The Elite Forum
Nonsense Time => FFA => Topic started by: Dusky on February 26, 2021, 03:53:50 am
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Hey, just looking for some general advice here since I know a lot of the guys here are older. I have a feeling like I need to do something drastic, huge, risk taking to get somewhere that I want to be. I legitimately want to know from anyone here, have you ever done something huge or risk taking in your life in terms of decisions and was it worth it? Appreciate y'all <3
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I'll share some thoughts about finding direction in life. Perhaps I'm not the #1 person you were hoping to hear advice from, and I hope I don't kill the thread, and that others will also post their thoughts and advice, but I'm chilling here on the couch after a bath, and these posts are good opportunities for reflection, so here goes....
First, as far as doing something big and drastic, I've never really done something like that. Sometimes it can work out for people... it seems to be working out for our old pal Woody; but equally, for many others, it can end terribly; getting entangled in a career/path you are no happier with, feeling less able to leave that path since you decided to take a "huge jump" to get into it, huge waste of money, naivety in a new environment leading to you becoming an easy target of crime/manipulation/abuse etc. You get it right; if yo take a "huge jump", but still end up in an unhappy job/career/path/relationship, it can be even harder to leave, because your mind tricks you into worrying about the "sunk cost" of leaving this new path. But anyhow, I hope others can chime in with better input there.
As far as direction goes, here are two stories: one about someone many here might know (or know of), and one about myself, and how to see the "path" you're on in life.
So the first of those stories, I'll write about speedrun YouTuber Bismuth; a guy whom I've seen go from largely directionless, to being on a positive and fulfilling path these days. I first met him in Twitch chat, around 2012-13. We met in summer 2013 when I was out in QC to attend tennis matches, and I learned then that he was similar to many of us, in many of ways; unsure of what path to go on, not exactly feeling fulfilled with school, just an uncertain dude around 20 years old, wondering where tf to go and what to do (he talked about this a little recently in his Q&A video). We met again at AGDQ 2014. At that event, he had a great performance in his Minecraft speedrun. People really enjoyed his wholesome character and kind energy, and he was really a big hit. Knowing that he didn't really have "direction" at the time, I often wondered why he didn't pursue becoming a Minecraft speedrunner/YouTuber at that time, and I would often give him heck for squandering that opportunity. Again, in 2015-16, he would have great performances at AGDQ playing Super Mario Maker, and once again, he would never really try to capitalize on that platform, by making content or regularly streaming or whatever. To me, it seemed like he was wasting big opportunities once again, but I was kind of away from my online life at the time, so I never really pressed him on it.
Eventually, I suppose he finally realized that, the answer can often be right under your nose. And instead of messing around again in school or working unfulfilling jobs, he decided to go for it and make something of himself by making epic speedrun YouTube videos. And it's really awesome to see. It was always very obvious to me, someone from the outside, that he had the potential and ability to gain success in making digital content about gaming, and after a couple of great opportunities passed him over, I suppose he finally realized he had to seize the day and make it happen. He seems to be on an upward trend, he has a unique talent with his own amazing piano soundtrack, and his recent Mario Kart 64 video was fucking amazing. Watching it made me think, "jeeze, I gotta step up my game", which means that he's gotten to this point where he is inspiring and motivating others. That's a far cry from being this sort of lost, uncertain, struggling dude back in 2013-14. Even though we're not as close anymore, he gave me a nice tweet at the beginning of the year in response to some CEEMI stuff I tweeted, and I'm really happy to see he's finally found success, and more importantly, direction. It was always obvious that he *should* end up doing something related to all the gaming/speedrun/Twitch/YouTube stuff where his mind clearly was, all the while he was attending school and working unfulfilling jobs in 2013-14; and I'm glad that he's finally gotten around to it, *and* that it's working out for him.
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So now I'll write a bit about myself. I felt similarly to you, especially from when I was 16-21 years old, and I'm sure there are many threads lying around these very forums, posts of me crying about it, lashing out at others, and otherwise being an idiotic, directionless, teen/young man. Again, it was obvious that my mind was always on these sorts of video games, speedrunning, etc, and no matter what else I was doing in life, I would always come back to it. In 2012-14, I was still mostly just fumbling around online, but I did manage to at least grow a little bit of following, and felt positive about it. I remember after getting Twitch partner in 2014, it felt for the first time in my life, that I actually was enjoying what I was doing, and had a sense of purpose and direction; (though the amount of success and income still had a ways to go). I decided to apply to go back to college in 2014, in all honesty, entirely to appease my parents, who in fairness, were worried their son was becoming some kind of directionless, degenerate, wasting his life away into his mid twenties. And college, (unlike university a few years prior), actually worked out for me. I actually learned some valuable skills, like being introduced to the Adobe Creative Software, and so it's safe to say I actually got something out of it.
So in 2017-18, I began putting these skills to use, and actually began gaining some success and direction in making my content online. I remember, by 2018, growing my following, my income increasing, my social status increasing, that I finally felt "fulfilled", for truly the first time in my life. I actually felt like I was on the right path and doing what I was supposed to be doing. I had the same "direction" that I mentioned in 2014, but I also had growing income and social status, so it truly felt like I had finally figured it all out.
Of course, I didn't; because while this aspect of my life was in good order, another aspect of my life was in complete disorder, and when the two collided, everything inevitably fucked up. That's why life can be so fucking hard; you can start to get a lot of your life figured out, but you might have one or two aspects in your life messed up, and they can mess EVERYTHING up. Just imagine a brilliant doctor or lawyer, who is also a severe alcoholic, or heroin addict, or morbidly obese, or a fucking racist, or cheating on his wife/family, or whatever it may be. It's all the same principle. Drug abuse/alcohol abuse /binge eating/conspiracy theories/hate/cheating/etc are all coping mechanisms people abuse to distract them or make them feel *something* which they are otherwise missing in their ordinary life. Stay away from these. Even if you do manage to find your sense of purpose & direction, it can still be incredibly easy to get derailed in your personal life, and fuck everything up. It's an important lesson to know and understand, and it's why I've included this piece of the story. The positive side of all this, as it relates to you, is that we've seen in the past 1-2 years, you've taken huge steps to improve your health/weight, which is a really difficult thing, and a thing which a lot of men never get figured out. And it is one of many things which can absolutely derail your life, even if you do manage to find the right path/direction.
Since then, I've mostly just been floating around, trying to get back on track and figure things out. Establishing the CEEMI values has truly helped keep me on the rails. Things are going ok. I don't know if I'll do what I'm doing forever. I usually have a "hard" plan for the next 2-3 months forward (like I know what videos/content I'll make for the next 2-3 months), and I usually have a "soft" plan for about a year ahead. But other than that, I mostly take things day by day. If things continue the way they are, in 1-2 years I might be able to finally buy a house in rural ON, and start the next chapter of my life, hopefully finding a wife and starting a family. That's my "vision" going ahead. And that's all I really know. I don't know exactly where my life will lead, I still have many aspects of my own life to fix/improve, but I try, and things are alright, so I'll keep rolling on.
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So now let's talk about you. To me, it's extremely obvious that you have immense skill in online/digital content creation. And perhaps, just like Bismuth, it might take you a while to really understand that this is a viable path for you to pursue. Perhaps you fear what your family, friends, etc, will think; perhaps you fear the fucked up world of online influencers & culture (these are all fair fears). But to me, it's just so obvious. Your editing skills are incredible... it would probably take me 1-2 years of concerted effort in learning how to improve my editing & work flow to get close to where you are now. You're naturally funny, and you have a great sense of what "sells/works/gets likes" online. You know the culture. It is fucking scary to put yourself out there, but your editing is so damn good, you might not even have to. I think of a guy like Dave Prezoh, who started editing clips/vids for Clint Stevens, now edits for Cold Ones, one of the biggest podcasts on YouTube; you could absolutely take a similar path to that. A lot of Pewdiepie's editors have followed similar paths, where they've gone on to become well known personalities themselves. Guys like Granday & Dolan Dark do well, I think Quackity was some meme shitter like that too, and eventually turned into one of the biggest names in Minecraft stan Twitter. Anyways, you get the picture.
So while all that shit may be obvious to me, from what I see, obviously I don't see the full picture. Perhaps there are other skills/interests you have which you are just as passionate about, or get your attention on a regular basis. If so, just do it. Just follow where you naturally want to go. I think for many of us dudes, growing up online, we always had this remnant "concern" about what our family would think, that we're just losers on computers, etc. And that definitely used to be true. But nowadays, even the coolest kids are online too, making millions of dollars. We were just ahead of our time; but we made ourselves feel like losers, shitting around wastefully on the computer. So perhaps that "concern" is still there, remnantly chilling in the back of your mind. Or on the other side of the coin, perhaps you want to do something completely different, not spend so much time behind a screen, and do something cool. Do it up, take the first step, see what you like, what you don't like, and give it a shot. Fuck it dude, we all go to dust in the end. I often have to remind myself that when I get too hard on myself.
If you want to make videos, just fucking keep doing it and see what works. If you want to start painting, just start painting. If you want to play music, start playing music. If you want to become a gardener, start planting plants & try to get a job at the local nursery. If you want to become a doctor/astrophysicist/etc you'll have to go back to university. It's OK to just float around and be uncertain, especially throughout your twenties, until you land upon something you finally realize is right for you. Your "job" in the meantime is to get the rest of your life in order, so that it doesn't fuck everything up for you once you finally find your PURPOSE & DIRECTION.
Oh yeah, and as far as recklessly throwing everything to the wind and doing something drastic; just be cautious if you do that. Elisa Lam and Chris McCandless come to mind as people in their early twenties who did similar, and things didn't end well. But perhaps that's just the part of my mind talking that got fried watching too many conspiracy/true crime videos.
Anyhow, I hope that all helps you, or another young person reading this post. I know what it's like to be your age and feel like you're floating around purposelessly. And to reiterate my biggest advice; it's ok to float around throughout your twenties, just keep the rest of your life enough in order so that it doesn't fuck everything up once you actually do find your purpose & direction. Thanks for giving me this opportunity to write so candidly, I haven't done so in a long, long time.
Cheers, stay true and CEEMI.
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That was a super fascinating read Goose, a lot of people have said similar about just keeping it together in your twenties and not falling into bad habits so that you're ready to do what you want to do eventually. I think I'll stick to this, as for pushing for what I REALLY want to do, sadly I currently am stuck in the situation of doing something to appease my parents because I do look like some idiot fumbling around on a computer to them. I might even potentially take up what you said and pursue something creative, I'm just very stood off by the idea because I don't think I have the ability to stand taller than the rest in the creative scene but sometimes I think I could be short selling myself. Maybe it doesn't take something big or drastic by standard definition, but in the scope of my world pursuing my creative side might be that big or drastic thing I keep peering into wanting to do, so maybe I should really just do it.
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I'll just briefly mention that big risks are, of course, risky. There's a whole myriad of possibilities with major decisions with some being amazing, and some being terrible. If you're happy and content with where you presently are, it's okay to keep things sailing smoothly in the nice, average middle.
I've moved across the country a total of three times so far. One of them went fantastically well and lead to my most cherished years of my life. The other two went very poorly and caused ridiculous amounts of stress and problems for awhile. In the end, everything worked itself out, but could have easily gone much worse (or better).
No one can ultimately decide for you what you should do, but sometimes taking risks are an important part of personal growth. Risk takers sometimes regret not having done the obvious (in hindsight) better option, while those who go the safe route their whole lives may end up with mid-life crises.
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As a 30 year old, I've had to hit the reset button a few times in my life. It's always a tough decision and there's no way of knowing if this most recent gamble of going back to school will work out any better than the last 2 times. It's hard not to regret the decisions I've made in the past, but honestly it seems like there are a lot people that have gone through or are going through similar situations to me. I just have to point myself in some sort of direction that makes sense and have some faith that it's bringing me closer to a life that I want to live. In terms of career specifically, I don't think you need to be working a job that you love, it just needs to be tolerable in someway or another, and hopefully afford you a comfortable enough life to pursue hobbies, interests, socializing, and whatnot. My last job was working with children at an out of school care. It was extremely stressful and though in some ways I was good at it, it didn't suit my introverted personality. Certainly I had dreams of "bigger" things in my past, but I don't know if I'd really like to be one of those people where my passion was my job because it seems like a lot of work with a lot of risk too. However, I really admire people (maybe jealous even) of people who are able to make it work for themselves and I'm not saying you shouldn't follow your dreams if that's what you want.
This might sound strange (and I don't want it to come off the wrong way), but the other day when I read on discord that you were upgrading you high school. Reading that was a bit of a relief to me, because I get the sense that you're a smart, talented individual and it made me feel better about myself knowing that even people like you can have difficulties in certain situations. Lots of people have struggles and setbacks, and a lot of those struggles other people don't see. I'm not sure what your plans are Dusky, or what specific issues you are struggling with, but just know that a lot of people make mistakes or whatever that seem incredibly awful in the moment, but are able to get through it. A quote that I think about from time to time is from the musical Hamilton: "Look at where you are. Look at where you started. The fact that you're alive is a miracle. Just stay alive, that would be enough." I don't know if it's exactly true in a sense of meaningful life, but for people that love you, that is all that matters. It certainly helps me take some pressure off when I'm in a bad place. I'm still alive. I'm still here.
There's no one way to determine what a great life is, and we all end up dead at the end. So just make of this crazy complicated life what you will. There's no instruction booklet or general life tutorial to follow.
[Sorry if this came off as ramblely or irrelevent to initial question, but I just kept getting new thoughts to add and don't want to spend all day trying to get it all to fit together nicely]
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It depends on what you mean by drastic and risk taking. Don't do something drastic for the sake of doing something drastic, but if something seems like a good opportunity or if you think its something that will make you happy then it can definitely be worth it.
I will be turning 35 this year, and I have taken a couple of drastic risks in my life. The biggest and most important however was when I was in my mid 20s (2013), I had taken 7 years to graduate college (university) because I had no idea what I wanted to do when I got out and was scared out of my mind of having to start a career with no idea what field to even go into. I was getting a degree in Physics because originally I wanted to go into research but I didn't enjoy it anymore and had no idea what else to do with a Physics degree after graduating. My girlfriend of 8 months at the time had just graduated with her Masters in International Relations and wanted some international experience and to learn a new language, so with no idea what I was going to do with my life we decided we should pack up our things and move to Shanghai, China for a year to teach English so I could just push off the responsibility of figuring out what I wanted to do. We got jobs and interviewed on skype and moved there Valentines Day 2013. We figured it would either accelerate the demise of a relationship that wasn't going to work out anyway, or it would bond us together forever.
The beginning was rough, we had moved there with around $3500 between the two of us. We got an apartment (which you have to pay 3 months in advance plus security, plus a realtor fee), and our first paychecks didnt come in until 45 days after starting work. We were eating packets of 50 cent noodles with soy sauce and sleeping on a wooden plank using our coats for blankets. Our friends and family were over 8000 miles away and the only people we really knew on the whole continent was each other. The day our paychecks came in we had a total of $8 left and a payment on our huge student loans due in a few days. We definitely had a few moments where we wondered if we had made a huge mistake.
When money started coming in slowly we were able to eat real meals, furnish our apartment, and then eventually start saving and travelling. We wound up staying 3 years because we met a lot of amazing people from all around the world and had a great time exploring Asia and immersing ourselves in a different culture. It was one of the best experiences of my life. I wound up changing jobs and teaching Physics at an International School, we learned conversational Mandarin and travelled all over China and to places like Vietnam, Cambodia and the Philippines. It turned out to be hands down the best decision I have ever made. It also taught me a lot of life lessons, like how to jump out of my comfort zone, how to get over my fear of public speaking, how to become a better negotiator (negotiations in China are intense) etc, all of which have been extremely helpful ever since.
Also the relationship worked out, we're now married and have a 4 month old daughter, and we're in the process of buying a house!
And while in college I also felt like I was being pushed by my parents to do something I didn't want to do, which was go into the family business of IT/Software Development/Networking (my father has been a freelancer since the early 2000's and I used to work with him in high school and college). But while in China I realized I actually missed it and really enjoyed it, and I missed working with my father, but what I really didn't want was to work FOR my father. When I came back we discussed it and decided that I would work up to an equal partnership over the following 2-3 years as long as we could expand the customer base. So we've been running a small family business together ever since (my mom does the books and my sister works with us occasionally as well, but she's 10 years younger and in grad school for something unrelated).
I'm sorry if this came off as rambling as well, hopefully you can find something useful in here. The only other thing I would say is that in your 20's if you don't know what you want you feel like you have to do something fast and get your life together because you're so far behind. But later in life it wont matter if it took you 4 or 7 years to graduate, or if you took a year or two off. When I'm 20 years into my 40 year career I won't be saying "Oh man I should be 23 years into a 43 year career!", it just doesn't really matter. That is to say you should always try to move on with your life and improve yourself and move forward, but the anxiety of things not happening fast enough or not figuring out what you want fast enough, in hindsight, turns out to have been overblown.
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Love this subject.
Being in your 20's and feeling directionless/clueless is about the healthiest thing possible. It's generally the people who never get challenged in their twenties and walk the path they think society asks of them, these people end up with a job/house/wife/kids and end up thinking "is this it?"
Big changes in your life are only risky when you have no clue whether it will make you happy. Keep this in mind! The question here of course is: How to know if something will make you happy?
In my experience this largely comes down to finding your basic needs as a person. I'm not talking Maslov Pyramid needs such as food or social acceptance, but rather the drivers behind the things you do. Something that comes to mind about your situation: Creating content online or editing videos is definitely a skill, but there is always an underlying personal need below this. Ask yourself the question, WHY do you like doing this? The answer to that question imo is very important and can definitely help you forward.
Sounds a bit floaty haha, but I can be more specific and share an example from my own life. I've always written and produced music and thought for a long time i'd have no choice but to pursue a career in music. Eventually I figured out that making music comes from my (apparant) need to create things in general, and not necessarily music. I found out why I got myself into huge music productions because I simply love to "climb mountains" and work on complex projects. These answers made me realize I could definitely channel these needs and skills into a different direction without deviating from this. 6 years later, I work as a buyer for a large company where I still can fulfill the same needs. I approach this job with the exact same mindset as I approached my music, therefore this change never felt like a big change at all. I still create things, I always come up with new ideas, I challenge myself to do big projects internally and solve problems from a creative angle. And yes, I still make a lot of music and never enjoyed it more than I do now.
Discovering your needs as a person often happens in your twenties and takes time. Some people are born knowning what this is, and some people take years and yeare before they'll find it. Finding direction, fulfillment and being happy shouldn't be about income, nor about a house or a relationship, these aspects are all the result of people who know exactly why they do what they do, and love doing it for that reason.
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The OP kinda resonated with me Dusky, can remember experiencing similar things. Like seanjohn I'm an '86 model, so 35 this year.
None of these will have any structure or sequence, just a dumping ground of a few thoughts;
-There's not many choices/risks that can't be undone. Ignore the sunk cost and you can always move on to something new, nothing wrong with trying something for a few months/years and then deciding that you want to go back to something earlier. There's always an Opportunity Cost, even 'not making a choice' is still making a choice to maintain the status quo
If there's a way that you can try a small version of your risk then why not try it out for a bit - instead of moving across the country go and stay with a friend/AirBnB for a couple of week, instead of signing up $$$ for uni then try learning some of the basics online... etc.
-The best professional choice I ever made was dropping out of uni. I was 2.5 years in to a 3 year degree, and I still gave it away (tbf it did take me 5 years to complete 2.5 years of uni :v). I got a job in a call center and have used that as an entry point to a corporate career that I find pretty interesting and enjoyable
Parents didn't like it at the time, but I'm far more successful and interested than I would have been if I followed that degree, and that's all just from by chance getting restructured in to HR and being better at digital/computers than pretty much anyone in there
-If you're thinking about risk in a professional/income sense then the worst thing you can do is wait too long hoping to get struck by lighting. Someone of your generation will probably end up having dozens of 'careers' in the end. I still work for that company that I got a call centre job with 10 years ago, but I'm on to about my 4th career with them (1. Call centre, operations manager, 2. Learning/Training facilitator/designer, 3. Content/Comms, 4. Product owner/BA).
-Not everything you do will work out, and just getting older doesn't automatically increase your hit rate - you'll still fail sometimes. For example I never expected my marriage to end last year.
-You've got some useful skills, my standard career advice to a lot of people has been 2 things - don't just aim to replace your boss as a promotion (not super relevant here) and find what makes you unique and amplify it. Goose made a pretty good outline about some of the things that you do, and you might not feel it but that particular combination would be pretty desirable to a lot of people