I'm pleased to see this has turned into less of a witch hunt :v
Is there any public description of 'the Zwartjes strat'?
I confirmed with Henrik over and over again that the strat Zwartjes suggests is not possible.
Id guess because if there in that room there gonna see you duck behind where the computer is to hide so theyd never really run to the glass theyd run to you but I could be wrong.
(like some 1080 times he claimed are being proved impossible decimals a la Todd Rogers' Dragster)
(like some 1080 times he claimed are being proved impossible decimals a la Todd Rogers' Dragster)
Would like some more explanation to this. Most of his 1080 listed times on N64HS are quite a bit far off from being first (with the exception of Mountain Village which is second). I couldn't find anything on google about him cheating there.
my bad, got confused with andrew kent's fake times https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=22326.msg454325#msg454325
i dont know though, he doesnt explain it very clearly at all, which is why it would be best to have some sort of video of the strat. although at the same time i feel like there are very similar stats that have been used that are somewhat close to what he described that he could just claim it was one of those... examples would be the mainframe stuck or bozon's fast glass
Zwartjes's strat was even weirder:
same first two rooms, kill everyone in black room. lean up against the glass facing the mainframe. position yourself on the glass in between two sheets of glass (the two lines running up and down that you can clearly see). use the line on the right when you enter the room. now, shoot to activate the guard behind the mainframe while turning to face the glass. instantly leave and run to the console place. this should activate the guard to run up the line going up and down on the glass. he should also be facing it. now pop out and shoot a bunch of bullets above his head. since he's in one of two (supposed) places that he can open the window, he we'll have been activated to do so in craziness. That's his supposed strat. He told it to me.
You are luring the wrong guy Wink
u have to lure the one that is standing next to the gate that is opening and closing not the one in the back.
when u lure him closing the gate right after that he should be slow and open it some later.
at that time u are already standing next to the glass that has to open. SHoot some bullets now and hide in the place behind the wall near the mainframe.
Now he has to open the door for you.
chances are so small he is doing that because sometimes he even comes running straight to you
but it is possible after u have tried 10 hours u know it is
All guys gone except the one behind the mainframe door.strafe to him.show yourself and by doing this let the door rise.he should be slow and open it some later again.back up and get in the place next to the glassdoor.shoot a few bullets on the door where guy comes out. (dont hit him Wink)
the bullets make an indication for the computer to the place u have been the last (while shooting).
the place u shoot last is the place where the enemy will try to find u IF he did not have eye contact with u and follows the noise.
(I made loads of advantage of this in the early LTK days Smiley like runway the guys keep appearing if u kill them, the trick is to lure them with a shot and then hide.
the guard will walk to the place u took your shot.of course u where shooting near a wall so the guy stands there stupidly with his face towards the wall Grin) Do this with all guards and u have a safe walk to the plane Smiley)
Anyways back to Aztec:
the moment the door is about to go down (this is about right after u took your shot) hide quickly in the spot near the mainframe. the guard walks to the glassdoor and should open it immediately.
this is where it gets fucked up because there is only guard who is willing to do it instead of the 3 guards in the strat u guys all use thus chances are absurdly low for it to happen.but if u have patience it will happen.
Also it's worth saying that I am not saying you should believe this person without proof or anything like that, but it seems to me that people are dismissing a potential nudge in the correct strat direction.
Stefan: Because the Elite are able to lure a guard to the glass but they could never make him open it.
Steven: That's completely understandable. I had the same problem of him often standing at the right place but never opening the glass door.
Steven: It's because the guard needs an extra task.
Steven: Not only the task to walk to the glass door. That is fairly consistent with the right execution.
Steven: He must want to reach the place behind the glass door.
Steven: If he wants to do that, then he is obligated to open it.
Steven: He can indeed do that, if you are using the same clever trick like they are using at the Elite by putting an extra guard there. Then he is obligated to stand in a different place than the guard standing next to him. Sometimes this fails when the spot next to that guard can be in front of the glass instead of behind it.
Steven: That's why you also now have failed runs in which the right execution was used by 2 guards.
Steven: With 1 guard it becomes more complex, because he has to give that task to himself.
Stefan: So the question is what you did to give that one guard the task to open the door.
Steven: He can make a programmed sidestep before he's getting ready to start shooting or make a sprint from the lured spot from point a to point b.
Steven: That point b must be behind the glass door. This is dependent on the angle on which the guard reaches point a.
Steven: That's why the hit rate is so low.
Steven: If i did not succeed and he is looking at the glass, then i gave the guard a shot above his head so that you have a chance on the execution from his new task again.
Stefan: Like i said earlier, this will become the most clear to people when you demonstrate the strat with the glass door opening on video.
Steven: Certainly. :smiley:
Steven: Back then i also worked on a second strat on Aztec because the first one seemed to have such a low hit rate. That one has never seen the light of day. :grinning:
Steven: They don't use it now either.
Stefan: lol would like to hear that one too.
Steven: You want to lure as fast as possible to gain time. Preferably with as many guards as possible.
Steven: You can skip the walking guards in the beginning stage. There are 5 of them. 3 from the first part and 2 in the second part.
Steven: They have to go after you to stage 3 where the glass door is.
Steven: If you kill all the guards in stage 3 and the sliding door is down again, then you can place some lure shots at the glass door aiming at the sliding door. Your position is then fixed for the guards who are coming from behind.
Steven: Then you have to hide where the dude stands next to the second mainframe.
Steven: Sometimes the guards that come from behind reach stage 3 quickly because they occasionally warp to it.
Steven: The warping from guards from point a to point b only happens when they're out of sight from Bond, but that can save a lot of time.
Steven: They then go to your fixed position at the glass door and can open it.
Stefan: Interesting, ever got it to work?
Steven: Only slow procedures. I haven't put more time into it to work that out. I did think about creating another working plan for some time back then.
Steven: If you kill all the guards in stage 3 and the sliding door is down again, then you can place some lure shots at the glass door aiming at the sliding door. Your position is then fixed for the guards who are coming from behind.
Steven: Sometimes the guards that come from behind reach stage 3 quickly because they occasionally warp to it.
I tried forcing the sidestep/sidehop/running sideways animations and as I suspected, the game checks for obstacles (such as the glass door) and will always chose a direction that leads away from it. So as long as the guard is close enough to the glass, he won't step/hop/run towards it.
His explanation is actually insane (in the right ways) and makes me hopeful this can work. I'd like to see Henrik chime in, which I'm sure he'll do soon, but it "sounds" plausible at least. I'm very keen for the next steps.
Btw: re "B.arber" and whatnot... as the power of the elite admin team began to wane, they tried to do a bunch of bullshit that would annoy the "true" eliters... too many things to mention, but they changed a few words such as:
B.arber => Bearder
P.robert => that jerk
s.orcery => tomfoolery
I'm sure someone could change it back, but the "keys" to the various administration tools are pretty scattered among various semi-inactive people who can't be arsed with simple tasks. A shame they've leave the elite in such a state... it's actually quite incredible how much we've come despite guys like Ngamer (B.arber), Come, etc, trying to sabotage the place before they were finally exiled for good.
Stefan: I read on the forums that Henrik tried to force the programmed sidestep from the guard at the glass with a hack
Stefan: But he says that the game checks for obstacles and always chooses a direction leading away from the glass.
Stefan: Has it ever opened for you with a sidestep/random animation?
Steven: Is that a recent post? Will read it to know what he means exactly.
Stefan: Yes, on the Elite forums.
Steven: You're seeing that sidestep because you can't make contact with the guard.
Steven: Only if you make contact and shoot above his head as a second option.
Steven: There he can then make a sidestep or run.
Steven: To make this clear, it would be best for me to get it on video.
Steven: I saw the vid about the new Aztec strat.
Steven: Gave me some ideas.
Steven: You are definitely going to get slaughtered while performing the crouch strat.
Steven: My idea is to indeed give the guard that is sprinting to the glass a leg shot.
Steven: Then strafe to it and then going behind him standing up to him instead of crouching in front of him.
Steven: This way you prevent taking a lot of damage plus you are getting other positive things going.
Steven: You're standing closer to the glass and can now determine the angle on which you want the guard running to you at.
Steven: The chances of the glass opening is then bigger plus you take less damage. If this works, then this makes the strategy viable for SA and 00 Agent.
Steven: Then you can let the guard mid-right live and can kill him in the right-side behind corner. The middle guard has the most straight line towards you if you are hiding behind the guard whose at the glass.
Steven: Now this guard can walk to you and around the guard in one straight line plus he has to go to the glass door and open it.
Steven: The guard in the right corner has a side view of you and the guard so there is a line that he can shoot. Thus you are definitely better off killing this guard on SA and 00A.
Steven: Will test this for sure. :smiley:
Looks to me like as he was hiding and shooting, the left guard that helped open the glass ran to the left. Doesn't look very promising that one guard did it
I hope to finish this all with a suprise video, but also still working on that :)
Will be back soon.
Can't wait to finally learn how to start Aztec in second gear.
Nice :smirk:Can't wait to finally learn how to start Aztec in second gear.
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=22292#msg451019 (https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=22292#msg451019)
There ya go
Nice initiative, this interview. I will answer the questions as well as i possibly can. I hope that i still remember most of it, because there are some events here that are from 20 years ago. :)
Q: What kind of tournaments did you participate in? And do you remember what place you reached? List everything that you remember.
A: I have played quite a bit of tournaments.
-Street Fighter 2 SNES 1992, NL Championships: Became national champion.
-Dutch Nintendo Championships 1993: got knocked out in the last 16.
-NL Nintendo Championships 1994: got knocked out in the last 32.
Patrick Wessels reached first there.
-NL Nintendo Championships 1995: got knocked out in the last 16.
-NL Nintendo Championships 1996: got knocked out in the last 16.
Every year i saw the name Wessels above me on the rankings.
-Mario Kart 64 NL Championships 1997: got knocked out in the last 8 in VS mode.
First meeting with Patrick Wessels.
As you can see from the above, pretty much all of it just came up short from reaching the top. After meeting Wessels and we became friends from that day on everything changed. From that moment on there were a lot of games that we "beuked"(pounded out is the closest translation i can think of lol) as we liked to call it.
Together we analyzed every game that we played and found the depth of every game. From the moment that our friendship began and we combined our gaming skills and knowledge, we seemed unbeatable at every Nintendo Tournament in which we participated. I think that i learned real gaming thanks to Patrick.
-NL Nintendo Championships 1998 Waddinxveen: Became 1st, Patrick 2nd.
-NL Mario Kart Championships 1999: Became 1st, Patrick 2nd.
-NL Nintendo Championships Star Wars Racer 1999: Became 2nd, Patrick 1st.
-NL Nintendo Championships 2000: Became 3rd, Patrick 1st.
-NL Wave Race Championships 2001: Became 2nd, Piet den Dulk 1st. Southern Island 1'31"1 PAL in the preliminaries.
-1080 Snowboarding Championships 2001: Became 1st. I set the then current WR on Mountain Village time trial in the final round.
-NLG Norway '07 meeting with topgamers, lots of different games. 3 golden medals and 1 bronze.
Q: Do you remember the content of the tapes you made and to who you send them to? The only ones that surfaced online was a tape with Goldeneye, Lylatwars(Star Fox) and Wave Race from 1998(which i believe Greg Ihnatenko had) and a Mario Kart tape which shows your LR 1'58"65(i think Ben Miller originally had this). According to a lot of old forum posts we found that were posted by Michael Liem and you, you send out tapes to Iacopo Sorce. I asked Iacopo if he still has some of your tapes, but he doesn't recall that and thinks he might have never gotten a tape from you (he said he could be wrong). I found that a bit strange.
A: In that time i have indeed send out a lot of tapes. Iacopo Sorce definitely must have gotten several tapes, yes. The people i had contact with about the tapes were Ben Miller, Kevin Booth, Greg Ihnatenko, but most of the tapes were send to Rene Elsaesser. I also can't recall that a lot of that came online. I haven't had contact with him in years. I did go to Austria together with Patrick for a game meeting with the Elsaessers. They have also been to the Netherlands with Greg Ihnatenko. Back then i've also had frequent contact with Kevin Booth. Maybe he can tell some interesting fragments of that time.
Q: Are there any other games where you did very good that weren't on the N64? We know about Street Fighter 2. I also read in a post from Sargoth that you were very good at Trackmania and that you played Counter Strike and that a professional team tried to recruit you.
A: I was completely crazy about Trackmania. I have played that pretty intensively for a couple of months. Ultimately i peaked out at number 1 and stopped then. With me there were always phases in which i completely lose myself in a game and give myself a goal. Once that goal is reached, i liked to switch to a different game that appeals to me. Unfortunately i have never been able to play games normally. Maybe some other speedgamers can recognize this. You play a new game and everything has to get fast and tight right away and you're searching in depth for stuff that can help you become better and quicker in the game. You just can't switch off that part of yourself. That's also what happened with Counter Strike. I lost myself in that game so quickly that i was often "beuken" it from 1 PM in the afternoon to 11 AM in the moring, and then i find out that i have an appointment at 11 AM.
I was indeed asked to join a top Clan.
I thought about it for a moment but for the first time i declined something related to games. I was just deepened in the real social life (will come back later to this), that i didn't want to fall back to a life behind a console with the curtains closed again. ;)
Now about your Aztec times from Goldeneye.
Q: Why did you not give an explanation of your strategy in Aztec at first? Why did it take so long before you finally came with an actual description? I think i know the answer to this question already kind of. In a conversation with Karel (at least according to him) that you were tired of people that were copy pasting the strats from other people instead of thinking for themselves.
A: This part is just a bit different than what people will think. I started out on message boards very positive and enthusiastically with sharing knowledge and new inventions. I was often proud when i found out something that was "out of the box". I think in the time that i was active as a gamer that i was always helpful in the community through personal chats with lots of different people and posts on the message board.
And also because i joined a lot of meetings, it was a lot of fun to test each others skills and to exchange strats.
However, it started to disappoint me at the moment i noticed that the group of people who were actively trying to raise the level of the community was very small. A couple of people were very busy analyzing the game in depth and sharing their discoveries. Sometimes you can be busy for hours or days trying to succesfully work out your idea in a game. That can be frustrating when the majority of the crowd just copies that new strat just to get a WR quickly.
I do think that my behaviour back then regarding that was immature and somewhat arrogant. That arrogance also came from somewhere and i will come back later to that. :)
It also took a lot of years to see such things in yourself and to change into something which i hope works better for myself and my environment.
So now i can enjoy watching a current community such as the Elite. You see what it does when everybody is open and contributes their share of knowledge/strats.
It's a solid big group of gamers who play the same game and brought it to an absurdly high level with combined forces.
The fact that the Aztec strategy came out so late was partially because of the above mentioned immature reason. The reason why it took years later for me to post again was because of the following:
At my parent's home there was no internet.
The only time in which i can access the internet in those years were as a HBO(college) student at school. I posted my new times and new strats there with my heart's desire. Then i can game from 18:00 to often 4 AM in the morning at home. But my alarm clock did go off at 6:30 for school. The dark circles below my eyes that i build up for years then are still partly there. It seems that they can't be rubbed away anymore. :)
So back then my access to the internet was always restricted and for a period i didn't have access to the internet at all because i fucked up my HBO(college) study. I had to find employment to pay back my study to my parents. So my work became stocking shelves at the Edah(former dutch supermarket chain). :)
I don't think that i posted on the forums for a long time throughout that period. Then i went on and lived alone by myself. I barely had any money but i was able to get by with some food, a job and an old dusty Nintendo. Time to do some (speed)gaming one more time. That succeeded. I played for hours after work and got into it just like back in the day. I didn't get a PC in my house until a year later. That was also the first year in which i really started to develop in other aspects than gaming. Something which i will get back to later :). Thanks to that development i lost my interest in gaming that year completely and made room for other things in life.
For me i was done with it at once and i didn't look back at the forums for one second.
Q: A lot of people from the Elite found your description that you gave in the old 2005 post on the MK forums rather vague. Can you describe it again and with as much detail as possible? The best would be if you demonstrated this and described it in a video of course, that should convince everybody who still doubts. David Clemens, a Goldeneye player found a new strat to open the glass on Aztec to get 1:26 in 2010. This strat is somewhat similar to the strat you described, but not exactly. Is this the same strat that you used?
A: I will present the entire strategy on video which is going to be accompanied with a detailed description. My strategy is indeed different than the one that David Clemens used in his run.
Q: In your 2005 post about the Aztec strat, you said the following "there is another trick that saves some seconds that i dont see is done in the aztec 1´36 vid but that will come later". Michael Fried wanted to know what the trick was. I see it being explained in a later post in the same topic. Maybe you can explain the extra strat/trick again for him.
A: This is actually about multiple things:
You can shoot a bit earlier towards the sliding door on your way to the black room with the glass.
Then you can shoot the 2 guards that are running up against each other behind the sliding door through the door early on.
This causes one of the guards to the right further away to already get up closer. He is often in the same line as the 2 guards on the front and so you can also kill him before the sliding door is open. Now you can directly go in a left strafe and kill the guard to the right at the back and directly follow your way leading to the mainframe door. Should save you a good amount of time compared to the 1:36 video.
Aside from that, back then i also noticed that you can do the shuttle room in which you shoot the left mainframe with a faster strategy. Something which gets used in the current strategy.
Now about your Luigi Raceway(and Sherbet Land)
Q: You said in the "Zwartjes LR" topic from 2005 that you were going to make a video showing some laps that were just as fast as in your 1'58"14 or at least close, but nothing came of that. At that moment you were busy playing Mario Kart Double Dash. There is a known effect in the community that playing a lot of Double Dash fucks up your ability to play well in MK64. Were you experiencing that effect and is that why you couldn't make that video happen? Or was it because of something else?
A: In 2005 i still didn't have recording equipment or a capture card. Besides that, my drive to really go for something was in comparison the 90s rather low. I seem to remember that i also stopped playing Double Dash fairly quickly.
Q: Your second 2-shroomer lap was the strongest lap in your 1'58"14 PR. It is that lap in particular what people like Daniel Burbank find very hard to believe. Even now in 2018 there is only one person that beat your split and that is VAJ(Vincent Tolhuis). Did you do something different than Matthias did in the current world record? Something with the mystery boost maybe? I think not and that you just did it with better gliding and shorter slides etc. but i still ask it just in case.
A: The so called mystery boost isn't even possible on a 2-shroomer on LR. In order to get a very strong 2-shroomer you must take the last turn through the grass along the wall really very tight. Aside from that, the angle and spot at which you go into the grass is essential to come out perfectly on the asphalt just before the last shroom runs out. Nailing that turn is the key to getting a strong time and you accomplish this by "feeling" it after a long session. Of course, spacing is also important like on every course. Especially on the first turn i set in my last SSMT before the 4 MTs relatively late. Doing that prevents you from doing unnecessarily long slides in the turn because you otherwise would come out to early with the last MT during the turn.
Q: Back then you were also playing Sherbet Land but failed in scoring a PR. You said that your best 1-shroomer there was a 38"51. You had the potential to go below the 1'56 by a good bit. That failed and you just gave up? Does it still bother you that you never finished a good 3lap?
A: On Sherbet Land i have always felt i had the most potential. You can gain so much time on this track by cutting each lakejump from the outside to the inside as good as possible and jumping over as big a hole as possible. Something that entails the necessary risks.
Just like in LR 3lap i didn't want to settle for half the work and thus i played with the neccessary risks. I purposely wanted to set a time that is close to my potential or that realizes it and not half the work. Something which bothers me that i could not make it happen on SL. Very glad that i persevered this hard on LR where i finally pulled through. :)
Some extra questions.
Q: Any idea if the Elsässer's are still reachable? It looks like they aren't on facebook and seem to have disappeared. Iacopo couldn't find them anywhere either.
A: I think that you found Rene on Facebook in the meantime. The Elsässer's haven't been active in gaming for years i think. I'm curious about their daily life and if they still possess or know something essential from that time.
Q: Are you still in touch with other old school dutch karters/gamers like Michael Liem, Piet den Dulk, Edwin Peeters, whoever...can you tell them about the topic and link it to them? Maybe they can then tell us something that isn't yet known. Every bit of information is appreciated! They don't even have to be dutch necessarily, people like Kevin Booth are also more than welcome to share their thoughts and information.
A: I noticed that because of this recently created topic that a lot of people from back in the day respond to it which i really like.
Some people i haven't seen in a long time. Fortunately there will soon be the world championship for SMK which i will attend. Nice to see everyone again and to chat a lot.
I would indeed find it interesting to talk with people online like Sargoth or Kevin Booth who won't be there to reminisce about stories from back in the day.
2 bonus questions. They are completely optional and you don't have to answer them if you don't want to. I just ask them because i'm curious. :)
Q: What kind of work do you do?
A: I work at LIDL(Supermarket chain) at the office as a purchaser and i manage 70 affiliates all day which i analyze with the numbers of those affiliates, where i also use my programs for which i made myself. The ultimate goal is to ensure that every day all the trade i purchase gets put in the right spot and of the right amount in all 70 affiliates. This job does fit well with my drive in gaming from back in the day to always search for a not obvious solution. I have been doing this for 4 years and i'm happy that i finally do work that suits me.
Q: At a certain moment you were really starting to work out/train. What are you PR's for that(like Benchpress, 100m sprint, pushups for example)? The reason why i'm asking is because i'm planning to start working out this year.
A: The reason why i began training is perhaps more interesting than the PRs which i reached there. I have been rather insecure since the start of high school(high school starts at age 12 in the Netherlands so would be more like middle school in America). I had few friends, was extremely skinny and was years behind socially. The arrogance which i was so good at showing online would be hard to find back in real life. I would preferably then isolate myself in my room in which the frequency of gaming i did would easily get out of hand. My all time low in terms of body weight was when i was 21 years old: 66 kg(145 lbs) at a height of 1.95 m(approximately 6'5"). My body fat percentage was merely 6%. I always ate like a lunatic but couldn't gain any weight. 6000 kilo calories intake per day was quite normal. I was fed up with being so slender and being literally overlooked. I then began with weight training when i was 21. That also turned out to be necessary. The first time i bench-pressed was with only the bar(20 kg / 44 lbs) and was also a quite confronting but hilarious moment. After 2 reps i couldn't get the bar off of my chest and i was stuck under a mini weight. I then had to be rescued out of my awkward position by a fellow gym visitor. Just like with games i quickly set goals in my mind. It directly became 6 times training a week. In a few months time my body weight increased to 78 kg (172 lbs approx) and i already felt a lot more secure. When i was 23 i was still exercising fanatically and i achieved a body weight of 95 kg (210 lbs approx.). That year i felt i was physically at my strongest. To get back to your question i was then bench-pressing 125 kg(275 lbs approx.) for 6 reps. I also did 4 sets of push-ups of a 100 reps every other day.
When i was 23 i went to live on my own and wanted to turn everything around. I was especially very much behind things socially and didn't even learn very simple things at all yet.
I found a friend which experienced the same thing and also didn't carry over the same stuff when he moved out to live on his own. We decided to give ourselves challenging but still reachable tasks. I had to start from afar. My first task was to talk with an old man in the bus. It seems so simple but for me it was quite something. We felt a bit more secure every time after completing a task. We did things like talk to a girl in the pub, give a speech to a big group until we finally gave each other random tasks which we had to do immediately. After a certain point i dared to do everything and didn't give a fuck what all the world thought about me. I did everything i wanted to do and i always succeeded too.
Apparently that is how life works when you have confidence. It was a time which i look back to very proudly and it changed my life drastically. What i didn't think about was the fact how arrogant i was at the end of that period. Something that somebody close to me had to tell me before i really realized the effect that my behavior had on other people.
Something which in the following years after i hopefully brought more into balance.
Now i finally found the love of my life, i'm happily married and i can lead the life that i want.
It is admittedly a life without gaming but it is because of my past as a gamer that i am here where i am now today.
I do notice now while i have been browsing through game forums recently that i'm really starting to get the urge to pick up the controller again so who knows. :)
Thanks for the nice questions, Stefan. I hope to bring a nice video online soon.
Besides, judging from a pic he send me once, there isn't even enough vertical room to have both a gameshark and GE cartridge plugged in the n64 in the spot he's keeping his console anyway.
Steven Z is the most successful con man in the history of the elite.Not sure about most successful since at least 90 percent of the people here arent buying his claims for a second! In 15 years hes showed 2 videos 1 of something everyones tried in aztec a few times and 1 of his masterful use of a gameshark... if people are still drinking the punch after that theyll believe anything.
When even Jimbo is cringing you know you've reached legendary levels of cringe.
I have been fooling around a bit with a new aztec strat though and its faster than the current strat. It involves starting out with 2.4 control style luring the guard in the cutscene in the launch protocol room. He will walk all the way to Bonds starting position. Lure him and the mainframe guard again when standing against the glass. This way you immediately have 2 guards ready to run to the glass and open it.
...
Pwned
Pwned
Pwned
Pwned
Pwned
No Clipping X-Coordinate
D0064F31 0030 // Wait until byte 30 is at some address to execute the next instruction:
800B03ED 0050 // Constantly write byte 50 to some address
880B03ED 0000 // Writes 00 to some address when you press the GS button apparently
Pwned
Wait, before we call him a complete fraud, wasn't he a highly respected Goldeneye Champion with proven-ish times back in the day?! I wouldn't say that ALL of his times were fake.I'm sure Lance Armstrong would have been a pretty talented cyclist even if he hadn't doped, and maybe he even won some races clean. The point is that once someone has lost credibility, it becomes impossible to know which records are and aren't fake.
You guys really are more disgusting than I could have ever imagined. How can you treat people like this. It is a big shame this forum has gotten so rotten.
Its such a joke. You are all so wrong about all the made assumptions. And you will find out sooner or later.
I insist all my Goldeneye times will be removed.
I no longer want to be part of anything related to the goldeneye community. This is by far the worst and most diseased community I have ever seen.
I hope you are all happy now and proud of yourselves.
Are there posts/topics of the Runway 23/Dam 54 etc from the stone ages? It would be nice to revisit those and see how things were in the early days.
Are there posts/topics of the Runway 23/Dam 54 etc from the stone ages? It would be nice to revisit those and see how things were in the early days.
His LTK times are still up.
without any consideration
it's mostly sad from a historic perspective, as me and Woll have worked hard to build up the WR database
Wow. This went south quickly. For starters, has anyone actually proven that the person posting is Steven? Would be a real shame for a troll to impersonate and get someone removed.
Wow. This went south quickly. For starters, has anyone actually proven that the person posting is Steven? Would be a real shame for a troll to impersonate and get someone removed.
Despite claims every time that this is pretty much the last one. I'm all for a proven rankings but not at the cost of history.
Who is claiming it will be the last time it happens? And in what sane universe does history take precedent over recent and relevant evidence of foul play?...
You may just be ignorant of the full breadth of the situation, so if that is true I'd just recommend reading up on all the stuff here and in the mario kart community.
In the opinion of almost every council member, SZ has displayed in his actions nearly every quality a caught cheater exhibits. If you don't agree after seeing everything he has written, there's nothing anyone can really say to change your opinion.
This case is particularly important because of the historical impact Steven had in the rankings and in other communities.
And yes, I am of the opinion that it should be nearly impossible to remove someone from the ranks without incontrovertible proof of cheating. I'm a fan of "innocent until proven guilty". At the very least, I'm happy to go on record as stating that I believe the Council's decision to be premature, unless there is some major evidence I'm unaware of. Thanks.
^100% agree
(https://i.imgur.com/AvOMaht.png)
Read the last lines of that Sagan quote especially.
The grandfathering principle should be applied here to some extent if you ask me though (he was active in a time when video proof was hard to come by).
To Fried:
Quote:
he mailed some tapes of his scores in other games to a few people, but I wouldn't consider that sufficient enough for him to be one of the most trusted gamers ever. The first person to come to mind when you talk about good proof reputation would probably be Bukrim. With him I've found that you don't even have to ask if he has a vid of one of his times or scores, you just know he has it, is willing to send it to you, and doesn't hide strats.
Ok, in a situation with currently active players, that'd be right.
However, you need to keep in mind that Steven is from a different era. During most of the time he was active, almost no one was able to transfer videos to a computer. At the start of his career even the idea of putting nintendo runs on a VHS tape and sending them to other people was quite rare. Most people just relied on trust and screenshots.
This made video game validation a bit different from now. New records could never be proven directly after getting them. You'd need to trust the player for several months, until he sends a videotape to a trustworthy webmaster. And even then you need to rely on the word of the webmaster. When someone has proven himself one or more times, he'll just get a good reputation. People were generally thankful that so many people were reliable enough to make an online video competition like this possible.
In the current MKDD competition with instant video uploading, it's often the other way around. People don't use the word trust/reputation anymore. They just use the principle: "PR with online video" = "true PR" / "PR without online video" = "possibly fake time and probably hoarded strat", no matter if the player is trusted or not. Proof reputation and trust just isn't a big issue anymore to some players (which i find very unfortunate).
What you say about Bukrim now, is what gamers from 1997-1999 would say about Zwartjes. Steven was very often online to discuss and share all his strats. He actively contacted his fellow gamers to talk about strats. He posted strategy guides on Iacopo's site. He actively sent out tons of VHS tapes to the webmasters, and also to many other players he wasn't even required to send his proof to. He just did that because he wanted to show his strats to other people. And the live-witnessing by REX and Iacopo (the most important gamers/webmasters in Europe back then) made his reputation as good as possible, since that competely ruled out any possible form of vid faking (subtle gamesharking / vid editing, illegal controllers, faking your identity).
Not that this will have any affect on this decision but I witnessed the 17 Archives UWR when he got it at my house.
He was also, as far as I know, the first to come up with the grenade strategy on Runway and quite likely the first to get the glass open on Aztec. Talking about both these before others duplicated it lends credibility doesn't it? Did any on the council talk to those who witnessed him play personally or see some of his taped runs?
Being highly skilled and lying/cheating are not mutually exclusive.
I will literally never understand people who argue a player's skill level being high is somehow evidence in itself that they didn't or wouldn't cheat, when 99% of caught cheaters in speedrunning as a whole are skilled/top players.
I dont exaggerate. It is just that you dont believe Henrik when he says the strategy is impossible. You are willing to believe a claim without proof, but unwilling to believe a claim with mountains of evidence and something that can be proven.
Also anecdotel evidence is not proof last time I checked.
Edit: I tried forcing the sidestep/sidehop/running sideways animations and as I suspected, the game checks for obstacles (such as the glass door) and will always chose a direction that leads away from it. So as long as the guard is close enough to the glass, he won't step/hop/run towards it.
Just to clarify, it's impossible according to our current understanding of how glass openings work.
I need to play 10 hours straight to get something decent to work. My skilllevel dropped, the desire to play 10 hours straight
Whether it was the right decision or not he asked for his times to be removed from the rankings anyways which is within his right so if that's what he wanted anyways why not honor the request?
A witnessed time was never proof. Witnessed times were accepted without proof, they werent proven.
I've proved my skill over at michael coes house and showed him my times that's proof enough.
Just as long as someone else from the Elite can verify your times that is considered proof enough. It would be stupid if you had to put it on the net as not every has a capture card.
The difference between Henning's Cav 00A 1:33 and Zwartjes' proven records from 1998 is that Henning did all the splicing before he got/claimed Cav 1:33 on a meeting (and probably after the meeting too). I'm not even fighting for Archives 17 to be up since it has no video. However, having Zwartjes' proven times up vs Henning's "proven" times up is not the same logic and I'm sorry that my arguments get twisted and deliberately misinterpreted and that you choose to draw the wrong conclusions from fair, reasonable and objective standpoints/questions. Henning, for instance, was never banned from PD despite him doing much worse things than Zwartjes i.e. faking videos. I'm asking why Zwartjes' proven times also were removed? It even contradicts the policy. Shouldn't he be treated like all the other cheaters before him?
QuoteEdit: I tried forcing the sidestep/sidehop/running sideways animations and as I suspected, the game checks for obstacles (such as the glass door) and will always chose a direction that leads away from it. So as long as the guard is close enough to the glass, he won't step/hop/run towards it.
This is your quote Henrik. Steven's strat relied on the guard running to the glass door and opening it (once you shoot near the guard). You've stated here that the game will never allow this to happen due to the way the game checks for obstacles.
Ergo, the strat is impossible.QuoteJust to clarify, it's impossible according to our current understanding of how glass openings work.
I am not defending Zwartjes, I am questioning the evidence leading to the verdict. So many of you have convinced yourselves of one option that you can't see any other. And it may be the right verdict! Keep that in mind! I believe it may be the right verdict!
Compared with the current 2 guard strat he closes the mainframe before going to the glass about 3 seconds faster.
Steven had no linked videos on his page or his PR history, so there was no proven times to backroll to. I don't think Steven is 'banned' and I don't think there would be a problem with any proven times being on the ranks. I will raise with the council to try to get this to happen.
This is definitely going too far. Threatening to make a Todd Rogers video of SZ really amounts to slander (or sensationalism). You guys and your mob mentality are being absolutely horrible to Zwartjes.
Did he mention if he closed it himself or if it was already closed?
You are luring the wrong guy Wink
u have to lure the one that is standing next to the gate that is opening and closing not the one in the back.
when u lure him closing the gate right after that he should be slow and open it some later.
at that time u are already standing next to the glass that has to open. SHoot some bullets now and hide in the place behind the wall near the mainframe.
Now he has to open the door for you.
chances are so small he is doing that because sometimes he even comes running straight to you
but it is possible after u have tried 10 hours u know it is
All guys gone except the one behind the mainframe door.strafe to him.show yourself and by doing this let the door rise.he should be slow and open it some later again.back up and get in the place next to the glassdoor.shoot a few bullets on the door where guy comes out. (dont hit him Wink)
the bullets make an indication for the computer to the place u have been the last (while shooting).
the place u shoot last is the place where the enemy will try to find u IF he did not have eye contact with u and follows the noise.
(I made loads of advantage of this in the early LTK days Smiley like runway the guys keep appearing if u kill them, the trick is to lure them with a shot and then hide.
the guard will walk to the place u took your shot.of course u where shooting near a wall so the guy stands there stupidly with his face towards the wall Grin) Do this with all guards and u have a safe walk to the plane Smiley)
Anyways back to Aztec:
the moment the door is about to go down (this is about right after u took your shot) hide quickly in the spot near the mainframe. the guard walks to the glassdoor and should open it immediately.
this is where it gets fucked up because there is only guard who is willing to do it instead of the 3 guards in the strat u guys all use thus chances are absurdly low for it to happen.but if u have patience it will happen.
I'm done with this board now, I just wanted to say how disgusted I am with what this place has become in the last few years. So disappointing.
I completely agree.I been around for a couple years but basically just am a lurker. People always give this community a bad name. One thing people hate here is someone trying to insult their intelligence, and when anyone tries to do that, then they will get backlash from the members here. Alot of newer players take it the wrong way, but you gotta understand these guys have been playing this game for 10-20 years and when someone tries to act like they know it all or trying to pull the wool over their eyes like SZ, it offends them.
This horrible, toxic little community is the reason I gave up playing this game. I really don't get why Goose has gone after SZ in quite this fashion but he's really shown himself up as a petty little prick. He's also tried to spread this slanderous nonsense to the MK boards, although thankfully most of them have the sense to ignore him.
I'm done with this board now, I just wanted to say how disgusted I am with what this place has become in the last few years. So disappointing.
I completely agree.You registered an account 10 minutes before this just to tell us how toxic we are and your done with this community... do you even know the circumstances behind why this strat is so heavily believed to be fake?
This horrible, toxic little community is the reason I gave up playing this game. I really don't get why Goose has gone after SZ in quite this fashion but he's really shown himself up as a petty little prick. He's also tried to spread this slanderous nonsense to the MK boards, although thankfully most of them have the sense to ignore him.
I'm done with this board now, I just wanted to say how disgusted I am with what this place has become in the last few years. So disappointing.
I completely agree.You registered an account 10 minutes before this just to tell us how toxic we are and your done with this community... do you even know the circumstances behind why this strat is so heavily believed to be fake?
This horrible, toxic little community is the reason I gave up playing this game. I really don't get why Goose has gone after SZ in quite this fashion but he's really shown himself up as a petty little prick. He's also tried to spread this slanderous nonsense to the MK boards, although thankfully most of them have the sense to ignore him.
I'm done with this board now, I just wanted to say how disgusted I am with what this place has become in the last few years. So disappointing.
What has Steven done in any community that makes people so loyal to him? Im super confused, besides some non proof screenshots of his mario times and ever changing vague strategy descriptions he provides the Goldeneye community Im at a loss for why people believe him.
Quote from: Wyst3r on Today at 03:21:15 AM
Did he mention if he closed it himself or if it was already closed?
According to Disco's description of what Zwartjes told him (quoted above), it sounds like it was already closed to me.
Just so others are clear, Shadow's posts are full of fake news, bias, and deception.
This is a clear case of trying to muddy the waters and shows clear bias. Shadow intentionally ignores the fact that Steven clearly described closing the mainframe door twice, and even posted a video of his strategy where he closes the mainframe. He then claims that a second-hand recounting of the strategy indicates an opposite fact by simple omission.
Worth pointing out that the shooting at the guard while he's at the glass is part of the "backup" strat according to Steven, he claims the guard can also open it immediately once he gets to the glass(he suggests that the success of that is mostly dependent on the relative angle and spot of Bond at the glass while luring iirc). From what i understand, it's also better if the mainframe was already closed at arrival since you don't have to close that manually then. They only way i could see it being real is if the 1:31 and 1:33 on Agent are done without bothering with the backup strat and the 2:03 might be done with it. Not sure though, just guessing there.
Were quick pauses even known to speed up pauses in the 01 02 era?
Karl, purely for curiosity's sake, do you remember how Steven's 1:31 got on the ranks? Did he post it to his geocities times page or did someone say something like "Steven got 1:31, it needs to be on the ranks"?
I'm only asking because given his rather sporadic forum presence in those days, and typical behavior, it wouldn't surprise me to hear that he made the claim to someone on AIM or something.
Wayback Machine only seems to have kept his page through 2002, the ones after won't display for me.
https://web.archive.org/web/20020222064510/http://www.geocities.com:80/goldensteve2000/
just put an asterisk next to his stuff for the GEWR database if you want
I always make these videos tastefully, while respecting the subject of the video.
Zwartjes has done absolutely zero to help himself throughout these events, pretty much just has Shadow's remarkable stubbornness for support.
I tried the SZ Aztec strat last night for a few hours, but I could only get it to work with invisibility. (And not using Bond as the "second guard.") I did most of my runs with invincible/agent or 007 mode and invisibility off. As I understand it, you can lure one guard between the center and right frames, and if he stops between the two at the right point, and is facing toward the glass, he can open it if he performs the correct animation once alerted. He also does this sort of walking in a circle to reposition himself animation if you're not quick enough with the alert shot.
It could work, but I'm not putting the time in at my skill level. Is it faster? Nah. Something else might have saved time on the SZ run. Or maybe, like me, he acted like it worked and gave himself credit for it, and after enough time, he couldn't remember not doing it legit. (The first time I beat Aztec I actually gamesharked it and lied for years until I 100%ed the game in 2012, the file I use now.)
And really, most of the people I respect and defend I really have no cause to do so. I just want to believe in someone more skilled so I can keep upping my game. SZ and others were those people in other games.
(And I didn't record because for the foreseeable future, I have no way of uploading anything that isn't on my phone until I move out of the internet deadzone I live in now - and probably will stop recording my PRs too.)
Why is this thread still open?
Why is this thread still open?
Money for bounty is raised.BRB secretly turning on invisible for the euros :kappa:
It is now:
110 for with backup
125 for without it
If anybody likes to add more, feel free to message me on the forums or on discord.
BTW this is in euros, so 110 euros would be about 128 dollars for example.
Hello all.
I think its been 15 years since my last post :)
I see alot has changed during all these years.
A lot of new talent, new worldchampions and most importantly a big social group of people who are willing to combine forces to get these games to an insanely high level.
I must admit after seeing a post about me after 15 years of inactivety I was kinda flattered.
After google-ing Todd Rogers I am not sure I should be ;).
It actually kinda hurts after 100s of hours of time I put into many games to read people always had doubts about my achievements.
Reason enough for me to dust up the old cartridges. The post triggered me to do at least something which is a positive thing I guess.
For me alot has changed over the years though.
Im a happy 39 years old married man now with 2 kids, a nice job and a good social life.
Gaming is not really on my priority list anymore but after playing a bit of Goldeneye last week I still feel I have a gaming heart.
I remember back in the days Patrick Wessels and I were late, running like hell to get the train just in time.
We decided to keep a left strafe all the way so we should de faster...yes bin there...:p
Alrhough i have other priorities now l still like to complete some proof on tape, camera or capture card. I might not finish this today or tomorrow but it will happen eventually.
I hope to finish this all with a suprise video, but also still working on that :)
In the meantime I will finish the interview with the nice questions Stefan Kok asked me and I will try to put some detail in some of the questions.
Also thank you for all the help so far Stefan :)
Im out now.
Will be back soon.
A story I want to work on next is that of the "legend" Steven Zwartjes, and his similarities to Todd Rogers.
FWIW, I think some people perceive this as "blackmailing" or an attempt at character assassination because of Goose's suggestion of lumping Steven in with Todd Rogers. As Goose said himself in the kart forum topic "Steven Zwartjes... the Todd Rogers of N64?":QuoteA story I want to work on next is that of the "legend" Steven Zwartjes, and his similarities to Todd Rogers.
Todd Rogers and Billy Mitchell are hot topics these days and make excellent clickbait and bring in that sweet, sweet ad revenue. Goose is being careful to parse his words by posing "questions" and looking at "similarities" but honestly the mere mention of Zwartjes and Rogers in the same breath is enough for some people, who don't know any better, to instantly form that connection in their mind that Zwartjes must be just as bad as Rogers (regardless of how carefully Goose chooses to parse his words).
The biggest difference I see between Rogers/Mitchell and Zwartjes is that there is hard, objective, empirical evidence that Rogers and Mitchell falsified times (Roger's impossible Dragster time, among others, and Mitchell's video that shows conclusive proof of emulation). As far as I'm aware, there is no hard evidence that Zwartjes ever cheated. Sure, there are aspects of his times that seem suspicious and unlikely (and I'm fully supportive of the times being backrolled), but there is a distinct and important difference between having suspicious times/exhibiting suspicious behavior and having hard evidence of actual cheating. The other important difference between Zwartjes and Rogers is that Rogers has literally hundreds/thousands of falsified scores where Zwartjes has what, 2?
If you want to retcon your rankings based on suspicion, I honestly have no issue with that (though others might), but I think the standards of proof must be higher if you want to start publicly equating Zwartjes to Todd Rogers (even if it's only a suggestive equivalence).
It seems like a lot of people have already made up their minds about this and have exhibited less than mature behavior in this thread. I think the word "toxic" has been used once or twice and that seems to be an apt description. Also, FWIW, I feel like Shadow is completely on point.
To be clear, I'm not defending Zwartjes (I agree that he hasn't done himself any favors lately - though maybe he would have been more inclined to if he had a warmer reception) and I'm not against making a video about him, but if a video is made I think it needs to be done in a way that doesn't sling his name through the mud in a blatant attempt to cash in on it.
almost none of this thread has been arguing about how similar SZ is to todd/billy.This really is a shame, as I think that's the crucial thing at stake here.
that whole argument and what goose will or will not do with how he covers SZ has no relation to the individual rankings based considerations the-elite council has made regarding SZ.It sounds like SZ doesn't care about staying up on the rankings, so that sort of seems like a bit of a non-issue now (other than maybe the procedural point of not allowing players to ragequit and remove themselves - but I'm no expert on your proof policy so I'll defer to someone who is). Perhaps I missed it, other than a handful of posts by Axel a few pages back regarding the WR history, but is anyone still arguing to keep Steven on the ranks? I'm not sure I understand what this has to do with any of the most recent posts in this thread. Seems like a bit of a non-sequitur.
SZ's most unlikely claimed times have been in question long before those other two people were caught cheating.I'm not sure I understand what point you're trying to make here other than just stating the completely obvious. The only reason this entire thread exists is because of Goose's stated intention to create a video titled: "Steven Zwartjes... The Todd Rogers of N64?". It seems like the natural outcome of that stated intention would be a discussion involving those people.
After investigating this situation for over 3 months now, I've decided long ago on a few things;
- not using Zwartjes name in the title of the video- not using Todd Rogers name in the title of the video
- not using a picture of Zwartjes in the thumbnail
- not mentioning any personal information that could affect SZ in any way (mentioning only his name, his country of origin, and the events he apparently attended in the 1990s)
-he gained no notable money or fame. Certainly no Guinness record
His situation is far closer to that of Todd Rogers than myself for the following reasons:
- SZ and Todd both used social proof and an army of defenders to get by without having to prove his claims for 15-30 years
- SZ and Todd were both extremely vague in describing exactly how they achieved their most notorious claims, often contracting their previous explanations over the years
- SZ and Todd both gave explanations which the people who understand the game best unanimously agree to not be possible
-- on this point specifically, how can you disprove Dragster 5.51? Can you? If so, how? And if so, how is this any different than the way we've disproven SZ's "one guard glass open" strategy?
- SZ and Todd both came forward, offering to prove their notorious claims, years later, only after interest was piqued in these cases by speedrunning & gaming historians
- SZ and Todd both planted seeds at the time they offered to prove their notorious claims, by suggesting they "weren't as good at the game anymore," "the game didn't mean much to them anymore as they had families and have moved on" and other standard things that serial liars tell as an "out". Note that "not being as good at the game anymore" is not a legitimate excuse, as virtually every player who has come back to these sorts of gamers after years of absence, actually quickly improve past their previous ability (Karl, Randy, Shawn Johnson, etc)
- SZ and Todd both recanted on their offer to "prove" their notorious claims after people began realizing they weren't possible, and both SZ and Todd claimed this was due to "the community being mean"
For these reasons I have every reason to legitimately compare SZ to Todd Rogers in an honest journalistic manner. In fact, it would be journalistically dishonest if I did not compare him to Todd Rogers.
Why is this thread still open?
Locking threads is legitimately the most foolish, redundant, pointless thing you can possibly do in the history of the internet. What purpose does locking a thread serve? If it has offending content in it, that gets deleted. Locking threads causes people who want to continue the discussion at hand, to simply make more threads and continue to flood the boards. Locking threads is an absolute net negative under every circumstance. Locking threads is just the corrupt moderators going "nyah nyah, now you can be teased and enticed by this thread's existence but you can't post in it! Losers!" It's completely antagonizing and villainous.
- SZ and Todd both gave explanations which the people who understand the game best unanimously agree to not be possible
-- on this point specifically, how can you disprove Dragster 5.51? Can you? If so, how? And if so, how is this any different than the way we've disproven SZ's "one guard glass open" strategy?
His situation is far closer to that of Todd Rogers than myself for the following reasons:
-- on this point specifically, how can you disprove Dragster 5.51? Can you? If so, how? And if so, how is this any different than the way we've disproven SZ's "one guard glass open" strategy?
In fact, it would be journalistically dishonest if I did not compare him to Todd Rogers.Bit strong I think. Your videos (beyond the thumbnail / title) are generally quite balanced though, with the odd one based on some dodgy maths :p
I'm not an expert in either game, but I have probably a better-than-average understanding of both simply by being interested in and following the developments in both cases. From my understanding (which is admittedly based on the work of others), the key difference between the two is that the Dragster code is so simple that the possibility space can be exhaustively explored from a rigorous, mathematical standpoint to essentially prove that a 5.51 is not possible given any possible sequence of inputs (see this video by Omnigamer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v7a29O7OkM)).
On the other hand, the source code for GoldenEye is several orders of magnitude more complex than a game like Dragster (which is why you have kooky shit like lookdown, strafing, warps, clips, etc.). This is definitely reaching the limits of my ability to speak knowledgeably, so I'll defer to someone like Henrik who can probably do a much better job. But, I'd be pretty surprised if anyone claimed that the possibility space of Aztec is as rigorously explored and understood as that of Dragster.
I don't know what method the people used to attempt to get it to work, did people mostly try it without the backup?
Note that "not being as good at the game anymore" is not a legitimate excuse, as virtually every player who has come back to these sorts of gamers after years of absence, actually quickly improve past their previous ability (Karl, Randy, Shawn Johnson, etc)
All of this seems to confirm
This is now proven
Wow! Henrik EPICALLY OWNS SZ with a tidy COMPENDIUM of inalterable FACTS, TRUTH & KNOWLEDGE and COMPLETELY SHUTS DOWN all hope SZ's supporters had of REDEMPTION! Yikes!
--
This is now proven to be equally as impossible as Dragster 5.51. Steven Z is literally the Todd Rogers of N64.
This is now proven to be equally as impossible as Dragster 5.51.
You are the one guilty of sensationalism if you're trying to sound the alarm that I'm going to completely destroy SZ's life, get him fired from work, divorced, and have his wife take custody of his kids.
The hyperbole in this thread is ridiculous. SZ is being BLACKMAILED and DEFAMED and WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN.
Yeah, many posts here are ridiculous. Let him defend himself instead, which he would if this was that important to him. I would if my wife, children and job were at stake, like quite a few here seem to think it is for him.
If your wife leaves you and takes the kids because of a video on youtube about you possibly faking some times on a video game your relationship probably wasnt working out to begin with...
If your wife leaves you and takes the kids because of a video on youtube about you possibly faking some times on a video game your relationship probably wasnt working out to begin with...
All of this seems to confirmThis is now proven
I'm curious if Henrik shares your conclusion, though I suspect he might demur given his previous comments on Dragster and his apparent intellectual honestly.
I haven't looked at the Dragster case myself, but yeah, it should be possible to actually prove stuff through assembly code analysis if it's simple enough. In the case of Goldeneye you're correct, it's far too complex.
It’s not about his wife and kids. It’s closely linking him with Todd Rogers. Maybe not in your line of work. But employers do look
Up their potential employees. Todd Rogers has a bad reputation, soo much soonthat non speed run people know him. More and more these sorts of
Things are putting people in trouble
The glass start working or not isn’t really relevant. It probably doesn’t work and he probably lied.
The question is what is a proportionate response
Goose appears to have a conflict of interest here. He wants a shocking click bait like title to make
Money, but you don’t really have anything like the evidence to claim them as similar.
Because of this his view is being skewered. SZ is more like the guy he covered on his gta video than Todd
This statement informed my interpretation of his most recent response, which appears to corroborate his use of "seems". Like I said, I'm curious if he agrees with your take (or was it just a meme?) that this constitutes "proof".
FWIW, I have no stake in this and I'm not discounting Henrik's findings. Just consider me to be QA. If Henrik states that his findings are as rigorous as the Dragster findings, I think that would constitute a win. If not, then at the very least we are collectively becoming more knowledgeable about the game.
This is now proven to be equally as impossible as Dragster 5.51.
What even.
I'm by no means putting down Henrik's neat (as ever) analysis, but this is just showing how it works for 2 guards. The 2 lines to the object which it's trying to avoid are a really nice find, but probably aren't too relevant to 1 guard. And I'd agree that the red target position probably needs to go into the glass to get the guard to open it (I didn't look into it too much but I think it at least flicked behind the door on s1 each time I got the door open), but this doesn't, by any stretch of the imagination, categorically rule out 1-guard.
Henrik's post is quite interesting and demonstrates the working of the second guard openings quite well, the red target position line must most certainly be inside the glass in order to have a glass opening occur. Should be useful for Goose to show in his video at least. But this honestly doesn't prove that it's impossible imo. I'd say that you'll need to find a way to prove that the red target position can never under any circumstance go inside the glass while doing the one guard lure. SZ mentioned some stuff that the angles(from Bond and the Guard approaching the glass) were important in order to make it work iirc. But i'm no expert, just floating thoughts. In the end the only one that should bother with this is Steven himself, since he was the one who claimed it worked.
For anybody that wants to find more about the Dragster case, feel free to read through the Dispute thread from Twin Galaxies(good luck, it's 5400+ posts long lol) https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/175364-Dispute-Dick-Moreland-Atari-2600-VCS-Dragster-NTSC-Game-1-Difficulty-B-Fastest-Time-Player-Todd-Rogers-Score-05-51/page2
In most disciplines, evidence is required to prove something. Evidence is drawn from experience of the world around us, with science obtaining its evidence from nature,[11] law obtaining its evidence from witnesses and forensic investigation,[12] and so on. A notable exception is mathematics, whose proofs are drawn from a mathematical world begun with axioms and further developed and enriched by theorems proved earlier.
Exactly what evidence is sufficient to prove something is also strongly area-dependent, usually with no absolute threshold of sufficiency at which evidence becomes proof.[13][14][15] In law, the same evidence that may convince one jury may not persuade another. Formal proof provides the main exception, where the criteria for proofhood are ironclad and it is impermissible to defend any step in the reasoning as "obvious" (except for the necessary ability of the one proving and the one being proven to, to correctly identify any symbol used in the proof.);[16] for a well-formed formula to qualify as part of a formal proof, it must be the result of applying a rule of the deductive apparatus of some formal system to the previous well-formed formulae in the proof sequence.[17]
A fact is a statement that is consistent with objective reality or can be proven with evidence. The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability — that is, whether it can be demonstrated to correspond to experience. Standard reference works are often used to check facts. Scientific facts are verified by repeatable careful observation or measurement (by experiments or other means).
One thing that I'm surprised nobody is mentioning is, let's say Steven is telling the truth. Would he really get a 30-odd second untied once on a level - using a strategy that it allegedly took him "1 hour" to do - and never played the level again?!
Surely if he discovered this he would have had to have grinded it down to 1:50, 1:45, 1:40 and so on, but NO, 1 fucking 31 straight away.
Of course this isn't proof per se, but it just makes it even more un-believable.
I think what we have atm is not proof but some degree of confidence
^ The different strategy i'm referring to is pretty much the one he posted on the MK boards, where he shows himself to the guard, closes the mainframe manually and the guard then opens the glass right away at arrival(not noting anything resembling that he bothered planning for the backup). To me it seems that he claimed that that was the strat he used for Agent(since he was being questioned on his 1:31 strat there) and for his 2:03 00A he used the backup(which he claimed earlier than his Agent times), which makes sense to me due to 1:31 and 1:33 being ludicrously fast for 2002 if you're including the backup. But take it for what it is, no reason to discuss this further. Like i said earlier, Steven is the only one who should put effort into proving/disproving the strat.
Sorry just to clarify
Did SZ put up the claimed time on the rankings? So did he “officially” have a near 30 second untied? Did that not flag something back then?
I'm fairly sure the Netherlands has a pretty rigorous justice system and has no shortage of lawyers familiar with international laws regarding defamation. If SZ actually loses his job because of Goose's video, he will be perfectly entitled to take legal action against Goose in a court of law, where he will no doubt be legally required to show his strategy in action.
Ultimately, if you think that Goose is jumping the gun without all the evidence, it is Goose you should be concerned about. It is entirely up to him whether he believes he has enough evidence to go to press because he is the one taking the risk by publishing the video.
...
Sterling, 1998.7.4 - 2001.2.26 (968 days)
Martin, 1998.3.14 - 1998.7.4 (112 days)
Zwartjes, 1997.8.25 - 1998.3.14 (201 days)
Steven had no linked videos on his page or his PR history, so there was no proven times to backroll to. I don't think Steven is 'banned' and I don't think there would be a problem with any proven times being on the ranks. I will raise with the council to try to get this to happen.
Discussion’s already over but I’d like to add some quick thoughts.Why should he refrain from reporting on unscrupulous individuals just like every other journalistic medium does? What's special about games journalism that makes it exempt from reporting the bad along with the good?
First of all I just want to say that I really enjoy watching your videos Goose. I think you’ve got a great talent for speaking about stuff in a clear, fun and engaging way. Keep up the good work!
So here’s what I think about the idea of making this kind of a video in general, now that your channel has grown so much: Any time you make a video talking about an individual in an unsympathetic context (in this case a probable scam) you run a risk of painting him or her a target of harassment and ridicule in front of thousands of people. I can’t see how this could ever be a positive thing, even if the person happens to be guilty.
Nothing would probably happen IRL, especially since you seem to be careful about personal details. This is good. But you could do even better IMO and just decide not give this person any more spotlight than he’s already got. Little good can come from introducing him to 50k+ new people at this point.
Discussion’s already over but I’d like to add some quick thoughts.Why should he refrain from reporting on unscrupulous individuals just like every other journalistic medium does? What's special about games journalism that makes it exempt from reporting the bad along with the good?
First of all I just want to say that I really enjoy watching your videos Goose. I think you’ve got a great talent for speaking about stuff in a clear, fun and engaging way. Keep up the good work!
So here’s what I think about the idea of making this kind of a video in general, now that your channel has grown so much: Any time you make a video talking about an individual in an unsympathetic context (in this case a probable scam) you run a risk of painting him or her a target of harassment and ridicule in front of thousands of people. I can’t see how this could ever be a positive thing, even if the person happens to be guilty.
Nothing would probably happen IRL, especially since you seem to be careful about personal details. This is good. But you could do even better IMO and just decide not give this person any more spotlight than he’s already got. Little good can come from introducing him to 50k+ new people at this point.
That's fair enough man, we can only reach the truth by taking in the views of others. I would note that Goose already did a video when Billy Mitchell was removed from Twin Galaxies, which now has over 100,000 views. Do you think he shouldn't have done that, or do you think he should take that video down? I'm genuinely interested btw, not just asking rhetorically to jump down your throat.Discussion’s already over but I’d like to add some quick thoughts.Why should he refrain from reporting on unscrupulous individuals just like every other journalistic medium does? What's special about games journalism that makes it exempt from reporting the bad along with the good?
First of all I just want to say that I really enjoy watching your videos Goose. I think you’ve got a great talent for speaking about stuff in a clear, fun and engaging way. Keep up the good work!
So here’s what I think about the idea of making this kind of a video in general, now that your channel has grown so much: Any time you make a video talking about an individual in an unsympathetic context (in this case a probable scam) you run a risk of painting him or her a target of harassment and ridicule in front of thousands of people. I can’t see how this could ever be a positive thing, even if the person happens to be guilty.
Nothing would probably happen IRL, especially since you seem to be careful about personal details. This is good. But you could do even better IMO and just decide not give this person any more spotlight than he’s already got. Little good can come from introducing him to 50k+ new people at this point.
My starting point would be to never point my finger at anyone in front of a mass auidence (even if others do). Then I’d make exceptions from there depending on how severe the situation is. For example, could this person be a threat in any way? Could warning people about this help prevent a crime? Those would be a couple of good exceptions in my book which could warrant this kind of exposure.
But look, it wasn’t my intention to reignite this discussion. Just felt like voicing my opinions. Hopefully I’ve managed to make my reasoning clear.
That's fair enough man, we can only reach the truth by taking in the views of others. I would note that Goose already did a video when Billy Mitchell was removed from Twin Galaxies, which now has over 100,000 views. Do you think he shouldn't have done that, or do you think he should take that video down? I'm genuinely interested btw, not just asking rhetorically to jump down your throat.Discussion’s already over but I’d like to add some quick thoughts.Why should he refrain from reporting on unscrupulous individuals just like every other journalistic medium does? What's special about games journalism that makes it exempt from reporting the bad along with the good?
First of all I just want to say that I really enjoy watching your videos Goose. I think you’ve got a great talent for speaking about stuff in a clear, fun and engaging way. Keep up the good work!
So here’s what I think about the idea of making this kind of a video in general, now that your channel has grown so much: Any time you make a video talking about an individual in an unsympathetic context (in this case a probable scam) you run a risk of painting him or her a target of harassment and ridicule in front of thousands of people. I can’t see how this could ever be a positive thing, even if the person happens to be guilty.
Nothing would probably happen IRL, especially since you seem to be careful about personal details. This is good. But you could do even better IMO and just decide not give this person any more spotlight than he’s already got. Little good can come from introducing him to 50k+ new people at this point.
My starting point would be to never point my finger at anyone in front of a mass auidence (even if others do). Then I’d make exceptions from there depending on how severe the situation is. For example, could this person be a threat in any way? Could warning people about this help prevent a crime? Those would be a couple of good exceptions in my book which could warrant this kind of exposure.
But look, it wasn’t my intention to reignite this discussion. Just felt like voicing my opinions. Hopefully I’ve managed to make my reasoning clear.
That example I think is fine. Mostly just because Billy is more known than Goose. To greatly exaggerate to make a point; Obama makes a tweet about me VS the opposite. The former scenario would be overwhelming and scary where even the smallest uncharming thing he brings up could easily be blown out of proportion. In the latter scenario no worries, I could even be quite nasty on purpose but it wouldn’t matter much. To be clear I’m not comparing Goose to Obama (lol) nor do I think he says nasty things. The point is just that Goose is on a much higher level than the guy ITT, in this community and on YT and probably everywhere online. He’s well respected and popular. The other guy would not be able to counter in any meaningful way.Have you seen the Frigate Speedlore? An integral part of the episode was about Henning Blom who was removed from the rankings. That video has over 100,000 views, and I'm not aware that Henning has suffered personally from the video. Also, Goose is undeniably and by far the most well known person from the GE/PD scene, so if he only reports on controversy involving those with more exposure than him, that pretty much rules out him ever reporting on any drama from the Elite.
To be fair to Goose he did ask him if he wished to make any statements to be included in the video which I thought was very thoughtful of him.
That example I think is fine. Mostly just because Billy is more known than Goose. To greatly exaggerate to make a point; Obama makes a tweet about me VS the opposite. The former scenario would be overwhelming and scary where even the smallest uncharming thing he brings up could easily be blown out of proportion. In the latter scenario no worries, I could even be quite nasty on purpose but it wouldn’t matter much. To be clear I’m not comparing Goose to Obama (lol) nor do I think he says nasty things. The point is just that Goose is on a much higher level than the guy ITT, in this community and on YT and probably everywhere online. He’s well respected and popular. The other guy would not be able to counter in any meaningful way.Have you seen the Frigate Speedlore? An integral part of the episode was about Henning Blom who was removed from the rankings. That video has over 100,000 views, and I'm not aware that Henning has suffered personally from the video. Also, Goose is undeniably and by far the most well known person from the GE/PD scene, so if he only reports on controversy involving those with more exposure than him, that pretty much rules out him ever reporting on any drama from the Elite.
To be fair to Goose he did ask him if he wished to make any statements to be included in the video which I thought was very thoughtful of him.
Indeed I would wager that part of the reason you and many others like Goose's output is the storytelling aspect, which necessarily requires heroes, villains, controversy and conflict to weave a compelling narrative together. To clarify, I'm not saying your concerns are unfounded, but in the end, a good journalist has to be willing to follow the truth wherever it leads.
Goose neither cares about truth nor is a journalist.
The point is pretty simple, thousands of people watching these videos are socially unadjusted and thus should not be turned into a giant stupid mob. We've got enough of that problem going around these days in society. It's not something that can be avoided entirely but something to be careful about and goose is generally the opposite of careful.
My videos are of the highest journalistic integrity... my Chuya 206 video is the perfect example
How is this still an issue? Its not like Goose or anyone is picking on a guy that cheated 15 years ago, admitted his mistake, and is just some 40 year old man sitting at home with his wife and kids doing nothing. He is actively LYING years and years later. Your points would be valid if Goose just picked a name from 2 decades ago and wanted to light a torch on some unsuspecting guy that made a mistake in his childhood but this is completely different. Steven came back to the community to continue a lie he started as a teen. If that doesn't warrant condemnation then I don't know what does to be honest.
Granted its noble to defend the average guy we must not forget Steven sought this exposure. He didn't have to comeback, hardly anyone was even talking about Steven it was always just some crazy story from way back when. Steven brought this entire debacle onto himself. He did what every habitual liar does which is double down and hope people decide to believe him. Most of the Goldeneye community saw through this facade for what it was and quickly called bullshit. Steven knowing the game was up here quickly went into defensive mode playing victim and this entire thread is the aftermath.
So we're arguing justification for making a youtube video now. I assume we can all agree Steven is a liar now its a matter of punishment? And let me be clear I lied a bunch when I was a kid so I completely understand the mistake but the moment he came back to try and deceive the Elite and the MK community is where a line should be drawn. He wanted attention and he got it, unfortunately for him his plan to continue the lie backfired. Before you say that isn't enough to call someone out then lets look at the community as a whole. Stevens friends at the Mario Kart community and others Im sure are now under the impression that the Elite is full of a bunch of a holes that refuse to believe some strategy because they can't figure it out so go on a witch hunt. Which is the farthest thing from the truth but impressions mean everything. He harmed the community with his stunt and at the very least Goose deserves the right to defend the community and explain the situation while remaining as respectful as possible which he always does.
Goose neither cares about truth nor is a journalist.
The point is pretty simple, thousands of people watching these videos are socially unadjusted and thus should not be turned into a giant stupid mob. We've got enough of that problem going around these days in society. It's not something that can be avoided entirely but something to be careful about and goose is generally the opposite of careful.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
When have I *ever* done something careless on my YouTube channel?
My videos are of the highest journalistic integrity... my Chuya 206 video is the perfect example of looking deep into a case and coming out with a different conclusion than I had going in. No agenda. Just true journalism.
Can you name one example of where I've been careless on my YouTube channel?
Can you name one example of me being distruthful on my YouTube channel?
Honestly, it seems like Wheat has "Goose derangement syndrome" and just gets triggered by thinking of me. At night, Wheat puts his head on his pillow, ready to fall blissfully asleep, but then thoughts of me pass through his mind, his blood pressure spikes, and he stays up all night enraged about it. Truly embarrassing.
Someone BAN this fucking clown from the forums (for his own well being!)
Reigniting this thread = uneducated, DERANGED life choice
Steven had no linked videos on his page or his PR history, so there was no proven times to backroll to. I don't think Steven is 'banned' and I don't think there would be a problem with any proven times being on the ranks. I will raise with the council to try to get this to happen.
Any update on this?
This Day in Elite History (January 19)
Steven Zwartjes unties Runway 00 Agent 0:39 (2001).
Why isn't the 0:39 on the ranks then??????
I think Steven's proven times have the right to be ranked. No one seems to mind this annoying inconsistency though i.e. having Steven's proven times unranked but still having his removed WRs featured on This Day in Elite history/WR database etc.
Here is the interview that i held with Steven. There's still 3 questions which i haven't received answers from yet which should be here shortly but here is all of the interview so far. I did my best translating it, but there can be some errors. :smiley:
Here is the original untranslated/unedited interview for anybody who happens to be dutch. :smokin:
https://pastebin.com/pzEgsQyZQuoteNice initiative, this interview. I will answer the questions as well as i possibly can. I hope that i still remember most of it, because there are some events here that are from 20 years ago. :)
Q: What kind of tournaments did you participate in? And do you remember what place you reached? List everything that you remember.
A: I have played quite a bit of tournaments.
-Street Fighter 2 SNES 1992, NL Championships: Became national champion.
-Dutch Nintendo Championships 1993: got knocked out in the last 16.
-NL Nintendo Championships 1994: got knocked out in the last 32.
Patrick Wessels reached first there.
-NL Nintendo Championships 1995: got knocked out in the last 16.
-NL Nintendo Championships 1996: got knocked out in the last 16.
Every year i saw the name Wessels above me on the rankings.
-Mario Kart 64 NL Championships 1997: got knocked out in the last 8 in VS mode.
First meeting with Patrick Wessels.
As you can see from the above, pretty much all of it just came up short from reaching the top. After meeting Wessels and we became friends from that day on everything changed. From that moment on there were a lot of games that we "beuked"(pounded out is the closest translation i can think of lol) as we liked to call it.
Together we analyzed every game that we played and found the depth of every game. From the moment that our friendship began and we combined our gaming skills and knowledge, we seemed unbeatable at every Nintendo Tournament in which we participated. I think that i learned real gaming thanks to Patrick.
-NL Nintendo Championships 1998 Waddinxveen: Became 1st, Patrick 2nd.
-NL Mario Kart Championships 1999: Became 1st, Patrick 2nd.
-NL Nintendo Championships Star Wars Racer 1999: Became 2nd, Patrick 1st.
-NL Nintendo Championships 2000: Became 3rd, Patrick 1st.
-NL Wave Race Championships 2001: Became 2nd, Piet den Dulk 1st. Southern Island 1'31"1 PAL in the preliminaries.
-1080 Snowboarding Championships 2001: Became 1st. I set the then current WR on Mountain Village time trial in the final round.
-NLG Norway '07 meeting with topgamers, lots of different games. 3 golden medals and 1 bronze.
Thanks for the nice questions, Stefan. I hope to bring a nice video online soon.
EDIT: Here is the rest of the remaining questions. ;)
Also the last original untranslated/unedited questions and answers again. https://pastebin.com/SHs2tTxa