Re: The Goldeneye SpeedLore Series

[Icy]

Looks good! Maybe mention for Palmer's Slappers Only run that he has to use PP7 for the console and that him running around the level is how Cradle DLTK far more often goes, like a game of cat and mouse.

[OHMSS]

Not terribly rel but my 38 00A was first try and after a few beers (and a 5s improvement):
https://rankings.the-elite.net/m/time/70937

And briefly after I got 36 TWR, I had a run with Clemens' hut nade strat where I died from the console with both objectives complete and what I think was 35 UWR pace. This was without serious time investment, which motivated me to go hard and I dumped 50 hours into the level that were a complete desaster (not a single run / fail of comparable quality). A few weeks later Karl got 35.

[Alka Maass]

if I'm remembering things correctly apparently Jimbo's 00 37 was recorded with a mic because he couldn't get audio capture working, and he couldn't/didn't react at the end of the run because it was frowned down upon because it was cocky so he just kept quiet

[RWG]

Thanks for the last minute additions and info!  That's good info Gregor, I may reference some of it when I show your run.

Unfortunately I think I will have to cut DLTK for this episode... perhaps a "Progression of DLTK" is in order sometime to make up for it.

[RWG]

Videos watched in Cradle episode (list is too long for Youtube description)

Cory Hanson, Agent 203 (Dec 17, 2017) 1:33 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDKHPBKfKwU
Aaron Morgan, 00A 43 (Feb 14, 2015) 5:42 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SoUw9_2lVU
Dan Dykstra, Agent 37 (Sept 14, 2001) 7:46 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryLcUS2oQg0
Wouter Jansen, Agent 36 (Sept 26, 2001) 9:25 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4NRPFmppdg
Wouter Jansen, Agent 35 (Dec 13, 2002) 12:07 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqA66N58ePc
Ryan White, Agent 35 (Nov 16, 2005) 13:47 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq3Pyxwt0qU
Michael K, Agent 35 (Dec 9, 2005) 15:31  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMLTnEu4tPE
Bryan Bosshardt, Agent 34 (Dec 19, 2005) 17:40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fx5U02b9OA
Wouter Jansen, SA 39 (Oct 4, 2001) 20:16 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjkjRO3nDys
Peter Osterland, 00A 39 (Dec 22, 2001) 22:32 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgyNLVHid18
Randy Buikema, SA 38 (Dec 27, 2001) 23:59 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXfDnfgyJZI
Jim Barret, 00A 37 (Jan 3, 2004) 27:13 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot1JH8lUA04
Wouter Jansen, SA 36 (Jan 20, 2004) 29:44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZISS7eSkl0
Henrik Norgren, 37 00A (June 15, 2005) 31:41 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNfgmF_2SpQ
Alex tries his hand at 00A (2005) 34:32 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZwDVwXdnok
Bryan Bosshardt, 00A 36 (Dec 21, 2005) 36:56 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIDNhnw12_Q

David Clemens, 35 SA (July 15, 2008) 39:45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvmNnYzTF-g
Rayan I., 35 SA (April 8, 2010) 42:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3bxBqXfaMQ
Gregor Degenhart, 36 00A (February 28, 2014) 45:10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSs41J5OmKo
Karl Jobst, 35 00A (March 26, 2014) 47:40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCr6j6ur8qc
Bryan Bosshardt, 35 00A (March 8, 2015) 49:56 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQHCPMNqiXE
Jim Barret, 34 Agent (April 22, 2015) 52:11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7s6Ublz9Iw

Luke Szklarz, 35 Agent Drone (Dec 20, 2013) 1:01:22 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJyDwnyKRoU
Wodahs, Drone kill (Oct 11, 2015) 1:02:16 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ6IkEInBXc
JustinDT, 40 SA Drone (Oct 11, 2015) 1:02:36 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Vp3pcZxTc
Aaron Morgan, 35 00A (Oct 12, 2015) 1:04:15 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0yW16q4RcI
Jim Barrett, 35 00A (Oct 12, 2015) 1:11:11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDPARGG8WHw
David Clemens, dies on 00A (Oct 12, 2015) 1:13:10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7gFHgq74ow
Dan "Swiss" Parker, 34 00A (Oct 13, 2015) 1:14:24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kXmTSIcbDU
Ilari Pekkala, 34 00A (Oct 15, 2015) 1:15:48 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InEuJAQRNY4
David Clemens, 34 SA (Oct 15, 2015) 1:17:52 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B2cprXw_j4
Ilari Pekkala, 34 SA (Oct 16, 2015) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lzaDV1Lwwc
Jim Barret, 34 SA (Sept 17, 2016) 1:22:58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B9in0IBwLI
Sammy Rodgers, 35 SA (Oct 14, 2015) 1:27:41 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZKkHC5ENtY
Jim Barret, 34 00A (Sept 27, 2016) 1:29:01 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTl8vPHF6GU
Marc Rutzou, 34 00A (March 12, 2016) 1:32:14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3jKINlSSuQ
Sammy Haycock, 34 00A (Sept 23, 2016) 1:33:48 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYn8-P6jv-I

Alex Anderson "Crazy Death" (2005) 1:37:26 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2GMgH8O6c4
Icy "Glitchy Death" 1:38:18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV6y6BP7zlA&t=1m20s
MadmanFlechr, Falling to Complete (March 8, 2018) 1:39:03
Henrik "Wyster" TAS Console Magic 1:40:07 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9v2EJ6Y-AU
Sammy Haycock, 34 Agent Nice Pace (Oct 13, 2016) 1:40:56 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RQ798JdMUE
Cradle 33 Strat Idea 1 1:43:33 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8lhA3uVMsc
Cradle 33 Strat Idea 2 1:43:56  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P1MLoYu_u8

[RWG]

The Cradle episode is up!

Thanks to everyone who helped out with info on this one, crammed a ton of videos into one Lore.

[RWG]

This weekend, Surface 1 Secret Agent.

Post any interesting videos & knowledge or forever hold your peace.

The thing I'm most interested in looking for would be; 1) a TAS video or thread where we discuss the merits of strafing backwards and boosting that way, only to be 2) disproven later by Henrik (strafing backwards is slightly slower.)

Also 3) any video or thread that makes the revelation about the side boost things we now use would be excellent.

Thanks!

[Gus]

147 console fail

https://youtu.be/bQglJJ56DHc

[Wyst3r]

Miikka did the TAS test of backward strafing. Should be a vid somewhere. I only proved that backwards is slower in general, not taking GL into account. Not sure if there is a good post/thread about it.

[Calle W]

Some discussion regarding front of hut vs. back of hut feels mandatory. The aspect of lag is to me a very deciding factor on this level. I tried to get 1:47 going back of the hut for several weeks, since it gave me great consistency. Every run had potential. Lag was low, but boosts were scarce. It's a trade off but it's definitely worth it if you're going for 1:49/1:48.

I also think it's valid to mention the use of japanese version due to stronger auto-aim. It doesn't make a huge difference on SA, but being able to keep lookdown while entering the first hut is a pretty decent way to reduce lag. This way you can smoothly take care of the guard while easily navigating through the hut to pick up the GL as quickly as possible. Lookdown in general is very important on this level. Obviously it's less important than on 00, due to the lack of GL boosts, but it should be mentioned.

Another note I'm thinking about is the awareness of guards and incoming boosts. SA can be tricky when it comes to self-boosting. Sometimes you might get boosted by a guard right as you fire the GL and you end up killing yourself. It can also lead to a waste of boosts. It's important to listen carefully to the guard animations, since they play a big part when it comes to gaining time. 1:46 depends on a few guard boosts.

The use of 2.X is also an interesting detail, since Surface is such a long level. I feel much more in control of my pace using 2.X compared to 1.2. I never feel like the timed gained from it gets lost at any point.

I probably have more stuff to say about this level, but this what came to mind at the moment.

[RWG]

Awesome, thank you for the info Calle... I will definitely discuss behind/in front of the hut and make sure to talk about overall reducing lag on the level.

--

Any suggestions for the subtitle of this episode would be great too... I just can't think of anything very good right now.  "The king of boosts?" "Riolo's Really Good Run?" It all sounds too troll.

[Vermin]

Any suggestions for the subtitle of this episode would be great too... I just can't think of anything very good right now.  "The king of boosts?" "Riolo's Really Good Run?" It all sounds too troll.

Gus's Gumption

[eastwood]

Riolo's Remarkably Rare & Rimy Run

Gus's Glacial Glory

Gus's Great Gaiety on the Glacier

Gus's Glee on the Glacier

Gus's Glorious Glacial Gait

Gus's Grand Gait

Gus's Glorious Gait

this is hard

[mw]

147/f/Calle

[SimThreat]

I was the first person to utilise the side GL boosts. First seen in my 1:53 videos.

[Blue Khakis]

Any suggestions for the subtitle of this episode would be great too... I just can't think of anything very good right now.  "The king of boosts?" "Riolo's Really Good Run?" It all sounds too troll.

What about something like "A Song of Ice and Fire" or "Fire in Severnaya"?

[Quirky]

I certainly never heard of gait (had to look it up) but I do like it with the all G aspect that Eastwood thought upon. Maybe utilize grenade? To expand upon some of his like

Gus's Glacial Grenade Gait
Gus's Grand Grenade Gait
Gus's Glorious Grenade Gait

For the R aspect, best I can think of is

Riolo's Ridiculous Roasted Run

[deletedprofile.u]

The Gait says GR

[RWG]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC42NgAW2U0ZF_HTUw4mE_gQ/community?lb=UgwsN7HCrMslWBtRj214AaABCQ

episode will be postponed this weekend... I have a bad headcold.  Hopefully I'll be in shape to do it next week/end.

In the meantime, any more notes & info are welcome of course.

Love the subtitle suggestions btw! Definitely getting the juices flowing for a good title, thank you!

[Icy]

Scratching the Surface: A 2.X Tale

[Vermin]

Scratching the Surface: A 2.X Tale

[DYM]

A bit late, and I'm not sure if you've already added this to the script, but you should definitely include a short piece where Clemens argued with Marc that S1 00A 1:48 would be easier than SA 1:48 and claimed he was more experienced than Marc so he was right. Marc kept a chat-log of this and posted it as the YouTube description on his SA 1:48 when he achieved it, but that YouTube video no longer exists. Perhaps Marc still has it somewhere?

https://clips.twitch.tv/SparklyReliableKimchiPeteZarollTie
https://clips.twitch.tv/HandsomeShinyYogurtMau5

[Saltkillzsnails]

Any new info on the date Goose? Looking forward to it

[RWG]

I'm leaning towards Friday night (about 48h from now.)

Henrik et co - do you have any recollection of a video made, where you demonstrate the "rooms" of Surface 1? iirc, you lured out the "keyguard" from the GL hut, got his key, then proceeded with the level to demonstrate a theoretical "GL-less" strategy.

Longshot - does anyone have Illu's S1 150s with original music, one of them he uses "Walking on Sunshine?" They are not on thengamer.com unfortunately.

[mw]

Longshot - does anyone have Illu's S1 150s with original music, one of them he uses "Walking on Sunshine?" They are not on thengamer.com unfortunately.

It's right there on the rankings mate.

[Wyst3r]

Henrik et co - do you have any recollection of a video made, where you demonstrate the "rooms" of Surface 1? iirc, you lured out the "keyguard" from the GL hut, got his key, then proceeded with the level to demonstrate a theoretical "GL-less" strategy.

I think you are referring to all TAS runs. Search for my 1:43 on youtube for the current record (3iikka's channel).

[RWG]

wtf, thanks MW, never expected it to be so hidden in plain sight.

makes sense Henrik, showing the TAS can demonstrate the idea well.

---

extractedlife007 1:57 am
how many 149s do you have
(01:57:18):     i have like 6
(01:57:23):     i think i know what 148 speed is
InkosiDeVinyl 1:57 am
(01:57:38):     ...
extractedlife007 1:57 am
(01:57:53):     you need boosts for 148
(01:57:56):     not just a clean run
(01:57:58):     a lot of boosts
(01:58:02):     which barely evber happens on sa
(01:58:19):     on 00A it is much more likely to get boosts
(01:58:23):     and tjhey are stronger, too
(01:58:28):     one 00A boost is better than a SA boost
(01:58:31):     so imaginer a 8:0 run
(01:58:33):     on 00A
(01:58:39):     that would easily be 148
(01:58:47):     so i really dont see howe 148 sa is easier
InkosiDeVinyl 1:59 am
(01:59:21):     consistensy over speed imo
extractedlife007 1:59 am
(01:59:23):     i kinda feel like trying for 00A 148 just to prove you wrong
(01:59:33):     because i guarantee you wont get sa 148
InkosiDeVinyl 1:59 am
(01:59:46):     quoted
extractedlife007 2:00 am
(02:00:06):     good
(02:00:08):     i dont care
    you dont have 1/2 the surface knowledge as me
(02:01:06):     tbh
extractedlife007 2:01 am
(02:01:35):     have you seen bryans 149
(02:01:38):     i bet you havent
InkosiDeVinyl 2:01 am
(02:01:50):     why'd you think that
extractedlife007 2:02 am
(02:02:07):     because you dont watch nearly as many runs as Ive seen
(02:02:08):     and also
(02:02:11):     if you saw his run
(02:02:12):     youd agree
(02:02:15):     that 148 00A is easier
(02:02:19):     he had a huge fucking stuck
(02:02:24):     and his rest of the run was no perfect
InkosiDeVinyl 2:02 am
(02:02:47):     so he got lucky
(02:02:49):     low lag
extractedlife007 2:02 am
(02:02:52):     lol
(02:02:53):     dude
(02:02:55):     00A IS NOT LAGGIER
(02:02:57):     AT ALL
InkosiDeVinyl 2:03 am
(02:03:05):     whatever dude
extractedlife007 2:03 am
(02:03:13):     thats like saying streets 00A is laggier
(02:03:14):     lol
(02:03:27):     ah well
(02:03:28):     sorry
(02:03:32):     i didnt mean to be a dick
extractedlife007 2:03 am
(02:03:36):     youre just annoying sometimes
(02:03:39):     when you act so confident
(02:03:47):     about stuff you dont know THAT MUCH about

[Rützou]

Hahahahaha.

A miracle Luke Pettit STILL had that quote on his computer from like 10/11.

Pretty bad knowledge from Clemens back then. RIP overconfident, aggressive, angsty 2006 - 2011 Clemens

[RWG]

Spoiler

Of all the people to get 1:48 or lower, who used 2.x and who didn't?

Marc, Clem, Goose, Ogran, I know did NOT use it

Ace, Wodahs, Calle, Gus, I know DID use 2.x

Luke and Mirror... did they use 2.x or 1.x?

EDIT - Luke has CONFIRMED they both used 1.2.

Ok, I will try to do this episode in roughly 20 hours from the mark of this POST.  Be there!

HERE are my notes on this episode... please feel free to check and suggest anything else last minute!

Spoiler

Episode 14, Surface 1 SA/00A

Hello, welcome, introduce lore (script)

Introduce S1 SA/00A, show Cory Hanson 228 SA (May 2, 2018) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbEMJp7yaos

Ben Gorman 155 SA (April 12, 2001) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZZMWHmCq9A

Karl Jobst 153 SA (July 10, 2001) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI8KcJrWi0A
- Karl would also get 153 00A same day
- Randy tied 153 SA on (August 20, 2001, just before Lookdown was discovered...
- then Boss tied 153 SA & Untied 152 00A the DAY Lookdown was discovered (August 27, 2002) (same day of Streets 157s)

- Lookdown saved about 1 sec ingame-time per every minute played, so 151 was of course possible...
Wouter Jansen 151 00A (October 14, 2002) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c_PS7sXTY4
- Boss got 151 SA the day before, Oct 13; Wouter got both 151s Oct 14, then Boss 151 00A November 7, 2002, a month later

(show WR history end of 2002) https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/past/2002/12/31
- in 2003, ONLY Graham Morris would get 151 00A, no other WRs

Bryan Bosshardt 150 SA (March 11, 2004) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7QAxIpLHeg
- Boss would untied 150 00A the following day

- in March 2005, Cervone would tie both 150s
- in March 2006, Illu would tie both 150s
**TWITCH EXCLUSIVE** Ilari Pekkala 150 00A (March 6, 2006) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ROI1sNploA
   *** Walking on Sunshine ***
- in May 2006, Goose (me) would get both 150s... Oct 2006, Jimmy Bauer both 150s, Jan 2007, CLem would get both
- show end of Jan 2007  https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/past/2007/01/31

Race to 149 is on!

Ryan White 149 SA (failed) (April 17, 2007) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVjBPYwxmi4
- explain the extra boost after hut, failed console, etc... probably worst untied fail of my career...
- I was in grade 12, end of year, graduating, prom, etc, a few sick WRs but not "much" compared to DCRIBB in summer 2007

Bryan Bosshardt 149 SA (May 21, 2007) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu6pKUT3-_w
Bryan Bosshardt 149 00A (May 22, 2007) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-6tCjWLO80

- Clem tied SA (May 23, 2007) and 00A (June 12, 2007)
- Goose (me) tied SA (July 11, 2007)... shows I should have sucked it up and grinded for 149, but alas...
- I did not get 00A 149 at the time...
- Ace would tie both 149s in 2008...

[STRATEGY DISCUSSION]

Goldeneye TAS Miikka 143 00A (September 24, 2011) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcaYA7eKMjw
- strafing backwards to boost more ended up being slower
- describe method of luring out the keyguard, getting nade ending, (have to shoot through window, no other way)
- other methods like "luring" a cabin door open, never worked (Clem claimed he got it once with invisibility on)
- people hoped we could shoot the key out of the hut... LOL?
- believe it or not, we had the currently best strategy for 149/148 etc

Conversation between Marc & Clem from 2011: https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=21674.msg453757#msg453757
Gregor "Marc & Clem singing about not capturing 148 00A" https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=843.msg364888#msg364888
Clem "looking forward to another EPIC vid!" https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=843.msg364892#msg364892
(about Silo Agent 1:01)
Trollery from the era from Eise (about Jimbo going for Dam 53) https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=843.msg362806#msg362806

Eventually Marc's 148 SA video made it out there
Marc Rutzou 148 SA (August 13, 2011) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-FvOJCv4KY
David Clemens 148 SA (August 21, 2011) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHuScR2RbSg

still neither had vid of 148 00A... Henning posts 149 00A in WR topic: https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=851.msg366903#msg366903

Ryan White 149 00A (April 14, 2012) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFQ2qdSmutA (not "really" a WR, but posted in WR topic)
(WR post at bottom of same page as Henning's post)

Show rankings as July 31, 2012: https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/past/2012/07/31

~ around Twitch era, Marc Rutzou 148 00A (August 23, 2012) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtFERzPrT3Y
- Ace ties 148 SA in Dec 2012, 148 00A in February 2013...
Rayan I. 148 00A (February 11, 2013) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wIoZcJ2sk0

Phil Bezgoubov 148 SA (August 6, 2014) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOsFOo7oLZ0  AMAZING live reaction
(does not speak until 1:10 into the video)
- PB would get 148 00A on August 9, 3 days later (shocking)

Ryan White 148 SA (August 7, 2014) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqIQskSZWvk  (0:25-2:20 hit copyright)
- the last WR among my period of insanity, summer 2014... Streets SA 154, S1 A 102, B1 00A 102... Depot 25, Silo A 101

show rankings end of 2015: https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/past/2015/12/31
- 148 SA is 8 way tied, 148 00A only three-way tied, WOW
show rankings, end of March 2016: https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/past/2016/03/30
- who are GR and CW????

Gus Riolo 148 00A (May 25, 2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mvqoh7_7mJY
Gus Riolo 147 SA (failed) (May 9, 2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQglJJ56DHc
Gus Riolo 147 SA (June 8, 2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg19H8Ju3Hs

Calle W 148 00A (September 27, 2017) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUuaheZPJL0 (BACK OF HUT!)
Calle W 147 SA (November 16, 2017) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBX-9VKiYOk

I will be doing both Secret and 00 Agent... any final thoughts... Calle? Gus?  When is 147 00A? 146 SA? Anything at all!

[SimThreat]

Hey your notes say Randy tied 1:53 in 2001, but according to the WR database, it was 2002.

[Wyst3r]

Goldeneye TAS Miikka 143 00A (September 24, 2011) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcaYA7eKMjw

Just to be clear, the TAS was still made by me, it's just uploaded to Miikka's channel.

- describe method of luring out the keyguard, getting nade ending, (have to shoot through window, no other way)

Yeah you have to destroy the window in order to load the stuff inside the hut. So you need to shoot the window 4 times and then shoot a 5th time to lure the guard. And even then you need luck manipulation to get the guard to go outside fast enough and not get stuck on the door.

- other methods like "luring" a cabin door open, never worked (Clem claimed he got it once with invisibility on)

I tried it just now and got it open with invisibility, so that's definitely possible. It usually takes a while though and if you try it without invis the guards usually stop pretty quickly after reaching the door. So it probably could work but extremely unlikely. Maybe with more than two guards though the patrolling KF7's seem to always follow you behind the hut if you hide there. Plus even if you got it open you still need a way to enter the safe hut.

- people hoped we could shoot the key out of the hut... LOL?

I found this old TAS test from 2009 where I think Simon tried to get the key out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoHJBlk72O0

Edit: Found another one - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SlwivFch_w

[DYM]

Only my 00A 1:48 is with 2.x.

[RWG]

Thanks for all the help & info on this one, it turned out really well!  A perfect length for a fascinating level.

[RWG]

Time to start looking ahead to the next episode.. Control Agent!  This episode will be very special as it is planned to take place at the NASA Marathon, on June 9th of this year.

https://nasamarathon.com/schedule/

I need to start compiling info for this episode... here's the timeline I have so far:

- prehistory, show some ancient runs
- Randy's 4:07, which was the WR for a long time (in that era)
- the next thing I know is Boss' 4:00, lowering it by using many strats, including the glass explosion & old Nat arm shot timings
- what happened between 407 and 400? Anything significant about Wouter's 404? And Boss' 402?

- 359... just Boss being a Boss
- 358 was only really tied by the creme de la creme, DC RI MR classic
- Marc had countless 357 attempts, about 100 hours worth of streaming in 2012/13... some of my favourite streams

-- the revelation --

- how exactly did we learn about the mine throw strategies? And how did Natalya's ending become so consistent with this method?  Were these done in a TAS well before 2014, but only implemented in practice then?  How exactly did it come about, from theory, to reality?
- of course the story of the race to 356, many people getting 357...
- Clem's infamous 356 webcam, then Ace ties 356 with Let it Go, really good stories tbh
- IP DC LS tie 356, then Clem gets redemption

--

Any tidbits or info about how we used to time the Nat ending? Strategies or myths we used? Any famous fails? Famous reactions?  Does Marc have a "classic" 357 fail before the mine throwing strategies?  Does Clem have a classic 357 dupe on webcam?
 Surely Ace has some stories.  Anything at all would be amazing, you guys know the drill.

Thank you for your help!  I hope this episode will be amazing and expose some new people to lore.  Control Agent is the perfect level for a marathon type setting, as I can read donations or chat with other attendees during the Nat protect downtime.

[Wyst3r]

- how exactly did we learn about the mine throw strategies? And how did Natalya's ending become so consistent with this method?  Were these done in a TAS well before 2014, but only implemented in practice then?  How exactly did it come about, from theory, to reality?

The current Control strategy probably had the longest and most unique development process of any GE/PD strategy. It was a combination of 6-7 different strats, that were developed pretty much independently, at different times and a few of them by different poeple, which all somehow converged into a single strat over the course of a few weeks. There's a ton to say about it, so I'll try to summarize it all later today.

[Aztec Exemplar]

https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=19381.0

(Trent's infamous fake control broken thread)

[flukey lukey]

great choice of level!

i'll post anything i remember in the coming days, but i always remember Dan Cervone having 3:59 was one of his standout times back then

[JDBlack21]

https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=19381.0

(Trent's infamous fake control broken thread)

I agree, you should definitely give this a mention.

[Wyst3r]

Here's a timeline of events/post/vids leading up to the current strat:

20??-??-?? - Trent discovers an alternative way of getting consistent fast Nat messages during the first encounter, by looking away and pausing, eliminating the need to shoot her. I'm sure there's a video somewhere but I was unable to find it.

2010-08-03 - Mine-through-wall glitch discovered:
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=15444.msg350776#msg350776
2012-12-18 - I upload a bunch of Control strat ideas, including alarm skip and the mine-through-wall throw to hit the far mainframe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRsIzqa9i9w
2012-12-23 - Second mine-through wall glitch to hit the last mainframe (old version):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP_84dNIDDs
2013-01-14 - I upload a vid (though discovered at some earlier point) showing an improved method of backing up Natalya, by shooting her right arm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Fha0Vw9hM
2014-01-24 - Illu re-discovers a variant of Trent's old pause trick, without the pause:
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=18518.msg397906#msg397906 (see also Trent's response)
2014-01-24 - I post my findings on how to optimize the 2nd meetup with Natalya:
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=18518.msg397932#msg397932
2014-01-25 - I come up with the modern way of doing the 1st meetup, with a variation of Trent's strat and slapping six times, I also bring up my old backing-up Nat strat:
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=18518.msg397971#msg397971
2014-02-07 - Trent breaks control
2014-02-17 - My 4:03 post, introducing the new ending strat: https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=849.msg399531#msg399531
2014-02-17 - I post the modern version of the 2nd meetup/far mainframe strat: https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=849.msg399544#msg399544
2014-02-24 - I post an image of the modern version of the mine-through-wall throw for last mainframe:
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=18518.msg399896#msg399896
2014-02-25 - Jimmy talks about ways to make Nat leave faster:
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=18518.msg399919#msg399919
2014-02-26 - Goose (re?)-discovers the Natalya brown door warp, eliminating the need for "shoot her in the leg and quickly open the door" and ideas like this:
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=18518.msg399940#msg399940

20??-??-?? - Elevator warp?

And how did Natalya's ending become so consistent with this method?

Well, there are a couple of things that can slow down Natalya. The main one being if you leave her, and she becomes unloaded, but you later load her again (usually happens on the way back from the far mainframe with the old strat, if you don't look down). Another factor is when you leave her, and what kind of animation she is doing the moment she unloads (this video explains this in detail), since this determines what speed she will have as she runs to the elevator. The navigation graph in the protection area also contains some unoptimal lines (as seen in the video above), so unloading her too early can lose some time as well. The third factor would be guards interfering with her while she's unloaded, though this is mostly out of our control.

Of course, I didn't know all of this back when I came up with the strat, but I knew enough to be able to do emulator trial-and-error to find the most consistent way of doing the ending. And in the end, I think that's the main difference. The old strat was basically just guesswork, while the new strat was developed by actually looking at memory values. Taking the BA route turned out to be the best since it minimizes any risk of players accidentally loading Natalya. Once she's unloaded, you just want to leave her alone.

Were these done in a TAS well before 2014, but only implemented in practice then?

None of this have been in any TAS before or since. I think these are the only Control TAS'es:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDMngFy9pik - Henrik 00 Agent "100 headshots" 4:06
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K783kriUwlA - Henrik Agent 3:53
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKUU2aZEGe4 - Jack 00 Agent 3:57
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5-OkQ6I_K4 - Henrik 00 Agent 3:51

It's pretty cool that my original 00A TAS, even though it was purely aimed at entertainment rather than speed, has been beaten by humans by two seconds. And the Agent TAS is "only" 3:53 despite skipping the remote mines. Of course, a modern day TAS would easily destroy all of these times. Some of these runs do a throw on the far mainframe near the end, but I'm pretty sure it's not a mine-through-wall throw but rather a very precise throw.

[RWG]

Ping.

The lore has been bumped up to June 7... which is very soon!  (I realized I had plans on the weekend so I couldn't do it on June 9.)

I'm making one last call for any interesting tidbits or videos... any funny/fail/win/cringe etc videos on Control Agent would be excellent to have.  Maybe some Marc Rutzou 357 old strat fails?  Literally ANYTHING that might be remotely interesting is very welcome.

All I have right now are the WRs and the clips from Henrik's strategy discoveries.  And possibly the Trent/broken/strategy analysis/why you can't break Control stuff.  ANYTHING else is needed, thank you!

[Aztec Exemplar]

Unsure how legit this is but here is Ace's 355 fail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MQbvNzcjGE

[RWG]

Here are the notes on the Control Agent SpeedLore:

Spoiler

Episode 15, Control Agent

Ace pic: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/136678387065290752/454192023583588352/image.png
Clem pic: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/136678387065290752/454192402270388224/IMG-20180511-WA0065.png
Clem pic to Marc: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/136678387065290752/406217031629668362/Screenshot_20180125-164104.png

Hello, welcome to SpeedLore at NASA, the series where we go over a single level over 20 years, talk about its
evolution, strategies, development & the people behind the records...

Introduce Control Agent, show OBJECTIVES screen: https://i.imgur.com/V8Sl9Qe.jpg

first ever WR claim was Steven Zwartjes, Agent 4:18, July 1998
Sterling gets 4:10, October 1999
Wouter gets 4:08, March 2001

Randy Buikema 407 (May 20, 2001) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUNzwgJT8os
- explain how the level is played in the most basic form

Bryan Bosshardt 406 (October 2, 2002) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P45sMDrt4Qk
- Boss shoots Natalya, also glass strat, obviously not a great run

Wouter gets 4:04, February 22, 2003 (maybe show) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyANoVKnEhY
Boss gets 4:02, October 18, 2003

Bryan Bosshardt 400 (June 8, 2004) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zkNpixncPo
- part of his untied sweep where he lowered 402/418/422 down to 400/413/417, 9 total untieds in June 2004
- Illu would tie years late, November 2006

Boss finishes college semester same time, asks what he should play for: https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=1027.0
- 359 wins the vote

Bryan Bosshardt 359 (December 21, 2006) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZMMcrNK0qM
- Boss never took to people tying his records lightly, insane he untied it so quickly after 2.5 years untied
- Clem would tie 359 in Dec 2007, Ace & Cervone in May 2008

David Clemens 358 (April 21, 2009) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmjx7unpY1Q
- commentary video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shbIGhLZAvQ
- original video was lost, Clem explains it in the commentary
- really just a better start and perfectly timed ending, great boosting & warps, overall EXECUTION
- Ace would tie June 2010, Marc in November 2012... only the BEST of the BEST could do it
- all of them spent nearly 100 hours each going for 357, but none could do it, some of Marc's best streams...

Doak explains why you can't break Control's timer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSxLTXlTrWY
Show WR rankings as of mid 2009: https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/past/2009/07/07
- explain total time, can it ever go below 1:11:XX? people think so ONLY with a new Control strategy

MANY people attempted to "break" control, find a new strategy, etc, to no avail
- maybe lead into Trent Hovis... circuit board strat, crazy guy
TRENT CONTROL = BROKEN  THREAD https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=19381.0
Trent "Control Broken", (February 6, 2014) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5bZC8TEUsM
- shitshow ensues on the forums
My parody only days later: https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=19392.msg399088#msg399088
Goose "Control 307", (February 9, 2014) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyiQQJznP0o
- discuss Zenith Legend, Justin Bieber Ramirez,  Cowen Hames, etc

HOWEVER, strategies were indeed beginning to flow culminating in a World Record RUSH: https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=21674.150
- in 2010, mine throws through walls were "discovered", Henrik makes it work on Control late 2012: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRsIzqa9i9w
- mine through wall to hit the last mainframe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP_84dNIDDs
-- now we don't have to take out the mainframes at the end of the level...
- backing up Natalya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Fha0Vw9hM (June 2013)
-- this strat was made realistic since we didn't have to do mainframes later
- Trent's "beginning" improvement (unload Nat) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCqTW2cbwnU (done before his troll vid)

Ryan White 400 (February 24, 2014) https://www.twitch.tv/videos/46745808 (thought it was 4:00)
- Henrik analyzes, clears up time lost after Nat 2nd meeting https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=18518.msg399895#msg399895
- Jimmy Bauer finds Nat leaving table quicker, a few posts down I re-discover brown door warp: https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=18518.msg399919#msg399919
Ryan White "The Control Screwjob" (February 28, 2014) https://www.twitch.tv/videos/46814826
- I can tell now why it was 3:59, Nat spun, etc, but a heartbreaker

ALL the pieces are there for 3:57 now..........
- Illu, Jimmy Bauer & Goose tie 3:58 with new strats... (I tie it on March 2nd... that same day.........)
Rayan I. 357 (March 2, 2014) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wwJAikXPNU (FEATURES LET IT GO)
- Jimmy Bauer, Luke Pettit, Clemens would tie...

David Clemens 356 (March 8, 2014) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZIglUetrbw (quiet until 1:30, then gets good)
- BAD VID QUALITY, would be backrolled (due to stricter proof policy after Henning)
-- was really the first time the proof policy was harshly tested/enforced... Clem got away with a couple PD UWRs before this

Rayan I. 356 (March 15, 2014) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoQCUiPpGUk (good quality proof)
- Boss, Illu & Marc would get 357 in the meantime, a "pseudo" WR
- Goose & Guillermo Alberto would get 357 the day after Ace

- A rare, recent example of a great Ace vs Clem rivalry, the dominant rivalry in Goldeneye history

Ryan White 357 (March 16, 2014) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvN8cZ8VS8c
- start at 2:30 (circle of life playing)

over the next few years, Illu, Wodahs, Luke would get 356
Wodahs WR post: https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=851.msg427265#msg427265

David Clemens 356 (October 12, 2017) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzCvqCg-6JI
- finally dupes in good quality
- re-credited with becoming the first person to untie 356 (should he be? or not?)

Show current rankings: Show current rankings: https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/stage/control

Conclusion, thanks for watching, thanks to NASA, SUBSCRIBE to my Youtube channel for more speedrunning commentary & history
STAY TRUE, & see you in the next stream or video!

LORE is in about 17 hours from this post, so if you have ANY other videos, facts, tidbits, information, stories, etc, I should or conclude, post them now or forever hold your peace!

The thumbnail:



--

Raw Links:
http://rarewrs.free.fr/goldeneye/allrecords.php?year=2018&month=06&day=06&pub=0#control
https://i.imgur.com/V8Sl9Qe.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUNzwgJT8os
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P45sMDrt4Qk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyANoVKnEhY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zkNpixncPo
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=1027.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZMMcrNK0qM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmjx7unpY1Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shbIGhLZAvQ
https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/past/2009/07/07
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSxLTXlTrWY
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=19381.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5bZC8TEUsM
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=19392.msg399088#msg399088
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyiQQJznP0o
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=21674.150
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRsIzqa9i9w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP_84dNIDDs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Fha0Vw9hM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCqTW2cbwnU
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/46745808
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=18518.msg399895#msg399895
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=18518.msg399919#msg399919
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/46814826
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wwJAikXPNU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZIglUetrbw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoQCUiPpGUk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvN8cZ8VS8c
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=851.msg427265#msg427265
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzCvqCg-6JI
https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/stage/control

Trent Circuitboard Strategy Discussion: https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=17929.msg375442#msg375442
"Control a 402 (proper)" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wwVF1ktECg (I should have shown this in Lore)

[Clichejon]

Looking forward to watching this video when it hits youtube. Even 20 years later I still feel my adrenaline levels increase when Watching someone play this level.

[DYM]

A few things:

- When you introduce Boss' 3:59, you might want to give a short introduction on what made him go for it. Dude made a thread asking what to play from three options after his semester ended and Control got the most votes. It's also a very interesting read with some brainstorming and strat ideas. He also talks about 3:57 before realizing how insane it is.

- Are you aware that the video you linked of Clemens' 3:58 is not the same one he claimed on April 21, 2009? That one was untaped and then backrolled, and my B&W 3:58 is the first proven 3:58. He claimed something happened with the webcam before revealing it was untaped. Also, obligatory. Anyway, it didn't take him too long to dupe 3:58 after I achieved it a year later and he made a nice commentary video with it as well. He talks about his VCR mishap on the first one at 2:45 in this video.

- Maybe you should talk a bit how much of a grind 3:58 was? Clemens & I spent hundreds of hours and duped 3:59 numerous times and 3:58 was at one point a tier 1 record. It still is an excellent time for the strat used back then. The fact that 3:57 never happened is a testament to how insane it is with that strat... even though we started doing quicker things like the elevator warp (I think I pioneered that). There are probably some very low 3:58s from myself, Marc and Clemens but I don't know if they're online.

- You could briefly point out a bit about how I got speedbullied by Clemens while going for 3:59 (that one was a painful struggle for me - numerous 3:59 fails while Clemens was posting 3:59 dupes and 3:57/3:58 fails.. possibly out of spite). But this fits in well with the Ace/Clemens rivalry point you would make later on.

[Saltkillzsnails]

Where can this be watched Goose are you throwing it on youtube like usual?

[渚カヲル]

Around 7:40:00 in this:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/270518081

[Ray Ruane]

Just watched the SpeedLore. Good shit as always, Goose.

A bit random, but I'm looking to lose some weight and want to know what Clemens did to get in shape. Has he ever told anybody what it took to get to where he is today?!

[OHMSS]

A bit random, but I'm looking to lose some weight and want to know what Clemens did to get in shape. Has he ever told anybody what it took to get to where he is today?!

Regular training and proper nutrition? Just a wild guess

[Ray Ruane]

I figured that. Was wondering what nutrition, what training, how long it took, etc.

[Gelonidres]

You may want to check this thread and ask there: Elite Aesthetics Invitational