Author Topic: Religion  (Read 21075 times)

Red Bull

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« Reply #550 on: October 08, 2008, 01:38:00 pm »
"Because we do not need too, we adapted to the climate, we will evolve again later though."

BREAKING NEWS:

http://www.nu.nl/news/178..._verder_evolueren%27.html

!!

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« Reply #551 on: October 08, 2008, 01:48:00 pm »
I once saw this debate on youtube about whether or not people would be able to adapt to global warming (whether natural or human catalyzed,) another ice age or whatever, and the basic consensus was that say, if it got warmer, people from the equatorial regions would move north or south towards the poles. That is why it's important for Canada to protect it's northern border, since in some years people will be trying to invade here or immigrate illegally or whatever. Russia, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Greenland, US (Alaska) and other countries like this should also be cautious about what will happen soon. Weirdly, there aren't countries close to the south pole, rather Antarctica exists.

Anyways, to watch the debate click here: http://www.youtube.com/wa...pR6Kf0meI&feature=related
"I want to be defined by the things that I love. Not the things I'm afraid of, or the things that haunt me in the middle of the night.  I just think that, you are what you love."  Taylor Swift, Daylight.

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SupaOdin

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« Reply #552 on: October 08, 2008, 03:53:00 pm »
Quote from: afanoftherings
But God bless you and like some of the others like Karl and Jimbo, i hope that God would reveal Himself   to you in a way that would be undeniable and life-changing...
The only way I'm going to believe in God is when he actually appears and says "Yo it's me God lol".


Scrambler Fanny

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« Reply #553 on: October 08, 2008, 05:57:00 pm »
btw sorry for the double post, computer froze up!


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Scrambler Fanny

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« Reply #554 on: October 08, 2008, 06:25:00 pm »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMpk7WerFWw

its long, but if youre gonna hold to evolution, then at least hear the other side. this makes evolution look so dumb.


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Soft-Hedwig

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« Reply #555 on: October 08, 2008, 06:42:00 pm »
Hovind is not a credible source.

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« Reply #556 on: October 08, 2008, 07:07:00 pm »
Watched the first 16 minutes but then Wizards of Waverly Place came on so I had to stop. I intend on watching the full thing. From the initial 16 minutes Kent Hovind really brought up loads of interesting questions about the evolution theory and whether or not it should be taught.

I've always told people that "atheism" in some way or another is like a religion. This debate is very intriguing.
"I want to be defined by the things that I love. Not the things I'm afraid of, or the things that haunt me in the middle of the night.  I just think that, you are what you love."  Taylor Swift, Daylight.

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Scrambler Fanny

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« Reply #557 on: October 08, 2008, 09:40:00 pm »
durk-if it helps you out, dont pay attention to hovind, just listen to what is being said. anyone could be speaking, so just pay attention to it.


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« Reply #558 on: October 08, 2008, 09:51:00 pm »
lol Kent Hovind's wiki article mentions him being incarcerated pretty much everywhere and has terrible wiki format. People (atheists) totally abuse it to make him look stupid thus levering advantage against his arguments. Typical from the nature of those kinds of people though.

There might be some truth to without religion there are no morals
"I want to be defined by the things that I love. Not the things I'm afraid of, or the things that haunt me in the middle of the night.  I just think that, you are what you love."  Taylor Swift, Daylight.

【 Verax Maneret 】

Scrambler Fanny

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« Reply #559 on: October 08, 2008, 10:27:00 pm »
true indeed Goose. he HAS done wrong, just proving the point that everyone screws up. but there is absolutely NO denying what he presents in his debates about and for Christianity. the guy makes every evolutionist look moronic and foolish.  and what's even better is that all he uses is the bible...


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« Reply #560 on: October 08, 2008, 11:00:00 pm »
he actually uses a lot of scientific fact, not just the Bible. But using scientific fact to disprove other scientific theories is certainly very strong.
"I want to be defined by the things that I love. Not the things I'm afraid of, or the things that haunt me in the middle of the night.  I just think that, you are what you love."  Taylor Swift, Daylight.

【 Verax Maneret 】

Scrambler Fanny

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« Reply #561 on: October 08, 2008, 11:48:00 pm »
i believe the "scientific fact" that he uses he very frequently ties back to the bible


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the Blueline Goddess

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« Reply #562 on: October 09, 2008, 12:36:00 am »
And see, I thought Hovind made all creationists look moronic and foolish. To-may-to, to-mah-to.
"Dayle - The thing I love about you is that you are a courageous outer of bullshit artists and at the same time a huge softie. It's no wonder that somebody who is a bit of a bullshit artist would have an issue with you."

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« Reply #563 on: October 09, 2008, 01:09:00 am »
I dont really like to describe myself as an athiest, as i feel it is kind of a trend and yeah, in a way is like a religion, so mostly I would  say i am agnostic. Basically, I have seen nothing to make me believe there is a god, but at the same time I cant say there is none, because I dont know, and until I die or whatever, theres no way i can ever know.
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« Reply #564 on: October 09, 2008, 01:39:00 am »
lol @ Clemens not wanting to be atheist because it's so "mainstream" these days
"I want to be defined by the things that I love. Not the things I'm afraid of, or the things that haunt me in the middle of the night.  I just think that, you are what you love."  Taylor Swift, Daylight.

【 Verax Maneret 】

Scrambler Fanny

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« Reply #565 on: October 09, 2008, 03:26:00 am »
Grats Clems...you're further along then some are...


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« Reply #566 on: October 09, 2008, 04:21:00 am »
Atheism, as an explicit position, can be either the affirmation of the nonexistence of gods,[1] or the rejection of theism.[2] It is also[3] defined more broadly as synonymous with any form of nontheism, including the simple absence of belief in deities.

Everybody denies the existence of at least one God, so in a way we are all atheists. Don't be shy Clemens, you should be proud to be an Atheist.

And disproving one thing does not mean that your other thing has to be true?

THIS WORLD WORKS THE SAME EVEN WITHOUT A GOD, in the ancient times people had to rip open a human chest and rip out a heart to make sure (they thought at least) that the sun would rise. Nobody does that anymore. Thor used to make thunder, we found an explination for that, so that God disappeared over time.

Not believing in a God is the only thing that Atheists have in common, we do not go to church, we do not huddle up to talk about it, we have no rules, written or unwritten on the way we should live our life. We are just humans, we are normal. Released from the dictatorship, detached from the brain controlling hive, be proud of your own intelligence people, think for yourself, put the facts straight and think deeply about it. Why doesn't God cure deceases? Why can he apparently heal blind people, but not heal blindness, why can't he heal people who had amputated limbs? Why did he create the rest of the universe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=200qAsgpfwU

l337

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« Reply #567 on: October 09, 2008, 10:40:00 am »
eise's my hero....and by hero I mean he says everything I'm thinking, but can't word as well.

I watched 20minutes of that hovind video then realised it was trying to do exactly what christianity does = brainwash the viewer. I turned it off and watched a documentary on marmite changing to squeezy bottles.

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« Reply #568 on: October 09, 2008, 11:10:00 am »
I love it how many people think the evolution theory states that we evolved from apes or monkeys, which it doesn't btw.

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« Reply #569 on: October 09, 2008, 11:16:00 am »
Quote from: Red Bull
I love it how many people think the evolution theory states that we evolved from apes or monkeys, which it doesn't btw.
... yes it does.  In fact we evolved from primordial soup which was essentially a group of chemicals sitting around.  The first "life" was apparently these weird... things, they looked kind of like fat dildos.  I have no idea how they reproduced or were susceptible to natural selection, but hey, that's why evolution theory is just as faith based as creationism.

"I want to be defined by the things that I love. Not the things I'm afraid of, or the things that haunt me in the middle of the night.  I just think that, you are what you love."  Taylor Swift, Daylight.

【 Verax Maneret 】

Scrambler Fanny

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« Reply #570 on: October 09, 2008, 11:55:00 am »
FAT DILDO'S!?!?!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



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Red Bull

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« Reply #571 on: October 09, 2008, 12:08:00 pm »
Nah, it just states that we have a common ancestor, which is completely different than that we evolved from a bunch of monkeys.

octoinky

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« Reply #572 on: October 09, 2008, 02:10:00 pm »
See, religious people don't bug me. Not fully trusting evolution doesn't bug me - its a hard concept to grasp. But science is based not on observation and inference, but on using valid tests to confirm hypothesis without unreasonable doubt. The earth and this universe *is* billions of years old, and evolution or not, denying the overwhelming evidence for that in favor of "the bible" is ridiculous. Why can nobody accept that the bible was written during a time without science? The future advancements of mankind were not known, and basically everything people of this time have thought to be true have been proven wrong. Sure, we may be proven wrong as well in 2,000 years, but for those who wrote the bible - they've ALREADY been proven wrong.

The advancements of science and technology have simply made religious claims look silly in the eyes of 99.9% of intelligent people in the world. You say we aren't looking hard enough for God, or the evidence of creationism. I'm sorry, but you shouldn't have to look so damn hard for evidence when there are millions and millions of pages and thousands of theoretical papers written and verified over hundreds of years by people FAR more intelligent than any of us that shows otherwise. You give an example of some moron on youtube, and for every one of those there are probably 10,000 people with better theories about the age of the earth.

Personally, I trust the people who build the skyscrapers to withstand the elements, the bridges, the cars, the space shuttles and astronaut suits, the submarines, the people who have spent their life in geology studying the age of rocks, those who split atoms, have spent their life looking at animal and plant biology, people in gene therapy who have confirmed the ability the alter ones genetic makeup, make our airplanes fly, create artificial organs, have robots doing our work, create telescopes to peer into the distant space, the thousands of distance-algorithms from these findings to see how far away objects are in space, people confirmed the expansion of the universe, etc., etc., etc., etc., and hey.. they're the people who will tell you, science says the universe is billions of years old, the earth is billions of years old, microevolution can be SEEN, and our people evolved, are continueing to evolve, and there will be a day humans cease to exist.

You can backfire and say history shows scientists have been wrong. But I'm sorry, we've proven people wrong who could hardly figure out how to use a wheel, thought the earth was flat, etc. We have REFINED their theories, and even if people look back on us as idiots, we're still a hell of a lot farther ahead of "the bible" right now.

--

monkeys have evolved a TON since we split from the, as redbull said, common ancestor. Making connections between CURRENT DAY humans and CURRENT DAY monkeys is not valid whatsoever. Both species have undergone so many changes that of course there are vast differences. Why would, if we evolved from monkeys, monkeys.. still be the same? Lol. Anybody who says "evolutions is dumb, no way did we evolve from monkeys" has no idea anything about evolution.

Scrambler Fanny

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« Reply #573 on: October 09, 2008, 02:28:00 pm »
*wipes the tears from my eyes*



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octoinky

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« Reply #574 on: October 09, 2008, 02:31:00 pm »
I knew I could convince you! Phew, one down, a billion to go. Oh wait, religion tries to pull people in and ends up creating huge wars, not the other way around! Silly me..

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« Reply #575 on: October 09, 2008, 02:34:00 pm »
Genious...pure genious...

*goes to take advil from pounding headache*

youre right, The Truth will always separate people and likely end up causing wars and what not, simply proving man's sin is a HUGE problem and that we cannot fix our mess by ourselves


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« Reply #576 on: October 09, 2008, 03:30:00 pm »
Fact is science has disproven many accepted beliefs, whether they be religious or otherwise.

I personally would love to see the day science can fully explain the creation of the universe, or whether or not there is just that, the universe. This day likely won't come in my lifetime, but it would be incredible to know exactly what science finds to be the solid, truthful answer to the greatest question ever posed by mankind.
"I want to be defined by the things that I love. Not the things I'm afraid of, or the things that haunt me in the middle of the night.  I just think that, you are what you love."  Taylor Swift, Daylight.

【 Verax Maneret 】

Scrambler Fanny

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« Reply #577 on: October 09, 2008, 03:32:00 pm »
It's been answered for nearly 2000 years-Jesus Christ is The Truth, The Light and The Way. For me and those who believe as i do there is nothing else!


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« Reply #578 on: October 09, 2008, 03:36:00 pm »
yeah but I'd still like to see whatever science finds as fact and is taught in school textbooks and all that. I'm sure it would be a pretty interesting hypothesis.

No need to be so closed minded Shawn. We can all believe in one thing and still read about or look at other things, if for nothing else, for the sake of them being interesting and gaining knowledge.
"I want to be defined by the things that I love. Not the things I'm afraid of, or the things that haunt me in the middle of the night.  I just think that, you are what you love."  Taylor Swift, Daylight.

【 Verax Maneret 】

Scrambler Fanny

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« Reply #579 on: October 09, 2008, 03:46:00 pm »
seek, and you will find...


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« Reply #580 on: October 09, 2008, 03:59:00 pm »
Quote from: afanoftherings
It's been answered for nearly 2000 years-Jesus Christ is The Truth, The Light and The Way. For me and those who believe as i do there is nothing else!
This, and only this is why we are still stuck on this planet. For you there is nothing more to explore, you know your way of living. The rest of the people, who want actual answers (and not a made up one), try to find that. If I believe a bread toaster created the universe it stops me from looking the truth for I have already found the answer inside my heart. Great scientists are people who wanna find answers, we should give credit to those people because mankind would not have been able to survive this long without them. They cured deceases, they extended the life of mankind with more than 60 years. If anything you should worship them (that would make sense), you should worship your parents for giving you life, and you have an obligatation to them to make something of your life and search for real answers.

Please wake up, detach yourself from the hive and become one with your soul, break free from the connection that is holding you back, see the bigger picture and it will all be clear to you.

Amen,

Yours truly,

Rabbi Smit

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« Reply #581 on: October 09, 2008, 04:03:00 pm »
lay off the weed, rabbi


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« Reply #582 on: October 09, 2008, 05:32:00 pm »
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."


Napoleon Bonaparte

"Calling Atheism a religion, is like calling 'bald' a hair color."

 


Don Hirschberg

 


 

This last quotaton without a name sums it all up perfectly,

 


 

"An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An Atheist knows that heaven is something for which we should work now - here on earth - for all men together to enjoy. An Atheist thinks that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue, and enjoy it. An Atheist thinks that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment. Therefore, he seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An Atheist knows that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist knows that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man. He wants an ethical way of life. He knows that we cannot rely on a god nor channel action into prayer nor hope for an end to troubles in the hereafter. He knows that we are our brother's keeper and keepers of our lives; that we are responsible persons, that the job is here and the time is now."



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« Reply #583 on: October 09, 2008, 06:02:00 pm »
That's a really good quote.


Goose, science will never KNOW about the creation of the universe. They simply have hypothesis which are tested by more and more accurate, reliable methods. It was only in what, '92, that they figured out the universe was actually ACCELERATING outward. These come by looking at the intensity of various wavelengths of light coming from far distant supernovas that shine brighter than galaxies to gauge distance, etc. The advancements in science make more measurements possible (who could even measure light wavelengths more than decades ago?). What is that huge thing in Europe that is opening up? Supposed to shed major light on what happened in the first moments after the creation of the universe.


Scientists do have facts to rely on, such as behavior under certain conditions - what does matter do at 300 billion pounds per square inch, or at 10 million degrees C? People who don't know better say "they can't know" but that's just retarded. What we don't know is how to measure density and temperature of objects really far away - but they are getting better and more reliable. The fact is, these sort of things will never be measurable to exact degree, really. For that reason, the universe can never be KNOWN, and is a major reason, in my opinion, that science will never put away religion for good. I do think, however, that if you came back in another 2,000 years religion will be much different.


Why can a religious person not accept differences from the Bible? Sure, you aren't exactly a christian, by definition, but so what? There are many variations today that believe in evolution, etc., and many other deviations from the Bible while still believing in a God. And who is to say they are wrong, or it is a different God? That's just ignorant, because if you're saying that, other people are saying it right back at you in other religions. It is completely stupid to assume you are right and they are wrong, despite them having the exact same angle on you. Religion is faith, and as it becomes harder for educated people to grasp what the Bible says in complete truth, I think those who need a faith and a God in their life will turn to new religions.


My mom, for example, believes in evolution, the age of the universe, completely supports abortion and gay rights, etc., but prays and asks others to pray for her. It pains to me say I don't know how much longer she mighth ave left and who the fuck are you to say she doesn't believe the right thing? If prayer and asking others who believe in a God to pray for her helps her live her life better, who are you to say she's going to hell because she's not a "real christian" or whatever. That is just third world thought to me.


That is why I think the growing acceptance of other ways of thought, religion, the advancements in science, etc., will bury what in my opinion is the pure ignorance of strict religious fanatics. People will continue to fall on faith for help, salvation, etc., but I honestly think if you came back to this planet in 2,000 years, or even 500 years, things would be much, much different.

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« Reply #584 on: October 09, 2008, 06:49:00 pm »
lot of jargon, mate. NOT a lot of wisdom though.



i hope your mom gets better though. sorry to hear about it.


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« Reply #585 on: October 09, 2008, 10:49:00 pm »
Hmm...maybe some of you (octo, eise, Mark) should watch the Kent Hovind video, and tell me he doesn't make a lot of very good points. Instead of disregarding it as saying he's trying to brainwash people (he says from the beginning he loves science and he's not against science because he knows a ton of people are going to say this), consider what he has to say. octo, there is no evidence that the earth is billions of years old. If you'd like to provide some, go right ahead. I'll try to debunk it as best I can. I'd also like to hear what anyone has to say about the tons of historical copies of the New Testament, verifying its validity and truthfulness. Jesus' life fulfilled 1,091 Old Testament prophecies and such. The incredible order of the world (water cycle, DNA, etc.) cannot be realistically explained by random chance. There is no proof that life has come from non-life, focused efforts by scientists in laboratories have not accomplished this, yet the theory of evolution depends on random chance causing it to happen. This is outrageous to accept as anything scientifically possible. There IS a lot of hard evidence for the truthfulness of the Bible.
nothin' moves me more than a groove that soothes me
nothin' soothes me more than a groove that boosts me
nothin' boosts me more, or suits me beautifully
there's nothin' you can do to me; stab me, shoot me

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« Reply #586 on: October 10, 2008, 12:37:00 am »
Corruption is our real enemy.  Some courts as well as other people won't even consider DNA evidence and/or mathematical models to prove points.  It's hard to find the truth knowing humanity suppresses evidence and obstructs justice.

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« Reply #587 on: October 10, 2008, 12:46:00 am »
A lot of jargon? Not a lot of wisdom? I guess thats how it may come across if I know more about something than you, or you just don't want to hear what I have to say. That's okay, though, back out of this worthless topic, had a place to rant!

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« Reply #588 on: October 10, 2008, 02:33:00 am »
Well I am just saying that its too easy to just call yourself an athiest without thinking about it, you need to be open to the possibility that God could exist, even if you dont think he does. I personally dont think he does, but since I can never know , I cant say that I am for sure an athiest.
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« Reply #589 on: October 10, 2008, 02:34:00 am »
Ok then, who is behind God? If it's ok to say God doesn't need a beginning then it's equally ok to say the universe doesn't need a beginning.

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« Reply #590 on: October 10, 2008, 02:37:00 am »
God is beyond time, space and matter, whereas the universe is not beyond space (length, height, width, not outer space.)

and since you cannot have time without space or matter, and need all 3 to exist at the same time, the universe is reliant on all 3.

God by definition is beyond these things.
"I want to be defined by the things that I love. Not the things I'm afraid of, or the things that haunt me in the middle of the night.  I just think that, you are what you love."  Taylor Swift, Daylight.

【 Verax Maneret 】

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« Reply #591 on: October 10, 2008, 02:51:00 am »
Quote from: RWhiteGoose
God is beyond time, space and matter, whereas the universe is not beyond space (length, height, width, not outer space.)  
 
  and since you cannot have time without space or matter, and need all 3 to exist at the same time, the universe is reliant on all 3.  
 
  God by definition is beyond these things.
Damn, I should really read the bible (in a good way) so I can comment on this kind of crap.

Isn't the universive infinitive? No end, no beginning?

@Clemens, trust me mate. I have thought about it for 6 long years, trying to find out what I am supposed to do to on this planet. I looked at a ton of religious books with an open mind to determine which one would give me a satisfacory explanation too the questions I was asking. Why am I here? What am I supposed to do here? None of the books I checked have given me a clear answer on this queston. So, I decided to live my life, take the problems I encounter on the way as they are and think logically and realistic. Giving out as much love and compassion as possible to the people who around me who treat me the same way. If any of that means I am an atheist, so be it. I have no problem with it and neither should everyone else.

@octo thanks for your input mate ^^

SupaOdin

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« Reply #592 on: October 10, 2008, 03:00:00 am »
If God is beyond time, space and matter, then why should we care about him?

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« Reply #593 on: October 10, 2008, 03:09:00 am »
Quote from: SupaOdin
If God is beyond time, space and matter, then why should we care about him?
Probably something about being gratefull to your creator, after all, he is the one who gave you life. You are here because of him.

I still wonder what inspired him to make the world though, was it a school project?


SupaOdin

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« Reply #594 on: October 10, 2008, 03:14:00 am »
I am grateful to my parents because I know they created me.

Soft-Hedwig

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« Reply #595 on: October 10, 2008, 04:33:00 am »
lol @ people trying to defend Hovind.

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« Reply #596 on: October 10, 2008, 04:36:00 am »
lol @ durk's post in the favorite bond films. One of the funniest posts I've ever seen on the boards, if not the funniest. Remember it went like this:

1. Rudebox
20. why u so nasty


In conclusion, Durk is my new God.
"I want to be defined by the things that I love. Not the things I'm afraid of, or the things that haunt me in the middle of the night.  I just think that, you are what you love."  Taylor Swift, Daylight.

【 Verax Maneret 】

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« Reply #597 on: October 10, 2008, 04:45:00 am »
lol Thiradell, there are calculations where a pretty solid estimate is being made on how old the universe is. Forgot most of the procedure, but I guess it's not very interesting to tell you about it even if I had remembered it. Just has to do with expansion speed etc. well anyway, believe what you wanna believe

Personally I don't see the big problem of science and religion going hand in hand, but yeah, some thing are complicated to explain. I mean, I'm pretty sure there are religious physics scientists. That has probably something to do with the many interpretations possible by reading the bible, and that is something what is so screwed about it. People are talking about different religions, but just look at how many different religious groups have evolved from the bible alone.

Anyway, I just woke up, so just hoping I'm making a bit sense here.

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« Reply #598 on: October 10, 2008, 06:56:00 am »

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« Reply #599 on: October 11, 2008, 11:42:00 pm »
I'm wondering why this debate is going.  It's like you argue one segment at a time keeping it going in circles without a real resolution.  Well, to put an end to it, what will it take to convince you otherwise?  What it will take is for you to open your mind to either possiblity and not take one side of the argument.

If you believe one idea to be more important than the other then you are bias.  So something exists if it has unbias characteristics.  Timelessness doesn't cout because it has to be something we can see and possibly touch.  And to say something is boundless, timeless, neato, whatever is an 'opinion', not a fact.  Although science doesn't have all the answers right now, it's the best reference to what we can discover.

You have to accept the possiblity not everyone agrees with you.  To make it worse, there's some who don't believe even if you are right.  They either don't know any better or what you should expect 'corrupt.'

If this isn't enought to convince you I point again to all the criminals the state had to prosecute this year because they felt they needed to be bad.  And thanks for listening to me.