The Elite Forum
The Big Three Plus One => GoldenEye 007 => Topic started by: AZ on December 28, 2013, 06:53:27 pm
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The vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDrH_mAH67E
I have a problem with this video. I talked to a couple of eliters earlier today regarding its inconsistency. Some agreed with me that the ending of the video looks sketchy, some think I'm just being paranoid.
Can someone please explain why the end screen first appears after like 4-5 sec of blackness after the last cinema instead of the usual 2 seconds?
In other words, the end screen should reasonably pop up at 0:41 but it doesn't pop up until 0:43.
There's also a weird occurrence in that Bond's right arm/hand already being in his pocket or close to his pocket (putting the gun away) as the ending cinema starts. When comparing to other Depot videos, the hand movement starts higher up on Bond's body than it does in Monteith's 25 (this could very well be due to framerate/brightness issues or whatever, but that doesn't explain the fact that it's black for 4 seconds until end screen appears).
Also, it's in digcam for some reason. Monteith captured his latest runs.
Thanks.
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The font at the end looks different to me? The delay between finishing the level and seeing the endscreen reminded me of TASes, like this was on emulator. I don't think I've ever had a delay like that on console (but what do I know)
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It is strange. I'd be comfortable disallowing it.
Would there really be that big of an issue with completely disallowing webcam videos?
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lol yeah this font looks super sketchy. Isn't that the emulator font?
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It is strange. I'd be comfortable disallowing it.
Would there really be that big of an issue with completely disallowing webcam videos?
The current proof policy clearly states that all WRs, set as of January 1, 2013, must be in captured quality.
The delay is far too long.
The way the cursor moves on the endscreen is emulated. On console it is not as crisp. If you have an eye for this you can clearly see the endscreen is displaying in 60 frames per second, as opposed to 20-30 on console.
The run isn't 25 anyways since he got the late boost, which AFAIK isn't a good enough quality boost to get 25. No one has gotten 25 with the late boost around the corner.
Conclusion: Monteith got a run with a boost, it was 26, he wanted the WR so spliced on an emulated 25 endscreen. This seems really dumb given that we now have a no tolerance policy and this means his times will be removed entirely.
I never watched this run before just now seeing as its an irrel 25, but it's clearly fake. I have 100% accuracy when it comes to this.
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Conclusion: Monteith got a run with a boost, it was 26, he wanted the WR so spliced on an emulated 25 endscreen. This seems really dumb given that we now have a no tolerance policy and this means his times will be removed entirely.
Looks like Ace will pick up his 2nd Depot untied after another player has had his times removed. :nesquik:
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I definitely agree with Goose about the cursor movement. It looks emulated to me.
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Good call with the end screen, I never paid any attention to its font/cursor. I was busy timing the delay before the actual end screen appeared.
I was about to bring up the boost but figured the ending of the video was sufficient enough in singling out the run as sketchy.
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Yeah guys it is an emulated run, congrats on figuring it out I'm surprised it took you guys this long. :v I made this run a few weeks ago when i was using a emulator to test some strats, i became curious whether an emulated run could be passed off as legit without anybody noticing because AFAIK it has never been done before. After I made the run i planned on posting a few days later telling everyone it was fake and see how the community would react. Although after a few days I decided to leave it on a little longer to see if it would make it through the proof call. I know what i did was kinda fucked up but i was just curious and wanted to see if it could be done. I knew someone would find out, I know stuff like this cant stay up after the whole henning situation.
This seems really dumb given that we now have a no tolerance policy and this means his times will be removed entirely.
Since when is this a rule? I thought henning was banned because he was caught multiple times and continued to lie, according to the proof policy, I'm supposed to get a 3 month ban. Whats bellow is copy and pasted directly from the proof policy topic at the top of the ranks. If I new something like this would be a permanent ban I would not of ever thought about doing something like this.
3) Concerning faked videos, lying about personal records, and punishments for the like.
i) Any person caught faking videos or lying about personal records with the intention of having a ranked record will have those records removed. As punishment, they will be shamed and exiled by being banned from the forums for 3 months. For that same 3 month period, their timespage will be frozen from competition and they will be unable to update any new times until after that 3 month period has expired. The subsequent natural skepticism and careful analysis of any of their future records will also serve as punishment.
ii) Anyone caught faking videos a second time will have their timespage backrolled to all legitimate times, their timespage frozen, and they will be permanently banned from GoldenEye 007 and Perfect Dark speedrunning competition. They will still be able to play the game, upload videos on their personal Youtube channels, etc, but they will no longer be a part of the elite and will be denied re-entry. Any improvement in their personal records will not be reflected on the-elite.net rankings. Their times are frozen permanently the moment they are caught faking a second time.
iii) Faking videos for obvious troll purposes, April Fool’s pranks, hilarious jokes, etc, with no intention of having the faked run on the world rankings, are exempt to this section. It is advised to clear these pranks with a moderator to avoid any conflict.
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Actually the proof policy states that if you're caught cheating once then you have your times page frozen for 3 months and shamed from the boards for 3 months.
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Sounds to me like you were hoping not to get caught. Now you have and you're BSing saying it was just a fuck around. Idk... Just what it seems like to me.
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Would there really be that big of an issue with completely disallowing webcam videos?
The current proof policy clearly states that all WRs, set as of January 1, 2013, must be in captured quality.
Wait a second, I'm not sure if I'm minunderstanding this... Does this mean that I can't post any WRs till I buy a capture card? :(... Does that rule apply to PD aswell?
(I know I'm not a great skilled speedrunner, but even players like me are able to get WRs, so I'll have to buy a capture card before going for one, it seems...)
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Sounds to me like you were hoping not to get caught. Now you have and you're BSing saying it was just a fuck around. Idk... Just what it seems like to me.
I think he's telling the truth, Phazonn. The splice is so bad, like -3/10.
The problem is that the Elite doesn't watch vids very often. This especially applies to top players who don't even watch vids of the crazy untieds and these top players have a better eye for a splice than anyone else I believe.
This should have been found weeks ago.
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Congrats man, you fooled us for a week. For the moment I've frozen your timespage, it's likely this issue will go to the Council and we'll figure out exactly what to do. I don't think permanent removal is the only way to go, but we obviously can't allow things like this to happen on a regular basis. Your explanation of why you did it basically just tells me that I can't trust you anymore.
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I don't think a 3 month frozen times page is enough. That means anyone could just keep playing for 3 months, and then unwhoard the times once their page is unfrozen.
I think a good idea is that any level where a fake video is discovered will permanantly go to N/A. So for David his depot times would go to N/A. This means that they can keep playing but just not that level. It stops them from getting a very high rank, and when new people ask why this player has one level that is N/A the only answer will be "because they faked vids".
Of course this couldn't be implemented right now because the proof policy isn't update. But for future circumstances.
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This just shows that no one watches GE runs anymore.
I watched this vid earlier today for the first time and was like wth
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I think he's telling the truth. The splice is so bad, like -3/10.
The problem is that the Elite doesn't watch vids very often. This especially applies to top players who don't even watch vids of the crazy untieds and these top players have a better eye for a splice than anyone else I believe.
This should have been found weeks ago.
Exactly, anyone whos decent at the game can tell it's clearly fake if you pay attention and watch closely. I wanted to see how close people (expecially the proof mods) examine vids, with Third in charge of GE's proof calls now I thinks its very possible he wouldn't have noticed it if he just watched it once really quick, after all hes not exactly a great player. I bet if axel didn't noticed it would have made it past the proof call which would happen in a few days. The fact that it was up for 8 days without a single eliter noticing is pretty bad imo, I expected more people to actually pay attention and watch WR vids closely. Sorry for what I did but I think in a way it's good and should be used as a wake up call to everyone to examine vids more closely.
Congrats man, you fooled us for a week. For the moment I've frozen your timespage, it's likely this issue will go to the Council and we'll figure out exactly what to do. I don't think permanent removal is the only way to go, but we obviously can't allow things like this to happen on a regular basis. Your explanation of why you did it basically just tells me that I can't trust you anymore.
Yeah I actually just went to delete it and saw my times page was frozen, so go ahead and delete it for me. Do what you guys have to do, but all my other times are legit, examine all of them all you want. A permanent ban is not right imo and goes against your current proof policy, if it said i would be permanently banned i would have never ever thought of trying this. However, I don't think its a bad idea to make it that for the future as that would stop anyone every thinking about making a fake vid.
This just shows that no one watches GE runs anymore.
Seriously this is a major problem, if people payed attention this would have been found in a couple hours at most rather than over a week later.
Once again sorry about what i did, I hope my punishment is not to severe from this, but I accept whatever the community decides. However, I hope everyone uses this as a wake up call to look at vids more closely for now on.
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Hang the cheaters, hang them high!
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To anyone who's wondering, I watch all high-point-time vids around the end of the month for proof calls, unless I specifically want to see the vid sooner. Whether or not I would've caught this, I don't know for sure, but I've been looking at vids more closely lately, and the delay is pretty blatant.
"However, I don't think its a bad idea to make it that for the future as that would stop anyone every thinking about making a fake vid."
Pleeeeeease don't tell us how to do our job. We hoped banning Henning would stop people from faking vids, guess we were wrong.
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It's a good thing Monteith took the initiative to test our proof mods :kappa:
Just get rid of this bum. Maybe then people will start taking this seriously.
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I think he's telling the truth, Phazonn. The splice is so bad, like -3/10.
Guess what though. That's what we all thought about Henning. We thought he was telling the truth. Who knows how long this would stay up the ranks had someone not discovered the run being fake? 1 year? 2 years? I just lost all my trust for another top player which is sad indeed.
Also, in some aspect, Henning's splices were very bad as well albeit maybe not as obvious as this delaying end screen.
This should have been found weeks ago.
It's "only" been 8 days since Monteith posted 25.
To be perfectly fair and consistent, Monteith deserves a permanent ban, just like Henning. I don't think all his times are fake, just as I know all of Henning's aren't. But it's better being sure none of his times are ranked than a few or many that might be fake.
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The proof policy stated that if you get caught once you get a 3 month frozen page. It's our fault (the people that made the policy) that this is happening. What about the idea that I proposed of puting the times to N/A?
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I don't buy it. I mean I doubt anyone agrees with me, but this whole "I did it as a wake-up call to the community" shit is transparent as fuck to me.
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I don't buy it. I mean I doubt anyone agrees with me, but this whole "I did it as a wake-up call to the community" shit is transparent as fuck to me.
I might also add, if Henning was still ranked (with just LIVE PRs or with a complete set of times), I wouldn't support a permanent ban.
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I think he's telling the truth, Phazonn. The splice is so bad, like -3/10.
Guess what though. That's what we all thought about Henning. We thought he was telling the truth. Who knows how long this would stay up the ranks had someone not discovered the run being fake? 1 year? 2 years? I just lost all my trust for another top player which is sad indeed.
Also, in some aspect, Henning's splices were very bad as well albeit maybe not as obvious as this delaying end screen.
Yeah you're right, it's just that this seems way too bad to be true.
This should have been found weeks ago.
It's "only" been 8 days since Monteith posted 25.
To be perfectly fair and consistent, Monteith deserves a permanent ban, just like Henning. I don't think all his times are fake, just as I know all of Henning's aren't. But it's better being sure none of his times are ranked than a few or many that might be fake.
Damn, thought it was posted awhile back. Either way, it should have been found within a day or two of the video's upload. I've never really liked the proof policy and I have already voiced my opinion regarding it. I'll always support a 0 tolerance proof policy. It's so easy to fake videos in Goldeneye these days. Strict rules should be established.
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There are some loopholes and contradictory things in the policy.
What about the idea that I proposed of puting the times to N/A?
This is a good idea. If Monteith for some reason isn't perma banned (which he should be), this is a good option. Mods can "time lock" certain times for certain players.
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This is extremely disappointing. Regardless of whether or not Monteith blatantly faked this video, he'll never be trusted again.
He deserves to be punished severely. The Elite shouldn't tolerate people toying with the rankings. A permanent ban is in order.
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This is extremely disappointing. Regardless of whether or not Monteith blatantly faked this video, he'll never be trusted again.
He deserves to be punished severely. The Elite shouldn't tolerate people toying with the rankings. A permanent ban is in order.
Hi Larkin, how is the top 30?
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Yeah you're right, it's just that this seems way too bad to be true.
I disagree. Monteith hasn't proven a PR since August 2012. He did not provide proof of either Egypt 48, Aztec 158 and Frigate 25, his latest claimed PRs. Although they weren't 80+ pointers, I was still disappointed not even seeing videos of them, especially Frigate 25. My guess is that he just posted these times to remain in the top 25 or whatever. This recent Depot issue tops it all though.
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Yeah you're right, it's just that this seems way too bad to be true.
I disagree. Monteith hasn't proven a PR since August 2012. He did not provide proof of either Egypt 48, Aztec 158 and Frigate 25, his latest claimed PRs. Although they weren't 80+ pointers, I was still disappointed not even seeing videos of them, especially Frigate 25. My guess is that he just posted these times to remain in the top 25 or whatever. This recent Depot issue tops it all though.
Monteith's splice is just so bad. I noticed the emulated endscreen right away. This is something fairly new players can spot very quickly. I even showed my brother who hardly plays Goldeneye and he noticed that the endscreen is weird. I honestly can't believe Monteith was very serious with this splice. Obviously, there was a chance that even after proof call, he would not admit to it being faked but who knows.
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I could accept it, if he came forward after a couple days and said that he had cheated to "test the mods" or whatever, but how convenient is it that he admits it AFTER being caught? Being bad at cheating is still cheating. Cheating "for a cause" is still cheating. He cheated. End of story as far as I'm concerned.
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Hey guys I would like to admit my archives 54s achieved in 2007 were both done on emulator. I was going to see if anyone would notice and do a test for the proof mods, but I completely forgot. Please take them off the ranks, thanks
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Mirror, some of Henning's splices/fake runs were also really really bad. For instance, Control SA 4:11 (?) with no obj C. I discovered that obj C never showed up on the screen yet the run completed. Unfortunately, pretty much the entire GE elite, including myself and Tyler (the proof callers), Clemens, other top players, hell even Wouter, thought that the run was a glitch rather than a fake run. So much did we lay our trust in Henning at that time. In retrospect, we were all naive. Later, Goose discovered Frigate fake runs by Henning that in retrospect are hilariously badly spliced although Goose deserves credits for watching the runs from a different perspective than anyone did before him (i.e. phantom cinemas).
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Henning's frigate cinema thing was far less conspicuous than what Monteith did here. Control C fail missing might be just as bad but this all goes down to opinion.
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So you're saying that Henning, who has attended many meets and even got some of his PRs LIVE in front of the Swedish elite, not to mention that he has over 1000 videos (videos that hardly no one analyzed), deserves to be perma banned, but not Monteith who, as far as I know, never met any eliter?
I don't follow you here.
It shouldn't matter at all how they faked the videos. A fake is a fake.
also:
- Goose was never caught, he first admitted he faked some runs (still ranked!)
- Henning was caught and later admitted he faked some runs (banned!)
- Monteith was caught and should be banned!
It's extremely unfair and very inconsistent towards Henning/the rankings if Henning goes but Monteith stays.
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I believe that all of Monteith's other times are legit (edit: well.. except maybe the recent ones w/o vids). Him and I used to talk on the phone a lot, sometimes when were speedrunning. He seemed genuine.
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Henning wasn't banned because he faked videos once. He was given multiple chances to come clean and didn't. He was found out three seperate times I think? That's a bit different than Dave getting caught once. So the circumstances are not the same.
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So you're saying that Henning, who has attended many meets and even got some of his PRs LIVE in front of the Swedish elite, not to mention that he has over 1000 videos (videos that hardly no one analyzed), deserves to be perma banned, but not Monteith who, as far as I know, never met any eliter?
I don't follow you here.
It shouldn't matter at all how they faked the videos. A fake is a fake.
also:
- Goose was never caught, he first admitted he faked some runs (still ranked!)
- Henning was caught and later admitted he faked some runs (banned!)
- Monteith was caught and should be banned!
It's extremely unfair and very inconsistent towards Henning/the rankings if Henning goes but Monteith stays.
lol I'm 100% towards Monteith getting permabanned. I'm saying Monteith's fake run was very poorly done and that there was a chance David here was just joking around. Obviously this should not be taken lightly whether or not it was not serious. Hopefully you understand now.
lol
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"I believe that all of Henning's other times are legit (edit: well... except maybe his Egypt's). Him and I used to talk on AIM a lot, sometimes when were speedrunning. He semmed genuine."
^^ :kappa:
there are only two options:
either Henning's LIVE PRs get re-instated and all Monteith's receive proper analyzing.
or Montieth gets perma-banned, like Henning.
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either Henning's LIVE PRs get re-instated and all Monteith's receive proper analyzing.
or Montieth gets perma-banned, like Henning.
As I literally pointed 2 posts before, the situations are different. Henning was never banned for his first offense. In fact he wasn't banned on his SECOND offense. He was banned on the 3rd instance. So please do not talk like both of these cases are identical.
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[Henning] He was given multiple chances to come clean and didn't.
A prominent difference between the two situations.
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there are only two options:
either Henning's LIVE PRs get re-instated and all Monteith's receive proper analyzing.
or Montieth gets perma-banned, like Henning.
Obviously two very different situations. The fact that you and Henning jerked each other off doesn't put him on the same level as Monteith.
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None of us can never be sure for how long Monteith would have the 25 up.
Yeah, I'm aware that Henning kept the truth to himself several times.
However, it's utterly absurd if ALL Monteith's PRs stay but NONE of Henning's.
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The fact that you and Henning jerked each other off doesn't put him on the same level as Monteith.
:nesquik:
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However, it's utterly absurd if ALL Monteith's PRs stay but NONE of Henning's.
No it wouldn't be. If we are to treat these two cases the same then Dave's time would just be backrolled. This is what happened the first time Henning's vids were found out. We didn't remove any of his times.
I agree that this way of dealing with fake videos isn't the best and I think we should update the proof policy.
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...but Henning's times were not only backrolled, but they were all removed from the ranks, analyzed and after that they were put back up.
and what about the grace period of fake times?
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Hey guys I would like to admit my archives 54s achieved in 2007 were both done on emulator. I was going to see if anyone would notice and do a test for the proof mods, but I completely forgot. Please take them off the ranks, thanks
Nice to know Clemens' is coming clean.
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Hey guys I would like to admit my archives 54s achieved in 2007 were both done on emulator. I was going to see if anyone would notice and do a test for the proof mods, but I completely forgot. Please take them off the ranks, thanks
Nice to know Clemens' is coming clean.
:kappa: :kappa: :kappa:
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BTW I don't really see why fake vids need to be picked up in 2 seconds after the are posted. 8 days is fine really. As long as it's not never :)
p.s K.. for President.
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I love the drama, but the problem is that everyone will now again spend weeks trying to explain the situation from a non-biased point of view to Henning's partner (Axel).
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It will simply be brought up to the council and they will give Monteith a 3 month ban.
Hopefully a 2014-version of the proof policy can be made.
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I'm pretty sure the "3 month timespage freeze" is an old rendition of the proof policy. It was reworked when Henning was finally banned in July 2013. The edition referenced in this thread is from January 2013. I will look in the council to find the latest version of the proof policy.
Unfortunately Monteith needs to be fully removed. If he wanted to test the mods, he should have been wise and done it under an alias like Justin Bieber Ramirez.
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if the stickied proof policy is outdated lol this community/"elite council" it says 3 months in there (and that all legitimate times stay on the ranks no matter what which isn't true either)
great work axel btw
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Bear in mind Monteith also lied about what controller he used when he got depot sa 40 ( back when superpad was considered non legit and he claimed to use a regular n64 controller). So this isnt the first time, even if I was the one who told him to use superpad and get an easy untied.
Either way this was unnecessary drama and even if he really was trying to make a point or do it for some sort of disgusting form of fun, this sort of behavior shouldnt be tolerated. He needs to be banned imo.
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Great work on sniffing this out Axel.
Its a tragedy though :(
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Hang the cheaters, hang them high!
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8 days to discover this is a clear improvement, it took ages before Henning was discovered
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Hm... If the rules say a 3 months ban, then it should be a 3 months ban. Maybe the rules have to be changed, but they aren't yet, right? They are the current ones, so we should fulfil them. It is unfair if he is not punished, but it's also unfair if he is punished in a more strict way than others imo...
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I do believe that Monteith planned on revealing the fake after the proof call.
I do believe that Monteith didn't know the current proof policy states that all fakes will result in a permaban.
I do believe that what Henning did was far more severe than this.
I am just at a loss as to what punishment is fit for Monteith here. Nothing has been discussed in the council yet. A thread will probably be made within the next 12-24 hours. It isn't necessarily unfair to Henning if Monteith doesn't get permabanned, especially when you compare 10+ fake WRs for 2+ years vs 1 fake WR for 8 days; but it definitely *is* unfair to everyone in the community because now we have to waste our time watching all 60 of Monteith's videos for fakes... that is, if we decide not to permaban him.
I'm unsure what punishment aside from a permaban even seems effective. Frozen timespage for months doesn't matter since you can still PR and it just makes the rankings inaccurate if you're doing so, which is unfair to those competing. For instance, if Luke and I were to continue battling for 5th, but we'd know "yeah when Monteith's page gets unfrozen these times will be worth different points" then that ruins a lot and disrespects the players involved. Permanent removal of the faked level entirely actually seems decent, since it's penalizing enough, without disrespecting the other players.
We will see what discussions in the council bring. I can't wait to hear what YE, Youse, Ngamer, Thingy and Infil have to say on the matter :)
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Well, I have another idea, but it might seem absurd to people or simple not reliable: what if his Depot is backrolled to 26 and in the rankings there is spezified that he tried to fake once? That would make the ranks keep ~accurate and people will be concerned that he faked... Dunno, I can't think more now... I simply think a permaban is excessive in this case.
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All former cheaters should never be allowed to get any offstream PRs/WRs approved anyways.
I think this is the direction everyone should strive towards though.
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If you're following the proof policy, get rid of Ext PA 1:29 please. :kappa:
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We allow cheaters to hang around the boards.
We wonder why people leave the boards.
Happy New Year, Elite. :)
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new proof policy regarding cheaters: we wait for god to punish them :)
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This sort of drama is why I dont really enjoy coming to these boards all that much , why many people have retired, and semi-why I have retired from GE speedrunning. What the fuck is the point of making a fake vid just to get some sort of reaction? We've already experienced enough cheaters around here and they have gotten caught. Why monteith put as much time into this run as he did is baffling, and I have no pity for banning him from the ranks forever. He should be ashamed of himself and so should everyone else who has ever cheated.
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This sort of drama is why I dont really enjoy coming to these boards all that much , why many people have retired, and semi-why I have retired from GE speedrunning. What the fuck is the point of making a fake vid just to get some sort of reaction? We've already experienced enough cheaters around here and they have gotten caught. Why monteith put as much time into this run as he did is baffling, and I have no pity for banning him from the ranks forever. He should be ashamed of himself and so should everyone else who has ever cheated.
Well said, David
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Thanks, luckwood.
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This is the most recent rendition of the proof policy, when it comes to faked videos;
3) Concerning faked videos, lying about personal records, and punishments for the like.
i) Any person caught faking videos or lying about personal records will be subject to discipline as outlined in the section 3 subsections ii and iii.
ii) MINIMUM: Fake times are removed, all personal records without videos removed, and full analysis to be done on all claimed legitimate personal record videos. Any future records may only go on the rankings if they are streamed live with capture card and webcam, with in game sound and microphone audio fully audible. Any records gotten without these requirements will in no case be accepted on the rankings. No exceptions, no matter the record.
iii) MAXIMUM: All records are removed from the both the GoldenEye 007 and Perfect Dark rankings. The perpetrator is permanently banned from the-elite world rankings with no way to ever be reinstated.
iv) The decision on the penalty dealt will be determined by the elite council and will depend on severity of the offense.
v) Faking videos for obvious troll purposes, April Fool’s pranks, hilarious jokes, etc, with no intention of having the faked run on the world rankings, are exempt to this section. It is advised to clear these pranks with a moderator to avoid any conflict.
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All I know is that Shawn takes back 9th place if Dave gets banned, what a son of a bitch. My thoughts will be in the council topic!
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That would be funny, but that, in NO WAY should be taken into account for this, Jim.
You will cast your vote for what you will, Jim, but if your vote is swayed to keep Montieth on the ranks because you lose a rank, than you're a tool-pouch.
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the mere fact Jim even figured that out means he's a tool pouch and you darn well know it influences what he supports.
edit--btw, whatever the current policies are definitely should be updated in the sticky if it hasn't been already
as for what a completely irrel person thinks atm
I'd probably be voting for removing all his times since Aug 2012 and doing step 1 in that policy. (tho what note did he have on the depot 25 was it "my 12th WR" or some crap like that? (I forgot), I don't think someone would generally bother putting that as a note on something that person intended to pull back just a few days later b/c it's not a real wr)
I think axel made a reasonable point regarding what he thought and I kinda believed monteith when he said the rest of the vids were legit (tho obv if not full hammer is justified). He didn't pretend it was fake like others (tho I can't blame anyone for a full ban argument b/c of how failboat his claimed logic is--I don't know him at all to determine whether that's in his personality range but he seems like a limit pusher type of guy)
We've had multiple fakers go on to be quality eliters before so I kinda hate full bans outside of egregious matters even if the punishment may or may not be serious (which especially considering his low volume of posted pr's in the last year, a 3 month page freeze ban definitely feels that way and it doesn't really do anything anyway other than have someone hoard times I guess).
btw, no matter what the punishment is, someone will always fake (cheaters either don't think they'll get caught or don't care [ie they still get the kick if they get caught]). I'd be well surprised if there isn't a fake vid or several on the ranks and that's sad but that's the way it is. It's difficult not to slip up something somewhere though if you keep it up or even just doing it only once.
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I support a full ban, and I won't waver from that, but curiosity definitely got the best of me. This shouldn't surprise you!
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So with the Henning situation, you and Axel were the only 2 people that didn't support a full ban (due to some shit about having "accurate ranks"). However, in this case (in which the crime is far less severe), you support a full ban? And this has nothing to do with losing a rank...
Is there one decent person in this "community"?
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Is there one decent person in this "community"?
Karl is the incarnation of decency.
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NakedPushUp,
On a personal note, I don't really care if Monteith gets banned or not since the rankings already are inaccurate (everyone know I'm not the 2nd ranked swede in GE etc).
However, as a matter of principle, given that none of Henning's PRs are ranked (not even his LIVE ones), Monteith should be banned too.
Not only that but people here are sick and tired of cheaters. Since Monteith's crime happens to be less severe than Henning's (so far at least), I will leave a blank vote on this matter.
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I've never EVER understood the point of cheating/making fake vids/putting up times that you clearly didn't get. Maybe it's morals, maybe it's not wanting to see times on the ranks I didn't get, or maybe I just think the entire idea of posting false times is one of the most pathetic things I've ever heard of. Either way, this makes me wonder how many times on other games on other ranking sites are false. Not all games have a strict proof policy. I could probably be top 40 in MK64 and no one would bat an eye. Is the general consensus that there are fake times on all the other games and no one cares? Is it that we find so many because the general level of competition in GE is so strong that people have to fake times to get even a mediocre rank?
The idea of fake times seems really lousy and immature. It definitely doesn't make me want the person on the boards or on the ranks. I want fun, fair, honest competition. Cheating sounds like something Goose would do.
Another opinion from an "irrel."
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it was all sounding so on-point until the "cheating sounds like something Goose would do"
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it was all sounding so on-point until the "cheating sounds like something Goose would do"
Well, he did some similar in order to prove a point back in the day.
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Cheating sounds like something your wife would do, Dan. Better check yourself before you wreck yourself.
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnkayesel.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F10%2Fmichael-scott-no.gif&hash=4365b7fc105ca9a11e5f183de5e4a541067cac14)
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flunaticphotos.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F12%2Fnope-nope-nope-gif-spiderwhy-the-uk-is-the-best-place-to-live----page-5---off-topic---villatalk-22h81gwh.gif&hash=def8a8dbb56644747733b54cd045666d986e16ea)
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Hmmm... Nice try Goose? Lol if you actually knew my wife like some other eliters do you'd know how far from the truth that is. Good try though I commend you on trying to be a dick. My statements were fact, yours was a pathetic attempt at a come back. With that being said, fuck monteith and fuck anyone else who cheats.
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Do i need to remember who got cheated by the girldfriend? :nesquik:
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I dont necessarily agree with what dan said, but goose still has spliced runs in an attempt to cheat. Whether or not he "justified" this is objective and I dont think its relevant to the fact he cheated. With that said, i dont think we should put him in the same boat as the other cheaters.
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If you didn't do some dumb shit that you regret when you were 18 years old, then by all means, stand up and tell me that you are God's gift to this Earth. Otherwise, we are all human, and particularly when we are growing up, learning who we are, we tend to do some things we regret. That's life. I can forgive that. Come and Jimbo are two other examples of people who lied about WRs when they were young and stupid, but were forgiven.
The difference when it comes to Monteith and Henning is that they are full grown men in their mid 20s who should have known better. We can still do dumb things as we get older, more mature, and more experienced in life. But when it comes to cheating in a video game? Come on. It's something that's forgiveable when you are young and trying to find your place in this world. But when you are wiser and older? I don't think so.
On top of all this, all of Come, Jimbo, Henning, Monteith, got caught or proof called. I'm in the same group as Expert and Berube who never were caught. Hell, I'm more honourable than either Expert or Berube since I actually admitted my shortcomings. If you're going to do something, do it both well and honourably.
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Monteith is not on his mid 20s, but 19 years old.
Still, he should have known better.
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I wouldn't say I am God's gift to Earth, but I can't really think of anything I regret doing growing up. Not cheating on times seems like something people should have learned at <10 years old. Sure I am 29 years old now and my mentality is way different than it was when I was younger but I've been speedrunning (oh man I use that term loosely) since I was 16 years old and even then I NEVER thought of falsely claiming times. It always seemed pointless to me. Everyone is different yes, but it still should seem pretty elementary. Doing this after knowing the fate of other cheaters is also silly. Henning recently got banned, granted it's not the same situation but that should have been warning enough not to try and put up a fake video. It seems so convenient that everyone that gets caught always says the same thing. "I didn't mean it I was doing it as a test I was going to say something" blah blah blah AFTER they get caught. Seems weird that NO ONE has come forward (Except Clemens trololo) before they got caught and said they put up fake vids. (Unless someone did during the 04-09 era when I wasn't as active)
I would hate to see another player get banned but aren't we opening up the floodgates for more people to 'test' faking vids?
Also I must say Goose your last post wasn't bad. As someone who is meeting you in 8 days it's nice to know you can put together logical thoughts without coming off as a total ass hat. Maybe I tend to only read your troll posts.
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Faking times/videos is that lame sort of empowerment that seduces newbie hackers. With topics like this we unwittingly encourage it by manifesting the spectacle that enticed the "cool hacker guy" in the first place. Monteith is definitely just a kid in my book. Still, I measure maturity here by how long people have been involved, not by age.
Dan, I'd say you have the right to punch Goose in the mouth when you meet him for making a cheating wife joke, but we're the adults so we'll set the example and turn the other cheek eh? I look forward to meeting Goose as I know it will help me be more patient with his vitriolic posts <3 Hell, I don't think I'd like Jimbo a whole lot if I hadn't befriended irl Jimbo. Just sayin.
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I've been speedrunning since I was 16 years old and even then I NEVER thought of falsely claiming times.
100% agree with that. Well, 99%, I started speedrunning at age of 15.
I simply can't understand the fact of people cheating. It is just a worthless thing that only gives a bad image of you as a person. If you cheat, you're most likely to not being believed anymore. There are people who has spent a LOT of effort and dedication to get better and better, and then someone comes here cheating and making worthless that effort... I'm glad that at least there exist competitions where it's extremely hard to cheat like the Rubik's World Championship, for example... You can claim a PR of sub 5 seconds with a 3x3x3 Rubik's cube, but people won't believe you until you get it in an official championship, competing vs people like Feliks or Mats.
I still think a perma ban is excessive, though, but cheaters must be punished, that's for sure.
Said this, happy new year for everyone! :nesquik:
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We will see what discussions in the council bring. I can't wait to hear what YE, Youse, Ngamer, Thingy and Infil have to say on the matter
What about me, Ryan? I'm a shrewd dude
This is getting sorted out in a council thread. Right now the emphasis is developing consensus on the appropriate action based on the current policy. If the community feels the outcome is too light or too heavy, revisions or amendments will be made (already some agreed upon).
Henning vs. Monteith - This debate is a bit convoluted as some people are arguing about times and others are arguing about people. Henning's ban is the result of egregious violation of the rules (both in writing and in measure). If Monteith gets banned it will be rooted in the language of the proof policy and comparison to Henning will be moot conversation. Monteith's character is on trial as much as anything, as it looks like, based on the policy verbiage, the final decision will be a discretionary one (a council consensus).
PS: Me and 10 people watched Jimbo get 0:16 Archives IRL but we had to exclude it because Jimbo is fat
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Did somebody call for a cheater?
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Clark's posts melt my heart oh so good. :*
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egregious
:nesquik:
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identify yourself.
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That is Durk. Discussion can continue in the results thread
http://forums.the-elite.net/forum/index.php?topic=19290
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I disagree with the idea of telling people 'where' they may or may not post.
As I previously pointed out, I will continue to unlock topics that are needlessly locked.
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Agreed, thank you Karl.
Locking this topic is the first administrative thing Ngamer has done since 2005. Quite a joke indeed. Locking topics is NEVER necessary. If they are useless, delete. If they serve any sort of purpose, they need not be locked.
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Yes why have people click into one topic to follow discussion on a subject when you can make them check two.
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This topic discusses the 25
The other one discusses the ban
TWO unique subjects, TWO separate topics.
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Thanks for making everything more convenient. Kappa
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I would rather people click on two topics than have our posting habits controlled by you.
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I'm here for 2.5 years now and the few NGamer appearances in topics I read were all like ...
HERE IS A FUCKING STICKY ATTN TOPIC WHERE IM TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO OR PRESENTING YOU SOMETHING NEW EVEN THOUGH I DIDN'T CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING TO IT
OK OK CALM DOWN EVERYBODY THE BIG NGAMER IS HERE NOW TO RESOLVE THE ISSUE BY CLOSING THIS TOPIC OR PUTTING A CHAT BUDDY ON THE JOB ALTHOUGH I BARELY KNOW WHATS GOING ON
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*sigh* drama drama drama.
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I'm here for 2.5 years now and the few NGamer appearances in topics I read were all like ...
HERE IS A FUCKING STICKY ATTN TOPIC WHERE IM TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO OR PRESENTING YOU SOMETHING NEW EVEN THOUGH I DIDN'T CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING TO IT
OK OK CALM DOWN EVERYBODY THE BIG NGAMER IS HERE NOW TO RESOLVE THE ISSUE BY CLOSING THIS TOPIC OR PUTTING A CHAT BUDDY ON THE JOB ALTHOUGH I BARELY KNOW WHATS GOING ON
Sounds about right.
Ngamer is the hero The Elite deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Jon Bearder.
Correct.