The Elite Forum
The Big Three Plus One => GoldenEye 007 => Topic started by: SiFi on July 12, 2021, 07:33:17 am
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viewed the current WR facility runs.
On all WR runs Bond pauses for a couple seconds between blowing the bottles, and running for the doors. And I don't know what is up with this pause?
can Bond not run to the doors without pausing while the objective completes? What does pausing achieve?
if it is a strat what does it do beyond burning one or two seconds?
thanks, apologies if this is a rookie question
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You are waiting for objective B to complete
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Am I the only one seeing a distinct gap between the objective completing, and the approach of the doors? Why not run while the objective is completing?
surely it would save time to:
- continue full speed to the doors as the bottles are blown
- open the doors
- wait if necessary
- exit the level sooner
I will never have the ability to finish runs within the top 200, but I can see this is clearly a potential time saver.
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You need to pause for the decoder on SA/00 and it takes a moment to open the door to the bottling room. I'm not sure what you're referring to in regards to pausing inside of the bottling room. Perhaps you're seeing the watch come up for the detonator after they've run out of mines and are confusing it with a pause. Or perhaps you mean pause as in stop moving, rather than pause with the red button.
You do need to wait a fixed amount of time for Trev's objective to complete, so sandbagging is necessary.
I would also highly recommend joining the Discord server for Q's like these as you will get an answer much more quickly without flooding the boards.
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Am I the only one seeing a distinct gap between the objective completing, and the approach of the doors? Why not run while the objective is completing?
surely it would save time to:
- continue full speed to the doors as the bottles are blown
- open the doors
- wait if necessary
- exit the level sooner
I will never have the ability to finish runs within the top 200, but I can see this is clearly a potential time saver.
Usually you're seeing the obj for destroying the bottles complete on screen. The goal is already to make the Trev obj complete in the fade out. It really can't be done any faster than it already is.
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hah yes i mean pause as in stop moving, sorry that was unclear! yes i meant pause as in stop moving
oh ok yes i see if objective C is happening in the fade out
thanks man
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oh ok yes i see if objective C is happening in the fade out
It's about waiting for objective B (Rendezvous with 006), which is the bottleneck on a proper speedrun.
It's not about waiting for objective C (destroy all tanks in bottling room), which is not the bottleneck. It is easily completed while waiting for B to complete.
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So what im hearing from Shiva is that Objective C completes during the fade out - as this is already a slight gamble, going through the doors any sooner may not permit for objective C to complete. And thus, exiting the level a second (or half-second) sooner may fail the mission.
HOWEVER on the Agent WR run, there is a clear 1 second gap between Objective C completing, and Bond's exit through the steel doors. The gap is undeniable (objective C complete at 0:46, the doors are still closed at 0:47, Bond opens the doors and exits a split-second before 0:48). The problem is whether or not Objective B (Rendevouz with 006) would complete if you exit a second sooner. It could.
Im seeing a 1 to 1.5 second gap to be exploited by someone much more skilled than me.
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Just complete the level :v :v :v
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Just complete the level :v :v :v
excellent strategy, i never thought of that :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:
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The problem is whether or not Objective B (Rendevouz with 006) would complete if you exit a second sooner. It could.
Im seeing a 1 to 1.5 second gap to be exploited by someone much more skilled than me.
No - B completes a set amount of time after Trev sees you.
Considering the WR has a TNS, it literally could not have cut it any tighter.
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No - B completes a set amount of time after Trev sees you.
Considering the WR has a TNS, it literally could not have cut it any tighter.
got it. Thanks Sgt Rage, your avatar thing is cool.
I still wonder if exiting that second or half-second sooner could work.
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Asking questions is fine but please don't suggest we don't sandbag for a good reason. Same thing people ask on cradle at the trev kill. Obviously if we could just go faster we would lol
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Asking questions is fine but please don't suggest we don't sandbag for a good reason
that's why I put this, and if I could have apologised faster, i would :grinning:
apologies if this is a rookie question
I still wonder if exiting that second or half-second sooner could work.
...and I shall continue to wonder about this in the least suggestive way possible :tux:
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Wonder no longer, Ace's 42 (https://rankings.the-elite.net/~Perfect+Ace/time/191092) literally leaves on the earliest frame that he can - that's why he gets the Time Not Saved glitch
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Yeah, it seems that you're misunderstanding how the ending works.
Hundreds of runs have died to exiting early because we are already trying to time it as tight as it can possibly be. Trev will never ever complete any faster than he does on the current records.
The final objective completes AFTER you've already exitted the level and it is fading to black. The objective seen on screen is completely irrelevant to the timing at which you can exit the level. You are standing still to wait for a specific segment of Trev's dialogue which is how you time the exit, and you stand farther back because it's just easier to time it that way.
The unfortunate reality is that in order to discover even micro-timesaves at this point requires some deep, mystical and esoteric knowledge of the game.
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I think you're also getting confused because the ending is different depending on if you have a good or bad trev, so you might see people do the ending differently and get mixed up.
I'll try and give a play-by-play on what's happening at the end:
- With a good trev, he is walking away from the bottles, and sees you immediately upon getting off the stairs, starting the timer for Objective B.
- Since trev is already clear of the tanks, we can detonate the mines to complete the bottle objective immediately after placing them
- We then need to wait for the Objective B timer to run out: we do this by standing at a certain tile and waiting for a certain point in trev's dialogue
- ^ This allows us to time the leave as tightly and consistently as possible, since the Objective B timer is always consistent.
- With a bad trev, he is walking into the bottles, and doesn't see you until you walk through the bottles into his line of site, starting the timer for Objective B ~1s later than a good trev
- Since trev isn't clear of the bottles yet, we can't detonate the mines until he walks out
- This means that our bottleneck is trev getting clear of the bottles, where with a good trev, the bottleneck is the Objective B timer
- Keeping this in mind, most of us open the exit doors and wait by them, since we no longer need a cue to time our leave, we just look to see when trev is clear of the bottles, detonate, and leave.
Are there runs where people could've left earlier? Sure, but probably more on the order of .1 or .2 seconds, because humans aren't perfect.
The nice thing is that we know Ace timed his leave literally perfectly in his 0:42, since the time not saving to his cartridge means that Objective B completed in the final possible frame in the fadeout.
So yes, every fac run that isn't a TNS could technically be slightly faster, but unless you have a better way of timing....
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now those are some comprehensive responses! i like it :o
okay well i'll admit, my capacity to continue wondering about this has taken a dent.
RageQ, im just curious, what is this 'certain tile' thing all about?
we do this by standing at a certain tile and waiting for a certain point in trev's dialogue
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It's just to time objective B correctly. If you stand at a certain place, using the tiles as reference you can leave after trevs last message comes up. The problem is that trev's message can actually vary by a few frames, it isn't actually perfectly tied to the actual timer for B completing. So really that's to say there's no perfect way to time it lol just can go by feel. If it "feels" like the message comes up a little late at the end we may leave a little bit earlier but most people don't even think about that or even know it can vary haha they just time it the same every run and hope for the best.
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Hello SiFi,
Welcome to the community and I'm glad you are using the forum so enthusiastically, it really is a great medium to communicate and enjoy niche communities.
You seem to have a lot of questions about GoldenEye 007 Speedrunning, and very simple ones at that. My recommendation is that you watch various episodes of the "GoldenEye 007 SpeedLore" series.
You can find the whole series and related playlists here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVZzJEtr86OZXzdaBBKShtw
The episodes are 1-2 hours long, but they give a great overview of the levels, from beginner, to the WR strategies of today. In particular, these episodes may be of interest to you as they pertain to this thread:
Facility Agent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-iBK0ocmAs
Facility Secret Agent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNANonLxfWs
Facility 00 Agent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxYXvxmlGWk (recorded in 2017, somewhat outdated)
I think a lot of questions you have about the game would be answered if you simply watch the related episode of GoldenEye SpeedLore.
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thank you for your welcome Goose! I'm a fan of your channel. Watching your Facility 00 episode helped me finally beat 2:05.
Posting messages here is both convenient and fun (in the sense there is interaction with others members). For me this is the purpose of, and what i like about, forums.
Is there a video in particular that addresses the post bottle-blow sandbagging? will def check it out
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Posting messages here is both convenient and fun (in the sense there is interaction with others members). For me this is the purpose of, and what i like about, forums.
Discord is better suited for this purpose these days.
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why is posting on this message board met with so any suggestions not to post on this message board? what other reason is there for a message board to exist?
this is an unusual passive hazing ritual if i ever saw one.
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why is posting on this message board met with so any suggestions not to post on this message board? what other reason is there for a message board to exist?
this is an unusual passive hazing ritual if i ever saw one.
Lmao. It's met with a suggestion that if you enjoy corresponding with the community, you join the hub in which 99% of active community members are chatting every day.
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i get ya Shiv. i tried the Discord thing it didn't work. dont care enough to pursue. i like the board style anways
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Got to agree with SIFI here. A while ago I tried Discord based on the community's advice and felt completely lost. None of the conversation was pertaining to GE and those present, clearly knowing each other and the platform, spoke in memes and in jokes that I didn't understand.
I prefer the forum because it encourages lengthier more thoughtful replies and I can take the time to compose something like this without the conversation having moved on by the time I'm done.
Discord reminded me of MSN Messenger.. and now I feel old.
All the best to everyone
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Got to agree with SIFI here. A while ago I tried Discord based on the community's advice and felt completely lost. None of the conversation was pertaining to GE and those present, clearly knowing each other and the platform, spoke in memes and in jokes that I didn't understand.
I prefer the forum because it encourages lengthier more thoughtful replies and I can take the time to compose something like this without the conversation having moved on by the time I'm done.
Agreed. I've never used Discord, mostly for these exact reasons.
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what crazy zoomer shitposting is going on in the discord now?
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what crazy zoomer shitposting is going on in the discord now?
SIFI joined discord and didnt say anything even though people were welcoming him and I told him I could help him with his facility question.
IDPTheory was around discord in 2018 on discord when things were different. He hasnt posted since except one time in 2019 when he asked where to find the K4 video, he had his question answered.
Jack Newman has never been in the discord.
Discord is pretty chill
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Got to agree with SIFI here. A while ago I tried Discord based on the community's advice and felt completely lost. None of the conversation was pertaining to GE and those present, clearly knowing each other and the platform, spoke in memes and in jokes that I didn't understand.
My initial view of Discord was probably similar; mainly an unfamiliar platform to me, and knowing not a person there from Adam, which can be a little off-putting in a more 'instant messenger' type environment.
However, when I have asked questions (which tended to be of the 'probably asked 100 times' nature), the responses have been very fast, insightful and friendly.
As such, I'll use both forums and discord, but pick and choose what type of queries go where.
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If you join a Discord server (or forum) centered around a niche hobby and don't partake in said niche hobby, you're naturally going to find it harder to get involved and make connections. Those who are into speedrunning the games whether they're brand new or a seasoned veteran generally get along just fine.
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Thank you for the replies. 2018 Yendis? Has it been that long? You say 'different'. Different how? Maybe I'll give it another shot.
Please understand I wasn't criticising the platform just saying the experience isn't totally accessible or comprehendable to new eyes.
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Also Yendis? Pretty scary how you know all that!
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Thank you for the replies. 2018 Yendis? Has it been that long? You say 'different'. Different how? Maybe I'll give it another shot.
Please understand I wasn't criticising the platform just saying the experience isn't totally accessible or comprehendable to new eyes.
Yeah there was a large shift how the discord functioned late 2018. There is a better structure on the discord now because our goal is to have it be the default platform for new players to get into the game and community. Discord has also improved considerably as a program the last couple of years allowing you to collapse categories which you aren't interested in etc.
Also Yendis? Pretty scary how you know all that!
The discord search function is pretty good :kappa:
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If you join a Discord server (or forum) centered around a niche hobby and don't partake in said niche hobby, you're naturally going to find it harder to get involved and make connections. Those who are into speedrunning the games whether they're brand new or a seasoned veteran generally get along just fine.
Wise words Icy but I've been on the rankings since 2017 I think and I'm currently 215th in time I think? (Yendis probably knows 😉😁)
I've watched and read a lot of material regarding speedrunning GE as well as kept myself up to date on happenings on here and from time to time offering my own little strat ideas so I would say in terms of knowing the game I'm there or there abouts however, not being a particularly social guy anyway I've found it tricky to get to know other people here beyond their username or style of content. Maybe Discord is just not for me but I will give it another shot sometime because I'd certainly like to feel more a part of the discussion.
With that in mind and better late than never, let me introduce myself.. My name is Ian. I Iive in Kent, England and I'm 37 years old. Any other UK Eliters here? I only know of Ogran, Luke and Ace but there must be more?
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Thank you for the replies. 2018 Yendis? Has it been that long? You say 'different'. Different how? Maybe I'll give it another shot.
Please understand I wasn't criticising the platform just saying the experience isn't totally accessible or comprehendable to new eyes.
Yeah there was a large shift how the discord functioned late 2018. There is a better structure on the discord now because our goal is to have it be the default platform for new players to get into the game and community. Discord has also improved considerably as a program the last couple of years allowing you to collapse categories which you aren't interested in etc.
Also Yendis? Pretty scary how you know all that!
The discord search function is pretty good :kappa:
That's awesome Yendis. Next time I get the chance I'll redownload and join again and say hi
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With that in mind and better late than never, let me introduce myself.. My name is Ian. I Iive in Kent, England and I'm 37 years old. Any other UK Eliters here? I only know of Ogran, Luke and Ace but there must be more?
Breakneck and DynamixDJ are the two active UK players currently. There are a few more around, but afaik they're not actively playing anything.
https://rankings.the-elite.net/~Breakneck (https://rankings.the-elite.net/~Breakneck)
https://rankings.the-elite.net/~DynamixDJ (https://rankings.the-elite.net/~DynamixDJ)
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There are a few more around, but afaik they're not actively playing anything
:pimp:
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There are a few more around, but afaik they're not actively playing anything
:pimp:
Oh hey Whiteted, you're UK too? Where abouts? I often read your strat ideas with a combination of fascination and bewilderment. You're obviously something of a PC wizard, is that your vocation or is it just a hobby? I wish I had the technical knowledge to test the game like you do.
Anyway, I'm sure you just slipped his mind 😉
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GoldenEye especially isn't having groundbreaking strategies happen everyday. Conversations about the game get old, but once in a while can be fun to talk about when you have 2+ willing participants. That's my 2 cents on the matter. I've went on and on about GE related stuff before and no one bats an eye. But that's not even a complaint from me, it just is what it is, I'm glad people wanna talk about other things or meme it up tbh. I also haven't been in the elite discord since 2018, nice to hear some things have changed and I believe it because our community is in a much different spot than it was in 2018. I'll just stick to the branch off discords for now.
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I also haven't been in the elite discord since 2018, nice to hear some things have changed and I believe it because our community is in a much different spot than it was in 2018.
Didn't you come back for most of 2019 and then leave again after that?
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Haven't I taken like 1,000 dabs since then?
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I'll just stick to the branch off discords for now.
Mate where are the branch-off Discords for;
Elite Discord of Latter Day Saints
Old Calendar Eliters Discord
Seventh Day Eliters Discord
Elite Branch Covidians
Rainbow Family Gathering of Eliters Discord
Outer Heaven's Gate Discord
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Any other UK Eliters here? I only know of Ogran, Luke and Ace but there must be more?
I am, and I suspect there were a couple of others knocking around trying to predict results of the Euros (https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=24149.50 (https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=24149.50)).
Anyway, I'm Tom and I live out in cheese-rolling country.
I also have little to contribute in respect of the original thread question :D
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I don't use Discord as a matter of principle, mostly because I'm a weirdo who prefers outdated tech like forums :smirk: and email over modern instant messaging. Thinking about and composing a cohesive forum post is much more valuable to me than Discord chatting. I do understand that Discord provides a useful service to the community; and if it works for you, go for it, but the forums still serve a valuable role.
Besides, I'm not really a member of the community, and have no friends, so I don't really have a use for Discord :nesquik:
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I like the forum best.
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Any other UK Eliters here? I only know of Ogran, Luke and Ace but there must be more?
I am, and I suspect there were a couple of others knocking around trying to predict results of the Euros (https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=24149.50 (https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=24149.50)).
Anyway, I'm Tom and I live out in cheese-rolling country.
I also have little to contribute in respect of the original thread question :D
Hi Tom, nice to meet you. Cheese rolling country eh? Haha nothing like a nice bit of double Gloucester on a cracker 😁
I think the rest of the world think us Brits are a bit odd for chasing cheese down a hill so maybe keep the cheese chasing on the hush 😉.. Unless.. Well, it is kind of speedrunning and there ARE pieces of cheese hidden throughout PD so maybe it IS relevant 😂
Anyway, hope all is well out that way. Beautiful part of the country.
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SIFI joined discord and didnt say anything even though people were welcoming him and I told him I could help him with his facility question.
I have never successfully "joined" discord, i don't even know what the platform looks like.
If somehow what you say is true and I inadvertently joined in, I obviously didn't know how to navigate it (hence this 'not saying anything' you're describing). I have tried to "join" numerous times & it errors every time. If what you're saying is true, thanks for the offer to help!
It seems im not the only one who likes to use a message board in the way it has been designed to be used. who'd a thunk
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I don't use Discord as a matter of principle, mostly because I'm a weirdo who prefers outdated tech like forums :smirk: and email over modern instant messaging. Thinking about and composing a cohesive forum post is much more valuable to me than Discord chatting. I do understand that Discord provides a useful service to the community; and if it works for you, go for it, but the forums still serve a valuable role.
Besides, I'm not really a member of the community, and have no friends, so I don't really have a use for Discord :nesquik:
hey man you should use Discord
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I think the rest of the world think us Brits are a bit odd for chasing cheese down a hill so maybe keep the cheese chasing on the hush 😉
I'm sure there's plenty of other reasons without blaming our proudest traditions :grinning: That hill is scary just standing at the top of, let alone contemplating its descent. No wonder the result is about as elegant as my 'speedruns'.
Pleased to meet you, and may our paths cross again!