The Elite Forum
The Big Three Plus One => General Chat => Topic started by: TheFlash on May 28, 2019, 03:31:40 pm
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We made N64 input display devices in 2015:
Round Zero (https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=20686)
Round One -- Look in here for pictures and stuff (https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=20700)
Even though I haven't used one since then and I bet no one else has either, I heard people are interested in getting more of these.
It looks like most of the items still exist on online marketplaces:
N64 Extension Cables (6 feet) - ~$4
Any small arduino-ish board with USB-to-Serial - ~$5
Handy enclosure - ~$2.50
Micro USB cable (optional) - ~$5
This is just a rough estimate, but it will probably cost about $20 to $25 to make one of these.
If anyone knows of a small board with USB-to-Serial onboard or other solution that would be cheaper than $10, we could lower the cost...it's not like the NintendoSpy program needs much of anything.
Edit: Found one for under $5 that looks about right.
Who's interested?
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Update, 6 June 2019:
How do I get one?
1. Figure out how you want me to ship it.
2. Send me some money (In the past people used PayPal...if you have some other way to send me money, that can work too. Amazon Gift cards? Probably fine.)
3. Send me your address so I can send it.
How much does shipping cost?
Depends where you are.
If you're in the USA, it's probably easiest for me to send it via USPS. I'm pretty sure the bulky ends of the cables are going to make it too thick (over 3/4 inch) to ship at the first class envelope rate (~$2). So whether I put them in bubble mailers or a small box, the first class package rate is going to put them at around $5 each to ship, plus whatever it costs for the packaging. It will definitely fit in the Priority Mail Flat Rate Small Box, which is $7.90 and includes the shipping, packaging, and a fast delivery.
For those of you from Australia...I can deliver any claimed cables to Alka Maass at the SGDQ hotel around noon on Monday 23 June if you've already paid for them and arranged this by that point.
Anyone from somewhere else in the world, it's probably going to be somewhere in the $5 to $10 range for the cheapest option? I can't remember how much it was last time I sent stuff far away.
How much does the item cost?
Adding up the numbers from above, I paid $181.30 for the main items needed to make 14 cables. That would be about $13 per cable. You could subtract a little bit for the leftover materials I mentioned. Maybe add a little bit for the overhead/supplies part. You may or may not place a value on my time to assemble them.
I hope I don't end up losing money on this....but you can pay whatever you think it is worth.
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I am interested.
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I am interested.
Ok. I placed an order for some of the components and will give it a test run within a week or so.
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I'm interested. Would take 2 even (for 2.x display).
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If postage to Australia isn't exorbitant, or if it can get to Alka before he comes here in July, I'm in
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me and a bunch of others, i'll try to round them up and get each to post here
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Interested, just pm me before you make it so i can figure out where to ship it to :)
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Yeah I would like to get one again. 😀
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Mark me down as interested as well plz
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If postage to Australia isn't exorbitant, or if it can get to Alka before he comes here in July, I'm in
Up for doing this, remember to send me a DM on discord or forums to ask before doing so
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I'm interested
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I did a prototype/experimenting session tonight. I'll share the results here for feedback before proceeding. I have enough supplies for somewhere between 10 and 15 of these on hand now.
The original batch from 2015 seemed to work okay, but there were some things about them I didn't like a ton. I was a little bit limited at my workbench at the time so it was mostly just a "best effort" attempt. My primary concerns were:
- Cable stress relief
- Splice connection reliability
- Board connection reliability
- Overall package stability (keep the board from wiggling around)
I think I can improve on all of these this time around. Here are some screenshots from playing around with one tonight:
Cable stress relief: Let's loop the cables through the enclosure so the business ends are isolated. I think it looks better than the old way too.
(https://www.upload.speedrunwiki.com/images/misc/N2CableThrough.png)
(https://www.upload.speedrunwiki.com/images/misc/N2Finished.png)
Splice connections: If you look at the images from last time....the main through-wires weren't even actually cut. I just stripped a section and attached a jumper to the board. With this design I'll need to cut them all, so let's make sure we have a good solid splice connection.
The wires are pretty small gauge...bending them sharply for an inline splice will probably break many strands. So in my opinion a pigtail style connection is probably going to be best since there is strain prevention in the cable arrangement already.
Here I've twisted the stripped ends, soldered them, and wrapped with heat shrink tubing. Any better ideas?
(https://www.upload.speedrunwiki.com/images/misc/N2CableSplice.png)
Board connections: Similar idea to the cable stress prevention...loop the wire through the board for stability. They are super fine. So we can drill through the hole adjacent to the target hole:
(https://www.upload.speedrunwiki.com/images/misc/N2SafeLoop.png)
Then loop through for a protected solder joint (see green wire, bottom right):
(https://www.upload.speedrunwiki.com/images/misc/N2Inside.png)
The other option would be to attach some sort of header clip to them....anyone have any reason this won't be good?
Overall package: Turns out the cable-through approach provides a really stable base for the board. Along with the better stress protection, no icky hot glue is needed. Yay.
(https://www.upload.speedrunwiki.com/images/misc/N2Completed.jpg)
Suggestions? Improvement ideas? Let me know what you think. This was a rough go at it with changes on the fly as I went...subsequent attempts will probably be marginally more pretty on the outside at least.
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I'd definitely be interested.
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Interested
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Update: I found some breadboard jumper wires with crimped on pins that are a good fit. Bent 90 degrees they seem to be a great alternative to just soldering the stranded wire. And I can run them through a corner hole instead of drilling out a different one.
(https://www.upload.speedrunwiki.com/images/misc/B646448055CB4EA4BC24B8F80EF.jpg)
I will proceed to attach similar wires to all my boards and start working on the cuts needed to squeeze them into the enclosures.
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I would get one as well, would be good to have
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I now have 14 working cables:
(https://www.upload.speedrunwiki.com/images/misc/InputFourteen.jpg)
In case anyone wonders in the future and doesn't want to break theirs open, this is what they look like inside:
(https://www.upload.speedrunwiki.com/images/misc/InputInside.jpg)
They have varying levels of prettiness...a couple have weird flaws or whatever. It's not going to look like it came from a factory.
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People have been asking about getting one....priority order so far:
Sold
1. MadmanFlechr
2. flicker
3. Joshua Nash
4. Sammy Rogers
5. Kyto
6. Kyto
7. Cal
8. Wally
9. BK
10. Yendis
11. meleeman
12. Weatherton
13. TYG
Asked to buy one
14. Kevin B. -- not Booth, the other one...he only told me on Discord and didn't post here, it was around 24 hours before this post
"Interested"
15. Niiro Kitsune
So it looks like these people have first claims...even if every single one of them takes what they asked for, there should be one remaining.
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As far as how much these cost me to make...here's what I paid for, including shipping and whatever:
16x 6 foot N64 controller extension cable - $59.88
15x Arduino Nano clone - $60.96
25x Small USB enclosure - $60.46
I think I have 1 cut and 1 uncut N64 controller extension cable left, and maybe around 5 of the USB enclosures. There were only 14 of the computer boards in the package and so far I haven't taken it up with the seller to see if I can get the missing one, which explains why we only ended up with 14 cables.
I also had to use around 30 breadboard jumper wires and 30 heat shrink segments which probably have some cost....and various other supplies/overhead like solder, drill bits, electricity, etc.
I think I spent around 6 hours experimenting with how to fit the items in the package nicely and to make the first one, then somewhere between 4 and 6 hours to put together all the remaining ones.
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How do I get one?
1. Figure out how you want me to ship it.
2. Send me some money (In the past people used PayPal...if you have some other way to send me money, that can work too. Amazon Gift cards? Probably fine.)
3. Send me your address so I can send it.
How much does shipping cost?
Depends where you are.
If you're in the USA, it's probably easiest for me to send it via USPS. I'm pretty sure the bulky ends of the cables are going to make it too thick (over 3/4 inch) to ship at the first class envelope rate (~$2). So whether I put them in bubble mailers or a small box, the first class package rate is going to put them at around $5 each to ship, plus whatever it costs for the packaging. It will definitely fit in the Priority Mail Flat Rate Small Box, which is $7.90 and includes the shipping, packaging, and a fast delivery.
For those of you from Australia...I can deliver any claimed cables to Alka Maass at the SGDQ hotel around noon on Monday 23 June if you've already paid for them and arranged this by that point.
Anyone from somewhere else in the world, it's probably going to be somewhere in the $10 to $15 range for the cheapest option? I can't remember how much it was last time I sent stuff far away.
How much does the item cost?
Adding up the numbers from above, I paid $181.30 for the main items needed to make 14 cables. That would be about $13 per cable. You could subtract a little bit for the leftover materials I mentioned. Maybe add a little bit for the overhead/supplies part. You may or may not place a value on my time to assemble them.
I hope I don't end up losing money on this....but you can pay whatever you think it is worth.
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Side note: You need a micro USB cable. It is the kind of thing that almost everyone probably has at least one of already. If you don't, go get one...they are available at many, many types of stores online and out in the world.
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I’ll definitely buy one! :nesquik:
You want Venmo or PayPal?
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PayPal.
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I sent $26.05 that was all that was in my PayPal I can send more once it transfers from my bank but it might take a few more days.
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Thanks. I'll need your address too. Can't sent it today, I'm away from home. But tomorrow I will.
And MadmanFlechr's shipped today. Only 12 left unclaimed!
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Officially claiming one now then. Let's get in touch.
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I'll pay for mine with PP for Alka-post, will be in touch
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It must arrive to me before June 29th though.
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It must arrive to me before June 29th though.
Can I drop it off to you at the Minneapolis Speedrun Event on Monday 24 June, around midday?
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DM me on discord to discuss, just sent friend request
edit: okay flash/eliza will drop off the input displays at the GDQ hotel, if it somehow doesn't work out he can just two day ship it to my house
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Shipping figures are more clear now:
First Class International Package in a bubble mailer to Canada is about $10.50
First Class Package to USA in a bubble mailer is about $3.50
Priority Mail Package to USA is about $8
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Now that people are starting to get their packages, I will place a note about using the hardware.
When you plug in your micro USB cable to the device and to your computer, your computer may or may not recognize the board as a USB-to-Serial device and register it on a COM port immediately. If it does not, you may need to download and install a driver for "CH340" -- the USB-to-Serial chip in this board. Some information can be found in English at this website:
https://sparks.gogo.co.nz/ch340.html
You probably also want to use software like NintendoSpy to read the controller signals. You can also use custom skins with that program to make the controller look pretty in a picture.
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So far 8 of the 14 have been paid for. I'll probably bring most of the unclaimed ones with me to VA on Monday in case anyone there wants one, so if you're still interested you should get back in touch sooner rather than later.
I haven't had anyone come crying about the thing totally not working.....yet.....
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All sold.
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I received my input displays yesterday.
Installation was super easy:
1) Plugged it in and drivers got automatically installed (on Windows 7)
2) Downloaded & launched NintendoSpy
3) Added a new Game Capture source on OBS Studio
and BOOM that's it.
I have a bit of flickering where the stick every now and then quickly flickers down on NintendoSpy (Blink Reduction option didn't fix this). I don't know if it's related to my USB ports being faulty or badly configured but that's my best bet at the moment. This happens with both of the input displays on 2 different USB ports (both front of the PC tho).
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I have a bit of flickering where the stick every now and then quickly flickers down on NintendoSpy (Blink Reduction option didn't fix this). I don't know if it's related to my USB ports being faulty or badly configured but that's my best bet at the moment. This happens with both of the input displays on 2 different USB ports (both front of the PC tho).
This tends to happen when the firmware program has trouble properly reading the signal. If the firmware program is updated in the future, you will be able to reprogram the device to get those updates. Not a ton we can do about it otherwise.
Glad you were able to get them to work with your computer. One user reported that his device isn't working yet.
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Final update after all this time to wrap this up.
One person had a cable on reserve but unpaid, then later decided they didn't want it. That cable has just recently been sold so this whole batch is done.
I'm going to put some numbers in here just in case anyone gets the idea they'd like to try this themselves. Including me. Future me. Read this.
Created 14 cables.
Supplies: $195.20 (extension cables, mini boards, enclosures, shipment packaging -- not counting bits of solder, wire, or other small things)
Revenue: $390.55 from 13 customers (one person bought 2 cables)
Payment methods:
Paypal - 11
Cash - 2
Actual shipping costs:
International bubble mailer: $14.25
Domestic Priority Mail: $7.90
Domestic First Class package (bubble mailer): $3.74
Cost was "pay what you wish" -- most common payment amounts were $35, $25, and $20, but these had no particular relationship to the shipping cost for that person.
Made money on: 12 sales (highest $14.44, most either $6-$7 or $13-$15)
Lost money on: 1 sale (-$2.72)
Highest profit from one sale: $14.44
Total profit: $117.27
Total hours including research, ordering, labor, customer support, packaging: probably in the neighborhood of 20, with around 10 hours from project start to having 2 completed cables, then only a few more hours to finish the other 12.
Income per hour of work: somewhere around $5 to $6
Production cost per cable, not including labor: $13.94
I am thinking you could get this under $10 with this "buy stuff and assemble" strategy, but just not sure about how. At the least you can probably get it a couple dollars lower by buying the parts from overseas or in larger batches. A lot of the labor time was to make custom cuts and stuff on the plastic enclosures to get things to fit correctly -- this could be improved and I think labor could be brought down to around 10-15 minutes per board without going crazy.
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Also, surprise.
(https://www.upload.speedrunwiki.com/images/misc/ScreenShot20191013at121204A.png)
This was secretly a fundraiser for the site. Everyone who bought one is now an official donor to the-elite.net and the $117.27 in profit (my labor is free) has been sent to the donation pool. It will be used to offset hosting costs for the various websites and services the-elite.net offers.
Go high-five yourselves and feel free to wear a "I'm a donor" badge or something. Consider yourselves to all have donated $8.37 except that one guy who bought two donated twice that. We don't seem to have the online listing anymore but I think you needed to donate $20 to get on that anyway (:-D).