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Opinions of people have been considered in making decisions in the past, but the problem is that the decisions made are often not communicated to the general public. Here are some rules to clarify questions that people have had:
-When a time is gotten that is considered very good, the proof moderator (Axel Zakrisson for GoldenEye, myself for Perfect Dark) can request proof of this time. "Very good" is often defined as a time that is worth 80 or more points on the rankings. Other very good times can be:
-An unusually good time for a new or largely unproven player.
-A time that is one (or perhaps a few more seconds) second off a world record, and still requires great skill to achieve.
-Proof is provided through a video. The video must be of the level being fully played through, as well as show the endscreen with the time gotten and the level completed. The video must be of reasonably good quality, so that what is happening can be clearly observed. Pictures are not acceptable for proof. Audio-only files are not acceptable for proof.
-Videos must be made available by uploading them onto the Internet.
-On some levels, such as Facility and Frigate, times will not save as the new Best Time. This does not matter, as long as the level shows as Completed. The time not saving as the Best Time is attributed to a glitch in the game, and does not change the fact that the level was completed in the time shown.
-The video must be made permanently available (a time gotten on live stream where the video was not saved will not be allowed).
Faking videos is a big problem here at the-elite. We take every step we can to ensure that videos are authentic, but there are always ways around these measures. As such, videos that appear to be or are suspected to be fake usually must be considered on a case-by-case basis. If you suspect a video of being fake, let me or Axel know, and we'll review it and make a ruling.
There have also been issues with people using other people's videos for their own times. Please don't do this. There is literally no way of knowing whose video is which, except perhaps a difference in video quality or playing style. These differences are often incidental and can't be used conclusively to determine that someone has used someone else's video and claimed it as their own time. I would plead with the players who are good enough to get times that other people would want to use, pleading to simply not engage in this kind of irresponsible behavior.
The Goldeneye and Perfect Dark Rankings are World Rankings. This means that anyone from anywhere on the planet can use any version of the game to get fast times. There are significant version differences (most notably the Deep Sea level on Perfect Dark) that present advantages/disadvantages based on which version you have. Unfortunately, if you're the one with the disadvantage, that's just the way it is.
For Perfect Dark, Duel Agent 0:03 and Duel Special Agent 0:06 do not require proof videos. These times are very common and do not require very much skill or practice to attain. All other World Records require proof.
The GoldenEye and Perfect Dark Rankings rank times achieved by people, by themselves. Times gotten by two people with the 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 or 2.4 Control Styles will not be allowed on the ranks. If a person claims to have used one of these styles and operated both controllers themselves, they must provide video proof of this incredible feat, in the form of a camera showing them using both controllers to complete the level. The exception to this is if the level doesn't involve strafe changes and therefore the Control Stick must not be moved, in which case the manner in which one person accomplished the time is clear.
Players are not allowed to dissemble controllers or game consoles in order to glitch the game to get faster times. This is in light of Trent Hovis' times in 2012 achieved by abusing the circuit board of the controller, half-freezing the game and allowing for faster times.
END
The things contained in the policy are completely open to input or questioning. Feel free to ask me about any part of the policy, and I'll do my best to justify why that part of the policy is in place. The policy can be changed or edited if valid reasons are presented for such. Additional things can be added to the policy based on issues not already covered. Again, feel free to bring anything like that up.
Go Elite!
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We are also interested in getting additional help in this area. If you're interested in reviewing videos to ensure their authenticity and for other purposes, let us know.
I would like to be one of these people.
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Done. Goose is a qualified candidate based on his knowledge of the game and keen eye. Hugo van der Wolk has also been hired due to his skills and knowledge in video editing. Glen Stevens has been hired for his knowledge of the game and keen eye. Adam Matis has been hired due to his experience in the video and graphic design fields.
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Done. Goose is a qualified candidate based on his knowledge of the game and keen eye.
..And for being an expert in faking videos.
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I think this is more a matter of voting. Just because ryan said one thing and he's automatically in. Like greg stated he faked vids in the past...I think someone who hasn't faked vids should be better. Lovins and Woll are more qualified then him.
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If you haven't faked vids, how do you know what you are looking for?
As an ex-con, I know the entire trade inside and out. I know everything that makes a run fake. I am the perfect candidate.
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So Tyler has the power to write a proof policy as he sees fit?
Regardless, sounds mostly solid, and even if I disagree (maybe) with the best time glitch rule, at least there is a policy for it now, and it happens rarely enough that it's not a huge deal. Banning 2.3 was kind of random since that hasn't been discussed in ages and I don't think there was a general consensus then either, but I was always 50/50 there so whatever, and once again, might not even come up.
Hopefully Ryan will be trustworthy and unbiased, I mean how often is he calling Ace's runs fake when they're obviously not, and now he has the power to claim them as such.
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Ryan, your fake vids looked like shit. I'm pretty sure a lot of people can tell. There is a difference between doing it and doing it right.
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Well, in thinking about it, only one person would be allowed to play with both controllers (you can't have a friend help you get Depot Secret Agent 0:41). The policy has been edited; 2.3 is legal, but good luck using it on your own!
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Well, in thinking about it, only one person would be allowed to play with both controllers (you can't have a friend help you get Depot Secret Agent 0:41). The policy has been edited; 2.3 is legal, but good luck using it on your own!
I think that's a good idea, since it's built into the game. Should open the door to some interesting issues if anything is ever achieved with it though, which will no doubt lead to a whole new proof policy section.
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The policy is "you can use it if you're one person using two controllers." So if you have a friend over to use it, it doesn't count. I don't see any grey area here.
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agreed ^ with that 2.3 business. LOOOL @ at some dude born with 4 arms joining the Elite and PWNing with 2.3!!! (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fhappy.gif&hash=7b9cd982f9a41f9aefcd7ea74682d5f1e4caf4c6)
just voicing my opinion on the presented policy and such: i agree with it and am on board with all policy presented. and Eddie, as was brought up to me, Tyler WAS voted into this position, remember. we, The Elite, put him into this precise position to do just that, write the rules as he sees fit. he is as honest as anyone and is being fair and courteous as Mod. he is open to legitimate policy suggestions. just remember that you participated in (i'm pretty sure) the vote to give him this power, as did i.
and i agree with Tyler strongly that separating the ranks, while a great idea for more accurate rankings, is a load of work that is completely overwhelming. again, Tyler said that anyone is welcome to do such, so unless myself or anyone else that thinks it would be a good and right idea wants to do it ourselves, then we have no reason to bring it up again (though im sure it will be brought up again)
i should say that i am happy with this, except for one thing. WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES FOR FAKING OR "TRADING" VIDS? THERE SHOULD BE STEEP CONSEQUENCES AS THIS IS THE MOST DAMAGING THING THAT CAN BE DONE TO THE ELITE!!!!!!! personally i say permanent ban since it's complete and utter crap, but SOMETHING should be done and written into the policy!
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The policy is "you can use it if you're one person using two controllers." So if you have a friend over to use it, it doesn't count. I don't see any grey area here.
And you can tell from a captured video that there was only one person playing, of course. Just saying.
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is there only the depot SA that can be done with 2.3 or are there more? is so when someone posted Depot :41, then we would obv know...
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Heh you're absolutely right Shawn. Guess I forgot we did give him that power.
And yeah I think it was pretty obvious what Greg was getting at, no need to be douchey Ryan.
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I think if someone gets good enough with 2.3 to get a Depot record, they deserve it to be on the ranks and especially since it is a legit control style already on the game. No less legit than Depot 26 with 1.2 imo. However they would need to at least provide a session video where you can see only 1 person is holding both controllers and maintaining similar runs to the WR they achieve so that it is clear they arent lying.
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megafanofthering
: perhaps
: i think it should be written into policy that any past cheaters cannot be any proof mods of any kind, regardless of their "abilities"
: i trust Gooses eye and skill, but there SHOULD be consequences for being stupid in the past
: you should post that, verbatim, in the thread
: i cannot post til tomorrw
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pretty positive 2.3 was banned, because its impossible to tell only 1 player was playing. and whats with the greg matis and eddie lovins teaming efforts to try and bully the elite. i mean its unlikely to be perfect, just do a wobbly 2 player run instead no one would know. for tas its different
the only major level time saver is depot sa or 00. unless your tas on caverns or archives maybe a few others
marc asked a few days ago why ryans frigate 00 110 wasnt on the ranks. because it was faked. clearly ryan did a good job on his fakes. i mean its going to be pretty unlikely vid faking will be a big issue in the future, so the 3 of them can sort this out with others inputs.
after me and kirkness got 43 with 2.3 im 99% sure that was the final verdict
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Agrees 100%. Also that Goose should be a candidate to watch for faked videos. He's an ex-convict as he said. It would be like not hiring a ex-convict computer hacker to work for FBI. CLEARLY he would have expereince of what is going on.
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team Matis, Woll, Lovins VS team White, Clemens, Anderson!
stop trying to start stuff were talking about fixing policies.
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2.3 should be allowed if;
-there is only one person playing with the two controllers
AND
-there is a seperate video where both the person, two controllers and screen of the WR run are visible
This isn't rocket science guys.
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Haha I haven't bullied anybody!
But yeah, Clemens' post is word-for-word right on about how 2.3 should be handled, imo.
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2.3 should be allowed if;
-there is only one person playing with the two controllers
AND
-there is a seperate video where both the person, two controllers and screen of the WR run are visible
This isn't rocket science guys.
Right. My point is, if we're regarding the first post as the "official" policy, it doesn't say that at this point; and I wanted to make sure it was acknowledged in this topic and hopefully edited into the original post.
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It isn't rocket science
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Solid post Tyler.
Agrees with Greg too; taping 2.3 should be added into the original post just to prevent confusion when someone "forgot" to tape it like this and starts a whole new discussion about taping 2.3. Although I guess in this situation everyone wouldn't consider it legit..
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I think this would also be a good time to ask about the legality of using rubber bands/tape/etc for buttons on the controller. Has this every been discussed before and is there a decision on that?
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if cruise is allowed i think rubber bands and tape is basically the same thing. dots are allowed
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My brother helped me press B by the gate on my first Dam 54 ever lol
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lol thats pretty cute
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lol that actually IS cute (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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Of course rubber bands and stuff are allowed. In fact, Grags used a rubber band on his S2 Agent 49 (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Flaugh.gif&hash=657f1346088ce2081c398c7379c3a47e4cf5861b)
Unfortunately though... good luck finding any way to help play 2.3 with any sort of tape/rubber bands. You need to constantly be moving both sticks or you will not be able to strafe at full speed or turn properly, or change strafes. And I dont really see how taping down the Z button is of any use. The only way I can imagine even hitting Z while holding 2 controllers is hitting the Z button on my knee lol, it actually works but its incredibly hard to control, and keep in mind since its basically like 1.1 you do very slow turns and stuff and that first roller door only saved about 2 seconds, so itll still need to be like 44 quality to even get 42... pretty useless imo. And i cant think of any other level it would be helpful to use 2.3
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It might be too obvious and stupid (lol) but maybe we should mention something about original Nintendo 64 controller and Nintendo console use and no technical or software modification? No emulator or "third party" controllers.
Not all Nintendo's have a expansion pack either (I don't think this makes any difference but I think it should mention that it doesn't matter if you use one).
Like the whole post btw Thira. Nice job!
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if were gonna tighten policies, we better look at EVERYTHING.
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Half the stuff you guys are bringing up is completely irrelevant as nothing can be done to prove otherwise.
Like rubberbands etc. Lets say for some mad reason the-elite decides using a rubber-band is very naughty and remove my 49 of the ranks. Then i'll say I never used a rubber-band I was merely winding Dave up because he's easy to wind up and it makes me giggle. Can you prove me wrong?
As for 2.3 The controller setting is in the game. Nobody has the right to tell anyone they can't use it. So someone gets his mate to help him get 42 on Depot SA using 2.3, whether you like it or not. 42 is now the fastest time that level has been completed.
Your voice will be heard! I promise to listen to everyone and consider all opinions!
I demand that all runs on Surface 2 (Agent and Secret Agent) that use the new throw get backrolled. I hate you all and I hope a camel takes a dump on your front lawn.
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^ thats true but the elite ranks SINGLE players, so if it isnt being done by that player alone then it cant count. Although to be fair depot SA/00A are the only levels I can see 2.3 even helping on.
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Great post, Tyler. Thanks for finally do something creative about all this mess and clear things up.
I might've caused some confusion last night with my somewhat desperate move, I'm sorry about that, but I'm at the same time glad I did because Tyler wouldn't have written this policy if I didn't (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e) Hopefully we won't have any serious discussion with tns or whatever again.
lol at Gragz btw (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Flaugh.gif&hash=657f1346088ce2081c398c7379c3a47e4cf5861b)
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according to gragz my depot 43 should go back up :P
(it shouldnt)
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Added some stuff about 2.3, thanks for the thoughts guys!
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Don't know where else to ask this, but who the hell controls my times page? Can I have the link to it?
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no one controls it, I dont think a timespage of yours even exists anymore (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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To be basic, if you didn't require proof and if every WR were known it wouldn't be much of a competition.
I can't find the remove user button. I don't want to come in here and cause you too much trouble. Something even I've done to 'the-elite' before. I know how stressful geting WR's are so you don't need me around bothering you. Have fun.
Whoah, I passed 451. Book burning. 451 when I want to leave. I meant to do it. Honest.
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according to gragz my depot 43 should go back up :P
(it shouldnt)
You were legit enough to admit you had help. However, if people are using rubber-bands/celetape etc, isn't it the same thing?
P.S Apologies for the slightly late response (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fsmile.gif&hash=1adea417e08e9042f9ce1a5426616bf29f2ca20e)
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lol @ rubber bands being the same thing as another HUMAN BEING.
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The rubber-band holds buttons. the human being pressies buttons. Whats the difference?
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human beings can also shoot, move the analog and change strafes
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A 2nd human being is ALIVE, can PROCESS THOUGHTS (exception; Gragz) and can MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON CURRENT SCENARIOS.
Rubber bands can't do this.
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Something should be added to the proof policy about only using original, unmodified controllers. The 2.X styles are probably easier if you take the controller apart, for example, since you are free to position the analog stick wherever you like in relation to the other buttons.
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Yeah i definitely agree with that. tape and rubber bands are already kinda gay, but when you start talking about modding controller and filing down the stick lol, thats just ridiculous and in no way legit.
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How do you draw the line then, it's a slippery slope.
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...yes, it is. The line hasn't been drawn here...yet.
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It's not a slippery slope at all. Personally I think rubber bands should be banned. Tape is fine as a grip or on your hands, but not for the purpose of holding down buttons. Something like removing the L and R buttons so you don't accidentally aim and stop moving is probably okay. Other controller modifications are sketchy.
I've never been a fan of the dot, and to me the dot is no difference than rubber bands (but we've been using the dot for 10 years and banning all times with the dot would be completely ridiculous right now.)
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You say it's not slippery slope at all but then don't give any argument to support this, just stating your opinion on what should be allowed, and even offered a counter argument for your opinion. If anything I'm more convinced it's a slippery slope after reading your post.
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My R is fucked up so I cant aim even if I want to (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Flaugh.gif&hash=657f1346088ce2081c398c7379c3a47e4cf5861b)
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I think everyone should voice their opinion on what should and shouldn't be allowed and how proof will work.
Personally I think any controller mod should be allowed as anyone can do it and it doesn't offer a replacement for skill but is merely improving poorly designed hardware for better ergonomics and functionality. Also, it's very hard to require proof that a player didn't mod their hardware, and making rules that aren't enforced in anyway rewards dishonesty and punishes honest people. Furthermore I find it ridiculous that standard hardware doesn't let you move at full speed, but removing a gram of plastic from that hardware would allow this, it just seems like such a waste not to do this and have WRs were the player is only moving at a fraction of the speed that he could be.
Web cams vids which show the run and the player controlling both controllers should be required for runs where 2.x was used with strafe changes. That is unless we want to combine single player and multi-player rankings, ie allow any single player to use someone else to help him with this runs that go on his rankings.
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Din mor's vagina is a slippery slope. She likes to file down my control stick.
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You contribute so much to the-elite ryan...
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"You contribute so much to the-elite ryan... "
-Val strafing on Streets (lowered TT 2 sec)
-Late mine detonation on Jungle (WRs were 53/57/58 when I discovered this)
-One of the three current Frigate 00A WR strats
-Silo 00A pausing outside 2nd room strat (lowered TT 5 sec)
-Surface 2 Agent ending in right strafe (WR was 0:52 at the time)
-Ran the 2009 Goldeneye Tournament
-Ran various elite prediction competitions
-most total posts on the elite boards
-2nd most lines entered in chat all time, 1st in the past year
You're right!!
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-Surface 2 Agent ending in right strafe (WR was 0:52 at the time)
My ass you did!!
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-Late mine detonation on Jungle (WRs were 53/57/58 when I discovered this)
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Flaugh.gif&hash=657f1346088ce2081c398c7379c3a47e4cf5861b)
Btw, how many posts per year? I'm suprised if it beats mine (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Fwink.gif&hash=4979046fbfc7ed25a03644bf608e503c4aa73f0f)
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He did like 30-50 posts per day at some period of time and reached like 5000-6000 posts in one year or something crazy like that so youre far behind.
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He did like 30-50 posts per day at some period of time and reached like 5000-6000 posts in one year or something crazy like that so youre far behind.
Fuck, that's impossible to beat (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
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Goose was banned for posting to much, and was limited to 10 posts per day by mods at one point (something like that anyways)
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Ink. I have 8600+ on this account; 3586 on WhiteGoose, 1145 on Ryan J White and about 150-200 on various other multi accounts. This is since September 2005. So about 13500 posts in 5 years.
I peaked at 51 posts/day I think in fall of 2008.
To put this into perspective, it took me 3 months to reach 2000 posts on 2+2forums.
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He did like 30-50 posts per day at some period of time and reached like 5000-6000 posts in one year or something crazy like that so youre far behind.
Fuck, that's impossible to beat (https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ezboard.com%2Fintl%2Faenglish%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2Ffrown.gif&hash=9bb8520656650a7c2457ae0ae2ee8996e4109fd6)
I don't understand how anyone can post more than 10 times in a day considering how dead these boards seem to be.
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I admit, I was pushing it back then. It was tough to squeeze out 40-50 posts in a day without spamming any legit threads in GE or GC.
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Seems better to carry this "Lark" situation over to this thread.
Lark, no one is "singling" you out bud, you're the only one doing this. If there were others claiming many PR's that were worth 40-70 points and also not proving it AND we were ignoring them and asking only you, THAT would be singling out. According to your times page you have 1 vid linked to your times. If you have more on YouTube or somewhere else you should go ahead and link those up. It'd sure be nice. :)
Another sketchy thing to this is if you've been playing for 7 years, like you say, how are you ONLY managing 60-70 point times and NOT improving? No one else in the history of the Elite has accomplished this! It takes noobs like New Dave about one month to get Fac Agent :46 and Fac SA :55, which are both 90 pointers!
Again, I don't think you're actually breaking any proof rules, but hey, if you WANT to be known as shady and never taken seriously, I'd say continue posting fake times, which I'm fairly certain is what you're doing.
With a community that has suffered so much because of people like you, I suppose people are just numb to it. I very much hope Tyler sets some sort of action in place, even if it's just another policy improvement that states a player needs more proof than you do.
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*plays sad song on violin*
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Took an in-depth look at Lark and his times.
Of the players ranked 27th-46th, there isn't anyone with near as much uniformity and consistency through their times as Greg Larkin. The players who bear the closest similarity are players like Graham Morris and Matthijs ten Ham, who used to be top players and so sought very good times on every level, which have since been obsoleted in a consistent way. Players who have peaked in the 20s, 30s, or 40s, as Larkin has, don't exhibit anything close to Lark's well-rounded times. I'd be willing to bet that, except for current or former highest-level players, Lark is the most consistent player on the ranks, in terms of his times' point values.
This in combination with the fact that his only proof videos are for Runway Secret Agent 0:23 and Depot Agent 0:26 (http://thengamer.com/GE/13-Depot/Lark - Depot A - 0.26.wmv (http://thengamer.com/GE/13-Depot/Lark - Depot A - 0:26.wmv)) is worrying. 53 people have gotten 0:23 and 62 people have gotten 0:26, so while these times do validate Lark as a good player, they fall a little short if used to claim he's as good as 36th.
It's a unique case, at least in my experience as proof mod. We've always been ready to ratchet up the pressure on someone who claims, say, 75-point times across the board, but Lark is staying just below that. And in this case, it's for that very reason that I'm now gonna ratchet up the pressure on him. Looking at Lark's 00 Agent times:
-Zero of them are 70+.
-18/20 are between 61 and 69.
-The two which are lower than 60, Runway 00 Agent 0:40 and Surface 1 00 Agent 1:53, would be worth 84 and 70 points if they were one second better.
-Lark has Surface 1 SA 1:52, worth 68 points, but has Surface 1 00 1:53. Again, 1:52 would be worth 70 points, which Lark seems to be trying very hard to avoid. The inconsistency in a level where SA/00 are virtually identical highlights an interesting trend:
Facility SA 0:58/Facility 00 0:59 (00 0:58 would be worth 73)
Statue SA 2:23/Statue 00 2:23 (identical, both 60-pointers)
Archives SA 0:56/Archives 00 0:56 (identical, both 60-pointers)
Streets SA 1:57/Streets 00 1:57 (identical, both 60-pointers)
Control SA 4:26/Control 00 4:31 (both 68 points)
Cradle SA 0:40/Cradle 00 0:41 (00 0:40 would be worth 70)
Egyptian SA 0:49/Egyptian 00 0:49 (identical, both 60-pointers)
The discrepancy in the Control and Cradle times is more believable, but there's a very telling pattern here of Lark syncing his SA/00 times when the 00 time is under 70 points, and making the 00 time worse just enough when necessary (Control 00 4:30 would be worth 70 points). For a player who's played hard enough to get 18 of his 20 00 Agent times to 61 points or better, it makes almost no sense that he would have NEVER fluked a 70+ time, especially on levels where he'd already gotten the same time on Secret Agent.
Also, the exact same thing occurs in Secret Agent. The only time worth 70+ is his Runway WR; every other time is virtually as high as it can be, without going over 69. A similar pattern occurs in Agent, where he's claimed mostly times below 70, exceeding 70 in a few instances where the time in question is common, and hence wouldn't be proofcalled (Runway, Bunker 1, Frigate, Streets, Depot, Caverns). Otherwise, he again noticeably skirts the line.
These are not indications that Lark is a player who seeks to be good at every level, they are indications that he is very mindful of what times are worth on the ranks, and has times extremely (indeed, perfectly) well suited to go unnoticed based on point value (maybe he hasn't noticed that Dam SA 1:20 is now worth 69 points). His most recent PR, Aztec 00 2:10, is a two-second improvement on a level with high randomness. 2:10 ties the player in front of him, giving him exactly 69 points on the level, instead of 68. A second faster and he would've tied Jimbo for 70. This two-second, one-point improvement fits with all the other bad things about this timespage, and looks very, very bad for Lark.
I won't make any specific pronouncements at this point in time, but safe to say there will be consequences based on all this.
In summary: By my judgment, Greg Larkin's GoldenEye timespage is too perfectly aligned with the ranks to be real. If Lark doesn't prove at least several of his times soon, there will be serious consequences, with possibility of removal from the ranks entirely. If Lark would like to know where to start with his proof, I would suggest:
Dam 00 Agent 2:04
Facility Secret Agent 0:58
Surface 2 00 Agent 1:39
Control 00 Agent 4:31
Caverns 00 Agent 1:49
Aztec 00 Agent 2:10
Also, I would urge Lark to be cooperative and polite in his efforts to resolve this situation, because continuing to act hostile and sarcastic will only make things worse for him.
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I hate it when people taint the Elite's validity. The collective ability of everyone here (and their efforts to share that ability with others), and the Elite as a whole are far greater than any one or small group of players.
I certainly hope that Greg Larkin is legit and continues to improve, but if he is: A) a fake account by some schmooze, looking to be a nub or B) a legit guy that is just too lazy to make vids/improve times then I'm glad he will be erased. I can't speak for anyone else, but coming from me this isn't a personal attack, so I hope Lark can understand my intentions, which are to better a community which was founded on something I care much about and have a great appreciation for.
Thanks Tyler for looking into this. :)
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Thanks a lot Tyler. everything you covered is what i noticed and is exactly what i saw as shady.
hope you make a little effort to get some vids up, lark.
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The GoldenEye and Perfect Dark Rankings rank times achieved by people, by themselves. Times gotten by two people with the 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 or 2.4 Control Styles will not be allowed on the ranks. If a person claims to have used one of these styles and operated both controllers themselves, they must provide video proof of this incredible feat, in the form of a camera showing them using both controllers to complete the level. The exception to this is if the level doesn't involve strafe changes and therefore the Control Stick must not be moved, in which case the manner in which one person accomplished the time is clear.
sup? :P
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Interesting. Does this mean that Jimmy Bauer and myself need to provide vid proof of us actually playing (camera recording our hands)? We both have achieved pr's (Jimmy=wr's) using 2.4. New Dave has already shown himself playing (I think his run was a fail). It seems like if this is so, then we should have to provide a demo of us clearly in control of our play and not necessarily us actually achieving claimed pr's/wr's. Seems like Tyler said that Dave Clemens' vid (which was a fail IIRC) of proof that he could play this level (Depot) was sufficient.
Tyler could you clarify for an old toot please? Vid of ability to control play or an all objectives complete? I believe it's the former and not the latter, but I'm not sure.
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Yeah pretty sure that means you just need to provide a video of yourself playing at a level sufficient enough to validate your PR (meaning a fail will suffice). I got some shitty 49 pace depot 00A fail when i got 49/41, and although I believe that you and Jimmy got your prs legit obv, i think it is only fair that we all have to live up to the same standards.
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Yeah i have a vid of a depot 45 fail with 2.4 showing my hands, i had a two second stuck after the trainshot, so it was 43 pace and i did it when my pr was 43. Requiring vids of people showing their hands playing 2.4 is pretty stupid anyway imo, 2.4 isn't THAT hard to use, its just really awkward, but anyone can do it if they put effort into it, and there's no reason to believe anyone didn't achieve it themselves. If the proof moderators feel that i need better proof of my 2.4 skill, i don't have a problem getting a vid of a depot 41 fail though, or a dam 54 with 2.2
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I originally posted that in the policy because I didn't expect anyone to actually do such a thing. I won't make any official changes yet, but I'm probably going to remove it from the policy. Anyone have an opinion on whether or not a video of the hands should be necessary?
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I would just remove it from the policy. It's common now, and getting a 2.x time with two players is probably more difficult than doing it yourself anyway.
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Well, like Clems said, everybody should have to live up to the same standards, and I agree. NewDave also mentioned that it really isn't TOO hard to do, just awkward. This is true. But since they both made proof vids, I will do as such. I won't make a stink about it if Bauer doesn't make a vid because imo, he is perfectly legit. Also since this isn't pressed in stone, I can't expect him to.
:)
Will make vid later today or so...
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but I'm probably going to remove it from the policy.
Even if you do, the people currently in question would need to provide a vid because as an US citizen you're not allowed to issue retroactive laws by your constitution :v
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Meh I think the policy on it might be too strict but at the same time it's nice being able to see how these people are holding the controllers with 2.4. It could help other people who haven't used 2.4 yet...
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2.4 proof (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sxwLci_O5Y#ws)
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Hello
Where is a link to the original and all subsequent full proof policies? There's somewhere in there that explicitly bans modifying the console, controllers, etc. That should be all we need to see here.
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http://the-elite.net/proofpolicy.html (http://the-elite.net/proofpolicy.html)
this is all I could find :(
this version of proof policy dates back all the way to 2005, lol.
I dare proofmods to come up with a new and updated version of the proof policy asap and at least implement the rules found within the petition topic in General Chat.