The Elite Forum

The Big Three Plus One => GoldenEye 007 => Topic started by: Jimbo on October 27, 2014, 12:26:28 am

Title: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Jimbo on October 27, 2014, 12:26:28 am
These are the best known records for GoldenEye on the Nintendo 64. All of our scores are achieved on an unmodified Nintendo 64 without cheating devices or codes.

This recent onslaught of Depot times is becoming a joke and it's because most guys are using modified controllers to be able to hold speed easier. Superpad was bad and you guys blew it off, but this is some bullshit if you ask me. What are we going to do about this? Nothing, that's right, because there's no way to police it and we'd be balls deep in shit trying to sort out what times are real and what times are GameCubed. Sorry Cosmo.

Carry on.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Time was untied when set. on October 27, 2014, 12:30:57 am
lol

Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: deletedprofile.u on October 27, 2014, 12:40:41 am
lol

#PJSalt

(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.gyazo.com%2F7c4d29c4fa41ec732c41dde8082521b0.png&hash=4e3e7403a8d914395cd8e8927f1d655c0ab17d47)
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: JustinDT on October 27, 2014, 12:48:37 am
What are we going to do about this? Nothing, that's right, because there's no way to police it and we'd be balls deep in shit trying to sort out what times are real and what times are GameCubed.

ok....so the point of this topic was?
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Jimbo on October 27, 2014, 12:52:03 am
We will allow clear hacking of a controller for comfort, but I can't use ever drive to play PAL. It's actually maniacally and insanely unfair.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Time was untied when set. on October 27, 2014, 12:53:10 am
jim gettin so salty hes gonna be on the next bag of Lays Salt and Vinegar Chips
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Bikers on October 27, 2014, 12:53:19 am
isn't this like how everybody was whining about how Cosmo got iQue for OoT?
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Icy on October 27, 2014, 12:57:57 am
I wouldn't mind having R work as B so I can open doors better. :v

:kappa:
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Thiradell on October 27, 2014, 01:54:37 am
MANIACALLY unfair
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Aztec Exemplar on October 27, 2014, 02:51:25 am
guys quick get 40/48 before cheatstick is banned

send me one pls
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: flukey lukey on October 27, 2014, 02:58:40 am
would you like some salt on your jelly Jim?


The Future:

Jim gets cheatstick

Struggles to dupe 42 depot sa

loses 10th spot

Rage-quits elite for good
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Wodahs-Reklaw on October 27, 2014, 03:10:39 am
So how is using a cheat stick different than using a 3rd party controller that has an equal benefit? I think you are arguing about semantics here.

Just to break it down I am pretty sure the difference between the N64 stick and GC stick is that the output from both is digitized differently thus producing different values that the N64 sees. However any 3rd party controller could and probably has a different way of digitizing the signal thus allowing from the same issue.

Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: SimThreat on October 27, 2014, 03:23:10 am
I'm sorry but this is really pathetic behaviour coming from a moderator.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: SimThreat on October 27, 2014, 03:26:10 am
Furthermore, Nintendo are no longer making controllers and haven't for a long time. With your reasoning the lifespan of the game would be very limited because eventually all of the official controllers will stop working and then we're fucked. This seems like an obvious attempt to remain in the top 10, because you know that by the time people inevitably catch up to you their controllers will be worn out and unusable.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: speedruntrainer on October 27, 2014, 04:41:28 am
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.gamesradar.com%2Fimages%2Fmb%2FGamesRadar%2Fus%2FDaily%2F2010%2F08-Aug%2F06%2FMario%2520Party%2Fmp-tug-of-war--article_image.jpg&hash=3a02a946206c18d3bdacae50102586b8a020194d)

:nesquik:
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Spec on October 27, 2014, 05:16:27 am
(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20130126200949%2Fmario%2Fimages%2F8%2F84%2FPaddle_Battle_%28Mario_Party%29.png&hash=3bd086d3dee2956048469ec671f8c248fb65cf39)
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Jimbo on October 27, 2014, 08:00:57 am
Nah this topic is more of a...

(https://forums.the-elite.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FzYSQtkQT7vo%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg&hash=7f80687f5728af72a23f3d6f0dc79c629bafccc9)

... type thing. Still don't understand banning Everdrive but allowing hardware swaps on the controller.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: SgtRaven on October 27, 2014, 10:18:24 am
Banning Everdrive is pretty insane and I've always felt that way. Thank goodness there is no way to confirm whether one has been used or not.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: OHMSS on October 27, 2014, 12:45:59 pm
The longevity of original N64 sticks is complete shit bro, they can go from 10/10 to unusable (as far as things like Facility running are concerned) within a year and to <100% max amplitude (no CC) within a few days. Dafuq is this shit?
You might be a original gear proponent because you are in touch with collectors (or are one yourself) who ensure your constant supply of 8-10/10s. But keep in mind that the average skilled guy, fueled by GE streams he found on twitch, who unearths his N64 with the 2/10 controller bought in 1998 to try for Dam 54, is not in your cosy situation. Instead you should complain about no  full-value 3rd party stick for the main controller being around so far, only crappy over-sensitve strafechange sticks. Or complain about how the 2.x glitch made GE speedrunning retarded, which is the real issue here imo.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: 50 on October 27, 2014, 01:34:47 pm
jim gettin so salty hes gonna be on the next bag of Lays Salt and Vinegar Chips

:kappa::kappa::kappa::kappa:
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Jimbo on October 27, 2014, 01:41:19 pm
The longevity of original N64 sticks is complete shit bro, they can go from 10/10 to unusable (as far as things like Facility running are concerned) within a year and to <100% max amplitude (no CC) within a few days. Dafuq is this shit?
You might be a original gear proponent because you are in touch with collectors (or are one yourself) who ensure your constant supply of 8-10/10s. But keep in mind that the average skilled guy, fueled by GE streams he found on twitch, who unearths his N64 with the 2/10 controller bought in 1998 to try for Dam 54, is not in your cosy situation. Instead you should complain about no  full-value 3rd party stick for the main controller being around so far, only crappy over-sensitve strafechange sticks. Or complain about how the 2.x glitch made GE speedrunning retarded, which is the real issue here imo.

I like this post, but my original (angered) post, which I shouldn't have ever posted at all, still stems from rules not being completely universal. I'm a rankings mod and I have no say in anything around here. NTSC players can finally play PAL and we can get major competition to spice up, but nope Everdrive is banned for no good reason other than "possible cheating". (Hint, SRT's Dam 0:53 is Everdrive) Now everyone is making Depot a joke because of a controller modification. I don't even have a problem with 2.x
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: sweetener on October 27, 2014, 02:00:19 pm
controller modification

use a superpad then  :kappa:
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Wodahs-Reklaw on October 27, 2014, 02:02:19 pm
I honestly don't see the issue is, its basically like turning a really shitty controller that is unusable for GE into a super pad which is basically only good for strafing. If your issue is with the super pad, that makes sense but to my knowledge a discussion about that was already had.

 :kappa:
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Wodahs-Reklaw on October 27, 2014, 04:22:56 pm
First of all if you have ever taken apart a n64 controller you will find that the entire joystick assembly is modular, intended to be removed and replaced if needed. Additonally Nintendo at one point did sell replacement parts such as the joystick assembly in its entirety.

It is intended for the stick to be replaceable. It does not do anything different any other 3rd party controller could do, this does not change the game runs or anything like that. Please if you consider this a mod, then changing the back on a NTSC cart is a mod and so if you play Jap carts and an NTSC-EN console then its modded.

This thread is silly and this point has been beaten to death and I don't see the logic in arguments against this, like I said a million times, any issue with this joystick replacement should be about an argument about using any controller other than the OEM n64 controller which already has a precedent set in the Superpad Era. /thread
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Smit on October 27, 2014, 04:40:36 pm
First of all if you have ever taken apart a n64 controller you will find that the entire joystick assembly is modular, intended to be removed and replaced if needed. Additonally Nintendo at one point did sell replacement parts such as the joystick assembly in its entirety.

It is intended for the stick to be replaceable. It does not do anything different any other 3rd party controller could do, this does not change the game runs or anything like that. Please if you consider this a mod, then changing the back on a NTSC cart is a mod and so if you play Jap carts and an NTSC-EN console then its modded.

This thread is silly and this point has been beaten to death and I don't see the logic in arguments against this, like I said a million times, any issue with this joystick replacement should be about an argument about using any controller other than the OEM n64 controller which already has a precedent set in the Superpad Era. /thread
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: deletedprofile.u on October 27, 2014, 04:49:33 pm
First of all if you have ever taken apart a n64 controller you will find that the entire joystick assembly is modular, intended to be removed and replaced if needed. Additonally Nintendo at one point did sell replacement parts such as the joystick assembly in its entirety.

It is intended for the stick to be replaceable. It does not do anything different any other 3rd party controller could do, this does not change the game runs or anything like that. Please if you consider this a mod, then changing the back on a NTSC cart is a mod and so if you play Jap carts and an NTSC-EN console then its modded.

This thread is silly and this point has been beaten to death and I don't see the logic in arguments against this, like I said a million times, any issue with this joystick replacement should be about an argument about using any controller other than the OEM n64 controller which already has a precedent set in the Superpad Era. /thread

(https://i.imgur.com/JaAYZpF.jpg)
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: wheatrich on October 27, 2014, 05:14:22 pm
everdrive has the potential to modify the rom itself (and jimbo said it himself, if he knew how to make it so things like the FR were in the right spot every time he'd 100% do it), that's why it's banned.  It's a preemptive strike.

it's also not quite the same running pal through the ntsc system as pal is on pal (pal system through my setup is in color but through the everdrive it's stuck in black and white, only different variables are the console + everdrive, everything else is the same), but I have no idea what if any it has on the gameplay itself.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: RWG on October 27, 2014, 05:39:45 pm
"the cheat stick" is not capable of doing things a normal game stick can't do
an everdrive IS capable of doing things a normal cart can't do

the end
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Boss on October 27, 2014, 06:01:33 pm
All I can say is there's always PD that doesn't ever have these kinds of issues.  :kappa:
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Infected Mind on October 27, 2014, 06:10:44 pm
jim gettin so salty hes gonna be on the next bag of Lays Salt and Vinegar Chips

lolling pretty hard.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: AZ on October 27, 2014, 06:37:02 pm
All I can say is there's always PD that doesn't ever have these kinds of issues.  :kappa:

jim gettin so salty hes gonna be on the next bag of Lays Salt and Vinegar Chips

lolling pretty hard.

lol didn't see this until now
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: sweetener on October 27, 2014, 10:58:37 pm
an everdrive IS capable of doing things a normal cart can do

what?

edit: never mind
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: SimThreat on October 27, 2014, 11:52:50 pm
Jimbo's stubborness on this topic makes ghee-ghus look like Jim Carrey's character from Yes Man.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: RWG on October 28, 2014, 12:05:30 am
oops dsx, messed up my cans and can'ts
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Carathorn on October 28, 2014, 05:11:32 am
cheatstick

noun
  1. Penis of someone who has been unfaithful in marriage
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: SgtRaven on October 28, 2014, 09:56:39 am
Modifying the N64 controller by putting in a stick that wasn't originally meant to be in the controller is a modification. It causes the controller to do things that the controller originally couldn't do. It is also a slippery slope to N64 controller board modification that can also make the controller do things it isn't supposed to. I would know this. I own a controller with a modified board. I do not use it in competition. Allowing the controllers to be modded and an Everdrive to not be used is completely silly and I will fight this point to the death that one is allowed and one isn't and that is wrong.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: OHMSS on October 28, 2014, 10:13:20 am
It causes the controller to do things that the controller originally couldn't do.
It is also a slippery slope to N64 controller board modification that can also make the controller do things it isn't supposed to.

Like? The only thing that comes to my mind that the original controller can't do is staying 10/10 for more than a week.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: SgtRaven on October 28, 2014, 12:47:48 pm
There are different types of analog sticks out there on the market that react differently. 4-way and 8-way sticks aren't all treated equally and the input that is registered can be different than what was originally in them. Boards can be modified to have the sensitivity/input changed by X%. Whether it's hitting max faster or keeping max going it can be done. I should talk to my buddy who tears these apart and does tests on them so I have actual tangible stuff to show instead of spewing out jibberish. He would also be able to explain the advantage a whole lot better than I can. I'm not against the use of the modded controllers. I am trying to show there isn't much difference between changing out the controller and changing out to an Everdrive. Not to mention the biggest flaw of it all is we can't hold people accountable on what they used anyway. If the fear is that RNG manipulation can happen on an Everdrive then I can accomplish the same exact thing and put it into a GE cart and boom. Modified Goldeneye Cart. There is no standardization to what is allowed and what isn't and being able to use the Everdrive (which I do in Kart 64) has helped me become a better player and motivates me to play. (NOT to cheat).
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: wheatrich on October 28, 2014, 01:34:30 pm
"If the fear is that RNG manipulation can happen on an Everdrive then I can accomplish the same exact thing and put it into a GE cart and boom."

This is only true in the technical sense and not the realistic sense.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Smit on October 28, 2014, 04:08:07 pm
People who use gamecube sticks are willing to put in the extra effort/money to push the game to its extremes. They are the real MVPS!
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: wheatrich on October 28, 2014, 07:33:51 pm
People who use gamecube sticks are willing to put in the extra effort/money to push the game to its extremes. They are the real MVPS!

in before clamoring of pressing the circuit board strats
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Thiradell on October 28, 2014, 10:28:14 pm
"there isn't much difference between changing out the controller and changing out to an Everdrive" there is a difference such that the two are literally incomparable

http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/
http://goldeneye007.detstar.com/GESE/

From a message Woll sent me:

"The unique thing about Goldeneye/Perfect Dark versus other Nintendo 64 games is that there is actually an editor for them (the GE/PD Setup Editor) that takes all the technical knowledge involved in hacking and simplifies it to the point that anyone with the most basic knowledge of programming can figure out what's going on behind the scenes.  If you wanted me to hack a GS code to make it so guards don't roll/sidestep/hop on Silo, I'd get back to you in a few weeks/months/never depending on if I decided to ask or try to hack it myself.  But if you wanted to play a version of GE in which guards don't roll/sidestep/hop on Silo, I could probably get back to you within the hour with a hacked rom generated by the Setup Editor.  It's that easy.  And on top of that, it's not something that would be noticed in a WR run, because the expectation in a WR run is that it is a run in which a guard doesn't get in the player's way and cause them to lose their pace.  So unless the person were streaming and people were paying very close attention, it would never get caught.  And yet it'd be as fake as Henning, basically just producing the perfect run by eliminating the luck factor.  Hell even beyond the luck factor, it'd be trivial to remove a second from the Natalya protect..a quarter second here, a quarter second there.."

The next topic about anything related to Everdrive vs. anything else is getting locked. Sorry but this is not the first or second or third time I've mentioned this
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: youseinthehouse on October 28, 2014, 10:44:26 pm
sry could you give me the link again?
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Jimbo on October 28, 2014, 11:05:42 pm
So a guy who has been around the Elite since the stone ages, has every single one of his PRs proven, contributes hundreds if not thousands of man hours to the Elite is restricted of the ability to play PAL relatively cheaply because it's a lot easier to cheat? We already have an Everdrive WR on the rankings!

Guess I'll have to fly to Europe or buy PAL *everything* to some day make this work.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: sweetener on October 28, 2014, 11:06:42 pm
you could probably buy pal ge/console/tv for less than an everdrive costs
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: deletedprofile.u on October 28, 2014, 11:10:02 pm
you could probably buy pal ge/console/tv for less than an everdrive costs
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Thiradell on October 28, 2014, 11:41:38 pm
So a guy who has been around the Elite since the stone ages, has every single one of his PRs proven, contributes hundreds if not thousands of man hours to the Elite is restricted of the ability to play PAL relatively cheaply because it's a lot easier to cheat? We already have an Everdrive WR on the rankings!

Guess I'll have to fly to Europe or buy PAL *everything* to some day make this work.

Just think of it as a hack, Jim. Like playing with Bond Invisible on. As was pointed out, just buy the PAL stuff and save yourself the controversy.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: wheatrich on October 29, 2014, 12:12:13 am
for canadians here's a PAL GE to start out for anyone crazy enough to go down this road
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GoldenEye-007-Nintendo-64-1997-PAL-REGION-/221587753368?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item3397a8c998

Jimbo's so restricted from PAL, he borrowed it from someone for months once, couldn't figure out how to get it to work in 5 seconds, so he gave up.   Oh and I have one too (that's right multiple people closer to you than you'll be driving for MN meet for) and asked you over the summer if you wanted to borrow it and would explain how to get it setup like mine b/c of all those hours of hard work in the-elite.  You didn't want it then either, so shut up.

and jimbo, if you buy the stuff, all you need is the bare console and the game.  The expansion pack/controllers/and both cords (power and the 3 prong) all work for both ntsc and pal systems.  if you go the TV route as well b/c it's 30 seconds easier to setup that's up to you.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Jimbo on October 29, 2014, 12:52:26 am
Yes I borrowed Ngamer's PAL stuff and tried playing it on a cheap converter and realized that was impossible. Weatherton told me at the time that it cost him around $200 to make PAL work smoothly with his setup, and since then other methods of playing have been found.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: flukey lukey on October 29, 2014, 03:03:40 am
Wody got PAL working in a couple of days and not much money

you're all whiny bitches
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Carathorn on October 29, 2014, 05:04:21 am
Let's all face it, there is no use in speedrunning GE any longer. It has become too easy to cheat, you can't trust a single WR any longer. People are replacing thumbsticks for better comfort while playing the already retarded 2.x strategies, Any luck factored/once in a thousand situations can be reproduced 1 on1 using simulators, I could go on for ages how useless running GE is. It is a waste of time once you realise that your hard earned WRs are tied by guys who reprogram the game within the hour. Give me one reason why it isn't already happening.

My suggestion is that we delete the GE rankings, the GE boards and cancel the GE AGDQ race, and all move on to playing Perfect Dark. This game is amazing and more complicated, there are no editors that will ruin the fun and there is no 2.x that will give you any advantage! What are you all waiting for?
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: sweetener on October 29, 2014, 05:07:13 am
the GE editor is for PD as well
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Carathorn on October 29, 2014, 05:08:53 am
good luck reprogramming elvis
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: speedruntrainer on October 29, 2014, 06:11:44 am
Let's all face it, there is no use in speedrunning GE any longer. It has become too easy to cheat, you can't trust a single WR any longer. People are replacing thumbsticks for better comfort while playing the already retarded 2.x strategies, Any luck factored/once in a thousand situations can be reproduced 1 on1 using simulators, I could go on for ages how useless running GE is. It is a waste of time once you realise that your hard earned WRs are tied by guys who reprogram the game within the hour. Give me one reason why it isn't already happening.

This is the reason why GE is OVERactive and barely anyone plays PD




 :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik:
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: RWG on October 29, 2014, 06:26:02 am
everyone in the elite cheats

no one is any good at the games

everyone can only cheat so they are forced to play GE

PD which necessitates people to play has no activity because you can't cheat there and no one is capable of actually playing it

OK (ok)
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: flukey lukey on October 29, 2014, 05:12:35 pm
And here I was planning on slipping a DVD of a prerecorded 21:46 in for the AGDQ Race (thnx Henning)

:nesquik:

:nesquik:

   :nesquik:
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: wheatrich on October 29, 2014, 07:25:14 pm
Yes I borrowed Ngamer's PAL stuff and tried playing it on a cheap converter and realized that was impossible. Weatherton told me at the time that it cost him around $200 to make PAL work smoothly with his setup, and since then other methods of playing have been found.

He didn't care to listen to me either.  At least you're in good company.  You don't need a TV though if you have a dazzle and don't mind running it through your computer screen, that's the main thing since dazzle has resale value and the TV is an albatross.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: wheatrich on October 29, 2014, 07:27:47 pm
Give me one reason why it isn't already happening.

The posts on this board greatly suggest the lack of intellect to do it.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Icy on October 29, 2014, 07:49:09 pm
You don't need a TV though if you have a dazzle and don't mind running it through your computer screen, that's the main thing since dazzle has resale value and the TV is an albatross.

That's actually a really good idea. While possible latency could be a small problem to make use of PAL for Train, Jungle, etc, that'd be greatly helpful for Deep Sea and Maian SOS in Perfect Dark.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: deletedprofile.u on October 29, 2014, 07:57:23 pm
Playing through AmaRec/ your computer screen is a huge mistake. It's the equivalent of playing on an LCD TV. I remember when I started playing how my LCD and AmaRec were identically synced up. Now with the CRT it's quite a significant difference.

The reason people want PAL is for use of higher level play, so it'd be a backwards move to not have a proper TV to play it through, imo.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Wody on October 29, 2014, 08:27:29 pm
Im linking you guys to a website with multisystem CRTs

http://www.samstores.com/search.html?recommend=&brand=&cat=388&search=1&maxrows=&action=products



I found mine for 20 dollars on ebay and it was the only one on ebay and happened to be in my state. Thats insanely lucky. I myself would still pay the price this website wants.The tvs are around $190 for 21 inch. Or you can get a 14inch for like $130. Some of the TVS also have input output av slots like my current multisystem crt does! so those tvs are sick.


http://www.samstores.com/product-panasonic-tc-21z88-21-multi-system-tv-for-110-220-volts-2411.html

look at the perks of that tv and tell me you wouldnt pay 200 for a piece of gold like that. Those tvs will not be around one day and to gamers like us would absolutely sky rocket in value and in general.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Infected Mind on October 30, 2014, 01:46:34 am
cost me 400 dollars to get one shipped here lolllll
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Icy on October 30, 2014, 02:27:47 am
Since we seem to be allowing anything that doesn't change or do anything that can't normally be done, I tinkered with disassembling one of my controllers and took out the spring inside the controller stick box. Putting it back together, it works all the same, except now my controller stick is entirely loose (ie, nothing's pulling the stick back into neutral position). With this, I can use 2.X without a rubberband, and also treat it as a GC stick. I just move the stick into any direction and it just stays there without me holding it.

Now obviously, I want to play with integrity and with nothing that's considered illegal, but by the definitions people have given, this controller is entirely allowed, yet works as both a GC stick and rubberbanded controller, without having to buy anything either. In fact, it might be even better since there's no resistance when changing strafes with it, and the stick can't get worn out anymore.

I'm also obviously not going to use it to get new times, but if this is allowed, we start to go down a slippery slope of what's legal and what's not. Would for example, remapping the buttons of a controller for ease and comfort be allowed since it's not technically changing anything a player could do?

I'm personally not taking either side on what should or shouldn't be allowed, but we need a strict definition that covers any loopholes.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: SgtRaven on October 30, 2014, 12:11:38 pm
What Everdrive WR is on the Rankings? Clearly it shouldn't be allowed. Shouldn't the Elite Council or the Proof Mod do something about it? Is there no Justice?
I still want to know how the people against the use of the Everdrive plan on policing whether one was used or not. If someone can answer me that question I will drop my entire argument over why it is ridiculously stupid that it isn't allowed. 

Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: OHMSS on October 30, 2014, 12:36:30 pm
What Everdrive WR is on the Rankings?

SRT's Dam 53
http://rankings.the-elite.net/~speedruntrainer/time/70907

An exception was made because it wasn't discussed back then, attempts were streamed and it's one of the best GE videos ever :)
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: SgtRaven on October 30, 2014, 01:20:26 pm
Haha oh yeah I've watched that vid a bunch. Didn't know it was on Everdrive. I wonder why he used that instead of regular GE. I didn't think there were any region specific advantages on that level.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Illu on October 30, 2014, 03:22:26 pm
I hope what Icy said works to get full speed, wouldn't need to spend extra money on GC sticks.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Spec on October 30, 2014, 03:42:38 pm
I think it would only be useful if it increases performance for the specific player, cause the stick worns out almost the same way, and you would have to replace it eventually, might as well by a foreverlasting GC stick for some irrelbucks
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Icy on October 30, 2014, 04:53:35 pm
Yeah it gives full speed after CCing it in the opposite direction. I duped Streets 1:14 with auto-2.X and without rubberbands to test it. It's also really easy to do manual 2.X with it, so long as you don't let it slide out of place. You can of course still hold it in the direction you want, or just move the stick there and leave it. Could even just tilt the controller in the correct direction, lol.

The inside of the controller stick box is really interesting with how it was made. There are two curved pieces that fit on top of each other in a smaller white box, and both of them have small "teeth" on one side. The teeth move a wheel up and down, and with the stick between the two pieces can make the wheels go in all four directions. The reason why sticks seemingly get worn out is that there's a spring that's pushed into the centers of the plastic pieces to hold them in place, and I suppose through a ton of usage, the spring weakens and can no longer keep them centered. In my main controller, I adjusted the spring inside, and now the stick is 10/10, fresh out of the box quality (time for Archives 17 :v ).

So for people that want to go the cheap route and are good with taking apart and putting things back together, I'd suggest having the first controller have a superb spring to give the most force into keeping the stick neutral, and the second controller to have no spring at all to do all the 2.X shenanigans.

That's of course if this is allowed. If it gets the green light, I'm totally using it, but again, it's kind of on the borderline of what should and shouldn't be legal.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Spec on October 30, 2014, 06:18:41 pm
It's not just the spring, all those parts that suffer heavy fricction contribute to worn it out (black curved pieces, the stick itself, bottom of the little box...)
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Icy on October 30, 2014, 07:20:17 pm
Okay, so it's not going to last until the sun explodes, but adding some more life to old controllers is nice.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Thiradell on October 30, 2014, 07:59:47 pm
That's fine Icy
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Basler on October 31, 2014, 05:27:38 am
It's not just the spring, all those parts that suffer heavy fricction contribute to worn it out (black curved pieces, the stick itself, bottom of the little box...)

this

If you open up a worn out stick the first time, there will be a lot of powder in there, that's all the plastic you have grinded away during its lifetime.

The black curved pieces cease to fit snuggly eventually. Sadly, eventhough it's clear what the problem is, I haven't managed to get a stick up to par again without it feeling kinda weird after.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: DavidK5 on November 01, 2014, 12:31:50 pm
Random thought:

With stuff like 3d printing becoming more and more accessible these days, I wonder if it would be possible to use parts from a brand new control stick to create a schematic or mold that you could use to make new parts. So when your controller gets worn down, just use a 3d printer to make replacement parts, and in theory, the result should be a control stick that feels brand new.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Basler on November 01, 2014, 12:51:26 pm
That's a great point actually. I don't know how precisely a 3D printer could make these things, especially the small teeth of the black bendy things.

If some can, then I don't see why that wouldn't work.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Smit on November 01, 2014, 12:57:26 pm
I will send Jim a cheatstick so he will shut up. Ok?
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: DYM on November 01, 2014, 01:16:12 pm
mate
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: flukey lukey on November 01, 2014, 07:11:29 pm
Haha oh yeah I've watched that vid a bunch. Didn't know it was on Everdrive. I wonder why he used that instead of regular GE. I didn't think there were any region specific advantages on that level.

you've got to be kidding me mate.. Dam is THE most classic PAL disadvantaged level in Goldeneye

hands down
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: RWG on November 01, 2014, 07:36:18 pm
way to take your latest board name from Taylor Swift.

Not sure if I should be mad or change mine to Fearless in hopes that the next board name trend will be "Taylor Swift album names."

edit - done

now we just need "Red", "Speak Now" and "Taylor Swift".
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: CreepingDeath007 on November 02, 2014, 01:21:45 am
Random thought:

With stuff like 3d printing becoming more and more accessible these days, I wonder if it would be possible to use parts from a brand new control stick to create a schematic or mold that you could use to make new parts. So when your controller gets worn down, just use a 3d printer to make replacement parts, and in theory, the result should be a control stick that feels brand new.

This would be awesome if it works.

I found this... http://www.shapeways.com/model/373538/n64-joystick-links.html
but the comments seem to suggest they don't work good.

http://smashboards.com/threads/3d-printed-n64-joystick-parts.364086/
Here's a Smash Boards discussion of them.  A guy near the bottom apparently got them and said they were garbage as well.  There's some other interesting links posted in here too though.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Spec on November 02, 2014, 01:56:03 am
If you're gonna print brand new parts you have to print both gears and the stick. If any of those are missing, there will be inconsistencies between the worn out parts and the printed ones.

I saw a guy on Brazilian advertising (Mercado Livre) who tailors those parts (didnt test it though, might in the future if he is still around). I think that might be the future, it's just a matter of getting the right materials and optimization. If the little white box of the analog could be printed that would be awesome as well.
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Troublesome Moral Code on February 23, 2015, 05:04:06 pm
Cheatstick WRs should have an asterisk beside them.
(https://i.imgur.com/WbaJjsa.gif)
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: hotshott on February 23, 2015, 05:17:09 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/WbaJjsa.gif)
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Spec on February 23, 2015, 06:25:32 pm
Cheatstick WRs should have an asterisk beside them.
(https://i.imgur.com/WbaJjsa.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/WbaJjsa.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/WbaJjsa.gif)
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: deletedprofile.u on February 25, 2015, 02:38:50 pm
Reprogram that cartridge, it's a Mark 2 and should be compatible.  :kappa:
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: Icy on February 25, 2015, 04:51:29 pm
Reprogram that cartridge, it's a Mark 2 and should be compatible.  :kappa:

 :v :v :v :v :v
Title: Re: Why the hell are we allowing cheat sticks?
Post by: speedruntrainer on February 26, 2015, 03:50:33 am
Reprogram that cartridge, it's a Mark 2 and should be compatible.  :kappa:

LOOOOOL :nesquik:
So true!