Author Topic: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas  (Read 45438 times)

Time was untied when set.

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #50 on: September 23, 2014, 11:39:00 am »
Basically what Luke said. Theres no way to just get him to go to the 5th cam area with normal strat? That would be the best route for sure but then again youd need to lose speed to get the clipboard. Kinda hope these strats dont work...  :kappa:
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Wyst3r

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #51 on: September 23, 2014, 12:04:02 pm »
I wouldn't pay too much attention to my end time there. I did the exact same kind of yolo test runs with normal strat and was never able to get better times. As i mentioned before, i can't get 44 speed with either strat, so you gotta expect a few secs lost purely from me being bad (+ PAL).

Also correct me if i'm wrong here:

The only "extra" distance you run with this route is from CCTV tape to 5th cam (normal strat). This is because you run it twice, instead of once.

Test runs on emulator shows that this takes just over a second. However, not going to the clipboard guard saves around 4 seconds. So time saved from pure route difference = ~3 seconds?

Seems unlikely that you'd lose 3 seconds doing this route compared to normal one.

Edit: Ran through both routes with no guards around on emu, and new one ended up ~2 seconds faster.

Quote
Theres no way to just get him to go to the 5th cam area with normal strat?

I tried this a bit but he was never fast enough for this. Might still be possible though, but very unlikely. It'd make the 5th cam really akward to do as well.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2014, 12:26:27 pm by Wyst3r »

Wyst3r

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2014, 04:02:15 pm »
Sorry Clem...


I had nearly given up on making this strat work on console. But after ~3 hours of desperate attempts i finally figured it out. The key to it all turned out to be a simple R-lean.

Quick facts about this:

-Pretty much requires the klobb cinema, otherwise the guard will likely warp the door at the documents.

-Clipboard odds seem to be really really good. The trick is to stay in the middle of the hallway, away from the walls, when luring him.

-The R-Lean is necessary to lure the clipboard guard, otherwise he won't be able to hear you. You only need to do this for the last bullet though.


When i intially did this on emulator, i was able to stay in the middle of the hallway, and simply aim at the far camera to lure the clipboard guard. However, when i tried it on console, i noticed that the clipboard guard could no longer hear me from this position. The problem seemed to be that emulator has faster firing speed, which makes it slightly more noisy. You'd need at least 18 ammo on console to make that work, but there is no time to get ammo and reload.

So i tried a bunch of other stuff, like shooting closer to the corner. Problem with that is that the clipboard guy will always stop there. With a bunch of guards running at the same time, they probably need some space in order to be fast. That's probably why you need to stay away from the walls, cause otherwise the guards are more likely to get stuck on each other.

Another issue with the strat is that you need to be past the documents room when the clipboard guard reaches the spot where you lured from. The reason is that he will otherwise take the documents route to find you. With the good cinema and the R-lean strat, this should never be a problem though.

The clipboard guard can be really fast btw, much faster than in my 44 fail above. So you shouldn't have to look towards the right after CCTV tape. After i started doing the R-lean strat, i got him there really consistently, like 3 out of 4 tries. Not sure how good the odds actually are but definately > 50%.

Let's see some untieds :nesquik:



Illu

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2014, 04:30:28 pm »
amazing, maybe I can skip some seconds on this level from my PR of 0:51 :v

Rützou

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2014, 04:58:27 pm »
Clemens must be prety fucking mad.

That sucks though. Pretty gay when you worked hard for a good untied and then a new strat or timesaver comes up.

Luke

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2014, 05:27:10 pm »
Weekend pls come faster
LAS

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2014, 06:54:35 pm »
PB 42
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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #57 on: September 25, 2014, 05:38:20 am »
Interesting optimizations:

1. Right after killing klobb guard, open the door to the 3rd cam, then destroy mainframe cam like normal. Now when you return you'll be able to see the cam from far away and take it out quicker. Maybe even without stopping.

2. After killing klobb guard, instead of just opening the door to 3rd cam, enter the room briefly and while shooting 3 bullets with the KF7. This will alert the guard by the tape (or rather, a clone of him) and since you're in the room with the camera, he'll run through the Bunker 1 entrance area. This means you'll have both doors opened for you when you get there.

2nd will probably end up slowing you down. 1st one is definately useful.

Edit: Also, alternative 4th (Bunker 1 entrance) cam method:

After opening the 1st door, instead of shooting the cam, go straight for the 2nd door. Now, turn around and start shooting the cam while backstrafing. Get the tape while in backstrafe, then continue like normal.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2014, 05:59:16 am by Wyst3r »

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2014, 06:46:55 am »
wowzers in me trousers!

Wyst3r

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2014, 09:17:21 am »
You can avoid the problems with the klobb guard not being there on fast runs by watching 1-2 seconds of cinema.

Also, good cinema isn't actually required. If you watch 1-2 seconds of a bad cinema, then shoot 6 bullets before the documents room, the klobb guard will open the double doors for you. This is still a bit worse than a good cinema though, because the klobb guard in the beginning will be further away and likely boost you during the clipboard lure.

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2014, 01:05:17 pm »
I remember when it was said that "b2 SA 44 is immune to 2.4 because of pausing at the start."

NO RECORD IS EVER IMMUNE

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2014, 09:23:41 pm »
Hopefully Clemens gets back to GE on a normal basis, but the reality of 0 untieds for him is very real now..

Sick new strat though Henrik. It's really fun to find strats that are faster no matter the cost.

Wyst3r

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #62 on: September 30, 2014, 03:55:44 pm »

~32 frames (0.533333 seconds) faster.

Illu

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #63 on: September 30, 2014, 04:31:19 pm »
cool, might be too inconsistent to pull off with the lag and everything we'll see

404

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #64 on: September 30, 2014, 05:05:18 pm »
Ace did similar shenanigans with a remote mine during 54 attempts. This seems more promising though ;)

Wyst3r

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #65 on: September 30, 2014, 05:16:44 pm »
Yeah, remote mine isn't really an option anymore due to the new mine strat for 2nd last drone.

Wodahs-Reklaw

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #66 on: November 06, 2014, 05:41:57 pm »
For B1 SA/00A would it be faster to hold down-right strafe so you get in the corner of the door while pivoiting to the door?

My reasoning is that you will see the door sooner perhaps saving a frame or two. I was wondering if this is actually faster and maybe how much quicker it would be.
Daniel Wodahs-Relklaw Coelho

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #67 on: November 06, 2014, 06:46:23 pm »
For B1 SA/00A would it be faster to hold down-right strafe so you get in the corner of the door while pivoiting to the door?

My reasoning is that you will see the door sooner perhaps saving a frame or two. I was wondering if this is actually faster and maybe how much quicker it would be.

I do that. Not sure if other top players do though.

Luke

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #68 on: November 06, 2014, 09:04:52 pm »
i do
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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #69 on: November 06, 2014, 09:37:26 pm »
I do.
*Creator of 'waiting half a sec more cutscene' on b2 agent*
*Creator of 'bounce boost' on streets agent*
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Wyst3r

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #70 on: November 07, 2014, 04:21:54 am »
It's slightly faster yes. Can save up to ~0.08 seconds. To be completely optimal, you probably need to start holding forward mid-turn, although it's pretty negligible. You won't be able to do any of this perfectly on console anyway.

Stoxenbawns

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #71 on: November 07, 2014, 05:21:13 pm »
Wouldn't it also technically give you a bigger window to do the pause trick?
Eric B

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #72 on: April 26, 2015, 01:47:28 pm »
On streets SA/00, use 2.4, and shoot seven times during the 2nd cinema. Boost guaranteed 100% of the time all the time!

So far it worked 7 out of 8 times. No video, but test it out for yourselves, I'm still playing atm.
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Wyst3r

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #73 on: April 26, 2015, 03:16:11 pm »
Oh wow, that's a pretty damn useful discovery. Surprised it was overlooked for so long.

So Agent doesn't work?

Quote
7 out of 8 times
Quote
100% of the time

Nice math :kappa:

spec BFR player

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #74 on: April 26, 2015, 04:04:51 pm »
:nesquik: That's the course I'm taking bruh.

The "testing" I did was on 00 Agent, the frequency I got the boost is often enough to make it worth it to do every time (yeah, this "7/8" number dropped :kappa: but I was still getting it).
Also this is a boost you get before even going outside of the "parking place", I never got it once without doing those shots. I had a 3:0 beginning with this boost + one by the lone guard + most standard one as you reach val's hut. So even if it's in reality 25% or so, still better to do it every time.
I was always doing 7 shots, but I'm not sure how their timing and your line when going outside matter... I did two delayed shots, then 5 quick ones, the last one usually landed a bit before the middle of bond's view.

On Agent I'm not really sure, because I was going to the val hut, not to the Agent route. Plus less accuracy... Plus maybe it doesn't allow you to headshot the guard if you're doing for 2xGL strat.



EDIT: Returned to the 156 00 grind, and got it in 4 minutes. Skip to 2:27 to see the boost in action. I am VERY positive that you can't get it without shooting the cinema, or it depends on a luckier animation...

« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 05:25:39 pm by i'm HARD for a cavs00 completion bruh »
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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #75 on: April 26, 2015, 05:40:05 pm »
i was doing that for awhile when going for 113/156/156, seemed useless on agent but actually helpful on sa/00a because the guard will run quite far while you do the val stuff, i'm pretty sure i've been backboosted by him too, i dunno for sure though.

Aztec Exemplar

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #76 on: September 15, 2015, 02:39:12 am »
This idea has prob been thrown around but we've been fucking around with the 1 mine strat for the end of Fac. The obvious problem is shooting out 4 fast enough but maybe it's worth a revisit to put our minds together and make 39 possible.
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Alec M.

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #77 on: September 15, 2015, 03:36:59 pm »
This idea has prob been thrown around but we've been fucking around with the 1 mine strat for the end of Fac. The obvious problem is shooting out 4 fast enough but maybe it's worth a revisit to put our minds together and make 39 possible.

lolwut. Wouldn't talking to Trev still be the same amount of time whether you use 1 mine or 2 on the tanks? Or are you saying spare one more mine for another boost somewhere? Interesting thought. Seems too crazy.
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squrpion

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #78 on: September 15, 2015, 07:46:28 pm »
I found a strat that I showed on stream once for Bunker 1. The specific cutscene with the guard exiting the mainframe room: if you use 2.4 and shoot as he opens the door it alerts him. Given this, if you time it correctly, he can boost you out of the first door. Maybe a B1 A 0:16 strat?

Alec M.

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #79 on: September 15, 2015, 08:52:25 pm »
I found a strat that I showed on stream once for Bunker 1. The specific cutscene with the guard exiting the mainframe room: if you use 2.4 and shoot as he opens the door it alerts him. Given this, if you time it correctly, he can boost you out of the first door. Maybe a B1 A 0:16 strat?

Can be a 16/17 strat but extremely degen. Many of us know about this one but it's too crazy to go for any consistency on it.  :v
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Icy

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #80 on: September 15, 2015, 09:16:30 pm »
There's also the issue of how long the cutscene is at the start which pulls the patrolling guard in the main room closer and getting in the way often. It's not a great B1 strat.

Aztec Exemplar

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #81 on: September 16, 2015, 01:09:17 am »
This idea has prob been thrown around but we've been fucking around with the 1 mine strat for the end of Fac. The obvious problem is shooting out 4 fast enough but maybe it's worth a revisit to put our minds together and make 39 possible.

lolwut. Wouldn't talking to Trev still be the same amount of time whether you use 1 mine or 2 on the tanks? Or are you saying spare one more mine for another boost somewhere? Interesting thought. Seems too crazy.

Yes, you get an extra boost somewhere. An idea is down the last stairs but there might be better spots. Maybe if we detonate the mine in the tanks, boost us forward and rape the rest of the tanks within the massive lag it'd be possible. Just need to figure out the optimisations.
"Time's a teacher spitting since I was tying sneakers" - Jus

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #82 on: September 16, 2015, 04:02:43 am »
The B1 agent 2.4 strat is probably a huge bust. You're pushed way far to the right from the pause spot. I was trying that months, months ago when I went for 17.
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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #83 on: September 16, 2015, 08:30:30 am »
Yeah Mirror, how would you save like 4 seconds all of a sudden with just one extra mine boost?
You're thinking about skipping Trev if that's ever possible.
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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #84 on: September 20, 2015, 11:19:07 pm »
Step 1. Play Streets Turbo Agent (2.x preffered for quick start) for ~5/10 minutes and get a 33.

Step 2. Immediately play any other non-turbo level, test it out on normal streets agent.

Step 3. Experience the matrix.
Here in and of the dark, our city, it's streets and walls
Here we live, we are, inside our homes and malls

Aztec Exemplar

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #85 on: September 21, 2015, 05:36:43 am »
Step 1. Play Streets Turbo Agent (2.x preffered for quick start) for ~5/10 minutes and get a 33.

Step 2. Immediately play any other non-turbo level, test it out on normal streets agent.

Step 3. Experience the matrix.

Used that strat for Archives 00 54.
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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #86 on: September 30, 2015, 01:50:54 pm »
Reguarding the B1 2.x "strat"...

If you do it on SA ( may not save much time but might make 22/23 a lil easier..) when the key guard is alerted he opens the two doors leading to bond, which means you just turn.. kill and take the key, then resume as normal but the doors are now open. Is this worth trying?

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #87 on: September 30, 2015, 01:55:02 pm »
That strat is used in the 00A run in the TAS (and also saves times there), but requires superb 2.X skills. If you think you can benefit from using 2.X, go for it!

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #88 on: October 04, 2015, 12:55:37 am »
here's my best attempt at coming up with a 46 strat for s2 agent. utilizes the duck double lean, which I vaguely and poorly try to describe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t29mroTuySU&feature=youtu.be

Illu

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #89 on: October 04, 2015, 06:28:00 am »
amazing

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #90 on: October 10, 2015, 06:37:51 am »
new r-lean, the turn lean:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqfFOObqlJw&feature=youtu.be

I spent a few hours trying to see if turning while leaning makes mines go farther. It appears they do, but I'm struggling to get good comparisons. might make the 46 strat "easier." I'm not exactly sure.

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #91 on: October 10, 2015, 06:09:58 pm »
I think its just the crosshair going to the left/right that changes the throw, not the fact that you are turning (since that's just a side effect of holding left or right). I noticed this with my R aim when I was practicing for 47. My stick sucks so neutral isn't always center and the throw is shorter if you hold the stick even slightly to the right from center.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2015, 08:25:35 pm by Navajo Rug »
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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #92 on: October 10, 2015, 08:16:12 pm »
ah yes, good point. I forgot about that. same thing happens if you hold "down" on the thumbstick as you r-lean. the throw goes somewhat behind you, but it doesn't go as far. I thought about it possibly being useful on runway SA, but I couldn't implement it well enough for it to be faster. still could be though.

Wyst3r

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #93 on: November 16, 2015, 01:50:27 pm »

Haven't tested this on console, but on emulator i'm able to avoid the drone back with ~90% consistency on any difficulty. The main difference is using right strafe, which seems to affect the drone enough to make this possible. Not sure how much lookdown matters, but it's a bit easier to find the opening that way.

Not very helpful timewise but might be useful on 00A to preserve health. (if you're willing to lose a second due to the slower route ofc)

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #94 on: November 16, 2015, 03:07:59 pm »
Just went 0 for 20 on 00 Agent, so that's a dead strat. gg :(

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #95 on: November 16, 2015, 05:06:06 pm »
Just went 0 for 20 on 00 Agent, so that's a dead strat. gg :(

Maybe it's a fast-runs-only strat :nesquik:
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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #96 on: December 13, 2015, 01:56:51 am »
Concerning Statue:

Theory: Use Marc's route for the start, normal route for the return.

#1. Time-save from not swapping strafes at the start - FACT.
#2. Marc's route greatly reduces the lag (maybe where the biggest time save comes from?) on the way to val - not loading all the area near val and you're pretty much looking at a wall all the way.
#3. On the return, mock image below shows it's slightly more line distance to travel : at the start this isn't too relevant as the time saved from no strafe change/lag trumps it.

Mock-up image (this is using the marc-hybrid) - NOTE: I've only experience with the normal route - I just drew these lines by eye. If someone can draw/measure the routes properly feel free.


I've got some clean images of aerial views of the map so let me know if you need clean copies.
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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #97 on: December 24, 2015, 06:51:52 am »
is it possible to throw a plastik in silo through a wall?

Illu

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #98 on: December 24, 2015, 07:18:39 am »
Interestingly Ogran I had the feel Marc route didn't seem to save anything on the return but it seemed same or faster when going to Val, couldn't make sense of it then but yea this could be a possible explanation and confirmation that my feel on this was right.

Illu

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #99 on: February 01, 2016, 12:28:36 pm »
Streets Agent PAL vs NTSC for 1:11 (rel info) :nesquik:

Been meaning to do some type of review of my findings on Streets PAL for awhile now, this is quite interesting I think and could maybe also change a bit how we look at the PAL advantage thing for a few levels.

So here's the deal, PAL is slower than NTSC on Streets if you are running it with say invisibility and pure strafing and lag reduction trough lookdown, it's clearly slower, by like half a second.

However for whatever reason once boosts come into play PAL seems to be able to get 1:11 speed just as easily if not easier than NTSC. So what I think is that either PAL boosts save more than boosts on NTSC or when there's more lag NTSC loses speed compared to PAL, like lag from boosting with GL for example.

Here's a couple 1:11s for PAL and NTSC with GL cheat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOCsOZgrjTs PAL 2 guard cinema 49:07 15:1:0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaejYT4M8S4 NTSC 1 guard cinema 49:10 14:0:0

Both of these have a no rockets ending, PAL has 1 more boost but also something that looks like a slight side boost at the end, now however since the NTSC run has 1 guard cinema it is a bit faster.

Noteworthy however is the health on the PAL run though, I finish with a tiny bit more health than on the NTSC run despite taking two more hits. I noted this very clearly where on NTSC I needed to really make sure to do the boosts quick to concerve my health for 12 GL boosts while on PAL survival was rarely a problem, doing boosts quickly after one another seems to save health a little.

So yea it's still bit of a hard choice, NTSC might still be a tiny bit faster but who knows, I might go with PAL though because surviving once you have a crazy boost ratio is cake. While if you get like 3 guard boosts on NTSC you might only be able to do 1 boost before 2nd BA and then have to try to squeeze in 5 boosts at the end.

But one thing seems for sure, if you only get 1 GL on PAL 1:12 is probably even more difficult than on NTSC since without boosts PAL loses time compared to NTSC (1:14 NTSC with invisibility 0 boosts is cake but on PAL I don't think I even manage to get one) however if you get 2 GLs 1:11 is possible just like on NTSC but you don't risk dying from boosting near as much.

Also forgot to mention auto aim kicks in a bit slower on PAL but it's not a big deal, pretty minor.