The Elite Forum

Nonsense Time => FFA => Topic started by: Icy on December 10, 2017, 09:14:55 pm

Title: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Icy on December 10, 2017, 09:14:55 pm
Where da vids m8? Train 1:06 is pretty sick as a quick PR, especially since you're playing on NTSC. You're playing on console, right?
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: flicker on December 10, 2017, 09:40:52 pm
Pred he doesn't see this for 2 months after his times are backrolled
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Alka Maass on December 10, 2017, 10:02:30 pm
99% playing on emu or lying about times, should freeze his account imo until he responds about this
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Niiro Kitsune on December 10, 2017, 10:39:59 pm
should freeze his account imo until he responds about this
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: eastwood on December 11, 2017, 07:19:13 am
dat casual 60+ point time  :kappa:
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 11, 2017, 03:46:48 pm
Uploading when I get home daddy.
Out of town for work & I don't have wifi.

Just 60+, all points, or like every pb?
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 11, 2017, 03:47:45 pm
Pred he doesn't see this for 2 months after his times are backrolled
I agree
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: DYM on December 11, 2017, 04:12:59 pm
These REQUIRE proof anyhow:

Train Agent 1:06
Dam Agent 0:53
Silo 00 Agent 1:36
Dam Secret Agent 1:20

These would improve your credibility and are highly recommended:

Dam 00 Agent 2:08
Silo Secret Agent 1:22
Depot Secret Agent 0:47

The rest are not important.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 11, 2017, 04:14:51 pm
These REQUIRE proof anyhow:

Train Agent 1:06
Dam Agent 0:53
Silo 00 Agent 1:36
Dam Secret Agent 1:20

These would improve your credibility and are highly recommended:

Dam 00 Agent 2:08
Silo Secret Agent 1:22
Depot Secret Agent 0:47

The rest are not important.
Gotcha. Thank you
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: DYM on December 11, 2017, 04:15:34 pm
No problem. :)
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: SimThreat on December 12, 2017, 12:28:12 am
Out of town for work but posting new pr's   :thinking:
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 12, 2017, 12:37:48 am
Out of town for work but posting new pr's   :thinking:
I'm not aloud to play Goldeneye in the evenings?
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: flicker on December 12, 2017, 12:47:47 am
Out of town for work but posting new pr's   :thinking:
I'm not aloud to play Goldeneye in the evenings?

So you're doing the Jimbo strat of taking an entire GE setup out of town?
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 12, 2017, 12:52:32 am
Out of town for work but posting new pr's   :thinking:
I'm not aloud to play Goldeneye in the evenings?

So you're doing the Jimbo strat of taking an entire GE setup out of town?
Everywhere you go, son.
https://imgur.com/DsdahBH
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: SimThreat on December 12, 2017, 12:55:28 am
https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/car-super-mario/

Found link to picture source. Can we please ban/remove this troll already.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 12, 2017, 01:01:24 am
https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/car-super-mario/

Found link to picture source. Can we please band/remove this troll already.
Yeah? Clever boi.

Did you hurt yourself thinking to figure out that I wasn't playing on a backup camera monitor?
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: flicker on December 12, 2017, 01:03:21 am
LOLLLLLLLLL
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Rützou on December 12, 2017, 01:16:49 am
 :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: :nesquik: !
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 12, 2017, 09:34:13 am
Very nice community you boys have here.
Quite ideal to ban new members without a chance to honor the proof call because you're triggered.
Nice to see that your moderation is as professional and respectable as your proof standards   :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

11/10 -IGN

Glad you're enjoying your hobby.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: DYM on December 12, 2017, 09:56:24 am
For the record, I was not in favor of this ban.

However, at the same time, some people think (and justifiably so) you are acting like a smart-ass with your comments and are skeptical of your records because of the circumstances (playing during work trip, posting on a spree, etc).

You can still upload the videos I suggested and prove them wrong and perhaps, how they should be slightly more lenient with their moderation.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: flicker on December 12, 2017, 10:25:34 am
Look, man. Even though I think you're just spouting nonsense, I'll level with you.

If you are a real player, there's nothing stopping you from continuing to play Goldeneye, but your actions here have made the moderators distrust you and you have lost your privilege to post times on the rankings as a result. All your posted times are removed until you prove them by posting here with the videos. If you really want to make a statement, stop acting like an idiot, get some good times and post the videos here. A discussion about your unbanning would soon follow suit.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 12, 2017, 10:32:16 am
For the record, I was not in favor of this ban.

However, at the same time, some people think (and justifiably so) you are acting like a smart-ass with your comments and are skeptical of your records because of the circumstances (playing during work trip, posting on a spree, etc).

You can still upload the videos I suggested and prove them wrong and perhaps, how they should be slightly more lenient with their moderation.
I plan on doing this, but where do I put them since I don't have a times page?

Also I am curious about what rule I specifically broke to warrant a ban? I was pretty sure that everybody else gets a month to answer proof calls regardless, and that not honoring them results in your times being backrolled, not a ban.

As far as being a smart ass, yeah, I was.
Along with almost every other member of The Elite.

I feel like it would beneficial for the The Elite to agree on a set of rules as a community and apply them equally rather than treat them as if they are abstract and ban me because I triggered somebody without explicitly breaking a single rule.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 12, 2017, 10:33:27 am
Look, man. Even though I think you're just spouting nonsense, I'll level with you.

If you are a real player, there's nothing stopping you from continuing to play Goldeneye, but your actions here have made the moderators distrust you and you have lost your privilege to post times on the rankings as a result. All your posted times are removed until you prove them by posting here with the videos. If you really want to make a statement, stop acting like an idiot, get some good times and post the videos here. A discussion about your unbanning would soon follow suit.
Feel free to tell me which specific rule I broke instead of insulting me.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: flicker on December 12, 2017, 10:37:56 am
A rule does not have to be broken to warrant a banning.

The decision to ban was made after brief discussion within The-Elite Council.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 12, 2017, 10:51:20 am
A rule does not have to be broken to warrant a banning.

The decision to ban was made after brief discussion within The-Elite Council.
Clearly.
That is my point.
That's a very unprofessional way to moderate a community.
What you essentially just said is "We ban people just because we don't like them. They don't have to actually do anything wrong."
This also puts into question how 'legitimate' your rankings really are when you show that  your community bans users you don't like without cause.

Hard to have faith in a leaderboard when players who threaten the moderators times get banned.  :thinking: :thinking: :thinking:


Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: DYM on December 12, 2017, 10:56:14 am
Quote
I plan on doing this, but where do I put them since I don't have a times page?

I would suggest uploading them to a YouTube channel (make one if you don't already!) and posting the links to the videos in this thread. That'll resolve your issue.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 12, 2017, 10:58:18 am
Quote
I plan on doing this, but where do I put them since I don't have a times page?

I would suggest uploading them to a YouTube channel (make one if you don't already!) and posting the links to the videos in this thread.
Thank you very much!
You're genuinely helpful, and I appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt with the rest of this community insulting me <3
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: flicker on December 12, 2017, 10:59:26 am
Clearly.
That is my point.
That's a very unprofessional way to moderate a community.
What you essentially just said is "We ban people just because we don't like them. They don't have to actually do anything wrong."
This also puts into question how 'legitimate' your rankings really are when you show that  your community bans users you don't like without cause.

Hard to have faith in a leaderboard when players who threaten the moderators times get banned.  :thinking: :thinking: :thinking:

Terrible argument. A player who gets banned, but later proves themself, will have their ban overturned. It even happened to me.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 12, 2017, 11:01:48 am
Clearly.
That is my point.
That's a very unprofessional way to moderate a community.
What you essentially just said is "We ban people just because we don't like them. They don't have to actually do anything wrong."
This also puts into question how 'legitimate' your rankings really are when you show that  your community bans users you don't like without cause.

Hard to have faith in a leaderboard when players who threaten the moderators times get banned.  :thinking: :thinking: :thinking:

Terrible argument. A player who gets banned, but later proves themself, has their ban revoked. It even happened to me.

Great argument when you have a rules page stating that all players get 30 days to prove their times & will be rackrolled if they fail to provide, but don't follow your own ruleset?
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: flicker on December 12, 2017, 11:09:15 am
Great argument when you have a rules page stating that all players get 30 days to prove their times & will be rackrolled if they fail to provide, but don't follow your own ruleset?

What we have here is a "rankings related conflict"

https://rankings.the-elite.net/proof#The_Elite_Council

The Elite Council is a group of appointed members tasked with resolving rankings related conflicts and managing the rules governing the rankings. All other concerns and issues, anything not covered in this policy, any new abuses discovered, as well as the selection of proof moderators, will be made by The Elite Council.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 12, 2017, 11:19:47 am
Great argument when you have a rules page stating that all players get 30 days to prove their times & will be rackrolled if they fail to provide, but don't follow your own ruleset?

What we have here is a "rankings related conflict"

https://rankings.the-elite.net/proof#The_Elite_Council

The Elite Council is a group of appointed members tasked with resolving rankings related conflicts and managing the rules governing the rankings. All other concerns and issues, anything not covered in this policy, any new abuses discovered, as well as the selection of proof moderators, will be made by The Elite Council.
What is the conflict though?

I was proof called, I responded promptly saying I will be uploading the videos on friday afternoon when I get home, and asked which times I should provide proof for as my times are shit on most levels (In fact I only saw this post because I was checking the proof call thread  :LOL:)

I'm struggling to find the conflict of interest here.

Again, I was pretty sure I was given one month to provide proof, not one day.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Lark on December 12, 2017, 11:22:17 am
Just to be clear, are you playing on an original n64 console? Times achieved on emulators will not be allowed on the ranks. The best thing you can do for yourself in this situation is be cooperative and provide video proof of what you posted. No need for sarcasm. Good luck and hopefully this gets resolved soon.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: flicker on December 12, 2017, 11:24:58 am
What is the conflict though?

In this thread you made a number of conflicting statements.

Enough bickering. You have a way out.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 12, 2017, 11:25:35 am
Just to be clear, are you playing on an original n64 console? Times achieved on emulators will not be allowed on the ranks. The best thing you can do for yourself in this situation is be cooperative and provide video proof of what you posted. No need for sarcasm. Good luck and hopefully this gets resolved soon.
Of course I am.
I have stated a few times that I am going to be posting proof on Friday regardless of whether or not I am unbanned as a result.

I appreciate you & agree that there is no need for sarcasm, but I feel as if my sarcasm is justified if not outweighed by the fact that I am being insulted directly.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 12, 2017, 11:26:33 am
What is the conflict though?

In this thread you made a number of conflicting statements.

Enough bickering. You have a way out.
For example?

And where was the "72 hour voting window"?
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Alka Maass on December 12, 2017, 11:35:23 am
assuming that you post the videos of all your 60+ times, and assuming that they are all legit and meet proof standards, there is nothing to worry about really so just chill man
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: falzy211 on December 12, 2017, 11:46:02 am
Not saying i like a the newer guy has said

HOWEVER

Singling out a new player on its own thread and having prominent elites talk about freezes or bans before ANYTHING is proven just cos you think it's too good is a good way to

1) Make them very upset, which might make them answer in this way

2) Push any new players away very quickly

Having an attitude like that won't help grow the forum.

This should have been asked privately by a moderator.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 12, 2017, 12:13:36 pm
Not saying i like a the newer guy has said

HOWEVER

Singling out a new player on its own thread and having prominent elites talk about freezes or bans before ANYTHING is proven just cos you think it's too good is a good way to

1) Make them very upset, which might make them answer in this way

2) Push any new players away very quickly

Having an attitude like that won't help grow the forum.

This should have been asked privately by a moderator.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: DYM on December 12, 2017, 12:33:50 pm
Timeline of events:

This new player most likely does not know that people are suspicious of his records. He did not technically violate any policy and assumes he will be proof-called under normal circumstances. It is not unreasonable for both him to think so, and the council to have reservations about him because of his actions and proof-call him under "extreme" conditions (because this is not common for new players).

Icy (who happens to not even be on the council) is the one to make a thread in an attempt to contact this player and clear things up. The first response (by a council member) contributes nothing of substance whatsoever. This council member, who happens to also be a rankings administrator, later tells me "i was never told that i had to act a certain way on the boards once i was appointed to the council" and admits his posting style was "maybe bad".

Admittedly, his style of posting leads people to believe he is a troll, but he does ask for clarification. Nothing should be assumed at this point.

I (who happens to not be a council member either) provide a list of what records should be provided for proof. He responds with a plausible reason. At this point, a council member should work out a reasonable deadline for him to provide proof on, work out what should be done, or at the very least give a warning. Discussion took place in the council forum, but nothing was said to him.

The next series of posts by council members in this thread consist of either flawed logic or memes. They do not ask for any deadline, nor give any warning, nor work out anything that should be done. Again, it isn't unreasonable for people to believe the style of posting reeks of an alt account because of past experiences, but what he is supposed to do when council members aren't working out anything with him?

He gets banned without warning.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Lark on December 12, 2017, 12:58:55 pm
Just wanna second what Ace said. Without singling anyone out in particular, a few of you could have behaved better and more professionally. Flux didn't initially have a good attitude, but as administrators, proof mods, council members or whatever your role may be, you're held to higher standards than a newcomer.

This is a good lesson. Regardless of how troll, or suspicious a player and his times are, just ask for proof and follow protocol until the situation is completely understood; then action can be taken.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: flukey lukey on December 12, 2017, 03:10:10 pm
what a gigantic waste of energy
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 12, 2017, 03:28:47 pm
Flux didn't initially have a good attitude.

Regardless of how troll, or suspicious a player and his times are, just ask for proof
I respectfully disagree. I initially had a perfectly acceptable attitude, which deteriorated as a result of unnecessary trolling.

I also still fail to see how I am "troll" or even "suspicious" beyond being unknown to you.
It must be difficult for you to walk anywhere, what with all the suspicious trolls (strangers) about.

Calls new Eliters idiots for lulz = Moderator.

Doesn't post PB video within 24 hours = Banned suspicious troll.


Impeccable logic.

The fact that this is an issue within an almost 20 year old community is quite staggaring in all honesty.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Icy on December 12, 2017, 04:22:24 pm
I made the thread thinking it was the case that some new player mistakenly thought emulator times are allowed on the rankings, and was hoping Flux would see it so we can clear things up. There's no other way to get a hold of you (though in hindsight, one of the mods could use the e-mail you log in with, so my apologies for calling you out). Exceptionally good Train PRs, along with average times for a new player usually suggest they're playing on emulator, and it's better to resolve that sooner rather than later.

Regardless of Flux's playing habits, reasons, etc, if he claims he's playing on console and not on emulator, then in my opinion give him the benefit of the doubt until normal proofcalling procedures.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: mw on December 12, 2017, 04:25:37 pm
You know, this whole thing reeks to me of not a Grav alt, but of someone who was massively triggered by Goose's video/opinions on the Mario 64 webcam thing. I think "Flux" is someone trying to "out" the Elite as a "toxic community" to expose what they feel is hypocrisy from the high-and-mighty members of the Elite. Maybe inspired by the whole Project Veritas/Washington Post thing a few weeks ago.

I'd be willing to bet that come Friday we won't have any proof videos, but instead a "The Elite EXPOSED" video will be posted to r/speedrun.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 12, 2017, 05:03:16 pm
You know, this whole thing reeks to me of not a Grav alt, but of someone who was massively triggered by Goose's video/opinions on the Mario 64 webcam thing. I think "Flux" is someone trying to "out" the Elite as a "toxic community" to expose what they feel is hypocrisy from the high-and-mighty members of the Elite. Maybe inspired by the whole Project Veritas/Washington Post thing a few weeks ago.

I'd be willing to bet that come Friday we won't have any proof videos, but instead a "The Elite EXPOSED" video will be posted to r/speedrun.
:LOL:
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: 50 on December 12, 2017, 05:55:04 pm
what a gigantic waste of energy

Thread lowkey made me smile at moments tho
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Time was untied when set. on December 12, 2017, 08:19:58 pm
Most opinionated eliter :grav
Number of replies from grav in a topic entirely full of opinionated garble : 0

I think we have our answer
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: deletedprofile.u on December 12, 2017, 08:44:19 pm
what a gigantic waste of energy
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Grav on December 12, 2017, 09:31:55 pm
i dont care about irrels dude lol. i dont pay attention to any new people and only really tune in when they have posted good times and/or have started to fit in with discord
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: SimThreat on December 12, 2017, 11:16:41 pm
For transparency I will outline my reasoning for agreeing with the ban. And tbh I feel like you would need to be intentionally naive to disregard the ACTUAL timeline of events.

Flicker's first post was not an attack at all on Noah, so there would be no reason to be defensive here. Alka maass's post was stating his prediction that the times were fake, however tbh this should not be that agitating as it is fair enough for someone to pred that someone else is lying, his opinion and he is relatively irrel. In any case Noah's first response was neutral and not defensive at all, and quite agreeable.

Now, then he states that he is out of town on work and therefore cannot upload vids. This is fine in of itself, however he continues to post PR's, indicating that he is playing. I post...

Out of town for work but posting new pr's   :thinking:

My post is actually quite neutral, and is pointing out something that is quite legitimate. It is completely reasonable to find it weird that a person would be on a business/work trip but pack their n64/recording equipment/means to play on n64 on the trip. Extremely unusual. But my post did not express that it was untrue, just interesting (which it is). He posts...

Out of town for work but posting new pr's   :thinking:
I'm not aloud to play Goldeneye in the evenings?

Instantly defensive and passive aggressive. This attitude was in no way called for or justified given my neutral statement. Either this person 1. knows me and doesn't like me already, or 2. was lying in his original statement and is defensive now that he knows his lie was caught. It should be immediately obvious at this point this person is a troll or has some chip on his shoulder. This was not my doing and my post was not provoking at all.

Flicker then asks if he takes his entire set up out of time, to which Flux searches google for the car/mario picture, downloads it and uploads it to imgur. Not sure why Ace decided to omit this from his timeline of events. Given that it would actually be easier just to take a photo of his set up and upload (given he has stated that he has no wifi, but he doesn't mind eating bandwidth by searching for/downloading/uploading a google pic?) his real setup, it is confirmation to me he is just a troll. Find me literally one reason why someone would post a fake picture in a topic in which they are being proof called. I then post..

https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/car-super-mario/

Found link to picture source. Can we please ban/remove this troll already.

This post does state that Flux was a troll, however this is completely reasonable as posting the fake pic WAS troll. My post was not a personal attack and was not aggressive in tone, just straight to the point. Flux replies with..

https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/car-super-mario/

Found link to picture source. Can we please band/remove this troll already.
Yeah? Clever boi.

Did you hurt yourself thinking to figure out that I wasn't playing on a backup camera monitor?

VERY aggressive and insulting. Absolutely no need for such an attitude given that my reply was reasonable given the continuous aggressiveness and BM he had been throwing at a council member who was not being aggressive/insulting, in a topic where he is being proof called.

I would not ban someone just for not submitting proof within 24 hours, however this community has been around for 18 years. We all have a pretty good idea about what is or isn't realistic for new people. We also have a decent idea about how genuine new people behave when they join with legit times. I would be quite happy to wait for proof, however he posted a fake picture of his set up and then was extremely insulting/aggressive when it was found to be fake. Also what he was saying doesn't add up.

So my decision is quite reasonable.

I don't know why you would think it is ok for people to post 20 pr's in a single day without proof (containing times like dam 53/train 106) then get aggressive in a proof call topic and post FAKE pictures and insult council members.

NO ONE has actually been insulting or has had bad attitude towards Flux, save for calling him a troll (which he is CONFIRMED to be by posting the fake picture). Yet his attitude has been insanely negative and insulting to almost everyone. Needs to also be banned from the boards tbh.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: SimThreat on December 12, 2017, 11:30:03 pm
Also it must be stated that when you are banned from the ranks it is not a personal attack or insult. It means your times are, for whatever reason, too much of an outlier to be left on the ranks without proof. There is absolutely no reason to feel offended by this or start attacking the members of the community.

As I mentioned, this community has been around almost 20 years. If we say that your times are too bizarre to be left on the rankings without proof, you should respect that we know a lot more about what new players are like and should also respect the fact that we want you to provide proof. Posting fake pictures, making excuses and being aggressive is not something that a legit player would do.

Prove me wrong. It would be great if you could stop with the attitude as well, but at the end of the day I don't care because you're banned and I'm not. It's just in your best interest if you actually want to be a part of the community.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: DYM on December 13, 2017, 03:09:20 am
For the record, I don't condone Noah's attitude after he was banned but I can see why he was upset. And his attitude after his ban is not what I see as the problem here.

Flicker's first post wasn't an attack, but it was devoid of substance and in fact possibly detrimental to the discussion. If some new player is suspicious and you want to clear things up with them, you ask for proof, a deadline or try to work something out. He was not clear with any of this and instead makes a snarky remark. You can make out what how "serious" he probably thought the council was from this post and all the ensuing ones.  Icy somewhat what was more tactful, and the dude replied to Icy AND asked for more clarification, which the council did not respond to. Regardless, given how meme-like the first few posts were, it's not surprising at all to me the way he replied. Instead of the council members being more tactful the style of low-quality posting continued.

I do not believe he would have responded in the manner he did if the council members were more professional with their posts, which they clearly weren't.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: SimThreat on December 13, 2017, 03:25:08 am
You keep throwing around accusations etc without providing any examples. What posts were memes, what posts were low quality. How was his response in any way justified from what was posted beforehand. Your opinions aren't constructive at all and it really feels like you're just trying to contrive drama. And yes, I can actually back up what I'm saying with examples which I already did which you didn't address at all.

It does absolutely no good just to call our posts low quality without any reason or examples (because the posts actually weren't).

For the record, I don't condone Noah's attitude after he was banned but I can see why he was upset. And his attitude after his ban is not what I see as the problem here.

This seems to indicate that you either didn't read my post or just chose to ignore it. His attitude after the ban is completely irrelevant. It was his attitude before the ban that caused him to be banned. So I'm not really sure why you're even mentioning his attitude after the ban.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: falzy211 on December 13, 2017, 07:11:07 am
I think maybe it's worth stressing that this should be being talked about privately.

Deliberately airing this on an article can be seen as a way to publicly humiliate someone.

That's not right. Bearing in mind that this is the internet, and that you're not necessarily talking to someone who thinks like you, or isn't as well as you. That needs to be considered


So noones saying his times aren't unusual, but this was deal with badly.  As a result you can't tell if his responses are trying to hide cheating, or because he's been justifiably upset at being made an example of.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: vitorr on December 13, 2017, 09:50:32 am
Falzy, I agree with you in the "take things privately" thing, maybe it'd be a better idea to send him an e-mail. But at the same time it's an old habit here to create "ATTN" topics to get someone's attention. Forum private messages doesn't work well too (what if the player hasn't created an account yet), and our e-mail could be labeled as spam or shit like that. So the "public" approach here is not invalid at all. We (through Icy's post) didn't share any private info or whatever and we didn't make any offense towards Flux. Icy kindly asked: "m8 you got some good times, are you playing on console?". And the answer is "Uploading when I get home daddy. ". And then Flux apparently got offended or something (?) and continued to write nosense shit like that raspberry pic.

And because of that our system is broken? We are very careful with our proof policy and moderation of the rankings because (well for a lot of reasons, but one of them) it's NOT uncommon for people to think that playing on emulator is valid. It's happened in the past. So someone unknown gets a streak of very good times in a short span of time (SPECIALLY train 106 NTSC which is pretty impressive, coming from someone who had 0 points just a while ago, and train is a lot different on emu), doesn't provide ANY kind of instant proof and ignores the console question when asked.

Yeah yeah we need to improve our proof call and etc, we're working on it as you can see on the forums. Our system is far from perfect. But we can't accept someone coming in, ignoring a very important question and acting like a smartass, being disrespectful to mods and other players.

This could've been 100% avoided by Flux if he replied "Yeah I'm playing on console", or if we had a private notification system in our rankings (unfortunately we don't, yet), or maybe if a mod sent him an e-mail, not sure if it'd work. But like, get real. This is not a public institution and it's not anyone's job or whatever, so as soon as you act like a fucking idiot, you lose all your credibility and yeah you'll get banned and shit. It's life. We can't just quietly tolerate this kind of behavior as if we had a very detailed proofing verification process that catches every single case (e.g if someone in one day posts a bunch of 50 pointers, we're in the right of asking for proof instead of waiting one month). Sometimes you gotta take measures, like make a topic and ask "hey buddy are you playing on console". Is that so completely "wrong" and "not part of our process"? I don't think so.

And I'm with Karl. Overall I think the temporary ban was a good decision. Like I said, it could've ben avoided. And he was banned 90% because of acting like a troll, NOT because he had unverified times. Please don't go like "we have to follow our rules and wait for proof" and etc. Our verification process is in constant change and yeah it has some issues. One month is the time required to provide proof in "regular" situations I guess, but this is not really clear.

Sorry for the long post m8s. I hope Flux upload videos for his PRs. It's always good to have good players around.

And if this is someone trolling, you got me  :kappa:
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: falzy211 on December 13, 2017, 10:13:25 am
Most of the first 10 posts including the OP show a pretty bad attitude to the new guy. Your clearly assumed him guilty and bannable before hed even replied to the thread.

If you've gotta expose people in this way, needs to be done a lot better

Anyway im a nobody here... this is just how I saw it when I looked in to see who was streaming
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: DYM on December 13, 2017, 11:04:41 am
"Flicker's first post wasn't an attack, but it was devoid of substance and in fact possibly detrimental to the discussion"

https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=22202.msg450074#msg450074

What is the purpose of this post? This issue was serious enough to warrant a thread and some questions by Icy. Flicker, as a rankings moderator and council member, could have posted the following:

- This is why we want to call you under different circumstances
- We want this to be done (upload videos by given date, etc)
- Consequence of not following rules (ban, etc)

It is more than likely this new player would instantly realize why he's being called out. He probably would have replied seriously (as he did to my first post) and with more information about his situation.

But the proof moderator doesn't do this. You can make out what you want about Flicker's post instead. I did not say it was an attack, just an irrelevant one that could have better been utilized especially given his role as a moderator and his urge to post in the thread.

None of what I say below is relevant to my main post, but I addressed them anyway:

Spoiler
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=22202.msg450123#msg450123

Second post by a council member. Could have responded with further clarification, for example deadline or repercussion (though not necessary). Appears to be a neutral post, but quite casual and informal and the way it is worded will almost certainly elicit a response from the new guy.

'Instantly defensive and passive aggressive. This attitude was in no way called for or justified given my neutral statement. Either this person 1. knows me and doesn't like me already, or 2. was lying in his original statement and is defensive now that he knows his lie was caught. It should be immediately obvious at this point this person is a troll or has some chip on his shoulder. This was not my doing and my post was not provoking at all.'

'This attitude was in no way called for'? You act as if he insulted you when he simply responded with rhetoric that honestly shouldn't be unexpected. But none of this is relevant to my main point.

https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=22202.msg450126#msg450126

'Jimbo strat'... really? This new player probably won't even know what that means. Again, nothing in the post indicates it's an attack but why not use it to provide a warning instead?

'This seems to indicate that you either didn't read my post or just chose to ignore it.'

You assume that the one line I wrote there was directed towards your post and not a general statement.

'Most of the first 10 posts including the OP show a pretty bad attitude to the new guy. Your clearly assumed him guilty and bannable before hed even replied to the thread.'

I agree. He clearly stated that he was out of town for work and would upload videos later. Instead of giving him the benefit of the doubt, or responding with a deadline of sorts, or even asking what proof was required (note that they did not do this, but a regular member) the council members post rhetorical statements instead. Then they ban him. I don't find that acceptable.

The council members are looking at HIS posts and HIS behavior instead of realizing they could have handled this situation better.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: SimThreat on December 13, 2017, 11:30:20 am
I agree that the original 2 replies are meaningless/stupid whatever. However they absolutely do not warrant attitude in any way. First of all, Flicker's post was directed at everyone else except for the person the topic was meant for, because he believed that Flux would not see the topic. And, Flux's responses confirm that there was no issue.

Dude of course I'm going to be neutral and casual, why can't I be? Are you saying that I have to talk like a robot because I'm on the council? You have ridiculous standards. You are illogically suggesting that my post is in some way responsible for his attitude, which it isn't. There was literally nothing wrong with my post, and I can be as casual as I want.

Are you saying it isn't interesting/weird that he would bring a n64 on his work trip, along with recording equipment? Are you saying that if someone says something that is a bit weird I can't note it or mention it? Because that person might spaz out and get triggered?

Quote
Instead of giving him the benefit of the doubt, or responding with a deadline of sorts, or even asking what proof was required (note that they did not do this, but a regular member) the council members post rhetorical statements instead. Then they ban him. I don't find that acceptable.

This does make me think (could be wrong) you just intentionally refuse to listen to anything we say. As a already mentioned, he was never in danger of being removed until he started giving attitude and posted the fake picture (trolling/lying).

You even admitted that none of our posts were attacks. So there was legitimately no reason for him to be a smart ass, or post that troll picture. You completely gloss over this ever time you post as if it never happened. I really do believe you're being difficult here on purpose.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: SimThreat on December 13, 2017, 11:36:32 am
Most of the first 10 posts including the OP show a pretty bad attitude to the new guy. Your clearly assumed him guilty and bannable before hed even replied to the thread.

Alka Maass was the only post here indicating that someone thought he was guilty.

Please do not tell me what I mean. If I mean to say something, I will say it. If I think he is a troll, I will say so, as I did in my second response. Do not put words in my mouth or tell me what I do or don't assume. At the time of my first post I was literally just pointing out that it's weird that he said he is out of town for work but still pr'ing. Which it is. I had no intention or thoughts of banning/removing him. Why would I care?

I DO care however when he gives me attitude and acts like a smart ass for no reason, then posts a fake BS picture and tries to troll us.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: falzy211 on December 13, 2017, 11:51:48 am
Well anyway I'll leave it here. It's clear I've upset people and it wasn't my intention, I just thought it seemed unfriendly to newer people.
I don't wish to get into trouble myself or get into a fight

Hope the guy can come back and prove his times
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: SimThreat on December 13, 2017, 11:55:16 am
Nah dude don't worry no one is upset :) Sorry if I was too full on, but I mean really I don't care man. This is just a way to kill time posting in these topics and debating.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: vitorr on December 13, 2017, 11:55:50 am
I understand and agree with you on that Falzy, thanks for your input btw. A few replies in this topic (mainly Alka's :grin:) were disrespectful as well, maybe that got him triggered. Also agree that Flicker could've been a little more serious on the subject, like Ace pointed out. But IMO that doesn't give Flux's right to keep making fun of the situation etc, instead of clearing things up, specially in this very awkward situation (streak of insanely good PRs coming from someone who had 0 points and very bad times, train 106 NTSC, no single kind of instant proof, he's out of town and can't upload videos).

Adjusting what I've said in the other reply. This could been avoided if:

- No one replied to Icy's post, unless it was a mod adding some more information (like a deadline and why he's being proof called)
- Flux answered the post accordingly, explaining that he's indeed playing console and telling us why he can't upload videos now.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Papa FLuX on December 13, 2017, 12:43:30 pm
however he posted a fake picture of his set up.

Needs to also be banned from the boards tbh.
Possibly the most autistic novel I've ever read tbh.
Can't tell if the joke of that photo really went over your head or not.
Hard to believe that you're actually that stupid.

Go ahead & ban me  :LOL: :LOL: better make sure it's before Friday night so you can keep me off the rankings. ;)

P.S I spend Mon-Fri every week in Toronto, an hour from my town.
Not really suspicious that I have a few consoles here especially considering that there isn't wifi, as stated ages ago.

I hope you realize that this thread was over 4-5 posts in, and it was made into something larger than necessary by a few people (yourself especially).

Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: DYM on December 13, 2017, 12:47:01 pm
Quote
'First of all, Flicker's post was directed at everyone else except for the person the topic was meant for, because he believed that Flux would not see the topic. And, Flux's responses confirm that there was no issue.'

'because he believed that Flux would not see the topic'. OK, but the same style of posting continued even after Flux saw the topic and should have been given more clarification. Clarification on a deadline, what needed to be proven, etc. This would have prevented all the nonsense that was posted afterwards.

Quote
'Dude of course I'm going to be neutral and casual, why can't I be? Are you saying that I have to talk like a robot because I'm on the council? You have ridiculous standards.' ... There was literally nothing wrong with my post

I am not sure where I said any or implied any of that, nor did I say there was anything wrong with your post.

You seem to think I have an issue with his attitude being OK when it is, in fact, the moderators who I think did not handle the situation appropriately.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Jimbo on December 13, 2017, 04:08:05 pm
I just can't stand insubordinate cocky pricks who are new to the scene. I fired people like that. Take the high road, Noah.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: Alka Maass on December 15, 2017, 10:36:04 pm
Quote
I am going to be posting proof on Friday
I will be uploading the videos on friday afternoon when I get home
:nesquik:
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: SimThreat on December 17, 2017, 12:38:46 am
Just realised that everyone was using the word banned, but noah was never banned. He was removed from the ranks until proof was provided (which it wasnt, what a shocker).

For future reference when someone is removed in a similar situation pls dont use the word banned. Banned is completely different to what happened.

Also note i remember when people will stand by and let a new random irrel call me autistic and stupid etc. Not true mates.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: flukey lukey on December 17, 2017, 01:01:34 am
im chocked he(it) hasnt uploaded any proof videos yet !
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: deletedprofile.u on December 17, 2017, 02:37:00 am
Also note i remember when people will stand by and let a new random irrel call me autistic and stupid etc. Not true mates.

Well...ARE you autistic and stupid? Obv not. Gotta let that goofy stuff slide, mate. Not worth the stress/attention being brought to it. Let idiots be idiots.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: SimThreat on December 17, 2017, 02:49:08 am
Thanks Alec but im not stressed/worried about what Noah said at all. It is just englightening about the other people who dont voice any concerns about this guy posting inflammatory posts about established members. In fact they even side with the troll and try to justify his actions.

Definitely something i notice and remember.
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: SimThreat on April 19, 2018, 10:07:58 am
Where the vids tbh
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: DYM on April 19, 2018, 10:44:21 am
If you're not convinced Noah Latour was a grav alt despite all the evidence Goose & I posted, then idk what to say.

https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=22205.0
Title: Re: ATTN: Noah "Flux" Latour
Post by: deletedprofile.u on April 19, 2018, 08:03:22 pm
The alt got BTFO.

On to better things.