The Elite Forum
The Big Three Plus One => GoldenEye 007 => Topic started by: Wyst3r on December 04, 2012, 05:47:07 pm
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After seeing Marc on stream yesterday attempting to get back through the first door that Nat after getting the mines, hoping for something out of the ordinary to happen, I decided to do some investigations myself and find out what really happens if you do things you aren't supposed to do on Control. Some might already know these things but probably not all so i figured it might be worth posting anyway.
By using emulator and some memory hacking i can force any door open, including the brown doors in the beginning. So first of all, what happens if you do the thing Marc tested? Absolutely nothing. Natalya is still there doing her thing, nothing has changed. (as expected)
But what happens if you force open the door to the main control room before Natalya has opened the first brown door? Well, if you stand in the spot where she says "I'm coming", she'll do that and completely skip opening the first door. This might sound perfect for poeple looking for big timesavers but there's a catch, all the doors leading to the end will remain locked, even after the alarm goes off. Why you wonder? It turns out that these doors have some wierd dependencies. First of all, Natalya MUST open the first brown door. Otherwise they'll never unlock no matter what you do. So you can't skip her first messages, you'll have to wait until she's done opening the first door before heading to the main control room.
The other dependency is kind of strange. Ever noticed these dark lines on the floor?:
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi795.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy235%2FWyster%2FDarklines.png&hash=686b1bd6043e2eb208eb38b7ee5a35504f44c508)
You might've noticed that crossing that first line is what triggers the first brown door to close and lock after Natalya has opened it. But entering the area enclosed by these 2 lines appareantly has another purpose. It's a part of the unlocking-conditions for the doors leading to the end. So if you let Natalya open the first door, then force the door to main control room open and start the protection part, you still need to go back to this area and cross one of the lines, in order to finish the level.
Apart from these things, there were no other wierdnesses that i could find when doing things out-of-order.
Anyway, i hope this wasn't an entirely uninterresting read and that it can be of some use for those trying to find level-breaking glitches.
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I love these threads Henrik, thanks for the info.
I think (not 100% sure since I haven't done this by forcing the Nat door open) you actually CAN get some of the brow doors open... the one to the small room with the last mf... if you throw a mine at that door during the protect, you kill the guard standing near the door. The OTHER guard will open that door to come find you. I don't know if this still works if you don't enter the black lines area, but it makes sense that it would (since guards opening the doors is unrelated to Nat's alarm actions doing it.)
I think with enough enemy manipulation, you could get many of the brown doors open without nat's access.
The small brown room strat is something I was thinking about doing the MFs during/before the protect. If you just run into the drone room and do that mf when we'd normally be shooting out the drones, THEN do mine to brown door, then another mine/grenade into that room to blow that mf, you'd have all the mfs done before Nat has finished Obj B.
This could be useful if we ever figure out how to make Nat complete Obj A instantly because we'd have a much shorter route (going through the 2nd BA locker room) to the lift.
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I agree with Goose. This is indeed very interesting and its pretty cool to see/know how the game is programmed. Pretty insane that such small things like a black line tells the game what to do etc.
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Cool topic Henrik!
I actually think I've run into the first thing you mentioned before (dependencies on the first Natalya door open), from screwing around on the level with the Walk Through Doors GS code on. Since I had WTD on it didn't end up holding me up obviously, but I do distinctly remember wondering why a certain door wasn't unlocked. I definitely didn't know the part about the lines on the ground though, that's neat.
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from screwing around on the level with the Walk Through Doors GS code on.
I figured someone had done this ^^
The OTHER guard will open that door to come find you. I don't know if this still works if you don't enter the black lines area, but it makes sense that it would (since guards opening the doors is unrelated to Nat's alarm actions doing it.)
Actually i don't think that would work (at least not without entering the lines area). From what i've observed with the guards, they can't open the locked doors until they get unlocked. Before that, they will get stuck and just warp it when you look away. I noticed this happening with the blue door leading to the second BA (A spawning black-hat guard wasn't able to come out lol). I've also tested it on many other occasions so i'm fairly certain about this.
Pretty insane that such small things like a black line tells the game what to do etc.
Well the lines don't really do anything, that would be ridiculous programming :p The lines might just be coincidence but they do show exactly where the area that has the trigger on it begins and ends. I'm not exactly sure why they were put there, especially since they look incredibly out of place.
you'd have all the mfs done before Nat has finished Obj B.
You can do this with the mine-through-wall trick during protection by throwing a mine through the brown door. You can stand within the protection area so no time would be lost. (though obviously this is useless without that instant A thing)
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The OTHER guard will open that door to come find you. I don't know if this still works if you don't enter the black lines area, but it makes sense that it would (since guards opening the doors is unrelated to Nat's alarm actions doing it.)
Actually i don't think that would work (at least not without entering the lines area). From what i've observed with the guards, they can't open the locked doors until they get unlocked. Before that, they will get stuck and just warp it when you look away. I noticed this happening with the blue door leading to the second BA (A spawning black-hat guard wasn't able to come out lol). I've also tested it on many other occasions so i'm fairly certain about this.
Yeah I was just testing this and this is exactly what happens on both the doors downstairs leading towards the exit area. Wow.
So essentially we now know that you NEED to pass through that area and you NEED to have Nat set off the alarm in order to finish the level.
(unless there's an insane glitch where she completes B, gets mad at you and you both finish in the first lift? Lol.)
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Funny How GE is actually a well built game, then Rare goes and makes broken monsters like DK64 lol.
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So I have a question, and I'm using this topic to get the attention of the smart players :)
Does anyone have an explanation for the fact that "1st half" and "2nd half" guards on Dam refuse to cross the line which seems to be defined by the area before the locked gate? Only the charging animation will force the guards through the gate, and they will NOT come back after you if you go onto the other side.
Dam is probably in it's own league for programmer detail, so this is an exclusive thing I imagine. There's clearly an invisible wall the guards refuse to cross unless they do a charging motion...
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ATTN Henrik.
Marc and I have been testing some Control stuff tonight. Is there any way to get the SECOND brown door open for Nat? It's locked no matter what you do. Nat opens it when you meet her for the 2nd time. It seems like guards can sometimes open it during or after the protect, but you can't open it at all. Basically Nat on her way to completing A runs through Brown Door 1, Brown Door 2 and Lift. Our question is, is there any way to get Brown Door 2 open? It does seem that guards can randomly open it sometimes timed properly for her exit, which might be the explanation for 16 second exits.
Basically, we discussed the possibility of opening all Brown Door 1, Brown Door 2, and the Lift, and the running from there straight to the exit (through the locker room) [you would have to do the normal last 2 mfs during or before the protect.] It doesn't seem like the lift stays open long enough for her to reach it (it stays open for 17.5 seconds) but that *might* be enough time. Of course, you need the Brown Door 2 open in order to even get to the lift, and that in itself might save a second on her exit.
If all this comes together, we might be able to get 13 second exits or something.
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I checked and Natalya warps both Brown Door 2 and the Lift door. (She always warps the brown door during the "I'm coming" message when you look away, but if your further away, it won't matter which direction you look, she'll always warp). So unless you're close and looking at her, Brown Door 2 and Lift door isn't a problem. However, she never warps Brown Door 1, so it's a good thing we always open it for her.
So basicly, she's already optimal with current strat ^^
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Lol interesting, all that thought and analysis from Marc and I for nothing. It was a brilliant idea if it worked hehe.
We will break this level yet.