Author Topic: Post Runs For Critique Here!  (Read 13012 times)

All10

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #150 on: May 26, 2018, 04:30:18 pm »
Hey guys, fairly new to the elite and I'm starting to get more confident in my runs. This is my video for Caverns Agent (1.2 and NTSC). I got a 1:08 and I know some of my lines were sloppy but I'd love some critique on the "spiral" and getting out of the elevator. Is the elevator a RNG guard issue or am I not doing something consistently? Of course any other advice or critique is welcome as well. Thanks in advance!

https://youtu.be/tqhuu7qvqEU

Luke

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #151 on: May 26, 2018, 06:40:21 pm »
LAS

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All10

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #152 on: May 27, 2018, 01:07:36 pm »


hi


Oh awesome, thanks man! This is a great in depth tutorial for this level, basically answered every question I had lol it seems easy to get guard trolled in this level too.

All10

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #153 on: May 27, 2018, 03:29:31 pm »
I heard you say at the end of the video if there's questions to ask, so I was wondering about a couple of things:

1. Have you ever noticed Trev getting hung up at his spawn sometimes? On 1.2 I've actually blown right past him before, a few (seemingly random) times and it makes the odds of getting hung on the initial double doors much lower. I wonder if there's a way to harness that consistently. Not defending the use of 1.2 on this stage by any means, the logic of using the 2X control style makes sense with the early elevator door and momentum build, however I can't help but wonder if being able to blow past Trev like that, mixed with an overall solid run (good guard RNG etc) could justify using 1.2 if it's more comfortable. I only ask because I haven't tried 2X and I've come to understand it has a tremendous learning curve. I'd love to get away with a 1.2 but I don't want to waste my time using a clearly known to be flawed strat if it doesn't make sense, I'll just get used to 2X. If you're unsure I'd be more than happy to test this theory (FOR SCIENCE! lol).

2. This is way out of my league but just to throw it out there (no pun intended) I wonder if one could possibly do one of those super mine throws down the corridor to take out the drone or even the guards in the last room. That might be waaay too wild though haha

3. Aside from guards you'd want to save for potential boosts, do you think it's advantageous to kill as many guards as possible without disrupting your line? Like, do you think the lag reduction would be worth the "effort"?

Thanks again for all the advice and even taking the time man, I genuinely appreciate it  :) and mad props in general, your times/runs are sick dude.

404

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #154 on: May 27, 2018, 04:11:54 pm »
1. Even with 1.2 you can get to the doors before Trevelyan very consistently if you do things right; I think some early ZMG shots help to lure the guards near the door which then block Trevelyan and make him run circles. But no, there is absolutely no reason to use 1.2 over 2.2 as it is a single-strafe level where you can just use cruise control and a rubber band on the second controller and never touch it again.

2. Hard to exclude but probably not possible and very much pointless for speedrunning. Every strategy that requires even the slightest detour is disqualified on a level like Caverns Agent (and I guess your idea, if possible, would require a big one, plus stopping for an R-lean throw). Also, people found ways to avoid the drone backboost with cinema timing and the guard problem can be solved by pressing Z in front of him ya know.

3. Idk, but I don't think it's a relevant thing on this level as there is hardly any lag (unlike Silo or Train). Certainly doesn't hurt to clear those on your line, but you must not do any detour for that.

- OHMSS, 103 holder :glasses: :$

All10

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #155 on: May 27, 2018, 05:49:41 pm »
1. Even with 1.2 you can get to the doors before Trevelyan very consistently if you do things right; I think some early ZMG shots help to lure the guards near the door which then block Trevelyan and make him run circles. But no, there is absolutely no reason to use 1.2 over 2.2 as it is a single-strafe level where you can just use cruise control and a rubber band on the second controller and never touch it again.

2. Hard to exclude but probably not possible and very much pointless for speedrunning. Every strategy that requires even the slightest detour is disqualified on a level like Caverns Agent (and I guess your idea, if possible, would require a big one, plus stopping for an R-lean throw). Also, people found ways to avoid the drone backboost with cinema timing and the guard problem can be solved by pressing Z in front of him ya know.

3. Idk, but I don't think it's a relevant thing on this level as there is hardly any lag (unlike Silo or Train). Certainly doesn't hurt to clear those on your line, but you must not do any detour for that.

- OHMSS, 103 holder :glasses: :$

Nice, all of that completely makes sense lol I just tried 2.2 for the first time and it's not as bad as I thought, but my speed feels way lower, am I doing something wrong? I'm holding it during the cinematic and it just feels slower for some reason. I noticed you can't use the C-Buttons to strafe, does the stick go the same speed as strafe running when it's held through the cinematic or am I missing something? Or am I just not used to it so my times are way off? Do I hold the stick at an angle? I feel like an idiot, I'm sure this is such a noob question lol and again thanks a million guys!

404

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #156 on: May 27, 2018, 06:16:14 pm »
You need to CC the stick all the way to 6 o'clock and then hold (or better: rubber band) it all the way to 3 o'clock. With an original stick you'll lose time, yes, because it doesn't have 100% dynamic range unless it is fresh out the box. Thus, most people use a GameCube stick or some other third-party shit at the second controller (it might seem gay, but it's within our rules) which solves this problem.

Also:
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=20151.0
Quote
Some Intermediate Techniques

There are a few techniques that are beyond basics, but are commonly used. The first is "2.X" or the use of a 2-controller control style. Goldeneye has a minor glitch in that you can use the second controller during opening cutscenes, which allows you to fire, open doors, and build acceleration before even starting the level. You can think of 2.X as providing a boost, which saves approximately 0.3s. There are also two types of use of 2.X: automatic and manual. Automatic 2.X is by just using one controller, and having the other cruise controlled in one direction and held with a rubber band, so that you gain the benefits of 2.X without actually using the other controller. Manual 2.X is using one controller in each hand, necessary for some levels.

An excellent starter level for 2.X is Streets Agent with a goal time of 1:14. You can play with 2.X and set the second controller to cruise control so that you're automatically straferunning to the right. This means you can play with a single controller, but gain 0.3s. Another great starter level for 2.X is Caverns Agent with a goal time of 1:04. Similar to Streets Agent, you can cruise control the controller, and during the opening cutscene, press B on the second one to open the lift door immediately to save time. Manual 2.X is considered more of an advanced skill, so by the time you should be using it, you'll already by adept with the game.

All10

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #157 on: May 27, 2018, 07:27:20 pm »
You need to CC the stick all the way to 6 o'clock and then hold (or better: rubber band) it all the way to 3 o'clock. With an original stick you'll lose time, yes, because it doesn't have 100% dynamic range unless it is fresh out the box. Thus, most people use a GameCube stick or some other third-party shit at the second controller (it might seem gay, but it's within our rules) which solves this problem.

Also:
https://forums.the-elite.net/index.php?topic=20151.0
Quote
Some Intermediate Techniques

There are a few techniques that are beyond basics, but are commonly used. The first is "2.X" or the use of a 2-controller control style. Goldeneye has a minor glitch in that you can use the second controller during opening cutscenes, which allows you to fire, open doors, and build acceleration before even starting the level. You can think of 2.X as providing a boost, which saves approximately 0.3s. There are also two types of use of 2.X: automatic and manual. Automatic 2.X is by just using one controller, and having the other cruise controlled in one direction and held with a rubber band, so that you gain the benefits of 2.X without actually using the other controller. Manual 2.X is using one controller in each hand, necessary for some levels.

An excellent starter level for 2.X is Streets Agent with a goal time of 1:14. You can play with 2.X and set the second controller to cruise control so that you're automatically straferunning to the right. This means you can play with a single controller, but gain 0.3s. Another great starter level for 2.X is Caverns Agent with a goal time of 1:04. Similar to Streets Agent, you can cruise control the controller, and during the opening cutscene, press B on the second one to open the lift door immediately to save time. Manual 2.X is considered more of an advanced skill, so by the time you should be using it, you'll already by adept with the game.

ooooh ok I get it, I just gotta have it at an angle (3 oclock)! Honestly I'm having an easy time doing it manually, this is great! Hopefully I'll be back soon with a new PB!
Also that's interesting about the third party stick actually being advantageous in this scenario, I'm glad I actually have one of those laying around, I knew I'd need it one day haha
BTW if anyone is interested, I'm on pre order for the retro fighters controller and I'm going to do an in-depth look at how it handles GE, as I haven't seen a good/reliable review of it in that context. I'll be sure to link it in the forums when I'm done!

Luke

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #158 on: May 27, 2018, 10:49:28 pm »
you will answer most of your questions simply by playing for 50+ hours and getting an understanding of the game
LAS

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All10

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #159 on: May 28, 2018, 12:31:17 am »
you will answer most of your questions simply by playing for 50+ hours and getting an understanding of the game

Oh I should clarify, I'm not new to Goldeneye itself, just the elite. I'm 30 and have been playing since I was 8 (when it came out) and got crazy into the game with running and trying to beat my PB's. I had already figured out strafe running and look downs on my own (not bragging, just stating). However when it comes to THIS level of speed running, I'm fairly new. I've been "legitimately" running it for like, 9 months or so and I've picked up a lot of things watching Goose and the record videos on the elite etc. But there's still a huge curb ahead of me for sure, but I wanted to clarify I'm not new to the game, I've easily logged hundreds of hours into this game lol the game means a lot to me and again I really appreciate all the info and advice! I just got the dot concept down and can't wait to utilize it for Egypt and Dam Agent (or really just in general lol)

LQwerty

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #160 on: June 11, 2018, 07:07:23 pm »
Going for 119, what can I do better (aside from the stair stuck).

Why you reading this?

mcgarbage

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #161 on: June 13, 2018, 10:38:56 pm »
Beginning seems mostly fine. Between the first alarm missed shots, a slightly sticky roller gate and small stuck after the lockshot I would think you lost 0.5-1.0? For the other alarms keep your eye on how far away you are when you push B. It looks like you're pushing it when you are right up against it and have to wait until they slide open until you see the alarms. Between the three alarms I would think that is a significant amount of time lost for such a tight level. I enjoyed spending time completely yoloing the doors and alarms and seeing how what sort of paces I could get, I think it helps to see where you are losing time, and how much faster zero hesitation is (obviously).
But yeah, push B from really far away.

Aztec Exemplar

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #162 on: June 14, 2018, 11:36:37 am »
- The Karl strat for the gate looked unoptimal. I could be wrong but I think Karl's 52 does it much better.

- Bad line after the button gate, too far left. Should be closer to the green guard.

- Use lookdown after the first alarm. Saves some frames and will help you get through the gate before lockshot.

- All alarms need work. First can be a lot quicker by making sure dot is right on it with the first shot. 2nd and 3rd you were too far right. Last one had a lot of hesitation. These will all get better with practice. You can use c-up to get to the 2nd/3rd alarm like my 117. It's likely a little slower but using the manhole on the floor as a guide, you can get pretty consistent.
"Time's a teacher spitting since I was tying sneakers" - Jus

smo007

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #163 on: July 17, 2018, 11:17:28 am »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gwIPYBm1jc&t=2s

I have been playing for about a month. I'm really trying to get Runway Agent :23 but I continue to get :24 every time. This is one of my 0:24, a great example of how each run goes. I know I miss the boost of the key hut when I come out in this video, but even sometimes with that boost, and 4 boosts on the runway itself I still get 0:24. I feel like sometimes my key hut is really good and my boost is really good even with some luck with the turrets and I still get 0:24. I am missing something, or doing something crucially wrong, I just don't know what. I have watched a lot of videos of 0:23 and they all look similar, some look like they're using 2.2 but I am trying to do this with 1.2 control style. Any help, tips, or advice would be really appreciated. I'm trying to get a good idea on what I'm doing wrong, or could be doing better, so I can improve. Thank you.

JDBlack21

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #164 on: July 17, 2018, 02:56:24 pm »
1.2 is easy enough to get 23. First of all, it looked like you weren't holding the c-buttons until you got control of bond. Holding the buttons in the cutscene alone should save about 0.1 or so. Your entrance to the hut could be a little tighter, and your exit it a tad too tight. Good boosts with the grenades though, one more from the drone should secure 23, but those 4 nade ones by themselves can get it as well.

Edit: Looks like you were holding c left in cutscene, which is fine too. My bad lol.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 03:04:21 pm by JDBlack21 »
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Vermin

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #165 on: July 17, 2018, 04:56:48 pm »
Hold up and c-left to start the level. Your hut entrance was really wide. You're losing the most time there.

smo007

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #166 on: July 17, 2018, 10:02:12 pm »
Got :23 Let’s go! Thank you guys

Joris

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #167 on: July 24, 2018, 08:48:39 pm »
Dam 0:53 / 1.1 lol
Got it during some any% attempts, 2 boosts + very fast gate.

watertemplefiend

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #168 on: August 19, 2018, 11:30:15 am »
http://www.twitch.tv/watertemplefiend1/v/298489729?sr=a

Was this a 17 without the slow table and failed warp. I have since duped this time, also I'm not sure what method to key grabbing to use ie. Around the back, side or front. Also as I'm here is this quality enough for proof moderation?

JDBlack21

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #169 on: August 19, 2018, 12:51:33 pm »
I think even with better table and warp it was still 18, another boost would've done it though. I wouldn't do behind the table, I just never get any fast runs doing it that way, but 17 can be done that way. I think proof it good, just clarify with proof mods.
Discord: @JDBlack#9593

watertemplefiend

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #170 on: August 19, 2018, 02:04:51 pm »
Wicked! Thanks for the info, which is faster turning whist maintaining strafe direction or doing a strafe change at the table?

JDBlack21

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #171 on: August 19, 2018, 02:26:19 pm »
Most people just stay in right strafe and turn but if you prefer left strafe you can do it that way as well. Something which has helped me is tapping c-left once while maintaining right strafe and turning at the table. 
Discord: @JDBlack#9593

Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #172 on: August 29, 2018, 02:48:48 am »

This is one of my :18s on Bunker 1 Agent, mainly want to check if the quality is up to standards, since 16 could happen any day and I'd like to get the WR before then.

Couple of things:
-I think the key pickup is really nice this way, especially with a great boost to the glass afterwards, which I sadly didn't get here.
-The black guards blocked me out which definitely cost me a shot at WR. I wiggled around them which would normally cost me 18 as well, but the run was nice enough.
-1 or 2 boosts out of the 6 did nothing for me, including in the first hallway with the one angled at the wall.
-The warp was certainly not great but the timing on the boost could have made it good. It kind of  blocked my A press a frame or two, sometimes it can just warp you through with the right timing.
-It may not be a super low 18, but probably had a shot with a better warp, better glass door entry and 5 or 6 good boosts instead of 4 good and 2 bad boosts.

I think I'm reasonably close to getting 17 once I bring it together, I have been getting many 13 quitouts and one 17 fail where I missed the key but went closer than the pickup on this run. Any major issues, including video quality? I'm using unpowered AV splitters and a cheap capture card so there is a little noise.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 03:41:14 am by Norris, Pokemon Ranger »

mw

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #173 on: August 29, 2018, 03:58:19 am »
It looks like there's a couple frame drops here and there (most easily noticeable when you pause), but nothing too major. You also should fix your deinterlacing settings, it looks pretty bad. Nothing that makes it non-proof worthy in my opinion though.

As for the run, a couple things I noticed:
- Quickpause was pretty slow, you want to do it as perfectly as possible. You missed the opportunity to build speed on the first door because it was all the way open before you finished quickpausing.
- Like you noticed, the second boost did nothing for you. You want a boost from the guard in the hallway that sends you straight down it.
- No reason to pull out pp7 at the key pickup. Just likely to create a bit more unnecessary lag.
- You want to basically yolo the pause at the glass. You spent too much time weaving around the black guards. If you do that, the run is pretty much dead already unless the start of your run was very good or you get supremely lucky.
- Warp was a bit slow. Think a bit more about how you will approach the warp. You tried to warp with the throw, which switched you to pp7. Warping to unarmed is better because unarmed coming out creates more lag than other guns. Either select unarmed before the key analyzer so that you warp straight to unarmed when you throw, or throw the key early and warp from pp7 to unarmed.
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404

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #174 on: August 29, 2018, 04:23:25 am »
- You want to basically yolo the pause at the glass. You spent too much time weaving around the black guards. If you do that, the run is pretty much dead already unless the start of your run was very good or you get supremely lucky.

This very much. Just pause in front of the guards and hope for the best (only try to sneak in if you see a good gap). Actually you can quit out if don't get boosted through while entering the pause.

And yeah, the early boost situation and the warp were really bad for 17 standards.

And watch Wodahs' tutorial if you haven't already.

watertemplefiend

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Re: Post Runs For Critique Here!
« Reply #175 on: August 30, 2018, 02:04:24 pm »
Sup sexy babes.
http://www.twitch.tv/watertemplefiend1/v/303622635?sr=a&t=958s

Just got ntsc yay! Is this quality decent enough for time rankings? The only annoying this is the wierd flash when going into menus, I have a feeling it's do with using pal tv and ntsc equipment.

<3<3 luv u all