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The Big Three Plus One => GoldenEye 007 => Topic started by: Herppa on March 25, 2020, 05:35:15 pm

Title: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Herppa on March 25, 2020, 05:35:15 pm
I've been looking for an agent TAS of goldeneye for AGES. I finally found what seems to be what I am looking for.
http://tasvideos.org/1769S.html
the run is not on youtube and is 18 seconds slower than WR. I am still curious about what it looks like so if anyone can get the vid that would be really appreciated!
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: gideon on March 25, 2020, 07:18:26 pm
Seem to have found a link to the vid:
https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm3915508
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Joris on March 26, 2020, 12:35:40 pm
Re-Uploaded it on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVtnOC1xoxc
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Spurdo____ on March 26, 2020, 01:02:41 pm
Times:

Dam: 54
Facility: 43
Runway: 23
Surface 1: 1:01
Bunker 1: 17
Silo: 58
Frigate: [frame is skipped]
Surface 2: 49
Bunker 2: 24
Statue: [frame is skipped]
Archives: 16
Streets: 1:14
Depot: [frame is skipped]
Train: [Blended endscreen with jungle. The time is shown as 50, which also is the time from Jungle so idk.]
Jungle: 50
Control: 3:53
Caverns: 1:01 [also a blended endscreen with cradle, but time is obviously correct]
Cradle: 34

Comparison of the Train (l) and Jungle (r) endscreen frames:
(https://i.imgur.com/MIXS7A3.png)
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Herppa on March 26, 2020, 02:35:29 pm
I find it funny how it can achieve times such as silo 58 and control 3:53, yet also has streets 1:14 and dam 54 which eren't even worth points anymore :nesquik:
One thing I find interesting is the surface 1:01. It was supposedly achieved with 1.1 and lost about a second on the locks due to the last lock tacking forever. this would've make it a 1:00 / low 1:01 pace with 1.2. I find it quite unbelievable that lag can make it 2 seconds slower on console.
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Wyst3r on March 26, 2020, 03:05:40 pm
KF7 shoots faster on emu, hence faster locks. Also as you might've noticed, I don't do alot of luck manipulation in that TAS (that's the most time consuming part) so not alot of boosts/slow gate etc..., which is why Dam/Runway/Streets didn't match the WRs even back then. Obviously TAS is far more advantaged over console on more complex levels, hence why train/control are better. Not sure why I didn't grenade juggle on Runway though, might've had a graphics plugins where the sky was screwed up or something, don't remember.

I think Train was 50 in the full run, and later improved by 3iikka to 47 by using ZMG + Laser glitch.

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18 seconds slower than WR

TAS measures time differently. It's from power on -> last input before credits.
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Herppa on March 26, 2020, 03:22:39 pm
If you were to remaster the TAS with modern-day knowledge, how big of an improvement do you think it will have?
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Dusky on March 26, 2020, 03:46:47 pm
yo henrik, just double checking but i think this run is actually way faster than the actual RTA record, but I've always noticed in TAS runs that the time between menus to levels is EXTREMELY slow, like slower than console. Do you know why it's like that?
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Wyst3r on March 26, 2020, 04:11:57 pm
Didn't know that actually.

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If you were to remaster the TAS with modern-day knowledge, how big of an improvement do you think it will have?

At least 40 seconds, probably closer to 50-60 seconds.
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: MadmanFlechr on March 26, 2020, 05:28:07 pm
I'd love to see up-to-date full game TAS runs for GE and PD. I've always enjoyed watching well-constructed TAS runs and it's a shame we don't have a modern one lying around implementing the more insane IL strats found recently (ie. M-strat, 2.3 frig, etc.). I realize IL TAS runs exist but I've always enjoyed the entertainment value of watching the whole game start to finish.
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Joris on March 26, 2020, 05:33:30 pm
might do a list of all the goldeneye TAS rta that exist,
i remember seeing a page where there was all the tas IL TAS WR too, would be interesting to find it again
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Blue Khakis on March 26, 2020, 06:00:14 pm
i remember seeing a page where there was all the tas IL TAS WR too, would be interesting to find it again
This one? (https://ge-tas.webs.com/)
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Joris on March 26, 2020, 06:12:47 pm
yes thank you
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Whiteted on March 27, 2020, 01:29:20 pm
https://ge-tas.webs.com/ (https://ge-tas.webs.com/) is still pretty up to date less Frigate, S1, Runway afaik.
I'd watched that agent TAS before but I'd not noticed that lots of the records on the TAS records page aren't from that run - is there another complete agent TAS? Or do they just come from various IL runs like Simon Sternis' :59 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKqaLP1ls-k)

I've been doing some thinking about TASing and I think I may have changed my mind on doing a full run.
As the TAS records page shows, there's never been a full SA TAS and I'd been thinking of commiting to one around when I was cooking up some TAS routes for Frigate SA. The only current time which doesn't look weak is B2 SA 35 (which I assume is a modern Henrik). As I saw it there were 2 big issues with this idea:

But I've dreamt up some solutions  :laugh:

Firstly I'm planning on putting the majority of my effort into making a 'TASbot' rather than actually investing in just the run. This can be independent of the emulator, so can be reapplied when there's a usable, accurate emulator (which tasvideos will accept runs from).

Secondly, I watched the 00a TAS back at lunch and I count that there are now 10 levels that have new(ish) TAS strats, which is many more than I expected. Originally I thought that if I beat the existing 00a TAS it would be 'on a technicality', but I count a solid 30 seconds that can be cut.

As such I'm now thinking of TASing all 60 as with a good TASbot this wouldn't be too much more work than TASing 20.
This will obviously still be a lot of work, but of however much progress I do make, I can guarantee that In-Game time will be the only target. So I'll be using 2.3 on Frig and watching some cinemas and actually showing endscreens. Expect a 80 minute epic with all the loads.
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Wyst3r on March 27, 2020, 04:26:20 pm
Quote
The only current time which doesn't look weak is B2 SA 35 (which I assume is a modern Henrik)

Nope: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV520pNU8Q0

Quote
I'd watched that agent TAS before but I'd not noticed that lots of the records on the TAS records page aren't from that run - is there another complete agent TAS? Or do they just come from various IL runs like Simon Sternis' :59

Most of them are IL's from Simon. Check his YT channel.

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General lag is low and it has these immense lag spikes when you look at certain areas / weapon switch.

This extra lag allows for some crazy door warps. See my incomplete Frigate run, or Silo bridge door, where I get a warp without even switching weapons, which turned out to be a big time saver since it allowed me to warp the next door immediately. Not sure if Cinema helped with the warps?

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Firstly I'm planning on putting the majority of my effort into making a 'TASbot' rather than actually investing in just the run.

This was my idea back when I quit TASing as well. It's just way too much work to do everything manually, plus it's mostly just brute forcing anyway, so using a bot makes alot of sense. The main problem is luck manipulation, especially when combined with ultra precise movement, such as door warps. A good example is Silo, where you do a door warp just before pausing for the DAT, where the scientist have to throw it to you. Of course, if you don't care too much about aesthetics (I tried to avoid randomly shooting weapon/changing camera angle, hiding the fact that any manipulation was done at all, and making sure things just look pleasing it general to maximize entertainment) and can waste some time in pause menu then it might be alot easier. Frigate is even worse, since there's so many crazy precise door warps (alot of the warps I got in my unfinished run I didn't even think were possible at first) at the same time as manipulating death animations/hostages/boosts etc... Often times, the only way to affect the RNG without losing time is to go back and redo a bunch of stuff. Unfortunately, TASing itself often requires luck, sometimes you get outcomes that just can't be easily replicated.

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Secondly, I watched the 00a TAS back at lunch and I count that there are now 10 levels that have new(ish) TAS strats, which is many more than I expected. Originally I thought that if I beat the existing 00a TAS it would be 'on a technicality', but I count a solid 30 seconds that can be cut.

My newer unfinished 00A TAS already beat the previous one by quite alot (in TAS terms at least), so yeah with all the new strats there's definitely some massive cuts to be made.
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: MadmanFlechr on March 27, 2020, 06:36:07 pm
As such I'm now thinking of TASing all 60 as with a good TASbot this wouldn't be too much more work than TASing 20.
This will obviously still be a lot of work, but of however much progress I do make, I can guarantee that In-Game time will be the only target. So I'll be using 2.3 on Frig and watching some cinemas and actually showing endscreens. Expect a 80 minute epic with all the loads.

I would love you forever.
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Herppa on March 27, 2020, 06:45:38 pm
An all 60 TAS would literally be the greatest thing that would happen in goldeneye speerunning
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Whiteted on March 27, 2020, 06:56:01 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV520pNU8Q0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV520pNU8Q0)
Most of them are IL's from Simon. Check his YT channel.
Wow 2009 that's pretty nice. I've seen a few of his TASes but clearly not enough.

Quote
Quote
General lag is low and it has these immense lag spikes when you look at certain areas / weapon switch.

This extra lag allows for some crazy door warps. See my incomplete Frigate run, or Silo bridge door, where I get a warp without even switching weapons, which turned out to be a big time saver since it allowed me to warp the next door immediately. Not sure if Cinema helped with the warps?
Haha yeah that warp is bordering on emulator bug abuse, though I've seen a slightly less extreme warp of that door on console around here somewhere.

Quote
The main problem is luck manipulation, especially when combined with ultra precise movement, such as door warps.
  Of course, if you don't care too much about aesthetics .. and can waste some time in pause menu then it might be a lot easier.

Yeah I've got plans to make every class of 'run section' offer some degree of "redo this for different RNG", but often I'll fall back on just waiting in the pause spinning the virtual controller :)
My #1 concern is IGT rounded down, aesthetics just need to keep tasvideos happy.

Quote
My newer unfinished 00A TAS already beat the previous one by quite alot (in TAS terms at least), so yeah with all the new strats there's definitely some massive cuts to be made.

Have you missed
my one good TAS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=972hg-gOgdA)?

The 00a run is a little disappointing because I was lazy once I'd freed all my hostages and it meant I couldn't set up *the trick* to jet-propel the final hostage to his destination.. but the route is definitely faster for 00a because it's faster for Bond. But A is v. good and SA is decent.

Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Whiteted on March 27, 2020, 06:58:14 pm
An all 60 TAS would literally be the greatest thing that would happen in goldeneye speerunning

I would love you forever.

<3

I've started drawing up plans so it's happening!
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Whiteted on March 28, 2020, 10:40:06 am
Also all my TAS watching recently recommended this person - do we know them?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb7pi688bz_IfLtnDO9FfBA (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb7pi688bz_IfLtnDO9FfBA)

They have some relaxed TASes from 9 years ago and then some decent TASes recently, including an impressive S1 A 0:56 1.2 4:0 no tree shot locks.
4 of the others are also TAS untieds (though most of them are improvable)
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Herppa on March 28, 2020, 01:10:59 pm
Very impressed by how he got 4 boosts in s1, but I am curious on how he managed to get a guard at the door of the tower. I'm guessing it's not possible on console?
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Whiteted on March 28, 2020, 02:13:05 pm
That's the guard who gives you the Santos boost I assume, he must have seen Bond as he was going into the comms tower.
But yeah 4 boosts is mad.
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Wyst3r on March 29, 2020, 10:29:21 am
Even if he sees you, like most guards, he tends to end up underneath the catwalk to due the incorrect nav line there. Sometimes he'll even warp up the tower while you deactivate the console. Maybe there's some way to avoid this and make him go to the door but in my (very brief) testing I didn't get it once.

That double boost is kinda crazy. Especially for Agent.
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Herppa on March 29, 2020, 11:24:54 am
Finding a good setup for that boost would be very instrumental for 101. I'm sure there can be some cutscene magic or lag manip to prevent him from warping? Or is it pure RNG?
Title: Re: Long Lost Agent TAS
Post by: Irie on March 29, 2020, 03:54:45 pm
Having the guard near you and boost you would just make the locks laggy anyways. S1 agent 1:01 will happen without a boost, Calle is very close just needs a little more dedicated time into it