Author Topic: A VR game - Seeking advice from The Elite  (Read 359 times)

michaelwbell

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A VR game - Seeking advice from The Elite
« on: March 16, 2017, 09:13:10 AM »
Dear The Elite,

I am creating a VR Stealth game titled "Espire 1: VR Operative" and I am really after your insight, suggestions on thoughts on how this could be a great competitive speedrun game.

Here is a video overview of the first prototype:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0nK1zIPycE

In a nutshell, I am creating a game with the stealth mechanics of Metal Gear Solid 2 and the objective-based mission format of Goldeneye - in VR. These 2 games are clear inspirations in the prototype video and I really want to make the most out of what VR offers gamers. I believe a game with this format would be heaps of fun on the HTC Vive and Oculus Rift, where your hands and position are tracked perfectly. All the actions you perform would have to be with your body. A game where you physically have to hide behind cover, reach out and pistol whip enemies and manually reload weapons.

Objectives such as stealing a briefcase would pose a unique challenge. If your Tranq pistol can only fire 1 round before the slide has to be manually cocked, you only have 1 bullet before you are forced to drop the case in order to reload.

I am really seeking some advice and ideas on how a game like this could be a great speedrunning game. The game is still in the prototype stage and I am forming a team to begin production. It is the best time to be solidifying the main mechanics.

Here is a quick summary of the main features I am adding to try and encourage a competitive community:

-An intricate score system. I love the system in Metal Gear Solid 5 which tallies your final mission performance based on so many factors. This is a big inspiration. It is possible to get a high-score by completing a level quickly with kills, or slowly but with no kills. It invites many inventive ways to get a top score. I aim to track as many variables as possible to generate a final score that relies on many multipliers (Shots fired, tactical takedowns performed, objectives completed, Combat alerts, triggered etc)

-Online Leaderboard and leagues. I am hoping to include a global leaderboard that would track rank and individual leagues right from within the game.

-The fact that you have to physically perform actions hopefully makes the experience more exciting and rewarding. You can achieve a better time/score by physically improving your aim or your ability to dodge behind cover, for example. I think this would make World Record videos really exciting and interesting.

-Inspiration from what makes Goldeneye great. Goldeneye's missions can be played instantly, offer 3 difficulty levels, are simple but invite many different mutators on the theme (DLTK mode, etc).


Here are some questions I'd love some input on:

-GE and PD are fairly unique in that when you shoot at an enemy, they will likely be stunned and play a damage animation. Not many shooters have ever really featured a mechanic that felt exactly like this. I see many speedrunners using this to their advantage. How important is this in an enemy AI?

-Goldeneye's WRs are based on whole seconds. Depot 00 is 47 seconds (as of March 2017). I figure the Espire 1 game should report final mission times as whole seconds too instead of showing milliseconds. Is that right? or would people prefer to see 00:47.045 for example?

-what things do you hate the most about GE/PD? Having to escort AI? too much RNG when rescuing hostages?

-What are some things you wish videogames would have to make them more speedrun-friendly or competitive? I thought being able to quickly and easily restart a mission would be one example.

-How do you make a VR game "Fair" in that people of different height, weight, etc are competing for the same record? My anwser at the moment is to make an artificial locomotion system (For playear movement) that is 100% the same speed for everyone. When you're standing still, you can add your own movement, but when your character is running down a 100 metre corridor, the movement speed is 100% the same for any player. There are a lot of factors to consider though.
Thanks for checking out my post. I am a huge GE/PD fan from the day the games were released. I used WR videos of Attack ship as reference back in 07 to try and just beat the level on Perfect Agent and have enjoyed watching the world record runs since then.

I would appreciate any and all suggestions or advice and hope to make a great Stealth title with a lot of thought applied to the competitive side of the game.

Cheers,

Michael Wentworth-Bell
(Melbourne Australia)


sɐm

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Re: A VR game - Seeking advice from The Elite
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2017, 10:41:58 AM »
as the official spokesperson of the elite, i believe that we are all too degenerate to get out of our chairs

Joshua Nash

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Re: A VR game - Seeking advice from The Elite
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2017, 11:28:00 AM »
OH MY GOD! I can't wait for this! I saw the video on facebook awhile back and thought it would be sick but couldn't find more information on it so I assumed they were just working on it. And I am really surprised to see it here. I am really looking forward to this because I love MGS and GE. I think the concept is something I have been dying for in vr. One game that is kinda close to a stealth vr game is Nock: Hidden Arrow. It is ok but kinda lame. I've thought of the idea of speedrunning vr games but haven't set to much time aside for it yet. I've done maybe one speedrun on Island 359 but there is not too much competition although sometimes I do compete against myself but I am waiting to run it until they are finished with the game. Although I love watching the game evolve, it has been fun watching the game grow from one level with 3 dinosaurs to three levels with 3 different modes and more dinosaurs. I really like the game and I am looking forward to where it will go. But before I get sidetracked I just want to let you know I am fairly new to speedrunning so I am not sure if you want all of my input, but I did grow up playing these games.

-GE and PD are fairly unique in that when you shoot at an enemy, they will likely be stunned and play a damage animation. Not many shooters have ever really featured a mechanic that felt exactly like this. I see many speedrunners using this to their advantage. How important is this in an enemy AI?
I think it makes it more realistic so I like to see it and it can become an advantage but in some cases it can be a disadvantage. So I think it could just some down to hoping you get good rng or something, but I like to have the animations.

-Goldeneye's WRs are based on whole seconds. Depot 00 is 47 seconds (as of March 2017). I figure the Espire 1 game should report final mission times as whole seconds too instead of showing milliseconds. Is that right? or would people prefer to see 00:47.045 for example?
Not sure if I have a preference. :thinking: This is kinda mixed feelings.

-what things do you hate the most about GE/PD? Having to escort AI? too much RNG when rescuing hostages?
Not sure if there is that much I hate from the game. Only things that come to mind are when I try to speedrun it. I do like escorting missions and things like that. Also speedrunners usually try to find a way to break the game to get around things like that.

-What are some things you wish videogames would have to make them more speedrun-friendly or competitive? I thought being able to quickly and easily restart a mission would be one example.
Not sure just a few things come to mind. Just in game level timer is all I can think of. But I think GE PD only did that for the in game cheat unlocks. I could be wrong though that is just my guess.

-How do you make a VR game "Fair" in that people of different height, weight, etc are competing for the same record? My anwser at the moment is to make an artificial locomotion system (For playear movement) that is 100% the same speed for everyone. When you're standing still, you can add your own movement, but when your character is running down a 100 metre corridor, the movement speed is 100% the same for any player. There are a lot of factors to consider though.
Thanks for checking out my post. I am a huge GE/PD fan from the day the games were released. I used WR videos of Attack ship as reference back in 07 to try and just beat the level on Perfect Agent and have enjoyed watching the world record runs since then.
This is where it gets tricky. I thinks its hard to make it fair because vr isn't just a controller. Also not everyone has the 3M by 3M room scale. Also not everyone will have the same hardware. But PC games are still competitively run so I could see vr being run. Also I can't imagine the work that goes into making this but in other vr games like Island 359 you can warp through walls because of room scale I just literally walk through the wall where as in Arizona Sunshine when you walk through a wall everything goes black and you cant do anything until you go back. Im also wondering if you will be using the some of the upcoming Vive accessories like Vive Tracker?

Honestly I am not looking forward to speedrunning this game as much as I am looking forward to playing it casually. However I do feel the replay value will be high if I can speedrun it. Usually I play through it casually and explore then I like to play through on a hard difficulty then I will try to speedrun it. But I do like a challenge like LTK and DLTK. I am really looking forward on seeing this game so please keep me updated! :nesquik:
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 01:40:07 PM by Joshua Nash »

Ogran

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Re: A VR game - Seeking advice from The Elite
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2017, 11:55:08 AM »
Nice prototype! I'll give my input a bit:

RE Damage Animations:
Not just damage animations, but guard reaction animations too! It levels the playing field in some cases as a guard can be a bit slower to pull out his gun - immediately do a dodge, move to cover or etc.
Having a guard react differently when hit in the limb versus the body does add to the realism; be sure to have many varied animations. Goldeneye gives some guards a body armour value to prevent stun locks early on , maybe incorporate something like this into enemies to balance difficulty (head shots should always be a kill tho imo unless they are wearing something protective over their face unless you can find an in-universe lore reason)

RE Endscreen Timer:
More precise timing would be appreciated more these days, as it saves running any third party tools; just be sure to have this timer running independent of frames.
Allowing players to turn on/off a visible timer during the level would be a great addition (similar to PD).
Format of; 00:47.676 would fine imo, could maybe lower it a decimal place.

RE Things I hate about GE:
Escorting AI isn't really a concern to me as I don't play PD - all of the GE escorting keeps you busy (we have the val strafe for statue/streets, throwing mines through walls for control ) - though I'm sure PD players will easily bring up the issue of Elvis.
The scientists dying on silo dying can kill a run if a guard pulls a nade or shoots somewhere bad - feels pretty cheap.
Hostage RNG is one for sure; If you ever include a similar mechanic, you can likely strip out the heavy RNG which will promote faster gameplay.

RE Speedrun friendly qualities:
You hit it on the head with the 'fast restart' - quitting out/resetting within 5 inputs would be great.
Skippable cutscenes (maybe even an auto skip after first completion), in-game accurate timer, reduce downtime for the sake of downtime (Natalya Protect on Control could've easily been lowered to 1min or so) & if you do have any downtime: give the player something to do.
If you do add online leader-boards just be sure they are monitored to prevent hacked times being prevalent - maybe a replay system though I'm not sure how doable that is at this point in development.

RE Fair:
I have no experience with non-phone VR - will jot stuff down if I think of anything.

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TheFlash

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Re: A VR game - Seeking advice from The Elite
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2017, 01:03:13 PM »
Wow! This is neat.  I shared this topic with two guys who have VR equipment in case they have anything to say.

-Goldeneye's WRs are based on whole seconds. Depot 00 is 47 seconds (as of March 2017). I figure the Espire 1 game should report final mission times as whole seconds too instead of showing milliseconds. Is that right? or would people prefer to see 00:47.045 for example?

I wish GE/PD for N64 had better than full second resolution.  Some levels have too many ties.

-what things do you hate the most about GE/PD? Having to escort AI? too much RNG when rescuing hostages?

It seems like if there were no RNG at all, things would be less interesting? So surely a little bit is good.

(Melbourne Australia)

:) All the cool ones are from Australia.

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Re: A VR game - Seeking advice from The Elite
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2017, 01:09:16 PM »
One of the best aspects of good stealth games like Hitman and MGS (like you mentioned) is that there are often several ways to accomplish the objective - which also makes it more fun to speedrun (imo)