The Elite Forum
Nonsense Time => FFA => Topic started by: GoldenEgg on May 04, 2019, 06:54:40 am
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First time poster here. Let me introduce myself.
I remember the hype, when GoldenEye was released. Until then, people where mostly disappointed with the N64 and moved back to their Playstations and/or PCs. The N64 didn't really have much to offer, after the initial releases of Mario 64 and Mario Kart 64.
GoldenEye was praised by the media, as the best ego shooter ever. And surprise: It wasn't on PC, but on a kids console.
In retrospective, I have to say, it's true. GoldenEye definitely was the best ego shooter at that time. Half Life came 15 months later. Unreal came 9 months later. Quake II came 4 months later.
There was only Quake, which came out 14 months earlier. Quake was slightly superior in terms of graphics imho. But honestly, who had a machine that could run Quake on max back then? I knew only one person. That fancy kid from my class, with rich parents who got him a VooDoo GPU, which did cost about as much, as the N64.
Quake II did beat the shit out of Goldeneye on the technical aspects. But the thing with games from id is, they kinda lack story. You don't buy id games for their story. You buy them because of the engine and the multiplayer.
If you want story, you have to wait for 3rd party games who utilize the id engine, like Half Life did with the Quake II engine. And Half Life did beat the shit out of Goldeneye in any aspects.
But there is no shame in that. GoldenEye had impressive graphics for that time. Plus it had a good singleplayer AND a good multiplayer mode. Many shooters still fail on that until this day.
Anyway, I pretty much did read all the reviews about GoldenEye and decided, that I must buy it. But that wasn't so easy. GoldenEye was never officially released in Germany. The censorship on violence is extremely harsh here. Even if the game is rated for adults, it can still be put on the so called Index. If a game is on the Index, it may not be advertised in any way. Shops can keep copies under the counter, but not on the shelves. Even a mention in video games magazines can be critical.
Many games have been mutilated for the german market. C&C got robots who "bleed" oil for example. Other games had blood removed completely. But instead of getting mutilated, GoldenEye just wasn't officially released here.
But that didn't stop stores from selling imports. My uncle accompanied me to a big city nearby. There was a small shop, which did sell GoldenEye. They didn't really have shelves. Just a small room with counters. A few copies of each game where under the counter. Others probably where in the backroom.
I asked, if they still have GoldenEye on stock. The salesclerk did look to my uncle, who just nodded. There I was. 12year old me, holding my copy of GoldenEye.
A few weeks later, big stores started to sell imports of GoldenEye too. And pretty much anyone with a N64 also got GoldenEye, although it never was released in Germany. But that got the attention of the BPjM (Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons) and GoldenEye was moved to the Index anyway.
Magazines stopped mentioning GoldenEye. But that didn't stop the small game stores, who usually advertise on these magazines. They just named it "GoldenEgg 64". And everyone knew, what it was. *lol* So my nickname kinda is a homage to german censorship customs.
I didn't have access to the internet until 2000. By then, I already had lost interest in GoldenEye and moved on the Counterstrike for a short period, before I played Diablo II exclusively.
A few years later, when Youtube came up, I stumpled upon some speedruns and The Elite. I've been watching a lot of Youtube videos about gaming history lately. So I stumbled upon videos from Karl Jobst and Ryan White. So I learned about players like Wouter Jansen, Rayan I. and of course, the famous John Kaleta, who wasn't that good himself, but introduced new strategies to the community.
I am extremely surprised, that none of The Elite realized the effect of Lookdown for about 5 years.
I noticed it pretty early around 1998. I was curious, if the timer would continue during FPS drops. So I did some testing. I tried to produce as much FPS drops, as I could, by producing as many explosions as I could while directly facing them. Meanwhile, I was using a stopwatch. In theory, the ingame timer and the stopwatch would differ by multiple seconds, if the ingame timer would be slown down by FPS drops. But that wasn't the case.
So it was clear to me, that Lookdown can be used to squeeze out extra seconds here and there. I started to use it in 1998. Probably not to the extend, you guys are using it today, because it was kinda frustrating.
I did asume, that there are douzens, if not hundred freaks already, who are using Lookdown and are achieving far better times. So I didn't botter with GoldenEye speedrunning in 2000.
I'm also surprised, that The Dot would remain a secret until 2002.
In late 1998, I did play Half Life. When I went back to GoldenEye in early 1999, I was angry about the missing crosshair during movement. If I could just have crosshair like in Half Life...
So the idea was simple: Just draw one, with a removable marker. And it worked very well. For example on that goddamn lock on Dam. It was so simple. Even simpler than Lookdown. Can't believe this remained hidden for so long.
I did also experiment with some other speedrun techniques in the 90s. For example I have fair amount of experience with Grenades in Cradle.
I once had a run, where Trev was killed by a grenade. I realized what happened immediatelly by the FPS drop, but was too nervous. So I jumped to death. This might have been an untied WR back then. Not sure about the seconds. Something in the 30s. Might have been on pair with Wouters 0:38, but a bit earlier. Also not sure about difficulty.
I wanted to impress the boys during our next deathmatch session. So I tried to reproduce it, by restarting over and over, until one of the guards would drop a grenade. But after a few failed throws, I gave up.
I also had one run, where the Aztec Glassdoor was opened by a guard. I didn't understand how it happened. I only would reproduce it sometimes on accident. Thanks to you guys, I now know, what I did back then!
What I didn't knew back then, was 1.2 Control Style. Knewing this in 1998, would have been very beneficial too.
Even though I'm handicapped through my PAL console, I had the chance to achieve some untied world records. If Wouter and Rayan could do it with PAL, so could I. But I didn't realize my knowledge was years ahead. I did assume everyone knows it and my times will probably be shitty anyway.
Getting back into GoldenEye speedrunning isn't very appealing to me.
To get into GoldenEye speedrunning you need:
- NTSC N64 (US or JAP)
- Adapter to play the other
- US GoldenEye
- JAP GoldenEye
- PAL N64
- PAL GoldenEye
On the one side, you complain about the lack of new blood in The Elite. On the other side, you raise the financial bar extremely high.
Seriously, what can I do with my PAL system? Cut faster through the floor on Train. Master the part of the game, I hate most, goosh...
PAL also seems better for Aztec. Not sure why. Also not sure, why Karl Jobst prefers PAL Jungle over NTSC. But David Clemens has achieved the same times with NTSC.
For Americans, this isn't much an issue. Just don't care about 2 levels and that's it. The Elite Rankings are heavily descriminating Europeans. A combined ranking for NTSC, NTSC-J and PAL makes sense. But why are there no subsections?
This would also open the opportunity for people without PAL system to compete on Train and Aztec.
And there are also slight differences between NTSC and NTSC-J. The higher guard accuracy can be a curse (you die a lot) or a blessing (lots of speed boosts), depending on the level. And there are are also the additional armors in the Japanese version. So tying a WR with another NTSC version, can be seen as a better result.
If there would be subsections, I definitely would get a GoldenEye module ASAP (because mine got stolen long ago) and try some basics, before moving to Train.
In the end, I would have to get a NTSC console for sure. But you guys are basicaly telling me, to get a NTSC console NOW or don't bother at all, which is not very encouraging.
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This post is so long I cant decide if it's legit or a massive shitpost. Did you just watch a bunch of karl jobst videos and decide okay time to post on the forums?
"On the one side, you complain about the lack of new blood in The Elite."
Literally no one says this. We have a summer league where newbies are essentially gold for their untapped times pages and points to gain.
Anyways, welcome to the elite! The discord is more active than the forums these days, but either way hope to see some times from you soon!
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No one in history has ever said "Get NTSC or don't bother". Have you never seen Henrik's page? He has accomplished a LOT with PAL-only play.
It becomes a handicap at top-level play, mostly. As a beginner there is much to learn and this should be the least of your worries. :grin:
There is no financial burden, and let me explain:
If you decide to invest any significant amount of time into a hobby; be it sports, music, shooting, etc., there will be initial financial investments you're going to have to make regardless of what you do. This isn't simply playing a video game casually for only the fun of it. It's a competitive community and a competitive environment. You wouldn't complain if you wanted to enter a tennis tournament and were told you needed shoes and a racket to enter.
Same thing here. There are minimum requirements you have to meet in order to compete. If you don't meet the requirements, you just don't compete. It's simple.
We have standards of play to make an even playing field for every player who competes, and because standards of proof are ever-improving as they become challenged in many different scenarios.
TL;DR if you want to compete, buy the stuff. If you're investing time, that's more valuable than money. Make it worth it.
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PAL isn't that big of a deal for a beginner
It's only when you start getting decent/good that it matters
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newbies are essentially gold for their untapped times pages and points to gain
>> https://rankings.the-elite.net/~Whiteted/goldeneye <<
:)
Even though I'm handicapped through my PAL console
And don't fear potential drafters, I'm buying a NTSC console.
But on topic I've only really felt the hit from PAL on caverns agent and it's still only like 1 second, and there's more than 1 second to cut in my time.
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Yeah, you're making PAL out to be way worse than it actually is. It's definitely possible to get into top 10 or higher PAL-only. Alot of levels don't have any proven difference between the systems (but PAL records might still be worse simply because it's underplayed).
I am extremely surprised, that none of The Elite realized the effect of Lookdown for about 5 years.
I noticed it pretty early around 1998. I was curious, if the timer would continue during FPS drops. So I did some testing. I tried to produce as much FPS drops, as I could, by producing as many explosions as I could while directly facing them. Meanwhile, I was using a stopwatch. In theory, the ingame timer and the stopwatch would differ by multiple seconds, if the ingame timer would be slown down by FPS drops. But that wasn't the case.
So it was clear to me, that Lookdown can be used to squeeze out extra seconds here and there. I started to use it in 1998. Probably not to the extend, you guys are using it today, because it was kinda frustrating.
I did asume, that there are douzens, if not hundred freaks already, who are using Lookdown and are achieving far better times. So I didn't botter with GoldenEye speedrunning in 2000.
Comparing the in-game timer with a stopwatch is essentially useless, since results will vary and can be both faster and slower. The reason lookdown works has to do with how Bond's movement is affected by lag (https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=18518.msg450020#msg450020).
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The dot in 1999 is legit I think, lookdown I'll pay that, grenades on cradle, sure - but I have a hard time believing you opened the aztec glass door using guard lures in 1998 tbh.
Regardless I enjoyed reading about trying to get a copy of goldeneye in Germany upon release and was cool to hear some feedback on how goldeneye compared to its immediate competitors, I never played any of them and even perfect dark in 2000 shows a massive development in gameplay mechanics and such
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No one is complaining about the lack of blood in the elite. 3 newbies just achieved runway agent 22 the past couple days. And I agree with Alec, playing this game seriously requires time. And time is money as they say. So who's to say our "financial" requirements are too high, you are choosing to pick up a hobby that you need to put time into to get better at (like many other things) but that same time could be spent becoming a millionaire etc. Do what you love imo but don't complain about needing to spend $50-200 depending on what you already are equipped with. Sounds like many hobbies I could pick up. Sorry but if this makes you feel descriminated on, you haven't felt real descrimination.
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He could just invest the $200 into mutual funds with an average annual return of 8%, never touch it, and have $4345 in 40 years.
Gotta weigh those possibilities! :nesquik:
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what's ur opinion on a hard c right
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If you decide to invest any significant amount of time into a hobby; be it sports, music, shooting, etc., there will be initial financial investments you're going to have to make regardless of what you do. This isn't simply playing a video game casually for only the fun of it. It's a competitive community and a competitive environment. You wouldn't complain if you wanted to enter a tennis tournament and were told you needed shoes and a racket to enter.
I already have shoes and a racket.
You're telling me, they're the wrong ones. So I have to get another racket and fitting shoes. Or compete against people with a bigger racket, that gives them huge advantage. I don't really have an option to compete against people with the same pair of shoes and rackets.
Too see, which Runway 0:22s have been done with PAL, I have to open all 133 of them in separate tabs. Very convenient.
There are no separate rankings. No filter function. Not even flags, indicating which version was used. Nope. I have to open all of them, to get this information.
For Americans, this isn't much of an issue, since your version is favored in most categories. If it would be the other way, I'm sure there would be a lot of complaints from US players, who would be calling the PAL version a "cheat".
I totally agree, that the combined rankings should be the default category. The master league. But there should be an option, to see NTSC-U/NTSC-J/PAL results only.
It becomes a handicap at top-level play, mostly. As a beginner there is much to learn and this should be the least of your worries. :grin:
I wouldn't describe myself as a beginner.
I was already using advanced speedrunning techniques, when the game was still pretty fresh. Nobody here had a Game Shark or any device like that, so people often came to me, to unlock multiplayer cheats on their module. Sometimes I did push it even further, obtaining a time they would never be able to beat themself. Sometimes my best time was on somebody elses module. And so word spread.
"Wow, how did you achieve that time?"
"I didn't. GoldenEgg did."
One time, a guy I didn't knew, asked me at school. And I was like: "Who the hell are you and who the hell did tell you about me?" I should have taken money for this. 5 bucks per cheat. *lol*
I did use Lookdown, "before it was cool". Learning now, that I can use a 40° angle on many occassions, is a relief. Learning the paths, while looking straight down, was very frustrating back then. I did work harder on that, than I actually had to.
I'm also used to shoot guards while running, because of the Dot. I'm used to farming grenades...
Playing a game is like riding a bike. It might be a bit wonky at first, if you didn't ride it for a long time. But after a few hours, you will get close to your old skillcap.
What I'm not used too, is other control styles than 1.1.
Mastering 2.X would actually be one big thing, I have to learn from the ground. I wouldn't bother with 1.2, if 2.X is the master league. As you said before, this is no casual bullshit. This is serious business. :P
Have you never seen Henrik's page? He has accomplished a LOT with PAL-only play.
PAL-only isn't true. His Caverns Agent TWR was done with NTSC.
But he managed to get Runway Agent 0:22 with PAL. Rayan has done it years before. And another player named Gregor Degenhart managed to do it aswell.
Being the 4th one to achieve it on PAL sounds way more interesting, than being the 131st in NTSC. Although it's harder, though I have to use 2.X control style. This makes it actually more attractive to me.
Would it be possible, to achieve TWRs on Runway SA and 00, just using the PAL version?
Henrik also got a TWR on Surface 1. And he's the only one. Being 2nd sounds way better than being #47.
Or would it be easier to go for 1:01 with NTSC?
I've noticed a strange thing:
https://rankings.the-elite.net/~Homieonice/time/143540
https://rankings.the-elite.net/~dsx/time/127437
https://rankings.the-elite.net/~Wodahs-Reklaw/time/131903
https://rankings.the-elite.net/~dsx/time/131295
https://rankings.the-elite.net/~Homieonice/time/131319
https://rankings.the-elite.net/~Wodahs-Reklaw/time/133437
https://rankings.the-elite.net/~Perfect+Ace/time/110472
https://rankings.the-elite.net/~Eise+S./time/110476
https://rankings.the-elite.net/~Dark+Inkosi/time/98679
6 players, switching from PAL to NTSC-J. Is NTSC-J better than PAL for Aztec?
This leaves:
- Train (All difficulties)
- Jungle (All difficulties)
- Caverns (Secret Agent only)
These seem to be PAL dominated. As I told before, I hate Train. Becoming the best laserwatch gunman this planet has ever seen, is definitely an interesting challenge.
But I don't feel that's anything I should do for the start. Jungle and Caverns seems more suitable.
Any other world records, that can be tied or beaten with my PAL hardware?
He could just invest the $200 into mutual funds with an average annual return of 8%, never touch it, and have $4345 in 40 years.
Gotta weigh those possibilities! :nesquik:
200 bucks is a lot of money for someone on disability benefits. So please stop making fun of it.
This is basically my annual gaming&hardware budget. I'd be willing to pay that. Just not for getting started.
The dot in 1999 is legit I think, lookdown I'll pay that, grenades on cradle, sure - but I have a hard time believing you opened the aztec glass door using guard lures in 1998 tbh.
Not on purpose. By accident. Like 3 times or so.
I didn't understand, how it happened.
Regardless I enjoyed reading about trying to get a copy of goldeneye in Germany upon release and was cool to hear some feedback on how goldeneye compared to its immediate competitors, I never played any of them and even perfect dark in 2000 shows a massive development in gameplay mechanics and such
I did only play PD once in multiplayer.
Perfect Dark might be a good game, but it's not as impressive as GoldenEye. Compare Perfect Dark with Quake III, which came out half a year earlier. But the machine you did need to run Quake III on max... Ouch... I got one in 2000. Today I regret having spend 3000€ at once on hardware. The boys were like: "WOAH! You're insane." And yeah, they were right.
The thing with GoldenEye is, that it didn't look that bad technically. Compared to Quake 1, which did need much more costly hardware. And storywise GoldenEye was the best ego shooter ever released back then.
Perfect Dark might be a good game. But GoldenEye is an important milestone in many aspects.
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Too see, which Runway 0:22s have been done with PAL, I have to open all 133 of them in separate tabs. Very convenient.
There are no separate rankings. No filter function. Not even flags, indicating which version was used. Nope. I have to open all of them, to get this information.
https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/systems
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If you haven't understood anything from what I've already conveyed to you, then I'm afraid contributing to this thread further for me will provide you with nothing. In case this is an elaborate shitpost, I've tossed this into FFA. The OP refuses to see reason in any of the replies. This leads me to believe it's a troll thread.
Cheers
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Yes it would be possible to achieve the full runway wr sweep on pal! I'm glad that extra challenge is so intriguing to you, I recommend you get started asap! Why waste your time complaining about random stuff when you have a couple version untieds to get and be the first to sweep runway with 22/22/28 on pal! Good luck and goshspeed!
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what's ur opinion on a hard c right
What the fuck is that?
Yes it would be possible to achieve the full runway wr sweep on pal! I'm glad that extra challenge is so intriguing to you, I recommend you get started asap! Why waste your time complaining about random stuff when you have a couple version untieds to get and be the first to sweep runway with 22/22/28 on pal! Good luck and goshspeed!
THX! This comment is really helpful.
Challenge accepted! Well, maybe not 0:28 on 00 Agent. But 0:22 on both Agent and Secret Agent sounds interesting. Especially Secret Agent, which would be a Tied World Record and Version Untied World Record at once.
Please more of this. Is there any literature on what could still be achieved using PAL?
https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/systems
Oops, didn't see that.
Is there also an easy way, to see the 2nd, 3rd, etc result for PAL (in case of Untied WRs)?
Yeah, you're making PAL out to be way worse than it actually is. It's definitely possible to get into top 10 or higher PAL-only. Alot of levels don't have any proven difference between the systems (but PAL records might still be worse simply because it's underplayed).
After some further investigation, I think you might be right about this.
Dam 0:53, Bunker1 0:17 and Frigate 0:23 are all possible on PAL. 1 second less would be possible with NTSC. But being the first to tie Karl Jobst probably is a unrealistic goal for someone who hasn't played GoldenEye in more than a decade.
Archives on SA has been done twice in 0:53 on NTSC-U and once on PAL. But again, competing against Karl Jobst is probably too unrealistic.
Then there are Caverns and Aztec on SA, which appear to be best on PAL. The 00 Agent variant appears to be easier on NTSC-J.
Can someone explain to me, why SA is easier on PAL and 00 is easier on NTSC-J?
Then there would be Train and Jungle. Mastering the part of the game, which I hate the most (cutting through the floor by using the laserwatch) is a bit frightening, but might be an interesting challenge later.
But first I would try Jungle and pray to RNGsus (the god of RNG). I had runs, where Natalya was doing really stupid things.
If I have reached this point, i'd probably more willing to invest into NTSC.
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100% a troll thread :v
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Well recently I discovered that pal is borderline advantaged on depot 00, at the very least it has its advantages and isn't highly disadvantaged as we all assumed. So I would give that a try.
Caverns SA you can survive in a speedrun with wr strats without body armor no problem. But caverns 00 is essential that you use the Japanese version because there's a body armor there. I hope that clears up your questions. You may want to reply saying that's unfair, but Ace tied the NTSC world record of 1:35 on PAL when he was a kid. Why not go above and beyond and tie the 1:30 set by Wodahs with PAL?
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If you haven't understood anything from what I've already conveyed to you, then I'm afraid contributing to this thread further for me will provide you with nothing. In case this is an elaborate shitpost, I've tossed this into FFA. The OP refuses to see reason in any of the replies. This leads me to believe it's a troll thread.
If I would be troll, wouldn't I claim, that I achieved a 0:38 or something like that on Cradle, instead of admiting that I failed the jump, which angers me until today?
Blessed by RNGsus, I had an extremely good shot on an Untied World Record, which would had stood for a while (but would be outdated today).
I'm pretty sure I had runway 0:25. I did use Lookdown and grenade boosts. Kinda bad today, but back then, this was a TWR. If I had known about 1.2 or 2.2, it would have been untied.
So please stop treating me like a goddamn noob. The version will matter faster than you think. I'm not starting at 0.
I know what grind means.
On my WoW account (which is inactive for quite a long time now), I got a Wintersaber AND Black Qiraji Battle Tank. Two of the most insane grinds ever. I also did the grind for the "The Insane" title, before the title itself got even introduced. Just out of pure boredom. Or google for the Jazzrik grind. There is a video, that explains it. It didn't require any skill. Just patience and 100 days of your lifetime. :rollin:
Meanwhile I was one of the richest played worldwide. Not realizing I had a good shot a world first goldcap, because I was underestimating my abilities. I've I wouldn't have shifted my focus from moneymaking to stupid grinds, I would have been the first.
During that time, I was also achieving Top100 kills with my guild. I know what dedication means. You don't have to lecture me. I spent rougly 100 hours a week for a year. Anyone of you ever played that much GoldenEye in a year?
My reflexes have become worse, for sure. And I lack the energy, which I had at the age of 20.
But I have another helpful ability, that has even increased with age:
People get frustrated by repetitiveness. I'm not completely immune, but due to ASD I have an extremely high resistance to this.
Never tell an autie "This is too hard.", because he will try until he succeeds, if it's doable in theory.
Little 12year old autistic me (not diagnosed back then) actually was years ahead of all of you in terms of knowledge. Lookdown, dot, grenade boosts, guards openings doors, grenade trev kills...
The first GoldenEye speedruns I've seen a few years ago, did already use Lookdown. I didn't wonder or need an explanation, because I knew why it's used. By that point, other speedrunners were already better than I ever was, because of all the new strategies.
But I didn't know, that Lookdown was unknown until 2002. I learned this a few days ago. And I was really surprised. If I had known this earlier, I would have revealed it in 2000. Because withholding knowledge is disgusting.
Back in my WoW days, we weren't the kind of guys, who kept our tactics to ourself. If someone did beat our time, using our strategy, this wasn't a sign to us, that we should keep or secrets to ourself. Instead it was a sign, that we must work on our execution. Being without any competition is so fucking boring. So we did like to give the competition a push.
I'm currently not aware of any trick that isn't public knowledge until now. But I have a talent for finding these things. I might have discovered way more, if I hadn't lost interest in GoldenEye in 2000. Probably even things, that are unknown or still mysterious until today.
Be careful, who you call a troll, young man!
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Yikes.
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I don't believe you're older than 25 max, post selfie with name and date as proof plz :nesquik:
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Well recently I discovered that pal is borderline advantaged on depot 00, at the very least it has its advantages and isn't highly disadvantaged as we all assumed. So I would give that a try.
The best PAL result is 2 seconds behind NTSC-U and 3 seconds behind NTSC-J.
Do you really think it can be improved that much?
But besides that, I'm was kinda shitty on 00 Agent speedruns. And I don't have much experience on Depot.
Would prefer to start on some levels, where I have experience. Dam, Runway, Frigate, Surface 2, Streets, Cradle, Aztec. Those are the ones, I remember speedrunning back in 98/99. On Agent on Secret Agent mostly.
Caverns SA you can survive in a speedrun with wr strats without body armor no problem. But caverns 00 is essential that you use the Japanese version because there's a body armor there. I hope that clears up your questions.
Yeah, I've heard about that in vid.
But what about Aztec? Why is Aztec 00 easier in NTSC-J? Same reason, as in Caverns?
You may want to reply saying that's unfair, but Ace tied the NTSC world record of 1:35 on PAL when he was a kid. Why not go above and beyond and tie the 1:30 set by Wodahs with PAL?
So I have to pray to RNGsus to be a hit at the perfect time. And then never again. Sounds like fun.
RNGsus loves me. Well, at least sometimes...
But even if I don't manage to tie Wodahs 1:30 which was done with NTSC-J, it would be at least something to beat Rayans old PAL record. Untied Version World Record for 9 years!
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If I would be troll, wouldn't I claim, that I achieved a 0:38 or something like that on Cradle, instead of admiting that I failed the jump, which angers me until today?
Blessed by RNGsus, I had an extremely good shot on an Untied World Record, which would had stood for a while (but would be outdated today).
I'm pretty sure I had runway 0:25. I did use Lookdown and grenade boosts. Kinda bad today, but back then, this was a TWR. If I had known about 1.2 or 2.2, it would have been untied.
So please stop treating me like a goddamn noob. The version will matter faster than you think. I'm not starting at 0.
I know what grind means.
On my WoW account (which is inactive for quite a long time now), I got a Wintersaber AND Black Qiraji Battle Tank. Two of the most insane grinds ever. I also did the grind for the "The Insane" title, before the title itself got even introduced. Just out of pure boredom. Or google for the Jazzrik grind. There is a video, that explains it. It didn't require any skill. Just patience and 100 days of your lifetime. :rollin:
Meanwhile I was one of the richest played worldwide. Not realizing I had a good shot a world first goldcap, because I was underestimating my abilities. I've I wouldn't have shifted my focus from moneymaking to stupid grinds, I would have been the first.
During that time, I was also achieving Top100 kills with my guild. I know what dedication means. You don't have to lecture me. I spent rougly 100 hours a week for a year. Anyone of you ever played that much GoldenEye in a year?
My reflexes have become worse, for sure. And I lack the energy, which I had at the age of 20.
But I have another helpful ability, that has even increased with age:
People get frustrated by repetitiveness. I'm not completely immune, but due to ASD I have an extremely high resistance to this.
Never tell an autie "This is too hard.", because he will try until he succeeds, if it's doable in theory.
Little 12year old autistic me (not diagnosed back then) actually was years ahead of all of you in terms of knowledge. Lookdown, dot, grenade boosts, guards openings doors, grenade trev kills...
The first GoldenEye speedruns I've seen a few years ago, did already use Lookdown. I didn't wonder or need an explanation, because I knew why it's used. By that point, other speedrunners were already better than I ever was, because of all the new strategies.
But I didn't know, that Lookdown was unknown until 2002. I learned this a few days ago. And I was really surprised. If I had known this earlier, I would have revealed it in 2000. Because withholding knowledge is disgusting.
Back in my WoW days, we weren't the kind of guys, who kept our tactics to ourself. If someone did beat our time, using our strategy, this wasn't a sign to us, that we should keep or secrets to ourself. Instead it was a sign, that we must work on our execution. Being without any competition is so fucking boring. So we did like to give the competition a push.
I'm currently not aware of any trick that isn't public knowledge until now. But I have a talent for finding these things. I might have discovered way more, if I hadn't lost interest in GoldenEye in 2000. Probably even things, that are unknown or still mysterious until today.
Be careful, who you call a troll, young man!
This sounds like an unironic rendition of the Navy Seal copypasta, but if the subject was a gamer instead
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I'll be getting at least 0:47 on depot 00 soon, using pal. bopitorbebopped
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Kind of hoped this thread would improve between my first post and this post. It did not. Should have titled it "Young man relives old man glory days through sheer brain power". Glad it's in ffa now
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Let's just make sure we all remember that it's definitely okay to disagree with another user, or say you don't believe them, but it's important to do so respectfully. The way we treat all users -- new or otherwise -- reflects upon both ourselves and the community as a whole.
I think there are plenty of positive takeaways from this thread, no need to let negativity win the day:
- It would be awesome if the rankings were enhanced to show a more complete picture of the situation for each region
- Some of the specific information about the PAL levels has never been shared/compiled on these forums before -- it would be a shame if it was lost forever in FFA instead of archived safely in the GE category
- Big new timesaving discoveries usually only come when people put dedicated effort into different areas of the games. When users show up who claim they have a special ability to focus on and work toward a single goal for long periods of time, we'll be better off in the long run if we encourage them to meet those goals and/or break the game. The biggest advantage active players have over inactive players is they can use newly found information to score more points. Anyone still posting should be encouraging all potential discoveries, you lose nothing if something great is found.
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Flechr Official Statement:
lol
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But what about Aztec? Why is Aztec 00 easier in NTSC-J? Same reason, as in Caverns?
On NTSC-J, you have auto aim as default on the 00 Agent-difficulty. This is a pretty big advantage on many levels and Aztec is definitely one of them (it's significantly harder to take out guards on PAL 00A for example).
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Insanely good thread, I love it so I just had to get involved.
The current #1 on Jungle leaderboards is David Clemens, he has achieved all 3 WRs, including an untied WR. He did this with NTSC on a traditionally labelled "PAL level".
Ace posted his first NTSC PB in March of 2008. Upon posting this, he currently held over 20 WRs and had achieved well over 50 WRs in his career at that point.
It's time to buck the system and the group collective. Be an outlaw! Fight the stodgy old stereotypes of version advantages. Most of them are overstated and complete bullshit. You don't need 45 consoles and 700 versions and adaptors to run this game. You need extreme patience, masochistic tendencies, good posture, 4500 Gamer IQ and a hell of a lot of time to kill. Do that, and you'll earn your way to the next level.
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lol
10char
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I admit failure on 2 parts.
1. I was complaining about something, which I want, although it is already there. I just didn't found it. All this discussion about tennis was a waste. It would have been enough to post this link:
https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/systems
Like the user mw did.
But my critique is still valid to some point.
So there is one player who achieved Surface1 1:02 on PAL. Henrik Norgren. But what if I want to know, how many people achieved 1:03, using PAL?
All I can do, is open this link:
https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/stage/surface1
And then open the 60 results for 1:03 in separate tabs.
There need to be subsections in the systems tab. At the moment, the system tab just redirects to the combined rankings.
2. I have probably judged too hard on PAL at first. While the reality is more, that most europeans just didn't bother anymore to improve their PAL results, once they got their NTSC. And some americans apparently never bothered to get a PAL at all. Like BB and DC.
PAL is underplayed, which opens up more potential world records, than I originally thought.
Let's just make sure we all remember that it's definitely okay to disagree with another user, or say you don't believe them, but it's important to do so respectfully.
My expectactions towards millenials aka generation 4chan aka generation smartphone are extremely low.
Niveau in discussion boards has rapidly declined since about 2005. Miss the days, when these people had only restricted access to the internet, because mom would just pull the plug. :smirk:
- It would be awesome if the rankings were enhanced to show a more complete picture of the situation for each region
Oh yeah, I would be really cool, if not everyone would only play the most advantageous version for each map. I mean, fuck that body armor and do it with NTSC-U or PAL. Real men don't need armor... Are you men or mice?
(Sarcasm. But just a little bit. There is more seriousness.)
Any discussion, if the Japanese version is a "cheat", because of the body armor, is total nonsense. Each of the 3 versions is 100% legit. There aren't just 60 levels. There are 180 levels.
If you really want to master a single stage, you need to beat 9 records and own all the 3 modules.
Some of the specific information about the PAL levels has never been shared/compiled on these forums before -- it would be a shame if it was lost forever in FFA instead of archived safely in the GE category
Maybe it's time for a new NTSC/PAL/NTSC-J master thread?
I would definitely like to read more about PAL, since I'm a poor guy and won't be able to play NTSC for some while.
Big new timesaving discoveries usually only come when people put dedicated effort into different areas of the games.
Yeah. Additional eyes increase the chance of new things to be found. Every pair of eyes sees the world a bit different. Of course, often different pairs of eyes will notice the same detail.
When Kaleta made the dot public, a lot of players (including myself) already indepedently had discovered it themself. Lookdown wasn't so obvious as it appears. But I highly doubt, that Kaleta and I have been the only ones to notice it. Thoughts aren't as unique, as many people think. There's probably a bunch more, who never even have heard about The Elite and knew about lookdown.
If Kaleta hadn't come around in 2002, somebody else would have the years after. But you would have spend even more years on pointless runs, because you didn't use lookdown.
When users show up who claim they have a special ability to focus on and work toward a single goal for long periods of time, we'll be better off in the long run if we encourage them to meet those goals and/or break the game.
I was already thinking extremely analytic as a kid. One of the gifts, which ASD provides (in addition to a lot of handicaps). When I did encounter something strange, I would spend hours, trying to replicate it. Until I can benefit from it.
Other kids usually didn't like to play against me, because they got frustrated. Also I didn't understand the concept of letting others win sometimes, so they don't lose motivation. I would just smash them over and over again, until they completely lost interest, lol.
I've often heard stuff like: "Can't you just play normal?" or "You're taking this too serious."
I'm not claiming to be some kind of god who knows and knew everything. I'm definitely not.
I'm not even claiming to have been in a godlike speedrunner in 1998. It's just my strategies, which were years ahead. But I never mastered the execution on many of them, because I stopped speedrunning GE very early.
I didn't know, you can improve movement speed by switching button configuration. 1.1 felt fine, so I never bothered trying another. And I definitely would NEVER EVER have found this out myself. If I would be a troll, wouldn't I say something like "But I would have figured that out myself, if I just had continued playing GE after 2000!"?
I knew, guards can open doors for you, when you attract their attention by firing. But my pattern was far from perfection. I was total garbage at Silo. Watching modern speedruns will definitely be a big help for improving on Silo.
I also never figured out, how the glass door in Aztec works. Had it happen on accident early, during a casual playthrough. So I knew it existed in 1998. But I didn't have much effort on replicating it, because I didn't fully understand it. Too inconsistent.
I didn't knew about the turret strategy. If I had, I wouldn't have bothered with grenades.
I had this one accidental Trev grenade kill. So I knew it existed, but never managed to replicate it. Not even once. So I switched to farming grenades, which was more consistent. But I never mastered the execution of the throw.
Another thing, I definitely didn't knew, was, that you can speed things with Natalya up, by shooting her. If I had known, that lazy b**** would have already had gotten thousands of bullets.
I like to experiment, if I discover something strange. I'm more likely to become highly specialized, than becoming an alround star like Karl Jobst. Experience has shown, I shouldn't try, to be good at everything. I tried in the past, and I failed horribly.
The visual perception of people with ASD is very different from the majority of the population. We see things and we know the answer. We don't have to think about it. Same like you can look at a persons face and know how they feel. It's an instict.
We don't have this instict. We can overcome this flaw with brainpower. I'm quite bad at this, because I don't really care. Others bother more, but they will never be really good at interpreting facial expressions. Physical limitations.
But it works the same the other way. A neurotypical person will never reach the levels of pattern recognition as an autistic person. You don't have to be intimidated by this. It's not a superpower. It's just an instict, we're born with. It doesn't require brainpower. But brainpower comes in handy, when it's about to interpret the patterns. Not all of us can do this.
If anyone of you knows aspects of GE, that could need the attention of a crazy rainman, let me know!
Anyone still posting should be encouraging all potential discoveries, you lose nothing if something great is found.
Oh, there is is actually a lot to lose for some people...
Most people in the competitive gaming scene, can be devided into 2 categories:
Group one is searching for perfection.
They want to see the physical limits of the game and expand them, if possible. For them, a new discovery is exciting. It doesn't matter as much, who does it. Of course, it's nice to be the first. But it matters more, that somebody does it.
If I would find a new skip, I would try to achieve the new UTR, before revealing the technique. But if I had the feeling, I'm too bad to execute this in a reasonable time, I would post it public. So anyone can grab it and not just a choosen few. I wouldn't let people waste years of their life on meaningless runs, because their strategy is outdated. Lifetime is too precious.
Group two is searching for fame.
Don't bother explaining the concept and benefits of friendly competition to them. They can't understand it. You're fighting against "hardware limitations" there. They were born this way. For them, competition means war. And so new reveals are war times. Instead of just bathing in their fame and feeding on it, they have to fight for their survival.
They need the fame to survive. Their self esteem is solely based on it. Withdrawel leads to depression and eventually suicidal thoughts. So they need their dose of fame every now and then. If they discover something, they would keep it for themself, even if it takes them years to claim the UTRs. They don't care about the others, who waste their lifetime. It's war. And in war, everything is allowed.
I don't want to accuse anyone of belonging to that second group. I don't know anyone of you good enough yet, to judge.
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When theflash said to keep it respectful that was to apply to everyone, you don't get an exception just because you 'opened the glass door on accident during casual play in 1998' :smirk:
Really tell me how does one accidentally do any glass set up while playing Aztec casually? Do you think we are that naive?
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Really tell me how does one accidentally do any glass set up while playing Aztec casually? Do you think we are that naive?
Casually probably means something different to you.
Casually for me, means, I wouldn't care about the time. I would aim for perfection in other aspects:
100% hit. 100% headshot. And ideally don't let the guards fire a single shot.
On one playthrough of Aztec, being sneaky didn't work, and did catch the attention of the guards in that room. I ran back, so they would come to me, and I could give them a headshot from close distance. Instead, they would open the door for me.
I already wasted too much time on this particular run, so it was unusable for a new record. I spent a lot of time, trying to replicate it. And I did manage to do so. Again, more an accident, than actually knowing what was going on. But it was just one more time and I was so nervous, that I got killed by the turrets.
Young me wasn't that patient, so I didn't pursue this any further. I remember, that I was really furious, because I did fuck this up, just like the Trev accident.
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"Casual play", meaning you weren't speedrunning the level for a leaderboard.
That's casual play.
There are so many things I want to identify and explain in this thread but by GOLLY the void is huge to delve into.
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Knowing how the glass works, there's about a .000001% chance you had the guards accidentally open the glass. Why should we believe you, when we don't believe Steven zwartes? We are only being fair here
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Insanely good thread, I love it so I just had to get involved.
I'm glad, that at least somebody values my input, despite my somewhat akward appearance.
The current #1 on Jungle leaderboards is David Clemens, he has achieved all 3 WRs, including an untied WR. He did this with NTSC on a traditionally labelled "PAL level".
Just had a look at all the Jungle Records. Autis love statistics.
David is holding 6 WRs on Jungle, to be exact. Untied Agent on both NTSC versions. Untied Secret Agent on both NTSC versions. Tied 00 Agent on NTSC-U. Untied for 00 Agent on NTSC-J.
But he didn't bother to improve his NTSC-U results for more than 10 years. He's holding the (non system specific) WRs using NTSC-J, which is also blessed with AR33 speed. At that time, many players from America and Europe switched to NTSC-J exlusively.
Ace posted his first NTSC PB in March of 2008. Upon posting this, he currently held over 20 WRs and had achieved well over 50 WRs in his career at that point.
Rayan and Wouter have been mentioned in quite a few videos. When they entered the scene, there was much more room for improvement and there were more WRs, that could be claimed. So they could still have a lot of success using PAL. Times have changed.
I'm sad, I didn't enter the scene in the early 2000s. But apparently, there are still a lot of PAL specific WRs, than can be claimed.
It's time to buck the system and the group collective. Be an outlaw! Fight the stodgy old stereotypes of version advantages. Most of them are overstated and complete bullshit.
Yeah, fuck the mainstream.
Don't be a NTSC-J hipster. :P (Just kiddin.)
I'll be getting at least 0:47 on depot 00 soon, using pal. bopitorbebopped
Nice to see someone from over the sea, trying to improve the PAL records.
Most europeans switch to NTSC at some points. So who's gonna improve the PAL records, if not even the europeans do it anymore?
Feel free, to grab as many PAL WRs, as you can. I don't have enough time left in this life, to claim them all. Just leave a few for me. ;)
On NTSC-J, you have auto aim as default on the 00 Agent-difficulty. This is a pretty big advantage on many levels and Aztec is definitely one of them (it's significantly harder to take out guards on PAL 00A for example).
Ah yeah, the auto aim.
What are the other levels, where the improved auto aim from NTSC-J is extremely valuable?
From what I know, NTSC-J is also blessed with AR33 speed, but not as much as PAL.
But NTSC-J has 60hz, just like NTSC-U, while PAL has 50hz. Do the higher hertz from NTSC-J and the higher AR33 speed from PAL level each other out?
Yeah, you need godlike aim for this, for sure.
It would be really interesting, to see a TAS comparision on this. Are there any good TASer here, or has The Elite already scared all of them, with their charme? (There is nothing wrong with TAS, as long as it's labeled as what it is.)
I don't really feel like chasing times, that are not even physically possible. So that's why I'm asking all these questions.
Anyone remember the 9th sword orb and ruby armet from Secret of Mana? Man, I spent an unbelievable amount of my childhood, chasing these two items. Learning years later from the internet, that these items haven't been implemented and devs just been too lazy to remove them from the manual. And of course, at every school there was this one kid, claiming he had found them in the Mana Fortress. Goddamn liars. Thank you for wasting my time, Square (Enix)!
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Knowing how the glass works, there's about a .000001% chance you had the guards accidentally open the glass. Why should we believe you, when we don't believe Steven zwartes? We are only being fair here
Who the hell is Steven Zwartes?
I did explain, how it happened. I wanted to lure the guards closer, so I can finish the level with 100% headshots. Instead, they accidentally opened the door and I realized, I can skip part of the level.
I spend days, trying to replicate it. Not sure how often I managed to do it. I think it was just once, because I got so pissed, after the turred killed me, that I never tried again.
This is a typical flaw, in the way autistic children think. I spent an enternity, trying to open that door. And when I managed, to do it again, I didn't knew what to do. It's the same shit, I pulled on Cradle. Farming grenades, without practicing the throw first and using cheats for training.
When a test was handed out at school, I wouldn't do the tasks first, which offer the most points for the time invested. No, I would always do them in order, no matter what. To an autistic child, this makes absolut sense, even if they continue to fail with this strategy.
I' started to overcome this instinct in high school. But the urge is still strong.
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Who's complaining about the lack of new blood in The Elite?
If you can't afford to purchase all three consoles and games, then you can always use the Ace Trick. The Ace Trick is to start off with one console, preferably the one you already have, and then get REALLY good and start pwning/streaming a lot. People will automatically pay attention and buy the other two consoles for you. You will skyrocket on the relevancy Tier rankings as well. Ace tells a lot of people to follow this strat, and it usually works.
You can propose the site/rankings changes you want in this thread: https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=19252.0
Be warned though. There's already a backlog of requests and getting stuff done (if at all) is estimated to take between 3 to 20 years.
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Ah yeah, the auto aim.
What are the other levels, where the improved auto aim from NTSC-J is extremely valuable?
Many levels. Control (especially the start of the level), Frigate etc, and another thing on NTSC-J is that 00A speedruns are significantly easier to complete since you can pick up body armors you would not be able to pick up on NTSC/PAL as well as improved auto aim on ALL levels.
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Many levels. Control (especially the start of the level), Frigate etc, and another thing on NTSC-J is that 00A speedruns are significantly easier to complete since you can pick up body armors you would not be able to pick up on NTSC/PAL as well as improved auto aim on ALL levels.
Yeah, I know that auto aim is improved on all difficulties on NTSC-J. But this doesn't matter that much on lower difficulties, because you leave most guards alive for boosts.
But NTSC-J also has higher guard accuracy. In theory, this should increase both bad runs (getting pushed into the wrong direction) as well as good runs (getting pushed into the right direction), while decreasing the amount of average runs, where you don't get any boosts.
This doesn't really make the execution easier. It just reduces the amount of luck involved. But that can be nice too.
While studying the System Records, I found some instances, where the NTSC-U times are better than NTSC-J.
Agent
Dam 0:52(-1s)
Statue 2:18(-1s)
Control 3:56(-1s)
Secret Agent
Dam 1:16(-1s)
Bunker 0:20(-1s)
Silo 1:07(-8s)
Surface2 0:47(-4s)
Bunker2 0:44(-1s)
Archives 0:53(-1s)
00 Agent
Dam 1:55(-1s)
Facility 0:52(-1s)
Runway 0:28 (-6s)
Silo 1:21(-2s)
Archives 0:53(-1s)
Train 1:53 (-1s)
First thing I notice: All 3 WRs for Dam are held by NTSC-U. Is there a reason for this? Or just coincidence?
For Silo I assume, the improved guard accuracy on NTSC-J is a disadvance, while Bonds improved aim isn't that much of a help, since the level is extremely linear?
I'm really confused about Train. Shouldn't it be PAL > NTSC-J > NTSC-U in this case? Because of the faster laser watch?
I'm also confused about the high gap on SA Surface (-4s) and 00A Runway (-6s). Just two extremely lucky runs, who have been done on NTSC-U by coincidence?
And then there are the others, where NTSC-U is 1 second ahead of NTSC-J. Also lucky runs and coincidence? Or is there a particular reason, why NTSC-U saves 1 second over NTSC-J on these?
Ace tells a lot of people to follow this strat, and it usually works.
Does Ace always talk about himself in 3rd person?
If you can't afford to purchase all three consoles and games, then you can always use the Ace Trick. The Ace Trick is to start off with one console, preferably the one you already have, and then get REALLY good and start pwning/streaming a lot. People will automatically pay attention and buy the other two consoles for you. You will skyrocket on the relevancy Tier rankings as well.
I won't go into Twitch business. If I'm gonna stream, it'll be private. For The Elite only. No posts, no invite. I'm not really that much attracted to fame and the trolls, that come with it.
There won't be a webcam. And I won't be talking much, since I'm not that talkative when I have to use my vocal chords. Especially not, if I'm focused on something.
But why two other consoles? From what I know, any NTSC can be modified, to play both NTSC-U and NTSC-J. They're technically the same. It's just plastic, which blocks NTSC-J modules to be played on NTSC-U. And vise versa.
So I just need 2 consoles and 3 cartridges. Or did I miss some info on that?
I wouldn't accept it as a gift. What I would accept, is, if someone puts a bounty on PAL WRs. I know, some people do this. Why not offer some spare NTSC consoles + modules?
People who already have submitted NTSC runs could be excluded from the bounty, so the consoles + modules don't get ebayed and stay inside the community. If somebody, who already has a NTSC console, nevertheless is the first to achieve a new WR on PAL, the bounty could be moved to another level.
If some people got spare PAL consoles + modules, the same could be applied for levels which are underplayed on NTSC. This could spark new interest in currently underplayed categories.
It would encourage newcomers to stay with their console and do some of the more difficult or annoying stuff, instead of just going the easy way and switching to the most favored version. Which is NTSC-J in most cases. Filthy PAL peasants. Glorious NTSC-J master race. :(
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(https://i.imgur.com/FM9smU0.png)
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I will offer a $10,000 bounty for the first to tie dam 52 on PAL. (Assuming no new significant strategies arise)
Rules: must have facecam, must have handcam (plus footcam if you use your feet for either controller), must have input display, must stream at 3.5k bitrate, and must have enough THC in your body to fail a drug test.
Shouldn't be too hard to match my stream. Good luck!
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I will offer a $10,000 bounty for the first to tie dam 52 on PAL. (Assuming no new significant strategies arise)
I don't think you have $10k.
must have facecam, must have handcam (plus footcam if you use your feet for either controller)
Facecam is irrelevant. There are still people out there, who are not part of generation Facebook and therefore value their privacy.
Handcam+footcam makes sense, if you want to raise the standard for proofs.
must have enough THC in your body to fail a drug test
Do you have proof for this?
Find a MD whose legitimacy can be verrified via Google. Have him/her on standby during your speedruns. And take a blood test directly after you achieve a new record.
Otherwise I won't believe you!
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Do you have proof for this?
Find a MD whose legitimacy can be verrified via Google. Have him/her on standby during your speedruns. And take a blood test directly after you achieve a new record.
Otherwise I won't believe you!
:rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:
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https://rankings.the-elite.net/~Irie+Butler/time/135412
I rest my case.
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It is very disrespectful of you to assume that Irie does not have 10k. He is a well respected and talented glass maker, with a nice house located in Silicon Valley. I believe you owe Irie an apology, or you might be banned from the forums soon.
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When did Ace break into Alka's forum account :nesquik:
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"I don't think you have 10k."
I do though, and I'll double it to $20,000 under the same conditions.
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"I don't think you have 10k."
I do though, and I'll double it to $20,000 under the same conditions.
Oh dayum, the hammer has been LAID. :o