Author Topic: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas  (Read 38460 times)

SGT RAGEQUIT

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #300 on: May 19, 2018, 09:28:18 AM »
1. On a decent run you would get through that door at around 15-16 seconds in, making that strat not quite viable (I believe the scientist lure was used as a LTK/DLTK strat a long time ago though)
2. You're describing an old strat
3. This is also known

I recommend spending some time going through the Obscure Happenings thread as well as this one before posting any findings. The game's been picked apart for 20 years, new members bringing something up that's actually fresh doesn't really happen nowadays.

Grav

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #301 on: May 20, 2018, 12:05:46 PM »

theres a gap under the glass in the middle and on the right side that allows you to go under with high speed when your angle/position is just right. me and henrik havent been able to find any reasonable consistent way to get through even with hacking. if you want to get it yourself its actually not hard. use pinball mode (DLTK settings with damage turned down to 0) and pause at the corner of the glass. then superboost like 20 times, unpause, and wiggle your stick violently while strafing into the glass to make you slide along the glass from end to end. after 5-10 tries you should get through

the number of boosts needed for the minimum speed is THEORETICALLY possible to obtain on Agent runs, somewhere in the vicinity of 8-9 super boosts. this would require you to enter the black room with full HP and to not get boosted while you set up the trick. potential time save is probably like 10 seconds without BA (seems doubtful) and closer to 5 seconds with BA

heres the gap i was talking about (and how I got the idea to try this):
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 04:14:23 PM by Grav »


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Grav

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #302 on: May 23, 2018, 10:53:17 AM »

this shit is the easiest throw possible it could have use for 00a or something since you do the bug throw so late in that. basically a consistency strat (although this could still be used for 23 too)

notice how i barely even have to go into the door threshold to make the throw and it still had plenty of distance on it. you can hit it from even further back too
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 10:58:38 AM by Grav »


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Clichejon

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #303 on: May 23, 2018, 11:16:16 AM »
Nice find Grav

AForgottenEvent

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #304 on: May 23, 2018, 01:52:38 PM »
Whenever I see a bug throw I have to restrain myself from yelling YEET loudly. I need help.

Joris

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #305 on: May 26, 2018, 07:59:00 PM »
Facility "One mine strat"
I thinked about this strat when i joined the Elite in September 2017 but i quickly gave up because i thought it was a bad idea. Also i don't think i'm the first person to have  this idea but whatever.
In facility we have 5 mines - (3 for boosting Bond and 2 for blowing up the tanks).
I don't know how many time does a boost with a mine saves but i assume that it saves ~0.3s (same as a good boost from a guard)
so instead of using 3 mines to boost Bond and 2 for the tanks, why not just use 1 for the tanks and 4 to boost Bond?

With 4 self mine boosts we could do:
1 boost in the hallway + 3 boosts in the labs, or
1 boost in the vents + KF7 lure strat+ 3 boosts in the labs.


The difficult part is blowing up the tanks with 1 mine. You need to have a good Trev, warp the door to the tank room with the KF7 and shoot 4 tanks with the KF7 to blow them up very quickly (be careful to not hurt yourself with the little explosions otherwise you will lose too much time) ,then switch to the mine and throw it on the exact spot where i did on the video and detonate it as early as you can (you can boost yourself to the exit of the level faster).
This trick is very difficult to pull off because there is so much ways to mess up, you have to be REALLY fast so the objective B completes in the fade, and it's very difficult to place the mine correctly and fast enough (but i think i struggled a lot because i did this on 1.1 and looking down to throw the mine takes ages with 1.1 compared to 1.2), you can also exit the level too early and objective C will fail. It's also easy to die, 4 mine boosts + the last boost in the tanks makes a ton of damage (i don't even know if a boost in the vents + 3 boosts in the labs + one boost in the tanks is survivable), and you also need more ammo to shoot the 4 tanks. So this strat is not doable on SA/00A.
Overall i think this strategy is maybe too difficult, but i still wanted to share it. And if you are skilled enough, don't hesitate to try it and make your own opinion about it.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 10:16:37 PM by JORIS »

Alec M.

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #306 on: May 28, 2018, 09:57:55 PM »
The difficult part is losing so much time.
This trick is very difficult to pull off because there is so much time loss.
Overall i think this strategy is maybe too difficult much loss, but i still wanted to share it. And if you are skilled enough of a person to waste your time willingly, don't hesitate to try it and make your own opinion about it.

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MaxDegen

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #307 on: May 29, 2018, 12:26:03 AM »

Potential faster setup for MF strat? Would need to be looked into more.

Wyst3r

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #308 on: May 29, 2018, 09:18:58 AM »
It's well known that the MF guard can get stuck that way. The problem is that it's very inconsistent and despite many attempts I never found a good setup (except current one of course).
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 09:24:14 AM by Wyst3r »

Ray Ruane

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #309 on: June 07, 2018, 09:20:29 AM »
Has anybody ever thought of using the r-lean technique with the tracking bug on Frigate before?! As soon as you get to the first flight of stairs you can throw the tracking bug and run to the door and open it so you're still constantly looking at it. This saves you waiting for the tracking bug to land.

It mightn't even work. Just an idea.

Clichejon

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #310 on: June 07, 2018, 12:20:02 PM »
Has anybody ever thought of using the r-lean technique with the tracking bug on Frigate before?! As soon as you get to the first flight of stairs you can throw the tracking bug and run to the door and open it so you're still constantly looking at it. This saves you waiting for the tracking bug to land.

It mightn't even work. Just an idea.

I had this idea too, but I believe the helicopter isn’t loaded for the throw to work.

Boss

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #311 on: June 07, 2018, 04:05:52 PM »
You want to do the bug throw after saving the hostages in order to give them enough time to escape.

ohmss

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #312 on: June 07, 2018, 04:58:47 PM »
An impossible strat that would lose at least 5 seconds ... amazing ^^

AForgottenEvent

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #313 on: June 10, 2018, 06:33:03 PM »
I don't remember how I stumbled upon this vid, but Illu's aztec ltk 223 might have an accidental 1-guard glass in it. He lures 3 guards, but only one is anywhere near the glass when it opens. I'm not terribly knowledgable on the technical side of GE, but with all of the SZ discussion I noticed that this was somewhat off.

http://www.thengamer.com/GE/19-Aztec/Illu%20-%20Aztec%20LTK%202.23.wmv (happens at around 0:55 in)

iriebutler

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #314 on: June 10, 2018, 11:17:37 PM »
Looks to me like as he was hiding and shooting, the left guard that helped open the glass ran to the left. Doesn't look very promising that one guard did it
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Grav

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #315 on: July 06, 2018, 08:32:29 PM »


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Whiteted

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #316 on: July 09, 2018, 03:51:45 PM »
Surface 1 agent: shoot the locks through the trees.

I've been trying to actually become a GE speedrunner today and I managed a respectable ( :v ) 1:09 on surface 1 agent. Thanks to discord I worked out what was wrong with my ladder warp and so my issue finally had become locks. I've already got my own method of using the sniper from the left side and spinning about but I didn't think that was silly enough tbh.

So I booted up my lua HUD and sure enough you can shoot the locks through the tree line. The constraints seem to be:
  • Must be reasonably close (I think this is to load them, see Wyster's TAS of surface 2 cameras for what is probably the same distance)
  • Must not hit the floor tiles on the other side of the tree line

None of the bullets will hit the circular thing.

The crucial thing to note is that running forwards isn't 'too much' slower than strafing. At full speed I think it's about 75%? I can't find the thread with the values, so we'll make some up: If we took them out on the trot in 3.5s say, while heading roughly the way we want to go, it would only lose 1s. Theoretically some of the shots could even be made in full strafe, heading almost along the current route.

I'm confident it would be a useful TAS strat, and potentially even humanly possible. Spraying with a kf7 on the final bit of wall might even do something.

Thoughts?

mw

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #317 on: July 09, 2018, 04:11:06 PM »
Icy showed that this works almost three years ago.

He also showed that with the RCP90 you can complete the Comms objective through the trees on Surface 2.
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Whiteted

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #318 on: July 09, 2018, 04:25:27 PM »
Oh fair. I'm surprised it's not on icy's hypothetical strats thread, it's not entirely infeasible..

And I've seen that, I was going to look into it now to see if you can do it with any weapon.

Joris

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #319 on: July 10, 2018, 07:01:16 PM »
This happened the 30/05/2018 during an S2 SA run (i was trying to dupe my 0:56)
That would be useful (especially for 00A) if we could find a way to make the guards being on theses spot on every run. (I was using 2.4)



Chris P Bacon

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #320 on: July 10, 2018, 08:22:27 PM »
How much of the first cinema did you watch?
that affects the guards greatly

Joris

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #321 on: July 11, 2018, 12:07:09 PM »
because i was playing SA i watched all cinematics, but i did the same start over and over during this session and this thing only happened once so i think it's just random.

Illu

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #322 on: July 11, 2018, 03:13:19 PM »
That does look like a potential faster 2 nade strat, particularly if you can headshoot them like that, but yea the way Boss does it is consistent, I've been playing S2 00A a bit lately and will probably play more this weekend in a GE meeting.

I found another vid of yours that looked like it had a potential timesaver though that I'm not sure is known or if it's any good.


Leave the 2nd crate guard alive before 2nd room and park far left of the door and get boosted into the room.

Boss

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #323 on: July 25, 2018, 10:59:57 PM »
While trying to run into the m-strat I found a small timesaver on Control. I'm not sure if Henrik or others know about it, but during Nat protect if you shoot her over and over in the magnum, you can slowly back her up. It might help for 3:55, but it's really a minor save at best.

Ray Ruane

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #324 on: July 30, 2018, 04:08:38 PM »
Probably been thought of already, but on Surface 2 has anybody tried luring 2 grenades and then using one to blow up the 3rd camera and then try the window shot?

Would be very difficult and inconsistent obviously but should definitely be quicker.

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #325 on: July 31, 2018, 10:28:52 AM »
Wouldn't be faster
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Ogran

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #326 on: August 05, 2018, 01:31:27 PM »
Clearing out the Final Bridge on Frig SA

I posted about this a while ago, but decided to go see what's happening behind the scenes with the Lua map: Interesting results!

There are two guards standing in the final bridge room, both of these can cause some trollery at the end of a run.
The current strat is to charge the final hostage taker and pause behind the hostage; adding these two 'new' lures opens up pausing sooner without risk of boomboom, possibly taking advantage of the fastest guard death animations. (See this video for the ideal pause spot https://youtu.be/7aIfDMws3VA)

Whether this actually saves any time in the final room... Not sure? Will leave that decision to all the frigate sub-100 skilled players.
It certainly eliminates all/most risk of having the bomb blow up, getting backed as you leave and worrying about the hostage dying or getting body blocked (if this is even possible?...)

The First Lure
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMI1bZEUKl4
[Trying to pull away the left guard]

Shoot 3 bullets from your loud pistol as you come off the ramp at the start of the level.

Note: A 2nd guard can be lured if your third bullet is too late or by shooting 4 bullets. On emulator, I was able to lure only the one guard (left guard) very consistently with 3 shots.

The guard that gets pulled sadly routes his way to the bug throw area, you need to get to the agent hostage room quite fast to stop him possibly hitting you.

The Second Lure
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2v3mqK95Hg
[Trying to pull away the right guard]

You can get away with 5 bullets (as seen in the above video) but 6-9 is preferable and more consistent.

Two guards are always pulled out of the room with this and take a long journey to get to you, meaning they will not be anywhere near you for when you free the final hostage and defuse the bomb!

Huzi tried out both on NTSC-J and they worked, though the first lure interfering with the bug throw may still be a concern...

PS: Might be handy for LTK.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 03:21:36 PM by Ogran »
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IDPTheory

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #327 on: August 07, 2018, 01:26:45 PM »
Hello,
I found that on Frigate, an explosive detonated where the dot is in the pic will kill the bridge hostage taker. The hostage usually escapes very quickly and the bridge room is empty when you get there to defuse the bomb.
Obviously this requires a grenade to have been acquired in the run-up but if that's possible then would this help with consistency?

http://imgur.com/a/QOscLBm


Wuldntuliktono

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #328 on: August 07, 2018, 01:42:06 PM »
Hello,
I found that on Frigate, an explosive detonated where the dot is in the pic will kill the bridge hostage taker. The hostage usually escapes very quickly and the bridge room is empty when you get there to defuse the bomb.
Obviously this requires a grenade to have been acquired in the run-up but if that's possible then would this help with consistency?

http://imgur.com/a/QOscLBm
Not sure this is viable seeing as how on sa or 00 you run past this spot 2 seconds into a run before you even encounter a single guard and dont pass by this spot again till after the bridge. Plus on 00 you shoot here to lure the guards out before you enter the basement!

IDPTheory

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #329 on: August 07, 2018, 02:20:02 PM »
OK, thanks I've been doing the bridge last on SA and 00 so I need to update my route. Perhaps this was better suited to a different thread but it does work if you're ever bored enough to try :)

Wuldntuliktono

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #330 on: August 07, 2018, 03:34:46 PM »
Everybody does the bridge last.

Wyst3r

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #331 on: August 10, 2018, 12:23:22 PM »
Had alot of success today doing a wider approach to the glass, as seen in my 1:40/1:35:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6tUb65IuXo

If the guard kneels you usually get through unscathed. Otherwise you get hit like once and still get a clean upload. It's fairly rare to get screwed over, though it did happen 2-3 times this session.

Also worth mentioning that my 1:35 SA had some stucks, possibly opening up for WR potential on 00A if you're willing to run the start (I tried this a bit before and it's definitely possible, although not super easy of course, ammo is a bit annoying too, but the 99% glass odds might make up for it).

Edit: 00A running strat proof of concept:

« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 06:55:17 AM by Wyst3r »

Wodahs-Reklaw

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #332 on: August 11, 2018, 12:22:04 PM »
Nice. I can see the SA strat being used with a BA skip, maybe the same for 00A (but that seems quite a bit more unlikely)
Daniel Wodahs-Relklaw Coelho

Xerxes

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #333 on: August 28, 2018, 06:26:11 AM »
It could simply be my computer - but in Boss's new Aztec SA vid - is there like a kill-warp type thing at :23?


iriebutler

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #334 on: August 28, 2018, 07:10:31 AM »
No, what you see happens all the time
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Whiteted

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #335 on: September 12, 2018, 05:45:16 PM »
2nd cinema animation cutting, particularly caverns
Tiny but free time save and easier beginning on caverns.



On most levels when the second cinema plays (and swirls in on Bond), Bond performs some animation. When you interrupt this then the screen fades to black. On the frame that you gain control, Bond's animation is stopped, but the animation may have moved him a bit.

The main place this can be seen is on caverns, where if you open the doors after the 2nd cinema plays out, Trev is the first guard visible. If instead you cut the cinema immediately, you are 'significantly' further right, and so you first see the left most guard, and then Trev. It's sneaky because it looks like Bond just stands up but he actually steps back and left (and wobbles about in the process).

I looked at all the levels briefly to see what the benefits could be and whether it seems to be used. Red cut early, green late / watch all for small benefit, yellow cut in the middle:
  • Facility & Frigate & Bunker 2 & Archives & Streets & Depot & Control & Aztec & Eygpt
    => No animation.
  • Statue & Cradle
    => Barely an animation & irrel
  • Dam
    => Small movement forward, but a longgg intro. Probably not even worth it for 52.
  • Runway
    => Moved mostly forward, not where we want to go, makes nade pickup harder?
    => Unsurprisingly known about
  • Surface 1
    => Animation is very good
  • Bunker 1
    => Really nice, cut very precisely mid-animation. Used in Karl's 16.
  • Silo
    => Same as Caverns animation, probably pretty much no effect either way. Cutting it early may make it easier to get stuck on the railings.
  • * Surface 2
    => Again stepping back, so definitely don't wait it out, subject to compatibility with the strats. The main movement back is when Bond stands (mid-animation)
  • * Train
    => Carries you forward, so good to watch. Probably not relevant for the cost of watching the cinema, but a definite if you are insane enough to 2.X it.
  • ** Jungle
    => Similar to train, a good animation to watch.
     
  • *** Caverns
    => Free (very small) timesave by watching some of the first cinema to build up full speed, then (as I remember) roughly cutting the second cinema and opening the door simultaneously. This puts you slightly closer to the elevator doors, and further right. The second is less relevant for time-save, but means you can have the doors wider to fit through more easily, without Trev seeing you while in the elevator.
I haven't measured any of these movements yet and they certainly will be small, but where they have other benefits which aren't just "I've saved 1/20th of a second", or where you can get them for free by waiting the first cinema instead, or where you are after ridic times, the highlighted ones should be useful.

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #336 on: September 12, 2018, 06:02:26 PM »
  • Dam
    => Small movement forward, but a longgg intro. Probably not even worth it for 52.

Correct. Cutting the cinema here does get you faster pace runs to the double gate (due to gaining a frame at the start and also far less lag overall) however it puts the guard after the double gate in a bad position so he can't boost you.
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Alec M.

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Re: Post/Discuss new Strats/Timesavers/Ideas
« Reply #337 on: September 13, 2018, 06:56:18 AM »
  • Dam
    => Small movement forward, but a longgg intro. Probably not even worth it for 52.

Correct. Cutting the cinema here does get you faster pace runs to the double gate (due to gaining a frame at the start and also far less lag overall) however it puts the guard after the double gate in a bad position so he can't boost you.

2-boost 52 when  :v  :nesquik:
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