Author Topic: Control Style 2.3 (Domino) Discussion (Read 5160 times)

Troublesome Moral Code · « **Reply #100 on:** August 24, 2006, 04:35:00 pm »

Matt got the G5 cheat without the cinema thing? :eek

Someone upload the vid!

Quiet Bol · « **Reply #101 on:** August 24, 2006, 05:15:00 pm »

"I don't think this glitch takes away from the majesty of the records at all. IMO the defection glitch is a lot more "lame" than this. And how would we know what newbs will think when they first see this site? They could just as well be impressed and think it's cool."

Well, just speaking from a personal standpoint...When i found The Elite and came across the newly discovered Defection glitch, it was one of those things that made me want to pick up the controller and try it for myself. The level still requires skill and practice and the glitch produces a jaw-dropping result.

Whereas the acceptance of 2.3 would actually discourage me from ever touching GE again, and my jaw is only dropping to say "ugh".

Then again, I don't consider myself a GE player and I'm not directly affected by these changes. If most of you decide FOR the change, far be it from me to try stopping you.

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #102 on:** August 24, 2006, 08:38:00 pm »

why are we even comparing to pd stuff, since it's a GE thing only as far as I know.

Michael, Matt did 1:59, maybe 1:58 or a little less. so if whoever that said the cheat time is 1:40 is correct, he did not get the cheat.

wishiwasfamous · « **Reply #103 on:** August 24, 2006, 09:55:00 pm »

Because we need comparison. We've used comparisons between the two before with previous glitches, why not now? To say we shouldn't allow comparisons is bogus, it's important to debates, which, last time I checked, this most certainly is.

Matt-Cook1 · « **Reply #104 on:** August 24, 2006, 11:15:00 pm »

The G5 thing that you guys are talking about is in my speed run - I got 1:59. On a proper run this could very close to 1:50, but not below the cheat time. If you managed to get a "cinema plays at the start" run (glitch) I reckon you could get as low as 1:46 if you could get the door below the catwalk opened...

Anyway, that's totally off topic:-D

edit: I think what is worth mentioning is that if there was no "camspy trick" then we would wait for the objective to complete in the cinema to get the best possible time. This happens in the cinema, like the 2.3 things... but I doubt there would be any objection to its use, even though it wasn't intended by programmers.

go go 2.3.

edit!!! If you haven't seen my Agent Speed Run then see it! I watched a bit just now and it's actually pretty cool. Watch! </shameless>

wishiwasfamous · « **Reply #105 on:** August 25, 2006, 02:13:00 am »

Heh, thanks for clearing that up, Matt

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #106 on:** August 25, 2006, 05:30:00 am »

go use 2.3 then. everyone is able to use it, everyone even KNOWS about it huge advantage in depot by now, still noone can even get a dumb PR with it. sounds like we're arguing for discussion's sake only.

vitor · « **Reply #107 on:** August 25, 2006, 07:28:00 am »

You might be underestimating that, Wouter. No one has put too much time into it. You never know. Kinda reminds me of your untouched B1 record. It looks a little touched now.

Anyway, someone (lazy to check) had a good point there. Doing stuff on cutscene just seems wrong. But then, you are allowed to get the objective completed while the animation is fading out. So it makes no sense.

Comparing to PBC is just stupid. Firstly, it's called a CHEAT. Secondly, if anyone ever uses PBCs to speedrun, we got two options: that person won't be noticed by anyone in the ranks, or he will be requested to require proof, thus being banned afterwards.

It's a very tough discussion. Both sides has good arguments, but if I had to take one, I'd say that it should be allowed. Looks more fair, and we'd see some new records.

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #108 on:** August 25, 2006, 08:08:00 am »

PBCs aren't cheats, they are debug codes.

Smit · « **Reply #109 on:** August 25, 2006, 11:38:00 am »

Pointless discussion, seriously..

It should be allowed, its no glitch, they programmed it in the game for a reason..

vitor · « **Reply #110 on:** August 25, 2006, 12:48:00 pm »

Quote

Quote:
PBCs aren't cheats, they are debug codes.

rite

Lovins · « **Reply #111 on:** August 25, 2006, 01:16:00 pm »

I still maintain that doing stuff during the cutscene and completing an objective while the screen fades out are completely different. The objective may not be literally completing "during the actual run" but you whatever needed to be done to complete the objective WAS done during the run (example, frigate, you free hostages DURING the run and maybe objective completes during fadeout).

Lark · « **Reply #112 on:** August 25, 2006, 01:44:00 pm »

^Very solid point.

Any gamer can push Z at the beginning of a cutscene to save time. There is no skill involved.

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #113 on:** August 25, 2006, 01:44:00 pm »

they don't know when the timer exactly starts and stops anyway

wishiwasfamous · « **Reply #114 on:** August 25, 2006, 02:08:00 pm »

Quote

Quote:
go use 2.3 then. everyone is able to use it, everyone even KNOWS about it huge advantage in depot by now, still noone can even get a dumb PR with it. sounds like we're arguing for discussion's sake only.

Then why are you still arguing?

It also looks like Wouter is giving the ok on 2.3. So go get those PRs, elite! I'm so glad we had to wait for his permission.

Matt-Cook1 · « **Reply #115 on:** August 25, 2006, 09:54:00 pm »

I'm hoping I have a chance to try tomorrow afternoon. I doubt i'll be able to WR, but i'll get used to the control style a bit.

Tom-the-Toad · « **Reply #116 on:** August 31, 2006, 09:57:00 am »

I think if you want to talk about the history and the credibility of the elite then I would argue that at almost every stage of the games which have spawn around the elite, GE, PD, TS, TWINE, MK64 et al, there has been two sets of rankings, shortcut/assisted and non shortcut.

Things like lookdown and cruise control strike me as similar to PRB on mkds and snaking as a whole. Abusing the game mechanics etc.

This is almost, a bit like the recent discussion on mk64 where its been worked out that if you leave the game on and the timer running for AGES (days) then you can get much quicker times due to the clock messing up.

Both are commonsensically stupid and out of character and spirit with the game.

However - whats to say others wont use it. Surely at the elite the frame of mind is to be the best. Have the best times etc - of course it is, thats why you guys have speedrunned and also got records with cheats etc.

So from my perspective - i'd argue you have to allow it otherwise you can't say you have the fastest times in the world (known).

*and, if anyone says "well why aren't you allowing the timer thing on mk64" - easy, we can prove it by looking at the timer in the run and its banned.

Matt-Cook1 · « **Reply #117 on:** September 02, 2006, 05:17:00 am »

...

Anyone who manages a WR with this crazy control style @#%$ deserves it.

The patience required to get used to it is immense. I gave up pretty damn quick.

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #118 on:** September 02, 2006, 11:44:00 am »

pwned

vitor · « **Reply #119 on:** September 02, 2006, 09:37:00 pm »

*points at WR topic*

Lark · « **Reply #120 on:** September 02, 2006, 09:37:00 pm »

I can't belive this conversation is still going on.

Alex got a WR with 2.3 we should let him keep it.

Matt-Cook1 · « **Reply #121 on:** September 02, 2006, 09:40:00 pm »

Well he does deserve it!

Your Eliteness · « **Reply #122 on:** September 02, 2006, 10:21:00 pm »

We have to make decisions here.

1.x control style, but player 1 lets player 2 play part of the level because player 2 is better. Allowed?
2.x control style, no cinema tricks, one person, two controllers. Allowed?
2.x control style... my God, there's tons of possible combinations here. @#%$ this.

I don't think any of this should be allowed, because it makes the WR appear twice on the rankings, and neither player got it entirely by themselves. But a WR is still a WR, and therefore should be listed. The cinema tricks are no worse than the Defection glitch.

I don't know whether it should be allowed or not.

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #123 on:** September 02, 2006, 11:19:00 pm »

I might aswell send my b1 00 108s around and let other people claim the runs as theirs.

vitor · « **Reply #124 on:** September 02, 2006, 11:54:00 pm »

Matt-Cook1 · « **Reply #125 on:** September 03, 2006, 12:19:00 am »

I tried some 2.3 (2 player) with my brother... It's @#%$ easy. There's nothing complicated about it once you both know the plan.

vitor · « **Reply #126 on:** September 03, 2006, 01:25:00 am »

Matt have a point. I guess it shouldn't be allowed, after that WR. If it was easier with one people playing it'd be a little more fair. But since it looks quite easy with one random people with you, it becomes totally gay.

It's nice to see you can do a WR with it, though.

Troublesome Moral Code · « **Reply #127 on:** September 03, 2006, 01:42:00 am »

I think (not 100% sure) that Alex is not going to claim the 43... Not sure but I think his reasons are the same as mine (he'll have to come here and clarify for himself

).

Neither of us are going to claim the 43.

My own reason for not claiming it is because it just doesn't feel as though I truly earned it for myself... I'll reveal my true intentions later though. ;p

Also I'm sticking to my own opinion on the whole 2.3 issue, again few people know what it is.

Infected Mind · « **Reply #128 on:** September 03, 2006, 02:05:00 am »

im not putting 43 on my times page.

i wanted some contriversy, but we just had to do 43 for the sake of it.

also because of how bad the 44 we got was :rollin

it was fun getting it though

wishiwasfamous · « **Reply #129 on:** September 03, 2006, 02:21:00 am »

Fine, then can I have it?

Wyst3r · « **Reply #130 on:** September 03, 2006, 04:39:00 am »

Rankings is gonna get really messy if we start allowing runs made by 2 players. I mean, 2 poeple gets a wr credit for 1 run? That's just stupid.

ShadowZero64 · « **Reply #131 on:** September 03, 2006, 07:23:00 am »

As I said earlier, two players getting a time together should not count in anyway on the normal rankings.

Illu · « **Reply #132 on:** September 03, 2006, 10:41:00 am »

I break up from 2.3.

EDIT:with*

EDIT2: yeah we broke up and it feels GOOOOOOOOD!

EDIT3: wait! I have to think of some stuff, ohh crap

EDIT4: so this makes sence really, why would two controllers need to be together, I have my controller with me, my controller is with me I don't want another controller in the game.

EDIT5: Sorry I'm sick today and I can't make sence in the normal way but I hope you got my point.

Infected Mind · « **Reply #133 on:** September 03, 2006, 12:08:00 pm »

Depot SA :43

As you all know me and mouser got this time yesterday, we wont be counting it for the rankings, but it was fun getting it.

All 2.3 runs shouldnt count for the rankings even if a single person succeeds with it, as it seems like to much of an abuse perhaps?

Your Eliteness · « **Reply #134 on:** September 03, 2006, 08:47:00 pm »

Yeah, I have to agree. You're welcome to play it leasurely though, and maybe even start a rivalry for it.

RWG · « **Reply #135 on:** September 03, 2006, 08:52:00 pm »

If one person pulls that off, it should count. can't see how you can argue that.

Quote

Quote:
I might aswell send my b1 00 108s around and let other people claim the runs as theirs.

In THAT case, there are 803 runway A 0:23s of mine availible if you want. :smokin

Your Eliteness · « **Reply #136 on:** September 03, 2006, 08:54:00 pm »

The problem with that is that we don't know if one person is pulling it off or not.

RWG · « **Reply #137 on:** September 03, 2006, 08:57:00 pm »

like I said before, we don't know if ANY of these 1.1 or 1.2 WRs are 1 person pulling it off

Infected Mind · « **Reply #138 on:** September 03, 2006, 08:58:00 pm »

i could tell the difference of 1 and 2 people playing

its noticable

wishiwasfamous · « **Reply #139 on:** September 03, 2006, 10:12:00 pm »

I've brought this up a while ago. If someone is trying to get a damn good time (90-100), they should cam the run, as well as tape it, i.e. we see them playing by themselves.

CreepingDeath007 · « **Reply #140 on:** September 04, 2006, 01:12:00 am »

I still agree with Goose and think that if 1 person does it then it should count.

I tried more of it today and now I have like 6+ legit 44 fails. But I still haven't failed 43 or even completed a run yet so I don't know if it's worth it for me to keep trying. $:\$

Your Eliteness · « **Reply #141 on:** September 04, 2006, 02:28:00 am »

Some cold, hard facts:

We don't know if you're using a 1.x control style or 2.x control style.
We don't know if two people are playing, or one person with two controllers.
We only know if it's 2.x if they do one of the cinema tricks.

Some cold, hard rules:

Don't do any of the 2.x cinema tricks.
No two people can claim the same time/video.

Matt-Cook1 · « **Reply #142 on:** September 04, 2006, 03:03:00 am »

Clearly a proof of the time would involve proving beyond reasonable doubt that you achieved the time by yourself. At the very least you would film yourself achieving the time, like rayan's war 26. There should be no suggestion that you are just faking while a recording plays.

I still believe solo 2.3 times should be allowed.

Funky-Buddha · « **Reply #143 on:** September 04, 2006, 03:07:00 am »

You're all losers.

Matt-Cook1 · « **Reply #144 on:** September 04, 2006, 03:16:00 am »

Come over this weekend and get 41 with me.

Funky-Buddha · « **Reply #145 on:** September 04, 2006, 03:19:00 am »

ShadowZero64 · « **Reply #146 on:** September 04, 2006, 06:53:00 am »

Some cold, hard fact:

We don't know if a player on the rankings got times achieved by several different persons.

Some cold, hard rule:

Close down the rankings.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Your Eliteness · « **Reply #147 on:** September 04, 2006, 07:06:00 am »

Cold, hard fact: SZ doesn't have any authority over what happens on the rankings.

Wyst3r · « **Reply #148 on:** September 04, 2006, 08:02:00 am »

The argument "We don't know if the times on the rankings were achieved by 2 players" is pretty dumb cause it doesn't gain anything to play 2 players with a 1.X setting.

Or, "We don't know if 1 player is actually 2 players(Habrich?)". That's a pretty diffrent situation though i don't think the risk of that happening is that big. And the 2.X discussion is about 2 players achieving a time together so it's not really relevant.

RWG · « **Reply #149 on:** September 04, 2006, 10:21:00 am »

lol Henrik, talk to a guy like Alex, Brandon or I, and if we had 1.2 with some guy using the C-buttons for us. Oh man. Seriously, it would really help us 1.1ers.

News:

Author Topic: Control Style 2.3 (Domino) Discussion (Read 5160 times)