Author Topic: GE Gets TAS'd (Perfected World Records) (Read 2121 times)

Ngamer · « **on:** June 19, 2006, 09:17:00 pm »

This topic was under discussion in New Videos, but is important enough to warrant its own topic.

The guys at TASvideos.org have recently begun an effort to create a "perfect" run through Goldeneye's 00 Agent difficulty. So far the only person to have completed any runs is Rising Tempest, but it sounds like Illu and perhaps some other Eliters will be getting in on the action soon.

.avi versions of all the best TAS runs can be found on thengamer, at

thengamer.com/GE/24-TAS/

If the video doesn't play for you, you need to download the codec being used. First try downloading and installing ffdshow: prdownloads.sourceforge.n...e?download If they still won't play in WMP, then download and install StormFront. www.softpedia.com/progDow...20053.html It will work if you use that player.

I know that we've traditionally had a low opinion of emulation, but I think this is a pretty cool opportunity. Tempest isn't aware of all the little tricks and tips we've developed on each run, but as he gains experience (or as Eliters step into the fray), it should be very interesting to see the absolute limit reached on these levels. Also keep in mind that on many games, such as Mario 64, attempts to perfect runs through emulation have resulted in the discovery of new tricks that helped push legitimate speed runs to the limit in turn. I'm sure the same will be true in GE, if Tempest and others keep at it.

I think the first thing we need to figure out is what emulator, with what ROM, using what settings makes it possible to try this out, even on a low-end computer.

EDIT - Shoot, RT posted as I was making this topic! To help carry over the discussion, he said

Hey, it's my video.

Well, I am open to suggestions. Your harsh comments are right,,, all three levels could be better,,, but since this is my first time TAS-ing this game, I really want to speed ahead to my more favorite levels (Bunkers, Frigate, Train). I have already decided to do a second runthrough of the game, that way this time I can be semi-half assed and get suggestions from all the guys here and at tasvideos,,, so that my second one wont suck.

I have finished the surface at this time, and I honestly think it's the best one I've done though it doesn't beat the WR like the other three (it only ties it). Reason for this is,,, that I took my time to get the best lines possible, except one small portion after the plans hut to avoid a backboost. The reason it is only 1:50 is because I only got 1 useful boost the whole level, and a sideboost that didn't really do much. When I do this level again, I will take my time to get more boosts from guards, and on longer parts where this isn't possible, I think I will try to shoot grenades straight into the air, so that they land behind me as I strafe by.

I was also suggested to try shooting the KF7 near the beginning of the Dam to get guards to open the mainframe room for me,,, this would save one or two seconds. And to try to get Trev to be at the bottom of the stairs....

I like all the feedback, both negative and positive, I have been getting on this so far. And the help you guys have given me in my topic here,,, Facility and Runway would not be as fast as they were otherwise. I'm really enjoying making this run, I hope you guys continue to offer me tips and such.

EDIT - Oh, and we're heading in that direction already, but, this is now officially the topic to post new TAS "WR"s in!

RWG · « **Reply #1 on:** June 19, 2006, 09:39:00 pm »

Jack RT (or w/e you like to be called.)

A strat you might want to consider for Surface 1 would be to have a guard on your line pull a grenade in front of you, and kill him to get it. This way you could skip getting the grenade launcher and use the grenade to blow the locks at the end. This would save about 2 seconds on the run. This has always been in speculation but is too rare to be used commonly in runs. I'm sure TAS might help

Oh jack, if you use AIM, let us know your SN. There are many of us who like to talk strats and things; especially the ones (almost) only TAS possible.

wishiwasfamous · « **Reply #2 on:** June 19, 2006, 09:45:00 pm »

Project 64 for the emu

Troublesome Moral Code · « **Reply #3 on:** June 19, 2006, 10:27:00 pm »

Bit of advice for Frigate, all difficulties.

Okay, the thing about the hostages is that they DO NOT start moving UNTIL THEIR CAPTORS HAVE FADED AWAY. Meaning that you want to have the captors die using the fastest death animation possible.
The animation I'm talking about is the one where he drops everything, jumps into the air, spins 360 degrees around so that he lands on his back, and disappears from there.

What I'm thinking is that you would have a LOT of save states, preferably two for every captor you come across (On Agent there's two, SA four, 00A Six). One for right before you make the kill (so that you get the optimal death animation every time) and one for right after you make the kill (so that the hostage he releases will escape in time). The second one is the one you'll be coming back to if you don't have some fast hostages.

Now of course the closer you get to the end the less time you're going to have, so for the last 3 hostages on 00 Agent I suggest taking full advantage of what I've just said to you. I hope this message finds you well, good luck dude! I look forward to seeing more stuff (Especially Bunker 1, Statue and Archives!).

RK · « **Reply #4 on:** June 19, 2006, 10:31:00 pm »

I really like this idea, the vids are cool, and fun to watch. Good luck RT.

Enough said...I guess?

Troublesome Moral Code · « **Reply #5 on:** June 19, 2006, 10:33:00 pm »

Also, RT, keep in mind that for every level there is someone on the boards who is an absolute @#%$ dictionary about it.

Just ask and someone might come to your rescue!

GoldenGreg007 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 19, 2006, 10:52:00 pm »

always calling me a pirate for promoting TASes, look at you now Bearder.

edit: oh man all those headshots.. good stuff. i like the grenade strat on runway.

Infected Mind · « **Reply #7 on:** June 19, 2006, 11:59:00 pm »

get 25 depot a

wishiwasfamous · « **Reply #8 on:** June 20, 2006, 12:38:00 am »

wait for that boost, eh?

bcks · « **Reply #9 on:** June 20, 2006, 01:01:00 am »

Runway 00, didn't he use a slower line to the drones?

Facility wheres the cinema dude?(i could see 52 with good trev, useing mines to boost, computer door looked like a stuck, plus straf changes for no reason, also getting boosts through doors helps too!)

RWG · « **Reply #10 on:** June 20, 2006, 01:07:00 am »

I do think it's good that us guys who have been mastering these strats for years are consulted now only after 3 TAS runs instead of after all 20...

Lovins · « **Reply #11 on:** June 20, 2006, 12:10:00 pm »

I DLed both codecs and the vids still don't work, how gay\

EDIT - never mind I got it :rolleyes

Lovins · « **Reply #12 on:** June 20, 2006, 12:30:00 pm »

Stupid question...I have never heard of this TAS. What is it/ how does it work? Is it just someone doing a regular run w/certain advantages? Is there auto aim to the head, and things like cameras or something, and the computer for the covert modem throw? Those runs were incredible to watch... who would've thought that b2 00 was at least 14 SECONDS from maxed?

Illu · « **Reply #13 on:** June 20, 2006, 01:54:00 pm »

Well they're done on the computer with an emulator using slow-motion and save states, so you can save anytime and continue from that spot if you mess up.

Ngamer · « **Reply #14 on:** June 20, 2006, 03:20:00 pm »

From our speedrunwiki:

A Tool-Assisted Speedrun or TAS, also known as an emulated run or time attack, is a speed run created using emulators to optimise every last frame. They therefore invariably contain feats that are humanly impossible.

Constructing a TAS is more like animating a movie than playing a videogame, and requires much, much more patience than actual videogaming skill. Both TASs and real-time speed runs require concentration, dedication, planning, and far too much free time, but TASs are not listed on this wiki, and you can think of this as the videogaming equivalent of banning steroids. This wiki is about real play.

And I bet you've seen a TAS before, Lover, you just didn't know it. Remember this video?

video.google.com/videopla...1777845283

All the runs currently being TASed can be found at tasvideos.org/ , which is more or less the "SDA" of TASes.

SpiderWaffle · « **Reply #15 on:** June 20, 2006, 10:24:00 pm »

ya, I don't know why he went around the planter box to the right on runway. I agree there should have been one more remote mine boost. Seemed like the lines were off on dam, espically at the beginning, why'd he shoot all those guards, it messed up the line I thought.

Infected Mind · « **Reply #16 on:** June 20, 2006, 10:43:00 pm »

^agree with sw

Wyst3r · « **Reply #17 on:** June 21, 2006, 04:05:00 am »

Yeah sure, TAS is made for entertainment mostly but many of the stuff he did was totally unnecessary.

Btw, are we sure it isn't faster to go up in the second tower on the way back from the mainframes? I mean, on a TAS you don't have to worry about missing the last alarm.

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #18 on:** June 21, 2006, 08:15:00 am »

or get the insane rare grenade and take out the last alarm from far away.

mrsooreams · « **Reply #19 on:** June 21, 2006, 08:52:00 am »

I thought explosives couldn't destroy alarms through closed doors?

Matt-Cook1 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 21, 2006, 09:06:00 am »

They can

Adam-Bozon · « **Reply #21 on:** June 21, 2006, 12:03:00 pm »

Hi everyone

I read this topic yesterday about using emulators to try and get perfected world records. I have done some computer programming and one thing that I have experience of is writing robotic players for games. By playing on an PC emulator I would be able to make robot players for some GoldenEye levels that could play better than any human player could.

To make a robot player you have to write a program that tells the computer when and how long to press buttons for. All the user has to do is click a start button and then the robot would automatically play the level while you just sit and watch. If the robot was programmed well enough, it would be able to take the best possible routes through levels, take corners perfectly, open doors as soon as possible and shoot anything like locks, alarms or guards perfectly every time.

The only problem is that if you get hit or a guard gets in the way then the robot player will get knocked off course and you'll almost certainly need to restart so it will only work on some levels. It should work on Dam (AG + SA), Runway (AG), Surface 1 (AG), Surface 2 (AG), Streets (AG) and Depot (AG). There are about another 10-15 levels that might be possible to play with a robot player.

If I could get the emulator running well enough then I would be willing to make some robot players, it doesn't take too long once you know how to do it. I've watched Miikka's TAS Aztec video, does anyone know which emulator he used? I tried the Project 64 emulator but it wouldn't run anywhere near as well as his does.

Adam

My GoldenEye Times

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #22 on:** June 21, 2006, 12:45:00 pm »

Wow, sounds like great news! You'd be a huge addition to this all.

go to tasvideos.org, on the forum there's somewhere a topic where you can get the latest version of Mupen64, the emulator. If you'd like, get aim (preferably) and tell us your SN so we can talk and I'd like to learn to program these, shouldn't be too hard for me (I know c++, delphi, java, php, xml perhaps others I forgot)

Jack · « **Reply #23 on:** June 21, 2006, 03:49:00 pm »

I have bunker done now, check the topic at tasvideos.org if you can't wait for NFQ to make an avi of it.

The final time was 1:05, It could probably be improved to 1:04 with the route I took if I did eveything perfectly and got another boost on the escape. If anyone knows how to speed up Boris's mainframe-ings, that could lower the time more as well.

Wouter, do you know which guards can pull grenades on Dam? I like the idea of using a grenade for the furthest alarm, this and the KF7 trick might lower the time into high 1:40's. I have played the level pretty extensively, it's one of my favorites, and I have never had guards pull grenades on me.

Also, could someone explain the trick to throw grenades and things further? Someone mentioned there was one while discussing my runway, but I'm not sure how it's done. If this is explained to me, it will help save time on levels where I have to throw things.

And to the guy who suggested programming a robot, don't bother. The incredible amount of factors in this game that influence randomness will keep you programming it for decades before it is capable of playing as well as you suggested.

Lastly, I went and got AIM, since everybody here seems to prefer it. I will try to stop by the elite chatroom every now and then,,, to discuss strategies and so forth. My AIM name is JackOfWailing.

Illu · « **Reply #24 on:** June 21, 2006, 04:27:00 pm »

Guards never pull nades on Dam.

Lovins · « **Reply #25 on:** June 21, 2006, 04:44:00 pm »

*agrees with Illu*

and I don't think u can blow that alarm up from outside anyways, I remember in the past trying with a rocket launcher, shooting one at the exact spot on the outside wall and it didn't blow up

RWG · « **Reply #26 on:** June 21, 2006, 05:29:00 pm »

Jimbo claims a nade on Dam 00...

mind you, Jimbo also claims a Caverns SA 1:23...

Just shittin with ya man :smokin

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #27 on:** June 21, 2006, 10:08:00 pm »

Hey, don't diss programmers. let him try, we can use all the help we get.

as for the grenade, I'm only trusting Jim on that. I've never seen it happen, so you'd have to find out from what he says.. assuming his ass is still in place (thus he didn't laugh it off from being such a joker). You could always try some out of the way guards though, as long as you still save time in the end. I think the best bet would be mr suit near first alarm.

Jimbo · « **Reply #28 on:** June 22, 2006, 12:47:00 am »

The guard on Dam 00A (this was like 2003 also) was the Russian Commandant, after waiting about an hour.

The only level I've *never* seen a Grenade on is Bunker 2, I still think Train has Grenades too, but that's not confirmed >_<

SpiderWaffle · « **Reply #29 on:** June 22, 2006, 01:36:00 am »

Derek told me he once got a nade from a tunnel guard, and I've heard you can blow up that alarm by placing the explosion on the door.

Bunker should implement the boris running strat, I believe it saved about 1.5s if boris runs to the mainframe, I only have a sample size of one though so you might be able to save more.

Surface 2 I think would be the best level to TAS, no luck other than the grenade, then just crazy shots you can do, camera 1 very far back in full strafe turn, camera 2 through the hut, camera 3 possibly through trees, camera 4 through the window in strafe.

Anyone have that surface map henrick made? Some people should try shooting through the trees to get the 3rd camera with 2x rpc90, I tried for about an hour before but from the map I could see wasn't shooting at the right place.

Infected Mind · « **Reply #30 on:** June 22, 2006, 01:50:00 am »

i think all bullets shot thru trees dissapear, so its impossible to shoot out the 3rd cam like that

bcks · « **Reply #31 on:** June 22, 2006, 04:18:00 am »

It works, for the last alarm you need the explosion to happen on the door, thats the only way you will get it.
I have 1:47 dam 00 cheats video online, with shoting a rocket from the drop off part. It sucks too, 139 should be possible.

For S2 the fastest strats might be getting at least 3 grenades, if not more. Gun shots could be quicker for the 1st and 2nd cameras, or an entire new strat could be used for the 1st camera, with useing a nade on it last.

SpiderWaffle · « **Reply #32 on:** June 22, 2006, 02:13:00 pm »

try heading towards the 3rd camera, go around the tree corner then face the 2nd camera through the trees. Now if I remember right you should be able to see and shoot those exploding barrels and guards too through the trees.

Adam-Bozon · « **Reply #33 on:** June 22, 2006, 06:28:00 pm »

Hi,

I mentioned yesterday about making robot players for getting perfected WR's. I've now had a go at making a robot player. I've tried 6 different emulators but none will run smoothly enough to make a usable robot player. The problems are that if you tell it to run forward for 3 seconds, sometimes it will run further than on other goes and if you tell it to turn left for 0.5 seconds, it turns further on some goes than others so its nearly impossible to even complete a level. Therefore, I won't be able to get any perfected WR's like this unless there is ever an emulator that runs absolutely perfectly.

I have written one for Runway Agent but that only takes very simple routes and was mainly just a practise where I was only aiming to complete the level, rather than getting a fast time so it completes in 32-33 seconds on the very rare occasion that it does manage to finish the level. I can make a video if you want but its nothing special to watch.

Thanks for the offer of help Wouter, I'm sure you could have made some good ones. I did the robot player mentioned above in Java if you were wondering.

Adam

Illu · « **Reply #34 on:** June 23, 2006, 04:30:00 pm »

I think I've posted alot today now and enough but wanted to let you just know that a robot I'm not.

Troublesome Moral Code · « **Reply #35 on:** June 23, 2006, 05:29:00 pm »

Hay guys, what emulator version and video plugin are you using exactly? TASVideos.org seems to be down at the moment and Google's archive isn't telling me anything.

Illu · « **Reply #36 on:** June 24, 2006, 05:02:00 pm »

it's here, click

Jack · « **Reply #37 on:** June 29, 2006, 10:50:00 pm »

Silo is done, check the tasvideos topic for the .m64 file.

bcks · « **Reply #38 on:** June 30, 2006, 05:05:00 am »

Link!

Jack · « **Reply #39 on:** June 30, 2006, 03:17:00 pm »

Thread on TASvideos -> tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2979

The link to the silo vid is on the very last page.

Jack · « **Reply #40 on:** July 12, 2006, 02:25:00 pm »

Here is the second version of the Dam: dehacked.2y.net/microstor...9/Damn.m64

(Right click, save as)

You'll need Mupen64 to watch it, but if you don't have it, NFQ will probably make an avi of it soon anyway.

Infected Mind · « **Reply #41 on:** July 12, 2006, 03:30:00 pm »

For those wondering, the time is 1:49 for Dam 00

Wyst3r · « **Reply #42 on:** July 12, 2006, 03:58:00 pm »

Yeah a pretty sweet run there. Nice job on that Jack.

I'm really looking forward too seeing what you can do on Train and Control

bcks · « **Reply #43 on:** July 12, 2006, 04:44:00 pm »

Wow all ive got to say is the storm codec is the gayest @#%$ thing ever invented.

Not only has it changed vids(that did not come from this guy, looks like most avi vids its @#%$ over) over to its player, without asking me.
I've downloaded the 118 vid 2 times, with it automaticly going to the storm codec and not saveing to my harddrive.
The only way im gonna get it, is if i delete the @#%$ codec off my harddrive, which is looking better and better by the second.

Anyone haveing any fix's for this pile of @#%$ codec and it screwing everything up?

bcks · « **Reply #44 on:** July 12, 2006, 04:49:00 pm »

Wow i finaly found where the vids where going, to my codec's folder, i do not know why, i never told it to go there, ever!!! Let alone any @#%$ d/l. Once again storm codec is very gay.

Now how to get my other normal ge vids back to wmp, instead of stormgaydec??? Anybody????

Infected Mind · « **Reply #45 on:** July 12, 2006, 04:55:00 pm »

select a vid, right click, open with... -> choose program

choose wmp, also check in the box, always use this program to open this file.

associates all of the files types that vid shares with wmp, u might have to do it a few times with different formats; wmv, mpeg, avi etc

Wyst3r · « **Reply #46 on:** July 12, 2006, 05:11:00 pm »

Why use codecs at all? VLC can play pretty much anything, including TAS vids.

bcks · « **Reply #47 on:** July 12, 2006, 10:57:00 pm »

RK · « **Reply #48 on:** July 12, 2006, 11:07:00 pm »

Yea, I've used VLC for a while now, Shade reccommended it to me , I havn't had anything that it can't play

bcks · « **Reply #49 on:** July 13, 2006, 12:11:00 am »

VLC = dinmor or what???????

Holy @#%$, storm codec is now gone, it really @#%$ my computer up, but its gone now, thank god. Maybe ryan too.

News:

Author Topic: GE Gets TAS'd (Perfected World Records) (Read 2121 times)