Author Topic: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)  (Read 70593 times)

Wyst3r

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #200 on: December 23, 2013, 03:29:17 pm »
Pretty sure i've tested this in the past while TAS'ing. But anyway, a quick test now showed that it only saves 1-3 frames. Even if you haven't reached full-speed yet. Might be slightly more useful on S1 since you're standing completely still.

I guess with 2.x on Streets/Depot, the only levels to consider are: Dam/Runway(?)/S1/Frigate(?)/Statue/Archives(?)/Train(Agent)/Cradle.

Edit: Okay so on S1 this depends a bit on your technique. You can get "optimal" finishes by R-aiming the final lock (the one closest to you) while holding the strafe button, that way you end the level instantly when the lock is shot (assuming a good angle/position). Compared with holding speed and doing the lock normally, this method is ~5 frames (0.083 seconds) faster. Otherwise it's dependent on your reaction speed, though with good timing you shouldn't lose more than an additional 5 frames at most.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 04:00:51 pm by Wyst3r »

Illu

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #201 on: December 23, 2013, 03:52:11 pm »
S1 you'd have to be super fast on the R button after last lock, thinking on console at least probably faster to hold strafe after last lock, maybe archives heh.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #202 on: December 23, 2013, 04:02:54 pm »
5 frames is almost .1 assuming that's for NTSC, so that could be huge in the quest for 101 down the road.

Illu

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #203 on: January 24, 2014, 05:26:31 am »
http://www.twitch.tv/illudude/c/3601879

.5 timesaver for control

it's basically Trents pause trick but I realized you don't need to look fully away from Nat and also don't need to look completely ahead before turning around for it to work

Maybe this could still be improved or even implemented somewhere else, or combining it with further Nat manipulation.

The way I do it in the vid seems maxed, if you do it any faster it fails I think.

Illu

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #204 on: January 24, 2014, 05:52:53 am »
hmm .5 might have been an exaggeration, but I'll keep using it

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #205 on: January 24, 2014, 06:00:07 am »
357
LAS

#TeamLevelRotation

Wyst3r

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #206 on: January 24, 2014, 06:22:48 am »
I just tested this, and as i suspected, it shouldn't save anything. (It's theoreticly impossible to save time on Natalya's messages).

The problem is that Natalya's timer must always reach 900 frames (since she reached the monitor), in order to display the "Got one open!" message. This is true no matter which method you use. So with a properly timed shot in her arm, you can always get an optimal reaction.

This strat is still legit though, because it makes sure that as long as you look up at the right time, Natalya will never be in an animation, and therefor, start talking immediately (as long as the timer has reached 900). It doesn't save any time, but at least Natalya will be at full health.

The pausing/looking away is completely unnecessary btw, except perhaps for knowing what timing to use. This works equally well if you simply use full-lookdown anywhere/any angle and look up towards Natalya just before the 900 frames have passed.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 07:00:33 am by Wyst3r »

Illu

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #207 on: January 24, 2014, 06:28:05 am »
ok great, I was probably having good results with it because it's easier for me to time than the shot and it makes protect easier (had nearly 2 359 fails in a row with it)

Could also delay the alarm on 00a for longer if using that trick.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 06:35:53 am by Illu »

Wyst3r

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #208 on: January 24, 2014, 06:59:58 am »
Quote
Could also delay the alarm on 00a for longer if using that trick.

You only get 1 extra leg shot though, since you still need to take off the BA to delay the alarm.

Btw, while watching your 00A No Damage run, i started wondering why we don't use the LTK strat for normal A/SA/00A? Seems much easier/safer to both survive and protect Natalya. Is there any reason for not using this or is it actually a better alternative?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 07:24:20 am by Wyst3r »

Illu

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #209 on: January 24, 2014, 07:30:11 am »
Yea was thinking that myself a bit, maybe you'd get her delay message up while going up there after clearing the drone room though.

But maybe if you sneak by the railings you could get up there.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #210 on: January 24, 2014, 09:53:10 am »
I did some testing with that actually. The thing is, Natalya is not standing exactly in the middle of the room, but rather a bit closer to the stairs she came down from. Because of this, you can go up on that side and not lose any time (as long as you're not wandering off too far from the railings). If you try it on the other side,  the "James, I need cover" message should come up, even if you hug the railings.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #211 on: January 24, 2014, 10:42:04 am »
Doing the protect from downstairs is much easier for me. Ammo can be a problem when killing them from upstairs.

Wyst3r

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #212 on: January 24, 2014, 12:46:49 pm »
Alarm-delay would shorten the protection time though (with this strat, no guards should ever come near Natalya anyway, so no real reason not to do it). Also you can let some black hat guards get near you, which would certainly make their ammo available, since the protection radius extends all the way to the other side of the rectungular railing.

Anyway, it's been a while since i made a real post here so here goes:

Control: Black hat guards

Once the alarm goes off, 2 black-hatted guards instantly start spawning. What you might not now is that their spawning is actually dependent on Bond having killed 2 guards in the very beginning. Of course, you are required to kill those guys anyway so there's no way to utilize this fact.

Each guard has 7 separate spawning points, shown below:



Red points belong to one of the guards, blue to the other. The probabilities are the same for both though:

#1 -> 16,0%
#2 -> 15,625%
#3 -> 15,625%
#4 -> 15,625%
#5 -> 15,625%
#6 -> 15,625%
#7 -> 9,765%


End of story? Not quite. There's another interresting but very subtle fact about these guards. Normally the games does regular "Have any of the guards died?" checks at 60 frame (1 second) intervals, and if so, respawns the guard(s). This interval actually changes once Natalya says "Good luck, James, I'll be waiting for you" and starts running towards the elevator. What's the new interval you ask? 40 seconds. So killing the black hat guards just after Natalya's message means no more black hat guards for 40 seconds.

There's 1 exception though, and that is if you enter the final big room where Trev is. If you do this, the game starts doing 1 second checks again. (if you go back and leave the room, it's back to 40).

Maybe this info could be of use for some of the harder modes.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 05:22:58 am by Wyst3r »

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #213 on: January 24, 2014, 03:27:26 pm »
On my Control SA videos where I was getting the body armour, I noticed that if you sneak back down the right side (the side Nat came from) she doesn't get mad at you.
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Wyst3r

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #214 on: January 24, 2014, 05:54:40 pm »
Did some testing on how to get "optimal" Natalya's after meeting up with her the second time ("I'm coming, James"). Turns out the fastest way is probably to move out of the door, and instantly look back (Not too far left though!, since that will cause her to open the door instead of warping it), wait for her to come into view and then keep her in view all the way until she reaches the computer.



Compared to perfect or near-perfect execution of the regular method of blowing up the glass, shooting screen, looking towards Nat, this method should be faster 99% of the time (at least according to my emulator tests), on average between 10-20 frames (0.16 - 0.33 seconds) and with a maximum of around 30 frames (0.5 seconds).

The problem of course is what to do with the drone guns. On Agent, you can simply run into them, which might be worth it if going for 3:57? You probably have time to at least throw the remote mine in though, after Nat has reached the computer, to kill most guards and the nearest drone gun.

Might also mention that going for the Body Armor, although you never get the "James, I need cover" message, will lose a minimum of around 30-60 frames simply by not looking at Natalya properly.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Also, here's an interresting idea for Control DLTK:

Using Cinema + 16:9 and breaking 2 of glasses on the top floors, you can get all the "bad" black hat spawns (see my previous post) in a single view, thus making it impossible for the black hat guards to spawn there. Simply stand as in the picture below, then move down to the screen as soon as alarm goes off. This should guarantee that both guards get trapped at Boris' desk. I tested this quite a bit and so far, it hasn't failed.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 05:25:42 am by Wyst3r »

Illu

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #215 on: January 24, 2014, 06:35:26 pm »
cool

now for cracking the protect part  ;D

Her first message can be made to pop out faster by shooting her, pause trick works there too I think (calling it pause trick even though pausing probably has nothing to do with it working) but it wont make the protect be any shorter, maybe there's a way though.

Wyst3r

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #216 on: January 24, 2014, 06:47:31 pm »
Her messages are completely irrelevant, so speeding them up means nothing. The Obj B timer starts when she reaches the computer and you can do absolutely nothing to make it run faster/start earlier (I've tried everything).

The only theoretical way i could think of to break the protection part comes from the fact that the same timer is used for the first encounter with Natalya, and it keeps running until it's reset when protection starts. I figured, if you could skip it being reset, you could get almost instant obj B completions.

Of course, it's completely impossible to do in practise :nesquik:

Wouter Jansen

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #217 on: January 24, 2014, 06:59:30 pm »
Cool, if that makes protect cake for DLTK, I should get sub 9 sometime :)
Does it only work with "Cinema + 16:9 and breaking 2 of glasses"?
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #218 on: January 24, 2014, 07:24:14 pm »
I think so. You might not actually need Cinema + 16:9, maybe Cinema or just Normal + 16:9 works too. Doesn't make any real difference though. You definately need to break both glasses to prevent guard spawns upstairs, although chances are pretty good you'll succeed without it (68,75%).

Illu

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #219 on: January 25, 2014, 05:32:18 am »
I guess fastest ending possible is like a mid high 16 after Nats last message fade, the tas had that also, just realized Cervone also had like a mid high 16 end also, those seem rare.

Wyst3r

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #220 on: January 25, 2014, 06:04:36 am »
Lower than 16 might be possible with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Fha0Vw9hM

The old TAS is pretty unoptimal to say the least, and uses outdated strats so i wouldn't count on it being the fastest possible (the above video managed to tie that time, without being optimized at all and being played in real time). I dunno if the extra 1 health Natalya has with the new beginning strat makes this more useful for Agent than before.

Oh and maybe i should mention, i think a decent strat for timing the new beginning might be to do 6 slaps after Natalya's first message dissapears, then look up straight after. Not sure if there's a better way?

Illu

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #221 on: January 25, 2014, 07:13:26 am »
wow yea that's a sub 16 ending for sure, I'm also thinking of killing more guards during protect to lower lag (could save a tenth or two who knows) could kill the guards behind the door where the MF is which we normally blow up last, and also the guards on the left side where one of the BAs is.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #222 on: January 25, 2014, 01:26:17 pm »
Come to think of it, holding speed while looking down and timing Nat with slaps would obviously be the best way to get first door open.

Wyst3r

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #223 on: January 25, 2014, 06:02:25 pm »
Making this post to summarize the things we already know:

Control: Natalya

Note: 1 second = 60 frames

Initially, the game waits for Bond to destroy all 3 (existing) drone guns as well as the 6 guards present in the very beginning. Once this is done, Natalya starts running to the computer terminal as soon as she has a direct line of sight to Bond.

First encounter:
As soon as Natalya stops at the computer, but before taking the very last step, a timer is started. The game waits 60 frames and then starts playing an animation. After this, it enters a loop where it simply waits for her current animation to end. Once this is true, the text "Natalya: The blast doors have been locked by the security computer" is displayed on screen.

Now a bigger loop is entered, where the game starts playing random animations. Before selecting an animation though, the game first checks to see if the timer has reached a value greater than 900 frames (15 seconds). If so, it displays the text "Natalya: Got one open! Head for the control room, James, I'll do what i can from here." on screen. It also sets a flag which causes another script to open the door, as well as preventing the "Has timer reached 900 frames" check in future iterations of the loop.

Once an animation is selected, the game enters a loop where it checks if the computer has been destroyed and waits for Natalya's current animation to stop. When that happens, a second loop is entered where the game checks if Natalya is currently visible on the screen. If true, the game returns to the beginning of the loop where it checks if 900 frames have passed and selects another random animation etc...

Here we can also see the reason why the "look straight down" strat works for making Natalya's message appear as early as possible. If Natalya isn't visible on screen, the game can't return to the beginning of the loop and select another random animation, which in turn would cause the game to wait until this animation has stopped. Instead, we can time this well and look up as soon as 900 frames have passed, which instantly causes the game to open the door for us. A similar effect was caused by the previous strat, in which you'd shoot Natalya so that the damage animation stopped exactly when 900 frames had passed.

Second encounter:
Natalya is still looping around with random animations, but what i didn't mention was that the game also does checks to see if Bond has entered the yellow area displayed below:



If so, "Natalya: I'm coming, James!" is displayed on screen and Natalya starts jogging to the next computer. The beginning of the next script is virtually identical to the previous encounter. Once the computer is reached (but before the very last step), her timer is reset to 0 and started. After 60 frames an animation is played. Once the animation has ended "Natalya: The Goldeneye is set to fire on London!" is displayed on screen.

Now a similar loop to the previous encounter is entered, where the game first checks to see if 900 frames have passed. If so, "Natalya: I'll try to override the guidance controls" is displayed, and the alarm goes off. Otherwise, a random animation is selected. Once selected, an inner loop begins where the game checks if the computer screen/keyboard has been destroyed. It also checks if Bond is within 150 units of Natalya. If not, "Natalya: James! I need cover while I'm doing this" is displayed and the timer is temporarily stopped.

If Bond was within 150 units, the game will check if Natalya's current animation has stopped, and if so, go back to selecting another random animation. Before jumping back however, it checks to see if Natalya has a direct line of sight to Bond, if not, it resets Natalya's position/angle to the default in front of the computer. (This also happens at the previous encounter, if Natalya wasn't visible on screen)

If Natalya's animation hadn't stopped, the game now starts checking the timer to see if certain texts should be displayed:

If Timer > Value    Text/Event:
2400 (40 seconds)"Natalya: If i can just get the yaw oscillation above 5 degrees."
3600 (60 seconds)"Natalya: James, do you think you could be a bit quieter? I can't hear myself think."
4800 (1 minute(s) 20 seconds)"Natalya: The bounary-layer temperature stays pretty steady until re-entry."
8100 (2 minute(s) 15 seconds)"Natalya: Did it! The satellite's orbit is decaying." + Objective B Complete
8400 (2 minute(s) 20 seconds)"Bond: Get back to the surface, Natalya. I'm going after Trevelyan."
8700 (2 minute(s) 25 seconds)    "Natalya: Good luck, James, I'll be waiting for you." + Natalya starts jogging back to the elevator

If none of these are true, or if the current message has been on screen for more than 60 frames, the game returns to checking if computer has been destroyed.

To end things, once Natalya reaches the elevator, Objective A completes and she fades away.

So there you go, i think that's pretty much everything there is to know about Natalya on control.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 05:26:03 am by Wyst3r »

Wouter Jansen

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #224 on: January 25, 2014, 07:03:36 pm »
I love these clear scripts for how a level works :)
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #225 on: January 25, 2014, 08:42:36 pm »
"As soon as Natalya stops at the computer, but before taking the very last step, a timer is started."

Does that mean just as she takes the last step we can shoot her in the chest to make the timer start quicker?
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Wyst3r

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #226 on: January 26, 2014, 06:16:30 am »
#1: Natalya jogs to computer -> #2: She gets near it -> #3: Starts walking -> #4: She gets even closer -> #5: Stops -> #6: Takes 1 final step to face the computer.

At step #5, when she is fully stopped, the timer starts. The problem is, that you can only shoot her when she is within very close range of the computer, otherwise she'll go back to step #4 and start walking, and that means the damage animation from a chest shot will always take longer than letting her walk the last step or so. MIGHT work on DLTK, since reaction times are much shorter, but i haven't tested it. And obviously it wouldn't be very useful for DLTK anyway.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #227 on: January 26, 2014, 03:16:59 pm »
Henrik, before I post the Control info more widely, it should be known;

What causes Trevelyan to start talking when you shoot him, but doing the same doesn't work for Natalya?  What's the difference?  Are there any other speech triggers we make faster in this game?

If you've posted about that earlier, just relink.  Otherwise, hopefully you have some info.  Thanks a ton for your great work Henrik :)
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Wyst3r

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #228 on: January 26, 2014, 04:32:16 pm »
Umm off the top of my head the reason has to be that the game doesn't actually check if Trev has reached his goal point, rather it only checks "have Trev stopped moving". On Control the developers programmed it "better" so that Natalya actually has to be within a certain distance of the computer before it starts checking if she has stopped.

The scripts in this game are inconsistent to say the least, so it's not uncommon to see different ways of accomplishing essentially the same thing. That's why many tricks are unique to a single level.

Btw, you might want to include links to the Goldeneye Setup Editor and mention that it includes all the game's scripts, in case anyone wants to attempt reading it themselves.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2014, 04:45:01 pm by Wyst3r »

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #229 on: January 28, 2014, 10:32:43 pm »
http://www.twitch.tv/illudude/c/3601879

.5 timesaver for control

it's basically Trents pause trick but I realized you don't need to look fully away from Nat and also don't need to look completely ahead before turning around for it to work

Maybe this could still be improved or even implemented somewhere else, or combining it with further Nat manipulation.

The way I do it in the vid seems maxed, if you do it any faster it fails I think.

I thought this was known for years...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCqTW2cbwnU

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #230 on: January 29, 2014, 05:55:15 am »
It slipped past most people, probably because no one had explained exactly how it worked and I guess many thought the Nat shot was still a bit faster, which it probably was until we started holding speed with this strat and timing it more accurately.

Wyst3r

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #231 on: January 29, 2014, 07:39:37 am »
Some do's and dont's for Control discussed in twitch chat today:

When Natalya runs towards the first computer, keep her in sight at all times. You can't gain any time from looking away and then reloading her after a while. In fact, you can lose over 200 frames doing this (if badly timed).

Don't look straight down as Natalya approaches first computer. Again, you can't gain any time this way and if you look down before Natalya starts walking = Instant 50-60 frames lost.

So basicly, always look at Natalya while she's moving.

A good way to gain time though, is to use the TAS strat, where you force Natalya to take a better line to the corner before the computer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKUU2aZEGe4&t=0m16s

(though i wouldn't recommend using backwalking like this, rather stay beside her and use right-strafe only)

I thought this strat would be bad for console but it's actually pretty easy. This strat gains between 5-25 frames, depending on how well you did it. You want to avoid jerky movements from Natalya and get her to simply walk in a straight line as close to the corner as possible. This can be tricky, but not the hardest thing to do. It's very easy to tell when you did it right.

I think this could potentially help alot for 3:57, or anyone going for < 4:00/3:59.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #232 on: January 29, 2014, 08:13:31 am »
(nvm)

I will look into that Goldeneye Setup Editor for a couple of untied strats  :nesquik: That homepage is amazing! Never heard about it before, lol.
http://www.goldeneyevault.com
http://www.goldeneyevault.com/viewfile.php?id=37
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 08:25:59 am by OHMSS »

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #233 on: January 29, 2014, 09:19:24 am »
http://www.goldeneyevault.com
http://www.goldeneyevault.com/viewfile.php?id=37

"Navigate through every level from Goldeneye/PD (including Citadel) visually, to any coordinate
See objects and presets visually "

how to do this?

Wyst3r

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #234 on: January 29, 2014, 10:25:17 am »
After installing and opening GoldeneyeSetupEditorV2.exe:

File->Open Uncompressed->Usetup[InsertLevel]Z

Now go to Edit Setup->Visual Editor

Once your in, press Tab to fly around the level with FPS-like controls.




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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #235 on: January 31, 2014, 07:41:10 am »
I found that site back in 2008, it's truly amazing.
I played a lot of Goldeneye 007 online with custom levels. It's so amazing.
As much cheating as Henning did in GE I don't think he had any time left over to cheat on his GF. - Illu

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Wyst3r

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #236 on: January 31, 2014, 04:33:30 pm »
Originally posted this in the pr topic, but I figured moving it here was more appropriate:

New (Potential??) Cradle/Train timesaver:

The trick is very simple, just press Start right before fadeout (Or just mash quickpauses, not sure what works best). The reason this works is because the timer is temporarily stopped during the short "freeze" you get from pressing Start (i.e. the lag you see when quickpausing). Normally however, this doesn't save anytime because the timer skips ahead afterwards. HOWEVER, appareantly this doesn't apply to levels with timer-based endings, or at least, some of them. So instead what happens is, you press Start, the timer stops, and hopefully you get the fadeout before the game unfreezes, and before the timer has a chance to skip ahead (So end time = time when you paused).

I tested this on Egypt and Aztec as well, but it only lost time there (dunno why really, but the fadeouts didn't seem to happen until after the timer was unfrozen).

Therefor, Cradle and Train seem to be the only levels to which this applies. When timed on emulator, this saves up to ~20 frames (0.33) seconds, i.e. a very significant amount, especially for Cradle 34. The potential problem is that pause-lag seems to be very poorly emulated. Meaning the freeze time might be way longer than on console. I have no way to test this though, since i can't use savestates/memory watching on console. Worst case scenario would be that this saves less time, but how much, i have no idea.

Any ideas on how to test this on console? Maybe gameshark could be helpful if it could show us the timer somehow? I dunno if that's even possible though, since i've never used a gameshark.

Edit: The best method seems to be to simply press Start once before the fadeout, with good timing. It's easy to tell if it worked, because if it didn't, you'll see the start of the pause animation (so assuming you were looking straight down, you're angle will have changed upwards if it failed, or bonds arm might be visible, you want your angle/view to be the same before/after fadeout starts.)

Luke

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #237 on: January 31, 2014, 08:44:24 pm »
these tricks are getting too fucked
LAS

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wheatrich

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #238 on: February 01, 2014, 08:20:45 pm »

Any ideas on how to test this on console? Maybe gameshark could be helpful if it could show us the timer somehow? I dunno if that's even possible though, since i've never used a gameshark.


I think I'm the only one with any GE timer (I did post it on the boards but nobody cared) and it's useless to test for this; it just runs right through the normal ending of the level.

GoldenGreg007

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #239 on: February 02, 2014, 12:15:19 am »
I have no way to test this though, since i can't use savestates/memory watching on console. Worst case scenario would be that this saves less time, but how much, i have no idea.

Any ideas on how to test this on console? Maybe gameshark could be helpful if it could show us the timer somehow? I dunno if that's even possible though, since i've never used a gameshark.

There is a utility that you can use with Gameshark/parallel connection for memory watching, but at least from my experience the whole process is unstable and the game typically freezes soon after turning the "auto refresh" feature on.  The occasional manual refresh works fairly well though, as well as memory exports that potentially hang the game for several minutes depending on the extent of the export. :D

I think I'm the only one with any GE timer (I did post it on the boards but nobody cared) and it's useless to test for this; it just runs right through the normal ending of the level.

Just now saw the post where you provided this code.  It'd be interesting to toy with it some and see if we can make something that's actually useful.

Edit:  Never mind.  After checking this code out some, I understand why the hacker I talked to said to get a timer on screen for the actual mission time would be much more complicated than a GS code.  To break down the code that you posted:

80030AEB 0000 --> Tells the game to display the clock
80030AEF 0001 --> Tells the game to run the displayed clock
8003649B 0001 --> Skips intro cinema and allows movement after finishing the level

Removing the last line makes it a little better, but it still is only going to be displaying the time associated with the on-screen clock which runs independently of the mission time - from the intro cinema all the way through the ending cinema with this code.  It seems like you'd basically need an assembly hack to tie the on-screen time to the mission time, and then the first two lines of your GS code would allow this time to be displayed on the screen (or just hack those in as well while you're at it).  Then of course as you mentioned in your other post, you get into levels that actually use this on-screen timer, and I'm sure that'd be a whole other mess to work out.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 01:30:11 am by GoldenGreg007 »

Wyst3r

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #240 on: February 06, 2014, 09:49:41 am »
Took quite a while to prepare this, mostly because Photoshop took ages to figure out, but at least it's done now:

Depot: Spawn Guards

There are 7 spawn guards in total. Initially, they all wait 20 seconds, starting when the first cinema appears. After 20 seconds have passed, the game checks if Bond is within a "safe area" (see below), if so, the game just waits for Bond to leave that area. Once Bond has touched a non-safe area, the guard's timers are reset and the game now waits X seconds, the value of X being individually set for each guard (see below). Once this timer runs out, the game checks if the guard is dead, and if so, he spawns. Otherwise the game goes back to check if Bond is within a safe area again. Where he will spawn depends on which out of 10 "special areas" Bond last was in (see below). Once a guard has spawned, the script returns to checking if Bond is in a safe area (so the initial 20 seconds only happen the first time around). This whole process is easier visualized through 5 steps:

1: Wait 20 seconds
2. Wait for Bond to not be in a safe area
3. Wait X seconds
4. If guard is currently alive (Dead = Completely faded out), go back to step 2.
5. Spawn guard, then go back to step 2.

The weapons/health/armor for the spawned guards are random according to these probabilities:

31.65%
Weapon = 1x D5k Deutche
Health = 40
Armor = 0

31.25%
Weapon = 1x D5k Deutche
Health = 40
Armor = 10

37.1%
Weapon = 2x D5k Deutche
Health = 40
Armor = 20

The individual timers for each guard are the following:

Guard          Time (X)
#120 seconds
#225 seconds
#330 seconds
#435 seconds
#560 seconds
#6120 seconds
#7150 seconds

To illustrate the safe areas, special areas and the corresponding spawn positions for all 7 guards, i've made some pictures with color codings (It's hard to find 10 good colors :p):

Green = Safe area
Blue = Special Area #1
Magenta = Special Area #2
Purple = Special Area #3
Brown = Special Area #4
Cyan = Special Area #5
Yellow= Special Area #6
White= Special Area #7
Pink= Special Area #8
Orange= Special Area #9
Red= Special Area #10











Note that special area #8 is also a safe area, hence the outlining of pink rather than a highlight. If Bond is within a non-highlighted area, that means guards will spawn according to the last special area Bond was in.

So if Bond stands in the very beginning (the blue highlighted area) for 40 seconds (20 + 20) then the first guard will spawn at the blue dot with a blue "#1" next to it. If he instead ran quickly to a green area before the first 20 seconds had passed, no guards will spawns until Bond has left that area.

I hope this all makes sense.

Edit: I noticed the game doesn't always recognize that Bond entered the pink area (most likely because it's also a safe area, and script wise, that usually takes priority). So the game often uses white spawns instead.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 05:28:51 am by Wyst3r »

bcks

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #241 on: February 06, 2014, 11:00:20 am »
Henrik, have you seen my depot pr?, where I fully watch the cinema, to avoid having to try a train shot, and get the roller door open at the end, but not the train door.
Just curious how low the cinema strat can go and still have him open the roller door. I believe I failed a 50, and many 51's doing that, but that guard wasn't always there or would sometimes warp the roller door.

Wyst3r

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #242 on: February 06, 2014, 12:05:09 pm »
Yeah i remember that strat. As seen in the pictures, only Orange #4/#5 can spawn in the right place, and #5 takes 20+60 seconds = 80 seconds to spawn which i'm guessing is outside the range of a normal 50/51 run, even with cinema. (adding about 12ish seconds??)

So you must have gotten #4, which takes 20+35 = 55 seconds. However, to get this spawn you also have to be within the orange area or past orange area but not yet within red area. So roughly the distance from trainshot->stairs. I looked quickly at a vid and it seemed to take about 2-3 seconds to go through this area.

So depending on if your runs got the spawn at the beginning or the end of this area, the limit to how low it can go should be maximum ~2 seconds lower. If the opening cinema is truly around 12 seconds, then you can reach the stairs earliest at ~43 seconds, not sure how long it takes to finish the level from there.

Edit: Did some precise timings of the cinemas on emulator:

No cinema = 1,56  seconds
Full cinema = 11,55 seconds
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 12:39:22 pm by Wyst3r »

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #243 on: February 06, 2014, 02:43:51 pm »
Thanks for making that Henrik. It will be useful when I try Depot DLTK soon :)



Wyst3r

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #244 on: February 06, 2014, 05:42:12 pm »
I never really understood or tried to look into Illu's strat on this level until just now, and it's quite awesome actually. I only looked at the spawn scripts before, not the guard's scripts, and it turns out there's a line of code that's very useful to us.

Long story short:
1. After a guard spawns, he will run/jog until he's within a certain distance of Bond.
2. If Bond is within a safe area, the script will jump into a second script, that tells the guard to jog until he's even closer to Bond.
3. Once he's done jogging, a third script is entered. This is the one where the guard starts kneeling, which should be very familiar.

The interresting part is that there's only 2 ways the guard can get out of the third script (where he is unable to move anywhere), either the guard notices that Bond fired a bullet, or Bond is more than 500 units of distance away. 500 units is quite alot, if you draw a circle with 500 units as a radius, it will cover most of the level. So in Illu's run, the guards were positioned in the large warehouse, and the 500 unit radius easily covers the mainframe room from there, which prevents the guards from following him.

If you wait even longer, until all 7 guards have reached this area, you might be able to avoid killing any guards when leaving the mainframe area.

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #245 on: February 07, 2014, 11:19:01 am »
Hey guys, I need a little bit of help with warping the door on bunker 1. Is there any kind of specific technique? On other levels, I can warp by switching between particular weapons, but I can't seem to warp bunker 1. This is making me lose a couple of seconds at the end - which is really annoying because I can nail the rest.

I saw Wodahs do an uber warp earlier on twitch (It was like there wasn't a door at all...) and it bugs me that I can't seem to warp it at all :-\

Thanks!
« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 11:41:23 am by MYT »
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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #246 on: February 07, 2014, 11:49:25 am »
warping is much harder on PAL in general, and perhaps especially on Bunker 1.

Illu

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #247 on: February 07, 2014, 03:09:03 pm »
^yep

Just need a good angle, strafing as straight forward as possible into the crack of the door and time the weapon to be switched when you hit the crack.

Creating some lag, by shooting for example (if possible) might be a good idea if finding it too difficult.

Wyst3r

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #248 on: February 08, 2014, 12:13:17 pm »
Some points on Wouter's Depot DLTK strat:

Since you reach the ammo dump safe area in less than 20 seconds, you can spend as much time as you want there. As soon as you leave, the timers for the spawn guards start.

Only the first 4 guards will have a chance to spawn. Normally, the first 3-4 should be brown spawns (pretty sure Wouter's run had all 4 brown), meaning you will get the guard around the turn to the train (Brown #3). The 4th guard is also likely to be a brown spawn and appear in the first alley to the right after leaving the comp room. Being faster here is potentially bad since the 4th spawn could otherwise be cyan, meaning same bad position as Brown #3. This would mean 2 badly placed guards there...

There's also a limit to how fast you can go, since White #4 as well as Orange #3 and #4 are very very bad spawns. An ideal scenario however, would be somewhere inbetween:

You'd need to be fast enough to enter the Cyan area before #3 spawns, i.e. you've got 30 seconds from the moment you exit the ammo dump. Yellow would work too but it's unlikely you'd be that fast. After Cyan #3 spawns, you can easily make it to Yellow area before 5 seconds have passed, you might even have to wait a second here to make sure #4 gets the Yellow spawn, and not White, since that'd be a disaster.

A quick timing of Wouters vid shows that we'd need to save roughly 10 seconds compared to Wouter in the computer room for this scenario to happen. Definately not impossible, but you need a good strat to clear out the guards fast. If you run straight from the ammo dump to the comp room, then you've got roughly 16 seconds to leave comp room from the moment you open the roller door.

Otherwise, dealing with that 1 guard in the end might not be THAT bad. But annoying for sure.

Edit: I think i found a good strat for the computer room, with potential to be TOO fast:

Shoot a rocket towards the right side of the roller door from far away, roughly before the T-junction you came from earlier. Shooting the ride side should make sure that the guard to the right side of the door dies instantly, luring the other 2 guards on the right side, while the left guard has to run into the explosion as he sees the right guard die. This means the left guard at the screen won't see him die and won't be lured (he's slow, so he often survives the next shot).

Now when you reach the roller door, it should already be opening. Shoot another rocket to kill the 2 guards. The only 2 remaining guards now should be to the left of the screen, and to the left near the mainframes. Go on the right side, shoot a rocket into the right mainframe, without alerting the guard by the screen or the drone gun. Now stand back and wait a moment for both guards to die (the screen guard gets alerted when mainframe guard dies, and runs into the explosion). You could take this time to shoot the screen. Now simply grab the key, destroy any remaining mainframes and leave.

When i tested this on emulator, i got some very fast runs, with several hundred frames to spare. So this strat should be doable on console without much problems. Gotta make sure not to go too fast though, since it's a very real possibility.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 12:59:14 pm by Wyst3r »

Wouter Jansen

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Re: The Goldeneye Facts Topic (Speedrunning ONLY!)
« Reply #249 on: February 08, 2014, 04:06:48 pm »
I don't fully understand it all, would love if you could make a detailed video explaining it all as well.

I miss any mention of the guards from the beginning that I run past at the start, often I would encounter 1 or 2 of them on the way back from ammo dump to computer room. My completion was one of few if not the only run where I had a free passage (you can see me looking straight ahead first expecting a guard). If you just come out equipped with RL you can save some time by shooting much earlier, though I didn't think my strat could be improved by 10 seconds for computer room.

I am pretty confident the ending could be a few seconds faster by just passing that guard, going in a straight line to the building and hoping he won't hit instead of going around the container (and hoping the same but much better odds). Odds are probably very low though. I didn't know being too fast could be a problem, I never encountered other guards near the end.
sexy, this