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hi, concerned fan. i couldn't find much through search, so i apologize if this has been covered in-depth somewhere.
it has come to my attention that the goldeneye community is ok with rubberbands and that some runners do in fact use them. i am concerned because i'm not seeing the moral difference between something like this, and something like enabling autofire or outright cracking open a controller and adding/removing things (LOL smk community).
i also don't see how this could be a "slippery slope" of any sort, because there's no progression. "introducing elements that should not be there is wrong". glitches, control schemes, and third party equipment generally cannot be considered as such, but crooked cartridges, macros/autofire, and controller/console mods generally always have.
again, what it comes down to is that rubberbands have some special exception... why? (i saw something called "dot", but i'm not sure what that is)
edit: if it at all helps, i really am not trolling and i really do not understand the history behind this issue. if anything, it's better that i haven't so far, as i can be seen as coming at this from the point of view of someone who can't be considered to simply hate change... never mind that this goes well beyond "change" at all.
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Should I try to find the optimal funny mockery to reply in this thread or just say something random like... "corndog"?
corndog
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Assuming you're not trolling, zfg uses spoons to mash. Rubberbands are not really that different.
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per my edit, i am certainly not trolling. spoons sound pretty wrong too... even in the arcade game communities, where things like autofire aren't always frowned upon, using pencils for track & field-like games is still considered messed up.
rubberbands/spoons/pencils sound about the same as crooked cartridge, really. you're not opening the console/controller up, you're screwing around with the outside to get a screwy result. stuff like simultaneous opposites on d-pads is already dangerously close as is... rubberbands is pretty much going "all the way".
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I'm thinking, at least for stuff like Streets (and maybe that's the only level), not using a rubberband doesn't take any more skill, it just makes it more annoying.
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What is the outside?
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it's not so much about "takes less skill" as it's about "being able to not do something".
the inside, being opening up the controller/cartridge/console; vs the outside, being things like hitting/moving the cartidge/console and tape/rubberbands.
again, this is a consistency check... things like this aren't "supposed" to be there and are normally weeded out. rubberbands simply aren't for some reason; if anything, that's the real slippery slope. i don't see why things like gc stick mods would be excluded from this either... even removing physical buttons seems pretty sketchy.
but more importantly, i'd like to know some of the history behind this, and the rationale behind this exception.
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oh, so it's forced to be a joke topic now? wow, can't even ask a question.
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Get fucked.
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my hands are a mutation of Jesus and Einstein, is that considered cheating?
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I put my TV on a trolley because it's harder to play when it's on the ground.
Is that considered cheating too?
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There you go, a non-troll justification for rubberbands by David Clemens himself:
http://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=16319.msg366718#msg366718
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I was going to make a troll fake music festival poster for "Rubberbands 2014" but it was too much effort.
To seriously respond. Are GLOVES in Baseball "elements that should not be there?" Are SHIN PADS in Futbol "elements that should not be there?" etc etc if everyone agrees something is allowed and everyone is using the same things, then it's fine.
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and yes, if everyone agreed crooked cartridge was allowed, then it would be allowed.
If you want to argue over the semantics and words we chose for our rules and proof policy, then that's just a really lame debate to have.
fuk no editing in FFA, Come sucks, biggest loser in history, etc
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This whole thread itself is rather interesting... Some oldschool players' mentality is so weird, instead of being "HEY, NEW TRICK WAS FOUND, WE CAN SHAVE OFF 3 FUCKING SECONDS / MAKE THE LEVEL EASIER, MODAFOKERS", they're like "oh, waiting for grenades, yolo throw, 2.4 ruined goldeneye and my precious playground of outdated strategies which should remain the same forever, along with my precious ego".
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and yes, if everyone agreed crooked cartridge was allowed, then it would be allowed.
strange, i had found that exact thread but i never saw these posts.
yes, this i'm totally fine with. the same thing happened with autofire in the arcade communities, and it's great! less cts for all. what i'm not fine with is what seems to be an exception for the hell of it. if you're doing something outside of the game to get that convenience, it is cheating; but, again, as long as the rule is "this is cheating but everyone likes it so we're having it, fuck your slippery slopes", that's totally fine.
...but that doesn't seem to be what's happened at all. thiradell's post makes it a little more clear. "there's no way we can really tell without having people record their fucking hands, so fuck it", and it seems people just kinda accepted that without really realizing what's going on. that kinda bothers me, but i would also be in that thread arguing for handcam 20XX solely out of principle (the idea that it would "lower recording quality" is a bit silly), so make of that what you will.
also for the record, i don't see a similar issue with feet. you're not "adding" anything, you're just using another part of your body. similarly, i do have an issue with wall bracing, because it is "adding" something. why put the extra effort into holding the stick with your thumb? because that's how you physically carry out the run! hey, this whole run is pretty "annoying", let's snap the game in half to skip it :kappa:
this isn't about denying change, and it's not about definitions or whatever... it's about consistency, or maybe properly acknowledging inconsistency instead of trying to white lie it into everything.
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you are not CREATING inputs which would not be possible outside of the game. It's literally that simple. Everything that the rubber bands do, a human could theoretically do, and the controller could understand.
Crooked cartridge does stuff the game does not understand.
The community currently is under the opinion that if someone built a machine where in order to use 2.2 you simply had to pull a lever left or right, that'd be fine. Though, I'm sure it would reignite the discussion.
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oh, i'm not saying creating new inputs, no no no. i'm saying automating inputs, like a macro or autofire. i treat them as equivalent because generally there hasn't been a moral distinction between creating and automating; they're banned equally and talked about together ("adding things", things being rubberbands/taping down buttons, autofire circuits, physical tampering, etc).
i'd be fine with that bot too, sounds cool. again, i just want people to honestly say "this pretty clearly goes beyond the game but the community wants it" instead of all the strange justification. like, the obvious slippery slope is that "what humans can theoretically do" + automated bot + "it's all about beating the game as fast as possible, no exceptions" = no distinction between "normal" speedruns and the tas... that's not a stretch at all.
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Why do you care? Youre just a rude cunt trying to argue. Its obvious you have your opinion and that wont change. You didnt come here for clarification you came here just to yell your point of view at us.
This has already been discussed years ago and the players are fine with it. If you have a problem deal with it or leave.
For the record, this topic was moved because it was obvious youre just here to either argue or tell us your opinion. I doubt there was ever any intention to actually get clarification because it seems like your mind is already made up on the issue. Next time you want to randomly show up at a 15 year ild community and tell it how wrong its views are try to be a bit more polite.
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Get fucked.
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well, that's awfully rude. i don't see where i've been impolite at all, and i really don't understand the claims you're throwing against me.
i have tried to avoid opinion altogether; most of what i've posted has been observation. again, i am completely fine with rubberbands out of principle. what i am not ok with is what appears to be an attempt to (unnecessarily) sweep an inconsistent rule under the radar... and it was starting to sound like a misplaced sense of pride. that post there makes a very good case for this. i am now finding it very hard to believe that you aren't simply doing the exact opposite of all the "i hate change" people, which really ends up being the same in the end.
i would still like a clarification on the whys behind this, but it doesn't look like i'll be getting one. people are convinced that i'm the same old foe they've always been fighting, despite my insistence that i'm not and that i'm ok with the actual decisions being made.
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You don't understand because you're socially retarded.
You're a random person making his first post about how rubberbands shouldn't be accepted. And when people tell you why they are accepted, you argue with them. You have the social IQ of forest gump, except he wasn't obnoxious.
You need a reality check if you think people should do shit, or explain shit to you just because you tell them to.
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Things are decided on a case-by-case basis. It's generally a bad idea to use 'universal principles' to dictate decisions because every case is different. Long story short, we looked at everything and made a decision to allow them.
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They aren't accepted but more so frowned upon. It's impossible to measure it detect someone using it when a person only shows a vid of one run. It's a former of cruise control just like the L R Start trick, and as mentioned before, it does not create an input which is impossible to execute without a rubber band.
This is all there is to it. There are no why's, it's been decided like this by people who made up the proof policy which I strongly support because if not allowed: good luck trying to fight it.
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That was one big autocorrect party. Good luck deciphering that!
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My rubberband 2.2ing makes em hoes squirt.
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A rubber band just holds the stick in a certain position.
I could do the same by placing the controller between my knees, but it would be far more annoying. No slippery slope here.
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I lost my right hand in an accident and have a prosthetic hand which has an elastic band attached? Should I not be allowed to speedrun this game?
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ghee-ghus must be related to Hypnotoad.
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Dude, I've been using my elbows for the analog stick and my tongue on A/B/Start because my left hand was born glued to my face... it means that I can't be a top goldeneye player anymore??? :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
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Hey, you all prepare yourself for the Rubberband Man :nesquik: :kappa: :nesquik: :kappa: :nesquik: :kappa:
honorable mention
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Addendum: Sorry for being so harsh before.
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"i would also be in that thread arguing for handcam 20XX solely out of principle"
You are the 1%. Rubber bands are accepted because it makes sense to accept them.
"i really do not understand the history behind this issue."
Sorry bro, but educate yourself. Admitting you know nothing about this while questioning why the decision has been made doesn't make sense.
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this troll got u good ^^^
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my c0ck eint stending animoer
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ghee-ghus, this was fair game to ask; obviously not everyone was on the front lines of past debates & policy-making on this. it's a tough issue, no doubt. i shy from debating it partly because people would do it regardless (can't really catch people) -- cynical, but realistic. a relevant precedent is people pasting a dot on their TV to function as a on-screen sight/crosshairs.
footote: when you post to free-for-all you pretty much have a "kick me" sign on your back. moderators would (should) insulate you a bit if you post in General Chat or GoldenEye
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Correction: I guess this thread was moved here around the time Karl went rabid
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Bashing OP and moving this thread to FFA is the worst modding I've ever seen on these forums.
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I responded to the original poster in PM with a real answer and a decent apology for everyone else being an ass. Yes, Karl moved it here from Goldeneye.
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When a completely random person appears out of nowhere and posts a topic just to tell us how much they disagree with a policy they are either 1) a troll (99% likely), or 2) a moron.
You gave him an 'answer'? He got several answers in this topic but every time he would just still disagree and expect us to 'concede' that we are 'white lieing' everything' For the socially clueless again, this person is either a troll or an idiot.
He knew that FFA was a 'joke' board, and he found the topic very quickly after it was moved. Further confirming my suspisions that this person is just a troll, because a random person would not understand where, or what FFA is.
For those taking this seriously, you're gambling with small odds here.
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Let me give you a metaphor.
If you wanted to develop a relationship with someone would you...
1) introduce yourself, be nice/pleasant etc, respect the other person OR
2) show up and start disagreeing with them, having no other contact with them at all
Just think about it for a second. I'm sorry some of you are too naive to understand basic human interaction and what it says about people and their intentions.
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wow. i stopped reading this because i figured the rest of this topic was just going to be that awful reply by captain planet and then a couple more joke posts. i really appreciate that people at least tried to answer the topic since.
Things are decided on a case-by-case basis. It's generally a bad idea to use 'universal principles' to dictate decisions because every case is different. Long story short, we looked at everything and made a decision to allow them.
the problem is that you keep thinking i'm trying to change something. that is not what i have ever been talking about; as i've said in every single post, i'm completely ok with the actual use of rubberbands. i'm pretty close to putting it as a sig, even.
They aren't accepted but more so frowned upon. It's impossible to measure it detect someone using it when a person only shows a vid of one run. It's a former of cruise control just like the L R Start trick, and as mentioned before, it does not create an input which is impossible to execute without a rubber band.
This is all there is to it. There are no why's, it's been decided like this by people who made up the proof policy which I strongly support because if not allowed: good luck trying to fight it.
right. quite a few people have now said that the decision was more or less "oh people started liking this so we're going to do it". again, that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that.
the problem with the comparison is that it goes beyond "cruise control" by bringing in (or removing) an element that's not a button on the controller or a glitch in the game. it really is no different from popping the controller open and doing whatever you like, because the same type of thing has been done and the same results are achieved. and, again, there's nothing wrong with that... as long as people are being honest about it. see also: autofire in the arcade communities.
A rubber band just holds the stick in a certain position.
I could do the same by placing the controller between my knees, but it would be far more annoying. No slippery slope here.
well, that annoyance is kinda supposed to be there. you don't just go around basically hacking things because something "annoys" you, especially not with all these strange justifications.
i will assure you that the slippery slope is not on my end.
I lost my right hand in an accident and have a prosthetic hand which has an elastic band attached? Should I not be allowed to speedrun this game?
for now, i'm going to take this post seriously, regardless of whether it was a joke or not.
this is starting to get into the debate of mechanical parts in sports, which is technically a different kind of topic. again, i'm not trying to "change" anything; rubber bands are pretty obviously allowed, so as far as the elastic band goes, if you're trying to use it as a rubber band is supposed to be used for goldeneye here, then that should simply be noted.
Dude, I've been using my elbows for the analog stick and my tongue on A/B/Start because my left hand was born glued to my face... it means that I can't be a top goldeneye player anymore??? :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
may as well take this post seriously too. using other body parts is great, and i've already mentioned them. there is no way you can really "cheat" with them like you could with a rubber band/controller mod.
again, rubber bands = fundamentally ok. but rubber bands also = controller mod. and yes, controller mods = fundamentally ok. but people need to be honest about these things.
Addendum: Sorry for being so harsh before.
thank you. seriously, thank you. jesus christ. i think this has simply been a giant breakdown of communication that has very little to do with any post in the thread.
"i would also be in that thread arguing for handcam 20XX solely out of principle"
You are the 1%. Rubber bands are accepted because it makes sense to accept them.
"i really do not understand the history behind this issue."
Sorry bro, but educate yourself. Admitting you know nothing about this while questioning why the decision has been made doesn't make sense.
sorry, but no. i had already searched as much as i could about the darned things and all i really found was that "hated innovations" topic, which only covers some blowback well after the fact. others have already made clear what the situation is like since.
again, i don't have a problem with the actual decision, especially seeing as it was more or less random. but there's another layer to this that ends up being way more important, because it's what i've been complaining about in the first place: the dishonesty.
it really does seem that there's a misplaced sense of pride among some (probably one that people are simply clinging to because it's available) and a good bit of simple dishonesty among others. the use of rubber bands seems to be one of those "secrets that everyone knows"; it is generally kept hushed up and apparently violently reacted to whenever someone tries to talk about it (i'm having points i've said countless times getting completely ignored as if i never said them). that's kinda worrying, sir.
When a completely random person appears out of nowhere and posts a topic just to tell us how much they disagree with a policy they are either 1) a troll (99% likely), or 2) a moron.
You gave him an 'answer'? He got several answers in this topic but every time he would just still disagree and expect us to 'concede' that we are 'white lieing' everything' For the socially clueless again, this person is either a troll or an idiot.
He knew that FFA was a 'joke' board, and he found the topic very quickly after it was moved. Further confirming my suspisions that this person is just a troll, because a random person would not understand where, or what FFA is.
For those taking this seriously, you're gambling with small odds here.
Let me give you a metaphor.
If you wanted to develop a relationship with someone would you...
1) introduce yourself, be nice/pleasant etc, respect the other person OR
2) show up and start disagreeing with them, having no other contact with them at all
Just think about it for a second. I'm sorry some of you are too naive to understand basic human interaction and what it says about people and their intentions.
even after that apology? wow. so, even though i covered the entire reason you're freaking out earlier in this hella tl;dr post:
when a mod comes out of nowhere and starts freaking out about things that haven't even been said--this is the nth time i'm going to say that i'm perfectly fine with the actual policy--and then presses this supposed point despite me actually saying nth times that they're complaining about something that may as well be from another dimension... you're either a troll yourself, or you've got a canned response about something you don't even want to touch anymore.
so what's with the insulting of my intelligence, even though that fits right in line with this behavior? i took the second required to glance over all the different subforums so that i knew i was posting in the right place. i had the topic bookmarked so i would remember to look at it when i could (because this issue really does interest me that much); i didn't realize it was moved until i found i couldn't edit anymore, and i think i'm perfectly capable of reading a subforum description after realizing this. and even aside from all of that, i could clearly see this topic as the "recent topic" for this subforum on the forum index... can, even, before i made this post just now. i'm not sure it's even been displaced except by that stupid joke mirror topic...
i didn't "disagree" with anybody from the outset, especially not you! you came out of nowhere and started accusing me of a really boring cliche that i didn't even tangentially touch on and that i have denied ever since. i know you're a mod and all, but even other mods have pointed out that you're going a bit too far here, so i think it's fair for me to claim that you're the one who needs to rethink how to approach people.
once again, at the end of all of this, i am still worried about what i perceive as a misplaced sense of pride over something that has normally always been seen as cheating by everyone who makes the metric, in a field where the experts are frequently falsely accused of cheating. the actual decision is fine; the faux-casual responses are not, especially when i'm being told that this is both super serious policy and casual house rule. i'm sorry, but that's extremely worrying.
i'd like to get into speedrunning one day, and goldeneye seems like a cool enough game (though i'd probably play pd at that point tbch)... how am i supposed to completely ignore the game's community being super weird about something like this? why does this have to be so sketchy?
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100% troll. Most people realised this (hence the dumb replies). For those who think otherwise, enjoy your new friend.
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new reply'd: are you fucking kidding me, dude? you have pretty much said "hurr, i'm not gonna read this shit, i'm not gonna read ANY of this shit, he HAS to be a troll". how's that for misinterpreting people? i not even sure i'm misinterpreting you here!
you know what? i'm going to admit that the first few posts can be misconstrued as "herp derp i hate change", regardless of all the qualifiers and the insane assumptions you'd have to make. i apologize; i should have worded it better, and i just thought people might have started talk on the actual underlying principle first. i mean it's already bad enough that people are super cynical because they see so much boring trolling going on that they don't even want to read anything that even remotely seems confrontational. it's already bad enough that, similarly, people despise the entire concept of "argument" and have completely broken that poor word because they seen too many dumb people say dumb things in a dumb way. but when i have to sit here and deny something for the entire rest of the thread and the actual denial is being ignored, someone that is not me is going too far.
and no, i didn't literally say "i'm ok with rubber bands" in every single post, though i really am this close to putting it in the sig so it actually will be.
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can't even spell, *you've, *i'm not, jesus can i please get this back in the ge subforum so i can actually edit posts
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(https://i.imgur.com/7jGz7cm.gif)
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:v
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It's not your fault. Most of the people in the Elite are abnormal and have gone through rough times (failed in college, zero social life, spend most of their time in a basement using a computer, don't help their parents, jobless, etc.) and don't know how to interact with people. Take whatever most people here (and generally on the Internet) say with a grain of salt. Just quickly go over the history (it's clear you didn't look into this properly since you don't know much about the dot either) and only respond to the serious replies in this thread.
I don't know why this topic was moved to FFA. Like I said most people here are weird and arrogant and assume most, if not all, newcomers are trolls. It's just how this place is.
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I will give you a few more examples. When some newcomer gets a good time fast, they assume he is a troll. When someone with an unusual name also joins, they assume he is a troll. This topic is another prime example of people they consider trolls.
Based on this thread alone you can tell who are the losers in this community.
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the problem is that you keep thinking i'm trying to change something. that is not what i have ever been talking about; as i've said in every single post, i'm completely ok with the actual use of rubberbands. i'm pretty close to putting it as a sig, even.
Given that your reply #3 says it is "wrong", rubberbands sound "about the same as crooked cartridge", "rubberbands is pretty much going all the way", that post #6 talks about it being the "real slippery slope" etc...
Given that, it's easy to see why people think you came here to argue, and why folks would immediately become defensive when a newcomer starts arguing against a practice (I'm still not completely certain you understand what a rubberband does in this case). If all you really wanted to know was the rationale or history, then you could have worded things a little more carefully. That being said, I am sorry you've been treated with such rudeness.
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[quote author = Jimbo]I responded to the original poster in PM with a real answer and a decent apology for everyone else being an ass. Yes, K.. moved it here from Goldeneye.[/quote]
The next day...
wow. i stopped reading this because i figured the rest of this topic was just going to be that awful reply by captain planet and then a couple more joke posts. i really appreciate that people at least tried to answer the topic since.
Things are decided on a case-by-case basis. It's generally a bad idea to use 'universal principles' to dictate decisions because every case is different. Long story short, we looked at everything and made a decision to allow them.
the problem is that you keep thinking i'm trying to change something. that is not what i have ever been talking about; as i've said in every single post, i'm completely ok with the actual use of rubberbands. i'm pretty close to putting it as a sig, even.
They aren't accepted but more so frowned upon. It's impossible to measure it detect someone using it when a person only shows a vid of one run. It's a former of cruise control just like the L R Start trick, and as mentioned before, it does not create an input which is impossible to execute without a rubber band.
This is all there is to it. There are no why's, it's been decided like this by people who made up the proof policy which I strongly support because if not allowed: good luck trying to fight it.
right. quite a few people have now said that the decision was more or less "oh people started liking this so we're going to do it". again, that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that.
the problem with the comparison is that it goes beyond "cruise control" by bringing in (or removing) an element that's not a button on the controller or a glitch in the game. it really is no different from popping the controller open and doing whatever you like, because the same type of thing has been done and the same results are achieved. and, again, there's nothing wrong with that... as long as people are being honest about it. see also: autofire in the arcade communities.
A rubber band just holds the stick in a certain position.
I could do the same by placing the controller between my knees, but it would be far more annoying. No slippery slope here.
well, that annoyance is kinda supposed to be there. you don't just go around basically hacking things because something "annoys" you, especially not with all these strange justifications.
i will assure you that the slippery slope is not on my end.
I lost my right hand in an accident and have a prosthetic hand which has an elastic band attached? Should I not be allowed to speedrun this game?
for now, i'm going to take this post seriously, regardless of whether it was a joke or not.
this is starting to get into the debate of mechanical parts in sports, which is technically a different kind of topic. again, i'm not trying to "change" anything; rubber bands are pretty obviously allowed, so as far as the elastic band goes, if you're trying to use it as a rubber band is supposed to be used for goldeneye here, then that should simply be noted.
Dude, I've been using my elbows for the analog stick and my tongue on A/B/Start because my left hand was born glued to my face... it means that I can't be a top goldeneye player anymore??? :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
may as well take this post seriously too. using other body parts is great, and i've already mentioned them. there is no way you can really "cheat" with them like you could with a rubber band/controller mod.
again, rubber bands = fundamentally ok. but rubber bands also = controller mod. and yes, controller mods = fundamentally ok. but people need to be honest about these things.
Addendum: Sorry for being so harsh before.
thank you. seriously, thank you. jesus christ. i think this has simply been a giant breakdown of communication that has very little to do with any post in the thread.
"i would also be in that thread arguing for handcam 20XX solely out of principle"
You are the 1%. Rubber bands are accepted because it makes sense to accept them.
"i really do not understand the history behind this issue."
Sorry bro, but educate yourself. Admitting you know nothing about this while questioning why the decision has been made doesn't make sense.
sorry, but no. i had already searched as much as i could about the darned things and all i really found was that "hated innovations" topic, which only covers some blowback well after the fact. others have already made clear what the situation is like since.
again, i don't have a problem with the actual decision, especially seeing as it was more or less random. but there's another layer to this that ends up being way more important, because it's what i've been complaining about in the first place: the dishonesty.
it really does seem that there's a misplaced sense of pride among some (probably one that people are simply clinging to because it's available) and a good bit of simple dishonesty among others. the use of rubber bands seems to be one of those "secrets that everyone knows"; it is generally kept hushed up and apparently violently reacted to whenever someone tries to talk about it (i'm having points i've said countless times getting completely ignored as if i never said them). that's kinda worrying, sir.
When a completely random person appears out of nowhere and posts a topic just to tell us how much they disagree with a policy they are either 1) a troll (99% likely), or 2) a moron.
You gave him an 'answer'? He got several answers in this topic but every time he would just still disagree and expect us to 'concede' that we are 'white lieing' everything' For the socially clueless again, this person is either a troll or an idiot.
He knew that FFA was a 'joke' board, and he found the topic very quickly after it was moved. Further confirming my suspisions that this person is just a troll, because a random person would not understand where, or what FFA is.
For those taking this seriously, you're gambling with small odds here.
Let me give you a metaphor.
If you wanted to develop a relationship with someone would you...
1) introduce yourself, be nice/pleasant etc, respect the other person OR
2) show up and start disagreeing with them, having no other contact with them at all
Just think about it for a second. I'm sorry some of you are too naive to understand basic human interaction and what it says about people and their intentions.
even after that apology? wow. so, even though i covered the entire reason you're freaking out earlier in this hella tl;dr post:
when a mod comes out of nowhere and starts freaking out about things that haven't even been said--this is the nth time i'm going to say that i'm perfectly fine with the actual policy--and then presses this supposed point despite me actually saying nth times that they're complaining about something that may as well be from another dimension... you're either a troll yourself, or you've got a canned response about something you don't even want to touch anymore.
so what's with the insulting of my intelligence, even though that fits right in line with this behavior? i took the second required to glance over all the different subforums so that i knew i was posting in the right place. i had the topic bookmarked so i would remember to look at it when i could (because this issue really does interest me that much); i didn't realize it was moved until i found i couldn't edit anymore, and i think i'm perfectly capable of reading a subforum description after realizing this. and even aside from all of that, i could clearly see this topic as the "recent topic" for this subforum on the forum index... can, even, before i made this post just now. i'm not sure it's even been displaced except by that stupid joke mirror topic...
i didn't "disagree" with anybody from the outset, especially not you! you came out of nowhere and started accusing me of a really boring cliche that i didn't even tangentially touch on and that i have denied ever since. i know you're a mod and all, but even other mods have pointed out that you're going a bit too far here, so i think it's fair for me to claim that you're the one who needs to rethink how to approach people.
once again, at the end of all of this, i am still worried about what i perceive as a misplaced sense of pride over something that has normally always been seen as cheating by everyone who makes the metric, in a field where the experts are frequently falsely accused of cheating. the actual decision is fine; the faux-casual responses are not, especially when i'm being told that this is both super serious policy and casual house rule. i'm sorry, but that's extremely worrying.
i'd like to get into speedrunning one day, and goldeneye seems like a cool enough game (though i'd probably play pd at that point tbch)... how am i supposed to completely ignore the game's community being super weird about something like this? why does this have to be so sketchy?
Nice work Jimbo! Your real answer was a complete success! :kappa:
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I think its time to lock this thread, its the only way to be sure.
(https://blog.openstreetmap.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/734c6-aliens-vs-predator-players-wanted-20090526000151286-0001.jpg)
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Rubberband... BAND BAND
Rubberband... BAND BAND BAND BAND BAND
I'm gunna rubberband, band you into my life.
Girl, you like to rubberband and it's alright.
'cause' I'm the king of rubberband, yea, that's right .
I'll just rubberband, bang you every night.
And, girl you know that you're the only girl for me,girl.
Girl, you're the girl of my fantasies, you're my girl,
(Screams: Cartman I love you!!!)
You're my girl, my girl.
Rubberband, band band band band...
Rubberband... BAND BAND BAND BAND BAND
I'm gunna rubberband, band you into my life.
Girl, you like to rubberband and it's alright.
'cause' I'm the king of rubberband, yea, that's right .
I'll just rubberband, bang you every night.
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It's not your fault. Most of the people in the Elite are abnormal and have gone through rough times (failed in college, zero social life, spend most of their time in a basement using a computer, don't help their parents, jobless, etc.) and don't know how to interact with people. Take whatever most people here (and generally on the Internet) say with a grain of salt. Just quickly go over the history (it's clear you didn't look into this properly since you don't know much about the dot either) and only respond to the serious replies in this thread.
yeah, i've since looked up dot and stuff, but i figured it'd be the same as rubber bands (and after looking into it, it most certainly is). i still can't really find anything for rubber bands except that one thread, but i've already got one answer i needed. in a way i've already got the other (the whole pride thing) too, so i guess it doesn't matter so much anymore. still, i really don't want to believe that it just comes down to people being meaninglessly weird; again, why does that have to be the cause of everything?
Given that your reply #3 says it is "wrong", rubberbands sound "about the same as crooked cartridge", "rubberbands is pretty much going all the way", that post #6 talks about it being the "real slippery slope" etc...
Given that, it's easy to see why people think you came here to argue, and why folks would immediately become defensive when a newcomer starts arguing against a practice (I'm still not completely certain you understand what a rubberband does in this case). If all you really wanted to know was the rationale or history, then you could have worded things a little more carefully. That being said, I am sorry you've been treated with such rudeness.
i'm sorry, but you're taking every single line out of context, even within the posts themselves. it's obviously "wrong" in the sense that it's been considered "cheating" since the dawn of video games, it's "about the same as crooked cartridge" and "going all the way" for the same reason, i think both whitegoose and me have made it pretty clear that there's nothing actually wrong with either besides, and "the real slippery slope" (as opposed to this silly "cheating automagically leads to more cheating thing") is not on my end. i'm talking about preexisting standards every single time, and i know each of those posts at least have an obvious hint to this if nothing else.
but the thing is that even after all of this, i had already outright stated my position well before captain planet butted in. i will maintain that people just have super sensitive triggers and that there's nothing i can do about that except make every post in a super roundabout way that these people can't even process (which is stupid and way closer to trolling than anything i've done so far). oh fucking well.
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Man, I've been watching some debates on the Internet lately, and they seem to devolve similarly. Do you want to have a discussion about this? Rubber bands are allowed 1) because it's impossible to disallow them 2) because they don't alter anything in the game, like a crooked cartridge does. You said "I would be arguing for handcam in 20xx out of principle," how could anyone interpret that as you being okay with rubber bands?
Are rubber bands a grey area? Yes. I apologize if we seem unyielding in our responses, this is an issue that we've dealt with. If you are a concerned fan looking to get into GE, there's probably several other grey areas you could bring up that are more controversial than this. There's really nothing to be talked about. What's so sketchy? There isn't a rubber band club that meets in a cellar to cheat their way to untieds, it's a minor convenience that a few people use on a few levels. It isn't comparable to autofire or macros, because humans can easily do what a rubber band does.
I'm sorry you felt maligned. This is the sort of thing you could pop into a twitch chat and ask, rather than using it as an introduction to our community, which has people who are free to yell at whoever they want.
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It's astounding and embarrassing how big of assholes some people here can be. Unbelievable, especially from a mod like you Karl.
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but the thing is that even after all of this, i had already outright stated my position well before captain planet butted in. i will maintain that people just have super sensitive triggers and that there's nothing i can do about that except make every post in a super roundabout way that these people can't even process (which is stupid and way closer to trolling than anything i've done so far). oh fucking well.
Jimbo, coming from a new person this is 10x more rude than anything I did. And I knew the person was either extremely rude/a troll the moment he had done several replies.
Jim, a worrying thing with you (and a couple of others), is that the only metric you have at the moment to measure rudeness is profanities. This is going to fuck you up in life because people will nicely use and abuse the fuck out of you and then you will wake up in 5 years realising you've wasted years of effort and emotions on people for nothing.
You PM'd this person and it did absolutely nothing for this discussion, because the discussion was never about answering questions, but rather having us yield to this apparently fact that we're 'sketchy' and 'weird' and 'inconcsistent' with our reasoning in our decisions. Instead of listening to the replies he got, he believes that people simply do not understand him, or else we would agree. and if he disagrees, it's not because he's disagreeing, it's because we don't understand or because we have 'sensitive triggers'.
I sincerely worry about you Jim if you continue to be this blind to things like this.
But in saying that, in the future I will not move topics. Please continue to waste your time investing into every single random person who decides to come here with an agenda.
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In fact, just remove my mod status.
I 100% believe this person is either a complete dick, wasting everyone's time, or a complete troll, wasting everyone's time. If you don't agree with the judgement then we have a problem obviously.
If I wasn't a mod I could voice my opinion without all the bullshit attached.
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Who the fuck uses their first post on the message boards to criticize something as miniscule as rubber bands for controllers.
Obvious troll.
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Basically, I try to stop people from wasting time on stupid trolls (or just fuckwits in general) because they are too naive and unwise to know when they are being played or abused.
But I'm completely happy to let you take care of yourselves.
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This reminds me of The Lord of the Rings, where golem (who is obviously messed up in the head) manages to turn Frodo against Sam. Sam knows Golem is evil and abuses him for it, but Frodo (who is somewhat messed up by the ring) doesn't see it (or refuses to because he is clinging onto hope that he himself can be saved from the ring) and abuses Sam for it. Eventually casting out Sam (who was just trying to protect Frodo).
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i'm sorry, but you're taking every single line out of context, even within the posts themselves... i'm talking about preexisting standards every single time, and i know each of those posts at least have an obvious hint to this if nothing else.
It is hard to see how anyone could read your first couple of posts and come to that conclusion. Since everyone who replied seems to have thought you believed rubberbands to be wrong, then the communication problem is on your side. As I said, you should have worded things more carefully if that's not what you really thought.
Karl, it's not the profanities, it's the attitude.
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Shadow I wasn't talking about me, I was talking about the OP. So you misunderstand my point.
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Controller modifications aren't inherently a bad thing, which seem to be where ghee-ghus is coming from. "Cracking open" a controller is not the same as using a rubberband even though they can both be seen as modifications. It's up to the community to decide which modifications that are acceptable and those that aren't, and no one here is trying to hide anything about it. Again, we are consistent: using rubberbands isn't seen as cheating here and it can't be compared to opening a controller and making it so Bond can turn 80 % faster or some crap. YOU want these two things to be seen as equal in terms of controller modifications, and that's pretty damn silly.
Also, something like autofire, which you also compare it to, is waaay more helpful than using a rubberband. Autofire can make you press the buttons way faster, a clear advantage compared to not using it, and rubberband is only used so you don't have to hold two controllers, which is only done for convenience and nothing is being done better or faster than if you were to hold them both.
You, a critical noob from out of nowhere, kinda have to understand that you're not a speedrunning moral crusader. Your logic and comparisons are faulty and weak.
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Obviously meant that ghee-ghus has the point of view that modifications ARE inherently bad and the same thing, regardless of what the modification actually entail.
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(failed in college, zero social life, spend most of their time in a basement using a computer, don't help their parents, jobless, etc.)
:rollin: :rollin:
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(https://i.imgur.com/SFgJYAY.png)
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i love speedrunning video games
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Man, I've been watching some debates on the Internet lately, and they seem to devolve similarly. Do you want to have a discussion about this? Rubber bands are allowed 1) because it's impossible to disallow them 2) because they don't alter anything in the game, like a crooked cartridge does. You said "I would be arguing for handcam in 20xx out of principle," how could anyone interpret that as you being okay with rubber bands?
no, i don't want to "have a discussion" about this; i'm ok with rubber bands to begin with. no, an approval of handcam doesn't conflict with an approval of rubber bands at all (how does that even work); why does it matter what your "interpretation" is when i flatly say "i'm ok with <x>" a million times?
Are rubber bands a grey area? Yes. I apologize if we seem unyielding in our responses, this is an issue that we've dealt with. If you are a concerned fan looking to get into GE, there's probably several other grey areas you could bring up that are more controversial than this. There's really nothing to be talked about. What's so sketchy? There isn't a rubber band club that meets in a cellar to cheat their way to untieds, it's a minor convenience that a few people use on a few levels. It isn't comparable to autofire or macros, because humans can easily do what a rubber band does.
no, rubber bands are not a gray area... that's part of the point, even. your secretive club scenario is kinda what i'm getting at here; from all the posts i've seen so far, it really does feel that way. "can easily do" is the entire slippery slope. you're trying to semantics your way out of one mod being better because it's "not as bad"... you can't get away from the fact that it's still a mod! it doesn't matter how "easy" the act normally is because you're still automating something. and yes, autofire and macros really are identical to what's going on here; performing the acts normally is "annoying".
this is what i'm taking issue with, the bizarre justifications and the strange sense of pride/feeling super wise for what is an incredibly simple decision. i'll go ahead and toss it multiple times in a post: i am fine with the actual decision; what i am not fine with is the culture that has built up behind the decision, which eventually ties into the reasoning behind the decision. it is flawed and dangerous thinking that leads to way more problems than the actual decision ever could (one of the biggest reasons why i'm fine with the decision).
I'm sorry you felt maligned. This is the sort of thing you could pop into a twitch chat and ask, rather than using it as an introduction to our community, which has people who are free to yell at whoever they want.
yeah, no. something so ingrained in the community is not something you take to ridiculously unhelpful twitch chats. i've been in way too many of them, i know better.
Jimbo, coming from a new person this is 10x more rude than anything I did. And I knew the person was either extremely rude/a troll the moment he had done several replies.
and you're wrong, and the only reason i'm getting at all "rude" right now is because of people like you!
you think this is about "agreeing" with some random opinion, you think this is some kind of stupid battle. you think i'm worried about people "not understanding me" when all i'm doing is posting observations and getting the exact kind of responses that those observations came from.
but above all else, you think you can "diagnose" yourself despite all of this and act like all your obvious hateful negatives are kind positives. the only one who has an agenda here is you, and i'm tired of staring your crap in the face.
Who the fuck uses their first post on the message boards to criticize something as miniscule as rubber bands for controllers.
Obvious troll.
but i'm not criticizing rubber bands at all! fuck it dude, i'm putting it in the sig, i'm tired of this shit. when people literally ignore a very simple statement that's been repeated a thousand times, the person who said the statement is not at fault.
It is hard to see how anyone could read your first couple of posts and come to that conclusion. Since everyone who replied seems to have thought you believed rubberbands to be wrong, then the communication problem is on your side. As I said, you should have worded things more carefully if that's not what you really thought.
yes, and i've already apologized for this, and i understand anyone who might have been confused at that point. but other posts now exist, and a lot of the actual posts in this thread were made well after the first few of my posts.
Obviously meant that ghee-ghus has the point of view that modifications ARE inherently bad and the same thing, regardless of what the modification actually entail.
i'm fine with rubber bands. these are not my standards; these are observations of existing standards. all i have asked is why the community behind this decision wants to make it look like it's something more than it is.
they are equal, and all the "opinion" in the world can't do anything about that. a controller mod is a controller mod is a controller mod. just because you have a misplaced sense of pride in this very specific mod does not mean you get to rewrite basic definitions. just because the actual effect isn't "as much" for a particular game does not mean you get to rewrite basic definitions!
jesus fucking christ i am actually legitimately pissed off right now, i drop these huge ass posts full of responses and people completely ignore them and then say i've never clarified anything elmdslgslkbnlsknlbk
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lol
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(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.gyazo.com%2Ffb9c1ed40504b9eeb1e1136a763abc57.png&hash=760bb049852c657bc3ef9ba9a2053bd7420b8f2c)
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He is fine with rubber bands.
/thread
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kepap
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Hey guys, remember when this troll posted this? The account was active for 6 days and he never logged in again.
Now I know what you're thinking.. KARL he was an obvious TROLL who just created an account to fuck with the dumb people here who are too stupid to know the difference. But NO I have to disrespectfully disagree with you, you idiot!
This guy was LEGIT. A smart, honest, wise, decent man who wanted to be a part of this community. But I SCARED HIM OFF. I abused him and BECAUSE OF ME he is gone forever. What otherwise would have been an amazing new member of the elite is now a distant memory. A scar on an otherwise flawless face of the-elite.net.
I just want to say I'M SORRY. I'M FUCKING SORRY.
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We should have "The Elite Bully Rankings", I think I'm a solid candidate to make at least Top 3 or Top 5
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We should have "The Elite Bully Rankings", I think I'm a solid candidate to make at least Top 3 or Top 5
yeah all your posts make me want to kill myself so i think that counts as bullying
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We should have "The Elite Bully Rankings", I think I'm a solid candidate to make at least Top 3 or Top 5
yeah all your posts make me want to kill myself so i think that counts as bullying
:rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:
100% true
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oh hey Stefan Glosby, how's it going mate?
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This reminds me of The Lord of the Rings, where golem (who is obviously messed up in the head) manages to turn Frodo against Sam. Sam knows Golem is evil and abuses him for it, but Frodo (who is somewhat messed up by the ring) doesn't see it (or refuses to because he is clinging onto hope that he himself can be saved from the ring) and abuses Sam for it. Eventually casting out Sam (who was just trying to protect Frodo).
:D
Nice analogy.
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thanks