Author Topic: Control Style 2.3 (Domino) Discussion (Read 5158 times)

Boss · « **on:** August 20, 2006, 09:18:00 pm »

Should this control style be allowed (or any 2.x style) when trying for fast times? There has been some discussion about it recently since 2.3 can save time on Depot (shoot out screen in drone room during cinema + roller door open) and Caverns (beginning lift door can be opened in cinema). Discuss!

RWG · « **Reply #1 on:** August 20, 2006, 09:53:00 pm »

I think it should be allowed, here's why:

1) You are in no way altering the game, or cheating in anyway. You are just taking advantage of a glitch. The principle is no different than the statue or train strat.

2) The controllers you are using, are standard N64 controllers, and thus both are 100% legal according to the-elite's policy.

3) If "was this run legitimately done by one person?" ever is asked, think about this:

Anyone of us, and I mean anyone, could be two people. One person could be using the control stick + Z, and the other, A, B and Cs. This should not be a question ever now, since it was never before, and the circumstances aren't really all that different in my personal opinion.

4) Anyone who can actually learn and play with 2.3 deserves a WR or commendable disctinction, since it must be so damn hard.

Jimbo · « **Reply #2 on:** August 20, 2006, 10:10:00 pm »

If lookdown is allowed on the ranks, then so should 2.3 control style. This like Goose said is exploiting a glitch in the game and I wholeheartedly think that 2.3 players deserve some recognition by putting major time in for a record.

Also, to be the best player in GE solo, you gotta adapt to strats - 2.3 is just another strat.

RK · « **Reply #3 on:** August 20, 2006, 10:19:00 pm »

Yea, Goose is bascially right, IMO.

Matt-Cook1 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 20, 2006, 10:20:00 pm »

I think it should be allowed. It's a valid control style accessed within the game and only official nintendo 64 products are used: ones that aren't marketed for cheating purposes.

reTylersis · « **Reply #5 on:** August 20, 2006, 11:27:00 pm »

I used 2.3 for plenty of times.

wishiwasfamous · « **Reply #6 on:** August 21, 2006, 12:43:00 am »

Pro 2.3

flukey lukey · « **Reply #7 on:** August 21, 2006, 03:51:00 am »

2.3 should be legit. it wouldnt make sense if it wasnt.

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #8 on:** August 21, 2006, 05:50:00 am »

it is not solo play, since you need 2 controllers. it's an alternative so 2 people can play missions instead of 1. they were probably too lazy to code a total new coop feature THEN or they had too little time or so. the game is also glitchy in how it can save times using pbc while put in in the pause menu, so like, we're going to allow invincibility on aztec 00 then, it would save the time because the game doesn't mind it...

and like, let's kill people after they perform it. heck I still have to see the first one simply finishing a depot run. bunch of losers.

mrsooreams · « **Reply #9 on:** August 21, 2006, 05:59:00 am »

Is it a coincidence that the only person with Depot untieds is also the only person who objects to 2.3?

flukey lukey · « **Reply #10 on:** August 21, 2006, 06:29:00 am »

i see wouters argument, but simply - 2.3 is just another control style. If there is nothing wrong with playing 1.2 or 1.3, 2.3 is no different really. i would love to see others attempt times using it.

Matt-Cook1 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 21, 2006, 06:34:00 am »

Wouter, who are you to comment on the intentions of the game designers? Did they tell you personally it was for two people? It makes just as much sense that it was for the purpose of a "dual stick" config, similar to current consoles.

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #12 on:** August 21, 2006, 07:50:00 am »

as if you or anyone else is 'to comment on' if pbc were meant for legit play.

so how does it makes sense when like noone would be comfortable playing with 2 controllers? it makes as much sense as allowing pbcs.

mrsooreams · « **Reply #13 on:** August 21, 2006, 08:09:00 am »

You don't seriously think that push-button codes are comparable to using two analogue sticks, do you?

ShadowZero64 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 21, 2006, 08:27:00 am »

It should be allowed.

Wabs · « **Reply #15 on:** August 21, 2006, 08:31:00 am »

I'm 100% with Goose, he said what I think. It should be allowed in my opinion.

Djie · « **Reply #16 on:** August 21, 2006, 09:02:00 am »

Go 2.3!

Illu · « **Reply #17 on:** August 21, 2006, 09:15:00 am »

you @#%$ morons I tell you how it is!!! just @#%$ shut up now everyone and wait if someone gets 47 dport d00A and then the takeaes another trurn

'the wholkce @#%$ discussion have to turn then if you get it @#%$ and fauc then just when the WR its there then you'll see the truth right in front of you so PWNED!

Lovins · « **Reply #18 on:** August 21, 2006, 09:40:00 am »

I knew Wouter would disagree :lol

But I actually might agree with him. There is no way to prove it isn't being played by 2 ppl, as with a style that uses only one controller. Not to mention, helping to complete objectives before the run even starts?? But it is a legit controller style so I just dunno. I'm 100%... undecided...

ShadowZero64 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 21, 2006, 09:42:00 am »

There's no way to prove a single person's times has been achieved solely by that person either, so that argument is moot

ShadowZero64 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 21, 2006, 09:44:00 am »

Actually, this reminds me of the CC issue.

:lol

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #21 on:** August 21, 2006, 10:18:00 am »

they are comparable in the way I presented, that both make as much sense to be allowed. and besides, there's no reason why we'd have to use 'original' controllers then, since everyone can get a turbo one etc.

also, I'm going to point and laugh at all of you because you still won't get the depot records. they were overestimated anyway, as are 99% of the WRs.

Illu · « **Reply #22 on:** August 21, 2006, 11:53:00 am »

die 2:3!!!!!!!

*shoots 2:3 to death*

EDIT: wait was it 2.3 or 2:3... : or ., I think I... have to have a few more drinks brb

EDIT2: ohh my stomach! I need a break

EDIT3: I should never have bought this game.

wishiwasfamous · « **Reply #23 on:** August 21, 2006, 12:34:00 pm »

Yet we allow Defection 6, another obvious glitch? Or the Camspy g5 glitch which the programmers wanted us to find?

Sure, Wouter's depot records would be broken, but then he could get them again, even lower!

QoiZ · « **Reply #24 on:** August 21, 2006, 01:39:00 pm »

Defection can't be compared to G5, because G5 isn't a glitch and was meant to be used (since 1:40 otherwise is completely imposible,humanly anyway) whereas defection is a flat out glitch.

from what I see 2.3 is really advantaged to 2 players, which is kind of stupid if that's allowed because not everyone(hell, probably almost no one) would be able to have another person sit there for 10 hours helping getting a WR, either due to lack of time or skill.

If it's used for just 1 person though then I don't see a problem, other than it sounds impossibile to use 2 controllers whilst making a flawless run.

Illu · « **Reply #25 on:** August 21, 2006, 04:37:00 pm »

Illu goes nuts!

bcks · « **Reply #26 on:** August 21, 2006, 05:56:00 pm »

Quote

Quote:
Anyone of us, and I mean anyone, could be two people. One person could be using the control stick + Z, and the other, A, B and Cs. This should not be a question ever now, since it was never before, and the circumstances aren't really all that different in my personal opinion.

Quote

Quote:
There's no way to prove a single person's times has been achieved solely by that person either, so that argument is moot

I doubt that, surely somebody(s) would have raped depot by now, or got some other nice wr.
Also is that was true, i guess everyone sucks for not takeing advantage of the "new" strats invented and still useing a 2nd person to help there times.

Here's a question to ponder for everyone:

What's easyer to master 2.3 by yourself, or get a friend who is semi decent at ge, to help you set a few wr's?

Matis · « **Reply #27 on:** August 21, 2006, 06:38:00 pm »

that video was so touching illu i cried at the end.....

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #28 on:** August 21, 2006, 07:05:00 pm »

I don't care if they allow it any longer, since losers can't get WRs no matter how hard they try. so far I only see 1 person that's not a loser on depot..

CreepingDeath007 · « **Reply #29 on:** August 21, 2006, 07:27:00 pm »

I think we should allow it. I totally agree with what Goose said on the first page.

Also,
Depot SA - 0:45 (Failed) (2.4)
That's the best I've been able to do so far. 2.4 might be better than 2.3 if you CC the second controller.

Smit · « **Reply #30 on:** August 21, 2006, 08:10:00 pm »

Wow nice vid

Laercio-Rodolfo · « **Reply #31 on:** August 21, 2006, 10:08:00 pm »

I think 2.3 / 2.4 should not be allowed.

Well some people could play using this control style, get new times and make videos. We'll appreciate that.
However, the new records won't be added in the ranking, which is only for single player records, in my opinion.

---

Nice video Jimmy

Lark · « **Reply #32 on:** August 21, 2006, 11:56:00 pm »

Heh, this all reminds me of the Cruise Control issue that divided the elite.

But anway, I'm on the fence for this one. Though I'm leaning more with the pro 2.3 people. Like goose said, it really isn't violating any elite rules and is simply another control syle we should take advantage of.

I also agree with wouter since there is no way of proving if one or two people were playing if an insane WR is achieved.

So yeah, that's all I've got to say.

deletedprofile.u · « **Reply #33 on:** August 21, 2006, 11:58:00 pm »

2.3 is bad and you should feel bad.

wishiwasfamous · « **Reply #34 on:** August 22, 2006, 12:10:00 am »

Thanks for calling me a loser, Wouter. It hurts

matt8k · « **Reply #35 on:** August 22, 2006, 12:17:00 am »

Quote

Quote:
However, the new records won't be added in the ranking, which is only for single player records

Laercio does have a good point.

Infected Mind · « **Reply #36 on:** August 22, 2006, 02:24:00 am »

1 person can use both controllers.

Matt-Cook1 · « **Reply #37 on:** August 22, 2006, 03:04:00 am »

As someone said, it's very much like Cruise Control. If there's any consistency, the decision should go the same way as that case.

Grags · « **Reply #38 on:** August 22, 2006, 04:15:00 am »

I don't even understand why this is in discussion? If 2 people play using 2.3 and get a World Record then I say fair play to them! I mean, it would very very hard for 2 people to stay in sync enought to pull of a World Record. So I doubt that 2 people will ever get a World Record using 2.3 anyway.

And as for the glitch on Depot, if it wasn't allowed due to that, then there's a hell of a lot of false World Records on both games.

flukey lukey · « **Reply #39 on:** August 22, 2006, 04:40:00 am »

illu, that was some seriously wacked up @#%$...

i love the music at the end, what is this song please !

Funky-Buddha · « **Reply #40 on:** August 22, 2006, 05:34:00 am »

The difference between this glitch and every other glitch in either game, is that this one is done in the cutscene. I'm not sure about other people but I have a problem with sections of the level being completed before the level starts. Shooting out a screen and getting a door open, that would never otherwise get opened, while the timer isn't even going seems to defeat the purpose of trying to speed run a level to me.

Axel A · « **Reply #41 on:** August 22, 2006, 06:27:00 am »

Greg stole my words.

Using the control style is fine, but not exploiting that glitch imo.

mrsooreams · « **Reply #42 on:** August 22, 2006, 07:12:00 am »

So a glitch that allows you to fall through the entire level is okay, but a glitch that lets you shoot before you can move is banned? That would be bizarre.

Axel A · « **Reply #43 on:** August 22, 2006, 07:22:00 am »

Yes. And whats so bizarre about that?

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #44 on:** August 22, 2006, 07:51:00 am »

it's bizarre that he doesn't get the perfect point that has just been made.

Wyst3r · « **Reply #45 on:** August 22, 2006, 08:09:00 am »

What if 2 poeple Co-operate to get a wr. Who gets the credit?

Should it only be allowed to be played by a single person?

bcks · « **Reply #46 on:** August 22, 2006, 09:42:00 am »

Quote

Quote:
What if 2 poeple Co-operate to get a wr. Who gets the credit?

*Sarcasm on*

Everyone thinks its easyer to learn 2 controlers by yourself, then to get a friend over and learn some "hard" strat. Thus nobody will try with a friend, or admit to it, either or.

*Sarcasm off*

Lovins · « **Reply #47 on:** August 22, 2006, 10:31:00 am »

I haven't played perfect dark, but the defection glitch is DURING the level, correct? THAT'S the difference.

And the point that in solo play we cannot prove one of us is not "2 people", compared to in 2.3 play is not the same. Using 1 controller you don't need 2 people, nor would it even be benificial to use a second person. And everyone says you couldn't find another person to help you anyways? I could have my brother who is just as good an overall gamer as me easily help me with another controller. Doesn't gaming run in your families?

Grags · « **Reply #48 on:** August 22, 2006, 10:31:00 am »

Who's to say that some people didn't ask a mate to press A+B to detonate mines or open a door to save a fiddly moment to alow full control.

mrsooreams · « **Reply #49 on:** August 22, 2006, 10:34:00 am »

Co-op records should not be allowed on the main rankings, although I'm curious to see anyone actually pull of this depot strat. But that's no reason to disallow 2.3 in general. The argument that you can't prove that it WASN'T two people is completely flawed. You can't prove that a run wasn't done with some Action Replay code that slightly reduces enemy accuracy (remember Jim's "no damage" run on 00 Silo?), or that it wasn't done on a very convincing emulator. There's an infinite number of ways to cheat and, unless you're only going to count WRs that were achieved in a sealed room with thirty witnesses, you have to take something on trust.

Why make rules against one glitch but not another? We're happy to exploit lookdown, door warps, ladder warps and numerous other strats which, it's surely fair to presume, were never intended. Why is this one any different?

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Author Topic: Control Style 2.3 (Domino) Discussion (Read 5158 times)