Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas

[Whiteted]

Index
Current progress: page 18 complete, arranged by level
I do still need to do a little tidying up


The Strategy Compendium is an excellent summary of strategies and ideas ranging from misconceptions to out-there TAS strats, which I keep reasonably up-to-date. As such it is a very useful reference, and I won't repeat that here in this index.

Instead I am just setting out to index this messy thread + refer off to a few others threads which otherwise become a little buried. Nonsense posts / debunked ideas are skipped. Since the thread is so old, some of the earlier discussion is superceded (and often corrected) by modern discussion e.g. early tile warp. I skip this too, though some I might clarify are definitely worse. Finally ideas which have become a standard strat such as this mine throw on Jungle or this self-boost on Jungle are skipped.


Dam
Dam SA 3rd alarm door lure by Henrik, pg 5. Following some discussion from Ace, Henrik also suggests luring the guard before so that he doesn't see you and bother you at the end. On pg 10 Henrik also links to further discussion.
Dam 00A mainframe room door lure by Henrik, pg 5, with details here.
Dam Mesh gate lure by Henrik, pg 6.
Dam SA 1-2-4-3 cam order (without a lure by Calle, pg 10.
Dam 00a door before alarm by Illu, pg 13.
TASpap summary: Dam SA/00A Piggyback strat by Whiteted, pg 15.
Dam lookup approaching gate by Tideking, pg 16.
Dam (A) Boss gate lure by Whiteted, pg 19.

Facility
Facility 2.x start + open door by Wodahs, pg 3. Further discussion above, you can't fully build full-speed but can partly, and full-speed is still a thing when forcibly crouched.
Facility double vents boost by Henrik, pg 4.
Facility lab lure (double Doak odds) by Buikema, pg 5. A later post suggests very tight triple-Doak odds, and this could maybe be achieved since you can meet up with this Doak from the other side of the glass.
Facility r-leaned mine idea by Buikema, pg 5. This started a long discussion and recall suggesting this same idea much later - it's not possible 'unfortunately', as Henrik explains later, also shooting down a late kf7 lure idea.
More of a fact - Facility open door being slow sometimes by Henrik, pg 6.
Facility 1 mine ending by Joris, pg 7.
Facility SA/00A "OGDDL" i.e. 1-guard door lure by Whiteted, pg 13.
Facility (A) bathroom mine by Henrik, pg 17.
Facility toilet door lure by Xdax/Kyto, pg 17. There's a hard 1 in 10 RNG aspect to this as discussed lower.

Runway
Runway strat evolution chat by Luge, pg 5.
Direct line to Runway SA battery throw by JL, pg 15. Note that JL doesn't do any "flick right" to throw the nade. And as set out in a later post, he is holding down on the stick to throw the nade slightly behind.


Surface 1
S1 A nade locks by Alka, pg 13. Alka did throw it out as a wild idea, and even in TAS it has a lot of problems.
S1 SA/00A Front GL pickup by Henrik, pg 18.

Bunker 1
Bunker 1 00A start discussion, pg 1.  Initially discussing the 2.3 / 2.4 lure used in the original TAS and my modern one. Henrik raises another possibility which I may well have overlooked in my TAS.
Degenerate B1 A early boost idea by Squirp, pg 2. 0:16 is either without
B1 SA 2.4 + grenade strat by Henrik, pg 4. Utilised by Icy in his 0:18 TAS
The iconic B1 A 2.4 strat by Joris, pg 8.
B1 00a "glass strat" by Whiteted, pg 10.
B1 A left-strafe only by Rhakiath, pg 10. Bit bizarre but there is quite a bit of chat about it. I wasn't a fan.
B1 SA grenade (TAS) strat by Henrik, pg 10. The TAS is by Simon Sternis, Henrik is suggesting changing the ending to use the 2.4 strat.
B1 A/Frig 00/Silo 00 quickpauses by Irie, pg 13. Further discussion of B1 A continued by JL on pg 14.
B1 00A nadeless good / bad cutscenes by Alka, pg 14.
Ace's B1 00A WR glass explanation by Whiteted, pg 18.

Silo
Silo 00a boostage into 2nd room by Joris, pg 7. 0:52 in the video.

Frigate
Frigate 00a "Randy door" by Buikema, pg 5.
Frigate SA single bridge guard lure by Ogran, pg 6. Unlike the now normal phantom lure, only 1 guard is lured out and Ogran puts up with the other.
Frigate SA separate bridge lures by Ogran, pg 7. I do wonder how much trouble the first guard is during the bug throw, since this would remove the laggy phantom lure.
Frigate 2x best escape odds by Whiteted, pg 9. Mainly used on the bridge hostage in various SA/00A/LTK strategies trading ~1s for double completion odds.
Frigate 00a close door before bug throw by Goose, pg 11. Various people hyped this up at the time but as I say in my post below it often does nothing, sometimes is unhelpful, and you should just be backstrafing anyway.
Frigate 00a bug-leaning ideas by Whiteted, pg 12. Also some discussion of SA from Henrik and myself below, though note that this was pre BBBT (bridge bomb before taker) / "PAL strat".
TASpap summary: Frigate A reverse hostages by Whiteted, pg 15.
TASpap summary: Frigate SA "PAL strat" by Whiteted, pg 15.
Frigate A 8 bullets ONLY by Whiteted, pg 15. I'm looking at you Calle
Frigate 00A reverse pipe warp demo by JD, pg 18. Detailed comparison by Seanjohn, and a few thoughts by myself.
Frigate A RTA strat by Irie/Clem, pg 18. This is doing something but I'd still recommend reverse hostages.
Frigate A RTA tute by Whiteted, pg 18. Essentially it does prevent a few Boris trolls but these should be rare if you do the normal strat correctly.

Surface 2
Double duck lean by Randy Buikema, pg 2. Doesn't actually show it landing from way out there which I'm not sure it can.
1st cam last on S2 00a by Whiteted, pg 8 - this isn't a good idea but planted the seed for the snow bank throw.
Finnish window for S2 by Kyto, pg 9.
S2 00A fence cam by Henrik, pg 9.
S2 00A snowback throw by Whiteted, pg 11. Also briefly mentioning nadeless strategy, which I very much overlooked at the time.
S2 SA ?? low 50s strat by Henrik, pg 11. I dunno if this has a good name, but it was widely used to bop Finnish window.
S2 00A alternative fence cam by Yendis, pg 11. Also another idea by Henrik just above.
S2 00A Goose 2-nade strat by Goose, pg 12. Illu and myself below aren't fans, and we are both big snowback throw enjoyers.

Bunker 2
Bunker 2 SA 4th cam doorway shot by Irie, pg 8.
B2 SA lure by Henrik, pg 1 and then improved, pg 2, to the strat used in the WR. Further discussion follows on pg 2. Two questions answered by Henrik, pg 3. Further discussion about the cinemas by Henrik, pg 4. I dunno if this is the most modern take.
Revisiting Simon Sternis' B2 00A TAS strat by Henrik, pg 6. Interestingly "Darkstar" discusses a modified version which he TASes roughly at the end of page 6, and Henrik then describes a consistency problem. Considering myself & Henrik revisited this after better understanding guard routing through sets, I think the problem at this time was they didn't understand the need to be very fast to the tape room. But Simon does seem to have understood this - it's all very confusing.
B2 00A "Simon strat" by Whiteted, pg 14. Soon to be seen in a B2 00A untied, this strat is about 14 years overdue.
B2 00A note by Whiteted, pg 16. I'm not 100% sure but I think the problem was that the double doors outside the safe room were open, which was giving the guard beyond time to back Ace. Here I discuss luring the patrolling guard to turn him back.

Statue
Statue Marc route comparison by Ogran, pg 2. I really need to make a more precise comparison of these - it's on the todo list.

Archives
Archives chat by Buikema, pg 4. Dunno.
Archives r-warp glass ending comparison by Colton.
Archives SA/00A Miskin door lure by Whiteted, pg 16. I feel like I've written it up somewhere else?
Archives watch magnet attract FR by Xdax, pg 17. I didn't even realise you had this gadget lol.

Streets
2nd cinema shooting that surely doesn't help on Streets, pg 2. Spec has a video further down. He claims the shooting at 2:33 helps get the boost at 2:39 but the shooting guard is clearly still just standing in his normal spot. Myth.
Streets PAL vs NTSC by Illu himself, pg 2. I believe PAL is considered the meta for 1:10 following Calle's 1:11.
Two low-damage GL boosts on Streets by Wodahs, pg 3.
Streets 2.4 cinema lure lookup by Ogran, pg 3.
Streets A destroy barricade by Patrik, pg 9. Used by Henrik in his TAS 2 posts below.
Streets A slight cinema cut by Whiteted, pg 10. This has become accepted even for 111.
Streets all difficulties GL 'juggling' by Seanjohn, pg 12.
Streets SA/00A nade + val strafe by Joris, pg 16. I think I saw this mentioned earlier maybe.

Depot
Depot warp on SA - 1s save in TAS by Whiteted, pg 10. This doesn't mean it'll save 1s on console - do not recommend.
Depot A 0:22 discussion by various, pg 12. Essentially it does still seem out of reach.

Depot 00A Rocket shot with <A> example by Ace, pg 17.
Depot SA warp example by Acadie, pg 17. 

Train
Train warped ZMG guard by Illu, pg 6.
Smokey Train SA/00A ending by Whiteted, pg 9. As an alternative to the pause trick. Realistically just worse.
Further Train ending lag testing by Whiteted, pg 15.

Jungle
Nothing

Control
Control SA/00A 1st room alternatives by Henrik, pg 1. Includes one doing all drones last, and one which relies on good death animation luck to lure the furthest guard out. Henrik provides further comments saying that the normal strat is faster but harder. Further comments on Control luring ideas that don't work.
Control glass strat by Henrik, pg 6.
Control OOB theory by Whiteted, pg 8.
Control "Nat angling" by Whiteted, pg 9. Further discussion about still fitting in the "blue door mine throw" follows. Essentially it will result in 1 less limb shot (but not 2). But as per the WR runs, the mine throw can just be done last instead.
Control 2.x start by Dyna, pg 13.


Caverns
Classic spec-shot on Cavs + RTA strat by Spec, pg 3. Icy throws for A-from-above for 00a or just faster line downstairs.
Dual-wield ZMG & timed mines on Caverns by Buikema, pg 4.
Illu's more reliable Caverns SA throw by Wodahs, pg 7.
"No strafe toss" Caverns SA throw on console by Brent, pg 8. Showing an idea that I spent too many paragraphs going over.
Original version of the "wallbang" used in my Caverns SA TAS by Whiteted, pg 8. The AR-33 is used to destroy all the consoles by shooting through a quite specific spot on the floor.
Caverns A miracle nade (1 in 240) by Kyto, pg 13.
TASpap summary: Caverns A 1:00 theory by Whiteted, pg 15.
TASpap summary: Caverns SA A-from-above by Whiteted, pg 15.

Cradle
Agent trev kill + nade on Cradle by Buikema. Theorising for 33 at the time, the issue is switching to a nade after shooting trev is a bottleneck. Modern strat (Trev nade) isn't bottlenecked like this. Henrik bypasses this bottleneck by dual-wielding nade & zmg on pg 3.
Cradle nade-to-the-face + trev nade by Henrik, pg 3.
Cradle drone strat + shoot console for 33 by Buikema, pg 3. Classic 33 theory but superceded by Trev nade as faster + more practical.
Cradle "console magic" pg 4 - very irrel unless you have a golden gun.
Cradle 00A RTA strat by Icy, pg 14.

Aztec
Aztec avoiding the drone hit by Henrik, pg 2.
Fast & slow (aka normal) mainframe strats on Aztec by Henrik, pg 3. The fast one is interesting to me just because it ditches the consistency that you get with mainframe. I don't think it's useful though?
Insane "first two black room guards glass" for Aztec by Henrik, pg 3. Also an idea of hiding behind the right guard who has run to the glass (which is expanded on later, but crouch glass is an obvious better option now.
Modern mainframe lure by Henrik, pg 6. Note that only the 3rd video uses the slow i.e. reliable version.
Pinball mode Aztec Glass warp, pg 7.
Aztec superboost through console by Herppa, pg 10.
Aztec Illu Mainframe consistency notes by Icy, pg 14.
Aztec 00a right console pause by Illu. The idea is to get 1 guard boost and the console boost only.
Aztec superboost console by Acadie, pg 16.

Egypt
Egypt crouch saving 0.35 over middle-of-door by Henrik, pg 1.
TASpap summary: Egypt consistent tile warp by Whiteted, pg 15.
Egypt double warp by Whiteted, pg 16.

N/A
Loading a level before Frig/B1/Silo discussion by Seanjohn with myself, pg 9. You can affect the "load distance" and so potentially reduce lag. Depot is a popular choice but I still just love to meme on this strat.
Further "load Depot" discussion by Seanjohn, pg 14. Nice sensible post by Henrik. Further discussion follows.
"The turn lean" by Buikema, pg 2. As discussed after, this is just the effect of the r-aimer being pushed to the side, which effects distance.
"The halfie lean" by Buikema. Again I don't think this is a revelation since when you bring up the r-aimer shouldn't matter, just when you press z relative to c-left.
Henrik <3 pg 3.
Summary of intro animation effects by Whiteted, pg 7.
Losing my rag with Sterling by Whiteted, pg 13. The ensuing conversation is some fun forum fighting.
R-lean last-gasp endings by Perceptor, pg 14. Note my response immediately below.

[Aztec Exemplar]

I think Karl made a similar thread back when he found the new B2 strat however that's probably on page 5 or something now. 

Really good stuff though, hopefully we can see some untieds coming from this. 

[Wyst3r]

Been alot of new strat stuff lately and no dedicated place to discuss them/ask questions (i'd rather keep the facts topic related to facts only,) so i figured a new topic might be in order.

I was experimenting with beginning strats on Control SA/00A today and came across this:

(This vid is just a proof-of-concept, obviously you can go much much faster)

In case you didn't notice, i managed to kill the far guard (the one who stands around the corner) without going anywhere near him. The trick is that the death of the 2nd farthest guard can sometimes lure the far guard, if the death animation throws him backwards, so he can be seen around the corner. The animations that can do this are:

#2
#4
#9
#10
#12
#15

These don't guarantee he'll be lured though, and i think it's because there are 2 versions of each, mirroring each other. So getting the "left" version or the "right" version might be the key.

I also played around with another strat, the same that i got 4:13 with:

As you can see, it's quite fast since i make it back to elevator without re-opening it. The point here is, i usually suck at the beginning and can't get anywhere near this kind of speed with wr strat yet. (very few poeple can) So this might be a good alternative. You can save some time by killing first 3 guard in a single PP7 clip too. Not sure how close to wr speed this can get.

Here's the 4:13 run too:

Lost a bunch of time since i was slow and elevator closed on Nat.



Another beginning strat which fairly easy to do and very fast:

[RWG]

Wow that strat actually does seem really good.  Crushing the lift close without even closing and reopening it.

Ace will prob get 355/400/400 soon.

[Wodahs-Reklaw]

Its not super optimal but its good for getting sub 4:10 starts from my noobie point of view. Something I should use

[SimThreat]

With that last control strat do you ever get hit by drones? How consistent do you get it. Also why you not get good time yet with that start.

[Illu]

James you're hurt!

That would be a cool way to get a PR, getting hit in the first room, who knows maybe it changes the storyline a bit and Nat finishes protect faster  

[RWG]

LOL imagine if taking damage in the first room changed her script so she only took 7500 frames to complete B instead of 8500.

[Time was untied when set.]

You can get way faster beginnings than that the normal way, though...

[SimThreat]

Dave is just jealous because he didn't find the strat.

[RWG]

Yeah but now "bad players" ranked between 4th and 8th will be able to cake sub 4:10 SA and the top 3 will get very mad.

[Time was untied when set.]

 

[Aztec Exemplar]

They'll be mad but they still won't do anything about it. The only way to make them play is for me to get 359 on Control SA/00a. Give me 47+ years.

[Wyst3r]

You can get way faster beginnings than that the normal way, though...

Well, most poeple don't have those human TAS skillz But yeah, the wr strat can be done insanely fast, it's just very hard to do so for most poeple. It's much more skill based than my strat.

With that last control strat do you ever get hit by drones? How consistent do you get it.

It's very common to get hit by the first drone once after killing first guard (should be expected). Other than that, it's mostly based on your own aim-skills and a bit of luck with the guards not charging at you. I often make it back as the elevator closes, but that's mostly because i fucked up the aiming and failed to kill a guard quickly.

Also why you not get good time yet with that start.

I've been playing around with alot of beginning strats and haven't used this one for very long. In the run in my video, i got trolled at the protect, otherwise i probably would've had a sweet time now.

[Illu]

couple ideas for control:

Shoot somewhere when running to protect, or beginning area, in order to alert some guards to open doors (don't know if possible).

Back up sooner when getting Nat, her message can still pop out but you might risk her not seeing you (don't know if this saves time.

Also didn't know or might have forgot that if you get really injured in the first area then Nat replies something along the lines of: "oh dear that didn't go to well at all" :P

[Wyst3r]

Unfortunately neither of those ideas are possible/save time. (most guards are deaf)

I tried on several occasions recently to make guards open doors. Some of the stuff i tried:

- Luring a guard during cinema from drone room with 2.3. He actually will open the first brown door before "i'm coming, james" but it'll close long before you get there.

- Luring a guard from the 2nd floor of protection area from the beginning (by shooting in a corner). The distance to the guard is actually not that far, but still too much appareantly.

- Throwing a mine on the brown door after crate area, killing some guards in the hopes of luring the guard standing near the blue door, leading to the end. He can be lured it seems, but the pathfinding is wierd around that door and he will favor warping the brown door, rather than opening the last blue door for us.

- Throwing a mine near the first blue door, to kill one of the guards and lure the other one to open the door for us. Too slow + Can't warp because guards in the way + Bond will have to run through the explosion.

So yeah, no hopes here really.

[OHMSS]

So people did always blow up the right table because it is in Natalya's way when she leaves. Wouldn't it be a good idea to destroy it earlier during the "I'm coming, James!" lure so she takes a better path from the stairs to the computer (so also on her way there, not only the leave)? This seems very viable with the new strat.

EDIT:
Recorded both cases and with a destroyed table she was 1 PAL frame = 0.04s faster (bottom of stairs -> The Goldeneye is set to fire on London!). Doesn't mean much with such a video measurement. Her path barely changed.

[Wyst3r]

Yeah i think i tested it at some point and didn't measure any significant difference. Dunno if it's any different on the way back (kinda doubt it).

[Infected Mind]

longshot:

if you can get a guard to open that first room brown door from the drone room lure, can you skip the guards and get behind it? will they ever open it and chase you out?

[flukey lukey]

force that brown door open, run to it and close/ open it from behind, kill guards and get nat while door stays open..?

[RWG]

I messed around with some stuff on slow animation tonight;

1) I blocked Natalya's path from the lift to the first computer.  If you block her long enough (easy to do on slow mo) then BOTH messages appear at the same time.  ie: "Hmm the blast door" etc shows and the door opens, and then "Got one open!" appears a few frames later.

On normal mode however, this doesn't seem to work.  I put on a lot of health on 007 mode and just shot Natalya to delay her for like 40+ seconds, but the messages did not appear at the same time.  Weird.

2) With slow mo on, I mashed B at the brown door to the "last" mainframe while Natalya was running down the stairs to the computer.  As soon as she said "The Goldeneye is set to fire on London!" the door opened, and she didn't yell at me for being too far away.

With slow mo off, this doesn't work.  She yells at you for being too far away BEFORE she says "The GE set to fire on London."

These differences were really weird.  I think we all need to grind a bunch of stuff like this until something clicks.

I also tried;

- blowing up the drone room mf from "upstairs" on the middle floor.  You can throw the mine through the rock wall but it seems to go nowhere.  It lands in unloaded no man's land like when you throw a grenade to a different level on Cradle.

- doing the protect from UPSTAIRS on the top floor.  There is at least one spot on the right side, near where the last 2 panes of glass join, where you are close enough to do it.

[Wyst3r]

With slow mo off, this doesn't work.  She yells at you for being too far away BEFORE she says "The GE set to fire on London."

"The GE set to fire on London" message is animation based, so with Slo-mo on this would be delayed quite a bit.

- blowing up the drone room mf from "upstairs" on the middle floor.  You can throw the mine through the rock wall but it seems to go nowhere.  It lands in unloaded no man's land like when you throw a grenade to a different level on Cradle.

I've spent quite a bit of time trying to find a throw like that. Like you said though, doesn't work.

- doing the protect from UPSTAIRS on the top floor.  There is at least one spot on the right side, near where the last 2 panes of glass join, where you are close enough to do it.

Actually if you duck, then it's possible to stay in many different spots upstairs, for example at the glass next to the stairs or the glass next to the BA.

[Wouter Jansen]

- doing the protect from UPSTAIRS on the top floor.  There is at least one spot on the right side, near where the last 2 panes of glass join, where you are close enough to do it.

Actually if you duck, then it's possible to stay in many different spots upstairs, for example at the glass next to the stairs or the glass next to the BA.

Is this useable to make DLTK protect easier/consistent?

[Wyst3r]

No, it's a terrible idea to be there because black hat guards will always find you (and kill you). Plus they can spawn up there. Also it'd be near impossible to protect Nat.

[Wyst3r]

yeah bcks that's not a bad idea, but it should go in the strats thread or another thread.

Really stupid idea.
With the new caverns sa mine over the wall strat, any chance that works with modems?
frigate or possibly dam 00 from mainframe area.

I know this will get shot down very quickly, but I never seen anybody suggest or mention if it works for modems.

Bumping this topic.

I tested the plastique's quickly on Silo 00A and while it was possible to throw a plastique through a door and into the rooms, the game didn't register them as completing the objective. I'd be very surprised if bugs/modems worked any differently.

Also something i noticed a while back, if the Frigate bug lands on the helicopter while the helicopter itself is unloaded, it'll land on it's collision box, not the helicopter itself. (so it'll float in midair). This does not complete the objective.

[Jimbo]

An idea I've always wanted to try but am not good enough to execute it properly:

Use 2.x at the beginning of Bunker 1 00A. A guard will open the first two doors for you, and you can switch back to 1.2 at your first pause by Boris? Maybe a GC stick is ideal here so you don't have to CC anything.

[Shadow]

Curious what that would save, since you have to open the door before you can go anywhere at full-speed right? Or can you open the door in the cutscene? By shooting bullets and luring a guard?

[Jimbo]

Getting the cinema where a guard is coming out of MF room lets you lure that guard into opening the first 2 doors for you...

[OHMSS]

Curious what that would save, since you have to open the door before you can go anywhere at full-speed right? Or can you open the door in the cutscene? By shooting bullets and luring a guard?

As usual, the answer is: Watch the TAS

IIRC this strat was discussed a while ago and there was some major problem with it like the guard being too slow or blocking you almost every time or something, not sure. And ofc you'd have to wait for the right cinema on a level that is horrible already.

Something else: On Dam 00A, is there really no feasible way to lure a guard to open the door to the mainframe room to save a sec? Like shooting a full Kf7 clip near the last crates (can't test anything myself atm)?

[Shadow]

Thanks for the link. I imagine waiting for the right-cinema, a good start, AND a grenade would be mind-numbing. Degeneracy at its best

[Wyst3r]

The guard strat would be too inconsistent i'm fairly sure? Getting past him is difficult and then you gotta wait out the cinema as well. Add to that grenade odds and you've got yourself a nice grind

It's worth comparing with the most up-to-date TAS. This strat is 23 frames slower in this case (0.38333 seconds). (Note: This TAS aims for real-time, not in-game time)

Compared to the normal strat, it can save up to 0.5 seconds. Downside being you need to headshot the guard running for the alarm, and you'll alert 2 more guards.

Something else: On Dam 00A, is there really no feasible way to lure a guard to open the door to the mainframe room to save a sec? Like shooting a full Kf7 clip near the last crates (can't test anything myself atm)?

I remember trying a bunch of different methods a few years ago, but it turned out to be impossible to lure the guards in a good way.

[bcks]

yeah bcks that's not a bad idea, but it should go in the strats thread or another thread.

Really stupid idea.
With the new caverns sa mine over the wall strat, any chance that works with modems?
frigate or possibly dam 00 from mainframe area.

I know this will get shot down very quickly, but I never seen anybody suggest or mention if it works for modems.

Bumping this topic.

I tested the plastique's quickly on Silo 00A and while it was possible to throw a plastique through a door and into the rooms, the game didn't register them as completing the objective. I'd be very surprised if bugs/modems worked any differently.

Also something i noticed a while back, if the Frigate bug lands on the helicopter while the helicopter itself is unloaded, it'll land on it's collision box, not the helicopter itself. (so it'll float in midair). This does not complete the objective.

Well, you tested the afterthought ideas, can you test dam 00 from below?(the idea, why I originally posted) It might yield different results then a heli. Caverns sa, made me think, what if there was a way to keep the dam 00 ceiling unloaded, and chuck the modem up, instead of pausing at the gate, and before tagging the mainframe.

[OHMSS]

^ So instead of doing a safe pause / easy throw, you want to pause in the basement and do an insanely hard throw while being shot at by five guards to save little to no time?

[RWG]

The Tier 1 relevant players all tested the "Dam 00A from below" strat for a good 30-40 minutes one night on I think Luke's stream.

[bcks]

^ So instead of doing a safe pause / easy throw, you want to pause in the basement and do an insanely hard throw while being shot at by five guards to save little to no time?

Mainly was just wondering if it was possible, based on the new strat for caverns sa, and if it might save time.(if possible)
You still gotta wait the final door opening, before mainframe too, so pausing for modem there, would be optimal.

Ryan, Did henrik test it on tas?

[Icy]

The modem throw is definitely possible, but it would save minimal time and it's not really realistic to do. I got a few to seemingly stick on the screen using Infinite Ammo, but I'm not sure if it's properly loaded for it to actually work. The objective cannot go from failed to complete, so to tell if it actually completes requires getting it on the first try.

This is the left/right angle you want to throw it at though. For visual reference, align the top of your screen to have a 1/3 slope across the top row: https://i.imgur.com/tklwlhw.png

Also from down there, you can throw a grenade to blow up the alarm, but I don't think there are any guards that drop grenades on Dam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_imXqsaFbZw

[Illu]

so like, might aswell post this here too:

http://www.twitch.tv/illudude/c/4912876

running Xenia 00A, I guess everyone knows it's possible, it's just ridic to pull off :P but yea it did happen, too bad I failed the ladder warp by switching weapons a frame or so too early

[Wyst3r]

I came up with an experiment today to figure out how much the pause trick can save on console. When testing on emulator, i noticed that if you have a weapon such as the Watch Laser out, and then pause, the timer will at one point "jump". The length of this jump seems to correspond almost exactly with the length of the pause-lag and therefor also the potential time saved by using the pause trick. So i tested this at the end of PAL Train i got the following result:

Possible time save using the pause-trick seems to be ~0.2 seconds. (+- 0.05'ish seconds probably)

(Note: Emulator saves around 0.35 - 0.40 seconds)

I don't know what kind of factors could affect this value, if any. Probably worth testing on NTSC as well (can't do this myself though, since my DVD recorder doesn't handle NTSC well). Other levels with on-screen timers would be nice to test as well (most important of all, Cradle).

[trippyc]

hey guys,im new to the forum and goldeneye speedrunning. my best time for agent is about 45 minutes,what are some basic knowledge things i can do to improve my times?

[Wyst3r]

Your question would probably fit better in this topic:

http://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=14793.0

[Wyst3r]

Saved 23 frames in this case (0.383333 seconds). Might've been more if I had let go of speed/started backstrafing with old strat.

[Wyst3r]

Roughly 21 frames faster (0.35 seconds).

Warping would still the best method obviously.

[Aztec Exemplar]

Was actually sorta doing that on stream last night. Might start doing it depending on how hard it is.

[Wyst3r]

Who said anything about a floor pattern? 

28 frames (0.4666667 seconds) saved on this one. I've been able to do this 3 runs in a row on console, and had pretty good consistency. However, only during the first 15 min or so of the session, after that i can't seem to get it at all for like an hour.

Did have a great run with this strat where i managed a perfect hit on the last baron in the chest, but he decided to completely ignore it and survive... I'm not sure if i'll continue using this strat or not.

Dunno if this strat is better than warp strat for 44. Warp is a bit faster for sure, but i haven't checked by how much. At least it's a new TAS strat.

Sidenote: I found like 5 other ways of doing the GG room without following the regular floor pattern. None useful for speedruns though. Might make a vid of them for fun though.

[Boss]

Very nice find once again.

[Wyst3r]

NOTE: It's probably better to do 4th cam before documents.

The 10-second rule for guard lures means if we shoot in roughly the same spot as 00A, or slightly closer, he will (hopefully) get there quick enough so that he can continue his run. With some more luck, he will be just outside the CCTV tape room when we get there. This is all kinda random though (because other guards might interfere), and he might end up too fast, or too slow.

Still not sure how this compares to old strat in terms of speed. I think it's a few second faster but it's really hard to tell since i'm completely unable to fail 44's with either strat, no matter how many cameras i skip If Marc would be willing to test this, i'm sure he could tell pretty quickly if it was faster or not.

[Illu]

Wow, if this works it would make the level even more troll so 44 is probably still gonna be difficult even if this would save 2 sec or whatever, nice find anyways.

[DYM]

Clemens will shoot down this strat ASAP, but let's see his reaction when I get 0:42 with it in 2016.

[Wyst3r]

Wow, if this works it would make the level even more troll so 44 is probably still gonna be difficult even if this would save 2 sec or whatever, nice find anyways.

The camera route should be quite a bit easier though, so it might not be as bad as you think. Still, i'm not sure how bad the clipboard guard odds are.

[flukey lukey]

that looked like a somewhat okay run and was 48

looks slower if anything awesome idea and find though... would be ridic if i ends up being the WR strat