Author Topic: The Current State of Mario Golf  (Read 938 times)

The man who trolled and lost everything

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The Current State of Mario Golf
« on: January 25, 2015, 05:19:08 PM »
Hey guys,

First, hoping you all found this forum and were able to sign up easily.  Second of all, I think it's best if we discuss Mario Golf running as it is today and what we want to do with it.

I've messaged Pac about getting ILs set up on speedrun.com.  He's always been good with me so hopefully we can get this going without much trouble.  I'm seeing if there's a way to have both ILs and full game displayed by default.  A solid leaderboards for everything is the first step in a solid community and competition.

I also think we should decide on which versions and consoles we want to allow.  Pixels, Vtor and I are all in favor of only allowing N64.  VC is clearly advantaged in full game RTA, and in ILs I'm sure there is some advantage (being able to press A earlier on laggy holes.)

Feel free to chat about any element of the game's competition or community here.
~ S T A Y ❄ T R U E ~   |   ~ S T A Y ❄ B L E S S E D ~   |   Verax Maneret

oeji

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Re: The Current State of Mario Golf
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2015, 05:31:12 PM »
Regarding allowed consoles/versions,

I believe it would encourage more people to play if you had a separate leaderboard for VC. It took me more than a week after AGDQ to find my N64 cart, while for VC it was as easy as downloading it. Naturally the n64 will be the main category but having VC allowed could not hurt anything.

Victor

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Re: The Current State of Mario Golf
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2015, 05:46:28 PM »
Thanks for making the forums for golf! I'm glad we're starting to grow as a community. I agree that n64 should be the only system taken seriously for the reasons you stated goose. Right now I'm focused on getting sub 1:01:30, but I'll come back to speed golf every now and then for practice and WR attempts.

Oeji, I agree with your sentiment, but there's nothing stopping people from playing VC for practice until they get an N64 cart.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 05:51:50 PM by Victor »

IAmButPixels

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Re: The Current State of Mario Golf
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2015, 05:50:08 PM »
The VC debate has always been tough for me.  Although I feel like it makes things more easily accessible for new players, it also is like playing a totally separate game compared to the N64 version, especially with runs like All Courses and 100%.  Although one of  our intentions is to grow the community, I still support the N64 as the only "official" console for runs.

DeathBasket

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Re: The Current State of Mario Golf
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2015, 07:46:33 PM »
I've no problem with VC being allowed for runs that only use the in-game timer. Game time in Mario Golf is simply a frame counter so if the game is lagging, the timer slows down with it. There is no real advantage to be gained from using VC because of this. If there were anything to suggest that the game mechanics were any different due to emulation then I'd reconsider this but for now I see no reason to disallow it. Maybe I'll do a little research on this sometime.

RTA is a totally different situation and I'd estimate that in an all courses run you could save over two minutes just by playing on VC. I don't think VC times should be tracked as records for RTA runs but if enough people wanted a leaderboard just for emulator times then so be it. I don't want to discourage people from playing on whatever platform they want or have, but I've always felt that 'official' RTA records for games should only be played on a system the game runs natively on and not on an emulated version, regardless of whether or not it was 'officially released'. This way we don't end up with situations like Majora's Mask where records can only be achieved by playing on an emulator that saves literal minutes through inaccuracy. I could go on for days about this but it seems to irritate people so I won't.

One thing I actually wanted to bring up was category names. Specifically, I rather dislike having two categories with the title 'any%' and would suggest we just went with 'ring shot' and 'tournament mode' instead. I just feel that, in a game like Mario Golf, the 'any%' tag has no real meaning and should be dropped since there are several ways to reach the credits, none of which really 'beat' the game. This is pretty subjective though so I don't expect everyone will agree, but it's something to think about.

Koch

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Re: The Current State of Mario Golf
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2015, 12:35:44 AM »
faaaack. Really wish I could play some MGolf. I don't own the game anymore... I was good... maybe i'll get my hands on it again...

big ol' maybe. :p

The man who trolled and lost everything

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Re: The Current State of Mario Golf
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2015, 12:56:07 AM »
The problem I have with VC is that if we allow it for Speed Golf ILs, then it doesn't really make sense not to allow it for full game RTA runs.  Like how can we justify "oh you can't use VC for full game runs, but yeah it's fine for Speed Golf ILs."  And is it really more accessible allowing people to use VC just for Speed Golf?  I think more of the "casual" speedgamers who need accessibility would be more inclined to do RTA full games instead of Speed Golf ILs anyways.  Casual newcomers hate ILs and love RTAs.

You have to ask yourself what kind of speed community you want to build, and I think catering to the lower common denominator (the casual speedgamer who won't play a game unless he can easily play it on emulator or VC) is the wrong way to build a community.

Deathbasket - I concur with your any% qualm.  Ring Shot and Tournament Mode sound decent.  I wouldn't mind ONE any% category (any% Tournament makes the most sense) but yeah, just a matter of whatever sounds the most right to everyone.
~ S T A Y ❄ T R U E ~   |   ~ S T A Y ❄ B L E S S E D ~   |   Verax Maneret

DeathBasket

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Re: The Current State of Mario Golf
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2015, 07:53:01 AM »
I understand your argument and it does make more sense to have one set of rules for everything. While I said I don't mind VC being allowed for ILs, that doesn't mean I would have a problem with it being banned either. My reasoning for it being okay is that in-game time is counted from the frame you can start a shot to the frame the ball stops moving, and we don't yet have any proof to say that this would be any different on VC/N64 if played the same way. In RTAs you're suddenly cutting off huge amounts of time from the emulator not being able to handle things in the same way as the console. One set of runs is totally comparable, the other isn't. To me, comparability to the original console is the most important thing to think about when dealing with emulators and accessibility or 'official versions' should have nothing to do with it at all.

I know that my opinion on this does sound rather silly and that's totally okay. This is not only my decision to make and I'm just offering another perspective on it to consider before anything becomes finalised.