The Elite Forum
The Big Three Plus One => GoldenEye 007 => Topic started by: Darth Vader on October 13, 2012, 10:11:40 am
-
How legit is my converter? Basically a converter i plug into my PAL console. Plug a NTSC or JAP game on the top of it and a PAL game (preferably SM64, since it's PAL chip is the best) on the back of it, so it allows me to play NTSC or JAP on my PAL console. Well, me and Illu decided to make an accurate test to confirm it!
We used the same online stop watch to confirm it. We set it to 10 minutes. We play the level control. As we press the A button to start the control mission, we click the mouse button as well at the exact same time, (we start the stop watch) simple. We both watch the first 2 cinemas. We enter the ending lift exactly as the stop watch rings (10 minutes has passed) I was excited to see what my time and Illu's time would be. Illu had a time of 9:46, my time was 9:56! The reason why my mission time is slower, is probably because the game simply runs faster on a converter, so the mission time would atomaticly run a bit faster as well. So my runs in real time seems 1 second faster of every minute! So of course this is nor a advantage or disadvantage for me (otherwise i would obviously cake a time of Control Agent 3:55 which is not the case here. Me and Illu are going to try a video of it and compare.
Other events that might confirm this:
- When Patrik visited me in late August this year, shortly after he fired up my GE he made a comment: Hmm the music in the menu seems just slightly faster than normal. Later when he played S1 SA, he said it was probably just in his imagination, but i don't think so. I think the game just runs slightly faster, enough that it is not noticeable when you play.
- I always thought my music seemed slightly faster than everyones else (Facility and Silo)
- My music on ntsc always sounds like it would be a slower run than everyone else (mostly comparing to clemens' runs), but if my game and music runs faster, it would seem like i am slower because music will be more ahead.
Now the debateable thing here is full speedruns that are timed in REAL TIME. I just recently set a world record on a full agent speedrun of 21:58 timed in real time. My runs would be about 22 seconds ahead of everyone if this is true, making it pretty much impossible for anyone to beat my time. I couldn't find much information about my converter, but here's something: http://www.consolepassion.co.uk/products/nintendo-64/hardware/nintendo-64-universal-converter-loose (http://www.consolepassion.co.uk/products/nintendo-64/hardware/nintendo-64-universal-converter-loose)
I doubt it's official N64 hardware, but i'm not completely sure. Anyway this seems quite like a special case, i guess it's up to Tyler to decide if this is legal for real time runs or not. I guess it is better to wait and see if we can make a comparison video of mine and illu's run to confirm it.
This could also have huge impact on SM64, Zelda runs etc that are timed in real time.
-
its the same as a passport. A lot of people use it.
Actually its not official nintendo hardware so imo, it should not be allowed to prevent anyone from getting any kind of advantage out of it
-
The converter doesn't have to be the cause necessarly. I'd like to through in some terms from electronics:
- Component tolerances
- Temperature drift
- Supply voltage tolerances
You'll probably lol at this now. But the error is "only" 10/(9*60+56) = 1.68%. This is a lot for full game speedruns ofc, but it ain't shit in consumer electronics I can guarantee. If one of you has a 5°C hotter room than the other one plus more dust inside his console plus inevitable production differences in the N64's clock oscillator circuit plus differences between your local suppliers of electric energy and home installations, then 1.68% error is peanuts for a usually secondary figure of a low-budget device.
EDIT:
Your converter could still be the reason ofc ;)
-
Good point, OHMSS. Seems highly unlikely that it would make such a big difference though.
Cara, i agree that it should not be allowed for real time runs if it's not official Nintendo hardware. I need to get a ntsc console asap.
-
Actually its not official nintendo hardware so imo, it should not be allowed to prevent anyone from getting any kind of advantage out of it
A Superpad also isn't official Nintendo hardware, but Runway 22 and Depot 40 are on the ranks.
-
It has always puzzled me how the superpad can be legal when it's not official nintendo hardware.
Anyway the converter can potentially make a huge difference for long games such as SM64 120 star runs, Zelda, DK64 etc. Imagine if some players used a converter to get faster runs. No one would notice unless there's some kind of ingame timer to make a comparison. Highly unlikely though, there doesn't seem to be many of those converters either.
-
Yea the superpad thing is as it is unfortunately because there's no way of knowing if someone used a superpad or not, I mean Bryan and DavidM were honest enough to tell us but someone else might not be so honest about it and just claim he used an official N64 controller.
-
Illu's Control 10 minute video: Marc and Illu - 10min control converter controversy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu55KsswGLg#)
-
I think your issue is a little more serious than the superpad..
-
The only solution is to ban all of Marc's times from the rank, as well as all 3rd party controller times while we're at it.
-
Well, if it the tool gives you a 22 second advantage like you stated in the topic post then I think it should not be allowed. Sure everyone may have a different N64 and it can affect the times you get while speedrunning but the seconds you lose or gain won't exceed 5 seconds ever. The differences will be very minute but this converter you have gives the times a whooping 22 second loss!
-
The converter doesn't have to be the cause necessarly. I'd like to through in some terms from electronics:
- Component tolerances
- Temperature drift
- Supply voltage tolerances
You'll probably lol at this now. But the error is "only" 10/(9*60+56) = 1.68%. This is a lot for full game speedruns ofc, but it ain't shit in consumer electronics I can guarantee. If one of you has a 5°C hotter room than the other one plus more dust inside his console plus inevitable production differences in the N64's clock oscillator circuit plus differences between your local suppliers of electric energy and home installations, then 1.68% error is peanuts for a usually secondary figure of a low-budget device.
THIS
We should ban the ranks. (I'm not serious, but it's pretty much the same fast conclusion every man and his dog here is making)
-
If what OHMSS says is true, and I believe it is, then I guess this has to be allowed.
Now it's time for all of us to start playing with our rooms set at 0 degrees Celsius for maximum speed.
-
haha start experimenting
-
inb4 someone breaks WR because of temperature change...
-
UPDATE!
I got myself a converter and I got the exact same result as Marc.
Now the thing is this doesn't seem to be the same converter as Marcs (this just says N64 passport on the converter) but so this means most likely that it is common that converters actually speed up the game a little (around 1 sec per minute)
This converter can also be used to play PAL on NTSC (hold start for menu when powering up console) but when playing PAL on NTSC the game actually slows down. The control test gave no difference in speed between PAL and NTSC, only when running PAL on NTSC with the converter, then PAL seemed to run 1 sec slower per minute than NTSC without converter.
So playing PAL on NTSC with converter lets you play in a slight more slowmotion, barely notisable though :P
But yea so real time runs are faster with converter definitely.