The Elite Forum

The Big Three Plus One => General Chat => Topic started by: RWG on September 08, 2008, 01:21:00 am

Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on September 08, 2008, 01:21:00 am
**lets try to keep this civilized people!**

As we should all know, the US election for President is upcoming this November 4th.  This is the topic in which we discuss who you like, who you don't like, who you will be voting for, who you'd like to vote for if you could and all of the like.  Personally I am a fan of John McCain, though I liked Mike Huckabee during the republican primaries.  I also think Sarah Palin is very attractive along with her daughters.  What do you guys think?
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Saint Shang on September 08, 2008, 02:16:00 am
I'm sick of seeing it on the news here in the UK. Like wtf interest would the majority of Brits have in something like that? It's been on for months, get the thing over with already. Somebody says "Hello" at these convention things when  they come on stage, and the crowd act like mongs for 10 mins whooping and generally being gay. It's all bullshit politics. Ask a question, and they never answer it directly. They're sleazebags. An honest person is needed, but they don't exist, cause there's always a need to lie at some point during there term.

However with the introduction of a MILF in the form of Sarah Palin, i'll be watching more closely. She kinda reminds me of Tina Fey.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on September 08, 2008, 02:40:00 am
yeah, i think Huckabee would have done this country some REAL good, but since he's working on becoming the next Christian Rockstar, i will hold out for Herr McCain. i would never vote for someone who supports Islam and who, IN HIS OWN BOOK, slanderizes his own mom because of the color of her skin! Obama is NOT going to help this country in ANY way!
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: the Blueline Goddess on September 08, 2008, 02:49:00 am
Gotta love how all the non-Americans love the republicans! :/

Both McCain and Palin scare me, McCain is the oldest nominee ever, and has battled a form of cancer that is quite likely to reoccur (and is usually fatal when it does reoccur) so I really don't see him living through a term. Palin is someone who started off as mayor of a town that had a surplus budget, and within two years, gave them a major deficit for which they have yet to recover. She believes in abstinence-only education, which obviously she can't even get to work in her own home (see: Bristol) and wants to take away a woman's right to choose. McCain is also against a woman's right to choose, but I don't see him pushing to overturn Roe vs. Wade, but I can see Palin doing so. Also, both are against gay rights, with Palin going "hee hee, I'm not homophobic, I have gay friends, I just don't think they are actually people."

I am not thrilled with the lack of experience Obama has, but I do agree with his ideas more. I also got a ton of respect for him when he deflected criticism of Bristol Palin by saying family was off-limits (only to have McCain and Palin attack *his* family during the RNC). I do believe that Obama is going to try to fix our majorly FUBAR'd healthcare system, and I am quite happy he will find a way to get our troops out of Iraq (since, you know, the current administration kept saying we'd pull them after Saddam was overthrown, which happened FOUR YEARS AGO). Basically, with the issues that are most important to me, I fall on Obama's side.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on September 08, 2008, 03:00:00 am
You bring up some good points Dayle, especially how that with only 2 parties it's quite difficult to find a candidate who you agree with 100% It is a little unfortunate but I guess even with infinite candidates we could never find someone who we agree with completely. I also wonder about why they didn't leave after Saddam was overthrown but now they're still there and fell behind I do believe they need to finish the job.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on September 08, 2008, 03:05:00 am
we are running around, i believe, without a CLEAR, decisive mission. im certainly not in the thick of it over there (but Rayan is (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148)) and i am thankful with all my heart that im stationed in PEARL HARBOR!!!, but lets support our troops and those who are simply following orders, kthnksbi
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on September 08, 2008, 03:10:00 am
yes I agree of course to support the troops. What exactly do you do in Pearl Harbor, are you coast guard or are you navy? Is there any chance you would get called over?
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Neo on September 08, 2008, 04:36:00 am
Obama isn't great but he isn't McCain/Palin, so the answer is obv.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Soft-Hedwig on September 08, 2008, 06:51:00 am
Huckabee was a redneck hick. Which is why i'm guessing afan supports him.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Carathorn on September 08, 2008, 07:07:00 am
HILLARYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: wheatrich on September 08, 2008, 08:27:00 am
If you merely disagree with Palin she'll try to fuck you up--anything she can do to damage you is fair game in her twisted mind. I know way too many people with that attitude and well I let's just say I feel very strongly against these kind of people and I hope they don't get within one rung of the presidency. (btw McCain isn't a lot different in that regard either but I've never heard personal vendettas just the "you're not in my world so you don't exist" stuff) It's one thing to be stubborn but to take it personally is insane.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on September 08, 2008, 09:58:00 am
I will not debate this topic with eliters, especially non-americans who likely get the abridged, anti-american influenced news verions of what is going on here.


That said, I'm on par with Dayle 100%. I will be voting for Obama, and that's all I'll say in this topic! It shouldn't take Obama yelling "change" for a year for you to realize we need it - a republican simply isn't the way to go for america right now, and if obama weren't black (or hillary not a woman), this election would have been over before the primaries even began. Yeah, I said it, and you all know its true.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Red Bull on September 08, 2008, 10:14:00 am
Pleaaaaase, the news is already pretty much covered with Obama/McCain news. No need for it to be on a gaming message board too, please (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
*Agrees with Shang 100%* btw!
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Soft-Hedwig on September 08, 2008, 11:15:00 am
That's a bit presumptuous, Octo. Surely the best way to change any misconceptions that Europeans, or people from outside the US have of the presidential race would be to engage in some kind of debate, not merely to sideline people because they are not American.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: ShadowZero64 on September 08, 2008, 11:20:00 am
McCain should concentrate more on a lemonparty career, with him being older than din far and all.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on September 08, 2008, 12:08:00 pm
Navy...work with a lot of Marines btw. and yes, there is always a chance that i might get deployed, but given that im a Dental Technician, it isnt very likely right now, especially with the conflict waning

McCain
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Lovins on September 08, 2008, 12:44:00 pm

I'm voting for...

<---my post count being re-enacted Friday night (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f)

(yeah I'm pretty apathetic about politics)

Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: l337 on September 08, 2008, 12:45:00 pm
I'm voting Ron Paul
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on September 08, 2008, 01:11:00 pm
I reall do like Ron Paul. What I do have to say is that I really think McCain has it locked up for several reasons;

-he's quite a liberal conservative, much more left of George W Bush so his policies are clearly much different and cater to more mid-line people
-the Republicans have all the momentum right now
-they got a hot chick on their side who is uber conservative, to help keep those voters McCain won't get
-no matter what the polls say, I'm 100% certain there will be people who walk into the voting booth and 2nd guess voting for Obama because he is black. Either they will be swing voters who just think they can't vote a black guy, or they might be democrats who think something like "why am I voting Obama?? Is it only because he is black? Is this the right reason to vote for someone?" A Hell of a lot can change when people are all alone in the voting booth, that is for sure.
-Obama has a MASSIVE base of young voters. Stereotypically the democrat, hippie, stoner type. I imagine many will get up on election day and "forget" the election is that day resulting in a loss of votes.

This all being said, McCain will be the 44th President of the U.S.A.


AfotR; dental technician, that's pretty cool stuff to have worked in getting a career along with being a military man. You're a real role model Shawn (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on September 08, 2008, 04:18:00 pm
^ all i can say is that God has been generous to me and my wife. i would be infected with herpa-gona-syphull-aids rotting in a ditch somewhere is Jersey right now without Him, thanks though (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: youseinthehouse on September 08, 2008, 04:26:00 pm
I like, in a loosely ordered sense,

Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, Bob Barr, John McCain

My state's unfortunately undoubtedly going to go with Obama, probably even before the Biden factor became involved. The only good thing from an Obama victory this fall will be the fact that Biden will be [Harry Kalas]outta here![/Harry Kalas]; At any rate, this way, I won't be so inclined to vote for McCain as an anti-Obama vote, as I otherwise would if I lived in a swing state. I might write in Paul or vote for one of the other two mentioned if they actually make the ticket here.

Edit - I tried to use the HTML brackets for Harry Kalas the first time, which were filtered out.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on September 08, 2008, 05:55:00 pm
I don't get why serving in the Navy has anything to do with.. anything. But I'm almost as anti-military as I am anti-religion and anti-politics (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e) Damn, all the fun stuff to talk about, too! Ah well.


I agree, Goose, I think though the polls are Obamas way now, things are more likely to swing in McCains favor than the other way over the next few months. Obama will need to pull some serious stuff out of his ass, or find a way to get his supporters to actually show up at the voting polls. Imo, Obama started his hype a little too early. Atleast he's exciting though, he has the potential to bring back excitement before election day, while McCain just SCREAMS sleezeball just looking at him. I can't even listen to him talk, every look he gives the camera makes me cringe. He reeks of sleezeball and bullshit more than any politician I've had the (dis)pleasure of listening to, and even if I didn't know anything about his politics I wouldn't want the guy in office lol.


But yeah, here in CA like Youse, the votes probably wont matter. I honestly only know 2 people who like McCain (hell, that don't absolutely loathe him and Biden). And both are super conservative, religious and from hick-town - not a common type out here in CA.


I guess I just don't understand the conservative mindset, at all. I don't get how you would want to support a party founded on NOT changing things when things are so awful right now. It just doesn't make sense to me, I don't care how much you might hate Obama or like what McCain says he'll do, things suck now and the party isn't going to change nearly enough. That's just how people think here in CA and its obviously different in other states. We're all omg go gays, go abortion, gogogo etc. But yeah, the instant I hear stuff about anti-gay or anti-choice, the candidate is immediately off the list for me. Too closed-minded for my tastes
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on September 08, 2008, 06:02:00 pm
rofl @ your description of a national hero to be a ridiculous sleazebag.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on September 08, 2008, 06:03:00 pm
Being in service doesn't make you a hero in my eyes
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on September 08, 2008, 06:39:00 pm
you're absolutely correct about that, but what McCain did goes well beyond service.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on September 08, 2008, 07:49:00 pm
^ AGREES WITH GOOSE 1432%
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Carathorn on September 09, 2008, 12:33:00 am
so afan, for how much longer do you plan on kissing Ryan's ass exactly? Because when you give me some date, like any range of 10 days would be great, I know when to return to these boards!

what a fucking spam joke.

(awaits some silly ass 2078 joke because you are "oh so funny")

ACT NORMAL FOR CHRISTS SAKE
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on September 09, 2008, 12:35:00 am
don't leave us Hugo! You are my favorite!
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: the Blueline Goddess on September 09, 2008, 01:36:00 am
McCain says waterboarding isn't torture. Not sure how depriving someone of oxygen via drowinign isn't torture... but hey.

It's really great how the republican party HATED McCain oh, a year ago, but once they realized he was going to be the nominee he's suddenly the greatest American hero that ever lived. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: youseinthehouse on September 09, 2008, 03:07:00 am
I would say that Octo would probably come around to at least fiscal conservatism when he gets a career and starts investing his money. Then I realized he will probably never find out what that means, living in California. Taxes are already so ridiculously high there, even Canada looks like a viable alternative for earning and owning wealths.

When I was in Cali this summer, I didn't notice the grave situation you make it out to be.

The true problem in American politics is the two party system. It's been revamped quite a few times, but always gets pushed back into a 1 on 1 equilibrium. I encourage you American voters out there to thoroughly research your pick. Know where you stand on issues. You're not going to agree with a candidate 100%, but figure out who you align most with. Logically think them out; don't just believe what your parents say or your friends argue for. When you think you reach a decision, read some literature from the OTHER SIDE of the debate. Know your opposing views as well as your own. Don't feel obligated to choose between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. There are other choices, and the sooner we make them, the sooner we can be free from the fetters of an unfair, standstill, two party system where both parties are spending out of control, pandering to get your vote by essentially buying you, and ruining the future of our nation. Don't believe the hype.

(Especially for Obama)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on September 09, 2008, 03:10:00 am
giant douche...turd sandwich...

I VOTE FOR YOUSE IN THIS HIZZOUSE!
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: TheGreatMax on September 12, 2008, 02:21:00 am
I'm not sure you can predict the future with 100 percent accuracy from no matter who gets elected or born on the new years.

*Dam, sorry, can't help but state the obvious truth*

Edit-to be more specific towards the subject how do you know either candidate will keep their promises once in office?  The government(unfortunately sometimes)can't be prosecuted and can be bribed not to impeach.  So how do you know they will be true to their word or accomplish anything?

While I provide no proof of corruption going on now I defer to history and DNA evidence and such as a witness.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Time was untied when set. on September 14, 2008, 05:50:00 pm
Black man doing his thing in the world baby, Barrack Obama, president of getting that ass!!!

Obama for your momma!!!
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on September 14, 2008, 06:30:00 pm
Corey, what's so bad about staying in Iraq? You might be able to argue about why they went in there in the first place, but to leave now would just be shameful. They need to make sure that they took care of their shit. To do otherwise would be an embarrassment to the USA and would show weakness in the US military... something that would possibly tell the terrorists that now is a good time to strike.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: the Blueline Goddess on September 14, 2008, 08:44:00 pm
Ryan, since the beginning of the war the American public has been lied to about our intentions in Iraq. At one point, we were told that AS SOON as we overthrew Saddam, we would hand the country back to the Iraqi people.

Well, we caught Saddam. We helped prosecute him, we handed him over to the Iraqis for punishment, they hung the bastard.

And that was... several years ago. Yet we are still there.

There is NO reason for us to still be there. Us being there is one reason so much of the world hates us - we go places we aren't wanted, all for "freedom!" and other inane buzzwords, and then we overstay our welcome. We have enough problems to fix in America without trying to turn Iraq into America Jr.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on September 14, 2008, 09:00:00 pm
I agree with the fact that it is weird they stayed after they overthrew Saddam since that was indeed what we heard their intentions were, but the fact is they are there now and need to finish whatever they want to do.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: the Blueline Goddess on September 14, 2008, 10:56:00 pm
They aren't doing anything, which is the problem. There is no goal. Well, except to make Iraq exactly like us, I suppose.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Spaceman-Spiff on September 19, 2008, 01:07:00 am
Obama, like the democratic nominees in 2000 and 2004 (and like Mrs. Clinton in the primaries), has rested on his laurels a little bit and started to believe the campaign should be about "the issues." And that really doesn't tend to turn out too well as evidenced with those other politicians just alluded too.

McCain is now doing the character driven thing, and that's being more successful for him (and his party). As is the whole flip flopping on pretty much every thought he had of every major issue to better align his message with that of the fundamental christian base of the republican party. He also has a lot of framing advantages (ie; during a debate a question might be "John McCain has been called a maverick, do you agree with that?" and no matter how Obama or Biden respond the question puts in people's mind that he IS a maverick, despite the point he's voted with Bush 95% of the time. Democrats goal is to get questions like "John McCain has been called a George Bush 'Yes Man,' do you agree with that?), so it is likely we'll see strong polling numbers continue.

Of course, Palin complicates things a little. They got a HUGE bump after she was named, be it because of the novelty, or in some cases commentators coming out in support of McCain now that he was seen to have a more conservative ticket. People like Glen Beck were pretty delighted with her.

But seems somebody fucked up because we've been hearing all this shit trickle out of Alaska ever since, and very little of it is overtly positive about her and her political experience or talent. And there is a very serious chance she could get a promotion in the next 4 years if elected (honestly a part of me wants this to happen because then I could totally see Clinton running in '12 and this whole epic thing happening. I fucking hate both of their political platforms (does Palin actually even have a platform? Or know what the fuck one is?), but for the sheer novelty factor and the articles that would be written, yeah), and it has people concerned. She has a good chance of making or breaking McCain.

I'd definitely lean more towards breaking myself, but jesus fucking christ do americans suck at elections. So we'll have to deal with this for another 2.5 months, and hope Obama/Biden get their shit together.


But seriously, the shit McCain was saying on monday about the economy? How the fuck can anyone support his ticket after that? I mean, maybe if he hadn't have gotten captured by the vietcong he would have had time to learn all about economics and how they relate to the real world, but he fucking didn't and now he can't lift his hands above his head. Yeah, that's really somebody you want running a country on the verge of collapse.

Obama doesn't know a lot of shit either, but good god he is such the lesser of two evils here it is literally insane.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Neo on September 19, 2008, 02:47:00 am
Quote
Obama doesn't know a lot of shit either, but good god he is such the lesser of two evils here it is literally insane.
This this this.



Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on September 20, 2008, 02:24:00 pm
If you honestly think with only 2 parties that you can EVER agree with a candidate 100% then seriously I don't know what you are thinking.

People always concentrate on being so "unique" and then when politicians come around and they can't agree with anyone they complain like bitches. Do we not see the problem here?
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Red Bull on September 20, 2008, 02:31:00 pm
We have a bunch of political parties here, like 10 or so. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on September 20, 2008, 02:37:00 pm
Yep, in Canada we have 5 big ones, we used to have more actually, and a bunch of small ones too. Of course US has a lot of independents and all that but at least in Canada we have 4 or 5 parties that can actually have a voice in the house of commons (like the US congress I think.)

No question that the structure of almost anything US (business, government, education, whatever) is so weak... it's like they're floating on air, and they all massively FAIL compared to other first world G8 nations.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Bizichyld on September 29, 2008, 08:45:00 pm
Obama/Biden > McCain/Piece of Lettuce
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on September 29, 2008, 09:38:00 pm
don't tell me it's "just a coincidence" that Obama/Biden looks EXACTLY like Osama Bin Laden...
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on September 29, 2008, 10:19:00 pm
"No question that the structure of almost anything US (business, government, education, whatever) is so weak... it's like they're floating on air, and they all massively FAIL compared to other first world G8 nations."



stop talking out of your ass just because our nation is in an economic crisis. We have enjoyed some of the worlds richest and most prosperous times, too, and just because things are bad now doesn't mean our nation is going to fall down the shitter forever. Our education system is fine, and its damn hard to keep good stats in education when a HUGE % of the population is immigrants who aren't looking for an education, but rather shit jobs for money they couldn't get across the border, etc. The point is the opportunity to succeed in a nation this large, and that still exists here, despite what may look like lower literacy rates or a falling stock market.

I have faith in this country, and telling us that it sucks because we have two parties is ridiculous. There is nothing anybody can do about that, and it has been highly successful to rise from the ground up. Sure, it might not be optimal, but once you are far down a path, it is hard to suddenly pick another one. Plus, while on some issues republican/democrat draw a line and step on one side of it, there is still a continuum of opinions and ideas that are implemented. We have a republican president, and a democratic majority. We have a very liberal democrat and very liberal republican running, along side a very conservative VP candidate.

The problem isn't some stupid "quantity of parties" but rather the ideologies of those whose voices are heard. We have a setup that works very well, and a mixture of opinions and ideas that are implemented across the nation. Not to mention how state governments vary. CA is a ridic democratic state, with a republican governor, etc. Generalizing america as a nation is one of my biggest peeves, and I don't think anybody outside of this nation has any idea about the diversity crossing state lines here. Both in culture and politics, etc. Maybe I'm biased because california still prospers and could probably stand alone as a nation with our economy, education, etc., even facing cultural diversity issues with the border, and basically haven't even been hit by any of this economic "crisis."




Anyway, Obama still leading the polls, though barely, and I can't *wait* to watch Sarah Palin get obliterated in the debate!
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on September 29, 2008, 11:11:00 pm
"stop talking out of your ass just because our nation is in an economic crisis. We have enjoyed some of the worlds richest and most prosperous times, too, and just because things are bad now doesn't mean our nation is going to fall down the shitter forever."

you enjoyed the most prosperous times ever because they were made of fucking air with no foundations... as seen in this collapse.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on September 30, 2008, 01:37:00 am
Your anti-Americanism loses most ounces of respect I had for you. Anti-Americanism is so filled with ignorance I cannot stand it. I am not patriot, I'll drag a flag on the ground, talk during the national anthem, root for other countries in the Olympics, but people who spend their time worrying about how to put down another nation and their politics could likely find something more constructive and intelligent to do with their time. You read stuff on the internet, assume its as severe as the article says, and blow it up into a huge US-failure as another reason for why this nation "sucks." The fact that the world cares about the US means something on its own. Our economy effects the world economy. Everything here effects how the world works, be it positive or negative. We go to Iraq, other countries follow blindly. Be it good decisions or bad decisions by our government, we have influence in the world, and that is a positive thing for a nation that strives to be a world leader. Every country goes through economic ups and downs, ours is more emphasized on a global scale. I don't think it is a fall as much as it is the world catching up. Many nations took much longer for industrial revolution, and many nations have been able to build on the foundations that the United States laid - and doing things later will naturally mean doing things better. As the world catches up, the United States will appear to fall - I don't think this is a terrible thing. The world, as a majority, is becoming a better place to live. America is not becoming a worse place to live. Costs going up? Wages going up. The dollar going down compared to Canadian dollar? They never adjusted prices on half your stuff, it still costs more. Spending power! Make more in Europe? It costs twice as much to buy ANYTHING in Europe. The same, if not more, opportunities to succeed exist in America today. It is because of the people who choose not to take advantage of this that a nation may suffer as a whole - and this is in part a consequence of the diversity of people that have been "allowed" to start lives in America in the last 50 years as poor and uneducated. The fact they choose to come here says something though, and what they choose to do has no influence on how my life will be, or how yours would be if you were American.

Also, stock market falling =/= permanent collapse. The resources exist to overcome this, and with a new administration this obviously will turn around. -7% in a day wont keep up forever, and as you should know in business, everything goes up and down. There are always big spikes in either direction. To think it will never be recovered is foolish.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on September 30, 2008, 01:40:00 am
how was I being anti-American there? When did I even mention the United States of America?

USA is clearly the most powerful country in the world, most followed, etc etc, so clearly it has to be the "best" overall. I'm actually a fan of the USA and I would move there in a heartbeat right now if I had money since I know the economy will climb back up to be so globally dominant again.

Sorry if it sounded like I was picking on the US in my posts... keep in mind this is a discussion on US politics. If you want to get involved in other nation's politics then I will gladly point out flaws with them, just as I'll point out flaws with Canada.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Red Bull on September 30, 2008, 08:54:00 am
It's funny how octo thinks every criticism towards the US falls under "anti-american." Stop thinking like that please.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Infected Mind on September 30, 2008, 12:38:00 pm
I blame everything thats happening to the usa on bush. Worst president in the history of the world :P, its all his fault imo and hes just gonna run off after it all and have the new president deal with the disaster he created....
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: flukey lukey on September 30, 2008, 01:32:00 pm
http://au.youtube.com/wat...v=La2ziiURO9s&feature=dir (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=La2ziiURO9s&feature=dir)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on September 30, 2008, 02:43:00 pm
Max, having 10 parties is equally bad. In fact, in Canada with only 4 major parties it is very difficult for any to get a majority government (50%). The US is alright with 2 parties because it means there WILL be a majority and shit will get done in the Congress or Senate or whatever, because there will not be over 50% of the people who automatically block the vote because it's not from their party.

I guess this isn't always true as the 700 billion bailout failed but you get the idea (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on September 30, 2008, 07:54:00 pm
To suggest that I am serious about my statement is complete idiocy on your behalf.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on September 30, 2008, 08:17:00 pm
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332)
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332)
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332)
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332)
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332)
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Froll.gif&hash=196327eb634134e9253b02da1d2119d329c46332)
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omfg I can't believe he just said that.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Jack on September 30, 2008, 09:43:00 pm
Don't blame me, I voted for Kang.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: rshepherd1000 on October 01, 2008, 08:09:00 am
so wait

youre telling me mccain is the one running for president?
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Soft-Hedwig on October 01, 2008, 08:42:00 am
Kneesocks 4 prez <3
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on October 01, 2008, 04:06:00 pm
Where's Huckabee these days?

hmmmmmmm?
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 01, 2008, 04:10:00 pm
Huckabee is amazing. I'm sure he will be back in 2012 or 2016 depending on what happens with the bailout tonight, the VP debate tomorrow and whether or not we fuck ouromov in public.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Bizichyld on October 01, 2008, 09:11:00 pm
"don't tell me it's "just a coincidence" that Obama/Biden looks EXACTLY like Osama Bin Laden..."

No it's completely intentional. The terrorists have an ultra top secret classified plan to install an Islamic president, but they have a great sense of humor, so they thought it would be super cool/funny to create a ticket combination that sounds like their leader's name. Unfortunately they underestimated the conspiracy theorists fantastic ability to analyze words and draw obvious associations to other similar sounding words, thus ultimately foiling the evil plot. Way to think outside the box, guys!
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 01, 2008, 09:24:00 pm
I knew it! Thanks for verifying, terrorist insider.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 01, 2008, 11:14:00 pm
why do we need to take away your other knowledge?
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Cervone on October 03, 2008, 12:27:00 am
I live about 3 blocks away from Obama.

Octo, if you don't know about this website, you must check it out: www.fivethirtyeight.com.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 03, 2008, 04:51:00 pm
Biden is just as old as McCain so seriously.

Obama gets shot.

Biden dies of health issues.

Nancy Pelosi is President (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Findifferent.gif&hash=8477f604dbc9b93d541b41fc8c40029181ae2adb)(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Findifferent.gif&hash=8477f604dbc9b93d541b41fc8c40029181ae2adb)(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Findifferent.gif&hash=8477f604dbc9b93d541b41fc8c40029181ae2adb)(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Findifferent.gif&hash=8477f604dbc9b93d541b41fc8c40029181ae2adb)(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Findifferent.gif&hash=8477f604dbc9b93d541b41fc8c40029181ae2adb)(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Findifferent.gif&hash=8477f604dbc9b93d541b41fc8c40029181ae2adb)(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Findifferent.gif&hash=8477f604dbc9b93d541b41fc8c40029181ae2adb)(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Findifferent.gif&hash=8477f604dbc9b93d541b41fc8c40029181ae2adb)(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Findifferent.gif&hash=8477f604dbc9b93d541b41fc8c40029181ae2adb)(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Findifferent.gif&hash=8477f604dbc9b93d541b41fc8c40029181ae2adb)(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Findifferent.gif&hash=8477f604dbc9b93d541b41fc8c40029181ae2adb)(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Findifferent.gif&hash=8477f604dbc9b93d541b41fc8c40029181ae2adb)(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Findifferent.gif&hash=8477f604dbc9b93d541b41fc8c40029181ae2adb)(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Findifferent.gif&hash=8477f604dbc9b93d541b41fc8c40029181ae2adb)(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Findifferent.gif&hash=8477f604dbc9b93d541b41fc8c40029181ae2adb)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 03, 2008, 05:23:00 pm
no President has died in office for over 40 years you say???...
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 03, 2008, 07:32:00 pm
What you're telling me has nothing to do with the likelihood of Obama or McCain dying in office.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: the Blueline Goddess on October 03, 2008, 08:35:00 pm
He didn't say no president has died in office in the last 40 years, he said no president has been killed in 40 years. Quit being retarded, Ryan.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 03, 2008, 08:53:00 pm
well it seems by his stats that you're more likely to be shot than simply die of natural causes. Obama being black, and black leaders having a history of being assassinated, I would only have to imagine Obama is more likely to get killed in office than McCain is to die of cancer.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: l337 on October 04, 2008, 03:27:00 pm

(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi33.tinypic.com%2Faob6sk.jpg&hash=29724118b60bbfb44d9ea464fdc560a5cbfdde6b)  


Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 04, 2008, 03:31:00 pm
but she does have sexiness, and at last count there were 150million+ penises in the USA.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Red Bull on October 04, 2008, 05:19:00 pm
Great picture imo (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ftongue.gif&hash=7cfc888ebd66cf455a55fd5e124ee8267da91148)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: .. on October 05, 2008, 11:13:00 am
Tomorrow is the last day to register to vote in a lot of states, so be sure to go get registered if you aren't yet!
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: the Blueline Goddess on October 05, 2008, 04:00:00 pm
And thank god Goose is ineligible to vote! *rooney*
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 05, 2008, 04:22:00 pm
if I were in the US I'd probably actually vote Ron Paul, with an equal chance of voting for Obama as McCain. Obama is definitely a good leader and it would look great to the rest of the World on the US's part to have a black president who wants the troops out of Iraq and other things like this. imo it doesn't really matter who the President is, since a lot of things will happen regardless. It's more of an image thing.

though I like Ron Paul's political platforms and would probably vote for him.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: the Blueline Goddess on October 05, 2008, 05:09:00 pm
You'd have to write him in then, as Ron Paul is not on the ballot.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 05, 2008, 05:13:00 pm
omg really? I thought he was going to be on the ballot as an independent. Anyways, in that case I'd probably have to vote McCain, or possibly Obama depending on what happens on SNL skits in the next month.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: the Blueline Goddess on October 05, 2008, 05:16:00 pm
Also, "it doesn't really matter who the president is" ? What the fuck, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 05, 2008, 05:20:00 pm
Well for all of those who say "McCain will die and Palin will become President" I ask, what's the worst that can happen with Palin as President? Doesn't seem too terrible to me.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on October 05, 2008, 05:44:00 pm
lol? My friend who supports McCain says his only problem with voting for him is that he could die and Palin ends up in office, lol. It would be THE worst thing ever haha.


anyway, polls looking great for Obama lately. And Goose, you vastly overestimate the number of people who will vote for Palin because she's hot. She's the VP nom, and.. not that good looking, and is well quite frankly a national joke.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 05, 2008, 06:07:00 pm
yeah Obama really has pulled ahead. This is true.

Agreed Palin isn't that hot for a celebrity, but for a US federal politician she is the hottest thing ever seen. She also has two hot daughters so those are always a nice positive too.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: alexaxxem on October 08, 2008, 01:22:00 am
this is how i look at it, no matter who is president... things will/wont be done... they both have pros and cons and they are about equal... im not gonna vote cause i... like 90% of americans dont have a clue whats really going on or who they are voting for... ill let the more educated people vote...
besides... whats one vote going to matter
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 08, 2008, 01:14:00 pm
that's a terrible attitude. Every vote matters. Just read up on their platrforms for 10 minutes and you should be able to see who you like better.

or do like many Americans will be doing this election and look at the color of their skin (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsick.gif&hash=147d83ab69333060437ede2e0058676600b3ea8c)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: alexaxxem on October 08, 2008, 04:16:00 pm
the only reason i said whats one vote matter is cause its funny to me.. its what i tell everyone... no ill go vote, but im not voting for mcain or obama... maybe some independent noob
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Red Bull on October 08, 2008, 04:30:00 pm
I always thought Alex was English! *shocked*
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on October 08, 2008, 10:43:00 pm
eh, goose, whites who vote for mccain because he's "not black" are racist and thus likely republicans (rofl stereotypes), and blacks are.. well a huge majority democrat (lol stereotypes). Its not going to be nearly as big of a deal as you think it will be.

What does concern me is the last minute deciders. Reading quotes from ppl who are undecided saying "I'll likely decide in the booth" are more likely to go toward McCain for experience imo, if Obama's clearly better politics and campaigning haven't won them over by then, compared to McCains absolutely terrible strategies, lack of ability to put any intelligent plan out, etc. He's just getting eaten up, and if people still can't make up their mind by election day after how awful the McCain-Palin has appeared lately in the public eye, I don't think a spur of the moment selection is going for Obama.

Obama is now over a 9:1 favorite on that website, with polls reaching an all time high for him after the debate. I think neither of them were very impressive, but I agree with many analysts: Obama LOOKED like a president. McCain still looks like a sleezeball to me.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 08, 2008, 11:04:00 pm
Obama definitely is more presidential from the public's point of view right now. I agree with the idea that last minute voters will tend towards McCain more than Obama, but it seems like Obama has built up a big enough lead now so these voters won't make the difference.

btw there's nothing wrong with stereotypes, they're made for a reason... the reason being that they're correct more often than not.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on October 09, 2008, 01:22:00 am
Basically all stereotypes are founded on truth, but what I said esp. the first is borderline ignorant, though I do believe what I said to a certain extent.

I'd be shocked if McCain could do anything to make this close. It'll get more interesting I think - McCain has to announce some bullshit plan he'd never be able to follow through on, like ridiculous tax cuts, etc., as things get close in desperation. I hope the public sees whatever he's got left in the tank would be complete shit and a last resort effort to win naive voters.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: the Blueline Goddess on October 09, 2008, 02:28:00 am
Like the last resort effort of announcing Palin as his VP?

*zing*

Seriously though, that whole deal was either a slap in the face of the public, or an insult to the entire female voting population. He somehow thought that all the Hillary supporters would stand up and go "OH HAY THERE'S A CHICK ON THE REPUBLICAN TICKET I MUST VOTE FOR MCCAIN NAO" or some shit. Pretyt much undermined his whole "obama is bad because he has no experience" argument as well.

We'll see if I can go 1/3 in this whole presidential voting thing! (By that, I mean I voted for the "loser" in both 2000 and 2004, so here's to 2008!)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on October 09, 2008, 11:11:00 am
A quote from a McCain supporter:

I fail to understand how people do not understand the appeal of the McCain/Palin ticket. It is the feeling of the return to the true American dream that is exemplified by the inclusion of a governor of Alaska, the last remaining frontier. Historically, people in this country have had a sense of independence and a desire to make their own life. We want to hunt and grow our own food, build our own homes and create our own life for our family and those we care about. We never ask for nor would we accept help from anyone. If a friend or neighbor is in need of help we are willing to do whatever we can to help them.




See, how am I supposed to take his opinion seriously when he's SUCH A MORON. Politics aside, he has a complete contradiction in the last two sentences. And if you like Palin because she's from Alaska, a "frontier state" with HUNTING, you've got some issues. I just can't believe people think like this.

He goes on to talk about being able to give to charity - The rest of his argument talked about not wanting to give universal healthcare, because those who work hard for their money should enjoy better healthcare. Oh, great, such charity from you asshole.

His final line was to follow your religion and vote for McCain.


I just can't stand how people can think they're in with the politics, make a huge essay that contradicts itself about 10 times, and thus ends up making their decision based on religion or a complete misconception about "the american dream" which McCain has preached and this guy bought in to.

A constant reminder that basically no voter actually knows what is best for the country, and just votes for some retarded reason about party line, race, religion, looks, how well they can speak, what the news says about them, etc. Democracy can be a bitch, especially when basically nobody is actually qualified to vote.

I don't claim to know much more myself - but atleast I am making an effort this last few months to figure out more about the state of our nation, and what the candidates stood for. Heck, a few weeks ago I didn't think McCain would be so bad. Now I think it would be simply awful for this country.

Save the "omg I can't vote for a black" last second scare in the voting booths, this *should* be over, and I pray that enough Americans have progressed to forget about it. Analysts are trying to say "if the race-card was going to come into effect, he wouldn't have won the primary" - they forget he was against a woman, and I fear we haven't truly seen how people feel about this in entirety.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 09, 2008, 11:20:00 am
I agree with the fact that very few people are actually qualified to vote, and the only euthanasia I support is euthanasia of stupid and/or inferior people. Defining these people would be difficult, but if done properly it would solve many, if not all of the World's problems.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on October 09, 2008, 02:31:00 pm
Quote from: octoinky
A quote from a McCain supporter:  
 
  I fail to understand how people do not understand the appeal of the McCain/Palin ticket. It is the feeling of the return to the true American dream that is   exemplified by the inclusion of a governor of Alaska, the last remaining frontier. Historically, people in this country have had a sense of independence and   a desire to make their own life. We want to hunt and grow our own food, build our own homes and create our own life for our family and those we care about.   We never ask for nor would we accept help from anyone. If a friend or neighbor is in need of help we are willing to do whatever we can to help them.  
 
 
 
 
  See, how am I supposed to take his opinion seriously when he's SUCH A MORON. Politics aside, he has a complete contradiction in the last two sentences.   And if you like Palin because she's from Alaska, a "frontier state" with HUNTING, you've got some issues. I just can't believe people   think like this.  
 
  He goes on to talk about being able to give to charity - The rest of his argument talked about not wanting to give universal healthcare, because those who   work hard for their money should enjoy better healthcare. Oh, great, such charity from you asshole.  
 
  His final line was to follow your religion and vote for McCain.  
 
 
  I just can't stand how people can think they're in with the politics, make a huge essay that contradicts itself about 10 times, and thus ends up   making their decision based on religion or a complete misconception about "the american dream" which McCain has preached and this guy bought in to.  
 
  A constant reminder that basically no voter actually knows what is best for the country, and just votes for some retarded reason about party line, race,   religion, looks, how well they can speak, what the news says about them, etc. Democracy can be a bitch, especially when basically nobody is actually   qualified to vote.  
 
  I don't claim to know much more myself - but atleast I am making an effort this last few months to figure out more about the state of our nation, and   what the candidates stood for. Heck, a few weeks ago I didn't think McCain would be so bad. Now I think it would be simply awful for this country.  
 
  Save the "omg I can't vote for a black" last second scare in the voting booths, this *should* be over, and I pray that enough Americans have   progressed to forget about it. Analysts are trying to say "if the race-card was going to come into effect, he wouldn't have won the primary" -   they forget he was against a woman, and I fear we haven't truly seen how people feel about this in entirety.

Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on October 09, 2008, 02:32:00 pm
in your last paragraph you said that you pray. who do you pray to?
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 09, 2008, 03:25:00 pm
He prays to random chance that whatever he wants to happen, will happen.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: the Blueline Goddess on October 09, 2008, 04:45:00 pm
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Feyes.gif&hash=332c6dfb5489a00ccf0ea41c1466df8bbde388d9)

Ryan - for someone that claims to hate stupidity so much, you sure bring a shitload of it to the chat/boards.

*in before Ryan's overused reply #74629 of "I do it because it's FUNNY!"*
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Jack on October 09, 2008, 11:21:00 pm
Quote from: the Blueline Goddess
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Feyes.gif&hash=332c6dfb5489a00ccf0ea41c1466df8bbde388d9)  
 
  Ryan - for someone that claims to hate stupidity so much, you sure bring a shitload of it to the chat/boards.  
 
  *in before Ryan's overused reply #74629 of "I do it because it's FUNNY!"*
Actually, I rather think he does it merely to spark discussion. All it takes is an offensive, idiotic, or simply contradictory statement to incite arguement, and therefore discussion, which eventually leads to relevetion which kicks all sorts of ass.

Also, I win.


Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 09, 2008, 11:39:00 pm
I do it because it's funny! LOL DIDN'T YOU LAUGH?

Laughing Cat is not amused. tbqh. pwned.

though laughing cat is voting for Obama, do you know why? Cause he is black.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on October 11, 2008, 01:02:00 am
McCain getting more and more sleazeball every day. Palin is even worse. This whole Ayers thing is completely irrelevant. Yet Palin just got ruled for breaking ethics code as governor? Yikes.

Obama up to 90.9% on fivethirtyeight to win.

And I just changed my voting address today and am encouraging everybody I know to vote.

Heh, on our campus the register to vote booths are all democratic, but I did finally see the first McCain supporter - wearing a McCain Palin 08 shirt. Moron (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 11, 2008, 03:47:00 am
maybe he just does it to be funny. Ever think about THAT?
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Red Bull on October 11, 2008, 04:15:00 am

(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dumpert.nl%2Fmediabase%2Ffoto%2F8a19744f_parahsalin.jpg&hash=88ccb7ed96a77efc71ffdabc42446eb7ccdd5e35)  


Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: rshepherd1000 on October 11, 2008, 06:58:00 am
Quote from: octoinky
A constant reminder that basically no voter actually knows what is best for the country, and just votes for some retarded reason about party line, race,   religion, looks, how well they can speak, what the news says about them, etc. Democracy can be a bitch, especially when basically nobody is actually   qualified to vote.
this

Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on October 11, 2008, 02:32:00 pm
Red Bull WINS!

(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Flaugh.gif&hash=657f1346088ce2081c398c7379c3a47e4cf5861b)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 15, 2008, 10:26:00 pm
Democrats help poor people. Black people are poor. Seems straightforward to me.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on October 15, 2008, 11:28:00 pm
While McCain looked FINE in tonight's debate, he didn't do what was needed. He is obviously the inferior candidate as far as the American public's opinion is concerned, and a HUGE opportunity to change that just flew by him. While he did improve, all Obama has to do is sit on his ass and not mess up. He's doing a good job of that - he's basically shoving McCains words back at him, keeping his cool, and letting McCain look like the frantic, flustered, angry old chap he is.

I expect polls to confirm this in the next few days.


My favorite part was about negative campaigning. McCain says Obama has spent more on negative campaigning than any nominee in US History.
1) inflation
2) he's spent the most on ads in general
3) downplaying your policy isn't a negative ad, CALLING THE OTHER A TERRORIST IS

For McCain to even pretend his campaign isn't downright disgusting and over the line is absurd. Granted, its what he needs to do - when over 50% of the population support Obama, he has to change that, not win over independents. Meanwhile, Obama is on cruise control.


I am a bit hesitant about Obama's health care plan, but we'll have to see.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 16, 2008, 12:02:00 am
so him saying Obama has spent the most on negative campaigning isn't untrue, it just sounds better than it is, if you're a McCain supporter.

but isn't politics almost entirely saying things that are true but sound better than they are??
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on October 16, 2008, 01:53:00 am
right, his statement was probably correct. But the message he was trying to get across was totally bogus and hypocritical, and it just bugs me that most viewers are too retarded to see that.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on October 16, 2008, 01:59:00 am
are YOU *points finger at Octoinky* gonna run for president one day???

the reason i say that is because out of all the people here that chat about the upcoming election, you seem to have the biggest passion about. im not sayin that i agree with you or disagree, you just seem REALLY into it, and that's not bad at all. so, seriously, do you have a future in politics?
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 16, 2008, 03:45:00 am
I want to be a politician. I think I would be perfect for it. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on October 16, 2008, 10:09:00 am
Nah, I don't particularly like politics. I check the election stuff and news for a while each day though. I'm pretty anti-McCain/Palin more than pro-Obama, and I think it would be disastrous for them to win the election. So that's why I'm into it so much this election year
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: the Blueline Goddess on October 17, 2008, 03:06:00 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5SWQJWm6Tg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5SWQJWm6Tg)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 18, 2008, 08:42:00 pm
in general, Negros are poorer than white people. Democrats' platform mainly is to steal from the rich, hardworking people and give it to the poor, unproductive people. It's not fucking rocket science.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on October 18, 2008, 08:53:00 pm
Ehhhhh, its not giving it to the poor, unproductive people, but rather helping the middle class have a better quality of life. You should understand from economics about utility, and taking $100,000 from a ridiculously rich people and giving $1,000 to 100 people increases social utility. Democratic ideas of "spreading wealth" are about increasing the overall utility, or general well-being, of the country. Tax breaks to the poor is a very small absolute change. And while relative change is equal when you talk about tax cuts, there is no "relative pricing" of goods (well, some, but not that much) - give a poor person $100 and they can't do much, if anything, more.

The real gains when you talk about a tax cut are for people who make enough money to actually see a difference in their annual "profit" - these are successful people, but not the ridiculously rich, who can vastly improve their life by using the money for better health coverage, etc., people who democrats say deserve that.

I see nothing wrong with "stealing from the rich." If I'm rich someday, sure it'd suck paying taxes, but when you are rich, you have the padding and I would understand that. A tax increase on the rich is pulling from their SAVINGS, or their equivalent portfolios etc., their general wealth, but not money they are using to actually spend (if a rich person is spending all their money, they deserve to have it taken away). That money isn't being used to increase their quality of life except the smile on their face when they see $4,000,000 when they look at their investments. Whereas the middle class sees a DIRECT increase in quality of life - and the general idea is that these people do things that help themselves such as send a child to college or health insurance etc, not spend frivolously (which, yes, a lot of people would do with more money). But to say its giving to the "poor" is just wrong.

Poor, unsuccessful people will likely always be poor and unsuccessful. To align your party views with the idea that democrats will take money from the intelligent and give it to them is just wrong. People still get what they deserve - and plenty of it - but robin hood DOES increase the overall well-being of an economy, and that is supported by research (both the concavity of utility functions of wealth and Jensen's Inequality are proven and assumed in economic models).



Just my opinion, of course. I'm no tax-specialist or know much about specific tax policies, just am rather using a more mathematical and economical view to asses what would come from a theoretical "5% tax cut to the bottom rungs and 5% increase to the top" or something (robin hood).
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 18, 2008, 09:00:00 pm
yeah, that was interesting. I can definitely see what you mean, coming from an upper-middle class family a few extra grand would help a lot.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on October 18, 2008, 09:27:00 pm
uh i was always taught that if you wanna eat-go earn your wages. dont expect handouts. go make your own money. obv there are special instances where there might be a need though
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: the Blueline Goddess on October 19, 2008, 01:56:00 am
Okay, but what happens to the person who is laid off and can't find another job because the economy stinks?
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 19, 2008, 01:58:00 am
then they're not good enough to get a job and that's quite unfortunate.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on October 19, 2008, 05:27:00 am
like i said...there ARE special instances... (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on October 19, 2008, 03:57:00 pm
I'm sorry but 90% of Bush's policies probably don't even effect day to day life for a US Citizen, nor do we know anything about those bills. That stat is worthless (and precisely what the commercials say). It is very clear that McCain isn't Bush - there are a million other reasons he should lose this election. The main being, with the state of our economy a republican candidate simply is at a huge disadvantage. Before the crash, the polls were a LOT closer.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: the Blueline Goddess on October 19, 2008, 04:02:00 pm
How about you quit saying verbatim what the political ads tell you, and instead formulate your own responses?

I'm sure Obama has voted for Bush policies, just as McCain has voted against Bush policies. The politics world isn't that black and white, and until you know which policies were voted on by McCain you really don't know just how close to Bush he really is.

For example, just a year ago McCain was courted by the Democrats, who wanted him to jump to their side. The Republicans have been unhappy with McCain on their side for some time as well - in most respects, he is a very liberal Republican. However, once it became clear he was their best chance to get in the white house, his party began embracing him and forgetting that they didn't see eye to eye on a lot of things.

McCain has flip-flopped quite vigorously on the issue of stem-cell research, one speech he'll be for it and then the next rattle on about the sanctity of life. He tries to please too many people at one time, hoping that neither side is paying attention. His whole act of calling pro-choicers "pro-abortion" during the debate last week was pretty thoughtless as well, as I don't know anyone who is pro-abortion (in fact, most pro-choice people that I do know, including myself, would prefer that abortions didn't have to happen, but that the CHOICE should exist regardless). He was trying to chalk up points for the fundies by using the term "pro-abortion" when I really think he ended up aggravating a fair number of people on both sides of the political spectrum.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on October 19, 2008, 05:06:00 pm
hmmm...the whole abortion issue is a tricky-stick indeed. so unfortunate that so many in the US alone every year have to needlessly die (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)

abortions ( I M O ! ! ! ) should not go unchecked-why kill the innocent? just one nugget in a vast argument is that in the instance of rape victims, i feel that the rapist should be put to death, not the innocent life.

i, of coarse could lay out supporting scripture as to why i believe this and if anyone cares to comment on it, than please do so in the "religion" thread in the GC forums

but after all is said and done, abortion is a nasty and heart-wrenching business
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 19, 2008, 08:56:00 pm
because the middle east is evil and those people who live there are terrorists by nature.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on October 19, 2008, 09:05:00 pm
c'mon goose...you know thats not true and not really that funny either

btw check out the 'what are you watching' thread over in FFA!
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 19, 2008, 09:53:00 pm
eh, I think it's true.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: the Blueline Goddess on October 20, 2008, 05:13:00 pm
The government has no right telling a woman what she can/can't do. There are many circumstances where forcing a woman to carry a baby to term is punishing her for circumstances beyond her control. As I said, in a perfect world there would be no need for abortion, but our world sucks. Again, the pro-choice belief isn't that every woman should have an abortion, it's that the option should exist for her to make for whatever reason she so wants, as it's of no one's concern but hers. I could point out the fact that the adoption system is so FUBAR'd that saying that adoption is a better choice than abortion (not to mention the fact that that train of thought makes women out to be nothing more than vessels to carry children), but I'll leave it at that. I do find it funny that the people I tend to argue with the most on the abortion issue are MEN, who are NOT AFFECTED IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM by abortion. If men got pregnant, abortion wouldn't even be an issue, you could probably get scraped while getting your hair cut!

Anyway, my mail-in ballot came today, and I thought I'd share with the class the fact that Colorado has 16 (SIXTEEN) candidates listed for president. So anyone in Colorado who pulls the "I don't want to vote for the lesser of two evils" needs to pull their head out of their ass and realize there are 14 other choices! Here's the list, some of the party names are pretty lol (Boston Tea?!):

Barack Obama/Joe Biden (Democrat)
John McCain/Sarah Palin (Republican)
Chuck Baldwin/Darrell L. Castle (Constitution)
Bob Barr/Wayne A. Root (Libertarian)
Cynthia McKinney/Rosa A. Clemente (Green)
Jonathan E. Allen/Jeffrey D. Stath (HeartQuake '08)
Gene C. Amondson/Leroy J. Pletten (Prohibition)
James Harris/Alyson Kennedy (Socialist Workers)
Charles Jay/Dan Sallis Jr. (Boston Tea)
Alan Keyes/Brian Rohrbough (America's Independent)
Gloria La Riva/Robert Moses (Socialism and Liberation)
Bradford Lyttle/Abraham Bassford (U.S. Pacifist)
Frank Edward McEnulty/David Mangan (Unaffiliated)
Brian Moore/Stewart Alexander (Socialist USA)
Ralph Nader/Matt Gonzalez (Unaffiliated)
Thomas Robert Stevens/Alden Link (Objectivist)

ANyone in any other states getting a mail-in, let me know how many you get, because I heard from a friend in another state that she only had 4 options, and I find that very interesting.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on October 20, 2008, 09:16:00 pm
Sorry Corey. There are some guys (like me) who, when walking into a room, cause irrational decision making from many females.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on October 21, 2008, 02:24:00 am
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Flaugh.gif&hash=657f1346088ce2081c398c7379c3a47e4cf5861b)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: .. on November 03, 2008, 10:42:00 am
If you haven't voted yet, don't forget to tomorrow!  I'll be at the polls at the crack of dawn to cast my ballot, but right now I'm going to cast my prediction on how the Electoral Votes will fall.

---

First I'll give each candidate the states which are locks for them.  The number in parentheses is the number of Electoral Votes in that state, and remember, it takes 270 to win the election.

---

John McCain LOCKS:
Alaska (3)
Alabama (9)
Arkansas (6)
Arizona (10)
Georgia (15)
Idaho (4)
Kansas (6)
Kentucky (8)
Louisiana (9)
Mississippi (6)
Nebraska (5)
Oklahoma (7)
South Carolina (8)
South Dakota (3)
Tennessee (11)
Texas (34)
Utah (5)
West Virginia (5)
Wyoming (3)

Total: 157

Barack Obama LOCKS:
California (55)
Connecticut (7)
District of Columbia (3)
Delaware (3)
Hawaii (4)
Iowa (7)
Illinois (21)
Massachusetts (12)
Maryland (10)
Maine (4)
Michigan (17)
Minnesota (10)
New Hampshire (4)
New Jersey (15)
New Mexico (5)
New York (31)
Oregon (7)
Rhode Island (4)
Vermont (3)
Washington (11)
Wisconsin (10)

Total: 243

---

This puts Obama just 27 electoral votes from victory.  Here are the remaining "battleground" states:

Colorado (9)
Florida (27)
Indiana (11)
Missouri (11)
Montana (3)
North Carolina (15)
North Dakota (3)
Nevada (5)
Ohio (20)
Pennsylvania (21)
Virginia (13)

---

Colorado has been leaning Obama for the past month, and there's no reason to think that trend will suddenly stop on election day.  Add to that the fact that over half of their ballots are already in through early voting and it's pretty likely that Obama is taking this one.  I'll safely put this into the Obama side, giving him a lead of 252-157 now.

Nevada has been leaning Obama all month, and his campaigning there in the waning days of the election only serve to help.  McCain will put up a good fight, but I don't think he can take this one from Barack. 257-157

...Let's make things interesting and skip around a bit...

Montana and North Dakota are usually Republican strongholds, though Obama has made a great deal of progress this election.  They've both been fairly ignored as of late while the candidates campaign in the "big" states, so that may hurt Obama's incredible ground game.  I'll put these in the McCain camp, making it 257-163

Indiana WAS a virtual tie many times the past few weeks, though it looks as if the strong rural Republican delegation will help to cancel out a lot of Obama's support from the big cities.  I'll give this one to McCain, only for history's sake, as I'm not sold that it's anything but a dead heat right now. 257-174

...and now we're done with the drama...

Missouri, North Carolina, and Florida are all up in the air right now.  That's good for Obama.  What's also good for Obama is he has significant leads in Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Virginia, winning any of which will give him the 270 needed to win.  My gut tells me that McCain will take Florida and Missouri but Obama will take Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and North Carolina putting my final tally at 326-212 and a new President-Elect, Barack Obama.

---

Here's my completed map for easy viewing.  Play with the map yourself at http://www.270towin.com/ (http://www.270towin.com/)

(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg118.imageshack.us%2Fimg118%2F3326%2F2008electoralmapcm0.png&hash=2e0531c005b767c75c9739f2d0484ceddc009b1c)

Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Quiet Bol on November 03, 2008, 02:28:00 pm
I made my map but I won't bother posting because it's the same as yours except with Florida to Obama, resulting in a 353-185 win.

However, I found this interesting from 538: it's "by far" the most likely McCain victory scenario, occurring in 169 of 10,000 simulations ran yesterday.

(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3141%2F2997267544_8e0be70bcc_o.png&hash=caee9c01a45a30032438fcedba36e4fe40e0f5c9)

Lastly, you know I've got some bets on this mutha!

New Hampshire: Obama - Risked $425 to win $50
Virginia: Obama - Risked $375 to win $50
Texas: McCain - Risked $700 to win $50
Arkansas: McCain - Risked $600 to win $50
South Dakota: McCain - Risked $500 to win $50
North Dakota: McCain - Risked $137.50 to win $50
West Virginia: McCain - Risked $412.50 to win $66
Montana: McCain - Risked $150 to win $50
Louisiana: McCain - Risked $750 to win $58
Georgia: McCain - Risked $175 to win $50
Mississippi: McCain - Risked $1250 to win $50
New Mexico: Obama - Risked $900 to win $50
South Carolina: McCain - Risked $700 to win $50
Tennessee: McCain - Risked $1500 to win $50
Wisconsin: Obama - Risked $1075.13 to win $35.84

And in the main event, Obama to win the general election - Risked $2625 to win $500

Total: Risked $12275.13 to win $1259.84

Gogo chalk!
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on November 03, 2008, 06:32:00 pm
you bet on wayyyyyy too many -odds there. I am not a fan.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: alexaxxem on November 03, 2008, 06:51:00 pm
poor people will vote for obama... just the way it is... and majority of blacks will vote for him too... im not being racist but thats how things usually go
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on November 03, 2008, 07:13:00 pm
Yeah, because we usually have black guys running from the cops, er I mean for President.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Ngamer on November 03, 2008, 11:19:00 pm
Ngamer Says...

Percentage Prediction Challenge
Barack Obama - 52.44%
John McCain - 45.36%
Third party candidates - 2.20%

Popular Vote Prediction Challenge
Barack Obama - 69,745,211
John McCain - 60,328,835
Third party candidates - 2,926,219

State by State Prediction Challenge
Alabama - McCain 57%
Alaska - McCain 64%
Arizona - McCain 56%
Arkansas - McCain 52%
California - Obama 61%
Colorado - Obama 52%
Connecticut - Obama 57%
Delaware - Obama 55%
District of Columbia (DC) - Obama 91%
Florida - McCain 51%
Georgia - McCain 53%
Hawaii - Obama 56%
Idaho - McCain 66%
Illinois - Obama 62%
Indiana - McCain 56%
Iowa - Obama 51%
Kansas - McCain 59%
Kentucky - McCain 57%
Louisiana - McCain 53%
Maine - Obama 55%
Maryland - Obama 58%
Massachusetts - Obama 64%
Michigan - Obama 50%
Minnesota - Obama 52%
Mississippi - McCain 55%
Missouri - McCain 56%
Montana - McCain 52%
Nebraska - Mccain 63%
Nevada - McCain 49%
New Hampshire - Obama 51%
New Jersey - Obama 55%
New Mexico - McCain 49%
New York - Obama 59%
North Carolina - McCain 53%
North Dakota - McCain 59%
Ohio - McCain 50%
Oklahoma - McCain 63%
Oregon - Obama 53%
Pennsylvania - Obama 51%
Rhode Island - Obama 60%
South Carolina - McCain 53%
South Dakota - McCain 60%
Tennessee - McCain 54%
Texas - McCain 58%
Utah - McCain 72%
Vermont - Obama 59%
Virginia - McCain 50%
Washington - Obama 54%
West Virginia - McCain 54%
Wisconsin - Obama 53%
Wyoming - McCain 66%

McCain loses two Bush '04 stats in close battles: Colorado and Iowa, but comes through with clutch victories in Bush states Virgina, Ohio, Florida, Nevada and New Mexico to send Obama down to a narrow defeat. McCain is easily defeated in the overall popular vote, however, due to Obama's increased popularity in California and New York while McCain loses ground versus native son Bush in Texas. Also, black voters across the South cause those races to tighten up considerably, but not to the point where the states swing to Obama.

Electoral College Prediction Challenge
Winner - John McCain with 270

Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on November 04, 2008, 12:07:00 am
Race will hardly tighten, there is no Bradley effect, and Obama blows out McCain, who will go near suicidal for losing to a black man. And thus ends the most pathetically run, disgusting campaign I've witnessed in my short lifetime.

I voted a few weeks ago. There were 5 presidential pairs, I believe.



I'm probably just as interested in Prop 8, where a large push has brought the Yes campaign in striking distance. I voted a firm no - and would gladly punch basically anybody here in the face who would vote yes.


Its time America takes a new direction, too many racist, closed minded, ignorant people in this country. I'm very excited that a black man is now 98% to win the election according to 538, and that while not all McCain supporters will fall into this bracket, am even more glad that a good chunk (5%) of the population will be utterly pissed off that a black man beat their good 'ole "war hero" because they haven't wrapped themselves around the direction the civilized world has been going for a while.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on November 04, 2008, 12:12:00 am
We've had this discussion before octo. Civilization and progress will only lead to the destruction of human kind, whereas conservatism and old values, while of course having it's problems (ie: racism) will lead to the further, more lasting development of humanity.

This is why you should vote McCain. Obama wants you to think of your children and grand children. McCain's ideology is better for your great great great great great grandchildren and beyond... and you will have a lot more of those than just plain old children.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: DavidK5 on November 04, 2008, 12:32:00 am
In honor of tomorrow's historic election and as a tribute to America, I present Charlie Kelly's America Song:

I'm gonna rise up!
Gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA
Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle!
I'm gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck
I'm gonna rule this world, I'm gonna kick some ass
I'm gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass...
ROCK FLAG AND EAGLE! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffi.somethingawful.com%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Femot-911.gif&hash=c0e0e744893ecd65faa1be50897de8fe336d7756)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: the Blueline Goddess on November 04, 2008, 01:33:00 am
Corey, you seriously believe that all abortions come as a result of unprotected sex? You don't realize that birth control can (and does) fail, and a woman taking all the precautions to ensure she doesn't have a child may end up pregnant?

What about the rape or incest victim?

There aren't nearly as many women using abortion as birth control as the far-right wants you to believe.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: afanoftheKing on November 04, 2008, 04:23:00 am
in regards to rape/incest victim-the solution is OBVIOUS-KILL the rapist, NOT the innocent child! you've got to be kidding me!

btw-sex makes babies, or didn't you know that Blueline Goddess? that's what sex was DESIGNED to do! that's it's purpose!!! OBV it presents great pleasure, but if it were a perfect world, it would only be happening to those who are married (as was DESIGNED!) and thus producing that which is a blessing beyond words...new life!!! and OBV this isn't said perfect world, but people are so blind to their own immorality that "oh, of course!!! let's kill the baby because that's easier! let's NOT worry about our own responsibilities, screw those, we don't need responsibilities" if people would try to use 1/2 the brain that God gave them, then who knows, we may not even need to be having this harrowing and saddening conversation.

plain and simple in my book-YOU KILL A BABY (OR ANYONE FOR THAT MATTER) YOU DIE NEXT! PERIOD! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fmad.gif&hash=a7d299cdc47984306fa32671e3a59bcf63c85b4c)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Carathorn on November 04, 2008, 07:11:00 am
you are bringing the Religion topic into this topic.

"Sex was desinged for this and that" etc etc

we already know what the bible says about it, so lets not start this discussion in here as well. the title reads "McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion! "
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: SimThreat on November 04, 2008, 09:58:00 am

Owned.

Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: afanoftheKing on November 04, 2008, 11:44:00 am
so be it Cara, think for 2 seconds and you will conclude that everybody that votes, or even discusses voting, brings what they believe to the table. this isn't a difficult concept to understand...at least for the average intelligent person. here's a notion, YOU VOTE FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN! wow, that is amazing! btw what are you even doing in this thread? what concern do you have with the good ol USA? just curious...
Owned. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Feyes.gif&hash=332c6dfb5489a00ccf0ea41c1466df8bbde388d9)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: wheatrich on November 04, 2008, 12:12:00 pm
Obama wins big despite the fact that college kids although they will show up will have to wait 2+ hours to vote because of shit facilities (at least the colleges I've been to have too few booths and inadequate facilities for the entire student body and this was before this kind of election) thus discouraging them and then they leave (like they have class or something) then giving more fodder to their opponents saying "well they didn't show up to vote again".

I also can't wait for the delays due to a zillion people showing up and being too stupid to realize they never registered to vote in this election.

Everyone in the world should care who wins this as it will impact them however indirectly it may seem to afan. The US economy correlates directly to economies across the world as we've seen recently.

My state had 5 candidates on it's ballot. Colorado is a whore with presidential candidates apparently.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Carathorn on November 04, 2008, 12:22:00 pm
whatever afan. its just totally annoying you keep bringing your chistianity to every topic. there is no need to do that imo. there was just a louzy remark about something and yet you immediately just at it with your ever lasting confictions bladiebla, like a child that sees a fucking candy on the street.

im going to vote for no religion on these boards anymore anyway, this is getting RIDICULOUS. THIS IS VIDEOGAME COMMUNITY.

ok. one more time: THIS IS VIDEOGAME COMMUNITY.

edit: dont think im like a hateful person, because im not. I've never been like this against any person on the boards and everyone who has been here for a long time, can confirm that.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Red Bull on November 04, 2008, 12:40:00 pm
"btw-sex makes babies, or didn't you know that Blueline Goddess?"

Din mor sucking my cock doesn't make babies IMO.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: rshepherd1000 on November 04, 2008, 01:55:00 pm
this thread needs to stay on topic
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on November 04, 2008, 04:19:00 pm
God bless Hugo and God bless America!

*B-2 Spirit flies over*

Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Lark on November 04, 2008, 05:01:00 pm
I voted for Obama today.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Neo on November 05, 2008, 12:16:00 am
PRESIDENT OBAMA
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on November 05, 2008, 01:25:00 am
God bless Barack and God bless America!
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Time was untied when set. on November 05, 2008, 02:13:00 am
I voted for the winner. (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on November 05, 2008, 02:20:00 am
God bless David Clemens and God bless America!
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Ngamer on November 05, 2008, 03:45:00 am
Interesting result... America elects a new president who some considered the most liberal member of the Senate in this last term, and yet many of the propositions resulted in conservative-minded victories across the country.  Gay marriage was voted down in California, Arizona, Florida, and even gay adoption was voted down in Arkansas.  Some are calling this election one step forward and three steps back for the country in terms of acceptance.

Regarding what happened to kill off the gay marriage props, as I mentioned in Chat, the exit poll data gives us somewhat ironic data...

(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy201%2FMINIggy03%2Fprop8.jpg&hash=85fc3d4b457737d7536104da99df0fb2eefe80d7)

Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Smit on November 05, 2008, 04:23:00 am
Good change will come to the United States of America, and we will all feel it (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on November 05, 2008, 04:27:00 am
you're a big racist/prejudice/bigot, whatever you want to call it Eise, for discriminating on religious people all the time.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Smit on November 05, 2008, 04:42:00 am
I am not discriminating, you can agree with me that good change will come right? That thing of Obama I postedw was something you probably already heard, what harm is there in me posting it here again? But I will remove it anyway.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on November 05, 2008, 05:12:00 am
rofl at removing it. You're not offending anyone, I just wanted to make sure you knew you were an asshat.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Wouter Jansen on November 05, 2008, 08:09:00 am
Your favorite hat!
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on November 05, 2008, 11:02:00 am
I completely disagree, Jon. Today was a giant step forward and a small step back. The complete nonexistence of a Bradley Effect, overwhelming support across the nation for Obama, excitement of basically all media, the entire world, basically every major city in this country for Obama is incredible. I honestly believe the only people who could legitimately call this Obama thing a step backwards are backwards themselves, and don't deserve a voice in a society that has become this accepting. No matter what you think of his politics, this is great for America and great for the world, and to deny otherwise would be quite astonishing.

However on the gay bans, it is to be expected with such religious fanatic shit all over still. It's all the same thing, same groups of people, I don't think you can call that three steps back. America has prejudiced blacks, womens, and now gays. There will be a time that we look back and once again scorn the ignorant and unaccepting for passing these laws, but these days WILL pass.

I can respect people who voted yes on those bans for a LEGITIMATE religious reason. But anybody who claims it is "for the family" can go to hell themselves. And the adoption one just makes throw up, they can all rot in hell too. The truth is, 90% of the people gay bashing / voting yes on these measures CALL themselves religious, but are the worst "insert religion here" there is and don't deserve to call themselves religious. Just hypocritical to use that as a fallback for why they are intolerant and homophobic, and feel it is their place to put restrictions on other people because they are different.

I have faith, however, that this country will continue to take large steps forward in equality. While religion may always hold some people's open mindedness back, racism will always exist in this country and in the world, our nation as a whole is making large steps forward to put those people in the minority, and for the worldwide media and the rest of our nation to look down upon them. The day has come when it is finally "worse" to be racist than to be black - and the racists in this country are probably so pissed off right now, and I love it.

Give it 10 years, 20 years, but no more - gays will have equality in this nation, to the best of the law's ability at least. The problem with a lot of these measures passing is who cares to vote for them. Such a small part of the population is gay, and the ANTI-gay are the ones who want their voice heard. San Francisco turnout was poor, while the rural backwards areas of CA had high turnouts for proposition 8, etc.

Anyway, good job Obama, good job America, burn in a hole Arkansas, and I HOPE this helps make our country and the world a better place over the next 4 years.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: alexaxxem on November 05, 2008, 01:22:00 pm
I dont care at all if gays get married ,sounds perfect, I do however dont think gay adoption should be aloud lol. Unless the kid can speak for himself, if I was adopted by gay parents, i would shoot myself. Arkansas, wow.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Ngamer on November 05, 2008, 01:33:00 pm
Hm, now that I look over the rest of these propositions, the results WERE pretty liberal for the most part. Pro-abortion measures were passed in CA, South Dakota, and Colorado, Michigan supported both marijuana and stem cell research, and doctor-assisted suicide won big in Washington state. The only thing people across the country seem to be taking a hard stand against is homosexuality.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: alexaxxem on November 05, 2008, 01:46:00 pm
doctor-assisted suicide wow thats kinda cool... for those who need it... our county passed the sale of alcohol... so now our county is wet
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on November 05, 2008, 02:43:00 pm
I disagree with octo entirely on the gay issues. To be honest, octo doesn't give a rats ass about gay rights, he just wants to make himself look like he's supports gay rights to appear "strong willed" and "democratic." It's a complete PR scheme to gain respect from others.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Carathorn on November 05, 2008, 03:26:00 pm
yeah and your statement is solely based on creating arguments (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: rshepherd1000 on November 05, 2008, 04:50:00 pm
Despite the farce that politics is, obama winning is one of the most important moments in history.

McCain voters probably have fair reasons (i hope), which i cant grasp myself due to zero knowledge of us domestic politics. However Id guess that if everyone else in the world could also have their say, Obama would still have held him to under 60million votes.

Question: Would Hilary have beaten McCain?
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Ngamer on November 05, 2008, 05:28:00 pm
Well that depends. Are we assuming Hilary beats Obama cleanly in the primaries and has time to unite the party behind her? If so, yes, I think she wins this with room to spare. But if we're talking about Hilary having lost to Obama in the primaries (as took place), but then getting the nomination due to strong arming the super-delegates or forcing a revote in FL in order to get the delegate number she needed, that would have been such a fiasco that I doubt the party would have recovered in time to defeat McCain.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on November 05, 2008, 05:46:00 pm
If Hilary was the nominee, McCain does not pick Palin as VP and picks Romney or another competent man. Easy win for McCain in this case.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Carathorn on November 05, 2008, 05:48:00 pm
I think Clinton would have destroyed Mccain in the debates so hardcore, that that alone would have lead her to victory. As far as I can tell, the nomination-period was really quickly left behind when Obama turned out to be the favorite.

but yeah it would have been a closer race for sure, but still I think she would have won.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Cervone on November 05, 2008, 06:46:00 pm
As to the discrepancy between electing a liberal candidate and passing more conservative state laws that Jon was trying to point out, I think that regardless of which way you lean politically it's a MAJOR step forward that our elections are no longer dominated by such irrelevant issues (stem cell research, abortion, creationism, etc) like some have been in the past. Honestly, I don't give a fuck about gay marriage, and I think that with our economy and world status falling pretty quickly, it would be a shame if we picked the next president based on a semantic difference that only impacts directly a tiny percentage of the electorate.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on November 05, 2008, 09:15:00 pm
California actually had 12 propositions, most of which pertained to education, the economy, transportation, veterans affairs, and renewable energy. I'm sure every state was like that, just the crazy debated stuff (that seems to always stem around religion...) get the coverage.


Reverse the roles of Hillary and Obama from day 1, and Hillary wins, too. Race was a non-issue in this election, age was. All McCain had going was experience, so does Hillary. Bill Clinton was arguably one of the best presidents in history, and the Clinton name carries a lot with it. Sure, Hillary may have lost a few states that Obama barely carried - maybe even some of those key ones like FL and IN or NC, but I think she still wins the election. Would have been close. Fact is, Republicans were in an immediate hole to start this election season, McCain really didn't bring much at all to add to the republican party, etc.


The only way a republican was winning this election is if the democrats put a black man in it - oops, didn't work either. McCain was not winning this election, against anybody politically competent enough to win a fair democratic primary nomination.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on November 05, 2008, 09:16:00 pm
^^ and if race were a non-issue, I'd have to assume gender wouldn't have been as big of an issue, either.  No data to back it up, but I'd be willing to bet that women have done better than blacks in politics, historically.  At the senate level and below, of course, as this was irrelevant for presidency until a year ago.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on November 05, 2008, 10:03:00 pm
McCain + not Palin vs Hilary or John Edwards + whoever would have been a victory to the republicans, imo.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: the Blueline Goddess on November 05, 2008, 10:36:00 pm
Pro-abortion? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? There is no such thing as a "pro-abortion" act or person. "Pro-abortion" is a fucking term coined by the pro-life (oh wait, the ANTI-CHOICE) group to make themselves appear mightier than anyone else.

Amendment 48 in Colorado was called the "Personhood Amendment". Under this amendment, they wanted to change the Colorado Constitution to define a fertilized egg as a person. What this meant long term was birth control would be outlawed, as most forms of BC prohibit a fertilized egg from implanting onto the uterine wall (condoms being the one big exception, but the pill, the depo shot, IUDs and so forth do just that). The stupid bitch of a 21-year-old law student who put this on the ballot tried to act all innocent when asked if she was trying to overturn Roe vs. Wade or outlaw birth control by saying she was just trying to "protect the rights of everyone" (while amazingly taking away rights from EVERY WOMAN in Colorado!).

That is why the voters overwhelmingly voted No on Amendment 48.

I want someone to show me a woman who goes out, fucks around, gets pregnant and gets abortions time and time again, you know, the so-called "abortion as birth control" woman that the pro-lifers seem to think exists. Seriously. Find me PROOF that ONE woman does this. You guys seem to think that a woman can go get an abortion as easily as she can go to the post office. You will instead find women who took precautions and got pregnant through no fault of their own, or women who were raped, or women who refused to bring a child into a shitty situation.

As for gay parents... I'd rather a child grows up with two wonderful, loving gay parents than in with two abusive straight parents. Being gay isn't genetic, however there are oodles of studies to show that kids who grow up in abusive homes will be abusive to THEIR kids. In a world where the adoption system is ROYALLY fucked, to take out the one majority where kids will be adopted (because, you know, a gay couple can't have kid biologically) is not only stupid but sad. (I have a story of a gal who was put up for adoption, abused terribly by her adopted parents who then GAVE HER AWAY AT A BAR TO COMPLETE STRANGERS. Luckily those strangers turned out to be loving and changed her life around). Really, a kid doesn't care if they have two dads, two moms, one of each, or just one parent. As long as the kid feels safe, secure and loved, that's all that matters, and I weep for our country when we can't look past what two consenting adults wish to do in their private life.

And Shawn? I'm sterile. Therefore sex isn't about making babies as far as I'm concerned. It's impossible. OH NOES.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: octoinky on November 05, 2008, 11:27:00 pm
I disagree, but I guess we'll never know, Goose.





Most anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-whatever have no clue what they're talking about or what is best for the individuals, but rather use opinions that are formed from other prejudices such as the bible, their family, society, whatever, and vote along those lines.

You tell me straight that it is worse for a non-religious person to get raped and have an abortion, than it would have been for her to ruin her own life even more by having that child? Remember, she's not religious, she wants the abortion. Voters use their own beliefs to make a decision for other people - they vote against abortion, but the fact is, they'll never need to make the choice. They've made their choice, by religion already, so why try to force it on other people? Not everybody is religious, and shouldn't be treated under your standards. I'll stand by it, it is BETTER for a non religious person who wants an abortion after being raped and assaulted. Not better in God's eyes, not better in my eyes, but better for HER.

Yes, government stops people from making decisions, intervenes when people make a "poor decision," but you shouldn't be allowed to bring religion into defining a "poor decision." Separation of church and state, please. And if a law can pass in Washington that allows a doctor to prescribe a suicide pill... certainly you can kill an unborn child of a weeks age before an adult?

Peeves me off that people intervene in other people's lives and try to push religion on them and stuff. Sure, everybody votes on values, I do too - and maybe its hypocritical that I am allowed to vote in favor of abortion when I'll never need one either, yet I say religious people shouldn't be. But the difference is, I'm standing up for the woman, and the religious people are just standing up for themselves. It's about the woman, and the people who vote should only count if their decision was based on that woman.



As for gay parents, it is hard to argue what is best - a lot of the time, a heterosexual couple would be better than a homosexual couple. You can find cases in either direction that would point toward one side being better for the child. The fact is, once again, it shouldn't be up to religious people sacked away in the rural areas of arkansas who WILL NEVER EVEN THINK ABOUT ADOPTING because all the homosexuals there are in the closet anyway (but yes, just as many of them are gay as anywhere else!) to tell the gay couples they can't have a child. The adoption agency should treat a gay couple and a heterosexual couple EQUALLY and make the best decision for the child. I'm not meriting some sort of affirmative action that would FORCE adoption agencies to give gay couples children - nor do I support fire houses being FORCED to hire women to be our firefighters. But I do support letting the experts make a decision like that.





Anyway, we'll see a nation in our lifetime that is accepting of gays, and a time when stem cell research BETTERS OUR RACE, and that adoption is legal, I am sure of it. Our nation and the world has oppressed blacks, women, and now homosexuals, and we'll rise over the top one again. Acceptance isn't overnight, and some people will never accept it. At least we get to laugh at them when they lose in the long run.





IMO though, we as a people need to take a step back and stop trying to intervene in other people's lives. I support all these propositions because I'm all for equality, letting people be. Voting for gay marriage and abortion isn't stepping into their lives - it is voting to let them be themselves and make their own choices. But voting against that IS stepping into people's lives - it is voting to remove a choice from them.





California bias, IMO. But I'm damn proud of it! Cheap stab time - anybody think its a coincidence that the liberal states are better off economically, socially, have less fucked up racist and ignorant people, are more accepting of lifestyles and others in general, and an all together better quality of life, if viewed from an outsider? I don't :-P



GO OBAMA!!!!
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on November 05, 2008, 11:43:00 pm
If Bush lost in 04 and Kerry was in office, and Hilary was the nominee against McCain, I'm pretty sure McCain would have won.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on November 05, 2008, 11:46:00 pm
Quote from: the Blueline Goddess
As for gay parents... I'd rather a child grows up with two wonderful, loving gay parents than in with two abusive straight parents.
I agree 100%.  Maybe the rule should be abusive parents have to give their kids  up to homosexual couples.  This would solve child abuse and gay adoption rights all at once.

Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: SimThreat on November 06, 2008, 12:36:00 am
I'd fuck sex.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on November 06, 2008, 01:02:00 am
who is "Sex" and is she hot?
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: TheGreatMax on November 06, 2008, 02:14:00 am
New leader of a country but the single-mindedness has yet to vanish.  There's still much work.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: the Blueline Goddess on November 06, 2008, 04:57:00 pm
Octo! *rooney*

The thoughts that have been churning in my head all day are:

1. All the radio ads for the last month "for" McCain have harped on how "congressional liberals" with "take away people's rights" and such, yet the conservatives are the ones saying gays shouldn't have rights, women have no rights, and so forth. Pot calling the kettle black, imo.

2. A woman who is raped did not consent to sex, and therefore did not wish to become pregnant. She already lost her choice, and it's sad that some people think she should be "punished" for an act that was out of her control by forcing her to carry the baby to term. Making her go through a pregnancy that she didn't want (and the sex act was nonconsensual) doesn't make sense at all.

3. Pro-lifers are only in favor of saving the lives of the unborn, but as Shawn's post shows, as soon as you're born they don't give a fuck about you. He mentions that criminals should be put to death - what about their right to live? (For the record, I do believe in the death penalty, but only in extreme cases or cases where the evidence proves the person serving the time committed it - here in Colorado we had a case this year where a guy has been on death row for over a decade only to find out the evidence CLEARED his name - he almost was put to death for a crime he didn't commit, and that's fucking scary to think about.)

4. On a biological level, yes, sex is for pro-creation. However, to think that sex cannot be an expression of love between two people without having to worry about having a child each and every time is troubling. If humans followed everything to the strictest sense of biology, we wouldn't have golf courses, million-dollar homes, sports cars, or video games! None of those things benefits anyone biologically, so to say that sex should only be reserved for "making babies" is not only short-sighted but rather foolish as well. Here we can bring up that old double standard where a guy can sleep with 50 chicks and be considered a stud, but a girl has more than 5 sexual partners in her life and she's a slut.

5. I still firmly believe that the only reason abortion is an issue at all is because men have to find some way to control women. I wish there was some equivalent that would affect only guys and that women could take that right away from men and see how they like it.

6. Octo hit the nail on the head that it is extremely screwed up that people get to decide what rights another group has - last I checked, the Constitution said "all men are created equal" - this means gays (teh horrors!) and women (oh noes!) and african-americans (oh my!) and so forth. So why does society think it's okay to tell these groups "oh, the Constitution didn't mean YOU." But that's America for you - full of double standards and nonsense. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why gays shouldn't have rights as far as marriage - why do the benefits of their partnership affect anyone outside of the relationship? Do heterosexual marriages benefit anyone outside the relationship? No? That's what I thought.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on November 06, 2008, 05:25:00 pm
Abortion is fine, especially in non-consensual situations, and even fine if the condom breaks or the tied tubes fail or whatever, but I really think they need to lower the age of consent. That's my #1 issue when I'm voting.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: rshepherd1000 on November 07, 2008, 09:02:00 am
Quote from: the Blueline Goddess
2. A woman who is raped did not consent to sex, and therefore did not wish to become pregnant. She already lost her choice, and it's sad that some people   think she should be "punished" for an act that was out of her control by forcing her to carry the baby to term. Making her go through a pregnancy   that she didn't want (and the sex act was nonconsensual) doesn't make sense at all.
I keep reading arguments like these and I dont get why this even needs to be mentioned. It implies that there are actually people claiming that abortion isnt acceptable in these circumstances. How can that be real. Surely noone can argue that with a straight face?

Please provide us with a link where people (preferably in an influential position) argue against abortion for rape victims.

Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: SimThreat on November 07, 2008, 10:17:00 am
This couldn't be properly enforced. Any women could claim to have been raped. It would have to be completely legal or completely illegal.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on November 07, 2008, 04:07:00 pm
Quote from: rshepherd1000
Quote from: the Blueline Goddess
2. A woman who is raped did not consent to sex, and therefore did not wish to become pregnant. She already lost her choice, and it's sad that some     people think she should be "punished" for an act that was out of her control by forcing her to carry the baby to term. Making her go through a     pregnancy that she didn't want (and the sex act was nonconsensual) doesn't make sense at all.
 
  I keep reading arguments like these and I dont get why this even needs to be mentioned. It implies that there are actually people claiming that abortion isnt   acceptable in these circumstances. How can that be real. Surely noone can argue that with a straight face?  
 
  Please provide us with a link where people (preferably in an influential position) argue against abortion for rape victims.
Afan can.  And he says kill the rapist, not the baby (fetus, whatever.)  To be honest, as a supporter of capital punishment I don't really disagree with this though the problem here is the woman has to go through 9+ months of carrying and caring for the baby before she can adopt it.

What would need to happen, is rape victims would need to be subsidized with some funds for carrying a rape child, which would cost much tax dollars and also would lead to conspiracies where a man would accept being convicted of raping the woman when he really didn't, so she could get money.

The easiest way is to make it legal, but just frown upon women who misuse the privilege (and there really aren't many.)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: PDplum on November 08, 2008, 08:21:00 am
the Blueline Goddess wrote:
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2. A woman who is raped did not consent to sex, and therefore did not wish to become pregnant. She already lost her choice, and it's sad that some people think she should be "punished" for an act that was out of her control by forcing her to carry the baby to term. Making her go through a pregnancy that she didn't want (and the sex act was nonconsensual) doesn't make sense at all.
I keep reading arguments like these and I dont get why this even needs to be mentioned. It implies that there are actually people claiming that abortion isnt acceptable in these circumstances. How can that be real. Surely noone can argue that with a straight face?

Please provide us with a link where people (preferably in an influential position) argue against abortion for rape victims.

While I can't find you an influential persons opinion on this matter i would like to bring up my views. I am extremely anti-abortion by nature. I have been the victim (yes i use that term) of having two children i wanted aborted. Both times in serious relationships and the children were considered wanted and planned, to the point of deliberately ceasing birth control. The first time we ended the relationship at about 18 weeks, without even consulting me she went straight away and aborted it. Now i wanted that child, i am not religious but i knew it was my son, i had a feeling. I would have happily taken sole custody at birth signed any affidavid (spelling?) contract document whatever to state she would never have had any involvement or emtional financial responsability as long as i or the child should live.

I did a lot or research into this and the accepted western maternal death rate during childbirth is 1/16th of a %. I would consider that a safe risk to ask a woman to proceed with.

The question i have is why were my rights not considered. THe one thing i want more in life is to be a father i have always had that desire. Now i am expecting the following thoughts through most of your heads

Her body - her life -her choice. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.... The choice was made when two people decided to have a child, you can't just go back on it. The child was alive, the child had a right to life and i had a right to raise that child. I would have been a bloody good dad. She forfeited that right at agreeing to conceive.

Now i realise that my situation was probably quite rare in this day and age. Going back to the rape victim. The child is still alive and has the same rights as in my situation above. the potential complications during pregnancy are null and void argument in my opinion. Yes the woman didn't choose to have the child and it's not her fault, i get that and sympathise, but deal with it it has happened and now there is a child to think of. A person. My mother was told to abort me, she didn't had she i would not exist. Think about that aborted childs potential. it sickens me.
Now that the woman has the child it can be given for adoption and have a full and loving life and give happiness to a childless couple irrelevant of the genders and sexualities of the parents.


To answer the quote. I realise the sex wasnt consensual and neither was the conception, but the problem i have is that the feeling of being wronged can't outweight the fact there is a tiny little wonderful human being arrising from it. Is that not the best gift possible in this world. The "punishment" i would hope in todays society and justice system will be solved by the conviction and jail sentence. (i said hope i don't trust our courts)

99% of the pro abortion argument seems to stem around the mother. Selfish in the extreme. You silence the voice of a life not strong enough to make its own. I bet when the child would grow up it wouldn't say to its adopted loving parents. You know mum and dad my birth mother had a rough time 9 months of inconvenience yeah i didnt deserve to live kill me

Quid Quo Pro
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Red Bull on November 08, 2008, 08:23:00 am
Pretty not-cool if you later find out you're a rape-victim-child.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Wouter Jansen on November 08, 2008, 12:05:00 pm
basically, if you want to avoid more plums being born, you need to vote in favor of abortion.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: afanoftheKing on November 08, 2008, 02:13:00 pm
I don't like plums, but i'm glad that PDPlum is not a pro-baby-murderer!

GO GO GO Plum!
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: wheatrich on November 08, 2008, 06:02:00 pm
Quote from: Red Bull
Pretty not-cool if you later find out you're a rape-victim-child.
Would it be cooler if you never existed?
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: afanoftheKing on November 08, 2008, 11:10:00 pm
Red Bull doesn't understand, he doesn't want to! imo tbh
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Carathorn on November 09, 2008, 12:25:00 am
wheat sounds like he lost a hand in poker
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Wouter Jansen on November 09, 2008, 06:33:00 am
Quote from: wheatrich
Would it be cooler if you never existed?
imagine he didn't exist. how would you be asking this question then?... to him?
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: .. on November 09, 2008, 07:55:00 am
If nobody has anything else to add regarding the Presidential Election (as the topic title states), this topic will be closed.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on November 09, 2008, 10:58:00 am
I don't think there is any point in closing topics. They should always be sent to FFA for their last hurrah. (I know, I just guaranteed this gets closed)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Soft-Hedwig on November 09, 2008, 11:32:00 am
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: RWG on November 09, 2008, 01:41:00 pm
They call me the juice when I'm at the strip club
I front, then I hundred on dub
In the mack, to a player I'mma stun
Cause when I leave the club, I'mma fuck
You can ride with the mane
You be givin' up the brain
Little scared, even when I ride witcha
I don't even know your name
There's a whole lotta room in the front of the ring
Like Barack Obama said, yeah it's time for a change

-Academy Award winning rap group, Three 6 Mafia
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: Red Bull on November 09, 2008, 02:11:00 pm
Pretty funny how people think that I'm implying a lot of other statements with something I say. Go figure, domme snolletjes.
Title: McCain or Obama?? US Presidential Election Discussion!
Post by: PDplum on November 09, 2008, 03:42:00 pm
i'm just annoyed there was no genuine response to a post that meant a lot to me to write