Author Topic: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas  (Read 45331 times)

Wouter Jansen

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #200 on: September 13, 2016, 07:01:33 am »
the leave is cool yeah, but I myself would stick to the one I've used way back when, because this one has to add odds on being shot into exit too early
sexy, this

Selenium Webdriver

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #201 on: September 15, 2016, 04:41:22 pm »

Alec M.

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Wodahs-Reklaw

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #203 on: September 16, 2016, 04:51:40 am »
Using 2.4 to shoot at the start of aztec you can lure the guards to bond.

If you have widescreen on you can kill the right guard (sometimes left) during the fade in and grab the AR for free. You can get more boosts also since the guards are lined up for the door.

here is a vid showing this strat off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9ebhob5o24
Daniel Wodahs-Relklaw Coelho

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #204 on: September 16, 2016, 05:03:56 am »
Nice, another WO (Wodahs-only) strat. :nesquik: :kappa:

my man

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #205 on: September 30, 2016, 02:57:09 pm »
Super pumped for Discombobulator getting Runway00 33 32 today. Since Spec had mentioned wanting to know the evolution of the recent Runway strats, I figured I'd catalog the saga:

Near the beginning of 2016 I decided, since I was having success with getting three of the boring four TWRs (plus the fact that I felt time was of the essence at my skill level,) that I would instead change gears and seriously start pursuing an untied in GE. Sometime back in May/June 2016 I decided to switch from playing Cradle DLTK (70+ hrs.) to a normal mode level. In the midst of playing Cradle DLTK I managed to find a few strats that were helpful:
http://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=845.msg431802#msg431802,
while what was more helpful was an analysis by Wyst3r of Trev's nature inside the hut in the midst of these attempts, which cultivated some very useful information about the level:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXPPi1ic9f4.

After switching gears I took a long hard look at the rankings and decided that I could possible make Runway 00A faster. I wondered if the current strat could be modified in such a way to avoid getting hit by the drone guns at all. With that in mind I worked on a new strat for about a month, retooling and reattempting, then started running it offline in August 2016.

The strat was a mixture of hotshott's 0:34 with the addition of two double r-leans standing at the nose of the plane. In late August I started streaming the strat, and had some very, Very close attempts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3NINY9GKJc

The first modification to this strat came from Ogran when he suggested that shooting the guard next to the missile battery could be advantageous on the way to the two final nade throws.

The next iteration came from Discombobulator with additional modifications that made the guard RNG (as well as the previously nullified drone RNG) effectively eliminated as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkmvZlShmuY

Through all this research it was seen that the strat rendered above by Discombobulator was very good for anything under about 0:36 with good execution of everything. The underlying challenge to the strat however was the two double r-leans at the nose of the plane, which are tricky, however doable. And so with all that in mind hotshott's strat came back to light for Discombobulator's 0:33 0:32 we see today which for the investment of time can still be seen as the most rewarding strat for the level.

I'd like to thank hotshott for the development of the r-lean strat on Runway00 which started me on a journey that has been very fulfilling, Cliff Hampton and everyone who has paid their dues on Runway to get us to where we are today, Discombobulator for the kudos and being a m8, Ogran, Icy, Wodahs, Spec, ClashingAshes, Birdie and everyone else who provided support. I'm stoked to have been part of a push to get Rare time down, and will continue to instigate untieds, 'cause that shit kicks ass. For now I may focus more on current strat, but I'm also gonna play other levels more often now, which is pretty exciting. :kappa:
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 12:49:57 am by Untied Instigator »

Discombobulator

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #206 on: October 01, 2016, 01:29:22 am »
Awesome stuff Luge. I wish I was around during the time you developed the strat, but I'm glad you showed it's not just possible, but plausible.

Speaking of plausible, here's essentially what would be a 6 nade boost runway SA strat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZQ_7Y4zz5Q&feature=youtu.be

I didnt actually blow up the drone, but it's close enough to see that it could've. The strat is almost surely suicidal, and 22 is blowing up with the strat as is, but just an idea I thought was interesting.

Icy

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #207 on: October 01, 2016, 11:10:19 am »
You've done a lot of good work with Cradle DLTK and Runway 00A, Luge. It's a little unfortunate you weren't the one to achieve new possible times, but keep them coming! :v

Besides, even a non-WR 0:33 for Runway would still be amazing.

Wyst3r

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #208 on: October 09, 2016, 01:28:35 pm »

Pros: Open door + Shoot alarm from further away + You only need to accelerate to full speed twice on the Dam, since you're close enough to the stairs.
Cons: The guard at the end will be annoying for sure + Last alarm might be difficult.

Had this idea many years ago but for some strange reason I could never made it work back then. Haven't actually timed it yet, so no clue how it compares to WR strat.

Selenium Webdriver

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #209 on: October 09, 2016, 02:49:48 pm »
I was very intrigued by this strat obviously because of my recent 1:16 attempts, so I turned on my N64, made sure I wasn't rusty and then gave it a go. I didn't have audio which would make a significant difference because this strategy seems like a difference of a few tenths at best, so my conclusion might not be accurate. But my first 15 minutes roughly says it isn't better. Both of the guards at the end make it very painful to position yourself and a backboost is inevitable. You can sometimes get a boost towards the Bungee Jump but it's quite rare and something you shouldn't count on. It's also pretty laggy, but it might be quicker if you can position yourself perfectly (which I determined to be just before the manhole with the alarm in sight - not close to the alarm at all of course) without being trolled by the guards. It's very inconsistent because of the guards too. I noticed you only lured 1 guard in your video. Is there some trick to that? Or perhaps he is in an inconvenient spot on WR pace runs? So if there was a way to 1) get rid of at least 1 guard 2) find a spot where you can consistently take out the alarm without being trolled 3) find a grenade on this level :kappa: ..it could work. I don't want to rule it out completely right now.

When you time it, be sure to use some realistic attempts and not involve TAS gameplay with rerecords!

It's a very interesting find regardless. Can something similar be used somewhere in the basement on 00 Agent to get the same door open? Just a thought.

Wyst3r

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #210 on: October 09, 2016, 03:29:21 pm »
Getting 1 guard shouldn't be a problem. It's all about timing, where the guard is positioned on the tower. I thought the run i used was quick enough to be realistic but perhaps i was a bit too slow. It could also be a difference caused by lookdown and unloading.  Shooting too early might cause it as well?

Worst case scenario: We watch a little bit of cinema.

Though now that i think about it, shooting speed might be a factor as well. If console has less lag and the KF7 shoots faster, then that = more noise. In that case, shooting later would solve it. Emulator is usually pretty fast though...

There is a way to potentially get rid of both guards, but it's much tricker. You have to lure the guard BEFORE the tower, so he runs the opposite direction and never sees you. The problem with this is that he'll warp the door, since you won't be able to look towards him soon enough. Maybe taking a quick turn towards 2nd tower before the alarm, or widescreen etc could help but I think it's unlikely to work.

Xerxes

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #211 on: October 27, 2016, 08:17:57 am »
Is it possible to get a guard to spawn inside the s1 comm dish room?

Discombobulator

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #212 on: February 05, 2017, 10:40:26 pm »
Here's a nightmare frigate 00a route idea. I'm not 100% sure the slowest hostage has enough time to escape, but it would be very close at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1OJ23sPV3g

If everything goes smoothly, I think you save around 3 seconds.

I don't know if this type of route has been shown off before. I'm sure some people have noticed it and not cared because it's virtually impossible, but I felt like putting it out there, just in case it leads to something else. You never know.

The video clip I made, is simply the "cut" part of the route. The things I do in this clip are definitely doable without cheats.

I forgot to include the fact that you need to also kill the engine room hostage taker, which adds another layer of difficulty. It's basically a strat that combines a depot agent warp, with a surface 2 old strat door through floor, and in case that wasn't hard enough, you still have to snipe a guard from a long ways away.

404

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #213 on: February 06, 2017, 03:33:54 am »
Here's a nightmare frigate 00a route idea. I'm not 100% sure the slowest hostage has enough time to escape, but it would be very close at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1OJ23sPV3g

So what's the route? Very cryptic proposal, mate :LOL:

Discombobulator

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #214 on: February 06, 2017, 06:31:01 am »
the level is played the same as normal. Only difference is that instead of going down the final set of stairs that leads you to the two first hostages we save, right before the first bomb disposal  in the engine, there's an entrance to a room with a ton of boxes in it, and you do the opposite pipe warp that we normally do.

I guess I'll explain it more. So, take the same path as 00a, going around the front of the boat. probably still shoot the 11 bullets in teh beginning to lure guards. Go out the stais on the outside of the boat, through the door. Once you are through the door, immediately turn left to go down that first set of stairs. Normally, after you turn to the right at the bottom of the stairs, you go all the way to the end of the hallway and wind around to go down the last stairset before the first hostage normally killed.

Instead of going across the hallway, you're going to go through the only entrance, which will on your left, through the room with the boxes, and warp backwards through the pipes.

once you warp the pipes, you're going to want to do the trick to open the hostage room door through the stairs/floor.  If you're interested in trying it, it can be done easily crouching. It's harder to do whilst standing, because you have to clip through the stairs a bit to even able to open the door. Thats the reason it looks goofy in my vid after I warp the pipes for the first time. To do the trick, I go down the stairs a short bit, then whip around to go back up the stairs, which works pretty well to clip bond through the stairs enough to open the door. right after that I whip back to the right, continue down the stairs.

Once I'm at the bottom of the stairs, I turn around and kill the hostage taker from far away. Not included in the video clip is the guard's positions. A bunch of guards block you from doing that whole stair section before the engine room. If you've managed to do all of that, you have to go into the and shoot the engine room hostage taker. after that the run is the same as the current strat.

If you have any more questions, please keep asking, especially if you think I'm missing something obvious. The hardest part of this strat that I ran into, is the opposite pipe warp. It's really hard to get bond situated in the perfect spot, and the warp is simply less consistent than its counterpart.

I thought about using this tactic for SA, where you save the agent hosties, the engine room hostage, and the normal last hostage, but I think the strat bottlenecks with the slowness of the engine room hostage.

Discombobulator

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #215 on: March 02, 2017, 06:14:51 pm »
First off I have to mention that my video card broke, and I cannot record. However, I just couldn't help but reveal what I came up with today. DOUBLE DOAK ODDS.

this old strat of luring a guard on facility SA/00a works perfectly fine, and seems to be just as fast, or slightly faster, or slightly slower than current strat.

Here's gragz vid that shows it off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BqytoKu304&t=0m39s

I found that if you start shooting before you even get into the scientist room, and shoot about 15 shots, you're good to go. you have plenty of time to exit the scientist room and get to the decoder door before the guard opens it.

I got two super bad trev 55s and a bad trev 54 in about an hour play session. 

Since I can't record, it's hard for me to tell exactly what will be the best way to do this strat. For secret agent, it looks like you'll need to snag one more guard's gun to have enough ammo. 00a is a little trickier, but I think pretty doable.

One thing I noticed, which may or may not be true, is I think looking away from the decoder door after you shooting your 15 bullets makes the guard get to the door fastest. I found that after I shot my 15 bullets, and went straight to the door and looked at it, waiting for the guard to open it, he seemed to always hump the door and take forever to get it open.  Every time I just waiting a bit before looking at the door, he opened it fast.

Also, I have no idea where to do boosts. I'm not sure you can do the normal fast strat first boost, down the scientist hallway, and still have enough time to fire enough bullets. you probably can, I just don't know for sure. I have no idea where to use the other two to boost.

I'm not sure if it's faster to do the older strat, where you double boost in the three guard hallway. any boosts after you lured the guard is a waste, because you have so much time to spare before he opens the door.

Again, unfortunately I don't have a vid to show this stuff off, but it worked every time I tried it, so the consistency for the lure seems to be solid.

There may even be better ways to lure, but just doing what is done in the vid works fine so far.

Luke

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #216 on: March 02, 2017, 06:33:52 pm »
lag issues? (for 51 and lower)
LAS

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Discombobulator

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #217 on: March 02, 2017, 06:37:50 pm »
possibly lag issues, but I still got 54s no problem, and although I recently got 44 agent, I think my 54s were equivalent to 54 normal strat. that's what I felt at least. I guess I could test by listening to the music. It's honestly really frustrating I can't record, but I'll check out music to compare.

flicker

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Discombobulator

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #219 on: March 02, 2017, 07:43:16 pm »
I found a way to record, so here's a 55 with cheats on. I left early, but you get the idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw5aTLwJfqU&feature=youtu.be

Discombobulator

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #220 on: March 07, 2017, 10:28:41 pm »
So today I was thinking about different ways to possibly lure the decoder door guard on facility. I thought I was super clever, had some crazy thoughts about throwing mines through walls, blow up one of the guards, which in turn lures the other. I then thought that it might even be possible to do it from the hallway before A completion.

Naturally, the first thing I try to do when I think of some crazy strategy, is search on the forums to see if/when Henrik already figured it out. 95% of the time he's already thought of strats like this, and indeed, he thought exactly the same thing I did, back in 2010.

I found this thread created by (2PLAYER?)

https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=15444.msg350867#msg350867

Here are some of the relevant comments from Henrik:

Quote
Worst idea ever, throw a mine in facility like when entering obj A door that kills one of the guys in tank room so the other gets alerted and opens security door for ya hahah, big timesaver for SA/00A

Quote
I tested a bit myself and it seems you need quite alot of space for this to work? like a big room or corridor and it doesn't work too well if you are in the same room as you're trying to throw out of? (like room just outside bathroom in facility, mine always sticks to the wall if you try to throw towards console)

I feel like we know a little bit more about throwing things through walls, so I wanted to revisit this. Unfortunately, unlike S2 Agent where I could see exactly where the mines were being thrown, and knew exactly when to detonate them to complete the objective, this type of throw isn't something I can figure out on my own. This may fall directly onto Henrik, and I'm sorry about that. I don't know who else can TAS, and I'm guessing a TAS would be the only way to figure out if this throw is even possible.

I did, however, make some vids on some ideas I had, that may make the process go more quickly.

First video is just to show that you can both blow up a guard to lure the other guard, and that you can accomplish this by throwing a mine through the wall. I mainly wanted to confirm that the explosion wouldn't unload if thrown through walls in facility. This may not apply to every wall, but at least it's possible to lure a guard with a mine thrown through the wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7WYDQOSFoQ&feature=youtu.be

These two videos show two spots that could be possible to hit a guard from. You don't HAVE to use an R-Lean to throw the mines through the wall, but the corridor with the lured guard is very far away. In the first video, I'm crouched down, in the zig zag hallway, throwing it through the huge wall in the room with the staircase. The second video is the throw I hope can work, as it would be perfect for timing the lure, and the corridor is directly left of the room before you warp the guard to complete objective A. the second throw has the mine going through the ceiling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEJL41cBeHM&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISVW4wrhBMY

Lastly, this is a video of what I would consider the dream strategy if it indeed is possible to throw a mine through the ceiling/wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00iGMRHXEg8&feature=youtu.be

Wodahs-Reklaw

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #221 on: March 07, 2017, 10:43:39 pm »
This looks 100% troll, but I have a feeling it totally could be done. We first just need to find a spot and angle to get the lean to lure the guard, and thats it bascially I guess.
Daniel Wodahs-Relklaw Coelho

wheatrich

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #222 on: March 08, 2017, 01:52:23 am »
I always wondered if you could do this to get someone to open the first locked door--maybe scientist is too slow tho.

Ogran

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #223 on: March 08, 2017, 07:04:12 am »
I did some testing today, there might be a chance this can work. It depends if the mine can travel OOB normally, though it will very likely require manual detonation as it's travelling because I don't think it will stick (based on very minor testing throwing mines OOB in the labs).

This spot may be the way to go (here's a 1m44 vid of the discovery - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB-jxZJnJKw):


The reason this spot should work is that you're on the edge of one room while standing still, then r-leaning into another room then back out quickly so it unloads and the mine can goes through the wall.
The blue barrier is where the portal is, so just dont be looking past it when the mine is travelling out of your hands (i suggest watching vid for this to make sense).


Here's a quick overview of the area for aiming the throw - im pretty sure you'd need the explosion somewhere near the red circle to alert them, or where Randy detonated his on the video [outside the guard room's door], though this may be too far.



Semi-related idea; I tried luring the guards out of their room to come open the decoder door using KF7 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7juWVHVuKNk), as long as you shoot early (to build up noise) and have a few shots go into the back wall - then look-down so the guard(s) warp the door it seems like it takes ~6-7 seconds. I think faster than using the decoder (while adding in pause time).
With a tighter turn, you can prob have the guard be alerted very close to where we usually pause.

I don't expect this to be viable, just a bit of fun though just posting here in case anyone can think of a use or a way to speed the guard up; unloading/loading him differently, being in a different spot etc.
 


« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 07:10:24 am by Ogran »
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Jimbo

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #224 on: March 08, 2017, 07:44:20 am »
I always wondered if you could do this to get someone to open the first locked door--maybe scientist is too slow tho.

Selenium Webdriver

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #225 on: March 08, 2017, 08:28:23 am »
Provocative Guard

Ogran

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #226 on: March 08, 2017, 11:55:23 am »
Okay, so you can get a line there from this spot.

If the mine can make the distance (and be at the correct height) - we're all set for 10s+ cut.


Also, from the spot randy used in his dream run vid it can work, likely as I think it's the same type of thing; throwing into another room that isn't fully loaded.
Spoiler
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 12:45:52 pm by Ogran »
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Wyst3r

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #227 on: March 08, 2017, 02:09:31 pm »
It's very easy to get throw a mine there with R-leaning from the U-turn before the labs. Unfortunately the guards don't die (verified mine height/position with Lua map for 20-30 successful throws). I tried hitting the scientists in the big lab using the same method, and the explosion just disappears. Randy's throw worked because the big room was loaded, in our case, it's not unfortunately.

Also the KF7 lure you showed is much slower and quite an old idea. A faster way is the Gragz method where you alert them from the big lab which is roughly same speed as regular strat (a bit random).
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 02:22:47 pm by Wyst3r »

Discombobulator

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #228 on: March 08, 2017, 05:24:09 pm »
I can't thank you guys enough for putting time into figuring this out. It's unfortunate (to me) that it doesn't work, but oh well, was worth a try.

Also, I don't know if you guys are trying to describe some other lure strategy, but I made a post, just a few posts above the rlean mine strat, where I put a vid of a 55 pace.

I wasn't happy with that vid, so here's a better one, played on AGENT, just to show pace. The run is 53...failing bottles. I also messed up the mine boost, and probably lost a half a second or more on the decoder door, missing the warp, getting stuck, and also it's possible to mine boost down the last set of stairs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdCn1UOrACA&feature=youtu.be

I did try my best to figure out the best spot to lure from, and here's a crude picture that shows where I aim to strafe at. The farthest away I could lure the guard was when I was humping the protrusion from the wall, so that's where I try to strafe to. I go around the table after that just because I have plenty of time to waste. again, you don't want to get to the decoder door too fast, otherwise the guard will be slow. I don't know why that guard is slow, but he is.

I also realized that it may not be possible to do the corner mine boost (the first boost done on 52s), so I improvised and tried to do a mine boost just before that. I messed it up, and instead of blowing it up I switched to detonator, which almost tripped me up.

The strat may be slightly more troll, because the last guard can get in your way sometimes, but I still think the double doak odds, and the ease of the strat, should make it a better option, especially if you're going for mid 50's.


I also don't know how to embed an image, but here's the link:

http://imgur.com/a/lc9Jm

Discombobulator

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #229 on: March 08, 2017, 06:58:42 pm »
after thinking about it a bit, this mine boost could be perfect. It seems to allow enough time to pull out the kf7 to lure the guard, and the benefit is that it gives you the ammo you need for both SA and 00a, so you don't have to go out of the way to kill another guard. It is kind of easy to kill yourself, but with some practice, this boost should be the solution for ammo, and solution for one boost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NQCklA5ZpU&feature=youtu.be

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #230 on: March 24, 2017, 12:44:38 pm »
third doak + guard lure proof of concept:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zexut3RGh1Y&feature=youtu.be

this would be nearly impossible to pull off in a real run, I'd imagine, unless there's a way to get a boost after hooking up with the third Doak, or a quicker way to do the lure, or something. Either way, there's no downside to going for the third doak, because you'll know pretty much right away if you have either of the other two doaks.

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #231 on: March 25, 2017, 02:48:18 am »
Just messing around, and decided to see if the decoder door could be opened in the same way we do aztec glass. This probably has been attempted before, but I couldn't find a post or a video, so here's an example of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uOegmt55I8&feature=youtu.be

I haven't thought about how this strat could be implemented, just happened when I tried it once, so I figured I'd put a vid up of it.

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #232 on: March 25, 2017, 07:01:54 am »
I have messed around with this strat before, and it never seemed very realistic. I think it's both extremely hard to pull off fast since you need to use the 2 guards next to the door and somehow make it through the glass door in an extremely short amount of time after they start following you. And it might even be slower (can't quite remember what results i got)?

I think my idea was to use the KF7 to lure the 2 guards away from the door a bit to buy some time. Did some tests where i just leaved them in place as well, but they're obviously gonna see running to the glass door if you do that.

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #233 on: March 26, 2017, 03:05:35 am »
I did some very crude timings comparing my 52 00A with Birdie's 59 and the Lure video on Disco's channel from 3 weeks ago. The strat appears to be a tad slower (not by much, like 0.5-1s +/- 1 second according to my estimate) but if it improves consistency I'd even take a .2 loss. No big deal for 0:51..

But there needs to be accurate comparisons. I don't think anyone has timed this strat meticulously. It's worth trying out.

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #234 on: May 04, 2017, 12:01:19 pm »
On Facility if Dr. Doak is in the room to what would be his right when he is in the perfect spot, you can open the door to that right room, wait a fraction of a second until he starts walking towards you, then continue straight through the hallway. Even though you're on opposite sides of the glass he still initiates the dialogue. And by the time you reach the coded door you have the decoder in your inventory. You should only lose 1-1.5s hopefully.

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #235 on: May 04, 2017, 06:34:48 pm »
^
Bow down

That's some Higgs-Bozon shit.

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #236 on: June 01, 2017, 03:03:28 pm »
Right strafe into the wall instead of left strafe, after you come out of first pause and are waiting for the glass to open on Aztec. Guaranteed .15 save.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 03:08:53 pm by Ogran »
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Wyst3r

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #237 on: June 03, 2017, 07:02:32 am »
Quote
Something else: On Dam 00A, is there really no feasible way to lure a guard to open the door to the mainframe room to save a sec? Like shooting a full Kf7 clip near the last crates (can't test anything myself atm)?

I dismissed this idea by OHMSS a few years ago, but with some help from the Lua map today I managed to find a way to do it:


To make it work, the guard must be very close to the door. As you approach the mainframe room, the guard is already walking away from the door and will normally be much too far away, so we need a way to make him stay there. This is possible, but only if we can keep him unloaded until Bond gets within his hearing radius. As long as he doesn't finish his (semi-long) segment going away from the door before we load him, he will be right next to the door. If we shot enough KF7 bullets before this, then he will immediately open the door when we load him.

Fortunately, the timing works out well here. His segment is long enough that we shouldn't have to worry about it (unless you're really slow?). The main issue is that we need to use lookdown throughout most of the basement (you can't shoot the 2nd guard that we normally shoot, and you can't shoot the crate guard until you're very close to him, like in the video). Basically, looking down the hallway leading to the mainframe room is a big no-no. So the strat will be annoying in the sense that we'll likely get an extra backboost and sometimes an extra guard on the way back, but on the upside the door will be fully opened. Guess you need some KF7 ammo as well, not sure if 10 is enough (i know 12 works, though emulator shoots faster).

Haven't tried this on console yet, so if someone could do that it'd be really nice.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 07:09:40 am by Wyst3r »

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #238 on: June 03, 2017, 07:34:28 am »
if only you'd posted this 6 hour earlier, I'd have been able to test it on stream for 5h.  That's ok, will test tomorrow.  This is potentially HUGE if it works.
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Wyst3r

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #239 on: June 03, 2017, 07:46:49 am »
Timezones etc...

Actually the reason I found this was because you tried the old open door strat on stream and I thought to myself, "There has to be a way to do this without luring 50 guards". Was thinking about telling you about it then, but you were already talking about ending the stream and I didn't want to force you to continue playing :p

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #240 on: June 03, 2017, 08:06:42 am »
A few months ago (new file) I had a cradle run that ended with me getting shot off the platform. I had just killed Trev and obj A was completed prior. Cinema played of Bond falling off the platform, but when the end card showed, both objectives were complete with mission status: killed in action. The cheat unlocked (text showed and everything). In a case like this, does the timer stop with bond's death? Are there levels where dying right at the end barrier/fade to cinema could save some time? I'm thinking Dam 00 possibly. Dunno. It was really strange and I'm not entirely sure it's exploitable. Could have just been a last frame obj complete.
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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #241 on: June 03, 2017, 08:10:26 am »
oh cool, I actually appreciate that Henrik.  I get annoyed when ppl bring things up on stream without adequate explanation, but the vid looks reasonable to try.  Good to have inspired this.
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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #242 on: June 03, 2017, 08:36:12 am »
Awesome job again professor Henrik! Good luck trying this out tomorrow, Ryan.

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #243 on: June 04, 2017, 06:24:53 am »
A few more details:

1. You only need 9 bullets to lure the guard (at least on emulator), you just need to start shooting a bit later than in my video. Of course, you won't have enough ammo left for the crate guard if you only have 10 ammo total.

2. The hearing radius of the guard starts around here:

You can look up before this, but the guard will open the door slower (he will walk away for a bit before hearing you). It's safer to wait until you've reached the crates, so you're guaranteed to have alerted him before loading him. If you're not getting fully opened doors, you're looking up too early.

3. This is where you need to start lookdown (crossing the red line). Any lookup before this is fine.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 07:40:05 am by Wyst3r »

Wyst3r

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #244 on: June 04, 2017, 11:22:45 am »
I just finished watching a replay of your stream Goose, and the one thing I noticed is that you look up way too early (like halfway down the hallway). This is why the door almost never opened fully and sometimes was very slow. If you wait until you reach the crates, you'll have much better results.

Also I guess you figured this out already, but for it to work with 1 KF7, the 10th bullet needs to be fired within the hearing radius. 10 bullets is not enough to reach max noise though (because the value is constantly decreasing between bullets), so you need to be a bit closer than in the picture I posted above. You probably want to be closer anyway though, if you want to have bullets left to kill the guard.

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #245 on: June 05, 2017, 12:26:37 pm »
As far as I know, this is a brand new Aztec glass strat which seems slightly quicker than the Clemens strat. I've compared videos of this strat with the Clemens strat and I seem to reach the glass a few tenths of a second earlier and have also done an extra quickpause so that saves even more time, especially if the glass opens really quickly. I have been consistently getting quicker pauseouts with this strat.


What you need to do is run past the mainframe guard like on the Clemens strat but turn left as you pass the mainframe and wait to the left of the second guard. Go as far as you can into that gap and immediately quickpause and back up. Now close the mainframe and continue like you would with the Clemens strat. You've got to be really fast because the mainframe guard will quickly follow you in and block you when you're trying to back up out of the gap.

The main disadvantage of the strat is that you're relying more heavily on getting good guard animations so you don't get as many chances of the glass opening as you would with the Clemens strat however you can always switch to the Clemens strat if the mainframe guard does a long crouching animation.


Wyst3r

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #246 on: June 05, 2017, 05:08:08 pm »
Hiding next to the guard has been used before (without the quickpause though?), and if I recall correctly, the other guard won't run around in circles if you stay there (like with the second pillar), so it's possible to look at him to time your leave (maybe your way of doing it is better somehow though?).

The timesave should be entirely dependent on how fast the first guard can run behind the mainframe, which in turn is based on his first animation. If he has an animation that's fast enough such that you can never reach the second pillar, then this will save time in those instances (also runs like yours where you get backed alot now stands a chance).

Anyway, I did some 1 KF7 open door attempts on console to demonstrate that it's doable and to kinda show what works and what doesn't. The last 2 attempts are the most interesting where I start shooting a bit later.


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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #247 on: June 05, 2017, 05:52:24 pm »
ty Henrik this is super useful, I was having very few runs with 20 kf7 ammo last night, and it didn't feel the one kf7 was viable.  But after seeing this, it definitely is.

The challenge will be picking up a kf7 on the return to do the last 2 alarms, but it's far, far worth it.

Here's a 1:55 failed on 007 mode I got last night with this strat: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/149663018  7:1 ratio with many imperfections. The time save is... notable.  I genuinely think Ace/Marc can get 1:53 eventually with this + KGT.
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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #248 on: June 05, 2017, 06:05:16 pm »
Hiding next to the guard has been used before (without the quickpause though?), and if I recall correctly, the other guard won't run around in circles if you stay there (like with the second pillar), so it's possible to look at him to time your leave (maybe your way of doing it is better somehow though?).

The timesave should be entirely dependent on how fast the first guard can run behind the mainframe, which in turn is based on his first animation. If he has an animation that's fast enough such that you can never reach the second pillar, then this will save time in those instances (also runs like yours where you get backed alot now stands a chance).

I'll have another look at it tomorrow. I assumed the mainframe guard would follow you in quicker if you look away like on the Clemens strat.


Wyst3r

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #249 on: June 05, 2017, 06:12:57 pm »
If my old notes are correct, a fully open door saves around 97 frames, or 1.616 seconds. So your 1:55 vid description was pretty much spot on.