The Elite Forum
The Big Three Plus One => GoldenEye 007 => Topic started by: RWG on November 27, 2012, 09:46:12 pm
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Okay. If there is one thing everyone can agree on, it's that the Henning situation was handled HORRIBLY by the administrators and moderators of the-elite.net.
A poll was very effective the last time, so I hope it will be again. This poll is simple.
Right now, the powers that run the elite and make executive decisions on the rankings, how to handle situations like the one we've just seen, etc, are people who no longer are active, nor care about GoldenEye 007 and Perfect Dark competition. These people include Ngamer, QB, Thingy, Thiradell, Derek Clark, Come.
Do you agree that they should be removed from their positions of power within the-elite and replaced with those who are more active within the gaming competitions?
Very simple, yes or no. Let's see what the public have to decide about this.
Also, feel free to suggest new ideas for structures of power, executive decision making, etc.
My suggestion - a small council of about 5 people, active in the games, of varying personalities, who discuss and make decisions regarding these matters.
If this poll is deleted or moved, it is proof that there is a conspiracy within the elite to restrict our freedoms.
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lol topic. Third did a pretty neat job IMO, only a matter of time he didn't came faster but yeah we all have a life outside The-Elite. lol YE? He's probably the one who gived the most to The-Elite, you want to remove him? Who will replace him? You? You'll code when new things will be claim for the rankings?
Though I have to admit that Axel reaction to the recent issues (Trent/Henning) was pretty softy. I feel like he acted more in his interest in both situations. In Henning situation he was not clear in what happened and was pretty much floppy. Though he did an awesome job in the past, so I guess he just need to be more impartial in situations like that and take each case as if he wasn't involved (Get an Untied/Henning friendship etc.)
The other guys I don't really care.
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You don't really care?
You don't really care that Ngamer, QB, Come and Thingy had a secret discussion and executively decided what would happen with the Henning case?
You don't care that all the effort we put into the elite can effectively be quashed by a few men who literally do not give a single fuck about GE/PD?
Maybe YE can stay, sure. At least he knows what he's talking about in PD. But this is a general poll about the idea of making a new structure of power within the elite.
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lol I mean, I don't care if they stay or not. I saw 1 post from them in a year in these boards so yeah don't care if they get replaced.
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YE is the single most important person on this website. Removing him would be counter-productive. You've forgotten what he did to the GE/PD ranks last Christmas. He completely modernized the ranks, added videos on the rankings page, as well as many other features. The admins who are in power right now would decide who would become the new GE admins. They aren't going to step down, so unfortunately this whole topic will fall on deaf ears.
Tyler did a nice job handling this situation. The only criticism I have is that didn't do it in a timely fashion.
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Okay I've removed YE from that group. Forget he was ever in there. He is important, I agree. The focus is on the other people. Should they stay as the executive decision makers, or be replaced?
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Tyler and Axel have the right to stay. Having Ngamer, Come, and Thingy etc handle GE/PD related issues doesn't make sense. They don't really have sufficient knowledge of the game, or a keen eye to evaluate potentially fake videos. They should handle other issues related to the elite.
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^ Agreed. I like the way Tyler handled this
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I don't understand why the idea is to completely remove these people from the t-e.net? Everyone has contributed in one time or another and are important to the community. Over the years there have been other people who have stepped up to help out.
What doesn't make sense to me is that a small group got together and decided to ban someone. This whole problem came to be because there isn't any concrete updated rules and regulations. Those are made so things like these don't happen. I don't think it is fair that people who no longer have an interest in the community and a desire to be part of it more than one week a year should be the ones to fully decide the outcome of something like this.
We should get together as a large group and go over the options and write something up to protect us from when this happens again. That way everyone knows the outcome and it isn't an outrage. Coming from a small business owner this makes perfect sense and I don't understand why it hasn't been implemented and followed/updated previously.
No one should leave the elite. Should roles within be passed to new people? Probably. This doesn't seem like a huge problem to me.
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sorry goose, but i've never made any decision regarding any of the ranks and I haven't privately talked to scott or jon in weeks or months even
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Yes I do think some of administrators/moderators need to be replaced. Some lack knowledge of the game and like Goose mentioned previously, some of them do not give a fuck. I'm all for replacing them but I'm more concerned about WHO they are replaced with. Hopefully that decision can be done quickly and smoothly.
I also agree with Dan. To prevent any sort of problem like Henning's/to alleviate problems quicker, we need a solid proof policy.
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Ryan is really grinding my gears.
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Thingy probably couldn't even tell you who the main character in either Goldeneye or Perfect Dark is.
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You don't really care that Ngamer, QB, Come and Thingy had a secret discussion and executively decided what would happen with the Henning case?
I don't believe this is what happened and you shouldn't be mentioning people's names that likely had nothing to do with it.
edit--oh the irony of what goose is suggesting to form a committee. Those go over SOOO well around here...
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your pic is a photo of a wheat field
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Ryan is really grinding my gears.
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Jimbo has been trying to get more/complete mod access for a long time now. His persistence and enthusiasm have been admirable. IMO, Tyler, Axel (though his handling of events in the past months HAVE been soft-he's still stat-keeping and GE worthy), Jim and YE should be the bulk of our admins/decision makers (or decision proposers). I honestly have no idea how Scott, Steve or Jon have any affiliation with this proposal or topic in any way.
Though this poll is likely not going to be as effective as the last, there is no denying that people around here seem to desire some changes. Hopefully compromises can be made from all ends.
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Taken from Thingy's Speedrunwiki: Thingy, aka "TheFlash", is a member of the Mario Kart Players' Page Forum and The-Elite AIM CHAT
Thingy's attended two VA Meets and frequently visits chat to discuss the LATEST GAMING NEWS.
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I actually dont like the attitude of any of the current mods. Why? Because they dont seem to care what anyone else thinks, they dont ask the rest of us what we would like to have done, and they only react after multiple topics and persistent requests. Its pathetic.
I want people in charge who act immediately and actually take the initiative of asking the majority of
members what we would like to have done. Then instead of stupid poll topics made by teenage girls on their periods full of flame wars, we could have legitimate topics asking pertenant questions and containing decent discussions.
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As I said in the other thread...
All that is needed is quick decisive action from mods/admins. If you let the flames rage - they will spread.
I mean seriously - do you expect anything else?
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Oh silly Goose. The sooner you realize life isn't a democracy, the better. You talk about freedoms: you don't have any here, you have privileges. Don't like being ruled by the oligarchy? Go somewhere else, that's your freedom.
Good luck overthrowing the tyranny :)
Jon, Derek, YE, all have devoted tons of time in the past to this site. Doesn't Derek still pay for web hosting? The guys who made the thing have the right to do what they please. If they want to step down as moderators, that's fine, but no way you're voting them off the island.
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Though I have to admit that Axel reaction to the recent issues was pretty softy. I feel like he acted more in his interest in both situations. In Henning situation he was not clear in what happened and was pretty much floppy. Though he did an awesome job in the past, so I guess he just need to be more impartial in situations like that and take each case as if he wasn't involved.
It was hard for me to act clear when Henning himself was so unclear. What's unclear to me is that everyone still think Henning got some fake times lying there. Not to defend him or anything but he himself first actually removed all his PRs that were fake (Frig SA/00A) and THEN revealed which non PRs/dupes runs that also were fake. While it was dumb not to reveal all fakes at one time, suddenly everyone got this mentality that Henning lied (or rather kept the truth for himself) 15 times instead of just two. What's also surprising is that no one (?) has bothered in reviewing Hennings full set of PRs and they still want him banned from the rankings no matter what.
I'm surprised people think I'm partial. Nothing could be further from the truth. If Ryan himself had some faked times on the rankings I would NEVER want him completely removed, just the times he faked taken down. Nor if some top 20 player suddenly revealed 2-3 faked times. I try to keep the ranks as accurate as I can but I've ultimately failed this time.
I respect Tyler's decision but I would still just want Henning's times to appear frozen (Henning being temporarily banned is nevertheless effective and exemplary). Then IF someone found out he faked a couple of more times naturally they would be backrolled too.
Enjoy the inaccurate rankings everyone!
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Sorry to be so blunt, but those who dont think cheaters should be banned (at least for a period of time) should grow the fuck up. This mentality actually increases the likely-hood of having innacurate rankings in the future. It does this by encouraging people to fake videos and lie, as there is ABSOLUTELY NO RISK.
PLEASE GET IN THE REAL WORLD.
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Axel and I have the same exact viewpoints on the Henning situation, and that it's completely ridiculous to totally ban Henning's times. I am not the 16th best player in the world at the moment, I am clearly the 17th. The entire point system is screwed up now and I'm not sure what my actual point-total distance is from the next person ranked above me and it pisses me off.
Another possible solution would be to put an asterisk next to every single one of Henning's times and maybe even Italicize his name every time it appears, noting somewhere on the ranks or individual levels that he is suspended and under further review for CHEATING. This way you can get the "harsh" punishment and embarrassing exposure to the player, while maintaining the REAL rankings. Speaking to Infil, I believe Henning lost his privilege to not be noted as a cheater in the future. Goose is a genius lately, and I support his notion that perhaps he shouldn't serve a punishment that has been retro-actively applied because there was no real precedent until now.
Thank you Shawn, really, for your continued support of my vain action to take a huge bulk of admin privileges around here. At least someone appreciates my thankless work ethic :p
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Okay. If there is one thing everyone can agree on, it's that the Henning situation was handled HORRIBLY by the administrators and moderators of the-elite.net.
A poll was very effective the last time, so I hope it will be again. This poll is simple.
- The poll was even and the matter was dealt with by a guy who made his mind up seemingly entirely of his own opinion.
Right now, the powers that run the elite and make executive decisions on the rankings, how to handle situations like the one we've just seen, etc, are people who no longer are active, nor care about GoldenEye 007 and Perfect Dark competition. These people include Ngamer, QB, Thingy, Thiradell, Derek Clark, Come.
- The guys who put countless hours into building the site that is basically your life. You would literally have no life if it wasn't for this site.
Do you agree that they should be removed from their positions of power within the-elite and replaced with those who are more active within the gaming competitions?
- Yes remove them because they don't know how many tenths of a second you should wait before performing the trev shot. Forget all the past work, make Goose mod because he's in the top 7 (or top 6 now) and know everything. I can't wait until you pass Illu (unlikely) and you start calling it the "top 6 (or 5)". Hilarious amount of delusion you autistic cunt.
Very simple, yes or no. Let's see what the public have to decide about this.
Also, feel free to suggest new ideas for structures of power, executive decision making, etc.
- Make more threads appreciating the work the tech guys and admins have done and stop being a self centred prick would be a start.
My suggestion - a small council of about 5 people, active in the games, of varying personalities, who discuss and make decisions regarding these matters.
- Good idea... As long as you're nowhere near it.
If this poll is deleted or moved, it is proof that there is a conspiracy within the elite to restrict our freedoms.
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Let's cut the crap with the fake usernames. It's really immature. Someone ban Anti Goose and #1 Goose fan. It's a pathetic attempt to bring attention to himself.
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Let's cut the crap with the fake usernames. It's really immature. Someone ban Anti Goose and #1 Goose fan. It's a pathetic attempt to bring attention to himself.
You're a pathetic attempt.
And you look like your own reflection in a spoon.
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Since when have I had any power? Lol!
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Thingy probably couldn't even tell you who the main character in either Goldeneye or Perfect Dark is.
James Bond.
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Since when have I had any power? Lol!
You have the most power of anyone in the elite aside from Derek Clark or Ngamer. You're a forum admin and can edit anything on the main page. Ironically you're probably the person who cares least about the elite. You are able to step down from your post if you don't want it/don't know you have it.
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Several people have cheated before, and basically they're just eventually let back on the ranks. If we want to get more strict about this, it needs to happen now, and it needs to happen in the form of a severe punishment directed at Henning.
That's not fair. Henning cheated BECAUSE there was no solid policy in place to deal with cheaters. If he was facing a lifetime ban at the time, I bet he never would have cheated. So let's put in a punishment in place NOW. For FUTURE CHEATERS. Let's give a GRACE PERIOD for people to come out with any more fake times on the rankings. And then let's start enforcing a lifetime ban or whatever punishment for cheaters.
If you ban Henning's times forever, then you need to retroactively ban mine, Clemens' and Karl's because we've lied in the past.
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For the record, no one has reached out to me until very recently. I have always been in favor of the most active, loyal members being stewards (and likewise, mods) of the community. If that means giving up any mod powers I have, that's fine. This site has always really been in the hands of the community, the way I see it.
Important reminder:
- Me = the-elite.net
- Jon = speedrunwiki
While I'd like to be included in discussions about rankings and proof policy, ultimately I'm just a webmaster these days. I trust current players on most issues and it's worth mentioning that i had almost zero participation in the proof policies that are in place now. I'd like to be included in the discussion and think I've *earned* the right to participate in important decisions having been here for 12 god damn years, but at the same time I trust the community's collective wisdom. So let the record show I don't care about any mod roles on these boards nor do I care enough about proof policies *enough to disrupt* progress. I just want to be kept in the loop. Beyond that I know the active community is what drives the growth and improvement of what we share here.
Goose - next time just reach out to me personally. I'm pretty reasonable. Better yet, mostly apathetic.
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PS - I've paid well over $1000 and invested countless hours over the years developing and maintaining the-elite.net, so show some respect when making decrees about the "executive power" of the domain I own and the files I host.
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PM me a method of contact? I know you're apathetic and I don't really want to bother you with too much reading, but I'd definitely like to exchange an email or two with you.
You were added to the council and forum where we discussed the new proof policy and the Henning situation.
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it's (myname)@gmail.com
my first name is derek, you know the last.
i don't really frequent the boards aside from checking in on the WRs, so i'll usually miss things going on in general chat
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next time just reach out to me personally.
Really this is the best thing to do if anyone has an issue with something on the site. Making a topic, "Ngamer you suck because you didn't ________" isn't going to make anyone happy. A nice email to the right person(s) will probably get things done faster and with less tension. The reason these guys are in control of various parts is because they spent a lot of time and effort in the past to create almost everything you see on the site. Just going "ok you are distanced now so gtfo" is not a good solution. Keep in mind that you'll have to find someone new to manage the behind-the-scenes aspects if you really want to go through with something like this.
These are some of the people you could go to if you have technical questions/issues:
Ngamer: If the website title says speedrunwiki.com or thengamer.com, he's probably your first resource. He runs the Summer Contest and some other utilities for you all on thengamer.com and is the key figure in elite.speedrunwiki.com (the forums), upload.speedrunwiki.com (the image uploading site), and speedrunwiki.com (the Wiki site). In some of those sections he has delegated responsibility to others but in general he should be able to help you out. As far as I know he is also in charge of selecting forum moderators for the different boards we have here.
Image Upload Site: Ng assigned Goose to moderate the image upload site so if you find nasty stuff that doesn't belong, let him know. I'm not sure if anyone actually does though...
First Vote Rankings: Mgay made these.
Speed Run Wiki: Ng has assigned a few people special access here. If you have an urgent problem you might try to contact Shep or DK since they seem to be around fairly often.
Forum: I transferred the forum from Yuku to this SMF board (yuck, wish it didn't suck so bad). If you have a technical suggestion/problem with the forums, shoot me a message. If you have an awesome new idea and set it up, I'll probably add it right away and wait to see if someone complains. If you have an awesome idea but no clue how to put it into action, I'll probably consider it and might do it if I feel like it. I basically just do whatever Ngamer tells me and try to avoid making moderation decisions without first consulting with someone who's more 'in' on things (Ng, Third, etc). The two people who have admin access from the user perspective are Come and Ngamer. If someone wants to work with me in building a new custom forum from scratch, let me know. We can integrate it with the rest of the site better.
the-elite.net: If you have a suggestion for the-elite.net, Clark's your man! He's not always going to be watching every topic but if you have something important, let him know and he'll probably give it some thought. This could be stuff about the main page, the blog, etc. If it's something really minor you would want to contact the author of the blog post in question (often Jimbo) or for small changes or broken links, Jimbo is probably able to take care of it if he's around.
Rankings: A new idea for the rankings? Security issue? Shoot a message over to YE. He put the rankings together and knows them inside and out. If you can dream it, he'll be able to put it together. Better yet, check out the source for the rankings pages on his GitHub page and build the new feature yourself to give it a test drive.
Keep in mind these are just the contact people for when you go "Wow, I have a great new idea that we should implement on ______ site," or "Oh my goodness there is a huge security hole here that we need to take care of." If you are just worried someone posted fake times or made inappropriate comments on the forum, let the appropriate moderator deal with the issue.
For the 10 of you who voted Yes in the poll, you might want to explain which of the above people you feel should be removed from their position and why. I'm guessing that if the majority of the community wanted one of those guys out, they would gladly comply. Believe it or not, it actually takes time and effort to manage these services even when not actively making new stuff. The problem is, if you want someone gone you have to find someone else capable of filling the gap they leave behind.
Personally, if everyone wanted me to not administer the forums anymore I'd say that's fine. Just keep in mind I certainly wouldn't respond favorably if someone came asking for a new fun feature or provide support for things I've already made. If you want to go down that road you better have a good replacement candidate in mind first. All I've done was just my way to help the place out. It's a little off-putting to see people continually bashing me for providing a free service.
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^ this is good. review closely and remember that we just want constructive dialogue to get to a point where everyone is happy. except jimbo.
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Since content managers are reading this topic, there's one thing I've noticed a few times: there should be a link to the the-elite.net homepage and/or the forum homepage from the rankings page. It'd be great to have the appropriate links from the forums to the home page/rankings as well.
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It'd be great to have the appropriate links from the forums to the home page/rankings as well.
Done. I'd noticed this was missing and it bugged me but since no one else mentioned it until now I figured it wasn't needed!
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Great stuff ^ :)
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Some ranks mod, probably Axel Z, is beyond awesome. I wanted to link my vids on the ranks like 2 minutes after the youtube upload and it was already done :-*
Flash, that was a good post and it makes me feel bad for falling for the hate speeches and voting yes before reading the whole topic.
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Thanks!