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The Big Three Plus One => General Chat => Topic started by: Ngamer on April 22, 2012, 01:20:30 am

Title: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Ngamer on April 22, 2012, 01:20:30 am

Voting will be up for 72 hours, only votes from the 32 participants in this year's GE tournament will be counted (click tag below for the list of players), this decision will be final (so we can finally move on to discussing other aspects of the upcoming meet).


Choices (all will use regular pistols/LTK settings)

A) 1v1 Screenwatching Matches

B) 1v1 Splitscreen Matches

C) 3 Player Matches


A bunch of other ideas for changes have been thrown around in the past week, but in the interest of moving forward let's just stick with the three most popular options for this bracket.  We'll see how the tourney goes and, if needed, can make further tweaks next year.

Just post an A, B, or C to have your vote counted.  You can discuss your choice later in the post if you want, but start out by saying A/B/C to make tallying easier.

Notes: "Splitscreen" is where you can't see what your opponent is doing, which will be possible this year thanks to a special setup Andrew is creating for us in the basement.  Radar will be turned on for these matches, for the reasons we discussed in the last topic.  "Screenwatching" is the regular setup where you can see everything on your opponent's screen.  "3 Player" means 1v1v1 matches, which some suggest will be more exciting as it eliminates the motionless standoffs we've often seen in recent years.

2012 Player List:

Spoiler

Patrik
Ngamer
Clemens
Trent
YE
Matis
Clark
Jimbo
Eise
Lovins
Third
fanny   
Zerg
Boss
OD   
Karl   
Alex
Woll
Mgay
QB
wiff
Neo
wheat
DS7
PYL
Nate
Weatherton
Jones
Wonn
Bjorn
DK
Duff
Thingy

Click the spoiler tag below for up-to-the-minute results.

Spoiler

A) 1v1 Screenwatching Matches
Lovins
fanny
Patrik
Woll

B) 1v1 Splitscreen Matches
PYL
Ngamer
Thingy
wheat
Wonn
Matis
Nate

C) 3 Player Matches
Karl
Jimbo
Clemens
Eise
Boss
OD
Andrew
Alex
Zerg
Clark
Mgay
Third
Trent
QB

NO VOTE
YE
wiff

WAITING ON
Neo
DS7
Jones
DK
Duff

[17:38] GoldenGreg007: i've got to side with the surprising minority and go with A
[17:38] GoldenGreg007: i thought it'd be between A and B, not just C

[17:46] Ngameratwork: Nate, say A B or C right this instant
[17:47] stinsonatwork: b

Title: Re: Virginia Goldeneye players: Vote on this year's tournament format!
Post by: SimThreat on April 22, 2012, 01:22:59 am

c

Title: Re: Virginia Goldeneye players: Vote on this year's tournament format!
Post by: Jimbo on April 22, 2012, 01:24:45 am

God damn I've wanted 3P matches for many years now, but I'll hold my vote for now...

Title: Re: Virginia Goldeneye players: Vote on this year's tournament format!
Post by: Time was untied when set. on April 22, 2012, 01:43:13 am

Devoted sister, beloved Cunt.

Title: Re: Virginia Goldeneye players: Vote on this year's tournament format!
Post by: PYLemire on April 22, 2012, 01:52:15 am

The main issue with this "oh new players are coming" thing is that there will always be new players every year. We try to make place for these new GE powerhouse at the expanse of some other less strong GE players etc. I mean surely we would run out at some point but still.

3 players could be interesting but how would the pairing goes? What if I'm up against Pat and Adam? It's just whoever gets to me the fastest :p then they camp and nib at each other until I spawn and then it's another race for the easy pray. Seems it could produce some ganging up on the weakling. Though toward the end it would get interesting when only great players are left. Just seems like it would suck to see either Adam or Patrik not make it through in such a match. Then again it would be double elimination so it would have to happen twice.

Split screen seems like fun to me and I share most of what infil said on that. I would love to see this happening. Be it as some sort of side tourney to the official original tourney as a try out for this year. Make a bracket for it for whoever wants to try it or just make an 8 players bracket with players that want to try it and not just fun around and tank it.

Still unsure which is best and I'm not good at this but would love to see 3 players and split screen at least given a try as a mini tourney on the side or whatever. Because the skills is all important and bla bla but to me a shooter skills should be aiming at someone who's moving not just R leaning around corners forever. That is a skill indeed just not one that I find very representative nor fun to watch. Would I try R leaning I would get slaughtered anyway but it just seems to put every great players on par where luck is the deciding factor. The most awesome kills are the one where both are on the move in a room, far away in a tunnel or behind a glass and they get shot. Currently it's more of a well he got shot around the corner let's see which corner they go to next. Would split screen or 3 players solve this? I have no idea but I'd love to see it given a try.

I think I'd be leaning more toward B

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: SimThreat on April 22, 2012, 01:59:17 am

PYL, you are obviously entitled to your vote. However in response to your first point, if you are not a good player then yes, you will get owned. This is a competition to find the best player.

There would be however be measures in place to ensure that you can't get knocked out due to bad luck. This may involve everyone playing more than one match, seedings etc, I'm sure something can be arranged to make it work well.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Smit on April 22, 2012, 02:01:30 am

Obviously my answer is C

Could be fun to try it some time :)

Another alternative is to get rid of the MK64 tourney and play both A and C matches :)

3player matches just wouldnt be fair. The standing on corpse rule would be impossible to inforce since there is always the threat from the other player, you cannot stand too long in one place.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: SimThreat on April 22, 2012, 02:09:09 am

I have played A LOT of 3 player GE over the years, and even with a crappy player there has never been an issue of them being 'prey'. Because the 2 other players will have to get through each other to get to the other player.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Time was untied when set. on April 22, 2012, 02:13:02 am

I think 3 players should be more "anything goes" except for obvious spawn kills.  You guys are just thinking way too much into it honestly. How many 3 player matches have you played where somebody spawn killed you the entire time? I cant think of any because I guarantee you if its me/eddie/pyl and eddie kills pyl, I am going to go straight for eddie , and therefor he wont even have TIME to do a spawn kill. Using that as an excuse to do 1v1 is just dumb if you ask me. Maybe a rule like "no waiting in a room for a player to spawn" would be fine, so that way they have a fair chance to at least get a gun. Besides, I saw a few spawn kills during the last tourney, so thats sort of a irrelevant complaint honestly. and even if some sort of rule like "stay in the room until the player spawns" is made, its not like that makes you at a massive disadvantage. You still have plenty of room to take cover and protect yourself.

And I think the whole point of why 3 players is a good choice is because it forces people do constantly do something. If I just go after a weaker player like PYL the entire time, the other player who is with me just had to run after me and kill me. Its not like I have nothing stopping me. Sure you might be killed more often than the stronger players, and you can bet your ass if I have to make the choice between going after Patrik or going after PYL I will go after PYL, but does that really ruin the tournament? I dont think so, because wait until you get into  a 1v1 screenwatching match with a better player like Eise etc, you're going to feel like someone is hitting you in the head with a hammer. Which is better? No matter how you play GE its going to be kinda gay for some people, so its a matter of choosing which is more fun imo, and i think 3 players is a lot more enjoyable and interesting.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: SimThreat on April 22, 2012, 02:15:31 am

If you are standing with your cursor on a spawn point waiting for the 3rd player to spawn... I WILL KILL YOU. Lol. You just can't do that in reality because you get owned by the other person. As I said, I've played a lot of 3 player and stuff like that has never been an issue.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Boss on April 22, 2012, 02:22:01 am

C

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Ngamer on April 22, 2012, 02:27:40 am

B

I have no doubt that the 3 player matches will be very exciting, both to play in and to watch, but in a tournament setting like this I guess I prefer the purity of a "one versus one, may the better man win, loser goes home" situation.  I really feel that split screen combines the best of both worlds; all the skills and instincts built up over the last 10+ years of LTK pistols matches are still going to be by far the #1 factor in every matchup, but without all the negatives that have come to be associated with screenwatching in recent years.

Infil did an extremely good job of explaining the thought process here in the last topic (would highly recommend everyone go back and read those posts if you haven't yet),  but essentially GE's problem recently is that when both players always know exactly when their opponent has moved out of cover, it's a significant advantage for the stationary/more defensive player who always avoids engagements and only leans out to shoot around corners.  With splitscreens the opposite will be true- the advantage goes to the more aggressive player who gets to dictate the style of play and can keep his opponent on his toes.

The other factor is that Andrew and Jimbo have already invested time and money into making this splitscreen setup downstairs possible, and it would be a shame to have their effort go to waste.  Plus it'll make for some very enjoyable viewing, especially in the final rounds (all spectators will gather around the projector and be able to see both screens at once from the comfort of the basement's big couches)!

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: TheFlash on April 22, 2012, 02:29:12 am

B

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: SimThreat on April 22, 2012, 02:33:33 am

Jon and Infil make some good points for 1v1 matches. However with 3 players their points are IRRELEVANT.

The effort on split screens will not go to waste. It will be used a lot, and it will be a lot of fun no doubt :) However why does that have to mean it must be an official tournament.

To think that split screen play utilises the 10 years of experience we all have with LTK pistols is hilarious :)

Please don't be fooled by statements such as ' Plus it'll make for some very enjoyable viewing', as no one here has even watched a split screen match take place.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Glen Stevens on April 22, 2012, 03:14:37 am

I vote c

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Infil on April 22, 2012, 03:20:00 am

People wanted 3 player matches other years, but they were horribly downvoted by the players. I'm surprised to see any support for them this year at all.

Of course, 3 player matches succumb to much fewer of the perils of 1v1 Goldeneye. Camping is riskier, and screen watching is less of a factor (both good things), but the randomness factor is increased, and the framerate/lag/smaller screen size are less than ideal.

I think B or C are valid options as far as keeping the tournament fresh and eliminating the dumb aspects of option A. C is a lot harder from an administrative point of view (getting players together to play a match, organizing brackets, deciding on a fair ruleset), though it could be done on any TV instead of just the special setup one, so that's nice.

I'm also really surprised to see the people who were concerned about the integrity of the tournament in the other topic vote C here. B is a nice compromise between shaking up the event and keeping the skills required to win mostly the same... C is a totally different game from A or B, so if integrity actually is really important, B should be the best choice. C has its benefits too (the main one being, it'll probably be way more FUN), but if it's chosen, no player who voted for it can complain about not knowing who the "true GE champ" is or anything like that.

EDIT - For the record, I don't care which option is chosen between B and C. Just want to make sure the implications of each option are clear.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Illu on April 22, 2012, 08:08:51 am

3 player - small screens, lag, randomness, best strat is to go in after 2 have started a gunfight when they're focusing on each other, if you get shitty spawns then you won't get much points since the other two will just keep killing each other too much, same if you have slow death 5-9sec deaths.

so I say think things trough.. but yea I'll probably still be one of the first to watch the vids with interest, I personally feel more accurate in PD

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: SimThreat on April 22, 2012, 08:33:33 am

"best strat is to go in after 2 have started a gunfight when they're focusing on each other,"

Lol Illu :) You sound like a n00b here. Because the dynamic is not that simple at all. When 2 people start focusing on each other? If two people are focusing on each other in a 3 player match they aren't very good players. Still love you though.

Infil, in regards to integrity... 3 player is massively skill based, in fact more than 2 player. It requires an extra skill that 2 player doesn't require that much of. You need to be able to keep track of 2 other players which is a lot harder. 3 player matches are indeed determined by a player's skill, not by luck. Hence why I have won 99% of all 3 player games in the last 10 years. There would be no integrity issue. C isn't different from A, just more intense and requires better awareness. If there were a 3 player tournament you would certainly see the best players make it to the finals, and I can guarantee that a worthy champion would be crowned.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Lovins on April 22, 2012, 08:57:41 am

A

I've always spawn killed like crazy in 3P, have fun trying to regulate that.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Illu on April 22, 2012, 09:00:09 am

 ;D

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Weatherman on April 22, 2012, 09:40:49 am

C

3-Player is much more in line with my Goldeneye multiplayer experiences outside of this tournament.  Heck, I'd vote 4-player, if it were an option.  As Karl Jobst indicated, we'll see a lot more agressive play (like what David Clemens tried to use) with this option (which I think will be more fun).  If framerate were an issue, we could use the 60 fps 1964 emulator and my 4-player adaptoid.

Whether the splitscreen option is chosen or not, I'll still be up for setting it up.  I'm sure people will want to try it.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: TreAKAHotdog on April 22, 2012, 10:46:21 am

I'm not on Jon's list, so I can't vote.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Wouter Jansen on April 22, 2012, 10:49:32 am

3P will be Splitscreen?

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Darth Vader on April 22, 2012, 10:53:23 am

Quote from: Wouter Jansen on April 22, 2012, 10:49:32 am

3P will be Splitscreen?

:D

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on April 22, 2012, 10:58:44 am

Massive applause for this whole voting process happening!  :D

I agree with Infil on his point about how if we do 3P, there is almost no way to know who the SINGLE best 1v1 player is.  I def like aspects of all 3 choices.  I like the craziness of 3P, which IS gonna force players like Eddie and Patrik to move their arses more.  Please don't take offense Eddie or Patrik, you guys are the two best players on the planet, but we all know that lack of hardcore offense is ONE of the reasons why.  :)  And you're not the only ones.  I do it too, I'm just stating the MAIN issue that MOST people have here.  You're both legendary multi-killers, I'm not hating on you in any way.

However, like I said, I'd really like to know who the single best player is this year and 3P simply cannot supply that.  And Infil also mentioned that rules are gonna be a pain in boot to come up with (like has been mentioned, in a 3P match, there are almost no rules that can be enforced).  

Honestly, I like all 3 scenarios, but to single out the 1 best player out of everybody within the tourney, you'd have to go with option:

A (which is my choice)

since options B and C haven't been ironed out yet and C is just a flustercuck of insaneness.

Maybe it's because last year was only my first "official" tourney, but I didn't mind what most people seem to hate, which is the lack of offense, or "camping".  I have (AGAIN, agreeing with Infil) always been about the integrity whenever I have played, which, as of NOW, is the standard way that it's been done.  When the kinks are ironed out (which can only be done after seeing several matches played out) for the split screen version, I'd likely re-think my position.  IMHO, option C could NEVER determine the single best multi-player.

Out of curiosity, were there any ideas for rules for option C?

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on April 22, 2012, 11:00:52 am

Quote from: TreAKAHotdog on April 22, 2012, 10:46:21 am

I'm not on Jon's list, so I can't vote.

Dafuq?  I also didn't see Lockwood's name on that list.  He was a legit player last year, but I suppose he is confirmed NOT coming?  It must've been the cab issue last year... :(

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Darth Vader on April 22, 2012, 11:01:56 am

3 players lulz. Like Eddie said, have fun with that. I hope the swedish meets will still maintain the classic mano el mano LTK pistols tournaments, so there is a decent GE meeting to attend to. I guess the players who wants to play a man's game will have to come all the way to sweden  :D

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Infected Mind on April 22, 2012, 12:11:31 pm

C

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: RK on April 22, 2012, 01:03:32 pm

C

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Infil on April 22, 2012, 02:16:57 pm

Quote from: karljobst on April 22, 2012, 08:33:33 am

Infil, in regards to integrity... 3 player is massively skill based, in fact more than 2 player. It requires an extra skill that 2 player doesn't require that much of. You need to be able to keep track of 2 other players which is a lot harder. 3 player matches are indeed determined by a player's skill, not by luck. Hence why I have won 99% of all 3 player games in the last 10 years. There would be no integrity issue. C isn't different from A, just more intense and requires better awareness. If there were a 3 player tournament you would certainly see the best players make it to the finals, and I can guarantee that a worthy champion would be crowned.

Well, of course 3P matches have lots of skill involved, but people were so concerned in the other thread about the integrity of the tournament. "We have all these new people coming, how will we know who is the best 1v1 pistols LTK player if we change the rules?" And now several players who said that are now supporting 3P mode, which is even a further departure from the previous tournaments than option B, the one they were so against.

A "worthy champion" would be crowned no matter which option is picked, because they won the tournament given the rules, and all 3 modes test SOME particular subset of GE skills (each slightly different), so that's not the issue. The issue is simply WHICH skills people want to test, and all those people who wanted the old format and are now supporting C are pretty confusing, because the skills tested are probably the most different from the old tournament they wanted so desperately to keep.

My advice, coming from a dozen years of experience in a multitude of 1v1 tournament games: forget the past year's rules, and do what would generate the most excitement and the most fun for everyone involved. If that means B or C, then great! People are getting too caught up in maintaining a tradition that isn't nearly as important as they think. And if two people really are concerned about who is the better 1v1 screen-watching pistols LTK player, they can go upstairs to an open TV and play a hype best of 7 match for $10.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Infected Mind on April 22, 2012, 02:32:09 pm

Seems like a buy-in tournament on the side for like 5-10 bucks each could generate a good side 1v1 tournament

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: wheatrich on April 22, 2012, 02:48:46 pm

I'm voting B.   

In 3P let's say it's inexplicably Jimbo, Patrik, and myself.  In this hypothetical, Jimbo wins the lottery before the meet and wants to win so badly he pays me 1 million of it to constantly run in his direction and avoid Patrik as much as possible so Jim gets a bunch of easy kills and wins the match.  I'm 100% taking the 1 million* which becomes 2 million when instead of sabotaging Jimbo in a kart final, I actually sabotage other people so he wins.

I know when the first random wins a 3p we're going to hear nothing but complaining from the GE folk.

*well that's if I thought he'd actually pay it

afan--who are the non legit players then?

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on April 22, 2012, 02:54:04 pm

Quote from: wheatrich on April 22, 2012, 02:48:46 pm

afan--who are the non legit players then?

I simply meant that he was pretty good (made it somewhat far in to the tourney) and that if he WERE coming, his name should be on the list of eligible voters (as is ALL other players).  However, if he isn't coming, it's irrelevant.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Infected Mind on April 22, 2012, 02:57:17 pm

I think eliters have more morals then to throw and bias games. Same could happen in kart finals.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Jimbo on April 22, 2012, 03:18:46 pm

I think if people play to their normal standards and style of play, then there's no danger of some ridic strategy to win a 3P game... it's just a jacked up 2P but you always have to keep an eye out for that other person who could easily get you from behind... it's super exciting to watch.

I've personally done 3P a bunch and think it'd be the most exciting for a tournament setting, but split-screen (something I've only logged maybe 3 hours of in the last 5 years) offers a ton of skill and excitement for us too. Both are win-win situations and would generate huge interest in the final 8 matchups in the tournament this year.

As for tradition, it's been beaten to death. We know who the best players are and recognize past champions and memorable matches for the memories they have given us. I'm sorry you didn't show up the past FIVE YEARS to play with normal rules, but now it's time to move on to something much more new and exciting -- something the elite has a very difficult time with! (shoot me for stating the obvious)

If it's 3P, it's much easier to set up because no silly technical changes are required. Jon and I threw around some bracket ideas and it's much easier to do then we thought (27 participants is the perfect number to start, fyi). Split-screen is even easier to set up bracket-style, just requires some patience with the match set ups since the final 8 will take longer to get through.

Title: Tossed between B and C
Post by: David Wonn on April 22, 2012, 03:41:13 pm

At the moment I am tossed between options B and C, so I will certainly read up on the opinions of the more seasoned GE players before I make my vote official in a future post. That is, assuming I can make up my mind in the short duration of this poll. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing something like C format for the early rounds and perhaps B format for the quarter-, semi-, and finals, or something along those lines. Just a thought.
 
There is no doubt that either B or C will make the matches more exciting from a spectator perspective. From a participant standpoint, I am also fortunate to have played GoldenEye on 4 TVs (http://davidwonn.kontek.net/4tvs.html) back in 1999, long before trying out the "lower tech" simulation at last year's Va. meet. Both scenarios have a very similar feel, and it will become clear quickly as to why radar will be enforced on.
 
As long as the rules are carefully thought out, I'm sure either B or C can be successful. I'd imagine a higher kill count perhaps for option C (and maybe even for B) so either should be thoroughly tested out prior to the meet by seasoned veterans as soon as it is feasible.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Infil on April 22, 2012, 03:49:06 pm

Just wanted to state that there are several difficult complications running a 3P tournament in terms of brackets, winners vs losers side, advancing 1 player or 2 players (and how?) per match, etc.

They might be solvable with some consideration but they probably won't be as universally fair as a double elimination bracket is. It almost certainly would be some type of round robin bracket, sorting out the top players, then playing some single-elim "top 9".

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Jimbo on April 22, 2012, 03:52:44 pm

I'm really quite terrible at short-posting like this. I have a zillion thoughts going through my mind and need to put it in a one-post-TL;DR reply.

In 3P, my proposed rules would be as follows (please help me tweak this): First to 20, LTK Pistols, radar OFF.

The bracket would start with 27 players with 2 players advancing from each round, 3 matches total. Kill TOTAL is what advances you all the way until the final 9, and from there it's overall winner of the 3P matches that advance into the final 3. With this setup, there is no loser's bracket, but there's a zillion chances to keep yourself alive until the final 9.

The final 9 eventually get set-up into a single-elimination format. Total kills will rank you in the final 9, much like Kart. 1 plays the 8 and 9 seed, 2 plays the 6 and 7 seed, 3 plays the 4 and 5 seed. The best-of-three winners (kill total not mattering) of each match will then determine the final 3, who play for all the marbles in a possible best-of-five match?

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: PerfectTaste on April 22, 2012, 04:02:34 pm

Quote from: Fanny on April 22, 2012, 10:58:44 am

I agree with Infil on his point about how if we do 3P, there is almost no way to know who the SINGLE best 1v1 player is.  I def like aspects of all 3 choices.  I like the craziness of 3P, which IS gonna force players like Eddie and Patrik to move their arses more.  Please don't take offense Eddie or Patrik, you guys are the two best players on the planet, but we all know that lack of hardcore offense is ONE of the reasons why.  :)  And you're not the only ones.  I do it too, I'm just stating the MAIN issue that MOST people have here.  You're both legendary multi-killers, I'm not hating on you in any way.

Have you seen me play 3 or 4-player games? I'm probably one of the most offensive around in that kind of game-play. Check out the 9 kills in 50 seconds; http://thengamer.com/GE/21-Multi/Patrik%20owning%20at%204%20player%20on%20swedish%20GE%20meet%202009.wmv (http://thengamer.com/GE/21-Multi/Patrik%20owning%20at%204%20player%20on%20swedish%20GE%20meet%202009.wmv) (don't mention the HORRIBLE start)

My vote is on A. I've never been bored with the normal rules, especially not when playing.

Second choice is C, but then the tournament definitely gets more "fun" then actually determines who's the best. More luck becomes involved. A 3-player game can take really sudden turns, and turn out either way between really skilled players. If this is the final decision you'll be seeing a whole different game by me. It's probably good for the spectators, and the games will be faster and more entertaining. Downsides are; inconsistent matches, lag (although small levels are pretty good), randomness and the probably more confusing way of bracketing the tourney etc (maybe Wonn can handle a nice spreadsheet for this). Maybe C for determining finalist, and A for the final matches?

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Time was untied when set. on April 22, 2012, 04:10:05 pm

Anyone bitching about spawn kills in 3 players is just being a downer. It really isnt that bad. Just make it so you can't do a legit spawn kill (wait for them to spawn and shoot them right after they spawn) or in a worse case scenario we can still do the stand by body/near body rule on 3 players. Like I said it really isnt that bad. I dare you to try and kill me when Im standing on someones body, Ill just wait for you to come out and pick you off.

No point in a classic rules tourney honestly. We already know who the best players are, and regardless of what happens nobody is going to be surprised by anything and it's going to just be replication of the past several tournaments we/I have been in. I know there are a few new players, but honestly I can tell you right now they have pretty minimal chance to actually win a standard rules tourney, and if we let the rules stay the same just for their sake I can tell you it's going to be a massive disappointment for most people.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Jimbo on April 22, 2012, 04:37:45 pm

Clemens forgot to mention how disappointed the players will be when NOBODY is watching their match if they make the final four, since we play til 4 AM and the matches have a reputation of being a complete bore-fest.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: NathanStinson on April 22, 2012, 05:56:32 pm

Quote from: InkosiDeVinyl on April 22, 2012, 11:01:56 am

3 players lulz. Like Eddie said, have fun with that. I hope the swedish meets will still maintain the classic mano el mano LTK pistols tournaments, so there is a decent GE meeting to attend to. I guess the players who wants to play a man's game will have to come all the way to sweden  :D

says someone who is not coming.... :)

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Darth Vader on April 22, 2012, 06:15:45 pm

:'D

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Time was untied when set. on April 22, 2012, 06:37:33 pm

Also I just had a realization that should end any debate about spawn kills. If you dont hit start, you dont spawn! Let's say Matis kills me and Eddie goes to spawn kill me, I just wait till Matis tracks down Eddie and they engage in a gun battle and then I spawn and run to safety. It's not even that bad. And we can still make it so you have to stay in the same room as the person you just killed maybe. How about instead "stand by body" its just "stay in the room" or something. Obviously some rooms are larger than others, so you just have to be logical about it and use common sense for what is/isn't acceptable. I just want to make sure we keep the tourney fun and maintain some of the classic feel of standard 3 player friendly matches, but to prevent it from getting lame for inexperience players or to prevent rage during finals matches, maybe we should make up some sort of "rule" for it later or something.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on April 22, 2012, 07:06:46 pm

I still lean towards playing BOTH these scenarios (options B and C) with our free time and NOT making them into a tournament.  This gives us plenty of time to peak-and-tweak the issues that are guaranteed to present themselves.  Personally I'd love to play all 3 options, but if EVERYONE played all 3 options until comfortable, the meet would be over and we'd have come to no decisions.  Such a tough thing to do.  I honestly do not see a happy conclusion to this.  But I will happily agree to and play in whatever is voted into a majority. 

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: NathanStinson on April 22, 2012, 07:09:25 pm

it seems that no matter what is decided, some group of people are going to come away disappointed

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: SimThreat on April 22, 2012, 07:13:03 pm

The only level spawn kills could really ever be an issue would be stack. As long as someone doesn't aim at a spawn point ready to kill the player as soon as they start there shoudn't be an issue. Even allowing a player 2 seconds after they press start is enough time usually on 3 player because the other player acts as a distraction. If someone does actually spawn kill during the competition I will resign and ignore that player for the rest of the meet. Only massive losers would ever do it in a competition setting.

I agree with Jimbo on the set up of the tournament. 3 player brackets, 3 games, first to 20, most kills after 3 games advance. In my experience 3 games should always give the better player enough time to get more kills than the other 2. This will also get rid of any luck factors that may or may not arise.

Afan, you don't want a competition? Dude, this whole community is based on competition man. You would seriously be the only one lol.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on April 22, 2012, 07:26:33 pm

Quote from: karljobst on April 22, 2012, 07:13:03 pm

Afan, you don't want a competition? Dude, this whole community is based on competition man. You would seriously be the only one lol.

When did I say that?

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: SimThreat on April 22, 2012, 07:30:25 pm

Quote from: Fanny on April 22, 2012, 07:06:46 pm

I still lean towards playing BOTH these scenarios (options B and C) with our free time and NOT making them into a tournament.

P.s Me so silly  :-*

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on April 22, 2012, 07:34:56 pm

I chose A.  How is that NOT competition?  And I'm not the only one.  Both Patrik and Eddie voted the same (last I checked).  Not sure where you're confusion came from.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: SimThreat on April 22, 2012, 07:40:19 pm

Oh yeah, forgot you voted :) Carry on....

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Imperfect Clark on April 22, 2012, 08:03:39 pm

C

Deal breaker with B is the audience factor.  I like introducing a little bit of chaos and seeing what kind of upsets could happen.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Mavalock on April 22, 2012, 09:33:32 pm

C

Initially, I was surprised to see 3P gather so much support, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.  Screenwatching is tried and true, so we already know for the most part who ranks where and who can beat whom.  Split screen is good idea in theory, but I see that as an idea that can go either extremely well or extremely poorly with little chance of any middle ground.  Although 3P does change the game in a significant way (forcing more aggressive gameplay), I think this is a change that will keep both the players and viewers happy (or most of them, anyway).  The main problems that I can see are mostly administrative, but we have plenty of time to figure it all out should this be the decision.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Jimbo on April 22, 2012, 10:03:19 pm

Screw it, I'm officially going to vote C, even though I spent like 20 bucks on cables and such already!

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: SimThreat on April 22, 2012, 10:08:32 pm

20 bucks? You cheap bastard.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Thiradell on April 23, 2012, 01:59:40 am

This 3P support is totally inexplicable (the exact opposite of last year) and TOTALLY AWESOME

Now we just need to add in all weapon sets and we'll have a fun tourney! :P

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Thiradell on April 23, 2012, 02:00:12 am

C

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Ngamer on April 23, 2012, 02:38:49 am

Quote from: TreAKAHotdog on April 22, 2012, 10:46:21 am

I'm not on Jon's list, so I can't vote.

Whoops, knew it was missing someone.  Added, go ahead and vote.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Your Eliteness on April 23, 2012, 04:44:25 am

I couldn't choose between A, B or C. I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to enjoy it regardless of the settings used.

Though I like Jim's idea of starting with 3 player matches then dropping back to 2 player later.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Illu on April 23, 2012, 07:12:41 am

Looks like it's gonna be C, well should be interesting, just watch out for "accidental" spawn kills.

But yea I'm not gonna be negative about this, I just want to point out that accidents might happen and in that case you could have like a rule that kill doesn't count basically.

So like hmm... some match ends in like 20-13-18, if player 1 had a spawn kill then his score would really be 19... ahh screw it you'll probably sort it out during the tournament if something weird happens.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: wishiwasfamous on April 23, 2012, 11:01:43 am

A or C works for me.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Jimbo on April 23, 2012, 12:08:33 pm

Matis texted me and his vote is officially B.*

*I somehow misread his text as voting C, I'm stupid, and I apologize!

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: NathanStinson on April 23, 2012, 12:36:18 pm

Quote from: Jimbo on April 23, 2012, 12:08:33 pm

Matis texted me and his vote is officially C.

proof?

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Scrambler Fanny on April 23, 2012, 01:12:56 pm

Matis doesn't remember how to post?

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Illu on April 23, 2012, 02:17:13 pm

did Eise really vote C? I think he meant A

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: TreAKAHotdog on April 23, 2012, 07:13:11 pm

Thanks!

c

Title: Voting B
Post by: David Wonn on April 23, 2012, 07:52:50 pm

I decided in the end to vote B just because of how fun split screen matches have been in past experience. Plus, I'd hate to see the cool equipment go to waste. I welcome whichever new option wins in any event.

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Smit on April 24, 2012, 04:06:58 pm

Quote from: Illu on April 23, 2012, 02:17:13 pm

did Eise really vote C? I think he meant A

Honestly, I really want to do both. Would be awesome to try out the 3 player format with all those awesome players, the lag is pretty much non-existent in 3-player games but still, even in 1vs1 sometimes you are stuck running around with no gun and I am just afraid that some people might get, against their own will, get driven into a corner from where there is no escape.. And trust me, that will happen.. If somebody you are in a firefight with somebody and you see the other person spawning in a nearby room where you know you just picked up all the ammunition and guns, which player would you go after? pretty easy decision in my opinion..

Corner camping "#"% is the real problem with 1vs1.. A big step to that would be turning off SIGHT!!!

Title: Re: Virginia GE players: Vote on this year's tournament format! (+discuss your pick)
Post by: Quiet Bol on April 24, 2012, 07:00:58 pm

C