Re: The Goldeneye SpeedLore Series

[DYM]

You need to get the script verified by me, tbh. I have to ensure no essential details are missed out, which was the case in a handful of lores last year.

[OHMSS]

These things will always be a trade off between historical accuracy & completeness and time to market & somebody competent bothering at all. And Goose does a damn good job at publishing them with high quality, high frequency, high visibility, perfect narration and yet 99% accuracy & completeness. 100% would require a thing like speedrunhistory.wikia.com and large and competent editorial board. Maybe this could be a thing.

[RWG]

When Wouter removed his times in protest, not only did I "take" 2nd place, Boss and I each had 1:02 on 00A as WRs lol. Wouter had his 4s 0:58 untied back then.

What was the context of Wouter removing his times?  Anger at Boss or someone else not proving times?  (I'm not sure I'll be able to include this, but the screenshot helps a LOT if I do so thank you.)

June 9, 2004 - Wouter was PISSED we removed Steven Zwartjes' 1:31/2:03 and Control 00A 4:25 from the ranks ala Todd Rogers

Also what is the date this screenshot is from?

You need to get the script verified by me, tbh. I have to ensure no essential details are missed out, which was the case in a handful of lores last year.

Ace,

Here are my notes for this episode.  The vids linked are the ones I am going to show.  I have left out many times when someone tied the WR, and just shown the untied they followed up with (this happens 2 or 4 times on this level.)

PLEASE do let me know any pivotal information as most of the stuff I have about you is that you were an irrel 12 year old robot and everyone was mad when you unseated Illu's insane 54.

Ace, was your 54 00A untied WR streamed?  Is there a live highlight?

Spoiler

Episode 11  Jungle SA/00A LORE

Hello, welcome, introduce Lore

Show objectives, explain PAL/NTSC differences, explain level similarities & differences: 1) health, 2) ammo

Joshua Nash, 00 Agent 226 (Dec 8, 2015) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFQlhIrLoIo
Sterling Neblett, 00 Agent 123 (October 1999) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liTdKMEfs-A (used to prove his 121 UWR)

Wouter comes along, Wouter Jansen, Secret Agent 102 (March 29, 2001) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7WU4CYb0OU
show WR page at the time, 102/109 https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/past/2001/04/30
show 1 month later, KJ 100/105, May 2001 https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/past/2001/05/30
      -tell story of Karl dying on a 100 00A pace, and being the first to go no BA on 00A
         (Karl himself was surprised he did this because he is a self professed scaredy cat on dying levels)
      - Karl would get Agent 55 UWR in July to complete untied sweep
      - 100/105 would remain untied for OVER A YEAR AND A HALF (VERY LONG back then)

WJ would get 58/102, December 2002... Boss would tie 102 00A Oct 12, 2003

Wouter Jansen, 00 Agent 58 (December 29, 2003) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZGZRAhTZ6Q   THE STORY BEGINS

so now the records are 58/58, Boss not too thrilled that Wouter just 4 sec untied their WJBB tied
Bryan Bosshardt, Secret Agent 57 (April 9, 2004) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6xhhwYjl5E
---MAYBE show Boss' PR history from that time... https://rankings.the-elite.net/~Big+Bossman/goldeneye/history
    53/57/58 https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/past/2004/05/30  Agent now settled 3-5 sec ahead of SA/00A, SA/00A always close now
- now what would happen is OFTEN the SA and 00A WRs would fall together, at the same time...

Ilari Pekkala, 00 Agent 58 (November 17, 2006) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3f8FcVsBzA    SLAPPING THE FIRST GUARD! NEW STRAT!
Illu would tie SA 57 the same day... and get 56 SA 3 days later: Ilari Pekkala, Secret Agent 56 (November 20, 2006) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If3gm7YaN4g
COULD HE GET THE UNTIED SWEEP?  no... 1 year without any more Jungle WRs...

Ryan White, 00 Agent 58 (October 4, 2007) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVCI4HuGQvQ   (first NTSC 58, 00A WR in 4 years)
ACE would also tie 58 4 days later

A SLEEPING BEAST AWOKE

David Clemens, Secret Agent 56 (October 19, 2007) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eIa4jD_u2E
David Clemens, 00 Agent 57 (October 23, 2007) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPCfjz_QuVA   SKIPPED 58, NTSC, INSANE

Illu would tie 57 00A Nov 22, then get Ilari Pekkala, 00 Agent 56 (November 24, 2007) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQClnq3qpAM
https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/past/2007/11/24
Ilari Pekkala, Secret Agent 54 (November 25, 2007) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LP7D6fQU-g
skip ahead 1 month to show untied sweep: https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/past/2007/12/24 (Illu would get 51 A in December)

REALLY play up how 54 was the best run ever

Rayan I., Secret Agent 53 (June 12, 2008) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to66G39eKXs
Ace would tie 56 00A June 13, then Rayan I. 00 Agent 55 (June 15, 2008) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-N_LwEY5r4

and just like that, Illu's glory, GONE, FUCKED, destroyed by a robotic kid... no fun or emotion or energy
talk about value of showmanship, people caring, me and others considered 54 to be the better run for YEARS

53 would remain untied through 2008, 2009, NOT A SINGLE JUNGLE WR IN 2009

2010, a man comes along... Marc Rutzou, 00 Agent 55 (April 21, 2010) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UldIW4CEl8

no Jungle WRs in 2011...2012 Twitch era begins, Ace gets 50 Agent somehow, then
Rayan I., 00 Agent 54 (December 23, 2012) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT21K2eku98    COMPLETES Untied Sweep
FINISHED the untied sweep he started 4 years prior.

NO Jungle WRs in 2013...
 2014, Jungle SA 53 becomes the LONGEST STANDING UNTIED
Ilari Pekkala, 00 Agent 54 (August 21, 2014) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzU6hQ9VPJ4  (3:43 MONSTER ENERGY) (4:45 Jungle Master's BACK!)
Ilari Pekkala, Secret Agent 53 (August 31, 2014) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obea4KLB8bM (talks at 2:00)
Illu would tie 50 Agent

Luke Szklarz, 00 Agent 54 (August 1, 2015) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wLvG_hUwes SKIPPED 55
Dan Parker, why mate? (September 7, 2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_74r2Pqtio
Dan Parker, good level (Febryary 12, 2017) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KkjnVS1Nn8

Luke Szklarz, Secret Agent 53 (May 6, 2017) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei-AYdGWe1k (Kapap 3) (overshadowed by 135)
Daniel Coelho, 00 Agent 54 (August 23, 2017) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUssiMXcA5Y
Daniel Coelho, Secret Agent 53 (August 26, 2017) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F4M6kODPs4

Conclusion, thank you, etc

Wow Jungle SA 53 was Ace's only UWR for more than 2 years...

https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/past/2010/11/02
https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/past/2012/12/14

Clemens 53 SA failed in 2008: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM89OIKmaU8 (didn't know this existed)

Thank you Ace.

[Wyst3r]

The strat comparison vids I made could potentially help highlight the differences/timesaves that were used in the later 53/54's:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYbxqTLsm4s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3dCcMiraGc

[OHMSS]

Here are some comments on the more modern history from a famous rank 6 jungle runner!

• 2007: I am not sure this is correct but I think so: Clemens got 57 00A as UWR but did not proof it for a long time because he thought the run was so bad he'd just quickly get 56 instead (11 years later, his PR reads 57). I remember when we got the new rankings interface, people urged him that he as the champ should link all 60 proof vids to his times page, but he refused to upload the 57 because he felt the run sucked so much (cba to search the forum posts). Although it seems AZ hijacked his plans though with an unauthorized upload.
• 2008: 53 SA with the strat that Ace used (running backwards at ammo dump) is obviously super retarded and definitely better than 52 would be in 2018 imo. This is not only due to skill but also the ultra luckbox boost ratio.
• 2010 or 2011: Marc dupes the 55 00A TWR many times which, I think, was in an attempt to get his first or second UWR ever.
• 2012: Ace gets 54 00A UWR at the onset of the twitch hype. He uses a healthy new line to approach the drone in the cave after Xenia, which saves a lil time. I remember he tested a mine boost strat for that part in the same session, so I'm pretty sure it was streamed. He did the last two drones and the ammo dump in full speed, which I think is insane at the end of a great 00A run because that would never complete for me (the last GL shot goes into the void almost every time, also on PAL).
• 2014: Illu gets 54 00A TWR and also does three quick GL shots in full speed at the end. Maybe Ace and Illu know some subtle detail that I don't, because this really would never complete for me. You should ask one of them about that.
• 2014: Henrik discovers the new ending strat with the mine throw. It does not save time over Ace's and Illu's method, but because of the consistency problems outlined above, it is insanely helpful and also just feels super good to pull off.
• 2014: Illu gets 53 SA TWR with *running Xenia*. A landmark achievement with an *insane* strat, and I think the only player to successfully pull off that move to this day (let alone getting the WR with it).
• 2015: dsx's 56 00A is a notable fluke.
• 2017: A super cool yet inconsistent strat for safing two strafe changes (and thus quite some time) is proposed (VID). It's definitely an agent-only thing in practice, if even that, but should be noted when discussing the ultimate limits of the WRs. I think it's also the first documented use of 2.x on Jungle.
• 2017: Wodahs gets both TWRs with 2.2 (?).
• 2017: Luke's GL selfboost into ghost health to get the WR was great to witness during the Kapap 3 release.
• General: I don't believe the rumour about a huge PAL advantage (minus surviving on 00A). This run in fact indicates that NTSC-J is fastest.
• General: The question "is lower possible?" can clearly be answered YES. If all the top players would put in a lot of effort with 2.2 and running Xenia, I think even 2s cuts could happen.

[DYM]

Goose, excellent as always but you should never post the script the same morning (or night in your case) you plan to stream it. There was hardly any time for me to answer your questions and add anything if needed. This has been a recurring theme. Speedlores have become popular and it is crucial you don't leave out good information or spread incorrect information.

Be more organized - create a speedlore (private, perhaps) channel in your server and post your notes there.

[JDBlack21]

Just wanted to say that it's good to have the lore back Goose! Hyped for season to as well as some possible PD lores

[Quirky]

Ace does have a point. It might be wise to make a lore channel with notes on your server indeed. It does seem common you post about any last questions the day before. Maybe your busy and just had the stuff ready but if you could even a few extra days buffer, it gives a higher chance for someone to say something.

[RWG]

It is true.  Problem is that I work under pressure so I often don't start to even put notes together until 1 or 2 days before the Lore.  I will at least try now to alert everyone a week in advance which level I'm doing, so people can post cool runs or interesting facts.

Also, the latest episode is UP now!

Remarkable comment:

[Bizichyld]

Goose, I came across your YouTube videos somehow recently and they brought me back here after a nearly 15-year hiatus. I’m amazed that not only do people still speed run GE and PD, but it hotter than ever. The stories you tell of the progression of time cuts are superb and surprisingly captivating. I hope you decide to cover some PD levels in the future. Please keep up the good work.

[RWG]

Hey Bizi! Yes, I saw your comment on the last lore video... meant to reply to it.  Pretty insane to think it's been 15 years since you last played... I remember you posted a handful of times in 2005-06 as I was just joining.  Cool to have you back around and it'll be interesting to see what you can do!

We *are* planning on doing Perfect Dark episodes this year... Karl will co-host me on those.  Always a bit more challenging to get two people's schedules to line up and get it done.  But hopefully we will do it within the next 2-3 weeks; and hopefully a few episodes throughout the year.

Oh and btw, I'm going to do Bunker 2 00 Agent as February's episode.... anyone can feel free to leave vids & facts in here!

[Jimbo]

Wouter's 1:07 was part of a massive unhoard in 2003, not entirely sure why he was hoarding (does he even remember?). I sent him my PD NTSC and in return I could get access to his secret AIM getfile folder with these untied records he had, I could pick ONE, and I picked that sweet B2 untied! (I wanna say it was a 2s cut from Boss's 1:09 at the time?). Anyway, always thought it was cool being the first to see the vid.

[flukey lukey]

a few things that come to mind quickly:

- One of  if not The most technical level in the game (overall movement + shooting, combined with precise aiming , many objectives, lures, different types of doors, warp under pressure etc.)

- A space for players leading the pack to show off their stuff (I., Clemens, Rutzou)

- I. getting i think it was 58? with 1.3?? which is absolutely insane even today  (correct me if i'm wrong)

- All of the innovation / Strategy development over time is remarkable. Henrik the biggest innovator here?

- Green tying 54 is pretty intense, good chance to do a bit of a deep dive on Ludovic's Elite Profile (preface to PD lore coming soon..)

- Alex Anderson should get some love and ppl will froth if you play his insane  dupes / fails




this is a really interesting level and one of the best we've got to really show how good the elite are at this game, and how difficult this game can really get.

also how much potential there still is for an ambitious player to get untieds.

[DYM]

Ace's Handy Notes:

- Wouter's 1:07 was last run to use the slow last camera strat (get close & aim)
- Boss had the level swept 24/50/106 in 2004, and the 106 was tied by yours truly in June 2006
- I broke the 1:16:00 barrier with 105 shortly after (like a few days?) after 3 more 106 dupes, first untied (if you exclude Train SA) and the run has an insane last warp
- Just 10 days later (so early July 2006) Boss invented the clipboard strat and got 104, 103 and then 101. I think the 101 was just a few minutes after the 103 according to his WR post.
- CuteAce went into depression after this
- The next activity at WR level was late Jan/early Feb 2007, about 7 months later. I had a handful of 101 fails, some 58s (though I didn't think they were legit), even a semi-legit 56 fail but again didn't think it was too legit.
- After I got 1:01 relatively quick I decided to keep going and got 58 the next day on a run where I did not even expect it... my whole family was in the room (one of those meetings ) and I wasn't really paying much attention to the run.. when I completed the run I was like 'cool a completion lets see what it is'... I was in shock & celebrated with the HCAID (healthy cute ace indian dance).. run was with 1.3 yes (and my last 1.3 PR until mid 2013!)
- Clemens ties 58 in early 2008, so my 3s untied would not last longer than a year (no surprise.. Clemens was dominating the game)
- After my inactivity in 2010 Marc/Clemens go for 57.. you might want to talk about the end of the DC/RI era and start of the DC/MR rivalry (with B2 00A, Dam 00A, etc) around this time
- my 56 had a missed warp (for no reason) if I got 55 I likely would have stopped, but it just so happened I got 54 live (I have a picture of the chat reaction too), the 54 is on an inferior system too (I had no JAP at that time)

[Wyst3r]

- Just 10 days later (so early July 2006) Boss invented the clipboard strat and got 104, 103 and then 101. I think the 101 was just a few minutes after the 103 according to his WR post.

Actually I was the one who told Boss about the clipboard strat. I was inspired by what I believe was an old Miikka TAS of Bunker 2 SA, where he used the normal WR strat but shot a bit before entering the room with the crates to lure the clipboard guy a bit closer. This made me think that perhaps he could be lured out further and on 00A we obviously had to go through this area twice so it made alot of sense. Found this old post of mine in which I described the strat ~10 hours before Boss posted his WRs, so it would've actually been possible for someone else to have beaten him to the punch.

Also the 3 minutes later was apparently 1:04 after 1:05 tie:
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=851.msg226931#msg226931

[RWG]

Henrik - do you have any information on theoretical/TAS strats?  Any videos?  I'd like to cover some examples of possible theoretical strats that could be used to get in the low 50s or high 40s.  Different routes through the Bunker that are pretty close in time, or might be faster, anything like that.

Any vids would be much appreciated!

[Wyst3r]

Since we have to get both keys and do the lure on 00A, it kinda limits the routing possibilities. I think the TAS run showcases most of the theoretical strats:

1. Cell warp
2. Combined Safe key + Clipboard lure ("The impossible Bunker 2 00A strat")
3. Ducking to destroy 1st cam, and taking the outside route to mainframe room (and shooting 3rd cam from outside).
4. Luring safe key guard a bit closer.

The combined lure can also be accomplished by going back the same route you came from after the mainframe room:

https://youtu.be/5hTDRJN1QYw

Can't think of any others that would be worth mentioning.

Edit: Lol I just realized something that might make the "impossible" strat cake. To be continued in the strat topic...

[RWG]

In the spoilers are the notes I've compiled for this Bunker 2 00 Agent episode.  Please if anyone wants to have a look and suggest any videos, fact or anything at all I missed, which might be interesting to include, now is your time to do it!

Spoiler

Episode 12 Bunker 2 00 Agent

Hello, welcome, introduce lore (script)

Introduce Bunker 2 00A, show a slow run that gets all the objectives

xxx, 00 agent y:zz (date) link
Sterling Neblett 127 (October 23, 1999) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df1LtPJr1fE (used to prove his 125 UWR)
David Gibbons 122 (failed) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCzLhz8DzmA (last WR was in 2002, so likely from 2001 or earlier)

Eise would get 122 UWR, later tied by SN

("SZ Unties" 117, WJ ties, then) Karl Jobst 117 (May 29, 2001) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OwC0fwiIOY
Randy Buikema 116 (May 30, 2001) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcY_3GVEk5U

Wouter Jansen 115 (June 22, 2001) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpJdRCmfKj4 
RANDY WOULD TIE in January 26 2002

ALSO on JAN 26, 2002 |  Greg Lavery 114 (January 26, 2002) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCOTjCT31EI
show IMDB documentary http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1454980/
show first 90 seconds of documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK8OaYVjhTA
Karl's story (asked how much of 1.1M was luck, Lavery said about 100k worth, Karl said $5k would change his life, hinting at asking for money)

"Tim Greneby" 112, February 27, 2002... no video
Randy Buikema would tie in August 1 2002, then get 109 (August 3, 2002) no video

Wouter HOARDED for at least 2 months in early 2003
 - tell story of Jimbo  being allowed to get 1 video from his getfile
 - Jimbo got this one: Wouter Jansen 107 (March 30, 2003) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r6bshsK6nE

of course, Boss would tie on his way up, in December 2003, then
Bryan Bosshardt 106 (May 27, 2004) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLNH2tibqzw
 - was UWR when I joined, UWR for OVER 2 YEARS!!!!!   (Ace would tie in June 25, 2006)

Rayan I. 105 (June 29, 2006) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8nsjOfEV0w   ACE's FIST UNTIED WR in GOLDENEYE or PD !!!  Broke 1:15:59 barrier

Boss would tie in July 9 2006, then... clipboard strat...

Bryan Bosshardt 101 (July 13, 2006) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XGqW1ZPTaE   (GOT 105, 104, 103 before, in a matter of 4 days)
 - talk about strat refinement, was an era where there was time to be saved, etc

Ace would tie in February 3, 2007
then... Rayan I. 58 (February 4, 2007) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmW5IT-85-4  3rd EVER UNTIED in GE, INSANE, MONTH OF INSANITY!
Would only remain untied for a year.. David Clemens 58 (January 16, 2008) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5e72sz_Ft4

who is the next to be introduced???? OF COURSE, MAHHHHHHC RUTZOU!!!!

Marc ties 58 00A (August 10, 2010) |  Clem lowers it to 57 immediately (August 12, 2010) (no vid)
Marc Rutzou 57 (October 4, 2010) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB3LnSRAXQE   (shows how far ahead those three MR RI DC were of everyone else at the time)

Marc untied 56 THE NEXT DAY (October 5, 2010) (no vid)
Clemens unties 55 THE FOLLOWING DAY; David Clemens 55 (October 6, 2010) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1i76Z7odtY
 - remains untied for over a year  (tell story about song in video, Bizarre Triangle)
Marc Rutzou 55 (July 9, 2011) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiIhWIoVyns

Set up ADAM BOZON (show Silo DLTK) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv1h0b8j4C0
- strange dude, top 30 player, had 0 points on B2 SA/00A, "didn't want to spoil the level" "wanted to discover his own strat"
 Adam Bozon 130 (January 6, 2012) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR-RHJTaqsU
- talk about community, cumulative knowledge.. "could someone be out there with Untied WRs who has never been in contact?" (compare to uncontacted tribes having little technology)

Ace plays again, gets 57, 56 with a missed warp (said he might have stopped if he got 55)
Rayan I. 54 (June 17, 2013) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irSyWKQc5tc (now his 43rd GE UWR)
- would become a TOP 10 LONGEST STANDING UNTIED EVER!
 - would outlast amazing UWRs like Frigate SA 101, Surface 2 00A 125, Runway 00 Agent 35...

Alex Anderson 55 (January 26, 2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAslycagZ9k
Alex Anderson 52 (failed) (February 25, 2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4awxJVkBro4
Alex Anderson 52 (failed)(2) (March 17, 2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tfgbPpMKHg
Alex Anderson 53 pace to clipboard troll (March 10, 2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU4GpeyUiwU
Alex Anderson 55 (2) (December 14, 2017) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y99hJ7RBdSU

Ludovic Begon 54 (December 11, 2017) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YphroZztzrk
Bunker 2 00 Agent 54 would become the 6th oldest UWR ever, 1638 days old... (current LSUWR, Train 57, is 600 days shy...)

Show Sternis breakdown of 0:40 TAS? https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=15465.msg351525#msg351525
Show TAS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTafBzc5RcI&t=11m26s
Show Henrik Alternative Route: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hTDRJN1QYw

Conclusion (read script)

Ace's comments:

Spoiler

- You may or may not want to mention that I had 4 106s before 105.
- My first untied being 105 is debtable. I had Train SA 141 before Henrik unveiled the new strat and his slew of untieds (I guess that technically doesn't count and mentioning 105 as my first untied would add some 'hype'?)
- You mentioned Clemens' 0:55 remained untied for over a year (it was only 9 months)
- Minor detail about my 0:54 - it was achived on June 18 not June 17 of 2013.
- About the 1.3 comment.. I meant by 2013 every other record on my timespage was done with 1.2. 0:58 was the only remaining 1.3 record that was still on my page.
- Do talk about about how 0:54 SHOULD have been tied earlier I guess (Alex several close calls, Marc 0:54 failed last cam, 0:53 clipboard, etc in 2014/2015/2016) and it was an Act of God that prevented them from getting it, similar to Facility 0:52..

The episode will begin in roughly 20 hours from this post!

Thumbnail below:

Spoiler

[RWG]

Episode 12 is up!

Thanks to all who helped and posted some knowledge about this level!

[Scrambler Fanny]

Great episode - as always.

[deletedprofile.u]

Excellent episode!!

[RWG]

Which level should I do for the next episode?  I haven't decided yet, and have been quite distracted with other projects.

I was thinking possibly all "Cradle," but I'd need to know stuff like the exact values of damage from ZMG, nades, Trev's health, etc.

I've also had Surface 1 SA in mind for a while, but it might be inappropriate to do such a snowy level just as we enter spring.

Any suggestions are welcome, and if there's a level you really want to see, this is a good chance.

[MadmanFlechr]

I don't know if there is much interesting lore on Control, and I know the level is the longest out of all of the levels, but the idea of a possible Control skip is fascinating to me and I think covering the work that has been done to try and find it could make an interesting story on top of the WR progression. Granted I'm pretty new here but these lore episodes are the reason why I'm here now so I thought I'd mention my curiosity about this stage.

[berg]

Control? Seems like it might have a strategy evolution that could make for a good episode

[Blue Khakis]

Dam Secret or 00 Agent are worth a shout IMO

[Icy]

Egypt would be cool. It hasn't changed too much over the years and the three difficulties are nearly identical, so doing the trio could work.

[JDBlack21]

I'm with BestDoak, I'd like to see a Control episode, preferably SA/00.

[DYM]

Dam 00A would be EXCELLENT. Lots to talk about, such as Ace 1:58 controversy and false accusations by Clemens & his gang, Marc 1:55 quality & temporary LSU, basement strategy finally developed after 20 years and the Goose speedbully by Ace, Illu 1:59 and the amazing Banjo video, Marc/Clemens rivalry for 1:56, the YABT, etc. All of this coupled with the fact that it is one of the most popular levels to watch for viewers[1] would make for a very, very exciting video.

[1] source is the AceCorp stream viewer survey from 2017

[RWG]

I'm saving Dam 00A for the Season 2 finale.

I'm also saving Control Agent as it's the best level to do during GDQ... can use the protect moments to read donations.

This really only leaves S1, S2, Statue, Archives, Cradle and Egypt.

I'm kind of saving S2 for Dusky to get a WR, or at least give him time to do so.  Archives is tricky because I absolutely *must* show Karl's Aqua video, so it'll be bad for Youtube viewing... but Archives is very viable actually.  Hmmm, Archives might be the simplest & make the most sense this month.

[Quirky]

I definitely think it would be good to go the multi route with Archives, Cradle, or Egypt (I agree not appropriate to not do Control right now). While I do think Surface levels would be more appropriate for the Winter months, you did do Jungle a more appropriate Summer level in January. But I definitely at least agree on holding off S2 with Dusky's high potential for what he can do on the level.

But I think a multi difficulty with one of those 3 would work quite well.

[MadmanFlechr]

I'm also saving Control Agent as it's the best level to do during GDQ... can use the protect moments to read donations.

Does this mean you plan on doing a lore live at a GDQ? Because that sounds like an amazing idea.

[RWG]

Ok, now that I finally got another video out of the way, I'm going to focus on SpeedLore.  I have no choice but to do it in exactly 2 nights, so I have pretty much no time to prepare.

I am going to do CRADLE, all three difficulties.

I will show Agent, which really only involves WJ's 35, then GM 35, then a bunch of 35s by new players including Mouser's, which enraged Boss to go for 34.

SA/00A have their typical progression stories, culminating in the drone strat, and numerous failed quests for 35 00A until Karl got it.

I need to know the following:

- how much health does Trevelyan have on all three difficulties?
- how much damage does the ZMG do?
- how does Trev's body armour work in regards to explosions?
- how/when/who discovered the drone strategy to be viable? (I know myself and Bozon had it happen to us way back, but never turned into a viable, communicable strategy).

ANY information surrounding the Trevelyan kill and his health is paramount to this Lore, and with that simple information, I should be able to get this Lore ready to go for Friday night/Saturday morning.

[Icy]

I believe Trev's health is high enough that it requires 3 ZMG headshots on Agent, and whatever it is, is doubled for SA/00A. He's invincible until reaching one of his spots, can be hit once, and then goes invincible again, hence we do the double ZMG reload trick to do enough damage.

Trev's BA is such that he has to take 1 limb hit or better on Agent and 1 body hit on SA/00A to remove it all, and only then can he die to explosions. This is why we try to shoot him and have him burned by the drone simultaneously, and why on SA/00A, we would shoot him first, then nade him later (as seen in older runs and Boss's 00A 0:35). It's what makes the nade strat in the hut more difficult, especially with him running away.

The drone strat was known for a long time, but it appeared to be some magical, cosmic event, and was only known by Bozon and a handful of others. One day in Clemens' stream (I believe this was when he jokingly banned Boss when claiming some new Extraction Agent door warping ideas, lmao), the idea was brought up by someone and was discussed in depth by me, Randy, Wodahs, Spec, and others. Most of the findings were documented in this thread as the strategy progressed. Henrik later made a video getting into the technical details here.

The key to making the drone strat work was the idea of combining BA removal with the drone explosion simultaneously. I think the reason it went underlooked for so long is it's a far more difficult shot on SA/00A than on Agent (where we already had a Trev kill strat), the last bullet hitting the drone has to be far left enough for Trev to get hit by it, and it was fairly unknown overall.

Some other interesting videos:

Axel's wonky SA 0:39 as seen in your mysterious happenings video.
Sammy's SA 0:35 which was achieved while everyone was playing the drone strat, demonstrating how easy and underplayed Cradle 0:35s really were. There are probably more 0:35s with nades during the drone strat gold rush.
Jimbo's SA 0:34 which used the nade strat.
Marc's 00A 0:34 for some Rutzouvision / "aggressive audio"
Clemens also got completely screwed over in one of his 34 pace runs early on, but died going down the ramp. I can't find the video though.

[SimThreat]

Sammy's SA 0:35 which was achieved while everyone was playing the drone strat, demonstrating how easy and underplayed Cradle 0:35s really were. There are probably more 0:35s with nades during the drone strat gold rush.

You completely ignore the biggest issue with the level before the drone strat. Sure, it's easy to do the nade strat when you already know the drone strat. However, when you are getting 1 potential run every 30-60 mins it's a different story. You seem to be suggesting that nerves aren't a factor in this.

The irony is that nerves play the BIGGEST factor of all, in any run.

[RWG]

Icy - thank you for the extremely useful information so quickly!

One more question though: How does the "nade" strat on SA/00A work then?  Or the suicide strat?  Like, does Trev just sit there and get damaged by two pulses of the explosion?  Why doesn't he go invincible after the first pulse?

Spoiler

[flukey lukey]

linked in discord already but 2 interesting videos i have to do with Cradle are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA2pkXjfiYs

- my 1st recorded run after 8 year hiatus
- great song / LCD (lol)
- watch the "credits" for some fun history

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJyDwnyKRoU

1st ever recorded trev drone kill (on agent)
- amazingly not 34 , 35.000000
- amazing how myself + the rest of the elite didnt take this and try it on SA / 00A for the untieds back in 2013!

[SimThreat]

For the record I had like 5 or 6 36’s on ooa before I got 35. It is really bad to play with that strat because most of the time trev doesnt die. Then you get back boosted entering the hut most of the time by the drone or guard. Then if you get through both of those obstacles you have a good chance of dying on the comp.

Anyone saying that the old strat was easy are looking at history with rose tinted glases and tbh are totally clueless.

[Alka Maass]

Clemens also got completely screwed over in one of his 34 pace runs early on, but died going down the ramp. I can't find the video though.

http://www.twitch.tv/davidclemensn/v/20420914 I think this is it?

[Wyst3r]

Health: 17.0
Body Armor: 2.0

ZMG limb hit does 1.0 damage. Body does 2.0 and headshot 4.0. These values are doubled on Agent.

One more question though: How does the "nade" strat on SA/00A work then?

A single explosion pulse is enough to kill him without any previous damage, if it's close enough to remove all of his body armor. Normally the explosion does somewhere between 0.0 and 2.0 damage, but a close explosion can do more than 2.0 (dunno if a drone explosion is large enough to do that though).

Or the suicide strat?  Like, does Trev just sit there and get damaged by two pulses of the explosion?  Why doesn't he go invincible after the first pulse?

The suicide strat is quite interesting actually. I made a post/video about it here. Essentially, when your near the hut wall, Trev will be in a wierd state where he switches back and forth between running (in circles) and standing still. The invincibility flag is unset whenever he switches to standing still, so what can happen is that he gets hit by a pulse while running, becomes invincible, then switches to standing still, and becomes vulnerable again in time for the second pulse.

[Darkstar]

You may also want to briefly mention the possibility of Cradle 0:33 at the end of the speedlore, as it's inevitably going to happen sooner or later and is simply a matter of time. While Randy did experiment with a few possible strats for 0:33 that involved either shooting the console from the opposite side of the machine while running through the hut (mentioned here), or bouncing a grenade off the wall to destroy the console as you exit (mentioned here and here), the most viable strat for 0:33 proposed thus far seems to be Henrik's nade + drone kill strat (mentioned here). It essentially involves farming a grenade at the start of the level and then mixing it with a ZMG, using the ZMG to kill Trev via the drone method and then tossing the grenade over the machine to destroy the console as you run through the hut.

I know you're not crazy about TAS'ed emulator runs, but I made this proof of concept video a few days ago to demonstrate Henrik's strat being used in an actual run in order to show that Cradle 0:33 is definitely possible with it (also mentioned here). The run uses save states and rerecords, but I think it shows that Henrik's strat for Cradle 0:33 may not be as crazy as it sounds and is definitely doable on console with enough grinding.

[Icy]

A couple other interesting things you could look into if you feel you're low on content:

While explaining how annoying the older grenade strat was to grind, you could show the suicide strat as a decent alternative (although no longer useful with the drone strat). Here's a 0:43 by Ogran.

Cradle is the only level currently with easy WRs on all difficulties, which is why there are 23 people with the sweep. You can build off that a bit with the fact that you got both SA and 00A in the same night, and Andrew Wash (Learninglab) got the reverse sweep all in one night. Also the fact that lower-ranked players like Birdie and Sakuya (at the time) were two of the first to achieve 0:34s. Possibly the ugliest 0:34 with a nasty stuck at the end. You could use some of this to build off the idea of "is 0:33 possible?!"

After the drone strat was figured out, Cradle had one of the highest counts of WRs for any level on any year in history. There were more Cradle WRs in 2015 than all of 2003-2014 combined. See here.

Rich Noe got the first Agent 0:34 with one ZMG, which was really cool at the time, but kind of irrel at this point now, lol.

Part of Marc's unhoard to become champion included both Cradle 0:34s. Beforehand, it appeared Birdie had the "NTSC untied".

[SGT RAGEQUIT]

proud to be owner of the ugliest 34 

[Wouter Jansen]

Possibly the ugliest 0:34 with a nasty stuck at the end.

Is it really even a time-losing stuck? There's a spot that you can hit that triggers the end, there's a video, I think by Luke, where the level finished without going down at all.

[Darkstar]

Possibly the ugliest 0:34 with a nasty stuck at the end.

Is it really even a time-losing stuck? There's a spot that you can hit that triggers the end, there's a video, I think by Luke, where the level finished without going down at all.

From what I've gathered by TAS'ing the level, the trigger that stops the mission timer is ever so slightly below the hole in the floor (like a couple feet or so). It is possible to drop slightly and then jump back up, though (kind of like in Surface 1), so maybe that's what you're referring to.

[flicker]

Possibly the ugliest 0:34 with a nasty stuck at the end.

Is it really even a time-losing stuck? There's a spot that you can hit that triggers the end, there's a video, I think by Luke, where the level finished without going down at all.

From what I've gathered by TAS'ing the level, the trigger that stops the mission timer is ever so slightly below the hole in the floor (like a couple feet or so). It is possible to drop slightly and then jump back up, though (kind of like in Surface 1), so maybe that's what you're referring to.

Axel's wonky SA 0:39

[Darkstar]

That's definitely an interesting ending for sure. I'm guessing it was just a one-off anomaly kind of thing and not useful in practice?

EDIT: So I played around on Cradle a little and was able to trigger the fadeout countdown timer without actually dropping down through the hole (video of it here). This could explain Axel getting the ending while trying to pause out. I wasn't able to trigger the ending by simply hitting the outside corner of the hole like SGT RAGEQUIT did in his 34, though. He may have just lucked out and got a really high 34 despite the small stuck at the end.

[Wyst3r]

I guess I should mention this too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9v2EJ6Y-AU

Not really viable but fun to speculate about. Can be done from various parts of the level. If only there was some spot where the hut remains unloaded, similar to the aztec black room glitch when you load too many rooms at the same time. Don't think there is though.

[RWG]

Thank you guys for all the help with Cradle information.  I think this is shaping up really well now.  Lore will be in about 23-24 hours from now on my Twitch stream.

Here are the NOTES for this episode.  Feel free to take another look and add ANYTHING else that pops into mind that I left out.  Or suggest any other good/funny/interesting Cradle run I don't have listed which could be shown:

Spoiler

CRADLE LORE NOTES

Hello, welcome, introduce Lore  (script)

Show objectives, talk about CRADLE, why we're doing all three difficulties

Start with Agent, "this is how most of us beat Cradle back in the day..."

Cory Hanson, Agent 203 (Dec 17, 2017) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDKHPBKfKwU
- explain "instances of damage"
Aaron Morgan, 00A 43 (Feb 14, 2015) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SoUw9_2lVU  (suicide strat)
- explain suicide strat (trev gets into a weird state where he goes between standing still + running in circles, throws nades randomly while spinning)

SUI Strat:
Icy - Today at 10:51 PM
when he's in one of his spots and you're within a certain range of him, he'll randomly hurl nades at you
LUKE (CELESTE) - Today at 10:52 PM
and then he tries to run / spin or something ?
Icy - Today at 10:52 PM
yeah, when he's unloaded, he changes states rapidly from running and spinning in circles

Already in 1999, people figured out you could kill Trev on the run

Dan Dykstra, Agent 37 (Sept 14, 2001) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryLcUS2oQg0
- 6th person to get 37, Wouter untied 39, Wouter untied 38, Sterling untied 37... SN RB KJ WJ PO DD, familiar group

Wouter Jansen, Agent 36 (Sept 26, 2001) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4NRPFmppdg (10 ppl would tie it)
Wouter Jansen, Agent 35 (Dec 13, 2002) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqA66N58ePc
Graham Morris would tie, February 9 2003, Boss Sept 27 2003...
Ryan White, Agent 35 (Nov 16, 2005) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq3Pyxwt0qU
Michael K, Agent 35 (Dec 9, 2005) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMLTnEu4tPE  (IP and Cervone wouild also get it)
Bryan Bosshardt, Agent 35 (Dec 19, 2005)
 - talk about Boss getting mad that Goose/Mouser got 35s, Mouser's was particularly "bad", Boss' rage
 - any time a worse player gets a WR, Boss goes on a rampage, 4 ties quickly, resulted in 34 here

nice color #56AC8C

Wouter Jansen, SA 39 (Oct 4, 2001) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjkjRO3nDys
Posterland would tie on Dec 21, 2001, then
Peter Osterland, 00A 39 (Dec 22, 2001) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgyNLVHid18
Randy Buikema, SA 38 (Dec 27, 2001) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXfDnfgyJZI
38 SA tied by Wouter, January 02, 39 00A remained WR, tied by WJ RB Garret Selatti

in December 2002, Wouter would get 35A/37 SA/38 00A, would be tied throughout 2003 by only BOSS and Matthijs ten Ham
- show untied sweep on rankings: https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/past/2002/12/30
- Graham Morris & Boss would tie 35 A, Boss & Matthijs would tie 37/38

Jim Barret, 00A 37 (Jan 3, 2004) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot1JH8lUA04 Jimbo was only 15 years old!
- SKIPPED to 37 from 44!
- Wouter would tie on Jan 19, 2004
Wouter Jansen, SA 36 (Jan 20, 2004) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZISS7eSkl0
Boss ties 37 00A, June 2004; THEN Henrik Norgren, 37 00A (June 15, 2005) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNfgmF_2SpQ
Alex tries his hand at 00A: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZwDVwXdnok

Bryan Bosshardt, 00A 36 (Dec 21, 2005) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIDNhnw12_Q
- Boss would tie 36 SA the same day (and this was 2 days after his 34)
----------- ok now we're all caught up with A/SA/00A --------------

VERY LITTLE would change:
through to mid 2008:
34 Agent tied by Ace and Clem (Nov 2007)
36 SA tied by Goose (July 2007) Clem (Aug 2007) Ace (Nov 2007) Eddie Lovins (Feb 2008)
36 00A tied by Clem (Octo 2007) and Ace (Nov 2007)

David Clemens, 35 SA (July 15, 2008) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvmNnYzTF-g
- NO CRADLE WRS in 2009 -
Rayan I., 35 SA (April 8, 2010) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3bxBqXfaMQ
- NO Cradle WRs in 2011 -
- in 2012... Illu ties 34 Agent (November 29), Bozon ties 36 00A (March 14)
- in 2013... Wouter, Goose, Karl tie 34 Agent, nothing on SA/00A
- in 2014... Henrik, Gregor, Luke, Marc, Koch tie 34 Agent; Karl ties 35 SA & 36 00A, AND
Gregor Degenhart, 36 00A (February 28, 2014) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSs41J5OmKo

Karl Jobst, 35 00A (March 26, 2014) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCr6j6ur8qc

- 2015 -

Bryan Bosshardt, 35 00A (March 8, 2015) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQHCPMNqiXE
- Boss tied 35 SA on March 1
-----

Jim Barret, 34 Agent (April 22, 2015) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7s6Ublz9Iw (17th person to get it)
Jimbo - Today at 11:00 PM
I was delivering furniture for our stores 100 miles away
Stevens Point WI (home of Cosmo Wright, etc)
--
a PILE of people tied the 34/35/35 in 2015... 15 ppl 34 Agent, 4 others 35 SA...
(show cards of tied 35s)
- What happened??? (go over Icy's recap post thread) https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=20665.0 show vids
Luke Szklarz, 35 Agent Drone (Dec 20, 2013) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJyDwnyKRoU
Wodahs, Drone kill (Oct 11, 2015) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ6IkEInBXc
JustinDT, 40 SA Drone (Oct 11, 2015) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Vp3pcZxTc

-- The Race IS ON! --

Aaron Morgan, 35 00A (Oct 12, 2015) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0yW16q4RcI
Jim Barrett, 35 00A (Oct 12, 2015) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDPARGG8WHw (beat his 37 from 11.5 years before)
David Clemens, dies on 00A (Oct 12, 2015) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7gFHgq74ow
Dan "Swiss" Parker, 34 00A (Oct 13, 2015) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kXmTSIcbDU
Sammy Rodgers, 35 SA (Oct 14, 2015) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZKkHC5ENtY
 - nade strat, discuss the change in mentality towards the level (every run has a chance vs 1 per hour, less pressure)
David Clemens, 34 SA (Oct 15, 2015) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B2cprXw_j4
 - DC IP CW got 34 SA, DP DC IP CW got 34 00A by the end of 2015....
 - Clem took 14 days to get 00A after SA, Calle took  19 days to get SA after 00A, Illu had 1 day in between
 - Illu the 2nd to get both 34s... more 34s to come in 2016
Jim Barret, 34 SA (Sept 17, 2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B9in0IBwLI NADE UNTIED!
Jim Barret, 34 00A (Sept 27, 2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTl8vPHF6GU wow 3 34s with 3 different strats!!
Marc Rutzou, 34 00A (March 12, 2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3jKINlSSuQ Guess who's run based on audio!
Sammy Haycock, 34 00A (Sept 23, 2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYn8-P6jv-I (1 ZMG!!!)

- show current rankings with 23 ppl having the sweep https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye
some fun, Alex Anderson "Crazy Death" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2GMgH8O6c4
Icy "Glitchy Death" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV6y6BP7zlA&t=1m20s
Sammy Haycock, 34 Agent Nice Pace (Oct 13, 2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RQ798JdMUE
Cradle 33 Strat Idea 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8lhA3uVMsc
Cradle 33 Strat Idea 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P1MLoYu_u8

- wrap up, talk about 33 being maybe possible, one more discovery and another race on??
extro (script)

Lovins DLTK 1:47 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxnMZshffic (first ever completion)
Cradle DLTK slappers only by Cheesoman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpIj6E4cVbs
Bozon Cradle DLTK 50 failed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a2ebistczA
Henrik strange console thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9v2EJ6Y-AU

👍👍

[Wyst3r]

Jim Barret, 00A 37 (Jan 3, 2004) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot1JH8lUA04 Jimbo was only 15 years old!
- SKIPPED to 37 from 44!

Crazily enough, my 37 was also a skip from 44.

Edit: ...and apparently I was also 15 years old at the time. Wtf.

some fun, Alex Anderson "Crazy Death" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2GMgH8O6c4
Icy "Glitchy Death" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV6y6BP7zlA&t=1m20s

This one might be relevant when talking about glitchy endings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r82-bYejRg

[flukey lukey]

wtf that's cooked