Author Topic: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)  (Read 15440 times)

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Re: Strength of World Records Continuous Update Thread
« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2018, 09:24:25 am »
s2 46 added

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Re: Strength of World Records Continuous Update Thread
« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2018, 09:40:35 pm »
runway 28 added

depot 39 changed to 5 and egypt 44 changed to 4 per request (sry i forgot about this until now)

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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI) Thread
« Reply #52 on: August 05, 2018, 10:53:32 am »
Introducing: The Good Time Index (GTI) - see the original post for image

Idea by me, thresholds by Boss. The basic concept is that there are several non WR times that are still incredibly good and worthy of considering in a rankings method like this. So ANY TIME, WR or not, that is considered tier 4 or better will be added to your tally. This ends up being similar to like an MK64 god times list. We could make lower tiers some day but thats a lot of work and it would change too often compared to a game like mario kart, so I don't think it's worth the effort.

Here is the list that boss created to determine what times are "Good Times":


Yes, obviously the definition of a "good time" is subjective and specific to each person. I'm just calling it Good Times for simplicity's sake so don't freak out about that. Tier 4 or better was made the threshold because it is what we considered to be the closest point that demarcated a time that bad players are simply unable to get or would take an absurd amount of time to get. There is no perfect threshold though but this seemed best.

Please feel free to comment on times you disagree with on this just the same as you would for the WR tiering. There are a few differences in tiers for WR times on this GTI that I will soon update to match accordingly on the WR tiers image. For your criticisms, don't worry about whether a time is listed tier 1 or 2 or whatever, only if its t4+ or not t4+.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 11:14:28 am by Grav »

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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #53 on: August 05, 2018, 12:10:59 pm »
Fun fact and inspiration for non top 5 players:

You can get 20 WRs and 5736 points (4th place, almost 3rd place in points) without a single good time

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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #54 on: August 05, 2018, 12:38:39 pm »
I was working on this a while ago, if there is interest I can continue but I'm not sure it's worth the effort seeing as how editing a tier is pretty easy with MSPaint



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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #55 on: August 05, 2018, 12:52:24 pm »
Fun fact and inspiration for non top 5 players:

You can get 20 WRs and 5736 points (4th place, almost 3rd place in points) without a single good time

Truly inspiring :rolleyes:

How about different thresholds that allow for 6000 pts with zero good times?

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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2018, 12:55:06 pm »
looks cool ace. idk though, unless we like integrate this into the site itself i dont think it needs to be anything more than mspaint editing for now

Niiro Kitsune

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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2018, 02:14:59 pm »
Readable version for colorblind people


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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2018, 11:35:34 am »
There currently are 10 records total in tiers 6-8, while no other tier has less than 9. This raises the question if the tiered WR system aims more towards being a rough ranking of all WRs by difficulty ("Tier 8 times are the easiest") or towards assigning each WR an isolated idea about its difficulty on an abstract level ("Tier 8 times are very easy").

The former implies that records should be somewhat equally distributed between tiers, but also that records need to be re-evaluated regularly, because they might have to change tier due to other records being improved or becoming easier. The latter will likely lead to a further deflation of the easier tiers and an accumulation of records in the better tiers.

Some data that made me think about this:

Most often tied time per tier (number of ties in brackets):
T1  Train SA 1:23       (3)
T2  Silo A 1:00         (5)
T3  Facility SA 0:52    (6)
T4  Facility A 0:43     (9)
T5  Egypt SA 0:45       (10)
T6  Frigate A 0:23      (20)
T7  Surface 1 A 1:02    (36)
T8  Bunker 1 A 0:17     (117)


Second most often tied per tier:
T1  Train A 0:57        (2)
T2  (7 stages)          (2)
T3  Jungle A 0:50       (5)
T4  Control A 3:56      (5)
T5  Statue 00A 2:18     (9)
""  Egypt 00A 0:45      (9)
T6  Caverns SA 1:01     (11)
T7  Cradle SA 0:34      (30)
T8  Runway A 0:22       (111)


Number of times and average number of ties per tier:
T1      9  times    1.33  ties
T2      9  times    2.22  ties
T3      13 times    2.46  ties
T4      9  times    3.11  ties
T5      10 times    6.20  ties
T6      3  times    12.67 ties
T7      4  times    28.25 ties
T8      3  times    95.67 ties


Other noteworthy things:
  • Tier 2 has a single untied (Bunker 2 SA), while T3 has five and T4 has three
  • if records were equally distributed among tiers (meaning 7 or 8 times per tier) and ordered by ties, T8 would contain all times tied 20 times or more, T7 the remaining ones with 8+ ties and T6 all remaining records with 5+ ties.

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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2018, 01:31:58 pm »
Whether or not a time is tied doesnt tell us anything about the strength of the time. That is more dependant on who has invested time into the level.

Tiers are based on a combination of the skill and luck required to achieve a time.
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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #60 on: August 10, 2018, 02:18:14 pm »
Why exactly is Bunker 1 00A 1:02 a Tier 4 time?  It's been the record for over 7 years now, and remains tied by only the Top 2 players of all time, and myself, who spent 163h going for it.  There are still very few people with even 1:03 or 1:04, with no obvious path to 1:01... (a further Boris run, which saves surprisingly little time; or a kf7 self box boost at the end, which only saves 0.3s, are the only currently known time savers...)

Bunker 1 00A 1:02 is definitely at least a Tier 2 time... ti's comparably hard/harder than other Tier 2 times I have (Silo 00A 1:21 in particular is *much* easier); and it might even be a Tier 1 time.
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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2018, 04:12:10 pm »
Just make every record that Goose has a tier higher tbh  :nesquik:
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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2018, 05:30:54 pm »
B1 00A is about as underplayed as anything in the game. I could see 102 being tier 3 though, but not better.

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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2018, 09:12:37 pm »
3 feels about right. it should at least be on par with Fac SA 0:52
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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #64 on: August 15, 2018, 11:23:57 am »
Interestingly enough I think 1:01 is quite overdue (see my 1:01 fail and 1:02 dupe from mid 2013 - back when I devoted a lot of time to the level..). I'm not sure if any top player has experimented with Flicker's Boris running trick which could actually be a huge timesaver on the level.

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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2018, 03:00:45 am »
Can you add Egypt SA 44 to this please? I’d rate it like a 2/3 but I’m a noob so don’t ask me :nesquik:
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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #66 on: August 21, 2018, 07:40:46 pm »
just updated, loads of changes

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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #67 on: August 25, 2018, 02:33:55 pm »
Would love to view the full updated GTI sheet, don't have permission according to the link in the op tho
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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #68 on: August 25, 2018, 04:30:43 pm »
Tier Changes (Aug 21, 2018)
Changed Frig SA 0:59 from tier 2 to tier 3
Changed Jungle A 0:50 from tier 3 to tier 4
Eliminated Caverns SA 1:14
Changed Aztec 00A 1:35 from tier 1 to tier 2
Changed Aztec 00A 1:36 from tier 2 to tier 3
Changed Aztec 00A 1:37 from tier 3 to tier 4
Eliminated Aztec 00A 1:38
Added Egyptian SA 0:44 tier 3
Added Egyptian SA 0:44 tier 3

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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #69 on: September 03, 2018, 02:13:10 pm »
added b1 16 (tier 2)

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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #70 on: September 09, 2018, 08:03:01 am »
So I'm literally retarded and know nothing about this game, what's the rationale behind Streets A and SA being the same tier? 1:11 has been the WR for two and a half years and has 6 ties, 1:54 has been the WR for four years and has one tie. Is it just that underplayed?

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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #71 on: November 25, 2018, 09:26:58 am »
This ever going to be updated again?
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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #72 on: November 25, 2018, 01:35:43 pm »
Goldeneye and Perfect Dark tiers list
Made this spreadsheet, i made some little updates but it still really need to be updated (especially for Investigation) so if anyone have any request i will do the necessary modifications.


Changed: Attack Ship A from - tier 2 / to tier 1
Changed: Chicago SA from - tier 7 / to tier 6
Changed: Chicago A from - tier 1 / to tier 2
Changed: AF1 SA from - tier 1 / to tier 2
Changed: MBR PA from - tier 3 / to tier 4
Changed: Defection SA - from tier 6 / to tier 4
Changed: Jungle A - from tier 4 / to tier 5
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 07:50:53 pm by Joris »

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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #73 on: November 25, 2018, 05:02:14 pm »
I have some issues with your PD tiers:
 - I think Chicago SA/PA are the same tier, and probably more like 5 or 6 rather than 7. 25 SA requires some good OCJ still, it's equivalent to a mid 26 old strat. Only around a dozen people currently have 26 at all.
 - Chicago 14 and AFO 1:17 are clearly no longer tier 1 (if only because the way they were achieved have been exposed), although I don't really know where they'd each be placed.
 - Attack Ship 2:06 is probably not tier 1 really, I think Boss considers it tier 2.
 - MBR 1:01 is at least a tier below the 54s
 - I think most people would consider Defection SA harder than tier 6. It's a very easy time for those who can get it already, but for all but those 6-ish people it's a super hard time.

These are just the things I have experience with.
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Re: World Records Tiers & Good Time Index (GTI)
« Reply #74 on: November 25, 2018, 07:31:45 pm »
Ok i did the changes. I think attack ship should stay tier 1 because of the incredible luck needed (and also because it's been untied for more than 7 years now and there has been no strategies discovered yet to make this time easier to get) but it will surely be tier 2 when someone gets 2:07 or lower. Also i really think Chicago PA is harder than SA, sure the pace is easier but the level is much more troll (took me a few days to get 0:26 and only 40 min to get 0:25) but i don't know if 0:26 is tier 5 so for now i think tier 6 is ok.