Author Topic: The Steven Zwartjes Saga Continues - Possible Aztec Strat Vid Coming Soon?!?  (Read 20244 times)

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why tf this is such a biiiiig deal around here, goose made a lot of vids about cheaters in the past exposing facts of history about the games without any disrespect and no one gave a single shit about it. As long as he do it in respect idk why you guys are making such a big deal out of it.

Blue Khakis

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Discussion’s already over but I’d like to add some quick thoughts.

First of all I just want to say that I really enjoy watching your videos Goose. I think you’ve got a great talent for speaking about stuff in a clear, fun and engaging way. Keep up the good work!

So here’s what I think about the idea of making this kind of a video in general, now that your channel has grown so much: Any time you make a video talking about an individual in an unsympathetic context (in this case a probable scam) you run a risk of painting him or her a target of harassment and ridicule in front of thousands of people. I can’t see how this could ever be a positive thing, even if the person happens to be guilty.

Nothing would probably happen IRL, especially since you seem to be careful about personal details. This is good. But you could do even better IMO and just decide not give this person any more spotlight than he’s already got. Little good can come from introducing him to 50k+ new people at this point.
Why should he refrain from reporting on unscrupulous individuals just like every other journalistic medium does? What's special about games journalism that makes it exempt from reporting the bad along with the good?

TobiasSC

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Discussion’s already over but I’d like to add some quick thoughts.

First of all I just want to say that I really enjoy watching your videos Goose. I think you’ve got a great talent for speaking about stuff in a clear, fun and engaging way. Keep up the good work!

So here’s what I think about the idea of making this kind of a video in general, now that your channel has grown so much: Any time you make a video talking about an individual in an unsympathetic context (in this case a probable scam) you run a risk of painting him or her a target of harassment and ridicule in front of thousands of people. I can’t see how this could ever be a positive thing, even if the person happens to be guilty.

Nothing would probably happen IRL, especially since you seem to be careful about personal details. This is good. But you could do even better IMO and just decide not give this person any more spotlight than he’s already got. Little good can come from introducing him to 50k+ new people at this point.
Why should he refrain from reporting on unscrupulous individuals just like every other journalistic medium does? What's special about games journalism that makes it exempt from reporting the bad along with the good?

My starting point would be to never point my finger at anyone in front of a mass auidence (even if others do). Then I’d make exceptions from there depending on how severe the situation is. For example, could this person be a threat in any way? Could warning people about this help prevent a crime? Those would be a couple of good exceptions in my book which could warrant this kind of exposure.

But look, it wasn’t my intention to reignite this discussion. Just felt like voicing my opinions. Hopefully I’ve managed to make my reasoning clear.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 08:24:30 pm by TobiasSC »

Blue Khakis

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Discussion’s already over but I’d like to add some quick thoughts.

First of all I just want to say that I really enjoy watching your videos Goose. I think you’ve got a great talent for speaking about stuff in a clear, fun and engaging way. Keep up the good work!

So here’s what I think about the idea of making this kind of a video in general, now that your channel has grown so much: Any time you make a video talking about an individual in an unsympathetic context (in this case a probable scam) you run a risk of painting him or her a target of harassment and ridicule in front of thousands of people. I can’t see how this could ever be a positive thing, even if the person happens to be guilty.

Nothing would probably happen IRL, especially since you seem to be careful about personal details. This is good. But you could do even better IMO and just decide not give this person any more spotlight than he’s already got. Little good can come from introducing him to 50k+ new people at this point.
Why should he refrain from reporting on unscrupulous individuals just like every other journalistic medium does? What's special about games journalism that makes it exempt from reporting the bad along with the good?

My starting point would be to never point my finger at anyone in front of a mass auidence (even if others do). Then I’d make exceptions from there depending on how severe the situation is. For example, could this person be a threat in any way? Could warning people about this help prevent a crime? Those would be a couple of good exceptions in my book which could warrant this kind of exposure.

But look, it wasn’t my intention to reignite this discussion. Just felt like voicing my opinions. Hopefully I’ve managed to make my reasoning clear.
That's fair enough man, we can only reach the truth by taking in the views of others. I would note that Goose already did a video when Billy Mitchell was removed from Twin Galaxies, which now has over 100,000 views. Do you think he shouldn't have done that, or do you think he should take that video down? I'm genuinely interested btw, not just asking rhetorically to jump down your throat.

TobiasSC

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Discussion’s already over but I’d like to add some quick thoughts.

First of all I just want to say that I really enjoy watching your videos Goose. I think you’ve got a great talent for speaking about stuff in a clear, fun and engaging way. Keep up the good work!

So here’s what I think about the idea of making this kind of a video in general, now that your channel has grown so much: Any time you make a video talking about an individual in an unsympathetic context (in this case a probable scam) you run a risk of painting him or her a target of harassment and ridicule in front of thousands of people. I can’t see how this could ever be a positive thing, even if the person happens to be guilty.

Nothing would probably happen IRL, especially since you seem to be careful about personal details. This is good. But you could do even better IMO and just decide not give this person any more spotlight than he’s already got. Little good can come from introducing him to 50k+ new people at this point.
Why should he refrain from reporting on unscrupulous individuals just like every other journalistic medium does? What's special about games journalism that makes it exempt from reporting the bad along with the good?

My starting point would be to never point my finger at anyone in front of a mass auidence (even if others do). Then I’d make exceptions from there depending on how severe the situation is. For example, could this person be a threat in any way? Could warning people about this help prevent a crime? Those would be a couple of good exceptions in my book which could warrant this kind of exposure.

But look, it wasn’t my intention to reignite this discussion. Just felt like voicing my opinions. Hopefully I’ve managed to make my reasoning clear.
That's fair enough man, we can only reach the truth by taking in the views of others. I would note that Goose already did a video when Billy Mitchell was removed from Twin Galaxies, which now has over 100,000 views. Do you think he shouldn't have done that, or do you think he should take that video down? I'm genuinely interested btw, not just asking rhetorically to jump down your throat.

That example I think is fine. Mostly just because Billy is more known than Goose. To greatly exaggerate to make a point; Obama makes a tweet about me VS the opposite. The former scenario would be overwhelming and scary where even the smallest uncharming thing he brings up could easily be blown out of proportion. In the latter scenario no worries, I could even be quite nasty on purpose but it wouldn’t matter much. To be clear I’m not comparing Goose to Obama (lol) nor do I think he says nasty things. The point is just that Goose is on a much higher level than the guy ITT, in this community and on YT and probably everywhere online. He’s well respected and popular. The other guy would not be able to counter in any meaningful way.

To be fair to Goose he did ask him if he wished to make any statements to be included in the video which I thought was very thoughtful of him.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 11:36:23 am by TobiasSC »

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And not only that, but all SZ had to do was show his strategy!  Or admit that he lied about it 15 years ago!  Pretty easy stuff.  But he chose not to do either.  He dug his own grave on this one, so my sympathy is even less.
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Blue Khakis

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That example I think is fine. Mostly just because Billy is more known than Goose. To greatly exaggerate to make a point; Obama makes a tweet about me VS the opposite. The former scenario would be overwhelming and scary where even the smallest uncharming thing he brings up could easily be blown out of proportion. In the latter scenario no worries, I could even be quite nasty on purpose but it wouldn’t matter much. To be clear I’m not comparing Goose to Obama (lol) nor do I think he says nasty things. The point is just that Goose is on a much higher level than the guy ITT, in this community and on YT and probably everywhere online. He’s well respected and popular. The other guy would not be able to counter in any meaningful way.

To be fair to Goose he did ask him if he wished to make any statements to be included in the video which I thought was very thoughtful of him.
Have you seen the Frigate Speedlore? An integral part of the episode was about Henning Blom who was removed from the rankings. That video has over 100,000 views, and I'm not aware that Henning has suffered personally from the video. Also, Goose is undeniably and by far the most well known person from the GE/PD scene, so if he only reports on controversy involving those with more exposure than him, that pretty much rules out him ever reporting on any drama from the Elite.

Indeed I would wager that part of the reason you and many others like Goose's output is the storytelling aspect, which necessarily requires heroes, villains, controversy and conflict to weave a compelling narrative together. To clarify, I'm not saying your concerns are unfounded, but in the end, a good journalist has to be willing to follow the truth wherever it leads.

wheatrich

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Goose neither cares about truth nor is a journalist.

The point is pretty simple, thousands of people watching these videos are socially unadjusted and thus should not be turned into a giant stupid mob.  We've got enough of that problem going around these days in society.  It's not something that can be avoided entirely but something to be careful about and goose is generally the opposite of careful.

TobiasSC

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Re: The Steven Zwartjes Saga Continues - Possible Aztec Strat Vid Coming Soon?!
« Reply #358 on: October 21, 2018, 09:08:24 pm »
That example I think is fine. Mostly just because Billy is more known than Goose. To greatly exaggerate to make a point; Obama makes a tweet about me VS the opposite. The former scenario would be overwhelming and scary where even the smallest uncharming thing he brings up could easily be blown out of proportion. In the latter scenario no worries, I could even be quite nasty on purpose but it wouldn’t matter much. To be clear I’m not comparing Goose to Obama (lol) nor do I think he says nasty things. The point is just that Goose is on a much higher level than the guy ITT, in this community and on YT and probably everywhere online. He’s well respected and popular. The other guy would not be able to counter in any meaningful way.

To be fair to Goose he did ask him if he wished to make any statements to be included in the video which I thought was very thoughtful of him.
Have you seen the Frigate Speedlore? An integral part of the episode was about Henning Blom who was removed from the rankings. That video has over 100,000 views, and I'm not aware that Henning has suffered personally from the video. Also, Goose is undeniably and by far the most well known person from the GE/PD scene, so if he only reports on controversy involving those with more exposure than him, that pretty much rules out him ever reporting on any drama from the Elite.

Indeed I would wager that part of the reason you and many others like Goose's output is the storytelling aspect, which necessarily requires heroes, villains, controversy and conflict to weave a compelling narrative together. To clarify, I'm not saying your concerns are unfounded, but in the end, a good journalist has to be willing to follow the truth wherever it leads.

Sure I’ve seen the episode. I don’t recall having any issue with it.
I mean yeah, if you’re making a video about the record history of a level it feels natural to mention people who cheated along the way. Is it strictly necessary? I don’t think so personally since only the real times matter in the end. I see fake records as bs which don’t deserve much attention. Can it still be fun/interesting trivia? Eh sure. Like you said, it makes for a better story since you get both heroes and villains. The fake negative stuff and the positive real records can work together fine to create a balanced narrative.

If the video had been soley focusing on Henning and his lies I’d probably not have liked it as much. If we view each video as its own little story and we use the reasoning above for what a compelling one should contain I think the balance would be off. As just one segment in a longer video like the frigate one? Yeah I think that’s reasonable.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 09:26:27 pm by TobiasSC »

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Goose neither cares about truth nor is a journalist.

The point is pretty simple, thousands of people watching these videos are socially unadjusted and thus should not be turned into a giant stupid mob.  We've got enough of that problem going around these days in society.  It's not something that can be avoided entirely but something to be careful about and goose is generally the opposite of careful.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

When have I *ever* done something careless on my YouTube channel?

My videos are of the highest journalistic integrity... my Chuya 206 video is the perfect example of looking deep into a case and coming out with a different conclusion than I had going in.  No agenda.  Just true journalism.

Can you name one example of where I've been careless on my YouTube channel?

Can you name one example of me being distruthful on my YouTube channel?

Honestly, it seems like Wheat has "Goose derangement syndrome" and just gets triggered by thinking of me.  At night, Wheat puts his head on his pillow, ready to fall blissfully asleep, but then thoughts of me pass through his mind, his blood pressure spikes, and he stays up all night enraged about it.  Truly embarrassing.

Someone BAN this fucking clown from the forums (for his own well being!)
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Whiteted

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My videos are of the highest journalistic integrity... my Chuya 206 video is the perfect example

Not sure about journalism but the maths was bad :p

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I love how some people care about a confirmed liar but dont understand or care at all about the fact that making youtube videos is Goose’s job. You glady ask Goose to sacrifice his job in order to protect the cheat from imaginary repercussions.
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Saltkillzsnails

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How is this still an issue? Its not like Goose or anyone is picking on a guy that cheated 15 years ago, admitted his mistake, and is just some 40 year old man sitting at home with his wife and kids doing nothing. He is actively LYING years and years later. Your points would be valid if Goose just picked a name from 2 decades ago and wanted to light a torch on some unsuspecting guy that made a mistake in his childhood but this is completely different. Steven came back to the community to continue a lie he started as a teen. If that doesn't warrant condemnation then I don't know what does to be honest.

TobiasSC

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How is this still an issue? Its not like Goose or anyone is picking on a guy that cheated 15 years ago, admitted his mistake, and is just some 40 year old man sitting at home with his wife and kids doing nothing. He is actively LYING years and years later. Your points would be valid if Goose just picked a name from 2 decades ago and wanted to light a torch on some unsuspecting guy that made a mistake in his childhood but this is completely different. Steven came back to the community to continue a lie he started as a teen. If that doesn't warrant condemnation then I don't know what does to be honest.

Yes well I guess our opinions simply differ when it comes to what warrants the exposure. That doesn’t  invalidate my points though. Sounds more like our boundaries are very different (yours seem wider). If we were to have a real discussion on the matter I’d need to know exacly what yours are, i.e. what actions you’d today consider to be ”too much” for this man and why. Then I’m sure we could compare and reach some kind of understanding from there. I think it’s enough in this case to just say we think differently and try to respect each others views. As stated earlier I just felt like putting in my two cents, that’s all. If anyone got an issue with this or just feel like having a conversation, feel free to send a PM. I’d be happy to have a deeper talk with anyone but not in this topic.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 11:42:11 am by TobiasSC »

Saltkillzsnails

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Granted its noble to defend the average guy we must not forget Steven sought this exposure. He didn't have to comeback, hardly anyone was even talking about Steven it was always just some crazy story from way back when. Steven brought this entire debacle onto himself. He did what every habitual liar does which is double down and hope people decide to believe him. Most of the Goldeneye community saw through this facade for what it was and quickly called bullshit. Steven knowing the game was up here quickly went into defensive mode playing victim and this entire thread is the aftermath.

So we're arguing justification for making a youtube video now. I assume we can all agree Steven is a liar now its a matter of punishment? And let me be clear I lied a bunch when I was a kid so I completely understand the mistake but the moment he came back to try and deceive the Elite and the MK community is where a line should be drawn. He wanted attention and he got it, unfortunately for him his plan to continue the lie backfired. Before you say that isn't enough to call someone out then lets look at the community as a whole. Stevens friends at the Mario Kart community and others Im sure are now under the impression that the Elite is full of a bunch of a holes that refuse to believe some strategy because they can't figure it out so go on a witch hunt. Which is the farthest thing from the truth but impressions mean everything. He harmed the community with his stunt and at the very least Goose deserves the right to defend the community and explain the situation while remaining as respectful as possible which he always does.


Guado

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It's really too bad so much of the attention is in this thread and others and not in views and clicks.
Better get on that vid before the thread dies again.
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TobiasSC

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Granted its noble to defend the average guy we must not forget Steven sought this exposure. He didn't have to comeback, hardly anyone was even talking about Steven it was always just some crazy story from way back when. Steven brought this entire debacle onto himself. He did what every habitual liar does which is double down and hope people decide to believe him. Most of the Goldeneye community saw through this facade for what it was and quickly called bullshit. Steven knowing the game was up here quickly went into defensive mode playing victim and this entire thread is the aftermath.

So we're arguing justification for making a youtube video now. I assume we can all agree Steven is a liar now its a matter of punishment? And let me be clear I lied a bunch when I was a kid so I completely understand the mistake but the moment he came back to try and deceive the Elite and the MK community is where a line should be drawn. He wanted attention and he got it, unfortunately for him his plan to continue the lie backfired. Before you say that isn't enough to call someone out then lets look at the community as a whole. Stevens friends at the Mario Kart community and others Im sure are now under the impression that the Elite is full of a bunch of a holes that refuse to believe some strategy because they can't figure it out so go on a witch hunt. Which is the farthest thing from the truth but impressions mean everything. He harmed the community with his stunt and at the very least Goose deserves the right to defend the community and explain the situation while remaining as respectful as possible which he always does.

I’m kinda out of here, but I just want to say I think you make a strong point in the importantance of protecting the community and re-establish any lost trust or respect.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 12:58:55 pm by TobiasSC »

Rützou

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Goose neither cares about truth nor is a journalist.

The point is pretty simple, thousands of people watching these videos are socially unadjusted and thus should not be turned into a giant stupid mob.  We've got enough of that problem going around these days in society.  It's not something that can be avoided entirely but something to be careful about and goose is generally the opposite of careful.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

When have I *ever* done something careless on my YouTube channel?

My videos are of the highest journalistic integrity... my Chuya 206 video is the perfect example of looking deep into a case and coming out with a different conclusion than I had going in.  No agenda.  Just true journalism.

Can you name one example of where I've been careless on my YouTube channel?

Can you name one example of me being distruthful on my YouTube channel?

Honestly, it seems like Wheat has "Goose derangement syndrome" and just gets triggered by thinking of me.  At night, Wheat puts his head on his pillow, ready to fall blissfully asleep, but then thoughts of me pass through his mind, his blood pressure spikes, and he stays up all night enraged about it.  Truly embarrassing.

Someone BAN this fucking clown from the forums (for his own well being!)

 :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

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Reigniting this thread = uneducated, DERANGED life choice
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TobiasSC

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Reigniting this thread = uneducated, DERANGED life choice

lol