XXI Olympic Winter Games in Vancouver! Discussion! Preds! Fantasy!

[Ngamer]

Awesome gold medal game, and great to see Canada set a new mark for most Golds while the US set a new mark for most medals.  Way to go North America!

[Boss]

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

Rank	Country	Gold	Silver	Bronze	Total
1	United States	9	15	13	37
2	Germany	10	13	7	30
3	Canada	14	7	5	26
4	Norway	9	8	6	23
5	Austria	4	6	6	16
6	Russia	3	5	7	15
7	South Korea	6	6	2	14
8	China	5	2	4	11
8	Sweden	5	2	4	11
10	France	2	3	6	11
11	Switzerland	6	0	3	9
12	Netherlands	4	1	3	8
13	Czech Republic	2	0	4	6
14	Poland	1	3	2	6
15	Italy	1	1	3	5
16	Japan	0	3	2	5
17	Finland	0	1	4	5
18	Australia	2	1	0	3
19	Belarus	1	1	1	3
19	Slovakia	1	1	1	3
21	Croatia	0	2	1	3
21	Slovenia	0	2	1	3
23	Latvia	0	2	0	2
24	Great Britain	1	0	0	1
25	Estonia	0	1	0	1
25	Kazakhstan	0	1	0	1

[RWG]

[octoinky]

Overtime wasn't as insane as the third period, IMO.  Maybe I'm biased, though

It's just, 30 seconds into overtime, I knew the game was over.  Canada came out and controlled the puck and created quality chances, while the USA never got going in OT.  Hard to survive a 20:00 4 on 4 sudden death OT when you come out like that.

I thought the olympics went well.  For the USA, we did have our usual disappointments.  No medals in womens figure skating, bode miller / lindsey (ay?) vonn could have done way better, ohno just standard performances.  I guess in all we showed we are very deep and got a lot of medals, but Canada was able to excel and rise to gold in their top sports.

[AZ]

By the way... if you thought these Olympics had their share of controversy and havoc, just wait until that 2010 World Cup you are so eagerly looking forward to

And if you think those are bad, then just wait until the 2016 Summer Olympics in Rio De Janeiro 

What? 2016 Olympics will be held in Rio? wtf, before that, Brazil will be hosting the world cup in 2014 as well; two of the biggest sporting events in a row  crazy stuff

[Darth Vader]

By the way... if you thought these Olympics had their share of controversy and havoc, just wait until that 2010 World Cup you are so eagerly looking forward to

And if you think those are bad, then just wait until the 2016 Summer Olympics in Rio De Janeiro 

What? 2016 Olympics will be held in Rio?

How could you not have known that?

[AZ]

I probably knew it a while ago but I often forget these kind of things. Same with the 2014 Winter Olympics; now I know it'll be held in Russia, but I wasn't completely sure a month ago or so.

[David Wonn]

For fun, I decided to revise the medal totals, as if the countries had competed in our Mario Kart tournament in Virginia. That is, we triple the 1st places, then add double the 2nd places, then add the 3rd places for the grand totals. This rewards golds and silvers a little more so they are not even with bronzes. A few countries swap positions here and there, but the most notable move is South Korea, which goes up a couple positions. Here are the "Kart" totals with its formula applied:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

Rank	Country	Gold	Silver	Bronze	"Kart" Total (=3xG + 2xS + B)
1	United States	9	15	13	70 pts.
2	Germany	10	13	7	63 pts.
3	Canada	14	7	5	61 pts.
4	Norway	9	8	6	49 pts.
5	South Korea	6	6	2	32 pts.
6	Austria	4	6	6	30 pts.
7	Russia	3	5	7	26 pts.
8	China	5	2	4	23 pts.
8	Sweden	5	2	4	23 pts.
10	Switzerland	6	0	3	21 pts.
11	France	2	3	6	18 pts.
12	Netherlands	4	1	3	17 pts.
13	Poland	1	3	2	11 pts.
14	Czech Republic	2	0	4	10 pts.
15	Italy	1	1	3	8 pts.
15	Japan	0	3	2	8 pts.
15	Australia	2	1	0	8 pts.
18	Finland	0	1	4	6 pts.
18	Belarus	1	1	1	6 pts.
18	Slovakia	1	1	1	6 pts.
21	Croatia	0	2	1	5 pts.
21	Slovenia	0	2	1	5 pts.
23	Latvia	0	2	0	4 pts.
24	Great Britain	1	0	0	3 pts.
25	Estonia	0	1	0	2 pts.
25	Kazakhstan	0	1	0	2 pts.

[youseinthehouse]

 It's just, 30 seconds into overtime, I knew the game was over.  Canada came out and controlled the puck and created quality chances, while the USA never got going in OT.

First of all, full props to Canada for doing what they should have done and taking men's hockey gold (psst, even if it's not how they should have done it).  Wanted to say that first, because my intention here is not to come off as a sore loser or what have you.  But I take serious issue with the Gold Medal Game overtime rules.  I feel it cheated all of us- the players and fans alike from a truly fair ending to the game. BTW, I laid most of this argument out to the group of friends I was watching the game with AT THE START of OT, before I knew the winner of the game.
   

OK, I fully understand going to 4 on 4 for 10 minutes in the prelim round and even the quarters and semis.  It needs to be done in the name of time, because so many things need to happen in the same arena consecutively.  But in games where a medal is determined, the length of OT doubles to the standard period length of 20m.  Why not also keep it 5 on 5?  Again, 4 on 4 works in places like the NHL where they made all sorts of rule changes after the lockout in order to ensure there was a winner to each game, and that overtimes were made more "exciting".  With 4 on 4, obviously the game opens up a lot more, more scoring chances can be generated, and more odd man rushes typically pop up.  This has no place in determining an Olympic medal.  Teams come together on very short notice and learn to play together very quickly.  They barely learn each other's tendencies enough as it is for 5 on 5.  4 on 4, in effect, just boils down to the more skilled players being able to take over with their natural talent.  It speaks very little about how the entire team functions as a team.  It's so much flukier.  It's the same reason why I am steadfastly against shootouts in the NHL.  An entire point in the standings, affecting entire teams' destinies, based on top 3 skill players and a goalie???  So wrong to this pseudo-purist.  But I digress.  I believe the USA was the best team in the Olympic hockey tournament.  Their record and lack of a regulation loss backs this up.  But they didn't come away as the top team.  They were the better and more determined team in the GMG overall, but overtime was entirely Canada's.  Why?  Because they have the most skilled players on the planet, bar none.  Had they USA won on some crazy  breakaway generated as a side effect of the 4 on 4 play... I'd feel no different in terms of feeling cheated by the format.  I'd just feel incredibly, incredibly happier overall

I mentioned I laid this argument out in front of the other people watching the game with me.  They were my casual hockey fan friends, so they didn't necessarily agree with me and were itching to see the excitement a 4 on 4 provided.  So I can see the other half of the argument.  But if my hardcore hockey friends were in different countries right now, but instead in that room, they'd have agreed.

Still, I'm really, really happy, as I said before in this thread that I'd be thrilled if we even made the semis.  And boy, did we ever.  And Parise's goal gave me the best feeling I have ever had in sports viewing.  Better than Lidge striking out Hinske.  Better than Primeau scoring ECF '04 game 6.  Better than Joe Carter '93 (when I was a blue jays fan lol).

[Infected Mind]

Overall I was dissapointed in the non calls of the tournament, too many high sticks and too many men penalities not called. to many dives in the tournament called against the non diver etc.


dunno why it was 4on4 in the gold medal game, just helps the better players win. But Imo the better players should win. Much different then a shoot out where thats only 4 players. at least 4on4 your still playing many lines, just lets talent take over more

[wheatrich]

do you always level your friends like that youse?

Anyway, I learned some things this olympics

1) canadians are ridiculously sensitive people
2)  they have even more homerism in their media than even we do which I didn't know was possible.
3) The IOC wins the biggest assholes award of the olympics by blaming the georgian luger's death on himself since he definitely wasn't responsible for  putting steel beams right outside the fastest corner in the event (which by all accounts was incredibly stupid for not moving or getting some barrier for).  His death was a large part of their fault as a result--obviously they're going to take all steps to not get sued but some of the blame is theirs.

btw place here erupted with Parise's goal.  One of the definite best room eruption moments I've ever been a part of--too bad it was in a defeat.  Just think if NBC tape delayed that like other events lol.

[youseinthehouse]

Overall I was dissapointed in the non calls of the tournament

You mean like Shea Weber cross-checking THE SHIT out of Langenbrunner in anger as soon as he sees Parise's goal in the net?  Worst non-call I've ever seen (watch any replay).  We should have had 1:36 of PP to start OT.  OTOH, I actually enjoyed seeing the refs put their whistles away for most of the borderline calls throughout the tournament.  Way more enjoyable to watch.  Not to mention no commercials during games w00t.

And as for leveling my friends, yes.  We tackled THE SHIT out of each other after that goal.  Pure eruption.  My girlfriend and I started crying.

[RWG]

"Worst non call I've ever seen"

lol

[RWG]

3) The IOC wins the biggest assholes award of the olympics by blaming the georgian luger's death on himself since he definitely wasn't responsible for  putting steel beams right outside the fastest corner in the event (which by all accounts was incredibly stupid for not moving or getting some barrier for).  His death was a large part of their fault as a result--obviously they're going to take all steps to not get sued but some of the blame is theirs.

I wasn't aware that landing on a cement walkway while traveling 160km/h was much more liveable than hitting a pole.

[octoinky]

I dunno, Youse, you put 5 on 5 out there and you are much more likely to see a shootout decide the gold medal, and that is even worse.

Yes 4 on 4 heavily favored the talent of Canada's PLAYERS rather than TEAM, but that isn't necessarily the worst thing

[RWG]

[youseinthehouse]

Add "irony" to the list of reasons why someone should get Goose a dictionary.

And of course octo, a shootout would be the absolute worst way to decide.  My pipe dream involves limitless 20m 5/5 OTs (one thing the NHL does right in the playoffs out of the many things they do wrong all year long).  But I have a feeling a goal would result somewhere in the first 20.

[youseinthehouse]

... by Patrick Kane.

Also, check that, my pipe dream is now the series is 1-1.  Let's play two in New York City, one in Ottawa, one in Chicago, and one in Toronto.

[RWG]

Why no games in Bettman's "hockey hotbeds" Phoenix, Arizona; Sunrise, Florida and Atlanta, Georgia?

[Infected Mind]

well not calling to many men on the ice penaties is virtually the same as not calling delay of game penalties. Mandatory penalites.

Non calls on plays that are stated as penalties by default, and ones that are judged by the referees are very different, judgement calls are always iffy, but ones that are automatic should always be called, reguardless of time left in a hockey game. If canada had to many men you bet 100% they would have been called for it with 2 minutes left. Just because USA was losing, doesnt mean they are imune from penalties.

Since they decided to let that one go, if they called a crosscheck call after the play, i think it would be safe to say the refs were being even more biased then normal.

[wheatrich]

while true goose, surely it wouldn't be difficult to  put up some kind of wall to at least keep the racer on the track as I heard suggested (someone even before the death) quite a bit?

There are walls you can put up in a severely dangerous area that would at least give the guy a chance (softening the impact on the body/whatever).  Even NASCAR has done something to that regard (of course only after way too many people died).  The Georgian president said a well put statement that included a phrase that a sporting mistake shouldn't lead to a death.  

Ugh--limitless OT's is probably the worst OT scenario.  Sure our kind will routinely stay up past 2 am to watch but people with kids generally do not/aren't willing to.  Overtime should give some time to find a solution but also to end the damn game. Limitless OT's just make a bunch of tired guys decide the game which leads to some pretty bad and boring hockey deciding the game--which isn't good either.

Would you rather go back to ties in the NHL youse?   The current system is by far the best solution they've had for a regular season OT.  (5 on 5 shootout's way better too but whatever)  There's no way limitless OT would work for that and ties were ridiculous.

Either way I like the current one the best rather than the previous solutions.

Canada was by far the best team in that tournament.  They outperformed the US in both games (obviously aside from goaltending).  They had better shots and better chances in both games.   Remember the US powerplay where we were going backwards more than anything else?  I've never seen a "better" team that can't even get the puck in the zone for longer than 4 seconds 5 on 4.

[RWG]

[youseinthehouse]

Keith Primeau & Game 4 ECSF also disagrees.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHGMqXQEfw4&feature=related
(Side note:  more Prims heroism (goal I mentioned above) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNkl8uX_XaU&feature=related
There is nothing "bad" or "boring" about watching sudden death hockey, no matter how conservative the players play due to potential fatigue as the game moves on.  You're on the edge of your seat the entire time.

I never said I wanted limitless OT for regular season NHL games.  4 on 4 is fine for here, but at least make it 10 or 20m.  After that, (and we're talking a very slim chance of this if you look at playoff OT statistics-- and those are 5 skaters a piece), I'd prefer ties over shootouts, that's for damn sure.  Without shootouts, the Florida Panthers make the playoffs last year in lieu of NYR.  Without shootouts, the 2007-8 Hurricanes go in to the playoffs as a #3 seed rather than completely miss the playoffs (Capitals bumped down to #7 seed in lieu of Bruins who'd miss)!  Pure idiocy that something with nothing to do with team hockey can make such a huge difference in the standings.  That's right, NHL, your genius system kept out two teams where you are trying to grow more support.  GJ!  Shootouts are as sensible as having each team's top three fighters duke it out with the refs scoring the fights...  only much less entertaining.  Let's overhaul the NFL rules to have RB's with two OTs try to score from the 10 against a group of 3 LBs, Madden training camp style.

And judging by your last comment, it would seem that you correctly hold the belief that a losing team can outplay a winning team.  That said, I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion of Canada outplaying USA in GMG.  For almost the entire third period they let go of the throttle, falling back into a defensive shell mode (that was ultimately dooming for them, temporarily anyway).  So the USA couldn't establish their powerplay.  PP conversion for top teams in the NHL rarely cracks 25 %.  Plenty of PP go by without much offensive zone time or even any SOG.  The Canadians had the correct scheme for thwarting zone entry (conversely the Americans had the incorrect scheme for gaining the zone).  This does not an entire game make.

Of course, I wouldn't go so far as to say the Americans outplayed Canada either.  But other than the brief amount of OT played, I'd definitely consider the game evenly played.  This is why I want a 7 game series RIGHT NOW.  (And damn it if Mike Richards never makes that hustle play on the first goal, we may not have even gone to OT.  Still <3 Mike Richards tho)

But what I really don't get is the Canada was best team throughout the tourney argument, after they tied Switzerland, lost to what was at the time, a written-off USA, and played poorly enough to have to face Slovakia in OT in an elimination game.  What would have been a 10m OT w/ shootout BTW.  Goose can tell you all about Slovakia's star power in that scary scenario!

Anyway, I'm glad Canada won instead of most other teams.  I made a loonie or toonie off of it (money was where my mouth was pre-tourney).  I also was rooting for them as my #4, behind USA, Czech, and Slovakia.  I have heritage from Czechoslovakia, but I don't know which half!  So just root for both I guess =P

Definitely glad they ousted Russia, and also glad no girly Scandinavian teams won.  I needed hitting in the finals, and that's what I got.

OK probably should stop debating hockey points with eliters soon.

[RWG]

[youseinthehouse]

(I was replying to wheat, not you, Mr. McInnis)

[youseinthehouse]

Whatever Ngamer, my reply to the other topic was obviously a joke meant to prod Goose into further ridiculousness.  Didn't have to shut it down!  I rather enjoyed a personally dedicated topic.

[Infected Mind]

I dont like shoot outs in the nhl either. Ive always thought it was implemented for the dying american markets as a boost to interest. Maybe they would fill more then a quarter of their arenas if there are chances for shoot outs and such. (im mainly talking about like phoenix, florida, nashville and such, the ones who reallly have small fan bases) There are some amazing american markets for sure, but others extremely dissapointing.

 I just wish betman wasnt a massive anti-canadian idiot. Ontario could easily fill another 2 arenas as sellouts every game, while keeping toronto and ottawa just as full. Southern ontario highly deserves another team (or 2) but will never get them. Expect kansas or say new mexico to get teams first (lol)

[octoinky]

san jose wasn't a hockey town, and has done incredible with the sharks.  Every game is a sell out, can hardly get back row seats for less than $100!

[DavidK5]

I think both Canadians and Americans can come together on one thing...

That Mars completely sucks:

[RWG]

Those stats are really incorrect.  There were only 86 medal events in the 2010 Winter Olympics.  86 Golds, 87 Silvers and 85 Bronzes were handed out.  I don't know where whoever made that picture got 205 medals from.

[Spaceman-Spiff]

kind of late, but slovakia didn't take canada to OT. luongo robbed demitra in the dying seconds to keep the one goal lead after canada had shit the bed most of the third period, but particularly after the fans started chanting "we want usa," which was embarrassing and cringe worthy in and of itself.

[youseinthehouse]

Yeah, I didn't mean that Canada and Slovakia actually went OT, but I see how what I said was unclear.  I meant Canada played badly enough, "shit the bed" as you say, that the game SHOULD have gone to OT and then possible shootout.  Demitra missed that final chance, as well as passing up on shooting at a semi-open net a minute or two beforehand as well.  Two golden chances to tie it due to Canadian breakdowns, neither of them resulted in rubber finding twine though.

Just wanted to clarify my remark since it gave you the wrong impression.

[wheatrich]

heh at nobody saying anything regarding the worst NHL franchise...

The Islanders--last in revenue  and last in tickets sold almost every season (except this one where the coyotes are totally crushing last place)  Usually the Islanders are 1k below everybody else on average.  [this is why revenue sharing sucks--why the hell does this team still exist and haven't moved yet?]

Blackhawks were right there with them from 01-07 though--I blame the now deceased Wirtz (I even lost interest for awhile) as we're now #2 lol.

Not sure if this olympics showed that fighting probably shouldn't be in hockey or half the league should be contracted or both or some combo of the two.

[RWG]

Actually what the Olympics showed best is that touch icing shouldn't be in the NHL.  You didn't even notice that it was no-touch icing in the Olympics, yet so many players are injured every year from touch icing races in the NHL.  GET RID OF TOUCH ICING.

[youseinthehouse]

Yeah the elder Wirtz really, really set his team back about 20 years.  No televised games in the nation's 3rd largest market & an orig. 6 city to boot, WTF!?  From Chicagoans I've talked to, the difference is night & day comparing now & then.

Hadn't looked at the attendance #s this year but somewhat surprising Phoenix is so far in last given that they're currently in the upper echelon of their conference.  Usually these southern team bandwagons fill up quick if they ever luckbox a playoff birth.

If the NHL were to take any cue from the Olympics, I'd hope it'd be to remove the freakin' trapezoid.

[RWG]

Ugh yeah, the trapezoid too.


 I guess Phoenix's lack of spectators despite being 4th in the entire LEAGUE at one point (now 6th) just really goes to show how disinterested they are in hockey there.  Even Columbus sold out when they got their first playoff game ever last year.


 Anyways, I've been cheering for Phoenix since the beginning of the season as my secondary team in case (read: because) Toronto sucks.  I want them to make it to the finals or semis and still only sell 13 000 tickets just to show Bettman that he's a dumbowumbo.  The best part is that the NHL is suing Phoenix's owner for $63million due to losses that HE apparently cost THEM.


 TL;DR get a Canadian to run the league.

[Time was untied when set.]

I think both Canadians and Americans can come together on one thing...

That Mars completely sucks:

This post makes no sense.