Author Topic: DK over Metal Mario for RTA?  (Read 868 times)

MetalYoshi

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DK over Metal Mario for RTA?
« on: January 26, 2015, 03:44:25 PM »
The thought has occurred to me that unlike Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour, you cannot skip the celebratory animations for the characters after each hole.  Also, each of these animations have different durations.  I've noticed that DK's animations are far shorter than Metal Mario's regardless of the hole result (though the most important to analyze are Birdies, Eagles & Pars, presumably in that order).  I think Bowser's are as well, but Bowser sucks (can't even hit Approaches and Wedges straight, and can't hit low) so whatever.

I've clocked the lengths of the animations (from the first frame the camera is on the character and off the cup to the last frame before the results screen fades in) as follows (Eagle/Hole-in-One/Albatross and Bogey/DB+ are interchangeable):

DK Eagle: ~2.9 seconds; Metal Mario Eagle: ~4.4 seconds
DK Birdie: ~1.8 seconds; Metal Mario Birdie: ~2.8 seconds
DK Par: ~1.8 seconds; Metal Mario Par: ~2.8 seconds
DK Bogey: ~1.6 seconds; Metal Mario Bogey: ~2.8 seconds

If you assume an 18-under round of 2 Eagles, 2 Pars & 14 Birdies (for instance), that's a savings of 19 seconds in a round from animations alone.  This could be something to consider (unless you strictly use the in-game timer for Speed Golf; then Metal is superior).

I'm using this compilation video as reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-soTbC04UM
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Re: DK over Metal Mario for RTA?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2015, 05:11:59 PM »
The Japanese players use DK (because Metal Mario isn't in the Japanese version) but their times on Speed Golf don't seem far off.  This is definitely something to be looked into.
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IAmButPixels

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Re: DK over Metal Mario for RTA?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2015, 05:33:30 PM »
This is definitely super interesting.  It would require a lot of us to re-learn how to play the game with a new character.  Could be the key to pushing All Courses to sub 1.

Victor

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Re: DK over Metal Mario for RTA?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2015, 05:37:34 PM »
I just tested this a little bit. You are right that the celebration animations are a lot faster, but it feels like the shot animations (actually hitting the ball) are quite a bit slower with dk. I'll do some testing and report back.

Okay. Just did some testing by measuring how much time passes from hitting the accuracy bar of a shot to the club actually hitting the ball.  Here are the results:

Driver:
DK - 1.41 s
Metal Mario - 0.90s

Iron:
DK - 1.36s
Metal Mario - 0.86s

Putter:
DK - 1.11s
Metal Mario - 0.91s

With the amount of shots taken during a run (~325 shots on a good run to 335 on a bad run for an average of 0.4 seconds per shot ~= 130 seconds saved through shot animations over the course of a run), I still think Metal Mario is faster.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 06:19:07 PM by Victor »

MetalYoshi

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Re: DK over Metal Mario for RTA?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2015, 06:42:28 PM »
I wasn't even thinking about the shot animations.  What are we doing, turning this game into a science?

All things put together, it still looks like Metal Mario is the overall superior character unless you can somehow play DK as perfectly (which I doubt due to lesser hitting distances, inability to hit hazards as quickly on short Par 4s, ability to under-GIR every Par 5 regardless of weather, etc).

I think sub-1 will be most easily realized by optimizing putts (i.e. hitting the upper threshold strengthwise).  Rapid-fire decision-making (e.g. should I take one extra second to ensure my second shot is within 8 feet versus within 25 feet?) can be a real deal-maker/breaker as well.
You might be getting better, but nobody cheats like Waluigi!  Got that?

DeathBasket

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Re: DK over Metal Mario for RTA?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2015, 02:10:31 PM »
I've noticed actually that the time between pressing A to complete a shot to the character actually hitting the ball is variable, and for multiple reasons. I don't know if you factored these into your timing but you probably did.
  • Camera angle - I've hit the exact same shot a few times back when I wanted to look at simple vs. dynamic camera and it seems that the spot the camera moves to before the character strikes the ball actually changes the animation length somehow. This is independent of the camera type, which itself makes little to no difference overall.
  • Shot calculation lag - when you press A to complete your shot the game always lags a little unless you're hitting right into a bunker or something (no roll time). This is because afaik it figures out the entire motion of the ball right after the button press and generates camera angles to go with it, so obviously if it's moving for a long time there will be significant lag (think Mario's Star hole 7 when missing a putt).
  • Hole lag - again after pressing A to complete the shot the game starts drawing everything in 3D on screen every frame which can slow it down a lot in some places. Pretty sure you would have tested these on the same holes under the same conditions anyway though.
It might be worthwhile doing even more extensive testing on this. I don't think Donkey Kong is really any faster though and he's certainly a little more difficult to use on the harder courses like Yoshi's Island. Also I agree with putting being the key to sub 1 hour and I've thought that for a long time. Unfortunately putting is the hardest part of the game imo and I just can't get good enough at it.

I realised I should probably make a topic to dump all the stuff I've figured out in since I still haven't got around to writing it up anywhere yet lol. One day.

Victor

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Re: DK over Metal Mario for RTA?
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2015, 11:49:28 AM »
I agree that the shot time could be quite a bit different depending on the situation.  I tried to minimize those factors by hitting close to the same shots on the same hole (Toad 1) with the same club, but i think 0.4-0.5 seconds difference in that time is too significant given how similar the shots I took were.

The driver I timed hitting a perfect shot with the 1 wood from the tee into the rough.
The iron I timed hitting a perfect shot with the 9 iron from the rough onto the green (~20 ft from the hole in both scenarios).
The putter I timed hitting that birdie putt half way between the last two major tick marks.