyze it and that's what I'm doing right now to help me make such a great decision. Yes I consider myself a Christian, a follower of Christ, but look at me. I drink, I swear, I'm an asshole all the time, I do shit that profits me before anyone else and I'm just wreckless. I lie all the time, etc etc. So you can shove it before you pass judgments on anyone you label a "Christian."
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You proved a point I was thinking but didn't post, that it's possible to be a total asshole yet somehow end up in "heaven" with a "perfect God". That to me makes absolutely no sense, and always kept my head spinning. Why would God demand we live such a righteous life, yet in the end all you have to do is ask for forgiveness and all is wiped clean anyway? I'd also like someone to answer another thought of mine....
If all deaths are pre-planned by God, and all births are pre-planned, what does that say about murders and rapes? God's "plan" is pretty fucked up in that sense, and YOU (Ryan) have to consider ridiculous things like this before you go giving yourself a bad social label and say you're "christian". Just say you're athiest and move on, it's a lot easier!
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Bad social label?? Yeah because 2billion people in the world is a pretty insignificant number.
I ask you Jimbo. Do you remember a time when you did something bad in life and your dad said "IF YOU DO THAT AGAIN, YOU ARE GROUNDED!" I bet you did it again, and you didn't get grounded. And again and again and possibly still didn't even get grounded. Your father loves you, not for a moment, not only in some situations, but ALWAYS and FOREVER. This is just how God loves. When you sin, you disappoint Him and hurt Him, but His love is without end. One sin doesn't mean you're going to Hell, it just means you will have to accept God's judgment when you die.
Believing in God while having Christian faith play a large part of life while still fucking and swearing and drinking and whatever, knowing that I'll have a chance to get in Heaven if I'm willing to face His judgment sure sounds better than fucking and swearing and drinking and just hoping that there is no Hell to me.
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loool at my pic not getting in the highlights post up there!
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There have been ~90 billion human beings that have ever lived. What % of these people are in heaven and hell. Must be a big place! I hope theres enough food and drink to go around :s oh never mind, jesus can just turn all the water into wine, sorted.
i'm off shopping bye
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As long as he turns me into beer I'm okay with it.
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well it's supposed to be better than anything imagineable so if you want beer, you got beer!
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If Max goes to heaven, he will not care at all about beer. That's what I think, anyway.
Jimbo, Christianity is not a blind faith at all. There's more archeaological evidence pointing to the validity of the New Testament then of ancient works by people such as Plato, Aristotle and Socrates. God allows murders and rapes to happen to people to remind us that we need to depend on him. We deserve far worse then that, and those that are murdered or raped, I venture, have heard of God (or at least seen his handiwork in creation) and had an opportunity to accept or at least find out more about Him.
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"God allows murders and rapes to happen to people to remind us that we need to depend on him." - Thiradell
Yes... just like how he created the millions of exploding suns and collapsed galaxies and our own sun which will eventually die out and probably wipe us all out if we haven't already achieved that through nuclear wars fueled by the disagreement of religious beliefs in the first place. Or we can just commit suicide and go straight to his heavenly kingdom which we know no evidence of other than a blind attraction to anything Faith-based (a flaw in the evolution of the human mind).
I repeat: "God allows murders and rapes to happen to people to remind us that we need to depend on him."
I mean, how selfish do you want to be. That's the most ridiculous assumption, it's like saying, all the pain and suffering is God trying to test us, like the billions of other stars are there for pretty decoration. What intelligent creator (and as you most probably believe, someone/thing with constant and uninterrupted supervision of the planet) would design diseases such as cancer? Give an explanation for that shortcoming of intelligence, other than the predictable; "pain and suffering are all Gods creations to remind us to depend on him." Not only is that belief extremely irrational, but very dangerous, in today's society. Lets imagine in 100 years Islamic fanatics get hold of nuclear weapons and decide to blow up the world. You're belief would be that its God's reminder that we should depend on him" and if so, this God is pretty pathetic.
"Jimbo, Christianity is not a blind faith at all. There's more archeaological evidence pointing to the validity of the New Testament then of ancient works by people such as Plato, Aristotle and Socrates." - Thiradell
Give some archeological evidence pointing to the validity of any God or supernatural creator. I challenge you to come up with some. Religion thrives off the fact that there is none, by taking advantage of peoples conditioned need to believe in something beyond our 'comprehension', hence having faith. Also, isn't it funny that there have been no miracles performed since the time of Jesus? By the way, I'm not saying Jesus didn't exist, I know that's probably most likely true but not 100% verifiable, but the bible itself has no evidence of being the word of the Lord or whatever is claimed. It was written 5 or so generations after the death of Jesus anyway, imagine a game of Chinese whispers going on for 100 years. Extend that for another 2 millenniums through constant changes to the Bible and you have a book whose authenticity is at least questionable to the point of nonexistence.
"We deserve far worse then that, and those that are murdered or raped, I venture, have heard of God (or at least seen his handiwork in creation) and had an opportunity to accept or at least find out more about Him." - Thiradell
For us deserving far worse than that, I would have to argue only some of us deserve to be "murdered and raped". What a sad existence you must live if you believe you are a flawed creation and that you deserve to be punished. Its like you crave a drunken angry father to fill your empty hole.
But just looking at the bigger picture, which I doubt you ever have so focused on your own precious belief, the world is full of completely different religions believing in their own creating God. Why is yours so special and what makes you so sure your correct? Is it because you're frightened of hell, because that would be a pretty contempt way to live? You've probably been brought up by your family or culture to believe it, in which case it was a complete accident of probability that you were born into that belief system.
Jimbo, respect. But there's no point in even trying to argue with these people because Faith is an impenetrable defense mechanism, which disallows logical reasoning and clear thought.
But by this I don't have anything against people who want to believe in a God or any such fantasies, but keep that shit to yourself. And don't start using it as a reason why people shouldn't use contraception, have abortions, sex before marriage, bombing other countries, teaching nonsense creationism at schools instead of scientific fact, the list goes onΓ’β¬Β¦
Ps: not an attack on those of you who are religious, just my (short and honest) view on the whole situation.
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Let us just assume for a moment that God is the almighty, the creator, that he made this earth and is watching us at this very moment. He is watching me, listening to prayers. He is watching when at this moment somewhere on this place somebody get stabbed to death, some lady might get raped, somebody get tortured for information.
God is not intervening? He can intervene, why isn't he doing it? God is a mean kid with a magnifying glass watching a box full with ants burning and having fun. Even if he would exist, there is no way I would wanna submit my life to such a horrible creature. With great power comes great responsibility.
Now, I am a nice guy. I stand up for old ladies in the bus, I rarely swear. I sometimes lie, only when it is to my benefit (like most people do). What is too say that I will not go to heaven? Let me ask you Ryan, what has your God ever done for you? Why can God (or Jezus, whatever) supposedly heal deceases, yet he cannot let amputated legs regrow. Now, science has given us more clarification in the last 2000 years than anything else. Of course science is wrong from time to time, but that is how science works, trial and error.
You cannot bluntly assume that there is a creator because the word is as beautiful as it is at this moment. To be honest, I think we were not even supposed to be here. We are an accident, and the galaxy will find a solution to "cure us" from this planet soon.
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"With great power comes great responsiblity. "
ROFL
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What is ROLF about that?
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It's a quotation from Spiderman.
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Well, it fits nicely in that case ^^.
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Just like the ants-analogy is from Constantine! But I think that's a pretty standard way to describe and explain things.
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Well said Smit. 2008+ years ago there was no science, very little intelligence and not much was known about the world. I can fully understand why people would believe in a god, it would give purpose to their boring lives.
2000 years later we have come a LONG way, and science has come even further. To just deny this 2000 years of progress is not only ignorant, but really worrying.
"God allows murders and rapes to happen to people to remind us that we need to depend on him. " -I this this is an easy thing to say. If (I wouldn't wish this on anyone), a close family member of yours (mother?) was kidnapped, attacked, raped, and nearly beaten to death with extensive brain damage and barely alive. You pray for her every night and a week later she dies, do you still feel the same way about god as before? Serious question.
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tbh God has stopped me from making out with random promiscuous girls and helped me preserve myself. There's really no other explanation for it. Just try explaining all the times I've been with a girl with the blatant opportunity to start something sexual and I've been able to escape it like no other man with a penis could.
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tbh God has stopped me from making out with random promiscuous girls and helped me preserve myself. There's really no other explanation for it. J
And how is that a good thing? Fucking is the best thing on this world. So there will be plenty of it in heaven too (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6)
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tbh God also helped me get Silo A 1:04 which prevented Eise from ever getting another GE WR.
sure sex is good, but not with the right persons, and these girls clearly weren't the right persons.
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having Satan on your side, regardless of being religious or not, is very fucked up imo.
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having Satan on your side, regardless of being religious or not, is very fucked up imo.
I was just trying to be funny. Don't be scared man (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f). I do not believe in any gods, why would I believe in satan?
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because you said you did.
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It would obviously be very tough, l337. I would be angry, I would be very sad, but I don't think it would shake my faith.
Just imagine that you created the whole world and everyone in it. God gives us commands to obey, and we disobey. Again and again and again. We curse His name for being "unjust" when He's actually being constantly merciful by not fully punishing us for all our sins. I realize where you guys are coming from. You've lived your life, and maybe done some bad things, but you think you've lived a pretty good life overall. You think God should let people into heaven because He's loving. And God is. He wants to let us into heaven. But he's also holy, and just, and cannot stand to have unforgiven sin in His presence, so something had to happen for reconciliation. He sent His only Son, Jesus, to die on the cross to take the penalty for our sins, WHILE WE WERE STILL SINNING! He made an incredible sacrifice for the people while most of the people were still blaspheming His name and rejecting Him! He knows not everyone will be saved and there will always be people who curse His name, yet he still gave His Son. God has given us so much.
The archaeological evidence is that there have been far more ancient copies of the New Testament unearthed then there has any other ancient work. You can look up the statistics for yourself, they're true and I don't know how else I can prove it. Facts lend more surplus evidence to the validity of the New Testament. The Gospels were written about 50 years after Jesus' death, eyewitness accounts verify much of the text (i.e. stories told that were written a generation later). Asserting that people who have "faith" ignore facts and provide illogical reasoning and stuff is not a valid point because it's just not true.
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Homeonice...HOW did we come to be?
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dick + pussy?
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...but the FIRST?
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vittu
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The Dead Sea Scrolls are an interesting animal indeed. Thiradell, the biggest reason for your faith is your age, as you grow older and mature you start to realize how silly things seem to be. I was the same way you were. Youth groups used to be coolest thing ever because all the guys our age (at the time anyway) believed hardcore in the same faith we did, but 99% of the kids would grow out of it and lose their faith. It's a common trend that happens for a reason, because we finally have fully formed brain stems and have enough life experience to understand that the idea of the bible is for good, but any god or son of god (who science has proven to exist) is an exaggerated claim to give those people, and us, hope. I was always told to think Jesus would be down with watching a Packer game with me, but no god wants to be an asshole and wants me to use my free time to worship him.
I like your answer of "god uses murders and rapes to show us that we need him". What about the murderers themselves? The hooky bastards clearly don't need god, I mean they're about to kill one of his creations.
Have you ever seen the Simpsons episode of when people could see heaven? Heaven to them was perfection defined in their own eyes, is it a stretch to think that heaven is this way for everyone? "I go to create a place for YOU". Just want your opinion on this one.
Eise Smit said it perfectly, he thinks the way I do; if god WAS proven to exist, I would willfully choose to not worship him because I absolutely hate the idiocy associated with him. He seems to be a greedy, selfish, jealous prick. I would flip god the finger immediately.
These posts are disorganized I know, but I just want to get some thoughts down otherwise I forget them and start to lose interest in this topic.
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I don't know exactly what heaven is going to be like for sure. I just think we'll all be worshipping God and won't desire anything else.
From Romans 1 and 2:
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools...and since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them...do you suppose...that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed."
If you don't understand any part of that, feel free to ask for clarification. God doesn't mind at all if you watch a Packers game, Jimbo, He just asks that you make time (even if it's just a little) specifically for your relationship with Him, as any human would want you to do in a relationship you have with them. I absolutely understand what you say when you mention that He seems to be a greedy, selfish, jealous prick. He is jealous, jealous of us, wanting to claim us for Himself. And He does demand praise, so that that which is truly great may be recognized and glorified.
I don't know the exact answer to the "murderers themselves" question, but perhaps God would ruin the life of that one murdering person in order to save 50 others. "...who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, 'Why have you made me like this?' Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show His wrath and make known His power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy..." Romans 9.
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I try to do the honest and just thing every day of my life. Not because I believe in God or a higher power, but because I believe it would be wrong of me to ask it of anyone else in the world if I don't do it myself.
Bad things happen in this world, I've come to accept that. I don't agree with a lot of things that people do, but if everyone thought the same the world wouldn't be as beautiful as it is. I'm just thankful to be alive and have the ability to experience existence.
When someone gets raped or murdered it is a very sad thing. These terrible events are a part of this world at the moment though, that's just how it is. Maybe one day everyone will be loving and caring but it's certainly not the world you and I live in today. I accept the risks associated with being alive today.
Back to the subject of God.. He does not directly interfere with the choices people make. When He created us he gave us free will. The future is dictacted by the choices we make, and of course by the decisions others make. We are all affected by each other and this can sometimes cause problems, but we as humans are not perfect. But it's these imperfections that make us magical when we do something completely selfless and honorable.
Also, I think anyone who believes that they are wise enough to speak in the place of God and talk as if they know exactly why He created things the way he did need a reality check.
-K..
P.S I don't believe in God.
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He believes in you Karl! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
...and Jimbo too (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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I think most people have heard about this, or have already seen it. Nevertheless, I would suggest everyone to watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/wa...itpys&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD2Hyiitpys&feature=related)
This is how christianity is beeing spread throughout America. By mindfucking little childeren. "its all good because we do it in the name of God". Whoever thinks this is normal, is a twisted man and sick in his head. Little childeren, who are so damn fragile and influenceable are simply beeing talked into this shit. Its nothing more then making people really scared and to mark people with scary things in this life, and then when everybody is at his most fragile point, you quickly say that God will protect you. Ofcourse all those childeren would believe it instantly. Way to spread your word that is about love and caring about other people.
I think Ive lost all last hope that Christianity would do our planet any good after seeing this.
"Harry potter a wizard and shall be put to death". hahahha who is the witch exactly? its a fictional character that gives people lots of enjoyment, nothing more. sick, sick, sick people!
when I thought about this post, I was about to use some argument about "religion beeing the main reason behind most of all the wars that have happened on this earth." that its bringing way more bad to this world than its doing us any good, etc.
well I'm not even going to explain myself about that anymore, because if you see how fucked up some people are because of any religion (not only christianity) I'd say take a good look at what you actually support.
and dont bring me the bullcrap like "yeah its the work of the devil blablabla" because you would be avoiding the real discussion.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU)
Atheist Statistics - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T27kB4BjbEg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T27kB4BjbEg) gogog
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From Romans 1 and 2:
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. I still have no felt a thing so far, for 24 years I have been alive on this planet. Never has God struck me with his wrath. I do not feel incomplete. I feel as complete as any Christian. I have also never been the witniss of anybody being struck by God. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Whatever this may be, he has not shown it too me. For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So he just created the world and not the universe, what is that all about? So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks to Him, You cannot know someone that does not exist, to know somebody, he or she would have to have a personality, and to have that, you need to have a body, this doesn't make sense too me. Why are you sure so sure he is a Man anyway? but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. My heart is full of love for this world, my parents, the nature surrounding me. All the nice friends that I have made. I am gratefull for my parents, to have raised me with an open mind. Claiming to be wise, they became fools...and since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. Not guilty, it makes it seem like all Atheist/Agnostics are supposed to be murderers, rapists. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. This again, is a really funny sentence. I do not hate God (even thought I should, because he is evil), I just don't accept his existence. And surely I am not heartless or disobedient to parents. I was the sweetest kid to raise, I never opened my mouth, never touched a cigarette, never used drugs. All these things might account for some of the Atheist (and probably "Christian" population as well but it is still flawed. Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die ouch, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them...do you suppose...that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed."
All in all, I think this story can be interpreted in a lot of different ways. Whatever suits you I guess.
And Thiradell. You do know that because you wanna believe in this particular God. That you have to disprove the existence of all the other gods ever worshipped by mankind.
Thats thousand of gods, and I am sure you will just say "Yes, but I know I am right.". We used to believe that a god made the sky thunder, because we had no other explanation for it. The answer to the creation of the world will be answered, if you like it or not.
Please give us some facts.
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He will first be REAL in your heart when you are willing to believe. It's YOUR choice to accept Him or reject Him.
Hows bout you show the Christ-followers fact OF any other gods...
*sincerely and hopefully prays for people like this*
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hmm, I guess for that someone must have faith in an another religion to answer/defened/whatever, dunno if we eliters is anything else but "christian" or "dont care".
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He will first be REAL in your heart when you are willing to believe. It's YOUR choice to accept Him or reject Him.
Hows bout you show the Christ-followers fact OF any other gods...
*sincerely and hopefully prays for people like this*
Funny thing, we don't have to do this. There is no way to prove the non existance of somebody or something that does not exist. The burden of proof is on you my friend. You show me FACTS of your god. Even if you manage to do so, I will not be dictated, I am a free soul. I can only hope that you will see the light soon, and will wake up.
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People actually bother to make a discussion about this. Seriously, go do something else with your lives (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148)
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I for one have fulfilled my spiritual, physical and emotional needs by listening to Rudebox.
And yes, I WILL be wearing my knee socks.
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"And Thiradell. You do know that because you wanna believe in this particular God. That you have to disprove the existence of all the other gods ever worshipped by mankind."
"Funny thing, we don't have to do this. There is no way to prove the non existance of somebody or something that does not exist."
Hmm...okay.
Eise, I gave Luke the stats on historical copies of the New Testament. Jesus' life on earth fulfilled about 1,100 prophecies of the Old Testament as well.
Not all the things in that list of sins apply to everyone, but everyone does some of it, even if not constantly or consistently. You have done it at some point. It does not make it sound like atheists/agnostics have to be murderers or rapists, murder is one thing in that list of five at the start, along with such as envy, strife and deceit.
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I for one have fulfilled my spiritual, physical and emotional needs by listening to Rudebox.
And yes, I WILL be wearing my knee socks.
I'm a recent "convert" if you may to this spirituality.
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"People actually bother to make a discussion about this. Seriously, go do something else with your lives "
i know you made this statement humorously, but i feel it necessary to keep an interest in and comment on this topic because it means a lot to me. I was born into a strongly catholic family (my dad less so), and had to find the answers i was looking for, those which religion failed to explain to me myself, with the help of outside influences, teachers and friends.
I would like to make a point also. Isn't the majesty of the universe and everything that makes up our beautiful planet made so much richer when we look at it through the perspective of science - the intricacies, patterns and harmony of nature, the vastly majestic, infinitely deep expanse of space and the complex biological workings of ours and all the other fascinating species. Rather than worshiping a God who condemns anyone who does not frequently express their Belief for him/herself/itself, while making itself known by a filthy sacrifice on the top of a hill in the presence of illiterate peasants. God gave us so much, he even gave us jaws too small to house our back teeth, he gave us eyes which often need to be corrected by glasses and even us males were designed with nipples. Any architect/ Engineer can see the shortcomings in the 'design' of our species, and thats without looking into the animal kingdom or let alone the universe as a whole.
Some designer...
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...but the FIRST?
I always wonder how the first std awakened. they say you get it through sex, but if that's how it started then it wouldn't have existed. so there's another way to get an std, but they aren't learning us what those are, and thus we are still vulnerable.
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Actually, I meant that it seems that people still try to convince others of their own world-perspectives or how they see life or the justification of living a way they prefer. I'm only saying that it's not worthwile to discuss the existence of God. Believers say he exists and others say he doesn't, and there is no one who can convince the other.. ever.
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Sometimes the point of talking is not just to convince someone of something.
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Great point Karl...
...it's to point them in the right direction (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=JJxCFa8YmbQ (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=JJxCFa8YmbQ)
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LMAO
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that guy sounded black. He is by no way a legitimate representation of humanity.
I am impressed at how poorly he understood what others were saying and how bad he was at combining concepts to make new thoughts, which was clearly visible in this 2 minute clip. I'm really glad to not have the intelligence of that guy.
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for those of us that DO believe in God and in the fact that He hears our prayers, please pray for Rayan and the current situaition in his homeland. things arent looking too good over there...
if you read this Ace, know that there are those of us that are lifting you up to Christ through our petitions, peace and love brotha
http://news.yahoo.com/s/c...20081001/wl_c...opakviews (http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20081001/wl_csm/opakviews)
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tbqh I wouldn't mind praying he suffers an injury or experience that doesn't affect him in any other way than him not being able to play GE again. And in more honesty if I was a soldier over there and shit got real I wouldn't really hesitate to smack up some of his Allah lovin' brothers' asses, M16 style.
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hmmm...instead it might be more worthwhile to pray that he (Rayan) might see and turn to Christ in these times...
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interesting point there Shawn, definitely was not something I would have thought of but certainly worthwhile.
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what you said WAS funny, but only in a joking sort of way... (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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Pray; Lasgo will sing.
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HA!
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no they wont evi goffen left the band...
...or so i heard (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
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that guy sounded black. He is by no way a legitimate representation of humanity.
I am impressed at how poorly he understood what others were saying and how bad he was at combining concepts to make new thoughts, which was clearly visible in this 2 minute clip. I'm really glad to not have the intelligence of that guy.
I am scared to hear you say this Ryan. That guy sounded black so he has no credibility and cannot call himself a real Christian? Black people are not humans? Aren't we all creatures from God? For a Christian you sure have a lot of anger towards other people man. It just shows what a narrow minded thinker you really are man. I really do not like to read this kind of posts in a topic that is meant to be about religion. Surely you can agree with me that every Christian finds their God in their own way.
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I wonder what god thinks about Ryan's crazy night.
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I think it goes on the Minus list below average goldeneye player (thats a sin)
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Why so serious?
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omg Eise why u so nasty (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6) !
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I just don't like racism.
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Rofl at serious reply (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332)
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Eise, dumb people can't be considered human since it is intelligence and knowledge that makes people what we consider "human."
the fact he was probably black is just a small discrepancy you can make silly jokes about (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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Eise, dumb people can't be considered human since it is intelligence and knowledge that makes people what we consider "human."
the fact he was probably black is just a small discrepancy you can make silly jokes about (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
So, how would you have answered the questions the people asked.
Do you believe in unicorns and if you don't. Why not?
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Eise is hoping for a reply "I don't believe in unicorns, because I have never seen one" so that Eise can consequently say "Same with God!"
This is moronic.
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I've never seen Eise's cock so how do I know it exists (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
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Dear Lord...
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3 more retarded posts in this topic and it gets locked.
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Eise, I agree that it is very questionable God exists, because lots of shit does randomly happen. But having faith in itself is what is so beautiful about believing in God.
sure I believe unicorns exist. What is there to disprove they exist? I've never seen one but no one has done anything to convince me that they do not exist...
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Come starts with the first one. Two more?
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tbqh I've heard of people having sex, and seen videos of it, but I've personally never experienced sex, so how do I know it exists? In fact, sex seems so impossible for me to experience so I will assume it is impossible and simply does not exist.
I have on the other hand experienced God, or at least something I will consider God, so therefore God exists.
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Ryan has brought up a salient point about what is possible to believe outside of our own existence. I direct you to this highly informative debate on youtube:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xUG650sp7Dg (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xUG650sp7Dg)
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Dear Lord, you've done took so many of my people I'm just wonderin' why
You haven't taken my life?
Like what the hell am I doing right?
~Lil Wayne
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Wow, quite the lyric there. Maybe Lil Wayne has a brighter future then I thought.
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lol Tyler. He's one of two people to ever sell over 1million copies of an album in it's opening week. I'd say he has a pretty good career (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148)
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Come starts with the first one. Two more?
HAHAHA
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did you read any of my posts Eise?
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Yeh I saw your posts. You are not really clear though, how did you experience God? If you experienced god by experiencing something you cannot explain with the knowledge you have in your brain everybody would be able to find God. There is no proof for a god. Sure you can say that he exists, but that does not give me anything does it?
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no, there's no way to prove or disprove God. That is why there is so much discussion on whether or not God exists. He either exists or not depending on what you choose to believe. It's all in the eye of the beholder.
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So, you are admitting there could be another way the world was created?
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LOL Tyler...
...but what does selling a million albums have to do with anything on the spiritual side of things? i doubt very much that selling albums will bring him the forgiveness he needs to experience from God...infact i know it wont because thats what the bible says and i believe the bible 100%.
...as ive said before and continue to believe is this...those of you that choose to not accept the Lord as Savior in your hearts do so willingly. and that until He reaches down and touches you spiritually (again, you must ASK and DESIRE for Him to), you will go on ignorantly and blindly, believing in yourselves as the highest form of existence and will remain without that which you need the most, Jesus Christ
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(to Eise's post about Shawn's)
Of course, but there are many Christians who unfortunately aren't open to this possibility. I believe that almost anything is at least within the realm of possibility.
The way I believe it, is that God created everything, and let it be, or in other words, let science take over. But since God made this world, he technically made science, so everything that happens is essentially because of God.
I also believe in Divine Intervention, if you've ever seen Pulp Fiction you know what I'm talking about. When something happens on Earth that is so inexplicable some say "only God could have done that." Of course, it COULD have been random chance, but I think believing God did it is much more beautiful.
Also, it's not like I change my lifestyle to fit those of a perfect Christian. I realize, and my God realizes that all humans sin. I am willing to face God's judgment when I die (if this is actually what happens) and so I continue to lead my life the way I do.
The quote in my signature sums up how I feel quite well. Faithful but intrigued and interested in why God works the way He does. If there is no God, then so be it, I just feel it's beautiful to believe (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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LOL Tyler...
...but what does selling a million albums have to do with anything on the spiritual side of things?
Nothing, but it has to do with his bright future in the music industry...
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music industry...oh, ok (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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LOL Tyler...
...but what does selling a million albums have to do with anything on the spiritual side of things? i doubt very much that selling albums will bring him the forgiveness he needs to experience from God...infact i know it wont because thats what the bible says and i believe the bible 100%.
...as ive said before and continue to believe is this...those of you that choose to not accept the Lord as Savior in your hearts do so willingly. and that until He reaches down and touches you spiritually (again, you must ASK and DESIRE for Him to), you will go on ignorantly and blindly, believing in yourselves as the highest form of existence and will remain without that which you need the most, Jesus Christ
What does this reduce us to? Incomplete humans? We miss something? The joy and happiness of a Christian? So God exists in a material way? Are we not the highest life form on this planet? The way the ladder works is, you kill and eat the ones weaker than you (that is nature, that is design) and humans do that.
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actually that was darwin's WEAK theory (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
...also the nazi's (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
and YES!!! we are ALL incomplete without Christ, because we were designed to have a perfect relationship with Him and by Him
and what do you mean by "highest" life form on this planet?
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Highest form of life means the most evolved (at least, most of us), where does the need to believe in a supreme being come from? That is the only questions I need answered. I have never needed to rely on such faith because I can handle things on my own, without saying, that is the way God planned it. Or God has a way for everybody etc. I just don't get it. I don't think I am designed to have a relationship with It (him or her).
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all you really need to believe in is yourself.
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Wouter, you are completely right! It's also just looooovely if others believe in you. Like, I believe in Wouter, Ryan etc.
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Smitty, you can "handle" things yourself eh?
What CAN you handle?
If a band of hooligans busted down your door and came to pillage, rape and or plunder you and your household, how exactly would you "handle" it?
Or if you were smitten with incureable boils from head to toe, how would you "handle" it?
Could you do anything you wanted to?
WOW! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Feek.gif&hash=5fc5b032ffecc0869b61bad31bcee959c46eea9d) that's some pretty small thinking... (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
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I can handle din mor
pwnd
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Agd.
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Wouter gets the point (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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Smitty, you can "handle" things yourself eh?
What CAN you handle?
If a band of hooligans busted down your door and came to pillage, rape and or plunder you and your household, how exactly would you "handle" it?
Or if you were smitten with incureable boils from head to toe, how would you "handle" it?
Could you do anything you wanted to?
WOW! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Feek.gif&hash=5fc5b032ffecc0869b61bad31bcee959c46eea9d) that's some pretty small thinking... (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
tbqh God doesn't stop pillages. They happen all the time, even to believe who believe in God.
Same with boils.
and I'm a firm believer that humans can do almost everything the want, at some point in humanity.
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"If a band of hooligans busted down your door and came to pillage, rape and or plunder you and your household, how exactly would you "handle" it?"
By shooting them! Or calling the cops if your friendly! Hide in the toilet! Hide in din mors pussy!
What a ridic example, afan.
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Amazing!
"i can handle it!"
"WOW!"
um, ok (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
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the point is Shawn, believing in God won't protect you from that shit.
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it wont protect you from anything but a car accident somewhere on sunday morning cause then you're sitting in church
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I have proof evolution is real. http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHLlH77Hpac (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHLlH77Hpac)
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what i said didnt come across the way i intended, but Eise, you said that you could handle anything. my thought was more sure there isnt much to do under "big" circumstances or events, but if we have evolved to the highest life form, then why can we not make the weather we desire or make anything grow (without the elements already given, seeds, etc.) why can we not feel happy 100% of the time if we want to? why can you not control any of those things? because you didnt design yourself or evolve from something else. and if you did, then from what? what were you right before you changed yourself into you? and IF you or anyone else evolved, as evolutionists put it, then why arent you still evolving today? have we (mankind) reached the pinnachle (spl?) of our own existence? if so then why are there still problems etc. if not then why arent we still evolving to make ourselves better?
no my friend, these are matters far bigger than you or i could ever control or decide. we are better off leaving them in far more capable hands. then hands of the God that created us and that has a plan far greater than you could ever imagine... btw Odin, that was funny (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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what i said didnt come across the way i intended, but Eise, you said that you could handle anything. With handle I mean, I can get over deaths in my family, losing pets, bad things in life without saying "God must have meant it this way, so it's ok." my thought was more sure there isnt much to do under "big" circumstances or events, but if we have evolved to the highest life form. then why can we not make the weather we desire or make anything grow (without the elements already given, seeds, etc.) why can we not feel happy 100% of the time if we want to? what i said didnt come across the way i intended, but Eise, you said that you could handle anything. my thought was more sure there isnt much to do under "big" circumstances or events, but if we have evolved to the highest life form, then why can we not make the weather we desire or make anything grow (without the elements already given, seeds, etc.) why can we not feel happy 100% of the time if we want to? why can you not control any of those things? because you didnt design yourself or evolve from something else. and if you did, then from what? what were you right before you changed yourself into you? and IF you or anyone else evolved, as evolutionists put it, then why arent you still evolving today? Because we do not need too, we adapted to the climate, we will evolve again later though. You never seen Waterworld? have we (mankind) reached the pinnachle (spl?) of our own existence? if so then why are there still problems etc. if not then why arent we still evolving to make ourselves better? Humans are by no means perfect, as a matter a fact, if a designer left us in this broken/confused/deluded state, he must be the WORST designer ever. Where can I report my bugs? Just look at Ryan White if you want proof on how broken mankind really is. I wanna have telephatic abilities at LEAST. Please tell us god has more plans for us (in this life)?
no my friend, these are matters far bigger than you or i could ever control or decide. we are better off leaving them in far more capable hands. then hands of the God that created us and that has a plan far greater than you could ever imagine... btw Odin, that was funny (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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What the Hell kind of personal attack was that? I'm happy with who I am, and I'm better than 90% of you n00bs. Shove it Eise. You're just a Dutch loser who will be stoned his whole life.
I don't have 99 problems, but a bitch is at least one.
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Waterworld huh? If you are even remotely basing your existence off of Waterworld than i suppose there isn't much else to be said at this point other than i hope that that works out for you, i guess...
...and the whole using Ryan as an example of what's wrong with the world was pretty weak too. Sure, he seems to do a lot of stupid stuff (at least he ADMITS to,) but he remains accountable to God, just like we all WILL be, whether we think so or not and he has expressed some sort of knowledge about God's judgement and he seems also to be aware that he will have to face this judgement.
What's SO WONDERFUL about the plan that God the Father has set forth is that by believing in Jesus Christ as your PERSONAL Savior and WILLINGLY turning from your sin and trying to please God whilst still here on earth, your judgement WILL be 100% pardoned and the punishment that is due for our sin will be forgotten by God! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6) Again, to me, that is FAR GREATERthan anything we humans could have ever come up with or accomplished. But God bless you and like some of the others like Karl and Jimbo, i hope that God would reveal Himself to you in a way that would be undeniable and life-changing...
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Waterworld huh? If you are even remotely basing your existence off of Waterworld than i suppose there isn't much else to be said at this point other than i hope that that works out for you, i guess...
...and the whole using Ryan as an example of what's wrong with the world was pretty weak too. Sure, he seems to do a lot of stupid stuff (at least he ADMITS to,) but he remains accountable to God, just like we all WILL be, whether we think so or not and he has expressed some sort of knowledge about God's judgement and he seems also to be aware that he will have to face this judgement. besides...can you HONESTLY say that you are BETTER than he? if so, what is your frame of reference? what do you base good off of? we ALL fall short of the glory of God.
What's SO WONDERFUL about the plan that God the Father has set forth is that by believing in Jesus Christ as your PERSONAL Savior and WILLINGLY turning from your sin and trying to please God whilst still here on earth, your judgement WILL be 100% pardoned and the punishment that is due for our sin will be forgotten by God! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6) Again, to me, that is FAR GREATER than anything we humans could have ever come up with or accomplished. But God bless you and like some of the others like Karl and Jimbo, i hope that God would reveal Himself to you in a way that would be undeniable and life-changing...
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"Because we do not need too, we adapted to the climate, we will evolve again later though."
BREAKING NEWS:
http://www.nu.nl/news/178..._verder_evolueren%27.html (http://www.nu.nl/news/1780167/91/%27Mens_zal_niet_verder_evolueren%27.html)
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6) !!
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I once saw this debate on youtube about whether or not people would be able to adapt to global warming (whether natural or human catalyzed,) another ice age or whatever, and the basic consensus was that say, if it got warmer, people from the equatorial regions would move north or south towards the poles. That is why it's important for Canada to protect it's northern border, since in some years people will be trying to invade here or immigrate illegally or whatever. Russia, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Greenland, US (Alaska) and other countries like this should also be cautious about what will happen soon. Weirdly, there aren't countries close to the south pole, rather Antarctica exists.
Anyways, to watch the debate click here: http://www.youtube.com/wa...pR6Kf0meI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7pR6Kf0meI&feature=related)
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But God bless you and like some of the others like Karl and Jimbo, i hope that God would reveal Himself to you in a way that would be undeniable and life-changing...
The only way I'm going to believe in God is when he actually appears and says "Yo it's me God lol".
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btw sorry for the double post, computer froze up! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fmad.gif&hash=a7d299cdc47984306fa32671e3a59bcf63c85b4c)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMpk7WerFWw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMpk7WerFWw)
its long, but if youre gonna hold to evolution, then at least hear the other side. this makes evolution look so dumb. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Flaugh.gif&hash=657f1346088ce2081c398c7379c3a47e4cf5861b)
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Hovind is not a credible source.
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Watched the first 16 minutes but then Wizards of Waverly Place came on so I had to stop. I intend on watching the full thing. From the initial 16 minutes Kent Hovind really brought up loads of interesting questions about the evolution theory and whether or not it should be taught.
I've always told people that "atheism" in some way or another is like a religion. This debate is very intriguing.
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durk-if it helps you out, dont pay attention to hovind, just listen to what is being said. anyone could be speaking, so just pay attention to it.
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lol Kent Hovind's wiki article mentions him being incarcerated pretty much everywhere and has terrible wiki format. People (atheists) totally abuse it to make him look stupid thus levering advantage against his arguments. Typical from the nature of those kinds of people though.
There might be some truth to without religion there are no morals (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsick.gif&hash=147d83ab69333060437ede2e0058676600b3ea8c)
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true indeed Goose. he HAS done wrong, just proving the point that everyone screws up. but there is absolutely NO denying what he presents in his debates about and for Christianity. the guy makes every evolutionist look moronic and foolish. and what's even better is that all he uses is the bible...
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he actually uses a lot of scientific fact, not just the Bible. But using scientific fact to disprove other scientific theories is certainly very strong.
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i believe the "scientific fact" that he uses he very frequently ties back to the bible (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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And see, I thought Hovind made all creationists look moronic and foolish. To-may-to, to-mah-to.
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I dont really like to describe myself as an athiest, as i feel it is kind of a trend and yeah, in a way is like a religion, so mostly I would say i am agnostic. Basically, I have seen nothing to make me believe there is a god, but at the same time I cant say there is none, because I dont know, and until I die or whatever, theres no way i can ever know.
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lol @ Clemens not wanting to be atheist because it's so "mainstream" these days (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6)
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Grats Clems...you're further along then some are...
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Atheism, as an explicit position, can be either the affirmation of the nonexistence of gods,[1] or the rejection of theism.[2] It is also[3] defined more broadly as synonymous with any form of nontheism, including the simple absence of belief in deities.
Everybody denies the existence of at least one God, so in a way we are all atheists. Don't be shy Clemens, you should be proud to be an Atheist.
And disproving one thing does not mean that your other thing has to be true?
THIS WORLD WORKS THE SAME EVEN WITHOUT A GOD, in the ancient times people had to rip open a human chest and rip out a heart to make sure (they thought at least) that the sun would rise. Nobody does that anymore. Thor used to make thunder, we found an explination for that, so that God disappeared over time.
Not believing in a God is the only thing that Atheists have in common, we do not go to church, we do not huddle up to talk about it, we have no rules, written or unwritten on the way we should live our life. We are just humans, we are normal. Released from the dictatorship, detached from the brain controlling hive, be proud of your own intelligence people, think for yourself, put the facts straight and think deeply about it. Why doesn't God cure deceases? Why can he apparently heal blind people, but not heal blindness, why can't he heal people who had amputated limbs? Why did he create the rest of the universe?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=200qAsgpfwU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=200qAsgpfwU)
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eise's my hero....and by hero I mean he says everything I'm thinking, but can't word as well.
I watched 20minutes of that hovind video then realised it was trying to do exactly what christianity does = brainwash the viewer. I turned it off and watched a documentary on marmite changing to squeezy bottles.
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I love it how many people think the evolution theory states that we evolved from apes or monkeys, which it doesn't btw.
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I love it how many people think the evolution theory states that we evolved from apes or monkeys, which it doesn't btw.
... yes it does. In fact we evolved from primordial soup which was essentially a group of chemicals sitting around. The first "life" was apparently these weird... things, they looked kind of like fat dildos. I have no idea how they reproduced or were susceptible to natural selection, but hey, that's why evolution theory is just as faith based as creationism.
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FAT DILDO'S!?!?!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332)
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Nah, it just states that we have a common ancestor, which is completely different than that we evolved from a bunch of monkeys.
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See, religious people don't bug me. Not fully trusting evolution doesn't bug me - its a hard concept to grasp. But science is based not on observation and inference, but on using valid tests to confirm hypothesis without unreasonable doubt. The earth and this universe *is* billions of years old, and evolution or not, denying the overwhelming evidence for that in favor of "the bible" is ridiculous. Why can nobody accept that the bible was written during a time without science? The future advancements of mankind were not known, and basically everything people of this time have thought to be true have been proven wrong. Sure, we may be proven wrong as well in 2,000 years, but for those who wrote the bible - they've ALREADY been proven wrong.
The advancements of science and technology have simply made religious claims look silly in the eyes of 99.9% of intelligent people in the world. You say we aren't looking hard enough for God, or the evidence of creationism. I'm sorry, but you shouldn't have to look so damn hard for evidence when there are millions and millions of pages and thousands of theoretical papers written and verified over hundreds of years by people FAR more intelligent than any of us that shows otherwise. You give an example of some moron on youtube, and for every one of those there are probably 10,000 people with better theories about the age of the earth.
Personally, I trust the people who build the skyscrapers to withstand the elements, the bridges, the cars, the space shuttles and astronaut suits, the submarines, the people who have spent their life in geology studying the age of rocks, those who split atoms, have spent their life looking at animal and plant biology, people in gene therapy who have confirmed the ability the alter ones genetic makeup, make our airplanes fly, create artificial organs, have robots doing our work, create telescopes to peer into the distant space, the thousands of distance-algorithms from these findings to see how far away objects are in space, people confirmed the expansion of the universe, etc., etc., etc., etc., and hey.. they're the people who will tell you, science says the universe is billions of years old, the earth is billions of years old, microevolution can be SEEN, and our people evolved, are continueing to evolve, and there will be a day humans cease to exist.
You can backfire and say history shows scientists have been wrong. But I'm sorry, we've proven people wrong who could hardly figure out how to use a wheel, thought the earth was flat, etc. We have REFINED their theories, and even if people look back on us as idiots, we're still a hell of a lot farther ahead of "the bible" right now.
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monkeys have evolved a TON since we split from the, as redbull said, common ancestor. Making connections between CURRENT DAY humans and CURRENT DAY monkeys is not valid whatsoever. Both species have undergone so many changes that of course there are vast differences. Why would, if we evolved from monkeys, monkeys.. still be the same? Lol. Anybody who says "evolutions is dumb, no way did we evolve from monkeys" has no idea anything about evolution.
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*wipes the tears from my eyes*
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332)
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I knew I could convince you! Phew, one down, a billion to go. Oh wait, religion tries to pull people in and ends up creating huge wars, not the other way around! Silly me.. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f)
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Genious...pure genious...
*goes to take advil from pounding headache*
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6) youre right, The Truth will always separate people and likely end up causing wars and what not, simply proving man's sin is a HUGE problem and that we cannot fix our mess by ourselves (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f)
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Fact is science has disproven many accepted beliefs, whether they be religious or otherwise.
I personally would love to see the day science can fully explain the creation of the universe, or whether or not there is just that, the universe. This day likely won't come in my lifetime, but it would be incredible to know exactly what science finds to be the solid, truthful answer to the greatest question ever posed by mankind.
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It's been answered for nearly 2000 years-Jesus Christ is The Truth, The Light and The Way. For me and those who believe as i do there is nothing else!
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yeah but I'd still like to see whatever science finds as fact and is taught in school textbooks and all that. I'm sure it would be a pretty interesting hypothesis.
No need to be so closed minded Shawn. We can all believe in one thing and still read about or look at other things, if for nothing else, for the sake of them being interesting and gaining knowledge.
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seek, and you will find... (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6)
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It's been answered for nearly 2000 years-Jesus Christ is The Truth, The Light and The Way. For me and those who believe as i do there is nothing else!
This, and only this is why we are still stuck on this planet. For you there is nothing more to explore, you know your way of living. The rest of the people, who want actual answers (and not a made up one), try to find that. If I believe a bread toaster created the universe it stops me from looking the truth for I have already found the answer inside my heart. Great scientists are people who wanna find answers, we should give credit to those people because mankind would not have been able to survive this long without them. They cured deceases, they extended the life of mankind with more than 60 years. If anything you should worship them (that would make sense), you should worship your parents for giving you life, and you have an obligatation to them to make something of your life and search for real answers.
Please wake up, detach yourself from the hive and become one with your soul, break free from the connection that is holding you back, see the bigger picture and it will all be clear to you. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
Amen,
Yours truly,
Rabbi Smit
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lay off the weed, rabbi (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
Napoleon Bonaparte
"Calling Atheism a religion, is like calling 'bald' a hair color."
Don Hirschberg
This last quotaton without a name sums it all up perfectly,
"An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An Atheist knows that heaven is something for which we should work now - here on earth - for all men together to enjoy. An Atheist thinks that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue, and enjoy it. An Atheist thinks that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment. Therefore, he seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An Atheist knows that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist knows that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man. He wants an ethical way of life. He knows that we cannot rely on a god nor channel action into prayer nor hope for an end to troubles in the hereafter. He knows that we are our brother's keeper and keepers of our lives; that we are responsible persons, that the job is here and the time is now."
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That's a really good quote.
Goose, science will never KNOW about the creation of the universe. They simply have hypothesis which are tested by more and more accurate, reliable methods. It was only in what, '92, that they figured out the universe was actually ACCELERATING outward. These come by looking at the intensity of various wavelengths of light coming from far distant supernovas that shine brighter than galaxies to gauge distance, etc. The advancements in science make more measurements possible (who could even measure light wavelengths more than decades ago?). What is that huge thing in Europe that is opening up? Supposed to shed major light on what happened in the first moments after the creation of the universe.
Scientists do have facts to rely on, such as behavior under certain conditions - what does matter do at 300 billion pounds per square inch, or at 10 million degrees C? People who don't know better say "they can't know" but that's just retarded. What we don't know is how to measure density and temperature of objects really far away - but they are getting better and more reliable. The fact is, these sort of things will never be measurable to exact degree, really. For that reason, the universe can never be KNOWN, and is a major reason, in my opinion, that science will never put away religion for good. I do think, however, that if you came back in another 2,000 years religion will be much different.
Why can a religious person not accept differences from the Bible? Sure, you aren't exactly a christian, by definition, but so what? There are many variations today that believe in evolution, etc., and many other deviations from the Bible while still believing in a God. And who is to say they are wrong, or it is a different God? That's just ignorant, because if you're saying that, other people are saying it right back at you in other religions. It is completely stupid to assume you are right and they are wrong, despite them having the exact same angle on you. Religion is faith, and as it becomes harder for educated people to grasp what the Bible says in complete truth, I think those who need a faith and a God in their life will turn to new religions.
My mom, for example, believes in evolution, the age of the universe, completely supports abortion and gay rights, etc., but prays and asks others to pray for her. It pains to me say I don't know how much longer she mighth ave left and who the fuck are you to say she doesn't believe the right thing? If prayer and asking others who believe in a God to pray for her helps her live her life better, who are you to say she's going to hell because she's not a "real christian" or whatever. That is just third world thought to me.
That is why I think the growing acceptance of other ways of thought, religion, the advancements in science, etc., will bury what in my opinion is the pure ignorance of strict religious fanatics. People will continue to fall on faith for help, salvation, etc., but I honestly think if you came back to this planet in 2,000 years, or even 500 years, things would be much, much different.
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lot of jargon, mate. NOT a lot of wisdom though.
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Feyes.gif&hash=332c6dfb5489a00ccf0ea41c1466df8bbde388d9)
i hope your mom gets better though. sorry to hear about it.
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Hmm...maybe some of you (octo, eise, Mark) should watch the Kent Hovind video, and tell me he doesn't make a lot of very good points. Instead of disregarding it as saying he's trying to brainwash people (he says from the beginning he loves science and he's not against science because he knows a ton of people are going to say this), consider what he has to say. octo, there is no evidence that the earth is billions of years old. If you'd like to provide some, go right ahead. I'll try to debunk it as best I can. I'd also like to hear what anyone has to say about the tons of historical copies of the New Testament, verifying its validity and truthfulness. Jesus' life fulfilled 1,091 Old Testament prophecies and such. The incredible order of the world (water cycle, DNA, etc.) cannot be realistically explained by random chance. There is no proof that life has come from non-life, focused efforts by scientists in laboratories have not accomplished this, yet the theory of evolution depends on random chance causing it to happen. This is outrageous to accept as anything scientifically possible. There IS a lot of hard evidence for the truthfulness of the Bible.
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Corruption is our real enemy. Some courts as well as other people won't even consider DNA evidence and/or mathematical models to prove points. It's hard to find the truth knowing humanity suppresses evidence and obstructs justice.
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A lot of jargon? Not a lot of wisdom? I guess thats how it may come across if I know more about something than you, or you just don't want to hear what I have to say. That's okay, though, back out of this worthless topic, had a place to rant!
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Well I am just saying that its too easy to just call yourself an athiest without thinking about it, you need to be open to the possibility that God could exist, even if you dont think he does. I personally dont think he does, but since I can never know , I cant say that I am for sure an athiest.
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Ok then, who is behind God? If it's ok to say God doesn't need a beginning then it's equally ok to say the universe doesn't need a beginning.
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God is beyond time, space and matter, whereas the universe is not beyond space (length, height, width, not outer space.)
and since you cannot have time without space or matter, and need all 3 to exist at the same time, the universe is reliant on all 3.
God by definition is beyond these things.
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God is beyond time, space and matter, whereas the universe is not beyond space (length, height, width, not outer space.)
and since you cannot have time without space or matter, and need all 3 to exist at the same time, the universe is reliant on all 3.
God by definition is beyond these things.
Damn, I should really read the bible (in a good way) so I can comment on this kind of crap.
Isn't the universive infinitive? No end, no beginning?
@Clemens, trust me mate. I have thought about it for 6 long years, trying to find out what I am supposed to do to on this planet. I looked at a ton of religious books with an open mind to determine which one would give me a satisfacory explanation too the questions I was asking. Why am I here? What am I supposed to do here? None of the books I checked have given me a clear answer on this queston. So, I decided to live my life, take the problems I encounter on the way as they are and think logically and realistic. Giving out as much love and compassion as possible to the people who around me who treat me the same way. If any of that means I am an atheist, so be it. I have no problem with it and neither should everyone else.
@octo thanks for your input mate ^^
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If God is beyond time, space and matter, then why should we care about him?
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If God is beyond time, space and matter, then why should we care about him?
Probably something about being gratefull to your creator, after all, he is the one who gave you life. You are here because of him.
I still wonder what inspired him to make the world though, was it a school project?
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I am grateful to my parents because I know they created me.
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lol @ people trying to defend Hovind.
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lol @ durk's post in the favorite bond films. One of the funniest posts I've ever seen on the boards, if not the funniest. Remember it went like this:
1. Rudebox
20. why u so nasty
In conclusion, Durk is my new God.
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lol Thiradell, there are calculations where a pretty solid estimate is being made on how old the universe is. Forgot most of the procedure, but I guess it's not very interesting to tell you about it even if I had remembered it. Just has to do with expansion speed etc. well anyway, believe what you wanna believe (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148)
Personally I don't see the big problem of science and religion going hand in hand, but yeah, some thing are complicated to explain. I mean, I'm pretty sure there are religious physics scientists. That has probably something to do with the many interpretations possible by reading the bible, and that is something what is so screwed about it. People are talking about different religions, but just look at how many different religious groups have evolved from the bible alone.
Anyway, I just woke up, so just hoping I'm making a bit sense here. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148)
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http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/ (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/)
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I'm wondering why this debate is going. It's like you argue one segment at a time keeping it going in circles without a real resolution. Well, to put an end to it, what will it take to convince you otherwise? What it will take is for you to open your mind to either possiblity and not take one side of the argument.
If you believe one idea to be more important than the other then you are bias. So something exists if it has unbias characteristics. Timelessness doesn't cout because it has to be something we can see and possibly touch. And to say something is boundless, timeless, neato, whatever is an 'opinion', not a fact. Although science doesn't have all the answers right now, it's the best reference to what we can discover.
You have to accept the possiblity not everyone agrees with you. To make it worse, there's some who don't believe even if you are right. They either don't know any better or what you should expect 'corrupt.'
If this isn't enought to convince you I point again to all the criminals the state had to prosecute this year because they felt they needed to be bad. And thanks for listening to me.
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Psalm 1:1-3 - Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers. But his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on his law he meditates day and night. He is like a tree planted by the streams of water, which yields its fruit in due season and whose leaf does not wither. Whatever he does prospers.
vs. 4,5 - Not so the wicked! They are like chaff that the wind blows away. Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgement, nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.
vs. 6 - For the Lord watches over the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked will perish.
my sincerest hope and prayer is that the wise will read this and contemplate it and search it out.
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Ezekiel 25:17
Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.
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i was being serious, not quoting pulp fiction... (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148)
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but quoting Pulp Fiction is so much more badass.
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Proverbs 10:11
The mouth of the righteous is a fountain of life, but violence overwhelms the mouth of the wicked.
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Max 1:1
Shut the fuck up afan and go away.
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Robbie 24:7
Why u so nasty (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6) ?
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oh my fucking God durk that was incredible (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6):D:D:D:D:D:rollin:hat
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And your idea is so undisputable that there's no reason to have this debate. I suppose there's a reason it's being disputed in the first place? Now why do some ones I know need to ask for proof calls?
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Question for Shawn:
Do you believe in life of any form, anywhere in the Universe outside Earth? Why/Why Not?
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what do you mean when you say "lifeform?"
interesting question though...
hard to say. i do believe in angels, but whether or not you consider them lifeforms is debatable...
if you mean like aliens or things along those lines, well all i can say is that BIBLICALLY i dont really see a purpose for their existence, but i cannot wholly put the idea away and dismiss it as rubbish.
but i guess my best answer goes something like this...i cant really see any reason or purpose for other lifeforms out in the universe if we cant communicate with them and share the Good News of Christ, so i would lean on NOT believing in "aliens" at least, though i couldnt be dogmatic about it (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f)
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I obviously meant Aliens and the like, not Angels, since Angels can "live" on Earth.
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i suppose my answer still stands though...
Goose, you should check out some studies on extra-terrestrial life by a fellow named Chuck Missler! VERY FASCINATING!!
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Hey Afan, what if they decide to shrink you with their superior powers because you didn't believe in Kodo's smelly feet?
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then i better get ready for...
...nevermind...
*goes and plays GE*
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Hey Shawn, god thinks you're retarded, and that you suck at GE!
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you scared there big, er, normal-sized fella that im gonna be the next one to pass you in the rankings AND smash you into the ground at multi WHEN we play?
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f)
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as continued from my ideas posted over on one of those porno threads...
...Proverbs 6:25-28
Do not lust in your heart after her beauty or let her captivate you with her eyes, for the prostitute reduces you to a loaf of bread, and the adulteress preys upon your very life. Can a man scoop fire into his lap without his clothes being burned? Can a man walk on hot coals without his feet being scorched?
the principle is to stay clear of such things as pornography or the proverbial prostitutes so as to keep YOURSELF from harm! she is more dangerous than literally playing with fire! at least that's what the Bible says. take it for what it's worth or however you wish, but you cannot deny that that's what it says (New International Version)
man, i'm REALLY trying to help here (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
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Oooooooh fuuuuuck, ban imo ^
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why? is there a problem with me speaking my religious beliefs in the religion thread?
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Yeah, you're a fag.
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porn rules..
religion.. has stupid rules
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Wow, so Ryan posted some porno on an internet message board, and you decide to try and 'correct' his wrongs? Fucking hell afan, we all watch porno. Hell, you probably some of the homosexual variety with your navy buddies before doing some poppers and engaging in casual group sex.
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I'd rather sin than not be able to masturbate. Jesus died for our sins, so I can sin all I want, can't I? In fact, that's why I love Jesus so much, because he died for our sins and now we can sin all we want... and the best things in life are SINFUL. God sent Jesus to die for us, so we can enjoy life and still get into Heaven. It's pretty straightforward to me.
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haahahahaha, last page here is genius
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Goose if you are being serious than you might look into what you said a bit further. for your statement you might wanna check out Romans 6: 1-4 (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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Goose, if that is your attitude, I can tell you I'm pretty sure you're not a Christian. We can talk more about it on AIM if you want. The passage Shawn mentioned is a very good one to read.
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I believe in Christianity and I'm a follower of Jesus Christ... isn't that what being a Christian is?
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and guess what:
I want to get laid, but I don't take any action that will get me laid.
I want to do well in school, but I don't take any action to get good grades.
I want to be a Christian, but I don't do anything that makes me a Christian.
so you tell me what the problem is. Is it that I don't believe, or is it that I'm a big fuck up who can't do anything right?
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Your problem is that you're not a christian, good job!
We can talk more about it on AIM if you want, how not to be a christian!
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isn't christian a dutch guy name? or even english too? I feel sorry for those guys, they don't have a choice but to be christian.
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Being a Christian heavily involves repenting, turning from your sins, and living a new life. It also involves believing that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the dead, but that is meant to affect you to make him Lord of your life and start striving to obey His commandments. Praying a prayer and saying "I love God" doesn't change anything, much like a man telling his wife he loves her every night and yet still living the way he wants to, regardless of her. The book of James says that belief is not enough; even the demons believe, but that doesn't make them Christians, because they hate God. Your belief has to change you somehow; you have to submit yourself to Jesus to truly be a follower of Him.
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Well then it looks like I'm fucked.
Though I still believe I'll get my shit together and be in heaven some day.
But until then I guess I should start fucking mad bitches no? If even Christians think I'm not Christian then why do I have any morals left whatsoever?
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That's not to say you still won't sin. I sin all the time. But I pray and ask God to help me stop, and I strive to do good. And, let me tell you, the feeling is far more rewarding then any feeling I've ever gotten from giving in to sinful temptations.
So please just don't give up like that, Ryan.
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I feel as though the main point of Christianity is to give and spread good morals through the world.
I however also think the romans created it to assimilate a group to truly fight wars in.
I think religion is needed for the existence of humans. It starts with differences among groups then causes war. and people kill each othr and it controls the world pop
i also feel like Christianity has been abused in the past simply to control people.. and cause then to have an angelic living style and have the energy sucked from them.
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Well then it looks like I'm fucked.
HAHAHHAHA i laughed out loud on that one. Thiradell basically told you that your not a christian in some sense and you were like ... well then it looks like im fucked lol hahahahhahaha
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eh, c'mon Goose-bump! everyone here knows that you're smarter than that! even though you're a goof-nut, you're of a higher intelligence than you seem to want to portray...imo
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what are you talking about? I'm clearly not a Christian, according to Christian values, even though I still am going to say I'm a Christian and believe I'm Christian. I just fail. And it's not just this I fail at, I fail at everything. Now that God hates me too I have absolutely no reason to be alive right now, and to be honest with you, it fucking sucks.
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Who ever told you that God hated you?! They couldn't have spoken further from the truth good man! I KNOW you've heard John 3:16!!! For God so loved the WORLD, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes on Him shall have life everlasting.
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ok, God loves me. Now what? Honestly what the Hell do I do now?
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What do you want to do? What does your heart want to do? continue on KNOWINGLY in sin (according to bible) or to say "you know what, life is too precious to waste it doing the wrong thing!" and to quit all of the things that keep your heart from experiencing God indescribable love for you! He GAVE YOU, GOOSE, His ONLY Son. in the most horrifying and brutal way, He gave you (and stands to give you eternally) the love that you never deserved! who on this planet has done that and has the power to grant you pleasure beyond what you could ever begin to imagine in eternal life with Him, the Creator of everything that has ever existed. He promises something which our brains cannot even begin to imagine! but you must first willingly put down your pride and lay your sin at His feet (in earnest prayer) and strive to live by His rules each and every day! knowing that there will be temptation and hardship a long the way, but that in the end, if your heart is true to Him, He will keep His promises to those who believe in Him! btw, Goose, i really hope that you're serious my brother. please take this serious. im not telling you anything that i dont believe myself. and that only because the Holy Spirit has given me eyes to see and a heart to understand. i will praying for you as i go to bed brother (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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I just see it as, His love is never ending, so why not do bad stuff? He will still love you in the end.
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don't see it as "this-or-that," find the Truth and see it as that!
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"He GAVE YOU, GOOSE, His ONLY Son"
BWAHAHHAHAHA
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looooooool
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"then a crown of thorns was put on Jesus's head, and Jesus was all like, 'thanks'" - Stan Marsh, South Park
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6) !
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don't see it as "this-or-that," find the Truth and see it as that!
You're not helping. My point is that God will always love us, so why bother not sinning, if He will still love you when you sin?
What part of the "truth" says that we can't do this, and don't give me a Biblical passage please.
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I think it matters for going to heaven or hell?
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no Hugo, because God loves you so much that He will always forgive you for sinning.
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in that case, how could people ever end up in hell then?
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Because they want to!
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DARKNESS ASCENDS EVERYONE!
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Finally, because why has this 33 pages of sex gone on for so long?
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Because they want to!
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What part of the "truth" says that we can't do this, and don't give me a Biblical passage please.
How can he not give you a biblical passage? Everything he believes comes from the bible.
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true indeed, Karl (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6)
Proverbs 13:9 - The light of the righteous shines brightly, but the lamp of the wicked is snuffed out.
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so where in that does it say "don't sin, even though if you sin you won't go to Hell because God loves you forever."???
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Ryan, pleaaaaase stop acting like you're all dumb. You know this stuff yourself. Like, if you rape everyone in the world you sinned, but because god loves you I will still go to heaven. What a bunch of nonsense and you know it!
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sounds like a good deal to me tbh. Just believe in God and have faith and spread the word, and you can do as many immoral things as you want and still get into Heaven. Sounds like the deal of a lifetime!
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I think you also have to live by the ten commandments, otherwise no 954 virgins for you!
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HE IS THE 954 VIRGINS
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*the-elite is the 954 virgins. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6)
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You're the devil! 666!
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James 2 talks about faith without works being dead several times. This means that if you do not justify and prove that you have faith in God by living it out...your faith will die. Our faith has to be living and active and we keep it active by doing good things and striving not to sin.
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ahh, thank you for clearing that up Tyler. Though I must say that I do believe in the word of God and I know that what I am doing is wrong... I just enjoy it and don't care to correct it. I feel like I promote the word of God to others and encourage them to learn about these ways, and use myself as an example of a bad Christian and not something they should strive for. IMO that's being a pretty good Christian to me.
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So you're being a bad Christian and a pretty good Christian simultaneously? My goodness.
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Check out this all new Christian signature. Merry Christmas boys!!!!
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Flaugh.gif&hash=657f1346088ce2081c398c7379c3a47e4cf5861b)
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after reading the past 5 pages of this topic i think i have got a clear understanding of "religion"
you cant just believe, you have to change how you live, striving everyday... which then i will conclude that probably only 1% of christians get into heaven
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That was one of the most impressive rants I've ever heard in terms of passion and delivery. Great speaker that man is.
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I think that dayle was more hoping for an reply about the context of the speech, then about the quality of his speechskills (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Flaugh.gif&hash=657f1346088ce2081c398c7379c3a47e4cf5861b)
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I have nothing to reply to the speech content. Everything he brought up were good points. Personally, I always make the wrong decision in life, so I will continue to be against gay marriage, though I don't really understand why anyone else is.
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while that guy did speak compassionately about what i suppose he believes in-i wonder in all sincerity who's standards and morales he lives by. it sounded an awful lot like it was his own made up rule system that he was speaking from. and if that was the case then he is in just as much of a need as the next man, woman and child of the love of Christ! that's one trick the devil uses very effectively against the world and against God in that he mixes some truth (or even a lot of truth) with lies and deceit and throws people into confusion and unrest! for a smaller example look at rat poison. its ingredients are like 95% good and even healthy. the other 5% is what kills the rats, the part that was actually poisonous! perhaps he (the guy that was speaking) should go read his bible! the bible is definitely NOT stacked against love, but those that believe in Christ and Him who was crucified are stacked AGAINST SIN!!! the God that granted me and so many others eternal life AND which stands offering ALL OF YOU THAT READ THIS eternal life is the God that HATES sin, self-seeking hearts, pride, lust (of ANY kind) and homosexuality!!! get used to it because He will NEVER change! He DOES NOT hate homosexuals so don't even try to twist it around with a play on words!!!
Christ > homosexuality
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oh, so when yuo say something, while not capable of thinking for yourself, it just has to be true? you just MAKE UP your own god, fitting in his personality as you see fit.. in this case you want that people don't 'sin', and think you can form some kind of argument by talking about a silly ideal of your own. is this god person male? if so, YOU are probably gay.
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God isn't a person and doesn't have gender...
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then it's not capable of doing what afan said.
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God created homosexuals. What people didn't realise when the bible was written, was that homosexuality was biological and not a choice.
The god that the bible speaks of is a piece of shit. Only the people lucky enough not to be born gay, muslim, hindu, buddhist or any other culture of the world would think otherwise. Everyone on this earth is born a human. They aren't born christian, or cathlotic, or gay, or rich, or poor, or any of the fucked labels society uses to categories people.
I pity those who believe in the bible. Yes, it has some good suggestions, but they are destroyed by hundreds of contradictions. Any truly wise man would admit that even if he thinks his beliefs are true, he could never dismiss those of another. And he would never attempt to withhold freedom, happiness and success from ANYONE, EVER, whether it be in this life or the next, simply because of what the other believes in.
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Also, I am SICK TO DEATH of bible preachers trying to claim a moral monopoly. We are genetically designed to have morals. Just like a cat is born with the knowledge of how to hunt. Just like a bird is born with the knowledge of how to mate. Why would it seem logical to assume that every single animal on the planet is born with the knowledge of how to survive and act appropriately to it's kind, yet humans are the exception.
Human nature may not be what everyone thinks of as 'perfect', but it is what it is. I think MOST people are GOOD people, but in our society there are FEW that have ALL of the power. In this kind of power inbalance the selfish people will always rise to the top of the pyramid. The truly decent people do not want power, they want power to be spread amongst the entire population. It is only the people that want power that will go after it, and people who want power by nature are those who would be inclined to go to war and take freedom and wealth from others.
Humans have problems, but this has never stopped them from surviving as a species. You will find almost every species will have their problems. I do believe that we can solve these problems using our intelligence, but it will not be for a while. The answer is not religion and it is not politics. Religions teaches us to grant success and happiness only to those who believe as we do. The only way for this world to change is if every belief is treasured. Politics can only create laws, it cannot love or recieve love. The answer lies in the human spirit. I believe humans as a whole are amazing and giving, but again, it is the currupt that are in power. And it is the currupt that bring us into war, and poverty.
</rant>
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Could you maybe give an example of a few of the Bible's contradictions, Karl? God did not create homosexuals, homosexuals are people (according to the Bible) who have given in to their sin and been consumed with lustful passions for one another.
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*awaits anyone who can post a biblical contradiction*
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Sure, these aren't in the exact words of the bible, but close enough:
- "The day of your birth and the day of your death were planned by God before you were born." | I have a serious fucking problem with this, because this makes me believe that every rape, murder, and abortion were planned by God too and that we're just puppets fulfilling his ridiculous plan; why imprison murderers for doing something miraculous and set out by God?
- "Pray and your prayers will be answered". | Sucks to be an amputee I guess, why's that? Because God cannot heal physical wounds, only the body can and the body cannot regenerate limbs ffs.
- "I will return" - I haven't fucking seen Jesus even in my days of deep belief, has anyone else? I doubt he's coming back because he WASN'T THE SAVIOR.
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There's no hope of trying to use rational discussion with two class-A pillocks like Afan and Thiradell so can we just shut this topic?
And for the record:
http://www.infidels.org/l...bible-contradictions.html (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html)
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hey Durk - http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/bible.htm#101 (http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/bible.htm#101) - anything else buddy? (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
*weak* Durk fails...again
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lol at how 90% of the answers to the contradictions are about not taking things at face value. But I'm sorry, you DO take the bible at face value.....don't you?
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Ugh, Durk. Most of those "contradictions" are taking verses out of context and seeming to pit them against each other. Take short passages out of lawbooks and you can make them seem to contradict.
Jim:
-People get raped and murdered, etc. because of sin. God allowed sin into the world because He allowed Adam and Eve to choose what they wanted, and they eventually chose sin.
-"Pray and your prayers will be answered" does not imply that they will be answered "Yes."
-I don't know when, but He's comin'.
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1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day.
6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning-the second day.
9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning-the third day.
14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights-the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning-the fourth day.
20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning-the fifth day.
24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground-everything that has the breath of life in it-I give every green plant for food." And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning-the sixth day.
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also, I agree that it will be AWESOME when Jesus comes back down and gathers all the Christians to fight against the Anti-Christ. I hope I'm alive for it because that will be such an epic battle.
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where in the bible does it say that Christ is coming back to gather up all the christians to fight against the anti-christ? or where did you ever read that Goose? if both God and the devil are to be believed in, then how could there be any such battle? the book of Revelation (along with Daniel and a couple of others) is very intense reading! but i can recall no where where it states that we are going to stand against and fight the anti-christ with God. in fact i dont believe there will be any such "fight" at all! as if the devil could even stand next to Christ! the bible does talk about when and how Christ will throw the devil into the lake of fire! imo (as this is never really clarified in the bible) we (true believers, that is) wont be anywhere near this occurrence. since God is omnipotent we will be elsewhere reveling in His glory and enjoying the eternal bliss that awaits us! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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I just made that story up, tbh.
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Well, one obvious contradiction in the bible would be: you shall not kill or whatever, but it claims that you should kill a lot of people for a whole variety of reasons.
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Good point, Max. Now let me explain...the Hebrew word here is closer to "murder," or even something like "outside of the boundaries" or "beyond your authority." Killing, when sanctioned by God in the Old Testament (as it often was), is fine, but killing anyone anytime just because you wanted to was not acceptable. I realize the verse plainly states "You shall not kill," but there were ramifications and exceptions made plain to the children of Israel at later times (or even beforehand). These exceptions are usually given because a country is blaspheming God's name/i.e. not honoring Him properly.
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Hence, a contradiction.
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A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to reap the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. (Galatians 6:7,8 )
does this help you at all Goose? i know you were saying that you're a Christian, but that you don't really care to LIVE as one so i thought these verses might help you. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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from my understanding of the bible God is clearly in support of capitol punishment, which is done in truth and under justice. imo-this country (world for that matter!) would be FAR better off if we killed those that deserved death! that is one area where the U.S. is VERY weak in!. He is also clearly against blind rage, murder, etc. it doesn't take too much intelligence to know that there is a CLEAR difference between the two! i'm not exactly clear on what you're referring to though Max. if you could give specific instances from the bible, it would be easier to answer you, but vague references and paraphrasing just makes it muddied and unclear.
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Maybe someone doesn't take this discussion seriously and will not be convinced on a public forum no matter how much proof is sent their way. Maybe you should go to court where this nonsense would have ended in under an hour.
Everyone makes mistakes and interprets things incorrectly. If you could be wrong about something small like where did I put my game controller today then you could be wrong about anything. Positions are not won, to put it negatively, they are lost.
On a postive note you can be right sometimes. I think more people today are not into the violent aspect of religion where leaders use it as a political weapon/leverage to incite genocide/crime somehow. If you don't know what I mean you are probably ignoring what's going on around you.
In addition to the six or seven billion people or so at this time who also have an interpretation. I know I should believe in myself first.
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Γ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββ
Γ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββ
Γ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββ
Γ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββ
Γ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββ
Γ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββ
Γ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββ
Γ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββ
Γ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββ
Γ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββ
Γ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββ
Γ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββ
Γ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’βΛΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββ
Γ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββΓ’ββ
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Is there a worthy judgment without any speed demon bias? Will we find out?
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what in God's creation are you saying man?!?!
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Findifferent.gif&hash=8477f604dbc9b93d541b41fc8c40029181ae2adb)
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WGAF what you think!
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from my understanding of the bible God is clearly in support of capitol punishment, which is done in truth and under justice. imo-this country (world for that matter!) would be FAR better off if we killed those that deserved death! that is one area where the U.S. is VERY weak in!. He is also clearly against blind rage, murder, etc. it doesn't take too much intelligence to know that there is a CLEAR difference between the two! i'm not exactly clear on what you're referring to though Max. if you could give specific instances from the bible, it would be easier to answer you, but vague references and paraphrasing just makes it muddied and unclear.
Well think about it, if the government started killing more people (death penatly) i'm sure everyone would go insane. Some people are probably innocent to some degree being mental problems or something, I also think that people who did something where they should be put to death can be cleansed. You yourself did say that you did sin a majority of the time before christ came into your life... maybe people on death row have not found christ yet? I'm sure some even change while in prison and maybe find christ in their life. Now should they be let loose into public... maybe after years and years. But then again some could do it as a cover up just to get out. Everything has flaws imo. Even religion, nothings perfect in some sense.
Also, bible contradictions i think are great. If everything in the bible made perfect sense and could be proven then where would the "faith" be. Lets say God came came to the world and did everything he could do to prove that it was him, then it would be very easy to say "yeah i believe in God" but since you cant prove his existance fully... faith comes into play. So for instance when Jimbo said, "I haven't fucking seen Jesus even in my days of deep belief, has anyone else? I doubt he's coming back because he WASN'T THE SAVIOR" So if jesus did come to your house you could easily believe in him correct? but now if he didnt come to you... you would then have to have faith that he exist, which to me is the entire spectrum of religion... faith.
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from my understanding of the bible God is clearly in support of capitol punishment, which is done in truth and under justice. imo-this country (world for that matter!) would be FAR better off if we killed those that deserved death! that is one area where the U.S. is VERY weak in!. He is also clearly against blind rage, murder, etc. it doesn't take too much intelligence to know that there is a CLEAR difference between the two! i'm not exactly clear on what you're referring to though Max. if you could give specific instances from the bible, it would be easier to answer you, but vaguereferences and paraphrasing just makes it muddied and unclear
I always thought that in the bible stood "you shall not kill". So it sounds a bit weird to me you think you solve the problem of killers with "killing them". You always say "I hate the act, not the man himself" so its contradicting if you suddenly decide on who has to live and who cannot. Wasnt it "if someone hits you in the face, you turn your head" or something.
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i never said kill blindly. in fact, if you read that whole post in context (there's a novel idea!) you would know (which i'm surprised you don't already!) that murder and capitol punishment are completely different! c'mon fellas use your head!
Alex-"if the govt used the death penalty more, than more people would go insane" ????? WTF does that even mean? if when people are put to death they are truly penitent (which only they and God can know at that moment) than they are cleansed! that's the whole message and Truth in Christianity! true, Godly repentance leads to salvation! don't limit God and his abilities because he can, will and does achieve that which he desires to. and what you said about my life before Christ was nothing but the truth brother! the fact that He didn't strike me dead is the very reason that i worship, thank and love Him every day! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6) laws, penalties and justice isn't an easy structure to stick to, and my bad if it seemed like that's what i was getting at! no doubt about it, being just and handing out penalty in a fair way is very difficult this day and age because there are hippies that believe that no one should be put to death! and this is a tough topic for some to think about, but imo and if you believe biblically, as i do, than i believe that capitol punishment, like i said, is just and fair, so long as the jury and judge see it the same way! i'm not a judge, i couldn't and don't desire to be one. but there are people put into these positions because they are believed to be the best person or people to make heavy decisions without bias and based on a just system that says if you purposefully murder (self-defense and accidental aside) or you rape or molest or anything along those lines (again i'm not the one who decides which penalty for which action, but the bible is and it states it pretty meticulously) AND you are convicted of said crimes, your life is given to make right! if someone knew that that was the penalty for such actions, doesn't it seem logical that they would do all in their power to avoid committing these heinous crimes? i believe so! and Cara your post was weak at best! there is nothing contradictory about anything that i've said, but thanks for trying! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f) the commandment "you shall not kill" is clearly referring to murder, not capitol punishment! i suppose that if you ever opened a bible and looked these matters up for yourself you might be enlightened by what the bible speaks! though it doesn't sound like that is high up on your list of things-to-do. but it would perhaps save you from looking silly when speaking about the bible! and i never said anything about "solving any problems!" i spoke of being fair and upholding justice, which, like i said, is a weak point in america. i decide nothing of that fate of others, i leave that in the far more capable hands of my Heavenly Father, who knows the heart and motives of every single person that has ever existed! including you! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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too long imo
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i know... it's very hard to have a conversation like this on an internet forum, but what am i to do? (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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Can a mod lock this topic now, it's becoming really stale.
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*Sighs* No he doesn't.
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c'mon, its supposed to be a joke, not trying to offend anyone here!
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that was simply incredibly rofl.
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Don't you wish that you could be a fly on the wall?
A creepy, little, sneaky, little fly on the wall?
All my precious secrets yeah, you know them all.
Don't you wish that you could be a fly on the wall?
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I realize that, Henning, I just take anything involving Jesus very seriously.
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aww thats cool.
so if I say "jesus actually was a cabdriver on a camel" you'd take that seriously as well?
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.choiceshirts.com%2Fimages%2FA1%2F33%2FA13382A-lg.jpg&hash=56cda45ab1c1c974420524f98bee9f4589474aed)
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Jesus loves people who don't believe in him. He just loves playing hard to get. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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I LOVE JESUS WITH ALL MY <3
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LMFAOOOOO HAHAHAHAHAHAHA that pic was very funny Shawn! I mean, it cant be nothing but a joke pic/text! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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no joke Blommy!
unless you mean my avatar! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6)
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hello christians,
"You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." john 14
Can I ask where the line is drawn on this? How big a believer do you have to be, and how realistic does ANYTHING have to be, for prayers to be answered.
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The largest evidence that God does not exist is that people like you are still alive.
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and I am alive, so.... go god! nh
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Are you really alive?
What makes you feel alive? Is it the ability that if you chose, to live without morals or repent on your actions? Is it that you can change your character to whomever you want to be (as anyone, even those religious can) and without God you can feel like your life has reached a purpose, and that there is nothing more to live for? Is it that no matter what you do with your life, it is YOUR decision and you are too selfish to give a shit about your footprint on mankind in such a way that regardless of action you are to be held accountable and that is all there is? Is it? Because if so, that's fucking pathetic, and billions of people agree with me.
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oh goose you try so hard, it's almost commendable
answer my question about prayer you faggot, it's genuine.
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I don't prayer very often so I have no right to discuss this.
I certainly don't think "If I pray, it will happen." I know I need to take action myself for anything to happen, but I don't see why God can't help...
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also; fuck you mark.
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What is a typical situation where 'god can help?'
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God can help by closing this topic
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What is a typical situation where 'god can help?'
You are failing school, have no friends within 100 miles, have no job, you have no motivation to leave bed from medical depression and your life is basically over at 18 years old. You might as well kill yourself because there is absolutely no point to you living right now as you are only using up other people's resources wastefully.
Yet a year later, I am still here fighting.
That, my friend, is how God can help.
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Could also call a shrink instead of roystering around.
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I tried that and it didn't do much talking to one really.
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I don't know exactly how far that extends, l3. It does require you to have faith in Him (from verse 12), and the context of the verses before explain that you ask from your faith, that the request is a pouring out of a desire you've attained through faith. Therefore anything you ask of Jesus will be such as "Give me wisdom" or "Draw this person to yourself, Lord."
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the following scripture does not really follow the previous thought, but i thought it was a great piece of knowledge...
Proverbs 26:11 - As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.
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I hate answering to anyone, so fuck God. Even if he did exist, I'd personally tell him to eat a bag of dick and die. I'd rather sit in hell by myself!
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I don't think so, Jim. Just imagine the worst pain you can think of, for all eternity. Never-ending. Contrast that with euphoria beyond any imagining (better then sexual, winning Super Bowl, etc.) with no bad things of any kind for all eternity. That's hell and heaven. Yes, you do have to give your life to God, but if you do, He'll change it to something much better then you could've ever found on your own.
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So says you and your insane flawed view on the "afterlife"; I'm gonna see black forever after my brain/heart shut down.
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Sounds like too big of a risk. Some math guy made a good gambling schema on this problem. The God problem. We were talking about it in Philosophy, but the gist is that, from a betting point of view, it is best to bet on God for the best end result payout.
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Lets say your parents, whom you both (goose and tyler) truly love, aren't Christian and end up burning in hell because of it. How is heaven supposed to be perfect if some of your earthly loved ones are not there with you?
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There's a passage in the Bible that says you can save your family from Hell if you are Christian. I forget where, Tyler probably knows though.
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That would be incorrect, sir.
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I saw one in the Bible the other day.
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So where's the downside of being an athiest, and having a christian kid. You cannot lose?
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Haha, I'm not sure this is exactly the case, but there would be no downside. I am positive that if your wife/husband is Christian and you are not, then you will go to Heaven with them, so in this case yes, there is no downside to being an atheist provided that you feel you can live life fine without being touched by the amazing grace of an omnipotent being.
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Goose you bring up an interesting point! but you are incorrect in what you are saying. no one else on earth can bring salvation to anyone else! it's a commitment that that person has to make between him/her and God! there is no other way to heaven as far as the bible is concerned!
find the verse you're talking about Goose and i will do my best to point you in the biblical direction... though i must say good on you for at least looking, which is better than a few other tweaks that suck at pretending to know what's going on with the bible! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
Jimbo - you're imagination is more pathetic than bag of dead flatulence if you think that you wouldn't enjoy heaven without your "earthly" parents! God, the Supreme Entity that designed you and knit you together in your mothers womb and who knew you before you were ever conceived IS gonna blow your mind when you meet Him face-to-face! and THIS IS TRUTH: that He will blow our minds with AWESOMENESS when we (the ones who believe in our hearts) arrive at our final destination! find something intelligent to prove me wrong, Jimbo! don't just be that pathetic statistic that blows useless crap out of his mouth with no reason or proof! be a man Jim and bring all you have to the table! if your measly little brain is all that tells you what you believe in, than you have a serious head-on collision coming at you and you better nut up and get ready to take it! or else let your heart be transformed and join the victorious!
for those of us that choose to live for Him in this present age, we will have an eternity of ecstasy (far beyond anything sexual!) to spend in awe! an ETERNITY! FOREVER! but the choice to decline and rebel against God, when not reconciled by Christ through a willing heart, will suffer something more cruel and agonizing for the same amount of time... obviously we are beyond reason when THAT'S what you desire over heaven, so take care and may God enlighten you and open your eyes to your own pillar of pride that you worship.
and Jimbo, stop worrying so much about others (you've mentioned your family several times) when your own spiritual state is in such a state of deterioration! perhaps if you were to accept Christ, you might bring Him to the rest of your family and then you will have nothing to complain about! but Lord knows that takes work, effort and determination. so i challenge you Jim to take a stand for what you know to be true and right and open your heart for Jesus and allow Him to use you to speak His truths to your family so that they might accept Him as well!
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lol at telling jimbo not to speak rubbish when he doesn't have proof.
oh the irony
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indeed Mark. same for "Jimbo, stop worrying so much about others" lol
I like the final destination movie series.
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No one cares what you think Wouter because you're a shitty updater.
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actually, yuo are too, every time you go to the toilet for a big one, you have been updating shit inside of you.
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OMFG Wouter! WTF did that even mean?
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Findifferent.gif&hash=8477f604dbc9b93d541b41fc8c40029181ae2adb)
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I like it (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e).
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Short 5 minute video which describes an interesting anecdote relating to God.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piuoGb-Nhfw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piuoGb-Nhfw)
(honestly not rudebox)
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a worthy piece of encouragement, Goose. but the power of God could never be contained in a million encouraging videos!
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That video is rediculous, and is just propaganda which fails.
The chalk fell out his hands and didn't break, it's implying that some other force than coincidence (so god) did it. Your god has let hundreds of wars take place, millions of innocent people die and has done nothing. As soon as someone is about to break some chalk, he suddenly wakes up and realises he has to show these USC students that he is real. I'd say this story is 90% fake anyway. Chalk does not break into loads (hundreds) of little pieces when you drop it. I just dropped one on my floor and it chipped/dented the tip, nothing else. Infact this story is probably 100% fake.
Also he said "Stand up if you believe Jesus christ existed". Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a massive difference in believing in jesus and believing in god? As an athiest, I think there probably was a man called jesus that existed. However I also believe he was the son of 'mary and joseph'. god had nothing to do with his birth. Mary got dressed up real nice one night, and Joseph gave her one.
So shouldn't the lecturers question have been "Stand up if you believe god exists" instead?
"Isn't it funny how simple it is for people to trash God, and then wonder why the world is going to hell" -- This one sided, narrow view is the reason I have little respect for anyone who's religious. This world is not 'going to hell' because people trash an imaginary being. It's going wrong because of a conflict of beliefs takes place, all over who has the 'best/correct' god. War is fueled by religion most of the time. If this world was full of athiests/agnostic people, who kept their views to themselves and didn't let their religion rule their life, I can guarantee it'd be a much better world. YOU religious people are the reason "this world is going to hell"
"Isn't it funny how we believe things the newspapers, but question what the bible says" -- what. Who believes what they read in newspapers? This question is so full of stupity it's unreal. Everyone knows newspapers (I don't know if its the same in other countries) make up stories to make money. Nothing in the newspaper I read I believe, I read them more for entertainment than anything. People question the bible because it's full of rubbish, end of.
"Isn't it funny how everyone wants to go to heaven" -- everyone? What athiests want to go to heaven?
"Isn't it funny how you can send thousands of jokes through email, and they spread like wildfire, but when you spread messages about the lord, people think twice about sending them" -- Yeah because people don't like to spread stuff they can't backup. MOST christians when quizzed/interogated/questioned about their religion just buckle under the pressure. They don't know enough about 'what' they believe in. This is because people just believe what family members believe most of the time. Two devout christians have a child... chances are that kid is going to grow up a christian. Why? Because religion is so cruel it gets people while they are young... it gets them while they don't know any better, and have no alternative to choose from. How many 5 year old athiests do you know? Try explaining big big theory to a 5 year old and they die through head explosion. It's only people who aren't so caught up and misguided in this religious nonsense that 'break free' when we are old enough to make our own decision and understand we only get 1 shot in this world.
I can't believe I spend 10 minutes writing this. I'm gonna go pray some pizza turns up on my door in the next 5 minutes. If it does, I'm no longer than athiest and Ill give my life to god.
bye
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On your point of war:
If there were only atheists in the world, there would be no religion fueled war, I agree.
What if there was only one religion? What if everyone in the world was Christian? Would there be religion fueled war then?
I have to imagine having one universal religion is just as likely and would give the same result in terms of religiously fueled wars as having no religion at all.
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Hmm I guess that's correct, if everyone in the world was the same religion it would stop a lot of the problems. This could be solved if your god just showed himself to the world, and what he can do. But he won't...
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I'm not going to argue that either. If God came down and said "hey, it's me, God, everyone convert to (whatever religion)" then of course it would make things easier.
But just be sure not to think that atheism is the only way out of "religious warfare."
If you read the Christian and Islam scriptures, you'll see that both these religions' goals are to convert EVERYONE to their religion, which would ultimately end this religious warfare. Who'd think that the solution could be within religion itself. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148)
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If you murdered everyone on the planet there would no longer be any murders. If you can't see how the previous sentence relates to your statement you're a twat.
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"if everyone in the world was the same religion it would stop a lot of the problems"
lol at that
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obv a semi typo, replace A LOT OF with LOTS OF. i dont proof read before posting, ldo
btw my pizza didn't arrive (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
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Person: Hello athiest, did the big bang create the universe
Athiest: Probably, and more than likely, yes. Here is the evidence we have to back up our findings, and how we apply it to what we know.
Person: Hello religious man, did god create the universe
Religious man: YES OF COURSE HE DID IT SAYS SO IN THIS BIBLE. I BELIEVE IN EVERYTHING TO DO WITH SCIENCE IN THIS WORLD APART FROM THE ONE THEORY WHICH SINGLE HANDIDLY DESTROYS 2000 YEARS OF GOSSIP/LIES THAT SO MANY OF US LEAD OUR LIVES BY.
cliffnotes: religious people use caps to argue their points.
:noose
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Person: Hello athiest, did the big bang create the universe
Athiest: Probably, and more than likely, yes. Here is the evidence we have to back up our findings, and how we apply it to what we know.
Person: Okay, I'm listening.
And, guys, God did come down in the form of a man 2,000 years ago as Jesus Christ. If someone were to claim the same thing today, you would write him off as fake (I would too, but you see my point). You refuse to believe because you are stubborn. "No, Jesus wasn't God, He was just a man." He turned water into wine! And walked on water! And fed 5,000 men plus women and children with five loaves of bread and two fish, with 12 baskets of leftovers! Just because these things happened 2,000 years ago doesn't make them any less true; God shouldn't have to come down every 50 years to prove to every new generation that He exists; the evidence is there.
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my mum can cook and therefor is very superior to any possible god.
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Durk, no one said that if everyone had the same religious beliefs there would be no war. We said there would be no Holy War or conflict otherwise fueled by religion.
You can NEVER stop all the problems in the world because that is simply impossible. Even in the Bible the world has problems and God needs to make a great flood to cleanse the Earth (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148)
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thiradell, do you accept that you might be wrong about there being a god? And the only time you will know if you are correct is when you die
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If you murdered everyone on the planet there would no longer be any murders. If you can't see how the previous sentence relates to your statement you're a twat.
If we killed every being, human and non human, who has AIDS and irradiated their bodies in such a way killing the disease, there would be no more AIDS in the world.
You may think this solution is ridiculous and inhumane, and I may think not doing it is ridiculous and inhumane. It's interesting how two humans can have such fundamentally different beliefs.
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If there was no such thing as religion, things would be just fine.
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If there was no such thing as money or love, we'd be fine as well...
Religion is not bad, it is the fact that religion is powerful and that power is often misused which is the issue.
Look at how many problems in the world are caused through love and money. Why do these happen? Because these things are powerful too, just like religion.
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I assure you things would be quite messed up if there was no religion, Vitor.
Durk...yes, I doubt. I do wonder if I'm wrong, absolutely. Yeah, there will always be a small part of me that wonders, and I won't find out till I die. So yes.
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I know I don't believe it, I don't accept it, I find it appalling and laughable at the same time; but my hatred for christianity stems directly from my intense hatred for corrupt authority and imo, God seems pretty damn corrupt, so to hell with him and what he demands of us in the bible.
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i wish that you knew what you were saying Jim (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
the irreverence and pride that is thrown around here is humiliating to humanity! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
why does anybody think that people like Tyler and myself continue to preach (and i will personally never tire of it!) The Biblical Truth in here? the ONLY reason is so that you can be saved from the due punishment and condemnation that awaits us all IF we don't trust in Christ! how is that a bad thing? my heart is often sad when i am continually around people such as yourselves (those of you who continue to feebly stand against God, that is)
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I want to know how someone of such great Christian status like you, Shawn, views me as a Christian. Is what I am doing and how I am living good? How drastically do I need to change to find eternal happiness?
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the ONLY "change" that will bring you an immovable, unshakable and incalculable joy or happiness in the one to willingly let Christ into your heart and let Him work His power through you! only by COMPLETE submission to Him can this happen. a 100% desire to live your life to please Him by everything you think, say and do my friend! if you are sincere than check yourself everyday, every morning and every night to see if you living according to what God desires, which you will find throughout the majestic pages of His Holy Word, the Bible (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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so basically pray every night
go to church every Sunday
don't masturbate
don't swear
don't get too drunk
is smoking weed against the bible too? or what's the deal with intoxicants and stuff.
tbh doesn't sound too hard. I just need a girlfriend and to get married ASAP and everything will be alright (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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you need Jesus as the most important thing in your life before anything else! once that is in order your search for the perfect mate will be more of a blessing and the likelihood that she, too, will love Christ goes way up! and that is bona fide excellence! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
it seems like you're just missing the point Goose! Christ is infinitely more important than any woman ever could be! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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No he means that he'll be exempt from his sexual tensions that depresses a lot of kids/people.
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Okay, enough of this junk, no more religious talk on the boards. 90% of this topic is ridic and/or spam, and it's going to other topics too, so I'm going to start deleting posts that are off topic by request of some other users.