Best legit fails

[Lecmasta]

wtf mate... where does that come from?
anyway, nobody plays 2.2

[RWG]

When I first played Frigay, I got 27 fast and didn't find it too gay.

Then this:

25 X 23 (failed a)
26 X 2 (failed b)

The gay thing is, I fail b like once every 10-15 runs.

GGGGGGGGGGGGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[Infected Mind]

26 is bad though, just get 24 or 25 so you dont need to play for lower at sometime

If you do complete a 25, im sure you will be glad you failed those 26s, as i bet you would have settled for them

[DYM]

25 Frigate Agent

failed A

[Wyst3r]

Is it really worth posting a single 25 where A failed?

Frigate SA 1:05 x1
Frigate SA 1:06 x5
Frigate SA 1:07 x4
Frigate SA 1:08 x9
Frigate SA 1:09 x2

Im bored...

[Cervone]

Not to be mean, but anything over 1:04 is kinda bad.

[Wouter Jansen]

Everyone has over 1:04.

[Cervone]

I meant fails, obviously.

[bcks]

New strat=Old strat
103=107
104=108
105=109


106 was possible with old strat right? Nobody has gotten 102 new strat failed with saveing the bridge hostage. But im sure somebody will or its possible at least. 109 and 110 are not that  bad with the old strat imo. So 105 is fairly decent.

[Wouter Jansen]

why would fail be any different than complete? if failing worse than 1:04 is bad, completing worse than 1:04 is bad too, since it should be easy to consistently get 1:04s (using your logic) and having it complete at least once.

[RWG]

To be honest, I don't even think 104 would be superb when it comes to the elite's WRs.  I don't know how many people have tried this new strat, but at least 4 people (myself, Dan, Alex, Wouter) have failed 104s with what I believe to not be WR effort put into it.  I'm guessing Eise must have failed 104s, Henrik could easily if he tried more, and likely every other decent eliter could do it.

I joined when this new strat was being used so I don't know if 107 was super or not with the old strat.  The best I've ever done is 114 so for me at least it seems great.  If people ever put as much effort into the new strat as they did the old, I think 101 is probably maxed.

But how about this?

Defuse the engine bomb, do the warp with the defuser still out, diffuse the bridge bomb.  Whip out your gun and kill the ho taker before he kills the ho.  I know its doable because I've done it.  You have to kill him the current way anyways, so I think this is automatic 5 second save.  

That brings is to 56 seconds right?  Even if the hostage doesn't get out, waiting 3 seconds which seems like its enough if he's fast like in Wouter's 106, should be enough.  Making 59s realistically doable in my mind at least.

[bcks]

You found a way to warp with defuser still on? Besides getting shot through.  

I think 103 completes will be a bitch, but someone will prolly get 102 someday. 101 seems out of reach, unless the slow hostage(the 4th one you save) can escape fast, and you just skip saveing the last hostage.

[Cervone]

Quote: why would fail be any different than complete?

Funny you of all people should say this, considering it was you that persevered through hundreds of 23 fails on agent until finally completing one. If fails weren't different from completions, you were wasting your time. However, I'm sure you think otherwise, which means that failing things and completing things should not be held to the same standards.

So I ask this question: which is better on Frigate SA... a 1:06 completion or a 1:03 fail? The correct answer should be a 1:06 completion, since fails are just fails and don't count for anything whatsoever on the ranks. Yet, don't even fucking try to deny the temptation to feel as though a 1:03 fail is better than a 1:06 completion. After all, 1:06 is a pretty weak record and the only thing that failed 1:03 was random luck. Even then, 1:03 isn't particularly great either. What if you were failing legit 1:02s... 1:01s... 0:59s... would you still value a completed 1:06 over that?

That's a matter of opinion, some people probably would and some people probably wouldn't. This only strengthens my argument, which is that Frigate fails should be held to different standards than Frigate completions.

[RWG]

I would easily rather have completions than fails.  Once I keep failing a certain time, I know what time I was going to fail. So then there's no point of failing anymore. I wait until 1 sec before my PR and hop in.  I was failing many 106s and 107s, when my PR was 114.  So I started to wait, and I got the 110.  Even when I got 26 agent, I was failing 25s.  So I waited and hopped in at 26.

With the gayness of frigate, its likely that 103 fails had 104 hostages and gay things like that.  Thats enough for anyone to wonder if they should have waited when they fail a time 2 seconds or more better than their PR on frigay.

Sure its cool to say you failed a 102 or whatever, but once you do it once, whats the point of doing it again?

The only thing I will admit to is that it is tempting to hop in, get greedy, and hope for the best.  It's just not the smartest thing to do.

[bcks]

Im always greedy.

[Infected Mind]

waiting at the boat is a retarded thing to do. never wait at the boat, only results in  a bad time

[Wouter Jansen]

so since when is frigate agent the same as frigate sa? on SA they EASILY escape in time. it doesn't even take an hour for the hostages to complete within 1:03ish. omg agent took me 120 hours, sa should take more! what? oh look, they moved the engine bomb onto the boat.

it's no different than runway sa 23, where if you fail the battery you fail the 23, and else you complete it. once you start failing it, I haven't seen anyone stop playing runway sa before getting 23.

[RWG]

Ok, since Wouter and Alex say don't wait by the boat, and they're the best at frigate, I guess its gay.  Maybe its my luck, but I've never had the hostages escape in time on SA, I always have to wait.

But what if a new guy came along, and had frigate A 35?  He played a lot and got good but never played frigay due to its gayness.  Since he's good, he consistently failed 23s and 24s.  Are you saying he should wait 100+ hours doing that, instead of 1 or 2 hours of waiting at the boat for a 26 or 27, eventhough many guys find 26 perfectly OK?

[Wouter Jansen]

who are you asking?

[Wyst3r]

The reason i get so sucky fails is mostly that i always get slow warps. But i guess i also suck at Frigate

[RWG]

anyone who has an opinion on whether or not its smart to wait depending on the situation.

[Wouter Jansen]

just finish, whenever it completes you'll get what your potential was, pretty much.

[Lark]

Man, my Frigate time really sucks! I think i have 40 seconds for Agent. I just don't have the patience to keep playing the level over because of the hostages. Bryan Bosshardt is one lucky SOB!!!!

[RWG]

For one, Bryan is 4th on the frigate, and many have been luckier.

For two,

Frigate SA 102 (failed hos obviously)
2 pause strat, 59 is doable, hostages aren't.

[bcks]

Ryan,

Quote:You found a way to warp with defuser still on? Besides getting shot through.

[Infected Mind]

lol, how is bryan lucky on frigate?

me dan and wouter are all beating him. that shows how unlucky he is

[RWG]

lol, sorry brandon, I forgot that.

Basically, YES.  I always find if you need lag just sway the control stick back and fro.  Do this as you are going up the stairs.  If there's an explosion, you will get through like a knife through butter.  If not, look right, then left while strafing into the pipe.  The 102 had the latter way.

Any level where you need lag, just sway the stick back and forward.  I do it on jungle, S1 and other crap.

I think there's an obscene strat like low 50s if you can do the reverse warp with the defuser.  The hos would have a shot at escape too.  I don't think the warp is doable though.

[RWG]

102 X 4

hmmmmmm.............  101 is harder than I thought.

The diffuser warp is not too hard.  I've been able to do it before I joined.  I thought everyone knew to get lag and warp though.

[bcks]

You only did 2 pause for both 102 fails?

[RWG]

Yes.  My 4 102 fails were 2 pause strat.

I only did 103 with the current 3 pause strat once, and no one has ever done 102 with 3 pauses yet.  

I'm sure I could do 101 with the 2 pause strat, maybe 100 or sub.

I read some old boards and whats up with paragon pimping out a 59 fail pre-pipe warp?  Did it ever actually happen?

[Wyst3r]

Ah yes, Paragon's old 2 pause strat...But i haven't got any idea what it was. There are tons of strats with very low potential but no possibility for hosts to escape. So don't take the 59 fail too seriously.

[DYM]

What is Paragon's old 2 Pause Strat?

[PerfectTaste]

1:04 Caverns x11  

Edit: Opps, wrong topic.

[Wyst3r]

Quote:But i haven't got any idea what it was.

Usually means: I don't know what it was.

[RWG]

Frigate SA 101 X 1
100 X 1

I timed some of the 2nd basement hostages escapes.  Fastest he did was 52.  He can probably do 45 but no lower.  This strat won't work.

[bcks]

Quote:I timed some of the 2nd basement hostages escapes.

The slow hostage right? Just makeing sure, why would you bother with his timeing on sa?

I thought you were doing a 2 pause run for 102s and lower, plus after doing the bridge bomb, you would be able to still kill the hostage taker?? That isn't what your doing?

[RWG]

Like this.

1) After agent hostages, go downstairs.  Kill 1st taker, skip 2nd.  Defuse bomb, warp pipes, diffuse other bomb, kill taker quickly, finish.

Best I got here was 102.  The 1st basement hostage, I only timed 3 times so far, he takes 40-50 seconds, but I think he can do less.  You release him at 32ish seconds, so you would him to escape in 30 for complete.  Killing the brige guy from outside always gives 6 second escape.  From inside, the best is a bit more.  This one has a chance of working.

2) Kill both basement hostages, diffuse bomb, warp, diffuse other bomb, leave.  I got 101 and 100 here on just soso runs.  You release the last hostage at around 35 seconds and he takes 50-100 to escape.  So no way this works

[Wouter Jansen]

diffuse? you mean defuse?

#2 won't work, anyone could have told you that. if it ever would, the chances are probably worse than for agent 23.

Saving the bridge hostage from outside does not always get him to escape in 6 seconds. I tried it once on PAL, and he got out his fastest only on the 5th try. (then stopped trying)

[RWG]

I knew #2 wasn't going to work, I just thought it was cool to have failed a 1:00 "legit"

If you kill the bridge guy from outside, on the deck, near that missile on the front of the boat, he gets out often in 6 seconds.

If you do the current strat, kill the bridge taker, look away from the hostage and pause, and then never look at the hostage again, his chances of escape become much greater.  For whatever reason, looking at him affects if he will escape quickly or not.  He either takes under 10 seconds, or over 30 seconds to escape.  Never in between.

[Wouter Jansen]

many have failed "legit" 0:04s then.

I never said he doesn't escape often, in fact I would tell anyone asking me what his chances are to escape fast, is that that chance is a good one.

think about the tracker (tracking?) bug. once it gets out of your view it fails. I think the game just unloads the object. Perhaps the hostages can "escape" in other spots than known due to this? Or at least make it more likely for them to use the first (and perhaps closest) spot they encounter.

[RWG]

a "legit" frigate fail is bombs defused, bug attached, 4 hostages released.  004 is just a plain "fail"

You're either lucky, or you're comparing the bridge bomb escape to 23 hostages, because I just played the level for 25ish seconds, only releasing that hostage and defusing the bomb.  

I did this 40 times.  He escaped 5 times.

1/8 odds is not a good chance, imo.

[Wouter Jansen]

how can you call a fail legit when it is impossible for the 4 released hostages to escape in time? if it's impossible than it doesn't even rely on luck anymore since it's just a fact it can't complete and will ALWAYS fail. therefor it's not legit, or a 0:04 would be just as legit.

As for the 2 pause strat, I tried it several times, and I couldn't kill the bridge taker and release the hostage in time. There's so much lag everytime from the engine bomb on to the finish pretty much, it doesn't even always register when I press A to change to my gun, then I got shot every single time so far screwing me up, and even when the gun got out and I shot him immediately (no delay anywhere except for the always present lag), he'd still kill the hostage. So how about.. you get a run showing how its all done on tape, including the warp without changing weapons (having the bomb defuser out). I tried to swing but only a boost from a guard would get me through. Did I mention how much lag I experience yet? I'll just go back to the strat I used for 1:06.

on another note, I got the door to the bridge bomb room open once.

[typosaur]

Archives SA 0:57

I'm terribly bad at opening the safe.

A question: Are the doubledoors quite random? For me they are open at a considerably low percentage of my runs, and getting 57 with closed doors will be hard.

[Illu]

Yeah the double doors don't open every try and try running straight forward at the safe from the side (instead of opening it in left strafe, if you're not doing this) while pressing B, I found that easier. Watch one of my 0:57s if you don't know what I mean, or Dan's 56s, I think he opens the safe that way too.

[Wyst3r]

Yea i remember those double doors pwned my ass when going for 56's

[Lark]

I can only manage to cough up 1:04 for Archives
I can't believe I only score a couple points for this level!

[typosaur]

Good, just had to make sure there weren't a nifty trick to get open doors consistently.

Watched Dan's 56, gonna try strafing straight forward. Thanks for the tip.

[bcks]

57s are hard

[bcks]

Illu and Alex needs to get 56s.

[Infected Mind]

Rather get 16 first :P