Author Topic: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas  (Read 45330 times)

Wyst3r

  • Posts: 4164
  • Train Strat Master
    • Henrik
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #100 on: February 01, 2016, 03:35:28 pm »
Quote
However for whatever reason once boosts come into play PAL seems to be able to get 1:11 speed just as easily if not easier than NTSC. So what I think is that either PAL boosts save more than boosts on NTSC or when there's more lag NTSC loses speed compared to PAL, like lag from boosting with GL for example.

I think there's pretty much a consensus around the fact that PAL has a more stable framerate than NTSC. What that means is that when the game lags alot, you're gonna have a better framerate on PAL. However, it's a double-edge sword, and if you have a fast framerate, PAL will run slower than NTSC, since it's trying to stay in the middleground.

Quote
Also forgot to mention auto aim kicks in a bit slower on PAL but it's not a big deal, pretty minor.

Yeah, this becomes alot more obvious on levels like Control.

Wodahs-Reklaw

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 809
    • Wodahs
    • GE
    • twitch
    • 2017RankingsDev
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #101 on: March 04, 2016, 04:02:58 am »
Some alternative lower damage boosts with the gl on streets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxvQM4dL-I0&feature=youtu.be

they are probably too hard to do consistantly for 111 but just wanted to put that theory out there.
Daniel Wodahs-Relklaw Coelho

Wyst3r

  • Posts: 4164
  • Train Strat Master
    • Henrik
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #102 on: March 04, 2016, 03:28:29 pm »
Guard got stuck in the mainframe again? No worries:


Should be roughly as fast as the WR strat (not counting quickpauses). Odds are probably pretty bad though?


Around 4 seconds slower than WR strat (not counting quickpauses). Think the odds are good however.

Also made alternative versions of these videos showing a prototype Lua map:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E80LCF4RHWw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXJvg56M3LU

Found these strats a couple of years ago. Though i found the "Henrik strat" around the same time and didn't bother posting about these.

Discombobulator

  • Posts: 182
  • Randy Buikema
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #103 on: March 16, 2016, 03:58:07 am »
After some messing around in 2.4 on streets with the three guard cutscene, I found that if you can get a shot off as early as possible, basically the first frame that you can shoot during the cutscene, it's possible for the guard to be lured to a prime boosting spot, at the corner right after the switch. This run had the best boost of any I have gotten thus far.

https://www.twitch.tv/discombobulator37/v/54733230?t=62m15s

sorry about having to link to a specific time in the vod, I'm having trouble highlighting/exporting.

Wouter Jansen

  • Posts: 8968
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
    • 2014RankingsDev
    • 2015RankingsDev
    • 2016RankingsDev
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #104 on: March 17, 2016, 05:10:58 am »
nice idea!
sexy, this

Discombobulator

  • Posts: 182
  • Randy Buikema
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #105 on: March 18, 2016, 06:50:46 am »
So yeah, was toying around with a different way to r-lean a grenade, and had a light bulb moment with a different way to r-lean a mine. It applies directly to a new 46 strat for s2 agent.  basically, instead of the current button combination of "R, Z, c-left", you do "Z, R, C-left"

This has an interesting affect on the throw. it basically makes the throw go farther than a single lean, but not as far as a double lean, so I guess we've called it a halfie lean.

Now, although it seems counter-intuitive that throwing the mine less far would make for a better s2 agent strat, it's actually about where you throw it that matters. There's a very steep slope right after you pass the last cabin before the end, and for the longest time I've tried to make a throw work from that spot. the issue when throwing from such a steep slope, is that the mine actually travels too far. Well, enter the halfie. basically makes the throw perfectly possible, I think. I haven't actually hit the throw yet, but I've gotten close enough to know it's possible.

It's really late, and highlighting for me doesn't work at all on twitch, so here's my best effort at describing some of the visual cues, and where to throw from etc from a stream I did of it last night:

https://www.twitch.tv/discombobulator37/v/55112204?t=15m10s

It's a bit convoluted, but whatever. I've only figured this out today, and have about 4 hours experience, which is really not much.

46 pace is easier than the old duck lean strat, but it's still pretty tight. I'll try to work things out better tomorrow, see if I can hammer out the details better. Either that, or a bunch of people will have 46 when I wake up.

Discombobulator

  • Posts: 182
  • Randy Buikema
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #106 on: March 20, 2016, 06:31:15 pm »
well, I have a new strat for cradle.......

I had forgotten about the strat that twiii and I played around with where you bounce a nade off of the wall as you exit the hut, which blows up the console.  Back when we were thinking about it, the drone strat didn't exist, so our two options to do the strat were either "agent trev kill + nade" or "double nade."

Well, you should be "excited" to hear that 33 pace isn't too bad.....if you do the drone strat + nade off the wall.

enjoy

404

  • Posts: 2079
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #107 on: March 20, 2016, 07:01:47 pm »
1/50 and 1/200 (or whatever) tricks in the same run? Sounds like the TAS strat of dropping a nade for Trev, Console, and maybe a boost is still more viable than this.

Btw, i think with a nade in stock after a successful drone kill, you could even destroy the console by throwing a cooked nade from below on the catwalk

JustinDT

  • Posts: 173
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #108 on: March 20, 2016, 07:14:32 pm »
reminder that the drone kill strat requires you to shoot trev on A/SA/00, so i dont think you'd have enough time to shoot him in the hut, switch to nade and throw it while still being on 33 pace

Discombobulator

  • Posts: 182
  • Randy Buikema
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #109 on: March 20, 2016, 07:45:13 pm »
I mean, the strat is more of a troll than anything, but 33 is doable. you have to hug the right wall as you travel through the hut, because it takes a while to pull out the nade. Also, just for reference, you can't blow up the console from anywhere besides the hut basically. nades unload as soon as you throw them throw the wall or floor or ceiling or whatever. 

Just wanted to mention this strat, because if you're playing for 34, you might as well try to yolo a 33 if you get a rare nade.

wheatrich

  • Posts: 2858
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #110 on: March 20, 2016, 08:30:28 pm »
There's probably also an extremely, extremely, extremely rare chance a guard blows up that console for you with his own thrown nade in there.  (yes, I've seen this)  Grinding for that and completing a run might be equivalent to like gears of war seriously achievement grinds though.

Time was untied when set.

  • Posts: 5268
  • Dat clutchness
    • Clemens
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #111 on: March 20, 2016, 08:49:54 pm »
Youd have 2 chances for 33. You either do drone kill and bounce a nade or you just kill trev, run through and hope somehow the console blows up. I dont think it would be that bad. Caverns sa is worse probably.
teh peoples champ

Discombobulator

  • Posts: 182
  • Randy Buikema
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #112 on: March 20, 2016, 11:56:33 pm »
Here's a vid showing how I see it working. Better strats are likely for some of this, but this shows how I do the throw, how you get backed by the drone every time, and what a fast pace is like.

Note: pulling out the nade is very difficult with the huge amount of lag, which is why I hug the right wall so hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyB66xJeeRM&feature=youtu.be

Icy

  • Posts: 1907
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
    • 2014SilverStar
    • 2015SilverStar
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #113 on: March 21, 2016, 03:06:30 pm »
Discovered (?), brought up, and actually executed by Wodahs, he's been using 2.X on Facility. Naturally what most people would think is that because you crouch immediately, 2.X does nothing, but this is in fact false! A small detail on how full speed works: when you tap L or R, you immediately lose full speed, but crouching itself does not get rid of it! So 2.X works just as well as always.

Now there are some details that are harder to figure out with how the mechanics work. Can you build up full speed in crouch? Is it affected by when before/after you stand? Because in the case where you cannot build full speed while crouched, on 1.2, you would be slow through the vents but you're also not building speed either, so then you'd be slow after them until you're passed the stairs (building up full speed normally). With 2.X, you are full speed the whole time, which would save a ton of time. Can someone figure out how this works because I couldn't. :nesquik:

Supposing it works in the best case favoring 2.X, we'd also require proper cutscene timing and adjustments in our actual speed to make sure open door pace still works properly. Maybe there's a sweetspot or possibly it's optimal to briefly start slowly?

Randy? Henrik?

Wyst3r

  • Posts: 4164
  • Train Strat Master
    • Henrik
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #114 on: March 21, 2016, 03:58:44 pm »
Yeah we've used 2.x in TAS'es since forever so that's well known. If i'm not remembering things totally wrong, crouching just scales your speed down, and still allows you to accelerate to "full speed". So 2.x makes you dash through the vents faster. You can see it used in the 41 TAS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74q4oIQPggU

Problem with open door pace is that you can't gain back any time lost from cinema watching with 2.x. You only gain .3 in acceleration, compared to a few seconds lost from cinema watching, so you'll always be behind normal runs (though there might be a way to cut the cinema earlier and still gain a little bit of time). The only way for it to work is if you could either be fast enough to make the open door anyway (which probably isn't possible?), or find a later guard cycle. Unfortunately i have no idea what the cycles look like, and i assume that has been tested before?

Off topic: Got another Aztec strat i thought i'd share, plus an idea for a potential strat which would be crazy fast if it worked but doesn't seem possible. Came up with these a couple of years ago but for whatever reason decided to test them again now. Probably useless, but it's at least good to have them documented somewhere.

This first strat is confirmed to work and is pretty close speedwise to the WR strat (but probably a little slower in general). The odds of glass opening and difficulty of the strat might not be the best either? Hard to tell without proper testing on console (plus the WR strat kinda sucks as well). Anyway:

1. As you approach the black room door, fire the AR33 to lure the 2 guards.
2. Open the door when you reach it, but immediately go back and hide on the left/right side of the opening.
3. Either run past the guards when they are through the door, or shoot them in the legs when they see you. Either way, you need the slowest animations on both of them. And there are multiple versions of the leg damage animations, some of which are too fast.
4. Run into the black room, and close the door behind you. Get to the glass ASAP, though you might wanna kill a guard as you approach it.
5. Stand at the glass for a second or two at most, and try to kill the remaining guards.
6. Hide behind the console or the mainframe (if it's open), and pause there as you wait for the guards to reach the glass.
7. If you hid behind the console, use it to open the mainframe before you leave for the glass.

As for the second idea:

If you shoot near the guard on the far right in the black room, he'll have a small chance to run straight to the glass and stop there. My idea was to hide behind him and let the guard on the left run towards you, opening the glass in the process (wodahs has a vid somewhere of getting the glass open this way). Unfortunately, the guard seems to see Bond no matter how much you try to hide.

A better method perhaps is to shoot through the mainframe to lure that guard (you have to be careful not to stand too close to the glass guard, or he'll hear it), and then quickly move towards the glass guard (it generally takes a second or so for the guard behind the mainframe to start moving after the shot). Unfortunately, you can't occupy the same position as the glass guard, so they won't compete much for it. Plus, the glass guard doesn't seem to run quite close enough to the glass for the other guard to get fully blocked.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 04:22:16 pm by Wyst3r »

Wodahs-Reklaw

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 809
    • Wodahs
    • GE
    • twitch
    • 2017RankingsDev
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #115 on: March 21, 2016, 04:07:22 pm »
I can confirm that you can time the cinema to get a speed boost that saves time over 1.2 and barely make open door pace. The more you wait the more insane the start needs to be however and I have not spent enough time figuring out the exact timing.
Daniel Wodahs-Relklaw Coelho

Ogran

  • Posts: 360
  • Lookup
    • Ogran
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
    • 2014RankingsDev
    • 2015RankingsDev
    • 2016RankingsDev
    • 2017RankingsDev
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #116 on: March 21, 2016, 06:46:23 pm »
After some messing around in 2.4 on streets with the three guard cutscene, I found that if you can get a shot off as early as possible, basically the first frame that you can shoot during the cutscene, it's possible for the guard to be lured to a prime boosting spot, at the corner right after the switch.

Adding onto this, if you lookup at around 5:58:50 (just after the switch) it makes the guard take a more direct path to you and puts him in a pretty good spot, closer than what you'd get if you didn't peek up - super similar to the agent 37 lookup.

Here's a 155 with it in action (skip to 1:00):

I'm getting much better consistency with this boost than when he is further away: almost got another 155 with it straight after.
Here in and of the dark, our city, it's streets and walls
Here we live, we are, inside our homes and malls

Wyst3r

  • Posts: 4164
  • Train Strat Master
    • Henrik
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #117 on: March 25, 2016, 06:31:20 am »
Quote
As for the second idea:

If you shoot near the guard on the far right in the black room, he'll have a small chance to run straight to the glass and stop there. My idea was to hide behind him and let the guard on the left run towards you, opening the glass in the process (wodahs has a vid somewhere of getting the glass open this way). Unfortunately, the guard seems to see Bond no matter how much you try to hide.

A better method perhaps is to shoot through the mainframe to lure that guard (you have to be careful not to stand too close to the glass guard, or he'll hear it), and then quickly move towards the glass guard (it generally takes a second or so for the guard behind the mainframe to start moving after the shot). Unfortunately, you can't occupy the same position as the glass guard, so they won't compete much for it. Plus, the glass guard doesn't seem to run quite close enough to the glass for the other guard to get fully blocked.

Found a way to fix the main issues with this strat, by shooting near the far right guard twice, instead of once. Got this close to making it work:


I think the strat would save a couple of seconds of WR strat if it worked, but unfortunately the guard just doesn't seem willing to open the glass. Of course, even if it did work, there would still be some big issues left to solve, to make it viable on console runs.

Discombobulator

  • Posts: 182
  • Randy Buikema
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #118 on: March 26, 2016, 08:57:35 pm »
Just wanted to throw this out there. On stream today I was randomly playing runway SA on jap, and was getting absurd amounts of gun boosts. Back when I was playing for 22, getting a five boost run was rare, and basically meant 22.

Now, the guards were doing the charging animation all the damn time. I had tons of 5-6 boost runs where I only used 2 nade boosts.

I should note, that when I went back to english, I had some of the same results, so I'm not sure if it's due to jap, or maybe how I use lookup or something.

Most of the time, previously, when I got a guard boost, it was from the first guard on the left. Rarely I'd get one at the end.

I recorded for 30 minutes and had:

3 gun boosts: 1
2 gun boosts: 9
1 gun boost: 4

Here's a vid with all of those boosts, starting with 3 gun, then 2 gun, then 1 gun:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG5LROff_Sk&feature=youtu.be

Basically, if you can do the door grenade, than one grenade after, 10 of those runs were 22 "viable."

The dream is to have the second guard charge, he tends to give one boost before the drone boost, and one boost afterwards.

Wyst3r

  • Posts: 4164
  • Train Strat Master
    • Henrik
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #119 on: March 28, 2016, 08:06:10 am »
Cradle 33 ideas:




Strat #1 is probably a guaranteed 33 and quite simple to execute as well (just make sure you don't throw the nade into the drone flames :v)? You basically just need the planets to align and get the nade + drone kill combo.

Discombobulator

  • Posts: 182
  • Randy Buikema
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #120 on: March 28, 2016, 03:04:08 pm »
brilliant stuff. love the strat. A while back I had been trying to figure out which levels could benefit from the mix/match weapons. I was pretty sure the third strat could work, trying it a couple days ago, but when doing runs, trev just doesn't cooperate. He loves to be slow out of the hut, and also to run around in circles when you first tag him.  That first strat though, I'm looking forward to trying it

Also, just for reference with 22 runway, it appears it's not so much JAP that's giving an edge, but just a simple amount of lookup to lure the second guard on the left.  It's become exceptionally easy to get two gun boosts on the level, so if you can do one grenade at the hut, then quickly juggle two grenades (or even just do a lookdown 4 second timing for one grenade), getting 22 pace should be just as easy, if not EASIER than 22 agent (calling it now).

I've been asked this question a lot: How do you do the battery throw? I guess people don't want to watch a 70 minute runway SA tutorial, so here's how I do it: I prime the nade slightly after I start hearing the drone shooting. if you get boosted early by the second guard, the priming will happen pretty much right after, so be ready for that.  After I've primed, I count 1...2...turn slightly, and let the drone boost the nade to the battery. try to turn as late as possible, and make sure you sharply turn back to the left, as to not veer off of optimal strafe line for too long.  It's hard for me to tell you how far to turn, but if you do 10 tries, by the end of the 10th you should understand it pretty well.

One other note about the battery throw. The less health you have, the better chances you have that the drone will boost you slightly later. If you have full health, the drone will boost you early, if you have very little health, it will boost you slightly later than you might expect. I don't know why this happens, I've probably been told before, but that's just something I learned a little while back from Boss. Same concept happens on aztec in the drone room. If you have full health and full body armor, you're probably going to die, but if you have significantly less health, you're probably going to live, simply because the drones/guards seem to not be able to hit you as often.

I guess to add one more note while I'm thinking about it. One big thing to make sure you're doing correctly. Make sure that the first nade you throw (door boost after you exit hut) is placed correctly. Hotshott tucks the nade in the corner of the building, but I'd argue that it is not only a mediocre boost, but it pushes you sideways past the building, losing even more time.  Luke's and Michael's nade placement are what you want to strive for, and make sure you are ready to sharply turn that corner after the hut. I think a lot of people get agent 22 once they've started to make a sharp turn.

that was a lot more text than I meant it to be, but I did get quite a few questions about it yesterday, and that's great. Keep the questions rolling in.  I'm going to make the bold statement: 22 runway SA pace is easier than 22 runway agent pace.  instead of having to do a triple juggle AND a double juggle, you only have to do a double juggle (or no juggle) and you're good to go, as long as you get two gun boosts.  Getting a double juggle and two gun boosts is pretty easy in comparison to a triple juggle and double juggle.

edit: I forgot to mention that if you're going to learn the double juggle for SA, make sure you are able to throw the two grenades early enough so that you don't blow up the first kf7 guard that's by the barrels.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 03:12:35 pm by Discombobulator »

Discombobulator

  • Posts: 182
  • Randy Buikema
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #121 on: March 28, 2016, 07:56:33 pm »
Is there a consistent way to make sure you can pull out both the nade and one zmg? I can't seem to do it nearly at all, let alone consistently.

EDIT: nevermind, I was actually not doing the trick correctly at all. I didn't even know about using reload to have different weapons out at the same time. Just have to make sure to have full ammo in right gun, and not full ammo in left gun. Hit reload, then hit switch gun, and hold Z.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 08:50:56 pm by Discombobulator »

007

  • Posts: 142
  • So Intellectual, it hurts.
    • Decipher
    • GE
    • PD
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #122 on: March 30, 2016, 05:27:07 am »
Some analytical theories regarding the Depot warp:

1)  Can you use a second controller mashing "A" button or in intervals to help achieve the Bond pinch warp?  Has anyone tried to grind this theory out?

2)  Does the train door opening help create more lag to allow more consistency in achieving warp?
I seen the use of Turbo mode without activating the train door and Bond can get though, so maybe train door is not a factor?

3)  Is it possible that as you hit the exact V point(where the ramp meets the door) that Bonds arm/foot or gun have to be in a certain position(like when entering the V and rising up from the ramp at the exact moment, that a certain pixel has to be touching the door making it seem like Bond is through the door somewhat, allowing the game to achieve warp)?

4)  Does the left or right foot/arm make a difference to what has to be in front at time of warp happening? 

5)  Does completing A objective at the perfect moment create lag or play part in having a more consistent warp?

6)  Does hitting A button at the perfect time with any of the above mentioned play part in the warp?  If so, what would be the best time to press A with any of the above mentioned?   Or is A button a permanent factor regardless of combining with any of the above?
I know hitting A is crucial, but if it could be pinpointed, that could create a higher% consistency rate.  Unless this has be pinpointed already?

Thoughts on these questions would be greatly appreciated and I hope these have not been mentioned in the forums already.  If so, I apologize.   :alien:
*  "Low IQs should not argue with intellectuals that have real life experience and success.  It's painful...".
* People that rely on Google are uneducated and will wither away in the Dark ages.

Baps

  • Posts: 47
    • GE
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #123 on: March 30, 2016, 08:15:00 am »
Reguarding the cradle strats...

Ive been running cradle (just going for A 34)..
I read in some ones chat that clems had an idea about just running in and letting the nade go off in your hand completing obj A and B..
Now i have tried this every time i get a nade on A.. and ive had semi legit runs (no trev deaths but A complete) that where 33/32 and even one 31 pace..(all with A complete) 31 wont happen i dont think cause we need to wait for trev.. but i cant see why the tas run cant be copied.

A completions are really easy with this method too but trev deaths is where i dont know alot about..
This is where henriks input would be ideal.
I have vids of all the runs i could show

404

  • Posts: 2079
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #124 on: March 30, 2016, 08:42:50 am »
That's good news, sounds promising. My suggestion would be to test this with cheats over and over again, play around with timing and positioning, try to get completions, and maybe compare nade-in-hand with nade-on-floor. Go get your hands dirty :kappa:

50

  • Posts: 2510
    • 50 Cent
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #125 on: March 30, 2016, 09:20:47 am »
Where's da vid

Baps

  • Posts: 47
    • GE
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #126 on: March 30, 2016, 10:36:03 am »
I can upload the vids on friday im away working right now..

The problem is with throwing down as the nade goes off its pretty hard to controll bond around that chicane towards the ramp.. but the top players could do it no doubt. Allthough... i dont think you lose time with it going off in your hands and its pretty easy this way. I think its all about positioning bond just in the middle of the console and trev.. but im not sure if this is enough to kill trev.

Wyst3r

  • Posts: 4164
  • Train Strat Master
    • Henrik
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #127 on: March 30, 2016, 12:38:19 pm »
I think the problem is that the explosion needs to be pretty much in Trev face if he's to die from it (remember old SA/00A strat?). Otherwise he'll take minor damage and immediately become invincible again. I doubt Trev is ever close enough to the console for this to work.

The TAS run needed the second nade dropped by Trev for the strat to work. I also remember experimenting with getting the guard in the hut to pull a nade. It's easy to get obj A to complete that way, but even on LTK, Trev doesn't die (even if he's damaged).

I could be wrong of course, but it seems unlikely.

Baps

  • Posts: 47
    • GE
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #128 on: March 30, 2016, 12:46:21 pm »
Seems like a lost cause then.. unless some one can get close enough to trev but close enough to the console for it to complete.. to be honest on one of the tests i did im sure A completed around where the shadows are on the catwalk so maybe on that run i was close enough to trev? But not sure.. probably just a waste of time

50

  • Posts: 2510
    • 50 Cent
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #129 on: March 30, 2016, 12:55:25 pm »
Post the vid anyway friday dood

Baps

  • Posts: 47
    • GE
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #130 on: March 30, 2016, 12:57:47 pm »
Post the vid anyway friday dood

Will do dude

Discombobulator

  • Posts: 182
  • Randy Buikema
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #131 on: April 02, 2016, 03:12:54 am »
 I'm guessing this type of strat has been worked on in the past, but I feel like it has potential. So, instead of a dual wield grenade strat, why don't we just destroy the console from the other side?

Here's approximately what I mean. It's a 34, and although I got the drone kill, I didn't mean to. I'm more thinking about agent, and doing the agent strat, but blowing up the console from the opposite side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDGZX5etzVU&feature=youtu.be

Unfortunately, it's really difficult to blow up the console from the other side. here's the best I could do in a few hours of trying:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iX2jhleFhE&feature=youtu.be

It's definitely faster to do it this way, when done quickly, but 33 pace is extremely hard. One other idea is to just go really fast through the hut, spraying bullets towards the console, hoping to hit it at least once.  I'm pretty sure it increases the odds of trev blowing up the console with a nade:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mYqlMyKJhM&feature=youtu.be

I couldn't seem to get anywhere near consistent with blowing up the console, but maybe I haven't approached it well enough.  I think that if it is possible to get 33 this way, it's got to be better than farming a nade and hoping to drone kill + nade console.

Wyst3r

  • Posts: 4164
  • Train Strat Master
    • Henrik
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #132 on: April 02, 2016, 05:15:26 am »
Yeah i experimented with that strat as well, but it seemed difficult to pull off so i decided to focus on the nade strats. Maybe with alot of practise/luck it's doable? Agree that it'd be a better alternative than waiting for crazy RNG.

Icy

  • Posts: 1907
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
    • 2014SilverStar
    • 2015SilverStar
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #133 on: April 02, 2016, 09:56:48 am »
In combination with the drone fire though, it could be a nice consistency strat for those just going for 0:36-0:39 instead of risking bad backboosts by the other drone/console, or even killing yourself on the console. It should be easy to blow up running straight into the side a bit.

Don't really think too many players would be inclined to use it in that manner though, but it exists at least. :v

Wouter Jansen

  • Posts: 8968
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
    • 2014RankingsDev
    • 2015RankingsDev
    • 2016RankingsDev
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #134 on: April 02, 2016, 10:55:57 am »
Yeah i experimented with that strat as well, but it seemed difficult to pull off so i decided to focus on the nade strats. Maybe with alot of practise/luck it's doable? Agree that it'd be a better alternative than waiting for crazy RNG.

Why didn't you mention it? I think you should even for things that maybe be far far farfetched
sexy, this

Wyst3r

  • Posts: 4164
  • Train Strat Master
    • Henrik
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #135 on: April 02, 2016, 11:09:02 am »
If i mentioned all my farfetched ideas this topic would be 100 pages long by now :nesquik:

Icy

  • Posts: 1907
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
    • 2014SilverStar
    • 2015SilverStar
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #136 on: April 02, 2016, 11:10:21 am »
My PM box is always open. :v

Wouter Jansen

  • Posts: 8968
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
    • 2014RankingsDev
    • 2015RankingsDev
    • 2016RankingsDev
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #137 on: April 02, 2016, 11:44:07 am »
Mine too ;P

Though more practically then, to create its own topic for those :)
sexy, this

Illu

  • Posts: 5701
  • Proven Champ 2007
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
    • my Perfect Dark times page
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #138 on: April 02, 2016, 12:16:12 pm »
coming up...

Farfetched Ideas Topic

brilliant ideas:

- throw bug after falling off dam with 2.x
- lag out the train with rcp90
- forget to blow up first alarm on dam sa and hope no one notices

Grav

  • Posts: 824
  • thank u, next
    • GE
    • twitch
    • 2016SilverStar
    • 2017RankingsDev
    • 2017CommunityContributor
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #139 on: April 02, 2016, 07:03:52 pm »
Henrik, some good players who tested your route on B2 SA seem to have a really hard time getting both the door after document room opened for them and the klobb guard to be there. Is this normally super troll or is there a consistent way to manipulate the outcome to what you need? The last thing I want is for people to get discouraged because of a lack of understanding and let this strat go unused again.

Wyst3r

  • Posts: 4164
  • Train Strat Master
    • Henrik
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #140 on: April 02, 2016, 07:34:37 pm »
For the klobb guard, just use lookdown when you pass the corner before the documents (don't look up until you've entered the documents room). Should work 100%.

Same with the door really, although that's probably a 50-50 thing. I haven't really tried to figure it out. Since the beginning is so quick it's not a big problem.

Alec M.

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 2645
  • TroubleClef92
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
    • 2016RankingsDev
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #141 on: April 03, 2016, 12:50:56 am »
For the klobb guard, just use lookdown when you pass the corner before the documents (don't look up until you've entered the documents room). Should work 100%.

Same with the door really, although that's probably a 50-50 thing. I haven't really tried to figure it out. Since the beginning is so quick it's not a big problem.

m8 can you make a tutorial pls
"Train smarter, not harder" -Mike O'Hearn
GoldenEye Proof Moderator as of February 2015

spec BFR player

  • Posts: 1209
  • what up
    • Spec
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #142 on: April 03, 2016, 03:02:32 am »
Caverns 00 consistency SPEXPOSED


I found a very consistent lure of one (maybe two) scientist at the radio room, shooting a bullet while the roller door is opening (it takes a while to be able to aim at it, so you can still go back and spray at guards). If only this was a myth, but the scientist near the radio runs away all the time as long as you shoot the correct spot.
What it means is: Instead of having to lure 3 scientists on A, you only HAVE to lure 2.
The strategy obviously isn't fully developed yet. So feel free to mess around and find things! :D

(I mean, "found" as in waiting for some irrel oldboi say he "found" this 15 years ago but never had the stones to use it in runs)


Here's how it works:
- Open the roller door and do the guard-spray routine normally
- Go back to the door, and shoot one* zmg bullet around above the 3rd silver crate (ordering from left--->right)
- As you grab the BA and go full strafe into the radio area, the scientist should've already left there.

Details about the strat:
- The spot you have to shoot is related to how the scientist's AI work. What I described is what I got the feeling of how it worked successfully. If you know better, describe the "shot range" more precisely, please.
- I did not test the left side or the "double-lure" feel free to try it out!
- *I tested the 2-shot lure way more often, but I still think 1-shot is better. It seems to mess up the scientist's animation sequence, and he'll be near the crates when you reach there and put his hands up, the grenade guard will most likely be blocking your way as well. 3-shotting pretty much cancels the lure (which I expected).
- Almost forgot: headhost/killing one of the guards there apparently doesnt work :p


Also, found this new hat trick for RTA - 100% 1st scientist lure + console
This is a variation of the strat that Ace uses in his 1:00:01 run. So far it has been the only strat that actually works all the time, not feel/myth-based (like other 4 strats or so that I've been trying). Here's how it goes:
- Spray 3x ZMG just like you would do with AR/ZMG on the IL strat (yes, it will work, trust me)
- Go to the right side of the stairs, and burst 3x AR33 aiming at both consoles (one behind the other)
- Even if it seems like he's close to the consoles, somehow the explosion range is pretty forgiving
- Proceed to BA and the rest of the level!

That + Radio lure shot, Caverns became way less of a hell to complete on RTA.



VIDEO:
IT HAS TIMESTAMPS AT THE BEGINNING AND THE YOUTUBE DESCRIPTION
IT IS LONG BECAUSE IT HAS 3 COMPLETED RUNS AT THE END, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WATCH IT ALL
FFS OGRAN PLZ
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 01:15:13 pm by CORE Confidence Expert »
Speedrun Times
Chat highlights not embed so that forums don't get clogged:
http://i.imgur.com/HPNYJKM.png
http://i.imgur.com/jDB72Q1.png

"Part of what makes a shitpost good is that it contains Truth."

Icy

  • Posts: 1907
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
    • 2014SilverStar
    • 2015SilverStar
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #143 on: April 03, 2016, 08:46:21 am »
So cool! Nice to see one of the shittier levels get fixed up a lot! Hope you go for a sweet time with this (and 2.X :v)!

404

  • Posts: 2079
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #144 on: April 03, 2016, 09:22:41 am »
Great stuff Spec, up there with Henrik and Randy. It's amazing that more and more people start to use their brains instead of bluntly copying strats that were essentially invented thirteen years ago by addicted teenagers. It's the intellectual revolution of GE.

spec BFR player

  • Posts: 1209
  • what up
    • Spec
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #145 on: April 03, 2016, 01:19:48 pm »
Thanks! I'm actually very interested on the RTA part of it as well. The level continues to have the same random guard trolling and health issues, but I think that if a runner practices the strat, it might not be the most nightmare 100% level anymore (just a very difficult one). Right now I'm super fried from playing this for nearly 12h straight, but I'll play for at least a 1:33 whenever I can.

I do have full faith for 2.x in this level! :D
Speedrun Times
Chat highlights not embed so that forums don't get clogged:
http://i.imgur.com/HPNYJKM.png
http://i.imgur.com/jDB72Q1.png

"Part of what makes a shitpost good is that it contains Truth."

Illu

  • Posts: 5701
  • Proven Champ 2007
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
    • my Perfect Dark times page
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #146 on: April 03, 2016, 01:32:52 pm »
That's cool, it seems like that makes pressing the radio easier aswell, nice to see rta consistency improvements too.

Icy

  • Posts: 1907
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
    • 2014SilverStar
    • 2015SilverStar
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #147 on: April 03, 2016, 01:37:53 pm »

Here's a faster way to blow up the first set of Obj A computers. Doing this allows us to either run straight to the body armor instead of doing the turned throw into the computers, or alternatively, skip the body armor and take the upper catwalks to save a lot more time. You could also just throw two mines from the catwalk, but it's a little awkward to do without losing time.

It's also possible to do an OoB mine throw and stick it on the computers, but this method is far more consistent. Both the wall and the catwalk are too far to destroy them on their own, but it's enough damage when combined.

Obviously, this will only work with Spec's lure strat.

Illu

  • Posts: 5701
  • Proven Champ 2007
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
    • my Perfect Dark times page
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #148 on: April 03, 2016, 02:09:08 pm »
cool thinking

Discombobulator

  • Posts: 182
  • Randy Buikema
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #149 on: April 03, 2016, 07:10:38 pm »
This is the sloppiest video I've ever made, but I just wanted to float the idea of an upper catwalk A completion idea out there. Trick is to throw one mine right before the double doorway to the spiral, then throw another mine towards the double doorway, once you've gone up the spiral a bit.

The first part of the vid is how I lured the scientists, second part shows how the mines could be placed to blow up the consoles. Again, this is super unrefined.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq5llbqdKCo&feature=youtu.be