The Elite Forum
The Big Three Plus One => GoldenEye 007 => Topic started by: Time was untied when set. on September 25, 2012, 07:03:21 pm
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This post has been edited out of respect for Axel Z. I apologize for anything negative towards you that came due to this post. It was never my intention to hurt your integrity.
Edit: Clemens changed the post, I changed the topic title
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;)
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looooooooooooooooooool
You can't be serious right?
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This for real? I hope not cause i was looking forward to seeing a new genius strat and not this hardware manipulating bullshit...
(does this mean i'm still Train Strat Master? :p)
btw this is perfecty legit isn't it?
i can't see no reason why it shouldn't be
LOL
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Yeah i was looking forward to an epic new strat as well. Biggest letdown ever.
TheBigBossman007 7:14 pm
I think if that glitch is allowed on the ranks I'm done with the elite
CarathornPD 7:18 pm
ok fuck this shit. I cant believe that of ALL people, proof mods actually approved this and kept it on the rankings while it was being hold private from the rest of the community. We should seriously question the integrity of a lot of people here.
EDIT: Going to edit this post with every single comment from every player i recieve who is against the glitch.
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Two things.
1. hardware mod, not allowed, its in the current proof policy. Ban all times recently posted by trent.
2. Axel Z clearly abused his power as proof mod to get early access to the vid and then use the knowledge gained from that vid to improve his own times before the video was made public. Integrity = gone?
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This sort of stuff has been illegal since day 1, written into the earliest of proof policies.
Excellent detective work Clemens.
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Holy shit, this timesaver is utter gayness. After seeing Axels video, I thought it probably is some crooked cartridge (well-known and banned in OoT) kind of thing to manipulate the timer. Well, that is quite similar and obviously not legit ffs!
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What a let down.
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jimmy bauer : Link4626: yeah then what i understand of it (without seeing the private vid), this is complete bullshit
Link4626: controller modification should obviously be illegal
durk : p much end of competitive speedrunning on GE and PD if it's allowed
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We need democratically elected leaders/proof mods. Axel is a fucking joke. So it this 'new strat'.
I'm also someone who will ignore the elite if this is allowed. I will also leave if Axel remains a proof mod.
good luck trying to get anything done decomcratically in this community, karl. I've tried it and it wont work. Eventhough I 100% agree with you
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I'm an idiot. Should've realized when the vid wasn't insta released it was via something like that. *hands out flaming torches*
Whenever the speedrun strategy starts as
"first you remove everything in the controller but the circuit board" that sounds like something not allowable...
My initial reaction was at the minimum trent's recent times go down (and obviously axel's) + we get another GE proof mod. It's pretty disgusting seeing the times on the ranks.
I only know what I skimmed in this thread though.
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I've never been so disappointed in my life. Those times need to be taken down immediately. Trent should also be banned for being a cheating scumbag.
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Yeah, not sure why the times are still up there now - we don't need to change the rules to disallow them, I don't see how they're not *already disallowed* under the current policy.
Could have lived with Ax not making vids available if we'd at least changed the proof policy to stop it in future, but to keep them, allow illegal times to stay up then *use the same thing* to put up untied WRs based on vids he refuses to publish is beyond ridiculous. Time for a new mod.
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edited
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I'm not saying this for any other reason than it being my true opinion.
I don't think Axel needs to be de-modded. He has overall been a very consistent mod who has put forward a lot of hard work in the community. He is vigilant with proof calls and does stuff like uploading other people's runs so there are videos available on the rankings page. I really respect the work he does around here.
In this situation he was obviously faced with a group of people (the Ohio crew) who are known to be pernicious and act immorally without regard for others. Axel didn't know what to do in this situation and felt pressured to give in to the "cool kids" and go along with their ploy. I don't blame Axel at all for what he did here. If there's one thing he should have done, it would be to consult with other respected members and moderators of the elite community (like Hugo, DK, Henrik, etc) to get a bigger consensus. Axel didn't do this and went along with what the manipulative people pressured him into doing. I can't really blame him for that.
Axel obviously made a mistake, and it's easy for us to say we would have handled this differently, but we don't know unless we're in his spot. Axel's track record of being one of the best moderators ever in the elite, in my opinion, should forgive him from this lapse in judgment and I am all for allowing him to continue doing his good work in the community.
As for Trent & the Ohio crew, we simply need to keep playing our games, living our lives and doing our things all the while never forgetting the true kind of people they are. What their true character is like. They are bad people who take pleasure in putting others down and being bullies. They are much like the ex-girlfriend who cheated on you but keeps telling you she has feelings for you and wants you back. You can't resist, but you know she will only do the same thing over and over again. This is how manipulative people work, and this is what Trent is like. There is nothing we can really do to stop him. Banning his legit times from the ranks would be silly. All we should do is move on, forgive, but not forget the kind of man he truly is.
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Actually surprisingly enough I agree with Goose. At first i was pissed with axel, but then i realized something...
This is someone who has never had an untied, and he has put a ton of work into GE. He has a clear record and has proof for all of his times. All that happened here is he gave into a moment of weakness and saw a chance to finally get his beloved untied, even though Im sure he knew it was cheap and would be frowned upon later. Considering trent more than likely manipulated him (along with potentially 1 or more people), its not a shocker to me that he left the times on the ranks. I honestly think we should forgive Axel for this poor decision he made, take down all times gotten with this glitch, put the ranks back to the way they WERE, and just allow him to remain as proof mod, but with some sort of "probation" or something. Meaning if anything else sketchy happens he will be taken down, but honestly at the moment i think its a bad idea to put all this blame on Axel, someone who is clearly a nice guy with a solid character and didn't intentionally mean to harm anyone. Yes he made a mistake, but hes only human.
Ban times with this strat, Trent should be ashamed of himself, and just let Axel continue as proof mod.
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Actually surprisingly enough I agree with Goose. At first i was pissed with axel, but then i realized something...
This is someone who has never had an untied, and he has put a ton of work into GE. He has a clear record and has proof for all of his times. All that happened here is he gave into a moment of weakness and saw a chance to finally get his beloved untied, even though Im sure he knew it was cheap and would be frowned upon later. Considering trent more than likely manipulated him (along with potentially 1 or more people), its not a shocker to me that he left the times on the ranks. I honestly think we should forgive Axel for this poor decision he made, take down all times gotten with this glitch, put the ranks back to the way they WERE, and just allow him to remain as proof mod, but with some sort of "probation" or something. Meaning if anything else sketchy happens he will be taken down, but honestly at the moment i think its a bad idea to put all this blame on Axel, someone who is clearly a nice guy with a solid character and didn't intentionally mean to harm anyone. Yes he made a mistake, but hes only human.
Ban times with this strat, Trent should be ashamed of himself, and just let Axel continue as proof mod.
Agree.
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This whole thing is hysterical! :D
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I agree with Shawn, this whole thing is mass-hysteria and slightly entertaining, but in no way do I blame Axel for anything he did and I'm sure things will work themselves out.
The times will NEVER make the ranks, so we won't have to worry about our big dogs "leaving" or anything I'm sure; glad I didn't post anything on the front page about this crap!
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The times will NEVER make the ranks
You mean the ones that are on there now, some of which have been for a few days?
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Aside from the whole modification problems, speedrunning is about completing the game as fast as possible. There is a certain great aesthetic about a fast run. If you watch the youtube timer, you should be able to at least approximate what time a person will achieve (I know its not perfect). According to the youtube timer Axel gets about 1:40 which is a far cry from the 1:19 that appears on the screen. This is clearly a timer manipulation glitch instead of a new "strat." He is not beating the level any faster (in fact, much slower than he is capable of). I cannot wait for these times to be removed.
I also agree with Goose that Axel should stay as proof mod because his dedication to proof and videos for all times has been unmatched. He also seems like a good guy. Thanks for getting this out there Clemens.
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Great point, Dwit. Not only is this hardware manilulation, but it also actually makes the runs even SLOWER, thus losing the original point of speedrunning. Its like the TWINE glitch where you pause a bunch of times to gain time. Basically adding real time to gain game time due to a gay glitch. RETARDED.
But still, even in all of this I have to give props to trent for putting the work in and finding it. Even if it doesnt count, he still put in a lot of work and deserves SOME credit.
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It's a neat manipulation of the game timer and maybe some people would have fun seeing how low you can get a run on console as a side league or something. (And then I'm sure we'd see overclocked consoles and all that too.)
An interesting novelty, but certainly not for the official world rankings.
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I've just had time to fully review what's happened. I apologize for not being here earlier, really busy with real-life stuff.
Axel and I have discussed this some, and we're not quite ready to call this quits just yet. I'd also like to say that Axel basically found out about this, played the game for 18 minutes to get a record, stopped, and since then, all this has happened. What should he have done differently? Yes, it was privileged knowledge, but it was inevitable that the knowledge be privileged in the process of things, and I don't blame him for trying a new, crazy trick out. The fact that he got one record with it shouldn't put any heat on him; he could've done a lot worse.
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"Its like the TWINE glitch where you pause a bunch of times to gain time."
This is and has always been legal, because in the process of making things illegal here, we have to come up with something other than "this trick is dumb." Bear that in mind.
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Yes but this isnt even the same, anyway. This is essentially freezing the N64 briefly because it isnt able to handle whatever imput you are doing with the controller. perhaps david wonn can explain it later?
Its like if you wiggled the cart to make enemies move around, what if you could get an instant hostage completion every time with it? Would that be accepted? I doubt it, so why accept this. Some things are black and white and this is one of those things.
Again, I give trent credit for putting in the work. He put in a ton of work to beat silo dltk this way and i totally respect that. He could have handled the situation more respectfully, however.
I say give Axel a few days to enjoy his untied, then revert the ranks to the way they were before this crap. Everyone wins and everyone is happy, etc...
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Jeez, people need to lighten up a little bit. This is a pretty cool result even if it shouldn't count on the ranks. And yeah, maybe it shouldn't have been presented as an untied with a crazy new strat without explanation, but at least that generated some interest. Look how many people are viewing the board tonight... when was the last time that number was so high?
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I think it's cool and everyone complaining needs to cool off.
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But still, even in all of this I have to give props to trent for putting the work in and finding it. Even if it doesnt count, he still put in a lot of work and deserves SOME credit.
Trent did put significant time into this, from his first random experiments all the way to the point that he found a way to get lower times with it. I have no idea what exactly lead to him doing what it is he did, but the results were definitely fascinating. Whenever he does get around to explaining the entire thing and showing the private video that was linked in Dave's original post, I imagine at least a few people here will be intrigued by it.
The freezing seems to be similar to what happens when you push the button on a Gameshark Pro, more or less putting the game at some sort of breakpoint while the N64 clock cycles continue, thus keeping the timers going. It's pretty neat that Trent managed to accomplish that effect without anything but the standard hardware, albeit partially disassembled.
I also don't think Trent was intentionally planning to get people excited and then disappoint them with the unveiling. In a world that allows CC, dot, SuperPads (not officially, but still), GC joysticks, etc, at least to him it didn't seem completely implausible that this could be allowed. I'm aware this is a much more extreme example, and the reaction here to this doesn't at all surprise me. However, I was looking forward to some sort of heated discussion about it, though it seems the community is almost unanimously against it, so I probably won't get to see that happen.
The way Trent went about revealing all of this definitely left something to be desired, but hey at least he didn't fake any videos! ;)
-Immoral Ohio Crew Member
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"To this day, no major game-breaking glitches have truly been uncovered in an attempt to shave massive chunks of time off of the current overall time of 1:12:52."
"Anyways, we need to start figuring out how to "break" GE."
Per the proof policy topic in the Goldeneye forum:
Something should be added to the proof policy about only using original, unmodified controllers. The 2.X styles are probably easier if you take the controller apart, for example, since you are free to position the analog stick wherever you like in relation to the other buttons.
How do you draw the line then, it's a slippery slope.
...yes, it is. The line hasn't been drawn here...yet.
My recent WRs are in compliance with the rest of the rules outlined in the topic. If you want this policy as the be-all, end-all, then it must be edited if you want these times taken down. Looks like someone needs to draw that line.
From the rankings page: "These are the best known records for GoldenEye on the Nintendo 64. All of our scores are achieved on an unmodified Nintendo 64 without cheating devices or codes." Unmodified N64? Check. No cheating devices or codes? Check.
If anyone knows of any other policies, please link me. I'm aware of the one linked on the forum homepage, but that's focused more on the actions of people in the past.
I've found a way to freeze Goldeneye (and multiple other N64 games) ad hoc using standard, unmodified N64 equipment. It's led to several very interesting discoveries on certain levels. I initially wanted to use the glitch for a Silo DLTK completion, but it doesn't look like it will be of help. Some more investigation and testing led to its use to freeze the game during certain level fadeouts and let the final mission objectives progress as normal. Because the mission timer stops as soon as the fadeout begins, you can cut off significant amounts of time from certain levels (3-4 seconds on Facility, >25 seconds on Train SA/00). This doesn't work for levels where the final objective completion involves a character disappearing; while the game is frozen, characters with a pre-determined path (Natalya escaping from Control, hostages on Frigate) have their motion altered and are unable to escape. While the game is frozen, guards will not shoot you, but drone guns will register one shot no matter the amount of time frozen.
The freeze can be implemented on every level with varying outcomes.
Dam - If you freeze the game past the point where the onscreen mainframe timer reaches zero, the timer will tick upwards for a few seconds. This is the case with most onscreen timers.
Facility - The freeze can be used to achieve faster times as already explained. You are unable to freeze past an objective B completion; it completes no matter how long the game has been frozen. This is also true in retrieving the door decoder from Doak.
Runway - Technically the freeze can be used here during the fadeout if you're waiting for either the missile battery or drone guns to destroy, but it's not really worth it.
Surface 1 - Nothing of note.
Bunker 1 - You can use the freeze to mess with Boris' walking path. You are unable to get past him hacking the computers and completing the objective.
Silo - The freeze can be used to get the onscreen timer to tick upwards, as I've showed in several videos. Doesn't appear that this can be used for Silo DLTK. You can, however, live up to 14 minutes and beyond. It's odd; if the game is frozen for an amount of time past a threshold time (that seems to vary), the game's internal mission timer only registers one to one-and-a-half minutes.
Frigate - I was unable to get the hostages to escape during the freeze as mentioned earlier. This would have been incredibly useful and had this been the case, I guarantee this technique would have been welcomed with open arms. Interesting, right?
Surface 2 - Nothing of note.
Bunker 2 - You can glitch the onscreen timer after Natalya activates the Goldeneye satellite to glitch upwards. You can also let her try to escape by going the wrong way and then watch her burn in the flames.
Statue - Some really neat stuff here. I've been able to force Trev to walk behind Lenin's statue, shoot him, and have him talk facing me and the bodyguards backwards. You still can't progress past a certain line or else the objective will fail. That's how he got so close to me in the one Statue vid I posted. If you slap Trev, Natalya and the helicopter never spawn. And for some reason, when I was messing around with the freeze when the helicopter was about to blow up, it simply didn't. Not sure why, but I'd never seen that before. Again, you can glitch the onscreen timer to tick upwards here too.
Archives - You can freeze the game past the point where Mishkin gives you the safe key, in which case he just leaves you and you can never get the flight recorder.
Streets - Same thing applies to the onscreen timer, but you aren't able to glitch past Valentin's objective A completion. You also can't get past failing the objective where Ourumov escapes with Natalya.
Depot - Nothing.
Train - Some interesting stuff when you get to Nat and everyone. If you freeze the game past Trev's last message where Ourumov blasts Nat's face, Ourumov won't fire his gun, and everyone just stands there chilling indefintely. You can then do the locks at your own leisure and complete the level. I showed this in one video. For struggling Train players such as myself, you can also use the glitch avoid failing objective A while on a speedrun, as I did in my Train Agent 1:11 vid. Nothing fake or edited here! It's a shame that everyone focused on the vid being fake instead of its actual contents and how it possibly could be used.
Jungle - Nothing that I know of. Can maybe do some cool stuff with Xenia.
Control - I was playing Control Agent when the idea of freezing during the fadeout first came to me (since Natalya was taking forever to escape). I already mentioned that won't work on this level, unfortunately. You can, however, freeze out the entire Natalya protection part such that the alarm activates as soon as Natalya completes her hacking objective. You can also freeze past this part, and you won't get credit for Natalya's hacking, but she runs back to the elevator regardless.
Caverns - Nothing.
Cradle - I've gotten Trev to run in the reverse direction while freezing during the intro cutscenes, and eventually run behind me and get trapped. Not really useful for speedrunning, though.
Aztec - Here's something: the freeze may allow a no-BA run on 00 agent. As soon as you insert the protocol in the mainframe, you can freeze the game and unfreeze as soon as the final onscreen timer hits one second and the fadeout begins. The drone guns will register one hit on you, but only one. This lets you do the final room with less health than initially required.
Egypt - Nothing.
Some common traits across all levels - on screen actions for the most part totally stop if you freeze the game for more than two or so seconds.
Now, it looks like everyone is super duper upset about these times being allowed on the ranks. Don't be upset at Axel; as he's stated several times, I reached out to him and asked why my times were taken down, provided my vids and an explanation of what was happening, and got my times reinstated after he verified their legitimacy. Axel obviously is trustworthy and capable of making intelligent, sound decisions; else he wouldn't have been elected into the position. His only fault, and he didn't know this at the time, was not providing the proof as he received it, which is highlighted in the duties of a proof moderator. I didn't know this either. We agreed to keep it a secret until I had a better understanding of the glitch and how it can be used on the rest of the levels. It's not like I could have kept the times up forever without any sort of proof or explanation, obviously.
The freeze, as far as I know, cannot be used to achieve new WRs outside of Facility A/SA/0 and Train SA/00, so it doesn't discount all the hours of Goldeneye speedrunning that are reflected in everyone's current PRs. You asked for a game-breaking glitch? Here it is. Use it or don't allow it based on the simple fact that I discovered it.
All the insults directed at me; that's fine. You're gonna do what you do. It doesn't really change anything. You went from outrage and anger to reconsideration and curiosity to impatience back to fury over 10 or 12 text characters posted in a thread on the internet; characters that I was well within my rights to post. Also, ask yourself why a 10 year veteran of the-elite would fake a video for a 65 point time (a two point gain for me) that wouldn't have been proof called anyway?
Anyways, the social experiment is over; hope I entertained at least a few of you. Long live the-elite! also duel 1 lolol
Considering trent more than likely manipulated him
I conned Axel using a bogus AIM name
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seriously wtf happened to this place
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Trent this is pretty awesome, i respect you for this. Anyway
Remove all the times done with this.
AZ has done a good job around here, but he made a mistake, let him stay as a mod.
Everyone is happy.
Bye.
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lol.
To be fair though I actually put effort into figuring out the freezing stuff at the end of your Train 1:11. I tried doing the frozen bond glitch all sorts of ways to stop the timer during the fade, which is essentially what you did, but I couldnt pull it off. I thought maybe you made that video as a troll to point us in the wrong direction. Not really that farfetched considering all the drama you caused by waiting forever to unviel the strat, And yes I did "con" Axel but lets face it... how long would it have taken for this strat to come to light if I never did that? I did it for the good of the Elite.
Again, props to Trent for finding something new in a game this old. Disappointing that its as extreme as it is, but I think its interesting and i wouldnt mind trying it for a side league, for fun.
I guess it's time to just close the book on it. I apologize if I came across fairly harsh by calling you a cheater, but I really just wish you had handled it differently.
And also, Trent can you make the tutorial video public so we can use this trick more easily?
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I just really don't want to take a part a damn controller to pull this shit off. It seems so... strange. This is brilliant stuff Trent, I apologize for calling your 1:11 vid a faked pile of crap but I was thinking like Clemens was all along.
I guess I would personally vote NO to the ranks for a plethora of reasons not needing to be stated in specifics, it would be ridiculous to watch a Control SA 4:10 run or something where the players just froze through the entire obj B area heh.
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Now we need to figure out how to select items without pausing..
This was done by Greg Woll.
Bunker 1 - Equipment Switch Without Pause (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMRusAmvPV4#)
There's our starting point.
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You were way out of line, Dave. Pretending to be someone else and using the information the way that you did was really not the way to go about this.
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Thanks for the nice update, Trent.
Clemens, you should be ashamed of yourself if the lines at the top of this topic were gathered under a false identity. That's 100x worse than anything Trent or anyone else has done.
Someone found a trick that works on 2 levels? Seems like the exact sort of thing everyone here would A: want to try right away and B: want included in the ranks. Dunno why everyone is getting so upset. Crazy.
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This is really cool stuff, Trent. You're absolutely right... just a few weeks ago there was talk about how this was such a well-designed game and couldn't be broken and all that, and here you've done it. People have always imagined just straight up fucking the timer over, and debate about whether it's a legit WR aside or not, it's just neat to see the limits of the game tested like this.
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k, current reaction
Kudos to Trent for his discovery. That really should be noted more. It's an impressive feat to find something new this long after release. Insults directed towards him for his discovery are unfair. This is, after all, a speedrunning community.
yeah, impersonating others just to benefit yourself (ok, mostly to benefit yourself) is pretty bad clem. We kinda ignored it b/c it's not something we're surprised about.
I think axel's main mistake was using that vid to his own advantage and keeping it a secret when he's not supposed to, but that's been noted. I don't feel he should be removed immediately, others are cool with it and quite frankly, who else is gonna do it that we'd be happier with (nobody). It's a thankless, someone's got to do it job and there aren't many candidates for it. I'm not going to care that much either way here since I didn't speedrun this game enough for my opinion on who the proof mod should or shouldn't be to matter anyway; it's just unfortunate the way it was handled.
In terms of speedrunning, I guess this is great, but then what's next opening up the 64 and finding another thing to press that might make the game go faster? Most broken games the community speedrunning wise completely dies as far as i know. Perhaps it's currently legal in the rules, but when we're starting phrases like speedrun strategy for train/facility on speedrunwiki
First, open up your controller
It just feels wrong, doesn't it?
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Yea play the game within the game, this is pretty much a hack.
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Well, that was a huge letdown. I was originally going to post a semi-hostile wall of text but decided not to after reading all of the posts. I don't support this "trick" for obvious reasons regardless of whether it works for 2 levels or 20 levels, though. I don't care if it is within the proof policy. That's an old, garbage policy that has always had loopholes.
The discovery itself is pretty awesome however. Also Trent, apologies for flat out saying your 1:11 was fake too but I thought you were trolling because of your cryptic behaviour the past week.
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mod·i·fi·ca·tion
n.
1. The act of modifying or the condition of being modified.
2. A result of modifying.
3. A small alteration, adjustment, or limitation.
What part of the word modification does Trent not understand? If you take your equipment apart to manipulate the console/game hardwarewise to gain ingame benefits its 100% a modified N64, EVEN if you don't add any other manipulative hardware yourself.
I dont see why this should be part of the discussion at all. The current proof policy does not need any more clarification on this matter, as it already clearly states mods are not allowed in any form or shape.
As for the trick itself, its a nice find and compliments to Trent for actually discovering it. Its interesting on itself and why not experiment with it. However I really disapprove of the way Trent and proof mods acted in this situation. If the mods were unsure on wether it was acceptable or not for actual speedruns, they should have brought forward the discussion on the forums for anyone to discuss it, thats where the forum is for.
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If anyone has been watching Wind Waker runs on twitch.tv recently, they are probably aware of some tricks that use a glitch having to do with the "Tingle Tuner." This is an in game item you get in the normal process of the game that can only be used if you have the Nintendo DS plugged into your console. It activates some bonus stuff that helps in a play through or speedrun. This feature, although later glitched, was programmed into the game and uses normal Nintendo hardware. This is very comparable to 2.X control styles in Goldeneye, because they too were programmed into the game to be used with normal Nintendo hardware.
"Trent's glitch" is a clear abuse of the normal Nintendo hardware which has never been allowed in any proof policy for any competitive video game. This would be comparable to "crooked cartridge" glitches, which some people have already mentioned and I thought might be the trick when all of this was still hidden. In Ocarina of Time speedruns, they had to find ways to exit Kokiri Forest without abusing or breaking the hardware; which they later did via a plethora of forest escapes. This didn't happen until a few years ago, whereas crooked cartridge has been known to be able to escape the forest for over 10 years. It's just common sense that whenever you are doing something OUTSIDE the game, it's cheating.
Yea play the game within the game, this is pretty much a hack.
Exactly this.
Let me ask you this. If it were possible to unplug the game cartridge mid run, and replace it with a cartridge of another game, which somehow glitched GE into freezing the timer, would this be allowed? Of fucking course not. How about unscrewing the console deck and detaching some of the semi-conductors to make the game run faster? Of course not. These are absolutely not comparable to cruise control or 2.X control styles because those are simply a matter of pressing certain buttons while playing the game - aka PLAYING THE GAME! Modifying controllers, consoles, cartridges, etc, is going OUTSIDE OF THE GAME to break it. No one is supporting what Trent has done aside from his best friends, for obvious reasons.
When I talked about "breaking the game" I meant from within. Finding areas to go out of bounds, skipping objectives, yeah all that, but from pushing buttons and doing things WITHIN THE GAME. Clemens and I both agreed that if "Trent's glitch" were doable from the normal "Frozen Bond" glitch we are all aware of, it would be completely legit.
It's not that it's because Trent found it, or it uses two controllers, or anything like that why "Trent's glitch" is obviously not allowed. It's because you dismantle a controller and repeatedly unplug the circuit board from the controller, clearly abusing the Nintendo hardware! It doesn't get more black and white than this.
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haha, what a joke.
axel z is a joke too.
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Extremely well put, Goose.
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I guess goose described the hack perfectly, eventhough it has been posted more or less in this topic before.
If there's anything Axel Z could do to save some face, he should at least start taking down these times gotten with the hardware hack asap.
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I had a chat with Axel and he seems genuinely apologetic about what happened.
My attitude has changed and I'd be cool with him remaining a mod.
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I literally lolled when people said what i did was bad :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik:
Have fun waiting 6 months to find out about the strat if I didn't do that!!
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Is this method permitted?
When everybody uses this
speed run is not pleasant
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To me, taking apart the controller is definitely not equivalent to CC, 2.X or using GC stick.
CC and GC stick is basically equal to a very good normal stick. If you use a GC stick, you shouldn't have any advantage over a player who uses a 10/10 normal stick, it's just that the normal sticks are of horrible quality so they won't stay perfect for long. 2.X is a control style in the game and I see nothing wrong with using it. If you're using something that could be done with normal, albeit in perfect condition, controllers, it should be allowed, IMO. I might be talking out of my ass here but this is what I've concluded after reading through a few threads.
You have to draw the line somewhere and fiddling with the hardware like that seems like an obvious place to say stop. Next, someone will find a way to make the timer always say 00:00 by stomping on the N64 in a certain way.
Just my noob GE input.
EDIT: I forgot to say that I still think it's a pretty cool find, though I think more people would have an easier time appreciating it if Trent didn't act like a cryptic annoying kid about it.
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It's just common sense that whenever you are doing something OUTSIDE the game, it's cheating.*
*Except for dot, rubberbands, etc.. those are okay.
Modifying controllers, consoles, cartridges, etc, is going OUTSIDE OF THE GAME to break it.*
*Except for JAP cartridges, GC joysticks, etc.. those are okay.
In what way is this black and white? I'm not even arguing one side or the other here, it's just blatantly incorrect to say that we don't allow any controller/cartridge mods and that we don't allow players to "do something outside the game". Obviously this is an extremely different case, and as Stefan said there has to be a line drawn somewhere. It's a matter of defining clearly what that line is in a way that would prevent similar issues from arising (assuming this does get officially ruled as invalid as I'm expecting it will be).
Also:
It's because you dismantle a controller and repeatedly unplug the circuit board from the controller, clearly abusing the Nintendo hardware!
This sounds like a lack of understanding of what Trent is actually doing, but maybe I'm just misunderstanding your post. As far as I know, he hasn't made that video public yet, so I wouldn't expect you to know exactly what he's doing.
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Just give up. You can argue for 10,000 years and it wont be accepted. Awesome find, its fun Im sure to use, but it wont make the world ranks.
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So I'm not allowed to argue the content of Goose's post? My post was intended to be neutral as far as this "debate" goes, he just said a few things that I felt the need to comment on.
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Just on the record I would like to say I think Superpad and gamecube sticks should be banned. It's retarded, cheap, and has ruined a few levels on the ranks.
Furthermore, imagine if someone found a massive timesaver by wiggling the cart. Thats the same as pressing on the circuit board plugged into player 2. It's giving the game some sort of imput from the OUTSIDE (keyword: OUTSIDE) that is impacting the performance of the N64. Its like, the n64 is confused or something so it just freezes (hint: trent said this works for many games). Therefor its clear that this can't be allowed, because it isnt a glitch from within the game itself. All we do by modifying the cart for Jap is save ourself time getting a Jap n64 (actually you can use gamesharp or n64 password anyway..) . It doesnt impact anything else and the game plays as normal. I honestly feel like you guys are just grasping at straws here. YES this trick is awesome, fun, etc. I would love to see an epic train sa time with it or 00A. but that doesnt mean it deserves to make the OFFICIAL WORLD RANKINGS. Imagine submitting the run to SDA and saying "oh by the way, i had a circuit board plugged into player 2 i pressed on during the fade" Woud be retarded.
Congrats again to Trent, but this dog has had its day and i think its time for us to move on . GG.
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I literally lolled when people said what i did was bad :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik:
It is an offense after all:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_theft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_theft)
But I guess the end justifies the means.
*Except for JAP cartridges, GC joysticks, etc.. those are okay.
Lol @ complaining about JAP. A rule that would force an asian player to buy an imported western cartridge + system to join the world rankings would be quite irrational, wouldn't it?
And since the original stick is a catastrophe in the long term, it'd be really strict to force anyone that still want's to run these games 13 years after release to either cope with his inferior 2/10 stick or to crawl ebay for ages and hope for a 8+ stick.
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I don't use dot, rubberbands, GC control sticks...
and arguing against a JAP cartridge is just lol.
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lol why do you even bring up JAP carts in this Woll? Its a legit copy of GE made by nintendo for N64...?
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I wasn't complaining about JAP, I was pointing out that most (non Japanese) people here (as far as I know) modify the JAP cartridge rather than use other means (GS, passport) in order to play it. That was the only reason I even mentioned it there. I figured I didn't need to clarify that that was what I was referring to, but I guess I was wrong. Wow.
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There's nothing wrong with removing the plastic shell of your N64 if you want, because that doesn't affect anything on the inside of the games or in the programming. Same goes for cartridges. This is a very apples and oranges discussion but for whatever reason you think they're all the same.
What if we discovered that when you threw the console across the room causing it to freeze, then restarted it, whatever level you were playing would show a best time of 0:01? Would that count as the new WR?
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Obviously this is an extremely different case
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Face it. The only reason you think it's different and aren't kicking up a fuss is because one of your best friends found it. If Clemens or I found this, you and the Ohio crew would be trolling the boards to hell right now.
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What if we discovered that when you threw the console across the room causing it to freeze, then restarted it, whatever level you were playing would show a best time of 0:01? Would that count as the new WR?
lool
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I'm not even arguing for this to be allowed, holy shit. I've been making neutral comments, regardless of how you choose to read them. My first post gave Trent props for what he managed to do with this finding, my second post argued a couple generalizations you made about how the rankings should be run.
I'm sorry for attempting to participate in the discussion. This kind of shit reminds me why I just lurk here most of the time any more.
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(https://i.imgur.com/X9KDX.jpg)
What if you put in this cartridge and used it to reprogram the N64's timer to 1/10th of its normal speed? Then you could lower all your PRs by 1/10th! Totally legit right?
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wow at the turn this topic has taken. I think people are totally blowing things out of proportion to the examples Woll was using. Woll is actually a smart individual and has been around the community a long time and actually knows what he is talking about (despite what some people seem to think:-p)
I think relevant discussion is a good healthy, thing, not totally blowing it all off with a dismissive, mocking attitude (Clemens) or trolling comments out of context (Goose)
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An irrelevant side-note, but the Super Mario Kart community allows members to legally take their controllers apart and saw off the ball on the back of the control pad which makes a technique possible on some levels which it normally wouldn't which allows for much faster records. The seems to be apples to oranges to what Trent has done, but it still is modifying a controller to achieve faster times, so it does happen out there, FWIW (not much).
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that is, indeed, an irrelevant side-note Stinson. why would you post it when even you think its irrelevant.
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I guess Woll is trying to push and find the boundries of what the proof policy should allow and what not. He could have said something along the lines of "where do you say stop and where not, its a complicated matter" but he decided to kind of play devils advocate. Anyway, his point still stands.
where DO we draw the line.
This is why I said earlier that I dare the proofmods to come forward with an updated relevant version of the proof policy asap that will conver most of the discussed things here. We could discuss from that point on, but it might be a good idea to wait till an initial setup for a new policy has been made first.
but this could take a while since Tyler is AWOL'd to fuck and Axel is scared to post anything anymore. gg mods
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Nobody is going to step up and make a new policy, so Hugo, you and I and others like Clemens, etc, those who care, will have to make one. Then we'll post it. Everyone will go "ok that sounds good" and it will become official. This is pretty much the only way it will happen.
I don't want to work on this right now but maybe sometime in the next week I will.
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I dare the proofmods to come forward with an updated relevant version of the proof policy
Sup with separation of powers like in any other modern federation? Proof mods are already the judiciary and executive power, shouldn't it be different people that carry out the legislative power and enact a new proof policy?
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Also Trent, apologies for flat out saying your 1:11 was fake too but I thought you were trolling because of your cryptic behaviour the past week.
It's cool. I thought one of your Dam 00 vids was fake a long time ago. We're even.
I literally lolled when people said what i did was bad
The fact that you don't understand the wrong in what you did is bewildering.
but it also actually makes the runs even SLOWER
My Statue Agent 2:25 was slower than Derek Clark's Statue 2:26.
I dare the proofmods to come forward with an updated relevant version of the proof policy asap that will conver most of the discussed things here
Agreed. The new policy needs to cover "modification" of N64 controllers, as the current policy does not. Note: at what point does a controller become "modified" enough such that its use becomes illegal? People smash controllers all the time on the ground which could possibly affect the circuit board in ways that have yet to be seen. Right? Probably sounds ridiculous, but this statement is in line with some of the other suggested possibilities in this thread.
I was really looking forward to allowing Wonn the chance to mess around with Goldeneye this weekend in an attempt to solve the strat. I know he enjoys that kind of stuff. Sorry man; it wasn't supposed to come out this way. I appreciated your comments in the other thread. It was a nice site to see actual collaboration on the boards, however. It almost felt like the good old days. I see my times are off the ranks now, so everyone can breathe a huge sigh of relief and carry on as usual.
Also, empty threats to leave the-elite are always humorous.
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If I start to think about this much then the lines do start to blur, but I don't think there's many who could come up with any mod/hack strats really and even less would probably bother.
I think there seems to be a pretty clear majority who seem to have a clear idea of what should or should not be allowed on the rankings though. I mean I don't think there's much confusion about this really, I think it would be a challenge to find some strat on which we couldn't agree on if it's legit or not.
Now I remember swaff mentioning about trying improve the ability to turn by filing off the edges a bit around the control stick but that isn't even possible I think because the game has a built in limit to how sharp you can turn? But something like that would be the same as the case with third party controllers, that is we can't even know if someone is doing this or not. The videos however and the communication between players and all that does ensure though that the rankings are very fair I would say.
Also the thing with 2.X control styles is kinda that it's allowed mostly because it can only be utilized on a few levels, I'm not sure but my feeling is that if this could be used in like half the levels then it might get banned and thrown on a separate ranking.
The thing is though that we are all adaptable and it's a good thing, the rankings are a living thing in a way, it's not a static thing, it keeps changing and evolving in many ways depending on the situation, time and people.. and I think it's ok.
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The fact that you don't understand the wrong in what you did is bewildering.
Sorta like creating drama for your own pleasure in a self described "social experiment"? Wrong in that sense?
What I did was hilarious, and you know it. If Goose had found a strat and I tricked him into telling me it, you would be laughing your ass off. You're just upset because I put an end to your drama that you loved so dearly. Deal with it.
And how is trev shot slower? It is faster. you shoot trev so he talks faster, and you finish the level earlier. Just because you did a pause or whatever in your 226 means nothing. The general fact here is that a 1:15 gotten with your trick on train is going to hella slower than a 1:27 gotten without it. Its a simple fact and you know it.
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The fact that you don't understand the wrong in what you did is bewildering.
dont cry about people hacking back to unravel the truth. If it didn't happen, we'd all be looking at a destroyed WR list uncluding Dual A 0:01.
@goose
I'd be willing to put forward an initial setup for a new proof policy, if people help me out wording things accordingly, which can be kind of hard to do when you're not an native english speaker.
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If you send me a first draft of a proof policy, I can definitely help you out with the wording and sentence structure and all that. Not a problem at all! And we can send it around to several people for maximal input and consensus. It will be like a peer reviewed professional paper.
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One of the first thoughts that struck me when reading about this trick was that it would, if allowed, lead to slower TAS times than console times simply because it's a trick that can't be emulated (at least using a standard emulator). This to me makes a pretty good line to draw regarding the legitimacy of tricks utilized "outside" the game, i.e. the tricks must not influence the actual gameplay in any way. (i guess similar things has been said in this topic already)
(of course this is not the only line that should be drawn)
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Thats the first thing I realized as well. And good point. Although i think this whole thing has been beaten to death enough by now.. no need to beat a dead horse hehe...
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And about item switching... the main issue is that the only way to make it worth it is youll need to switch from camera to key analyzer (i think) at least on bunker 1. You might also need to screw the key analyzer up so that it keeps working and doesnt throw the key out/complete for the trick to work. Would be so awesome if someone figured it out though,,
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His [mine] only fault, and he didn't know this at the time, was not providing the proof as he received it, which is highlighted in the duties of a proof moderator. I didn't know this either. We agreed to keep it a secret until I had a better understanding of the glitch and how it can be used on the rest of the levels. It's not like I could have kept the times up forever without any sort of proof or explanation, obviously.
I can think of two more things I did wrong or could've done better on this entire matter, though the second isn't officially confirmed yet.
Firstly, through privileged knowledge, I did, for unethical (and you may say selfish) purposes only, untie the time using the new glitch. I played this for 18 minutes as I was curious how this would work out and was actually surprised I got a completion so fast. Sorry about being one of the first trying out a glitch that probably won't be legit anyway. To be honest, I played some 00A but did not get a completion which in retrospect, might have turned in my favor. I'm saying that I easily could've untie this more if I wanted to but figured people would seeing it as unfair so I decided to stop with only one untied and ultimately thought of saying something like "have fun beating this guys!" atm Trent, along with my 119 vid, would reveal himself and his vids. I thought of it being exciting who gets the next untieds etc. At this point, how strangely it may sound, I was convinced this would be legit (lol). I can see you're asking why. I acted before thinking. I got manipulated by the quotes Trent posted earlier where both Woll and Lovins mentioned "genius" and "sexy completion" and therefore more or less took for granted this was legit (lol fail). I'm not at all trying to blame this on quotes posted by Trent but it ultimately lead me to think this indeed was legit as two of the most respected GE players to grace this site didn't seem to complain about it. But I should have taken the quotes with a grain of salt. Unfortunately I did not.
The legitimacy of this glitch and its outcome is the second thing I could've anticipated better and the fact that this insane timesaver Trent found would lead to a lot of controversy. That I knew. But I naively enough thought about it as similar to 2.x.: it will be discussed and against at first but then people will think of it as legit eventually.
I'm not an insanely competitive person or anything like that, but I've always been obsessed in rankings and statistics (not only elite ranks) and I just saw a chance of getting my first ever untie and didn't focus on anything but that. I got blind. I saw the opportunity and took it. Would you honestly say you wouldn't had in my position? Of course I knew people would still think, if this glitch turned out to be legit, of my 1:19 as a mediocre and cheap run, but hey, an untied is an untied.
For that, and this entire matter, I am truly sorry elite. I sure failed bigtime on this.
Trent, insane discovery, though unfortunately it looks like you more or less wasted your time (rather harshly put). I am truly sorry for that.
Clemens, I would be ashamed if I were you but obv some people think you did the right thing. Good job sir.
Cara and Goose you need to calm down. This needs to be reconsidered over and over before even suggesting writing a new Proof Policy. Third, YE, me (and Ngamer?) will work this out somehow (with your input).
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Goose is one of the smartest and most rational thinking eliters. I wouldn't mind if he was one of those ultimately in charge of the proof policy for instance.
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Clemens did an acceptable thing by blowing this all up and finally putting things out in the open, and Axel didn't do anything wrong by taking some private time with exceptional knowledge to try to get something he's always wanted with Trent's strat and permission; I truly think this, calm down people, jesus.
How about we consider making a list of things that are outright BANNED from the rankings rather than try to create a list of things that are allowed? There's a billion types of 3rd party controllers and what if I used the fishing pole to turn 50x faster than a regular N64 controller would? Just saying...
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in before trent finds out you can complete all levels at 0:02 with the circuit board from the fishing controller plugged into slot 3
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Cara and Goose both need to calm down. My current real-life schedule is very busy, don't have time to keep up with this except at nights. It's being taken care of.
I talked with Ngamer last night. If you'd like to propose new things that need to be included in the proof policy, feel free to do so, but writing a new one from scratch is pointless.
Pretty awesome discoveries, Trent, but the times can't be allowed on the ranks. I'll edit the proof policy on the forum.
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Loving the fishing controller references <3
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If i ever get an untied with the fishing controller I am going to say "holy shit boys, I just reeled in a biggin!"
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When it comes to the Goldeneye rankings and the proof policy, Ngamer is less knowledgeable than a five year old. It's hilarious that you guys are actually consulting with him about this. Instead, you should discuss this matter with people who speedrun this game.
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Note: at what point does a controller become "modified" enough such that its use becomes illegal?
I would say when you can do something in the game that's not possible with an unmodified controller.
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why is everyone telling everyone to calm down? Seriously wtf
I am calm, I just like to get things done now, and now is the good time to discuss it and get something done. If you cant keep up because of IRL stuff then thats legit but dont tell me to calm down. I'm only just discussing stuff?
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Loving the fishing controller references <3
If i ever get an untied with the fishing controller I am going to say "holy shit boys, I just reeled in a biggin!"
LOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOOLOLOLLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLLLOLOLOLLOOLOLOOLOLOLOLLOOLOLOLLO'd my eyes out!!!!!!!!1
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An irrelevant side-note, but the Super Mario Kart community allows members to legally take their controllers apart and saw off the ball on the back of the control pad which makes a technique possible on some levels which it normally wouldn't which allows for much faster records.
And this garbage is one of the chief reasons why I've never gone back to time trialing SMK, and never will.
And yes, this post was very relevant here. Don't do what the SMK community did, Eliters! They already opened Pandora's box, and you guys are almost there.
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Yeah, lets not do that :)
I have an little idea as far as 3rd party controllers goes even if I dont like them. There should be a list of 3rd party controllers that you are allowed to use (ones that does not improve the gameplay itself in any way like sharper turns or whatever) and maybe even the ones that are not allowed so people know. If they have a 3rd party controller that is not listed as "legit" or in the list(s) at all then they should have to ask if they are allowed to play with it, if its unclear or not that it improves the gameplay then the player shouldnt be allowed to use it until we know more about this controller and times gotten with it should be put in like a caranteen and vids should be made to review the gameplay.
I also think the policy should list what you are allowed to do to your controller/cartrigde/n64. Like if you are allowed to change joystick to a new better one or maybe even a gamecube joystick/if you are allowed to change the back of your jap cart or remove those things that blocks jap carts on the ntsc console. If they want to do/try something unlisted they should ask before they try anything and that would solve situations like this one. I mean I guess it can be hard to prove ppl are not lieing if they do use 3rd party controllers etc but at least that would mean that they have some guidelines to go after in the first place and hopefully it would maybe avoid some random dude thinking its ok to use his turbomega controller that makes Bond run 1.5 times faster than normal. Well its just a suggestion but its worth considering I think.
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Goldeneye has limits to both turning speed and running speed. So a 3rd party controller should not be able to do any better than a 10/10 controller.
The only exception to this would be if regular 10/10 controllers don't actually reach the limits, however i have a few brand new controllers where the crosshair in menus actually go up when holding fully down which i'm pretty sure is a sign that the limit has been reached.
Also i'm not sure how this relates to real controllers, but when using emulators the input usually have a range between 0 - 128. And the limit for Goldeneye is at 75 (holding the stick beyond that makes no diffrence).
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Wait, then what's the limit on an official N64 controller, assuming it's brand new and has a perfect stick? 75?
You know, I've never really liked GE speedrunning since 2010. I'm glad I quit. The newer "strats" involve modification of the hardware rather than discovering cool new strats in-game. Depot 25/41 and my other 2.x times don't even feel that great. Runway SA 22 isn't even impressive to me the way it was gotten. Facility 43 just seems like a slap in the face to people who worked hard to get 44/45 and even 46.. meh.
And the fishing puns are just lol.
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I'm just waiting for everyone else to quit, then I can find all the new strats and get all the WRs. See you in 50 years.
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Well said, Rayan!
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Wait, then what's the limit on an official N64 controller, assuming it's brand new and has a perfect stick? 75?
Now that i think of it i forgot to mention one detail, the range isn't limited to 75 when using crosshair or in the level selection screen. At those times the limit is at least 128 but perhaps there is no limit? Anyway, since my controller goes up instead of down while in level selection screen, that means official controllers can reach 128 or close to it.
Edit: I tested this and the crosshair going up instead of down happens when the value goes beyond 127. I'm guessing this is because the game uses a signed byte to represent the analog sticks Y-axis. In any case, this proves official controllers can reach at least 128.
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Henrik-
You're "tech jargon" is hawt! :)
Seriously! I don't understand it at all, but we as a community are extremely fortunate to have folk like you and Greg ramble on about the inner workings of this stuff. You're awesome!
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Since the original post has been modified, it's relatively difficult to follow what actually happened. Here's what I gather after picking through this pile of posts:
1. Trent found a glitch that somehow involved using a controller that had been taken apart (modified some way? How?)
2. This stops the timer in the game so you get a "faster" time.
3. He sends this video and his strat to Axel.
4. Axel used the "proof" video to get a better time himself.
5. Delirium Silence conned Axel into revealing the strat, then reveals it publicly.
6. Everybody is mad at Delirium Silence.
7. Everybody wants to remove times made with this glitch and leave Axel as mod.
8. Nathan Stinson is irrelevant.
Is this a fair summary?
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Pretty much
I still don't think we've actually had a full explanation on how the glitch works.
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6. Everybody is mad at Delirium Silence.
dafuk?
if trent and third are everyone then yess thats true :nesquik:
actually most people were happy that I got the secret out
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I am still missing the secret. I am baffled how everyone can make up their minds and I haven't seen a single actual explanation.
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From talking to Axel and Bryan, here is what I know about the strat.
It involves taking a 2nd controller apart and plugging it into the 2nd controller port (using whatever style you want, 1.2 for example). If you press on the circuit board a certain way, it freezes the game by making all objects disappear and completely freezes the mission timer while countdowns CONTINUE. The flipside to this glitch is that anything with a countdown to end the level can be advantageous because "unfreezing" the game as the level fades out will give you a completion at whatever point you froze the level using your controller originally...
It's basically the equivalent of stomping on your N64 a certain way to get the mission timer to stop at 0:09 and calling it a glitch. This would only be useful on Fac A/SA/00A and Train SA/00A, and possibly Aztec 00A for a no-armor run.
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Actually it would be useful on almost every level (lol @ forgetting Aztec A and SA since THE LAST 30 SECONDS WOULDNT EVEN COUNT) but yeah you're basically destroying your hardware to freeze the game.
It's equivalent to pissing inside your N64 to overclock the timers.
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plus it works on other games as well so its not a in game glitch.
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It's equivalent to pissing inside your N64 to overclock the timers.
roflllll
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if trent and third are everyone then yess thats true :nesquik:
actually most people were happy that I got the secret out
I'm not trying to point fingers, that was just my impression from the scattered discussion in this thread. Wheatrich and Axel were opposed in addition to Trent.
Personally I'm glad the info is out in the open, since I was pretty curious.
I just wish the parent hadn't been deleted so it would have been easier to figure out. :S
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An irrelevant side-note, but the Super Mario Kart community allows members to legally take their controllers apart and saw off the ball on the back of the control pad which makes a technique possible on some levels which it normally wouldn't which allows for much faster records.
And this garbage is one of the chief reasons why I've never gone back to time trialing SMK, and never will.
And yes, this post was very relevant here. Don't do what the SMK community did, Eliters! They already opened Pandora's box, and you guys are almost there.
I agree with David just with the use of 2nd controllers and rubber bands - Thats just how I personally feel - Any outsider looking in wanting to play is going to say "what rubber bands and gluing the stick wtf"
Its made me never want to play because its not even fun or legit in my mind anymore - cheers DW
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whoever is hacking my account since moving to the new boards or asking for what my password is - should be banned immediately - were a community not a hack session - So fess up and get your idiotic picture and saying below my screen name off my account -
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whoever is hacking my account since moving to the new boards or asking for what my password is - should be banned immediately - were a community not a hack session - So fess up and get your idiotic picture and saying below my screen name off my account -
http://elite.speedrunwiki.com/forum/index.php?topic=17955.0 (http://elite.speedrunwiki.com/forum/index.php?topic=17955.0)
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Lol it's not hard to change your avatar Witten. And Ngamer only gave people these avatars/texts because they didn't have avatars in the first place.
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Lol it's not hard to change your avatar Witten. And Ngamer only gave people these avatars/texts because they didn't have avatars in the first place.
It's not Witten, it's Sterling, proud owner of Sterling Yachts.
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even more LOL if that's true
in that case I hope he never figures out how to change his avatar
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HAHAH