Author Topic: Request for OOK vids  (Read 2221 times)

Whiteted

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Request for OOK vids
« on: July 28, 2018, 06:38:59 pm »
I find the lack of vids disturbing.
Post any here for public criticism and to be included as good / bad examples of stuff in my other thread.
I will not be offering feedback except in public.
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Grav

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2018, 10:20:23 pm »
maybe you should give people more than 24 hours to try out an absurdly complicated strategy before you start berating them for a lack of videos

if you genuinely wanted this to be figured out and optimized you wouldn't put arbitrary limitations on your willingness to help out either. also not-so-subtly jabbing at boss of all people for not having a video of a newborn strat is really asinine
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 10:28:57 pm by Grav »

Wuldntuliktono

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2018, 12:44:41 am »
Yea dude no offense but if it was such an easy strat to do you would have already posted a time with it! Henrik did a tas and boss posted a video of a cpmpletion with invis. It basically has to be done in 2.x with 2 original control sticks so its not for everybody. I fooled around a bit with invisibility and managed to get the door open but I couldnt lure the guards out. Henrik came up with the crouch into a guard to get the aztec glass opened about a year ago and still it really hasnt been used yet. Insane strats take time and this one throws out everything from the strat that more or less was used on this level for 20 years!

Whiteted

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2018, 04:45:53 am »
Boss has made a video and is playing the level publicly, that's good. I was not directing this at Boss, but people who have asked for feedback privately because although it's alright it's not as helpful for everyone. I said what I wanted to say about Boss' lack of a video for his 1:50 pace on the other thread, I didn't need this one.

But also I didn't mean to sound so harsh, it was just a meme.
Quote
I find the lack of vids disturbing.
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DYM

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2018, 05:11:07 am »
Honestly, this is all because Boss & Mirror, the two main players who have gotten significant progress with the strat and understand it to a higher degree than most others, aren't streaming and sharing their setups for the strat. If you stream he could probably help you spot your mistakes / finetune your setup + spectators like me who don't have an inkling about the strat would find it more exciting and promising perhaps.

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2018, 05:50:56 am »
i'm more disturbed by the forecasting that OOK / M-Strat would single-handedly slice 20+ seconds off the GE Total Time.
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Whiteted

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2018, 06:51:35 am »
I may stream this afternoon but it will be a bit of a joke coz I screw the treeline / david kill up every other run lol
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Wuldntuliktono

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2018, 09:09:21 am »
i'm more disturbed by the forecasting that OOK / M-Strat would single-handedly slice 20+ seconds off the GE Total Time.
Whos saying that? If the tas is 135 id say like 142  to 144 would be a much more logical place for the time to end up!

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2018, 09:48:19 am »
i'm more disturbed by the forecasting that OOK / M-Strat would single-handedly slice 20+ seconds off the GE Total Time.
Whos saying that? If the tas is 135 id say like 142  to 144 would be a much more logical place for the time to end up!

I've also had a few other ideas (which haven't been shot down yet, and which aren't quite so secret) which together with this led me to the outrageous claim of 1:10:XX by the end of the year. I'll definitely retract the stronger version of this (by the end of summer, "easy") but I'll stand by the end of 2018 one for now. Gratz and thanks to Daniel Coelho for bringing it closer since I said that.. only 29s to go :grinning:

Whiteted

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2018, 11:45:12 am »
yeah I dunno who's saying 20+ either
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Boss

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2018, 12:00:18 am »

Wuldntuliktono

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2018, 10:45:44 am »
So basically this strat is dead without adding the insane luck factor of farming a grenade... your better off just getting the gl and self boosting. Only spawning guards can pull grenades and its not like surface 2 grenade odds...

Whiteted

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2018, 01:57:28 pm »
Only spawning guards can pull grenades

True.

its not like surface 2 grenade odds...

Less true.

I don't know much about s2 but I've heard the odds quoted as 1 in 24 ish. This agrees with this script (0423) (starting at Label 28) in so far as rolling for a grenade, with the grenade probability set to 3/4 in this script (0422) giving total odds just shy of 1 in 31 (not considering that passing the 1 in 24 but failing the 3 in 4 gives you another chance just 2 '03' statements later).

This is exactly the same as in surface 1, with their grenade probability also set to 3/4 for a general guard here (0418), or for a sniper guard  here (041a). The main attack-selection code in s1 is identical as seen here (0419) and in particular again there is a probability of 11/256 to roll for a 'nade.

Indeed in surface 1 the guards attack from further away (160 instead of 80 s-units if I'm not mistaken) and so we could afford a side-step (40/255 chance) and then a nade-pull, shortening the odds a bit.

More fundamentally we have a long time to manipulate the spawning guards into our path. I'll be working on this next I think, and I'm hopeful we can get 5 chances in each full run (though these ideas are very untested atm).

So basically this strat is dead without adding the insane luck factor of farming a grenade... your better off just getting the gl and self boosting.

The strat definitely needs to go a little bit back to the drawing board for some more testing and tweaking but I think the overall idea is sound. The grenade luck is not bad but if we can't get a better setup for the pair lure then the odds do start multiplying a bit high. But it's no 1 in 961.
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Whiteted

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2018, 02:35:19 pm »
Have at it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4OOLXTJNAU

'David kill' is a little slow, I guess because you knew he hadn't died but this isn't much time loss as it's still full speed forward. I think you may have Pete in the bad spot in the background and probably want to aim down a bit more for the mysteriously good effect it has on auto aim.

Your setup is pretty quick but not much faster than I hope for in the normal setup. Hope is the key word there, since console runs last night convinced me that this needs some serious re-evaluating on how precise the spot needs to be and how reliably we can set up into it quickly.

The run dies with your clip shot. Even for the M-strat you are going way too far forward (and back on yourself to the right), you should only go literally just up the bank of snow. More to the point, like I say at the end of the tutorial that spot near the empty hut is cute and easier but not optimal. Instead you want to retreat up the snow bank on the safe-key-hut side of the path and perform your shot from back there. We see when you return that Flo and Sophie have arrived well ahead of you so Bond is really the bottleneck.

Also it's worth saying that since you didn't get the KF7 there's no point even going forward and you could have gone for a real mimic of the TAS with a shot from far back. Obviously you were intending to get the KF7 but my thinking is going away from the KF7 and towards convincing Sam to get stuck on the door now.

For real optimisation you also take a little too long to actually shoot the sniper, and I think your PP7 (pretending it's the KF7) is put away after something like 5s, you could have brought it out and immediately put it back away (it's 'out' while it rises up and falls).

The return is quick in the sense that you cut the corner, but I hoped we could avoid the bit where you run straight to kill Flo / Sophie.

I don't know if you were fair with the amount of time to get the key, but lets say you were. You don't get any boosts (1 should be pretty reliable from the 1 guard you leave alive).

It looks like you kept Kevin unloaded well, but a slightly late shot leaves him a little short of where we'd like him.

Line to the safe doesn't cost you much, slightly slow safe-hut door I think? (I'd be more than happy with it) and obviously the satellite building doors. Console looks nice and lines and locks after that look pretty tasty to me.

All in all
I'd actually say this shows that if we can sort the pair lure out (even at a cost of a second) then I think by not going for the KF7 (or with a david lure then retreating) the 1:46 should be comfortably possible without a grenade.
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Wuldntuliktono

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2018, 03:10:51 pm »
Is there a way to force a spawn guard near you durring the run? I got a 2:32 without invisible going slow just trying to get it to work. Also when shooting into the hut is there a certain spot to aim at? Or are the guards inside unloaded? It definitely works tho!

Whiteted

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2018, 04:05:33 pm »
I've added a bit titled "Nade nonsense" to my post here instead of putting it here. Read the rest of the post for more about where to aim (see the picture) but basically you are aiming at Sam who spawns right by the door and either escapes out of it or gets stuck on it.

It does work but the pair lure is the issue, much more so than I anticipated, especially because we really need to 'spend some RNG' on both a nade and probably a KF7-less clip shot. Plenty of work still to do.
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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2018, 08:46:49 pm »
Can you show the best line you can take to do the large key lure (like with overhead map shot) since KF7 is clearly not worth the time loss? I guess a drawing of the lines to take to and from that lure would be helpful. How much time did I lose getting back to the safe key hut? I could probably gain 1s on the rest of the run since I did botch the building doors and slightly off line to the safe hut.

Whiteted

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2018, 02:35:51 pm »
There's a picture in the main thread under 'No-KF7' now, but the lines aren't perfectly accurate.
I've had some thoughts on doing the pair lure differently too. In both my ideas you lure them to the same spot in the corner of the door frame (much easier to set up). Then Flo will normally stop too short of the spot, allowing Sophie to access it and stop.

1. Keep both loaded. Add a well timed weapon switch for lag to make Flo go further. Problem is she could overshoot the spot itself, or still undershoot by too much.
2. Again both loaded. Let them both stop one in front of the other by the door, and then do some magic to open the door. I've got a video of this happening when I was invisible and we might be able to set something up.
3. Unload Flo to arrive on the spot precisely, or again lag to make her undershoot by less, then leg / hand shot to back her up a bit to defend the spot.

All just ideas.
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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2018, 06:23:33 pm »
> Whiteted makes thread "request for OOK vids"
> Boss requests Whiteted to make a specific OOK vid
> Whiteted writes "there's a picture in the main thread"

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DYM

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2018, 01:32:30 pm »
> Boss requests Whiteted to make a specific OOK vid
Did he?

Whiteted

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2018, 01:08:19 pm »
> Boss requests Whiteted to make a specific OOK vid
Did he?
artistic license :p it makes the joke work
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Wuldntuliktono

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Re: Request for OOK vids
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2018, 06:16:31 pm »
Anyone have any luck with this strat yet? Best i got was a 202 on 00 agent.