Author Topic: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)  (Read 70358 times)

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #100 on: February 02, 2013, 06:59:31 am »
snapping the camera probably SAVES time since you are blacking out the screen.  It probably reduces lag.  Maybe Bunker 16 is possible with this.
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #101 on: February 02, 2013, 09:07:38 am »
I don't really buy this camera saving time sorcery.

I think it doesn't really do anything, it probably only flashes for a frame or two anyway, so how much lag is that reducing? Zip buggery.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #102 on: February 02, 2013, 12:53:26 pm »
Ryan White is definitely the most out-there, creative eliter ever.
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #103 on: February 03, 2013, 01:58:57 pm »
Henrik, maybe you remember that I told you about having a timesaver in mind. Unfortunately the trick I was thinking of seems impossible, but maybe there is still hope (I only tested a few minutes because sisters started nagging that I should not once again spend an entire home visit with playing that fucking game ^^).
I was thinking about S1 SA/00A and noticed that the safe key pickup is very tolerant. So I thought abouth shooting the key through one of the windows of the safe key hut so that it lands next to the wall so that you can pick it up from the backside of the hut without entering it. That way you switch 1st and 2nd hut in your path, which would allow ~1:37 on a great top player run (shooting key through the closest window while holding speed). Skipping the GL hut entirely would still be impossible because you need the large key to enter the safe hut.
As I said, things are looking pretty bleak and I doubt that a pickup through a solid wall is possible at all, much like you cannot press the facility console from the other side of the glass. But with the outlook of a ~22s total time cut, some further investigation would be nice.

So: Please make it a fact that this trick is impossible :kappa:

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #104 on: February 03, 2013, 11:00:45 pm »
everyone has tried that... Im pretty sure Henrik has proven it to be impossible.
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #105 on: February 03, 2013, 11:09:09 pm »
Clemens and I spent like a solid week trying that strat.  The closest we got was Clemens getting the door open with invisibility on (Frigate balcony doors style) which is still useless since you need the large key to get to the safe (like you pointed out.)

I truly believe the best shot at a new S1 strat is warping yourself into the tower.
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #106 on: February 04, 2013, 06:59:04 am »
Yeah back when me and Simon were developing the TAS strategy we tested this idea and pretty much everything conceivable. If i remember correctly, the key can only move up/down and therefor won't move closer to the wall/window (?). We even tried shooting it out through the roof but without success.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #107 on: February 10, 2013, 05:18:23 pm »
Henrik, can you find out of the spawnguard sorcery for the levels that has spawnguards like you did in Surface 1?
And how much there can be at once?

Also, has JAP different triggers for spawnguards?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #108 on: February 16, 2013, 03:38:01 am »
Okay i might as well throw up the next topic while i'm at it:

Surface 1 Random Guards: Differences between difficulties

In order to improve the strats used on Surface 1 SA/00A, one might consider using a grenade strat. Skipping the GL and instead going for a nade *might* save some time if done well (though less boosts might make it worse in the end :b). The difficulty that a grenade strat would've been most useful on though is Agent. So why isn't it used there? What's the catch?

If you've ever tried the Agent strat on SA/00A, you'd find out that it is in fact possible to get a grenade without changing the route at all. A random guard can spawn in such a way that he is right outside the satellite dish when you get there. So you could definately get sub 1 min doing Agent strat on SA/00A (and very good Fast Exits). But why do we never see him on Agent? The reason lies in some subtle differences between the difficulties on Surface 1.

On SA/00A, The random guards spawning process don't start until you've entered one of these rooms:



So you could camp in the beginning of the level forever without any random guards coming your way. On 007 mode however, this doesn't work because the random guards start spawning as soon as the level starts.

So what about Agent? The trigger for the random guards has nothing to do with entering any rooms. Rather, you need to kill the Large Key guard. Injuring him, letting him see you or entering his hut does nothing. But killing him triggers the spawning process. This is the reason why we never see any random guards on normal agent runs, we don't kill this guard.

An interresting thing that i just found out though, if you let the Large Key guard see you and then run towards the satellite dish or beyond, and kill him there, no random guards will spawn. So simply killing him isn't enough. You actually still need to enter one of the 2 rooms shown above to start the spawning process.

So in conclusion, here are the triggers for random guards on all difficulties:

Agent:    Kill Large Key guard + Enter one of the 2 rooms
SA/00A:  Enter one of the 2 rooms
007:       None


ATTN: HENRIK

What you have here is NOT CORRECT!

I was just testing this out.  On Secret Agent I simply strafed to the tower (which you barely pass by about 25 seconds into the level on SA/00A) and shot through the window there.  One time I shot right through and killed the large keycard man.  In this case, his klobb friend opened the door and ran at me.  The other time I didn't kill him so he came out and got me with his klobb friend.  IN BOTH CASES, random spawning guards appeared!  So you don't need to go into the hut to get him to spawn.  Your theory here is FALSE.

My guess is that you simply need one of the doors on those huts to be OPENED, whether you do it or a guard does it.  This doesn't have a use on Agent, but it's a start that disproves what you believed.

It's definitely possible to kill the keycard through the glass, so if on Agent you need to have a door open + kill him, then this might actually be doable.  Though the detour in route might cost you WR pace.

I recorded a video and I might post that if necessary.  But yeah, SA/00A it seems they will spawn simply once the door is opened.


... TO BE CONTINUED  :kappa:


EDIT 1 - WORKED ON AGENT!  I killed the keyguard through the window, and random snipers spawned!!!!  They didn't spawn immediately, I had to go closer to the satellite building, but they still did spawn.  This is amazing.

It's possible that killing him through the window + having his friend open the door is ENOUGH!


EDIT 2 - Yep.  Just did a run where I killed they keyguard through the window (surprisingly not that hard to do,) went to the satellite building, and there were spawning guards.  You don't need to enter the buildings.  I am making a video of this now.

My hypothesis is that we will have difficulty with;

- killing the keyguard fast enough for this to actually save time

- WATCHING the klobb guy open the door might be needed, ie: having the game load that door being open.  This would obviously make saving time even harder.

- having the spawned guard in the right place to kill him on strafe when he pulls a grenade  :kappa:

But honestly this just went from impossible to maybe plausible.


EDIT 3 -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eD217d5QjE

Henrik, just watch that and explain plz.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 04:20:36 am by True Religion »
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #109 on: February 16, 2013, 06:48:22 am »
I mentioned this to Goose in chat, that this is simply a misunderstanding of the term "room". In the context of Goldeneye's programming, "room" refers to an area (in this case the yellow highlighted areas), NOT a hut/cabin. I probably should've been more clear about this.

So the original information I posted is still correct. While it is possible to get nades on Agent, the process of making random guards available loses too much time for it to be useful in WR runs.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #110 on: February 16, 2013, 11:34:58 am »
One fact which I found a couple of years ago when I TASed Train is that I compared the framerate in PAL and NTSC, and found that it's about 1 FPS faster in PAL. On most levels NTSC is probably faster, but that small framerate difference would explain why Train is advantageous in PAL, because everything (like the laser) is a bit faster because of the slightly higher FPS.

I also noticed that in Widescreen, you get worse framerate (because the N64 has to render more stuff to left and right), and it gets even lower on cinema and if you apply 16:9, so it might be better to play on 4:3, if you want less lag. But maybe the lag in widescreen could also make better warps on doors.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #111 on: February 16, 2013, 07:35:27 pm »
I always had the feel full screen was slightly smoother, even the warps, but that's probably not true. Always prefered wide screen though for making the strafing ability slightly easier.
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #112 on: February 17, 2013, 07:46:16 am »
Some question about this arose while in chat yesterday so i thought i'd post some info on it:

Facility: Dr. Doak

Is he completely random? Or is the game trolling us by making the optimal position less likely? Read on and find out!

First of all, Doak does not spawn immediately. In fact, it's not until you enter this room (it's the bathroom):



So basicly, as soon as you exit the vents, the game will determine Doak's position. But how does the game do this? Well, there's 7 possible positions:



When you exit the vents, the game generates a random number in the range 0-255. Then the process goes like this:

Is number <= 35? -> Spawn Doak at #1.
Is number <= 70? -> Spawn Doak at #2.
Is number <= 105? -> Spawn Doak at #3.
Is number <= 140? -> Spawn Doak at #4.
Is number <= 175? -> Spawn Doak at #5.
Is number <= 210? -> Spawn Doak at #6.
If the number is greater than 210 -> Spawn Doak at #7.

So if we wish to calculate the probabilities for each position:

Chances of getting #1 = 36 / 256 = 14.0%
Chances of getting #2 = 35 / 256 = 13.6%
Chances of getting #3 = 35 / 256 = 13.6%
Chances of getting #4 = 35 / 256 = 13.6%
Chances of getting #5 = 35 / 256 = 13.6%
Chances of getting #6 = 35 / 256 = 13.6%
Chances of getting #7 = 45 / 256 = 17.5%


So interrestingly, #7 has the highest probability, next up being #1, then all the others tied.
The chances of getting the optimal #3 is 1 in 7.31.

The encounter itself with Doak is pretty straightforward. After Bond meets up with Doak, a timer starts which determines when he gives the Decoder and when he leaves. The decoder is given after 300 frames (5 seconds) and Doak leaves after 480 frames (8 seconds). As far as i can tell, there's no way to influence this.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 05:18:11 am by Wyst3r »

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #113 on: February 17, 2013, 11:50:28 am »
That makes sense, Ive had him on top of those stairs quite a few times actually at the start and ive seen alex have it a lot too (in fact his agdq run had doak there ). But its kinda funny since we have all had like 5 fac runs in a row with 0 doaks so you figure theres a 72.8% chance to get a doak in one of the spots on any given run, to go 5 runs in a row without that must be incredibly unlucky and unlikely.
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #114 on: February 17, 2013, 04:06:56 pm »
Henrik, can you find out the odds that a given guard will pull a nade or if there's a way to manipulate guards to increase nade pulling odds? (B1/S2/Cradle etc)

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #115 on: February 17, 2013, 06:27:30 pm »
What about Good Trev on facility? :/ Wanted to know if there's any way to "manipulate" him

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #116 on: February 18, 2013, 01:40:29 am »
Awesome stuff Henrik, thanks  :)
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #117 on: February 18, 2013, 02:29:20 am »
Thanks for the doak info, I was correct that they had different values nice to see that proven.
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #118 on: February 18, 2013, 12:50:34 pm »
I'm curious about how Doak is activated. Do you have to look at him? Get within a certain range?

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #119 on: February 18, 2013, 01:02:47 pm »
The game checks if Bond is within Doak's line of sight, and if so triggers Doak's walking toward Bond. After this the game checks if Bond is within a certain range and if so triggers the timer/talking.

Quote
Henrik, can you find out the odds that a given guard will pull a nade or if there's a way to manipulate guards to increase nade pulling odds? (B1/S2/Cradle etc)

I'll check whenever i have time.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #120 on: February 19, 2013, 02:20:47 am »
I also noticed that in Widescreen, you get worse framerate (because the N64 has to render more stuff to left and right), and it gets even lower on cinema and if you apply 16:9, so it might be better to play on 4:3, if you want less lag. But maybe the lag in widescreen could also make better warps on doors.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #121 on: February 22, 2013, 11:13:19 am »
Quote
Henrik, can you find out the odds that a given guard will pull a nade or if there's a way to manipulate guards to increase nade pulling odds? (B1/S2/Cradle etc)

For Cradle/Surface 2 the chances of a guard choosing to throw a grenade seems to be 11/256 = 4.3% or 1 in 23.27.

I can't access the scripts for Bunker 1 because they use a kind of default script, but I imagine their chances being the same.

Cradle guards also need the 1 zmg to be able to use the nade throw action. Each guard has the following probabilities to become a certain type:

1 Zmg/Black Beret = 81/256 = 31.6%
2 Zmg/Burgundy Beret = 80/256 = 31.25%
2 Zmg/Navy Beret = 95/256 = 37.1%

And no, you can't manipulate higher nade throwing odds.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #122 on: February 22, 2013, 11:39:01 am »
So basically, the odds for instance, of having the second guard on Cradle (the guy coming up the ramp) be both a 1 ZMG Black Beret guard, AND choosing to throw a grenade, are:

(11/256)*(81/256)

= 0.01359558105

= ~1.36%

This translates to roughly 1 in 74 runs.

The odds of getting a grenade are *slightly* better than that because the 3rd guard can spawn and show up by the first guard (maybe odds on him being in the right spot would be helpful?) as well as being able to get a grenade from the 1st or 4th guards.  But I'd say the odds of getting a grenade on Cradle are definitely no better than 1 in 60 runs, and that is being very generous.

So roughly once per hour.
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #123 on: February 22, 2013, 12:28:09 pm »
QUICK PD QUESTION BECAUSE IM NOT SURE IF HENRIK CHECKS ANY OTHER TOPIC

Henrik, when you have any time, could you please check and see if you lose FPS when you play on WIDE. as far as I can tell, you don't, but I want to be absolutely sure about it hehe.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #124 on: February 22, 2013, 04:29:49 pm »
QUICK PD QUESTION BECAUSE IM NOT SURE IF HENRIK CHECKS ANY OTHER TOPIC

Henrik, when you have any time, could you please check and see if you lose FPS when you play on WIDE. as far as I can tell, you don't, but I want to be absolutely sure about it hehe.

Second this!

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #125 on: February 22, 2013, 06:41:53 pm »
I play widescreen right now and I seem to get better framerate.... atleast it seems like i get better framerate... thats weird
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #126 on: February 22, 2013, 06:43:26 pm »
Lockwood has officially the most troll avatar + sig in elite history (aside from when Durk and I intentionally spammed ours with 10+ .gifs of Hello Kitty Suicide Club & other nonsense.)
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #127 on: February 23, 2013, 03:14:00 am »
Henrik, when you have any time, could you please check and see if you lose FPS when you play on WIDE. as far as I can tell, you don't, but I want to be absolutely sure about it hehe.

Yea curious about that. From my personnal experiences, it actually feel smoother when I play wide.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 03:36:21 am by Get Untieds Or Die Tryin »

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #128 on: February 24, 2013, 08:47:47 pm »
Henrik, can you please give me/us a brief explanation as to how some of the doors work? Do they work strictly off of the amount of frames that pass by? Does each one have it's own assigned number in the script, or are all the ones that work the same grouped as one? (example: Each sliding door in Facility is assigned the number "2", but the fast door is assigned "2A" or something).

What about the physics of the doors that let you shoot through them? From multi experience, I'm definitely sure you have to be able to see the other side (example: Bunker 2 doors with windows, Fac stall doors that don't reach the ceiling, doors that are partially open already from your action); doors can also be shot through when fully closed if the other character is touching the door. Am I missing anything?

What causes that weird glitch with Tiny Bond and the stairs?

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #129 on: February 25, 2013, 08:20:04 am »
Quote
Henrik, can you please give me/us a brief explanation as to how some of the doors work? Do they work strictly off of the amount of frames that pass by? Does each one have it's own assigned number in the script, or are all the ones that work the same grouped as one? (example: Each sliding door in Facility is assigned the number "2", but the fast door is assigned "2A" or something).

Each door has it's own set of properties that can be individually set (so no groups). These properties includes things like acceleration, max speed and how long it will stay open. So apart from these properties, the fast and slow brown doors are pretty much identical.

Quote
What about the physics of the doors that let you shoot through them? From multi experience, I'm definitely sure you have to be able to see the other side (example: Bunker 2 doors with windows, Fac stall doors that don't reach the ceiling, doors that are partially open already from your action); doors can also be shot through when fully closed if the other character is touching the door. Am I missing anything?

I'm not entirely sure about this but i noticed there's a property flag for doors that say "Area behind door not visible" (most doors have this) and "Area behind door visible" (used for Facility bathroom stalls and probably those others doors you mentioned like windowed ones). I'm guessing "not visible" simply means the game doesn't load any models behind the door and consequently doesn't do any collision detection for bullets either. So your theory about seeing through the door should be correct.

About characters touching the door, i'm assuming parts of their body is seen through the door? Even if not, the collision detection mechanism might find them to be slighly within the door and therefor partially within the same room Bond is in. When it comes to culling objects for visibility/collision detection, objects that are partially within the bounding box are probably kept, and only objects that are fully outside the box are culled.

Quote
What causes that weird glitch with Tiny Bond and the stairs?

I have no idea :p

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #130 on: February 25, 2013, 11:58:36 am »
Regarding the tiny bond glitch, I found a pretty cool version of it back in like 1999. Not sure how many people know about this. On silo, after going up the first set of stairs, crouch and walk back down them. If you stay in the very center of the hallway, you can walk all the way back to (on top of) the first door. You can then close the door and basically trap yourself inside the door. It gets really laggy if you start shooting and stuff.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #131 on: February 25, 2013, 05:12:19 pm »
Can you enlighten me as to why the Bunker 1 and 2 "fast" versions got switched pre-release? Bunker 1 clearly has Bunker 2's x version, and vice versa. Seems like it was a naming issue; are they both named "bunker" in the game code?

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #132 on: March 04, 2013, 12:47:08 am »
Another spam question:

If you destroy the table without a Grenade on Surface 2, I think the radio boxes randomly blow up? I guess what I'm asking is if falling objects take the same amount of damage every time, or is it random? Another example would be the screens in Bunker 1/2 sometimes blowing up when they hit the ground, and sometimes not.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #133 on: March 04, 2013, 05:00:18 pm »
Oh my GOD, do we really need Henrik to answer such simple questions? If it isnt answered within a week, its probably a dumb question  :kappa:

Anyway, to answer your question regarding S2, it has to do with the height which the objects originally fall. The game randomly decides whether or not to send the objects flying upwards into the air, and depending on that whether or not it blows up. When you shoot out the table, you can always tell which radio youll have to shoot depending on which one goes into the air, or if any do at all. Thats why sometimes you get instant A completions
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #134 on: March 04, 2013, 08:52:26 pm »
there needs to be a sub-topic called "ask Dave", for simple problems Jim can't work out
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #135 on: March 04, 2013, 09:51:59 pm »
Jim, was there ANY relevance in regards to speedrunning with that question or were you just trying to sound like a "thinker?"


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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #136 on: March 04, 2013, 10:29:48 pm »
It's a facts topic, Jesus Christ! Hate all of you right now and am rage quitting this nonsense.

Darth Vader

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #137 on: March 04, 2013, 10:46:38 pm »
 :kappa:
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #138 on: March 04, 2013, 11:01:03 pm »
It's a facts topic, Jesus Christ! Hate all of you right now and am rage quitting this nonsense.
inb4 retirement topic.
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #139 on: March 06, 2013, 09:07:39 am »
It's a facts topic, Jesus Christ! Hate all of you right now and am rage quitting this nonsense.

Enough is enough. There should be a new forum for people who actually care about facts.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #140 on: March 07, 2013, 10:15:45 pm »
Come on guys. This is a great topic with great information. If you want to pay Jim out for asking a pointless question do it somewhere else.
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #141 on: March 07, 2013, 10:26:55 pm »
should have known karl would join the darkside once he became a mod

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #142 on: March 07, 2013, 10:40:32 pm »
It's cool to post funny things. But multiple people were ganging up and belittling another member. I'm not going to allow that, and especially in a topic like this which has genuinely great info. You're just upset that I'm going to get 23 first.
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Darth Vader

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #143 on: March 08, 2013, 02:45:30 am »
You're just upset that I'm going to get 23 first.

 :nesquik:

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #144 on: March 08, 2013, 05:13:00 am »
There are no dumb questions. A question is a very good tool to get an answer you don't know (yet).
sexy, this

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #145 on: March 09, 2013, 12:29:28 am »
So someone sent me this link earlier today:

http://kotaku.com/5897828/long-lost-emulation-easter-egg-discovered-in-goldeneye

I havent seen anything on this forum about it ever, but this seems to be from almost a year ago... is this some hoax of some kind or is this actually something to dust off the old emulator for?

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #146 on: March 09, 2013, 02:48:13 am »
Yay it's a bit like the game in DK64 ;D This should be included in GE 100%.
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #147 on: March 09, 2013, 01:33:33 pm »
I've posted this before but i'm reposting it for this topic:

Statue: Flight Recorder

The principle is the same as with Dr. Doak on Facility. This time we have 9 possible positions:



When placing the FR, the game generates a random byte (0-255). The position is then determined by the following intervals:

0 - 30 -> Place FR at #1
31 - 60 -> Place FR at #2
61 - 90 -> Place FR at #3
91 - 120 -> Place FR at #4
121 - 150 -> Place FR at #5
151 - 180 -> Place FR at #6
181 - 210 -> Place FR at #7
211 - 240 -> Place FR at #8
241 - 255 -> Place FR at #9


Probabilities are calculated same way as with Doak:

Chances of getting #1 = 31 / 256 = 12.1%
Chances of getting #2 = 30 / 256 = 11.7%
Chances of getting #3 = 30 / 256 = 11.7%
Chances of getting #4 = 30 / 256 = 11.7%
Chances of getting #5 = 30 / 256 = 11.7%
Chances of getting #6 = 30 / 256 = 11.7%
Chances of getting #7 = 30 / 256 = 11.7%
Chances of getting #8 = 30 / 256 = 11.7%
Chances of getting #9 = 15 / 256 = 5.85%


This time we find #1 to have the highest probability, #9 by far the worst, and all others tied.

The chances of getting the optimal #2 is 1 in 8.53.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 12:51:07 pm by Wyst3r »

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #148 on: March 10, 2013, 03:09:50 pm »
So someone sent me this link earlier today:

http://kotaku.com/5897828/long-lost-emulation-easter-egg-discovered-in-goldeneye

I havent seen anything on this forum about it ever, but this seems to be from almost a year ago... is this some hoax of some kind or is this actually something to dust off the old emulator for?

Looks interesting, thanks for posting.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic
« Reply #149 on: March 10, 2013, 03:47:00 pm »
Henrik, could you figure out how much better the best FR is, compared to the 2nd best FR?  I don't think this would be that hard... just wait at full speed and time picking up the 1st and 2nd FRs both, and see the difference.

I'm wondering if it's something like 1.5 sec or something like 0.5 sec.  Could be an interesting factor.
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