take it down boys
Was there anything at all behind Berube tying this record? If there's like some huge history or whatever evidence that makes the time more believeable then there's a case for letting it in, otherwise, if it was just him saying "hey guys I got dam 53 ^^" or some bullshit, not removing it is just absolutely ridiculous.
Fairly simple decision isn't it?
Proof or GTFO.
Yes, Dan Berube here, I heard this shit was going on again. I really don't understand why you people continually bring this up again and again, the most vehement of whom seem to be people who joined the community in the last 5 years and should really keep their mouths shut as they weren't around when I tied Bosshardt's record.
I had only tried speed-running on about 5 different levels at the time, and had made like 25 posts. I didn't realize the importance or the standard of taping runs when I dedicated myself to getting 0:53, nor did the television in my room have taping capabilities. It wasn't until later I figured out how to do it. I sent like 10 0:54 runs to NGamer afterwards, one of which would've been a 0:53 with a better gate, and the screen clearly lists 0:53 on the end screen. Not complete proof but it's something.
The decision was made to keep it by the person in charge back then, and should be respected. I'm amazed at the arrogance of the newcomers on this site that you think it wasn't deliberated on before and needs to be now. Isn't the record so common now you just list a number instead of individual players? Why is it so unbelievable I could've gotten the time?
Anyway myself and God know I nailed that 0:53, sorry if it means so much to you to have to take down my accomplishment because it keeps you up at night. I'm deeply sad for you.
Dig up the old N64 and start streaming big dog. It's like riding a bike and shouldn't take too long to dupe.
It has nothing to do with if you achieved it or not, it has to do with there being no video proof for the public to see. I don't care if you got it. I don't even care if i saw you get it live back then. There is no video of the run. Sure, i believe you. But there is still no vid.
You're a lazy fuck. Dupe it. It's a cake time and there is even 2.x control style now making it pathetic easy.
Case closed.
just because something was approved of, decided upon and allowed at one point "a few years ago" doesn't mean it still flies today.
It has nothing to do with if you achieved it or not, it has to do with there being no video proof for the public to see. I don't care if you got it. I don't even care if i saw you get it live back then. There is no video of the run. Sure, i believe you. But there is still no vid.
You're a lazy fuck. Dupe it. It's a cake time and there is even 2.x control style now making it pathetic easy.
Case closed.
Hitler did stuff that was allowed in 1939How would they charged him in 1939 when he was at the height of his national support and possessed such a large standing army? The Allied forces would've still had to defeat him first in order to position him in a criminal court.
in the later 40s and 50s people were like "hey that stuff wasn't cool, we're going to charge you and your cronies with war crimes now."
Who the f*ck are you, you harping c*nt?
Yes, because him calling me a "lazy f*ck" without any provocation or previous communication with me is something I should take as a jubilant welcome.Who the f*ck are you, you harping c*nt?
this isnt the kind of attitude that helps your cause
FFS Woody I laughed louder than jesus here do you want me to wake up my neighbors?Yes, Dan Berube here, I heard this shit was going on again. I really don't understand why you people continually bring this up again and again, the most vehement of whom seem to be people who joined the community in the last 5 years and should really keep their mouths shut as they weren't around when I tied Bosshardt's record.
I had only tried speed-running on about 5 different levels at the time, and had made like 25 posts. I didn't realize the importance or the standard of taping runs when I dedicated myself to getting 0:53, nor did the television in my room have taping capabilities. It wasn't until later I figured out how to do it. I sent like 10 0:54 runs to NGamer afterwards, one of which would've been a 0:53 with a better gate, and the screen clearly lists 0:53 on the end screen. Not complete proof but it's something.
The decision was made to keep it by the person in charge back then, and should be respected. I'm amazed at the arrogance of the newcomers on this site that you think it wasn't deliberated on before and needs to be now. Isn't the record so common now you just list a number instead of individual players? Why is it so unbelievable I could've gotten the time?
Anyway myself and God know I nailed that 0:53, sorry if it means so much to you to have to take down my accomplishment because it keeps you up at night. I'm deeply sad for you.
I know man I feel you.I told the-elite I got all three 45s on egypt last week, tied train 58,silo 100 and noone believes me.
(https://p.gr-assets.com/540x540/fit/hostedimages/1397094288/9230164.gif)
So we'll take down Marc's Dam times and some of Clemens' times? Because those clearly violate the current proof policy too. Trust me, I understand wanting to take the time down, but where does it stop?
Yes, Dan Berube here, I heard this shit was going on again. I really don't understand why you people continually bring this up again and again, the most vehement of whom seem to be people who joined the community in the last 5 years and should really keep their mouths shut as they weren't around when I tied Bosshardt's record.
I had only tried speed-running on about 5 different levels at the time, and had made like 25 posts. I didn't realize the importance or the standard of taping runs when I dedicated myself to getting 0:53, nor did the television in my room have taping capabilities. It wasn't until later I figured out how to do it. I sent like 10 0:54 runs to NGamer afterwards, one of which would've been a 0:53 with a better gate, and the screen clearly lists 0:53 on the end screen. Not complete proof but it's something.
The decision was made to keep it by the person in charge back then, and should be respected. I'm amazed at the arrogance of the newcomers on this site that you think it wasn't deliberated on before and needs to be now. Isn't the record so common now you just list a number instead of individual players? Why is it so unbelievable I could've gotten the time?
Anyway myself and God know I nailed that 0:53, sorry if it means so much to you to have to take down my accomplishment because it keeps you up at night. I'm deeply sad for you.
I know man I feel you.I told the-elite I got all three 45s on egypt last week, tied train 58,silo 100 and noone believes me.
So we'll take down Marc's Dam times and some of Clemens' times? Because those clearly violate the current proof policy too. Trust me, I understand wanting to take the time down, but where does it stop?
Don't fall into the trap of trying to use 'one' principle to dictate decisions. It's not just 'one' thing that would make us want to remove the time. I don't really know how many times people can state that.
can you stop covering for this fucking loser and show us the god damn 53.looool golden post
You're a lazy fuck. Dupe it. It's a cake time and there is even 2.x control style now making it pathetic easy.
can you stop covering for this fucking loser and show us the god damn 53.
so has the 53 been removed yet?
all talk no action
That's all we ever are sometimes. I have the power to zap the time from the ranks but I know exactly what will happen.
pretty sure more people support removing this time than keeping it, why is it still there?
Who is Thiradell to say what goes or doesn't go on the elite rankings? What power does he actually have? Who gave him this power?
then when it's time to vote random dinosaurs like Infil, Youse and YE vote to oppose whatever change was going to be made anyways.
then when it's time to vote random dinosaurs like Infil, Youse and YE vote to oppose whatever change was going to be made anyways.
loooooooooooooooool
I got 0:53 Dam
I got dam 53
The Council is completely useless. It's usually Goose, Cara, Jimbo and Thingy discussing stuff and then when it's time to vote random dinosaurs like Infil, Youse and YE vote to oppose whatever change was going to be made anyways. Come only made the Council to appease Cara and I one night in 2012. It holds no real power.
Dan's post was terrible lol. Coming back just to say how pointless and meaningless the community is.
Do you support Dan Berube's Dam 0:53 being removed from the rankings? - NO
Explain why? - I think we need to follow the established rules of the site instead of just acting on things based on who has the loudest voice.
http://rankings.the-elite.net/proof#Subsection_iv.29_GrandfatheringQuoteCurrent significant world records (set before December 31, 2013) will be grandfathered.
There will be no need to duplicate WRs which are in bad quality.
change the rules.
The council will vote on any necessary matters and come to a consensus decision. The votes and decision will be made public to the elite after decision is made. When a decision is needed, there will be a 72 hour voting period. Any member of the council who does not cast a vote in that period will not have their vote count.
This policy is subject to change at any time due to constant improvements in technology or unusual circumstances that could lead to situations not outlined within. All changes will be discussed within The Elite Council with the ultimate goal being what is best for the rankings and community of The-Elite.net.
grandfathering refers to video quality rather than the complete nonexistence of proofQuoteThere will be no need to duplicate WRs which are in bad quality.
Instead of doing this in a public "power play" topic, why not start a topic among the Elite Council asking to remove the time? It seems like the rules indicate they could vote and make a clear decision. I'm guessing they would vote to remove the time (I probably would).
I'd bet $5000 that none of Infil, YE, Youse, Come nor Thiradell would vote to remove Berube's 53.
Where are some of those guys? :-\
they ought to be showin up
*cough* ngamer *cough*
Infilament: so you're going to handle the worst case
Infilament: then someone will talk about the second worst case
Infilament: and it won't end until all unproven times are removed
Infilament: imo either just remove all unproven times and piss off a ton of people
COME as u r337: experts war 54 is a better example tbh
Infilament: or just accept that it doesn't really affect anything and move on
Thiradell: if it was a case-by-case basis, it was case-by-case 10 years ago
Thiradell: if you're going to change it now, it has to be due to a sweeping rule
ngonhislaptop: case by case means we have to spend 4 hours arguing every time something comes up, versus having clear rules written down that we can apply to everything and everyone's aware of up front
DKK5: If it's not clear in the policy maybe that should be, uh, fixed
DKK5: The only reason that I suggest this is because, in the past, people have been satisfied with council decisions. So putting this to an official vote would help put the issue to rest one way or the other
Thiradell: my first thought is being in favor of taking it down
Thiradell: then I filter that thought through the things that matter
Thiradell: in the end it doesn't really matter what my thought is
ngonhislaptop: for real though how much does 2.x cut on Dam A, a half second?
Jim Barrett: .3
ngonhislaptop: hmmm could be my target on the uh, 21st, is that the day?
Jim Barrett: Jan 23rd
Anyway, regarding Shadow's post, i don't mind if all my old crappy ntsc videos that are still on the rankings including Dam SA 1:16 got removed (Let 155 stay though would ya :pimp: :kappa:) I actually encourage to remove them. It's mind blowing how my runs were allowed at the time. I told AZ a long time ago to remove them, but he wouldn't/couldn't. On the top of my head they are Dam 116, S1 SA 148, B1 SA 23, Frigate 23 and SA 102, S2 49 and 00A 126, B2 00A 0:55, All Archives, Caverns Agent 101. That would also give me something to play/motivate me to dupe these times with captured quality.
Axel, could you clarify what you meant. Some seem to think you're saying "yeah, let's be consistent and remove everything". I thought you were saying "Regardless of my feelings on this particular record, let's be objective and ask ourselves where this will end, if we're going to be consistent."
Why is everyone making a fuss about a single 53 but noone cares about Glen Stevens, Trent, Lanfredi being fairly high ranked with absolutely shitty proof?
Axel Z - NO (though he was "removed" from the council after the Henning incident, he still shows up in topics and votes occasionally... that shows you the structure of the elite council...)
If public opinion of a council member becomes negative, discussion will be held in public forum to remove or replace members of the council.
Removing ALL times which were WRs at the time they were submitted but never had a video provided.
This would include Berube's Dam 53, Expert's WAR PA 54, Matis' Archives 16 and a handful of others. The impact it has on the ranks is likely minimal.
I would like to know what all unproven WR's there are (GE and PD), and the impact it would make on the elite.
What if we changed the criteria to "All times which are still WRs or were once claimed as untied WRs which never had videos?" How many records would that affect?
About old proof policies: If "video" wasn't always the standard, do we have an archive of picture proofs?
If you know how to look down, Runway A 23 becomes very easy, even if it was 2001 or so.
If you know how to look down, Runway A 23 becomes very easy, even if it was 2001 or so.
lookdown was invented in 2002 :kappa:
#tyrannosaurus-rekt
definitely a top tier image in elite history
(https://i.imgur.com/75SSWhg.jpg)
image credit goes to Dugg
WAKE UP SHEEPLE this is all just a Coup de Grace by goose to get more power and influence by getting people to side with him!!!
Clark created the website. I'm pretty sure that's the equivalent of God when it comes to companies, organizations, communities, etc. When you create something you can do whatever you want with it.
I would like to know what all unproven WR's there are (GE and PD), and the impact it would make on the elite.
A rough guess would be around 1100.
The rankings should just stay as they are. No, they're not perfect
Removing ALL times which were WRs at the time they were submitted but never had a video provided.
Grandfathering is good in the sense that it takes into account the technical limitations of the past, when today's quality video wasn't available and VHS was still the standard. However, to me it seems it'd be going too far to include times that have no proof at all, even if the non-existing policy of the past allowed it. We need to set a reasonable standard and keep the current rankings as trustworthy as possible, without erasing all of the history of this site.
Sorry Goose, it's not my intention to upset you (and never is). I was trying to be realistic about the monumental task of digging up all the unproven WRs. You seem to read everything I say with the worst connotations possible. Also this entire issue has nothing to do with how I treat anybody; your singlemindedness to redirect everything to that makes it tough to have any real discussion.
I guess I probably won't post anymore because it just seems to stir up trouble, and I don't want that. If somebody comes in and actually looks at my post (i.e. not taking one line entirely out of context), I'm happy to respond to you. Feel free to PM or IM me any time as well. My opinion has been made clear.
It's not that much of a "monumental" task. Going level-by-level, whenever there's free time, it's a few days work (even faster with more people). I've done worse than it while analyzing SM64 castle movement for 120 star, checking for video times is just copying and pasting information. Having times marked as "video proven", "unproved" (and perhaps picture proofed only or endscreen?) would've come handy in this situation, that can be useful for future oranization on the ranks. :p
- I'm actually in favor of Third taking down the 0:53 "temporarily" so that the newbs chill out
AGAINSTAll those arguments are either tangent or personal opinions.
- removing it would restore historical accuracy to the site's rankings (history is something we pride ourselves with greatly here with the database and all) as well as restore prestige to Dam 53, one of the most significant records in elite history
- Berube has not been seen for years and likely does not care at all about this time anymore
- Boss is still around and likely DOES care about the historical accuracy of his untied
- deletion of this time would be like exonerating a criminal who was found not guilty years later. This would help to give closure to Boss and anyone else deeply involved in the situation
- correcting past mistakes is actually a good thing and gives precedent that we can always go back and change a decision when needed
FOR
- "it was decided upon a long time ago and should remain up"
- perhaps some belief that some higher ups in the community still care about the time and want it up there? (which is obviously a flawed argument given that Clark is the highest up and is in favour of the time being taken down.)
You wanna question 2003's proof policy and demand videos for very, very, very old times, go ahead (ironically, that would actually be PREJUDICIAL against the rankings history). But many times that had, for example, only a picture endscreen for proof, etc, would be vanished just because, suddenly, we decided to demand higher standards for the 12-years-ago records.
Have you got anything else to suspect that he didn't get it or just the video demand? It is not misleading, it's making a point and being congruent with it. Videos weren't needed back then, why would we want them now and why only on berube's 53?You wanna question 2003's proof policy and demand videos for very, very, very old times, go ahead (ironically, that would actually be PREJUDICIAL against the rankings history). But many times that had, for example, only a picture endscreen for proof, etc, would be vanished just because, suddenly, we decided to demand higher standards for the 12-years-ago records.
Note the red herring. We're discussing Berube's 53 not other times. Stop misleading people.
So we'll take down Marc's Dam times and some of Clemens' times? Because those clearly violate the current proof policy too. Trust me, I understand wanting to take the time down, but where does it stop?
Don't fall into the trap of trying to use 'one' principle to dictate decisions. It's not just 'one' thing that would make us want to remove the time. I don't really know how many times people can state that.
It is several reasons. 1. standard deviation between the time in question and the other times, 2. the time is not proven with video, 3. the date the time was achieved 4. The significance of the date/time achieved.
You ask where it stops but there really aren't many times that also meet these criteria. Dave/Marc times do violate current proof policy however the standard deviation factor isn't there and marc has videos even if they are shit. Pretty sure Dave also did provide vids at one point but they are deleted now. So completely different scenario.
Reread the thread. Funny enough, the "if one should, all others should" was something massively brought up by the AGAINST people. Saying that it's "misleading" can be kinda ironic... :pSo we'll take down Marc's Dam times and some of Clemens' times? Because those clearly violate the current proof policy too. Trust me, I understand wanting to take the time down, but where does it stop?
Don't fall into the trap of trying to use 'one' principle to dictate decisions. It's not just 'one' thing that would make us want to remove the time. I don't really know how many times people can state that.
It is several reasons. 1. standard deviation between the time in question and the other times, 2. the time is not proven with video, 3. the date the time was achieved 4. The significance of the date/time achieved.
You ask where it stops but there really aren't many times that also meet these criteria. Dave/Marc times do violate current proof policy however the standard deviation factor isn't there and marc has videos even if they are shit. Pretty sure Dave also did provide vids at one point but they are deleted now. So completely different scenario.
By suggesting that if you remove 53 you will have to remove other times is 100% misleading because this particular time has features that others do not. They aren't the same thing and it's not the same discussion.
I'm the only one here who never played GE or PD. I guess I win?
Yeah it doesn't really matter to cover an individual point. You can cover each separate point individually and act like that means something... when in reality it doesn't. The thing about this particular time is all of them combined.I really want to get the feeling of what meaning "Dam 53" possibly had, but there's still no reason why some irrel angle shooter who played 15% of the levels seriously couldn't have grinded for it and got it. And however big was its perceived value back then is not a solid basis to judge if the guy was capable of or not to get the time. After all, a guy with the name of Denis Lucid *supposedly* exists, right? (just to mention an example)
Well the discussion isn't about 'did he get the time', it's about 'can we allow the time on the rankings without proof'. So your argument about his ability to grind for the time and get it I feel is not relevant. Dennis Lucid actually did provide videos for his insane times. The discussion really isn't about if he's capable, but rather about did he prove he was capable. The problem is that given the strength of his other times 53 is way above what he previously achieved. It's ok to theorize about probability but there is no evidence either way.
In response to Dsx, didn't you read the other topic? It's pretty obvious that the majority support the time being removed and it probably will be removed. So we actually likely will 'win'. Atm I'm against the red herrings such as 'we need to change the proof policy', or 'we can't take action because of the proof policy', or 'if we remove this time we need to remove this other time', etc logical fallacies that should be rebutted.
Edit: Ok so whether or not he is capable IS relevant, but his other times don't give enough evidence for this.
The council thread will be made to remove all current WRs which have no video proof. This will take care of the 53 and other stuff like Matis' 16 and some Duel 9s will go too.
All current Perfect Dark WRs have videos, except for Duel.
Inkosi, DSX your dumb posts are what makes this stupid. Some people actually give a shit about the rankings. If you don't, definitely move along as you advise. Others who care to make a positive change can stay and discuss.
If Clemens' Egypt SA 0:45 gets removed, these clearly needs to as well.
My WRs youtube account was deleted in 2013 because of music copyright issue.
I just reuploaded the missing original vids:
Don't know if I can send the original files to Ax or anyone in charge to still have a back up proof. PM me.