Author Topic: OOK Knowledge repository  (Read 1484 times)

Whiteted

  • Posts: 126
  • AF1 51 or bust
    • GE
    • PD
OOK Knowledge repository
« on: July 27, 2018, 09:25:24 pm »
Fat post of more detailed explanation

The PUBLIC tutorial, click me but be warned I'm very concise

Main map

(The imgur album, with name explanations & the other pictures)

The pair lure
Why I created the offset
    The intended purpose of the offset lure is to prevent Sophie from stopping her circling until she opens the door. If you get the right spot, in testing I think I only had her stop once. And I've had her circle for about 2 minutes before.
Why the offset is good
  • Because Sophie will eventually open the door
  • (not really understood at all) because Sophie opens the door really fast quite often
How precise is the outer spot (where Flo is lured) / why the offset is bad
The outer spot is really very precise, and error creeps in from Bond wobbling around (affecting both your angle and where you perceive the reference point to be). At least at the moment there doesn't seem to be a setup which doesn't have some degree of luck to whether you get to the right spot or not. I think I need to go back to the science lab and run some more simulations to see exactly how precise the spot is.
Henrik's 1.2 setup
I've tried this out and did have some success, see Henrik's post below for details. It suffers from a lot of error in the x-direction (parallel to the face of the safe-key hut) with the edge-of-step corner-of-screen reference point, but perhaps by looking up instead we can get a better reference point. I'll look into it.
How invisibility helps you practise
With 1/2 probability, Luke (equivalently Richard) reacts to a close shot with our much-loved look-around animation. Otherwise he has a small chance to run sideways (left only) and stop. Otherwise he picks an aggressive animation. Without cheats, at the end of an aggressive animation he will see you by the door, and only loses sight of you if you go behind something. Distance between the two of you is irrelevant. But if you are invisible, obviously he does not see you.
So it is much like the look-around animation: At the end of the animation, Luke fixes on Bond's current position and runs there. Because it takes him more than 10 seconds to get there (one possible exception to this is the run-and-charge animation?) he stops when he arrives. So every run you should be able to set up the offset lure.

Update: I've found a nicer invisibility approach. Shoot left of Luke and wait out his aggressive animation / look around animation. Then actually shoot Richard somewhere to mark him with blood. This allows you to identify who is Flo and who is Sophie when you come back to work out what went wrong. It also gives a quick reaction so Sophie (Richard) will be hot on the heels of Flo (Luke) and so ensures you can unload Flo and practise backing up to the door in a short space of time.
FAQ on the pair lure
Do I need to shoot down the middle of Luke and Richard?
    No, in fact since we want the two guards to move at different times, it seems more sensible to shoot for one to react, and then the other. Wierdly though they seem very keen on synchronising, and so shooting down the middle and hoping for different animation speeds is an okay way to go.
I shot down the middle and only one reacted. Why?
    This comes from some subtlety with the action script that they are running (I think): they sometimes aren't checking for shots nearby, and so can miss one. It's not uncommon, so shoot again if necessary.
How precise is the 'outer spot' (that you move to)?
    Very precise, but the closer the better. Also this is a bad question. Read what the point of the outer spot is.

Do I need to use 2.X?
    If you want to get into the 'outer spot' to almost guarantee that Sophie opens the door eventually, and to get good odds (odds actually unknown but believed to be incredible from a pretty short bit of testing) of her opening the door quickly then.. probably. I've been trying Henrik's 1.2 method and it is fairly good, see above.
    If you want much lower odds of the door opening and much higher odds of Sophie stopping (particularly instantly, where she 'piggybacks' Flo)  or want to wiggle back and forward for 10 minutes then no use 1.4 or whatever.
    [Possible author bias  :kappa: ]
How about 1.1?
    1.1 is like 2.X in the sense that you have a stick for moving forwards.
How about a cheat stick or GC stick?
    I didn't realise that these don't behave like the c-buttons. I've not tried them but they are very possibly workable.


Sam's spawn

The observatory room boundary & enabling spawning
The observatory is the building which doesn't play a role in the level, between the safe-key hut and the safe compound. It's room is a large region which surrounds it. When we enter this room (or another which surrounds Kevin's hut) the spawning timer starts. Realistically we only cross 1 of 3 edges of this boundary. [Nice picture to be added]
The spawning script
Here's the script which controls Sam's spawning:
Code: [Select]
Wait 121 frames (a frame over 2s)
while Spawning disabled do
    Sleep a frame

while true do
    Wait 121 frames (a frame over 2s)
    if (this actor is not alive or fading out) and not X then
        switch on Bond’s current weapon
            case One of the starting weapons, or a ‘quiet weapon’
                Spawn with probability 55/256 = 0.215
            case One of KF7, Klobb, GL, i.e. a ‘guard weapon’
                Spawn with probability 205/256 = 0.801
            case Otherwise (Grenade or cheats.. or equipping the keys / drawings)
                Spawn with certainty

So notice that since we take more than 2s to enter the observatory room and enable spawning, the first wait is irrelevant (and more evidence of a compiler) and then we are only concerned about the first spawn of Sam (since even short death animations + fading out = like 5s). The final case is not available to us (we can only access starting weapons + the KF7 until we either go to Kevin's hut or a guard spawns). So we have the first 2. I call these chances to spawn which come around every 2s a 'roll to spawn'.

A few potential strategies are available:
  • No KF7 2s Sam spawn insta-kill
        Are you a TASer?
  • No KF7
        No individual has enough time to waste to afford doing that KF7 pickup. Sticking with a starting weapon gives the 0.215 odds every 2s ish. Ideally we want to increase these, so we need a reasonably consistent way of getting Sam stuck on the door. This could then use the 0.384 chance to spawn in the first 2 rolls to have a decent (say 1 in 3) chance that Sam is on the door at the 4s mark.
  • David lure
        You can lure David close to the room boundary but unfortunately heading towards Bond at the safe-key-hut door he is heading into a part which will be in Flo's semicircle of sight. This makes the David lure a bit tricky, but with a fast escape (Flo is still far from the safe-key-hut door when you leave) you can get the KF7 out before the first roll to spawn. I think don't try this yet.
  • M-strat's method
        M-strat intends to only have the sniper out at 2s, since we consider this spawn bad because we are worried that Sam will escape. Then it collects the KF7 asap but has a decent bit of time (like > 1 frame I mean) to set up for the 4s spawn, with the KF7 out.
        The odds of Sam spawning at 4s (not by) are 201*205/256^2  = 62.9%. Actually we accrue some more probability from the chance of a 2s lure where Sam gets stuck but I don't know what the odds of that are.
  • Further back clip shot
        Like the M-strat method in terms of sniper for the 2s spawn, KF7 at 4s, but the clip shot is made from the south side of the path, since we want to go that way anyway.


The clip shot

How it appears to work : not hitting the wall
Bullets which pass over ground which does not have any clipping (Bond can't walk on it), and then travel 'far enough' afterwards, seem to lose all ability to interact with the environment. This explanation is not sound, and I mean to look into it properly soon. A really strange example is shooting over the right of Luke & Richard's hut, where you can hit the ground behind the hut only if you shoot over the hut. So it's like an anti-clip shot. There are also many more partial clip shots throughout GE, where bullets will go through one side of a wall, but collide on the far side.
How it works: hitting Sam
This is better understood: unlike Kevin and Phil, Sam is loaded. This seems to happen as he tries to move from an unloaded room, Kevin's hut, to a loaded room, the region surrounding Kevin's hut, which occurs the very moment he is spawned. Sam also likes to get stuck on the door, which is helpful for knowing where to shoot, see the picture above with Sam stuck on the door marked in pink.
The 3 ways to lure Kevin
  • Injure Sam before he gets stuck on the door or escapes
        This is tricky because you need to be quicker, but is very fast. Be aware that when Sam escapes, he normally first heads further away from the door, deeper into the hut, then loops back and charges out. Also if Sam is not killed, Kevin can be very slow escaping. Firstly he'll nearly complete his first segment, but then crash into Sam. Then he loads back where he started, and repeats the path to the door, probably getting stuck on Sam again.
  • Injure Sam literally just after he gets out of the door
        Sam often escapes soon after spawning, opening the door and running out of the hut. He is only still in Kevin's line of sight very soon after he gets out the door. This method is nice because it is quite clear whether you've managed it or not.
  • The double lure
        If Sam gets stuck on the door, he settles into the same spot, on the middle of the door (which opens inwards). Here he is not visible to Kevin, and so hitting him won't lure Kevin out. You must either back him up (presumably with leg shots, where I think 2 are necessary) or perform the double lure: Hitting Sam here lures out Phil, who can then be shot similarly to Sam in the first approach above. This is easy because it is always the same amount of time from hitting Sam to Phil leaving, and Phil moves slowly compared to Sam, so is easier to hit.
Choice of weapon: Sniper, KF7
Looking over the edge of the hut you do not have any auto-aim, and so a PP7 seems to offer no advantage over the sniper. The KF7 will already be out for when you spawned Kevin, and so it is a good idea to keep this out. I've used the sniper in the M-strat because you can zoom to make life easier, and it is a bit more accurate. But for speed, the KF7 is preferable. For unloading considerations see the bit on unloading Flo and Sophie.
FAQ / FIQ (Frequently implied questions)
Can we load Kevin while he's in the hut?
    Essentially no. Sam loads when he tries to 'segment' through the door into the loaded room outside, but this does not load the room (kevin's hut) and so doesn't load Kevin. But suppose Sam escapes and we don't shoot him in time. He leaves the door open, so looking into this would load the hut. Unfortunately the 'portal' to Kevin's room is in the middle of the door frame, which is reasonably thick. This means we can't be at too shallow an angle when looking into the door frame, otherwise Kevin's hut won't load. Aiming over the right side of the empty hut, we can see the front face of Kevin's hut but the room inside does not load. Some more precise maths needs doing but it seems unlikely that we can load Kevin and perform a clip shot on the right-side of the empty hut. You can do a clip shot by falling off the snow bank in front of Luke & Richard's hut and shooting over the corner of Luke & Richard's hut mid-fall. This seems to have little practical application but is quite fun.
But I don't want to lure them to different spots coz I want to pick and choose incompatible bits of this straattt?
I did have an idea which is to lure them to the same spot against the door and have Flo stop short. This can be achieved by having them both loaded, but the problem is Flo stops way too short as far as I experimented.

Random stuff
It seems you can hear the door open even from the clip shot spot right by the empty hut.
Sniper guard script

Nade nonsense
There are only 4 spawning guards, and they are each completely separate. Once you cross into that observatory room, guards think about spawning every 2s and a bit. They don't if they're still alive obviously, or if they are in their dying animation or if they are fading out. They spawn with probability roughly 20% if you have a starting weapon out, 80% if you have the KF7 out. Where they spawn depends on which room Bond is in, so between all of this there's a lot of opportunity for manipulation.

It's quite easy to get a guard down by the safe compound, and sometimes he goes round the back and ends up near the safe compound entrance which is 2 opportunities. Sam can give us 1 opportunity if we don't kill him (which may not be possible). I think we can get another guard near the safe compound for at least 1 more. There is a small chance of another by the safe compound entrance for 2 more (but the odds a quite bad and manipulation quite difficult). Finally I think we can get one to spawn by the ventilation shaft while Bond is heading to the safe which could potentially be 2 more opportunities if we can meet them going in and out of the satellite building.

I've got to see how much of this is actually practically possible, and also worth it in terms of the manipulations costing us time, but like I say I'm hopeful for 5 opportunities.

No KF7

Drawn slightly roughly.
Red is the room boundary: The timer for Sam to spawn starts as you cross this.
Green is the line where you have a line of sight on Kevin's hut door over the slope of the roof.
If you can't see anything to left of the black line, then the guard pair can unload.
In Brown are some reasonable Bond routes, the top one surely preventing the guard pair from unloading even when you scope in with the sniper. The bottom one is just a pretty direct route.

You should be able to get shots at 2s, 4s and 6s (though Kevin wouldn't really get far enough at 6s?).

Dossier here.
https://github.com/whiteted-strats/OOK
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 02:26:13 pm by Whiteted »

Aztec Exemplar

  • Posts: 2496
  • A Significant Sex Machine
    • Mirror
    • GE
    • twitch
Re: OOK Knowledge repository
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2018, 11:21:33 pm »
Got a door open with 1.2.
"Time's a teacher spitting since I was tying sneakers" - Jus

Binch

  • Posts: 1
Re: OOK Knowledge repository
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2018, 12:33:14 am »
More like OOK knowledge suppository because this looks like a pain in the ass

Boss

  • Posts: 3977
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: OOK Knowledge repository
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2018, 02:59:40 am »

Aztec Exemplar

  • Posts: 2496
  • A Significant Sex Machine
    • Mirror
    • GE
    • twitch
Re: OOK Knowledge repository
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2018, 06:50:45 am »
If you watched White's vid, read the doc and still have no idea what is going on then read this:

(Note: Some things may be wrong and there are some things I still don't quite understand however, Boss and I have managed to do both lures successfully with these ideas.)

- First you must kill the patrolling KF7 guard as seen here (very cake).

- You must then set yourself up into a precise spot at the doorstep of the key hut. To do this, you can get yourself into the corner of the door (the side that's closest to the safe). You then align your dot in the center of the left guard by the tanks. From here, you can walk forward a specific number of units. Unfortunately, it's impossible to move this distance with 1.2 because you overshoot no matter how quick you tap c-up. However, you don't necessarily have to get into this position just by moving forward. You can overshoot and then move backwards or even try some set-up from the side. This is where things are up in the air. It'd be great if someone can make a very quick and consistent set-up with 1.2.
Perfect spot = https://i.gyazo.com/aca4d8064f60cba09f91fc5d3ccc1ca8.png

- Once you're in the spot, you must r-aim in between the two guards and shoot. You need both guards to do the animation where they look around. Chances of it happening = 1/4.

- When the first guard is done doing his animation, you need to move back against the door so both guards are not lured to the same spot. When the next guard is done, you must leave.

- You need to go and get the KF7 from the guard you killed earlier. As you go there, you need to ensure you stay out of the lured guards' radii. Again, very easy.

- As you head to the KF7, you will cross a boundary and enter a specific section of the map otherwise known as a "room". When you first step into the room, you have 4 seconds to pick up the KF7 and switch to it. This is done to give you an 67% chance 80% chance (while holding KF7, thanks Henrik) of a guard spawn in the far hut.

- You stand behind the hut in front of you and look over it to shoot through the back of the far hut like a trainshot. The spawned guard will try to open the door from the inside.

- One of two things can happen.
                 - Spawned guard gets stuck on door
                 - You must shoot spawned guard
                 - Other guard inside hut sees this and is lured out
                 - You shoot other guard when he runs outside
                 - Keyguard sees this and is lured out
OR
                 - Spawned guard opens door and runs out
                 - You shoot spawned guard outside
                 - Keyguard sees this and is lured out
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 09:21:57 am by Aztec Exemplar »
"Time's a teacher spitting since I was tying sneakers" - Jus

Wyst3r

  • Posts: 4164
  • Train Strat Master
    • Henrik
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: OOK Knowledge repository
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2018, 08:29:53 am »
Nice summary.

Quote
- Once you're in the spot, you must r-aim in between the two guards and shoot. You need both guards to do the animation where they look around. Chances of it happening = 1/4.

It's worth noting that the look around animation comes in three different lengths, 50/100/150 frames. So if you shoot between them once, in addition to both selecting the right animation, they also must chose different lengths.

Quote
- As you head to the KF7, you will cross a boundary and enter a specific section of the map otherwise known as a "room".

To clarify, the room in question can be seen here (the yellow area on the left):


Quote
When you first step into the room, you have 4 seconds to pick up the KF7 and switch to it.

The game tries to spawn the guard once every 2 seconds. So while 4 seconds might be the most reasonable in practise, the earliest possible spawn is actually after 2 seconds. The reason we want to switch to KF7 is because Klobb/KF7/GL weapons increase the odds of a successful spawn alot compared to Unarmed/PP7/Sniper Rifle.

Quote
This is done to give you a 67% chance of a guard spawn properly in the far hut.

Not sure where this number comes from, but I don't think it's correct. The odds are as follows:

Unarmed/PP7/Sniper Rifle: 21.484375%
Klobb/KF7/GL: 80.078125%
Grenade/Keys/Bunker Plans/Other: 100%

So if we bring the KF7 out before the 2 second cycle, we actually get two chances each with an 80.07% chance of success. This means we get a combined 96.03% chance of success. If we bring the KF7 out later, then we'll have one chance of 21.48% followed by another at 80.07%, bringing the combined probability to 84.35%. Of course you can also wait for the 6 second cycle to increase odds even further.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 08:38:57 am by Wyst3r »

Wyst3r

  • Posts: 4164
  • Train Strat Master
    • Henrik
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: OOK Knowledge repository
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2018, 10:09:31 am »
Potential setup for 1.2:

1. Start off in the right corner of the door (looking towards the guards).
2. Aim towards the right guard.
3. Crouch.
4. Left strafe until the edge of the step meets the corner of the screen.

So essentially it's the same visual cue as Whiteted's setup, except we approach it from the side, which makes it easier to hit the right Z coordinate. Also, the strafe speed is slightly slower than forwards.

I've only tested it on emu, but it seems much easier to hit the right spot. It's definiately a much less sensitive approach.

« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 10:22:15 am by Wyst3r »

Vermin

  • Posts: 37
    • GE
    • twitch
Re: OOK Knowledge repository
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2018, 04:25:25 pm »
In an attempt to centralize everything, here is the link to the original video:

https://youtu.be/swdkPKYyBfk

And here is the link to Henrik's TAS:

https://youtu.be/CKxmflh5pf0
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 04:57:14 pm by Vermin »

Boss

  • Posts: 3977
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: OOK Knowledge repository
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2018, 04:46:43 pm »
I played some more today (with invis) and found it extremely difficult to have good pace. I think for the safe hut lure you gotta shoot at both guards around 2-3s before you get to the door and hope they have the proper animations. Then try to stand in the precise spot for like .5 and then go back to the door frame for .5ish. Going for the early KF7 kill loses a lot of time and might not be worth increasing the odds of the large key lure. I did manage a 149-150 pace and getting the large key, but the safe key guard lures both ended up leaving too early before I got in position. Bottom line is a nade is most likely going to be required. With somewhat yolo attempts (TAS style safe hut lures) I could get closer to like 143 pace (if doing perfect nade ending) while attempting to take out a guard that could pull a nade.

Whiteted

  • Posts: 126
  • AF1 51 or bust
    • GE
    • PD
Re: OOK Knowledge repository
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2018, 05:07:58 pm »
You are the main public player of this strat atm so thanks for pushing this strat forwards.

I'm skeptical that hoping for slow reactions is any better than hoping for quick reactions, but luring on the run with the sniper is plausible.
I think we'll get better at multi-tasking and I did predict to Henrik that we'll see 1s pair lure setups (certainly not something I can do yet lol)

But the key point here is without a vid I can't tell you where you are losing time, or believe that you aren't able to save time. Are you doing the double lure for the clip shot? When do you unload the guard pair? Presumably you perform the pair lure from the 'classic' spot?

debrebeuf

  • Posts: 21
  • debrebeuf
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: OOK Knowledge repository
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2018, 05:08:28 pm »

I found a good spot to shoot that generally makes the guards not shoot you for lure, but rather look around their feet (such is the the desired outcome).
Inside the red square is the spot.
I have an inkling it is a similar case to the trev shot on statue.  Specifically, the picture with the guard standing and the triangle superimposed over him. 

I don't know if this was common knowledge or anything.

[EDIT]
the square isn't perfect but it is somewhere there
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 12:14:22 am by debrebeuf »
ps: dont read this ^

debrebeuf

  • Posts: 21
  • debrebeuf
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: OOK Knowledge repository
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2018, 05:12:12 pm »
I also got a few door opens on 1.2, and one was where after the first guard moved, i turned left as too move myself forward (then the second guard took my position).  It did work, but it isn't consistently working yet. 

I got a completion with invisibility, too, but it was my first time playing surface 1 00, so I didn't know any strafes or lines:
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 07:08:12 pm by debrebeuf »
ps: dont read this ^