The Elite Forum
The Big Three Plus One => GoldenEye 007 => Topic started by: rhakiath on June 22, 2020, 12:20:07 pm
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This has been mentioned in a number of streams and seems to have a consensus agreeing the phenomenon exists but I haven't seen a forum topic detailing this knowledge and would like to know more details.
It seems that having lower health gives you a longer period before you can take damage again, whereas having full or near full health allows you to take multiple sources of damage in quicker succession. For example in Aztec or Caverns when you have low health but full body armor you can be exposed to gunfire but still control your movement as opposed to being healthy and getting boosted everywhere. This may also be more apparent on different difficulty settings or different guard stats from various levels, I'm not sure.
-Is there anything misunderstood or left out from this summary?
-Does this apply to drone guns or other sources of damage as well as guards? We know that a cycle exists for the drones to target various parts of their area but I've seen a fair bit of variance at times for when it will actually hit.
-Does general lag have anything to do with it? This may be more difficult to test given the imperfect emulation.
-What would be the total difference between max and ghost health in terms of Iframes? Could it make sense to intentionally take damage in some cases to consistently avoid backs or enable you to make it through a short section on LTK without being hit?
Lastly, I'd suggest adding any pertinent and detailed information to the GE facts topic sticky, since this mechanic isn't mentioned in it and any new players would never hear about it unless they took part in a stream where it was discussed. Thank you for helping to make the community better.
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If I remember correctly full health is 0.5 secs and then at some point it becomes 1 sec. Can't remember all the details though.
Could it make sense to intentionally take damage in some cases to consistently avoid backs or enable you to make it through a short section on LTK without being hit?
Yes. This has already been used e.g. to get through Aztec consoles.
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Interesting topic, this phenomenon was very imporant and easily observable on Bunker 1 with the old strat, i also noticed it a lot going for Bunker 1 0:16.
You basically get more invincibility frames when you have low health, i think it's also about how severe the damage is, if you get extremely low damage from an explosion and that you have full health your invincibility time is gonna be super short, if you take a very severe damage that lowers you health to ghost health then your invincibility time is going to be much longer.
I wonder if it applies for drones too, drones works on cycles, but i guess we'll have to test it
Lag could also be a factor but i don't know how significent it is.
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As far as Drones and health go see https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=18518.msg460592#msg460592 (https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=18518.msg460592#msg460592)
I never did make a post on drones, but they build up an 'intolerance' which starts at 0 and rises towards 1 the longer than you are in their stream of fire. Their stream of fire oscillates on a 2s cycle hence cinema timing.
When it hits 1 the drone immediately shoots and resets it's intolerance to 0, so if you are invincible in that moment then you avoid the shot - it won't wait for you or anything.
The rate at which the intolerance rises when you are in its line of sight has the same mechanic as damage linked in that post above, so halves from 60% health to 12.5% on agent ONLY. Also this 'health' includes BA. On SA / 00A they don't care about your health. Also while you are invulnerable the intolerance doesn't rise - it really is like the drone shoots you each frame.
I think the main point is that the intolerance only rises, so if you just get out of the drone's stream of fire (e.g. on aztec) before the drone hits, expect it immediately if you pop back in
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Very interesting, correct me if I'm wrong here:
From the post about the cavs drone it seems like there are 8 portions of the cycle spanning 2 seconds, and 4 zones that each get targeted twice as it oscillates. It seems like this is not only a visual thing as the bullets clearly move during the cycle, but also a hit can only occur if bond is in the currently active area.
So the "intolerance" value would also only go up if you're in the active area the drone is currently shooting at? As in if you went into the cavs tunnel on the left side and it were targeting the right zone at first you'd still have an intolerance of 0 when it switched to the left, and only then start building the value? Or does it start building when entering the drone's overall range but only hit you when you're in the currently active zone after it reaches max intolerance?
Also does your position (or the active area of the drone's cycle) for the purposes of hit checks update based on 60hz, or only on visual frame updates? Based on my understanding of collision and warping in the game, some calculations are skipped on lag frames on console which saves the engine a bit of work. If so, timely lag spikes could cause more likelihood of being hit if they occurred when the player would otherwise be out of danger on a subsequent frame, or give you more penetration into its range if one occurred right before entering it. Curious if the same would be true for guards as well.
-Does the intolerance value increment regularly, and how many internal 60hz frames would it take to reach 1 from 0?
-Does each individual drone have its own value, or is it static?
-Does anything other than the value reaching 1 and the drone shooting reset the value?
I had a lot of depot related musings but it's off topic and would deserve its own thread so I'll spare you for now. I appreciate the good info, anyone who can take a crack at any of these mysteries or bring any input to the discussion would be a legend.
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I'd be interested to see Henrik expand on the hitstun a little more, it would be helpful to know on jungle for instance exactly how much health you have to lose to have hitstun go from .5 to 1 second. I definitely noticed that it wasn't super varying but didn't realize it's literally just a point where it goes from .5 to 1 seconds lol.
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Did a quick test, and got these results:
| Health | Invincibility |
| > 0.5X | 0.5 secs |
| >= 0.2X && <= 0.5X | 0.5 - 1.0 secs |
| < 0.2X | 1.0 secs |
The upper limit was somewhere between 0.60 and 0.56 I think? And the lower is between 0.2566 and 0.2167. So might be 0.6 and 0.25, but not sure. Between the upper and lower limits, the value is gradually increasing, possibly in a linear fashion.
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With the 4 areas you are refering to Henrik's post describing the motion? I think those are just stages of the motion. The intolerance just rises when you are in / very close to the stream of bullets.
It's worth understanding that on cavs you get through when the drone's fire is off to the right in its cycle. The bullets hit the wall before they reach you so you aren't in their line of fire.
Does the intolerance value increment regularly, and how many internal 60hz frames would it take to reach 1 from 0?
Iirc it's incremented every game frame and takes into account how many frames were passed.
Does each individual drone have its own value, or is it static?
Static for pretty much everything relevant I think - the 2s cycle, intolerance rates, damage
Does anything other than the value reaching 1 and the drone shooting reset the value?
Nope.
On lag, I think guards hitting you and so drones shooting you are done before you move, so trying to warp out of the drone's fire will be a bad idea.
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Wait are you saying that for instance the more the drones see you on the start of jungle then the more likely you'll get back boosted for the last couple?
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Oh sorry I misunderstood that second question. Each drone has it's own intolerance value, there's not one global one. So no to your question irie.
The things which seem to be static across all drones are:
- Their cycle is 2s
- The amount of damage they deal
- How fast their intolerance rises when you are in their line of fire
I'll look at drones a bit more seriously sometime and iron out some of the details, but I doubt there's much to be done on depot with it
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How does intolerance work when Bond has partial cover? For example in the beginning elevator on Control, if you just step right out of the elevator the drone hits you pretty quickly, but the more you hug the left wall of the door the longer it takes for the drone to hit you. If you wait long enough it will, though it can take several cycles depending on how much cover you have.
I would assume that this works the same way guard accuracy is affected by partial cover, however guard accuracy seems to be much more random whereas the drone seems to have a much more consistent amount of time before it hits you based on the amount of cover you have. Does intolerance increase slower when you have partial cover? Or does intolerance increase at the same rate but when it reaches 1 there is a chance to hit or miss you based on the amount of cover Bond has? If the latter is the case, when Bond has no cover is there still a chance it can miss or does it always hit (assuming not in an Iframe)
Also I assume intolerance increases faster on 00A vs. SA vs. A? Seems like it from Aztec's big room and also the beginning of Control. Are there known set rates?
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If you have partial cover then the drone is probably only "hitting you" and increasing it's intolerance during part of it's 2s cycle. So that will explain why it takes longer to hit 1.
As for guard accuracy it's something I'd like to look into but I don't know anything about it.
For A/SA/00A comparison I'd have to do some reversing :)
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Would partial cover apply to solid walls only, or would penetrable walls/objects or even NPCs also block their line of fire?