Fastest version for each level

[basedurngod333221]

Since there is no thread that lists all of this information, and it is information that would be useful to me as well, I would appreciate if players would give their input as to what versions of the game are the fastest for each level. So far, I know:

Dam (all difficulties): NTSC-U for less lag on the dam.

Facility: ??? NTSC-J for better auto-aim maybe?

Runway: ??? Either NTSC-U or NTSC-J

Surface 1 (Agent): ??? Either NTSC-U or NTSC-J

Surface 1 (Secret Agent & 00 Agent): NTSC-J for better auto-aim

Carl-Magnus Wall comment:

Surface 1 00 on NTSC-J is definitely better due to low lag in the first hut. On SA the difference is smaller, but I prefer playing on NTSC-J. I feel like NTSC-U has weird lag spikes here and there.

Bunker 1 (all difficulties): NTSC-J for better auto-aim and faster quick-pauses.

Silo (all difficulties): NTSC-U for one less guard and more consistently good cutscenes. NTSC-J could help consistency for slower times due to better auto-aim and body armor.

Frigate (all difficulties): NTSC-J for better auto-aim and quick-pauses.

SGT RAGEQUIT comment:

Frig Agent is player preference - I found it easier to get consistent hostage taker kills on NTSC-U, the Jap autoaim was too strong.

Surface 2 (Agent & Secret Agent): ??? Either NTSC-U or NTSC-J

Surface 2 (00 Agent): NTSC-J for the current WR strat by David Clemens and Ilari Pekkala because of the superior auto-aim, but there are faster strats that require no auto-aim, so otherwise ???

Bunker 2 (Agent & 00 Agent): NTSC-J for better auto-aim.

Bunker 2 (Secret Agent): ??? Either NTSC-U or NTSC-J

Statue: ??? Either NTSC-U or NTSC-J

Archives: People claim NTSC-U lags less, not sure if it's true.

Streets (all difficulties): NTSC-J for better auto-aim.

Depot: ??? Either NTSC-U or NTSC-J

Train (all difficulties): PAL for less lag, faster watch laser, and more consistent explosions(?)

Jungle (all difficulties): PAL for less lag and faster AR-33 firing rate

Control (all difficulties): I would assume NTSC-J for better auto-aim.

Caverns (Agent): ??? Either NTSC-U or NTSC-J

KevinDDR comment:

[In] Caverns A, ... different parts of the level run at different frame rates on NTSC U and J. Some people prefer taking the extra boostage on JP and smoother ending in exchange for the shittier frame rate in some spots while some would rather grind a little more for extra boosts on NTSC and a significantly higher frame rate at the start of the stage and the spiral. Both versions would undoubtedly come within frames of each other with literal perfect runs...

Caverns (Secret Agent): PAL for less lag and faster AR-33 firing rate

Caverns (00 Agent): NTSC-J for body armor that isn't accessible in other versions

Cradle (all difficulties): NTSC-J for better auto-aim. I've been told NTSC-J has more consistent drone explosions but can't verify it.

Aztec: ??? It seems to be split between NTSC-J and PAL for most people, but I'm not sure which is better. PAL should theoretically have less lag and faster AR-33 firing rate but the doors open in 1.2 seconds instead of 1.0 seconds and the auto-aim is worse. I've heard guards in PAL react slower.

flicker comment:

Basically completely player preference. In my opinion NTSC-J is the best for Agent, and PAL for SA and 00A, although the better auto aim on 00A is very important, but if you can handle it on PAL it should be better. Also PAL has been known to provide nicer big rooms at the ending, with 0 hits being seen on some rare occasions, but I dont believe this is because of slower guard reactions, I think that is a myth.

Wodahs comment:

The door speed difference is pretty significant between PAL/NTSC on Aztec. JP is the best version for pure speed since autoaim is very helpful for that stage. PAL is a little better for surviving and not getting hit around so much.

Egypt: ??? Either NTSC-U or NTSC-J

I would strongly appreciate discussion and additions from players who have some knowledge about version differences and can give their input about which version is the best version for each level. Thanks for reading.

[flicker]

Surface 1 (Secret Agent & 00 Agent): NTSC-J for better auto-aim

Auto aim is irrel for the one guard you need to kill. Lots of people use the sniper rifle for it even. Headshots are harder with auto aim as well.

Bunker 1 (all difficulties): NTSC-J for better auto-aim and faster quick-pauses.

Where did you get this information about faster quick pauses? I've never heard this, and personally I don't feel a difference. NTSC-J is definitely best for 00A.

Surface 2 (00 Agent): NTSC-J for the current WR strat by David Clemens and Ilari Pekkala because of the superior auto-aim, but there are faster strats that require no auto-aim, so otherwise ???

Again, a headshot on the grenade pulling guard is more optimal and harder with auto aim.

Bunker 2: Not sure but would assume NTSC-J for better auto-aim and faster pauses.

Still no Agent 23s on NTSC-U, and nobody plays for one because of that. The better auto aim for the keycard kill is the major factor here I assume.

Aztec: ??? It seems to be split between NTSC-J and PAL for most people, but I'm not sure which is better. PAL should theoretically have less lag and faster AR-33 firing rate but the doors open in 1.2 seconds instead of 1.0 seconds and the auto-aim is worse. I've heard guards in PAL react slower.

Basically completely player preference. In my opinion NTSC-J is the best for Agent, and PAL for SA and 00A, although the better auto aim on 00A is very important, but if you can handle it on PAL it should be better. Also PAL has been known to provide nicer big rooms at the ending, with 0 hits being seen on some rare occasions, but I dont believe this is because of slower guard reactions, I think that is a myth.

[basedurngod333221]

Thanks a lot for the response. A few questions/comments:

Surface 1 (Secret Agent & 00 Agent): NTSC-J for better auto-aim

Auto aim is irrel for the one guard you need to kill. Lots of people use the sniper rifle for it even. Headshots are harder with auto aim as well.

I would think the optimal way to get a fast run would be to never stop looking down in the hut while killing the guard, like Carl-Magnus Wall's SA run, in order to minimize lag. It likely wouldn't make much of a difference, though, but if there's no other disadvantages, why not NTSC-J?

Bunker 1 (all difficulties): NTSC-J for better auto-aim and faster quick-pauses.

Where did you get this information about faster quick pauses? I've never heard this, and personally I don't feel a difference. NTSC-J is definitely best for 00A.

Karl Jobst said it's a frame or two faster while going for Bunker 1 Agent 0:16.

Surface 2 (00 Agent): NTSC-J for the current WR strat by David Clemens and Ilari Pekkala because of the superior auto-aim, but there are faster strats that require no auto-aim, so otherwise ???

Again, a headshot on the grenade pulling guard is more optimal and harder with auto aim.

Yeah, that's why I'm not sure what the fastest version would be with the no-auto-aim strat.

Aztec: ??? It seems to be split between NTSC-J and PAL for most people, but I'm not sure which is better. PAL should theoretically have less lag and faster AR-33 firing rate but the doors open in 1.2 seconds instead of 1.0 seconds and the auto-aim is worse. I've heard guards in PAL react slower.

Basically completely player preference. In my opinion NTSC-J is the best for Agent, and PAL for SA and 00A, although the better auto aim on 00A is very important, but if you can handle it on PAL it should be better. Also PAL has been known to provide nicer big rooms at the ending, with 0 hits being seen on some rare occasions, but I dont believe this is because of slower guard reactions, I think that is a myth.

Why do you think NTSC-J is the best for Agent? Faster door opens/better auto aim? I would think PAL would help the most on Agent due to the effects on auto aim being so small compared to the other difficulties.

[flicker]

Karl Jobst said it's a frame or two faster while going for Bunker 1 Agent 0:16.

Okay fair enough, although some hard evidence would be nice for this claim.

Why do you think NTSC-J is the best for Agent? Faster door opens/better auto aim? I would think PAL would help the most on Agent due to the effects on auto aim being so small compared to the other difficulties.

The faster doors matter more on Agent and the AR33 still fires pretty well on NTSC-J, it's a bit of a tradeoff but i think NTSC-J comes out slightly ahead.

[Irie]

B2 SA is better on English, you don't use auto aim. Agent and 00 better on ntsc-j for sure because of autoaim.
Depot SA/00 we turn auto aim off so that's not why anyone should use ntsc-j on the level. But I do prefer it still, because there's smaller text when the objectives complete as you are running out of the mainframe room and it's less distracting. In fact that's a plus to most levels otherwise equal. Also always felt more smooth to me playing depot on j.
Cradle J is quite the convenience, the auto aim on SA/00 helps runs a lot.
Egypt especially SA/00 is nice to play on j because auto aim on the annoying guard as you go to the second baron is helpful.
Lots of stuff is pretty preference, and is mainly "is it worth not being lazy switching carts to play this level"
As I mentioned, the smaller completion text helps a lot on Jap. But some people are anal about the endscreen, and/or want the time saved on their English cart. Anyways good topic but we gotta put all the info together to make it what it needs to be.

[SGT RAGEQUIT]

Frig Agent is player preference - I found it easier to get consistent hostage taker kills on NTSC-U, the Jap autoaim was too strong.

[eastwood]

Systems Records might be what you're after - https://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye/systems

[Calle W]

Surface 1 00 on NTSC-J is definitely better due to low lag in the first hut. On SA the difference is smaller, but I prefer playing on NTSC-J. I feel like NTSC-U has weird lag spikes here and there.

[Wodahs-Reklaw]

The door speed difference is pretty significant between PAL/NTSC on Aztec. JP is the best version for pure speed since autoaim is very helpful for that stage. PAL is a little better for surviving and not getting hit around so much.

[basedurngod333221]

B2 SA is better on English, you don't use auto aim.

Why does this make English better? Wouldn't it be the same then? As for NTSC-J having smaller completion text, I'm fairly sure it's the other way around. The font used in Japanese takes up a lot more screen space.

[Irie]

These things take 5 seconds to check yourself but sure I'll spend 5 minutes posting this for you instead. Japanese text is smaller and I don't speak it therefor myself and many others find it less distracting as it pops up on screen.
As for b2 SA, the wrs are done on english, and all of Ace's 44 dupes while he went for 43 we're on English as well. I have put many hours into the level myself, and have got many better runs on English. There doesn't always have to be a rhyme or reason, sometimes just playing the level enough on both versions is enough to develop an opinion, and so English is my preferred version when playing b2 SA

[basedurngod333221]

I would interpret that as English being "smaller" due to taking up less vertical screen space, but the Japanese version does take up less horizontally.

[OHMSS]

For what you're seeking there is a list by Marc Rützou somewhere on these boards.

[Wuldntuliktono]

Ntsc has the advantage of less aggressive guard animations and what feels like slightly lower accuracy so on levels like frigate and bunker 2 sa and a few others where you really don't want boosts and getting shot while trying to free a hostage or shoot oit a cam can kill your run ntsc has its advantages.

[taber]

On Depot Agent, I found trainshot easier on English. It feels like the aim sensitivity is slightly higher on English

[Icy]

My personal rule of thumb:

Jungle/Train/Cav SA -> PAL if available, otherwise Jap
Aztec SA/00A -> Jap for auto-aim, PAL for survivability
If you need auto-aim and/or BA -> Jap
Otherwise -> NTSC-U

Some people believe Jap has more aggressive AI/stronger accuracy/[insert myth here], and if you do and benefit from that such as on Streets Agent, play with Jap. Some people also believe Jap is laggier/believe Jap is less laggy, and if you do, make your pick between Jap and NTSC-U.

The version WR table is a good resource.

[Wuldntuliktono]

On Depot Agent, I found trainshot easier on English. It feels like the aim sensitivity is slightly higher on English

Definitely dude i could only get 30 on depot never hitting the ts, i switched to ntsc and within 2 days i hit it probably 15 20 times and got 29, 28, 27, and finally 26.

[basedurngod333221]

Aztec SA/00A -> Jap for auto-aim, PAL for survivability

Why is PAL more survivable? Why are the guards less accurate? And what would you say for Aztec A? What about pure speed assuming good execution?

As for Japanese having "more aggressive guards", it seems strange to me as this would increase difficulty, where the developers clearly tried to make the Japanese version as easy as possible. Perhaps the guards use the same "auto-aim" as the player. Otherwise, this myth seems strange to justify in a thread intended to be based around facts.

[Irie]

When there's really no hard difference between a version for a level, you gotta let us have our preferences based on the myths dude. There isn't always facts to work with but there is all our time spent on the game so might as well let this thread serve for us stating all our opinions based purely on hours played. Somehow guy up here can't hit a train shot on Jap and I hit it almost every run, all my current records on depot are on Jap. There isn't always a rhyme or reason it's just one didn't work for someone but the other version did. I do feel the guards play nicer on English/pal. Even if not everyone agrees, and if not everything is based on facts, at least we have a thread sharing how people see the different versions. Clearly if there were facts to base every level off of, this thread would already be made by now with a comprehensive list. But no it's a lot more opinion so just listen to those who dumped tons of hours into the game, and if you'd like take the opinions with a grain of salt. At least still welcome the opinions though

[Wuldntuliktono]

When there's really no hard difference between a version for a level, you gotta let us have our preferences based on the myths dude. There isn't always facts to work with but there is all our time spent on the game so might as well let this thread serve for us stating all our opinions based purely on hours played. Somehow guy up here can't hit a train shot on Jap and I hit it almost every run, all my current records on depot are on Jap. There isn't always a rhyme or reason it's just one didn't work for someone but the other version did. I do feel the guards play nicer on English/pal. Even if not everyone agrees, and if not everything is based on facts, at least we have a thread sharing how people see the different versions. Clearly if there were facts to base every level off of, this thread would already be made by now with a comprehensive list. But no it's a lot more opinion so just listen to those who dumped tons of hours into the game, and if you'd like take the opinions with a grain of salt. At least still welcome the opinions though

Amen to that! Sometimes even if those myths arent true if your not having luck on one version and you feel the other is working out maybe its placebo effect or maybe its just a boost of cofidence thst allows you to finally grind that run out!

[rhakiath]

Having played both NTSC versions, I can say with certainty that the Japanese guards are unmerciful compared to the English ones. I feel they react faster in general, put a bit more pressure on you than English.

I feel a slight difference in some levels and places, but I don't believe my times changed that much on most levels.

[OHMSS]

Aztec SA/00A -> Jap for auto-aim, PAL for survivability

Why is PAL more survivable? Why are the guards less accurate?

An explanation attempt: NTSC has 20% faster frame rate compared to PAL so the developers had to tweak the numbers (number of frames guard reaction time, probability that shooting guard hits you in this frame,* ...) to make the gameplay similar between the two versions. But that can not be done perfectly on a simple digital platform: for example, 8 frames reaction time on NTSC corresponds to 6.6666 frames on PAL ... do you set it to 7 or 6 frames? It seems they set things in a fashion that made PAL a bit more survivable. But they did a pretty good job in making the gaming experience similar between the versions IMO.

* That's just software-intuition guesswork; I don't know the internal details.

[basedurngod333221]

When there's really no hard difference between a version for a level, you gotta let us have our preferences based on the myths dude.

Why would you even want this? If someone could show these "myths" are true, I would be glad to know. That's actually the purpose of this thread: For discussion and evidence-based reasoning showing what versions of the game are the best and to make it so preferences will have to be less based on myths due to community discussion and compilation of the facts changing opinions for the better.

[SGT RAGEQUIT]

Oi mate can you not be a shitlord for a second
Like everybody's said, there's no accounting for personal taste, no matter what the facts are.
All of us told you what we know, I don't know what you're going for here

[basedurngod333221]

Oi mate can you not be a shitlord for a second
Like everybody's said, there's no accounting for personal taste, no matter what the facts are.
All of us told you what we know, I don't know what you're going for here

How is that being a shitlord? Basing my beliefs on facts and evidence makes me a shitlord? There is accounting for personal taste when the facts go against you. Your personal taste may make you believe PAL is the best version for Dam, or NTSC-U is the best version for Train, but you would be incorrect. Similar distinctions may exist for NTSC-J vs NTSC-U on many levels, or they may not. There are obvious advantages to NTSC-J over NTSC-U on some levels, while on others, it's less clear. If there is some reason why a certain version is better than another, it should be measurable in some way, even if it hasn't been measured yet.

[RWG]

Just leave the community, please.

[Irie]

Just leave the community, please.

[basedurngod333221]

Just leave the community, please.

The hive mind of this community is strong. Any newcomer who comes with anything but a mindset of absolute cluelessness and unquestioning acceptance of "authority" is shunned and outcast; look to Whiteted for an example of this. If I had just said "Oh, you're higher ranked than me and you say this is true so I guess it is! Thanks, Irie!" then nobody would be offended. As soon as you expect people to actually verify their claims or at least give them some merit before you accept them, and you aren't an already-established name in the community, the name-calling and blatant trolling rolls in.

Note I never once insulted or "trolled" anyone in this thread. All I did was expect people to prove their claims (or at least give some reason for them; note the CW comment I appended to my OP) before lending them enough credence to accept that a particular version is better or modify my OP in any way. If I updated the post saying "Bunker 2 (Secret Agent): NTSC-U because Irie said so and all the world records are on that version", it wouldn't stand up very well to scrutiny.

The intention of this thread is to compile information for ease of access by newer players who may have multiple versions but are unsure of which version to play for each level. I personally have access to all three versions of the game which is why it would be useful for me to know this. The system rankings already do a good job of showing what versions people prefer to use, but I want to find out which versions are actually the best for each level. As the game becomes more optimized, version differences may become even more prominent; for example, Jobst discovering that NTSC-J actually has faster quick-pauses than NTSC-U, thus making Bunker 1 Agent 16 less difficult to achieve. This specific discovery by Jobst inspired me to create this thread, as before that I was under the impression that both NTSC versions were the same for this level, or that it was down to personal preference/"myths". Even better, an actual measured verification of the "aggressive Japanese guards myth" would allow me to even better decide the best versions; if this were true, it'd make B1A even better on Japanese.

A question to the moderators of the forum: Is blatant trolling and off-topic spam allowed in otherwise substantive threads? I wouldn't mind at all if the last 3 posts in this thread (including this one) were removed for meaningless trolling/pointless argument.

[Wouter Jansen]

Thanks for making this topic, I've felt for a long time that something like this would be very useful. (especially if I'd be active) (maybe reword version to system? I think it would be clearer, and if there are any actual version differences eg 1.0 vs 1.1, that can be added in the post)

Jobst discovering that NTSC-J actually has faster quick-pauses than NTSC-U, thus making Bunker 1 Agent 16 less difficult to achieve.

I didn't know this and I find information like this interesting and useful and a good idea to add to the topic, especially if you can add proof / videos / (indepth) explanations / research documents / anything else that could be useful. (though may want to post it separately and link to it in OP to not clutter it)

[basedurngod333221]

Are there actually different versions like 1.0, 1.1, etc? I thought the only difference in terms of "version" was the region, i.e. USA vs. Japan vs. Europe/Australia. If this is the case, then I will gladly revise the title as I agree this would be more clear.

I can't find any information about this online. How would I determine which version of the game my cartridge is, if this is indeed true?

[Wuldntuliktono]

Are there actually different versions like 1.0, 1.1, etc? I thought the only difference in terms of "version" was the region, i.e. USA vs. Japan vs. Europe/Australia. If this is the case, then I will gladly revise the title as I agree this would be more clear.

I can't find any information about this online. How would I determine which version of the game my cartridge is, if this is indeed true?

No there arent. If you look on the back of an n64 cart youll see some numbers lightly stamped into the back. Its near on my ntsc cart where it says nus-usa/can and has 00. The numbers arent important, if its just numbers its version 1.0 which all ge carts are. On my oot it says 19b, this means this cart is verzion 1.2. So if a cart says 18a its version 1.1 if 29b its 1.2, but all ge carts are 1.0 and i believe the same with perfect dark.

[Alka Maass]

lol

[mw]

A question to the moderators of the forum: Is blatant trolling and off-topic spam allowed in otherwise substantive threads?

No, of course not. Good thing this isn't a substantive thread.

[SGT RAGEQUIT]

As soon as you expect people to actually verify their claims or at least give them some merit before you accept them, and you aren't an already-established name in the community, the name-calling and blatant trolling rolls in.

You literally took Karl's word about quickpauses without any other data, and nobody else to corroborate it. no hypocrisy there 

And we're not against you because you're new, we're against you because you're coming off like an asshole

[OHMSS]

When there's really no hard difference between a version for a level, you gotta let us have our preferences based on the myths dude.

Why would you even want this? If someone could show these "myths" are true, I would be glad to know. That's actually the purpose of this thread: For discussion and evidence-based reasoning showing what versions of the game are the best and to make it so preferences will have to be less based on myths due to community discussion and compilation of the facts changing opinions for the better.

Duuude. It's like the decision of an NBA player between two very similar shoe models, which will be based on thoughts like "I feel I can do some key movements better in these" and not "after months of research I determined that these will lead to 0.2% more agility and 1 more assist per season". It's not always meaningful or effective to base a decision on quantitative data or precise protocol. Many people here developed a very good intuition of this sort for speedrunning GE, and by telling them "lol noobz y u no use teh scientivic methodz" you question their common sense, which is insulting.

[basedurngod333221]

Peripheral and equipment preference is not the same as a hard-coded program which has a single defined way to behave and function for all individuals equally. Shoe preference could have a lot to do with height, weight, size of your feet, what mood you are in that day, etc. What version of the game is best has nothing to do with any of that. It all has to do with what functions the most optimally to get the fastest time.

[Wuldntuliktono]

Yea dude some really solid advice would be not to attack irie, not only is he like the chillest down to earth guy here, but i slways see him in multiple peoples streams giving advice on what their doing wrong and how to optimize stuff that leads to them getting pbs! If your serious about wanting to run ge and get good times, youll definitely want him in your stream helping you, rather then pissing him and the rest of the guys in the community off so much no one wants to help you!

[rhakiath]

So why not make 3 different TASes for each of the 60 levels, perhaps include LTK and DLTK as well. Shouldn't be that much work as the other TASers in the community can attest. That would be a really good contribution and probably be greeted a lot better than this thread, where you implicitly demand others to do the work and then question their conclusions.

In a game like OOT where text scrolls quicker on Japanese and certain glitches only work on 1.0 for example, there is a clear difference in runs. In Goldeneye, all 3 versions are run by many top players, and it's entirely possible to get to the top 50 or so on any version; therefore it only really matters on a few levels to about 50 people. For a beginning speedrunner, Japanese is definitely worth it for the Body Armors because they benefit newer players the most. The skill and knowledge apparent in the top runners is so obviously beyond the scope of the average runner that it's worth focusing on getting better long before considering which version we play. The boring 4 type times are also generally available to any version; it's really SA and 00A where the version as well as skill tends to matter more.

Aside from that type of comparison, we all play differently so many players may prefer different versions based on what we're used to or our playing styles. Not to mention that some of us go for less than a WR/Untied goal time in a given session, which can use strats or game versions that are different than the WR. Most version WRs are within a second of the overall WR, so few legit players would claim it as an excuse for falling short of a given time. Most of the top players aren't interested in getting version untieds, because it would prove nothing.

Serious question to the OP: Have you ever played more than one version yourself?

[OHMSS]

Peripheral and equipment preference is not the same as a hard-coded program which has a single defined way to behave and function for all individuals equally. Shoe preference could have a lot to do with height, weight, size of your feet, what mood you are in that day, etc. What version of the game is best has nothing to do with any of that. It all has to do with what functions the most optimally to get the fastest time.

You should try getting a solid time on a complex level, that'd resolve your confusion and shit talking.

[Huzi]

[KevinDDR]

Peripheral and equipment preference is not the same as a hard-coded program which has a single defined way to behave and function for all individuals equally. Shoe preference could have a lot to do with height, weight, size of your feet, what mood you are in that day, etc. What version of the game is best has nothing to do with any of that. It all has to do with what functions the most optimally to get the fastest time.

Not even remotely close to true. See Caverns A, where different parts of the level run at different frame rates on NTSC U and J. Some people prefer taking the extra boostage on JP and smoother ending in exchange for the shittier frame rate in some spots while some would rather grind a little more for extra boosts on NTSC and a significantly higher frame rate at the start of the stage and the spiral. Both versions would undoubtedly come within frames of each other with literal perfect runs but it's a *clear non issue* because we are not simply TASes that can play literally perfectly. Some people need the assistance in parts of one version over the other.

[basedurngod333221]

Serious question to the OP: Have you ever played more than one version yourself?

Yes, all three.

Not even remotely close to true. See Caverns A, where different parts of the level run at different frame rates on NTSC U and J. Some people prefer taking the extra boostage on JP and smoother ending in exchange for the shittier frame rate in some spots while some would rather grind a little more for extra boosts on NTSC and a significantly higher frame rate at the start of the stage and the spiral. Both versions would undoubtedly come within frames of each other with literal perfect runs but it's a *clear non issue* because we are not simply TASes that can play literally perfectly. Some people need the assistance in parts of one version over the other.

So it's completely true. The versions clearly have differences that affect your times in an objectively measurable way. Which one is better would only be dependent on player skill and what leads to more consistent runs. If it was impossible to get 1:01 without those couple extra frames, NTSC-U would clearly be better. If the time was impossible to get without lots of boosts and NTSC-U had 1% the probability to boost as NTSC-J, yet the time wasn't extremely tight, in terms of time invested, NTSC-J would obviously be superior to achieve WR. The point is that there are differences and they are notable and affect speedruns in an objective way, even if I don't necessarily believe Japanese has higher boost probability without some sort of statistical analysis or explanation using the game's code for why this is.

[KevinDDR]

No, higher boost probability (due to faster AR firing rate and faster frame rate in low frame rate spots such as any time a guard is firing at you BTW) does NOT mean that the JP TAS could be better. NTSC U can still get every boost that J does. As for the frame rate thing, good luck ever deciding "objectively" which is better because there are so many factors that determine the lag in every spot of the stage that you will never manage to figure out exactly how much faster or slower lag-wise one version is (or if the areas where one version is faster actually make any difference). Emulators of course don't come anywhere close.

[Wuldntuliktono]

Have you even achieved a time worth any points yet? Serious question 2 btw.

[basedurngod333221]

Have you even achieved a time worth any points yet? Serious question 2 btw.

Yes, but I don't submit to the-elite.

[Wuldntuliktono]

Have you even achieved a time worth any points yet? Serious question 2 btw.

Yes, but I don't submit to the-elite.

Ok well then why are you here then?

[basedurngod333221]

To compile information for myself and the community.

[rhakiath]

I don't necessarily believe Japanese has higher boost probability without some sort of statistical analysis or explanation using the game's code for why this is.
[/quote]

Then make a poll, if we all agree then you'll still ignore it. Generally coming to the community for information is fine, even if you haven't contributed effort to find the answer yourself. Just don't reject the consensus response and argue if you don't get what you want. I'm a noob myself, don't have any points, but at least no one's calling me a shitlord.

As for analyzing the game's code, you can feel free to do it yourself. Since the source code isn't public for all 3 versions, you'll need to reverse engineer everything using fairly primitive tools three times over. Then there's the hardware differences as well, which mean that the assembly code itself for each machine will be different in theory. Plus the people who worked on the game who would know the answer have had 20+ years to forget, as well as likely being bound by contract not to release certain details.

Though the game's source code was written in plain C, per Dr. Doak, that language is compiled to a specific Assembly which is designed to run on the N64's chips (and it's easy for that machine to understand, but nigh incomprehensible to humans). To find anything out, we need to log everything that's happening during gameplay and monitor different values to see what changes. That's for the simplest stuff; there are many memory addresses in an N64 game which can change their functionality as well as values, and nothing is named; the address where the ammo counter is stored might have a name like 00AD83FF 0000 or something.

The people who work on that sort of thing have a lot of knowledge and ability and have done a lot of nice work already. People who know Assembly and C and have the ability to take on this sort of project would probably rather spend the hundreds of hours paying their bills and making six figures as highly sought-after programmers. Acting like they're lazy or have overlooked this aspect of the game despite all the contributions they've made is shitty.

Conversely, people without those skills who have spent thousands of hours playing the game itself are offering their opinion. Essentially since Goldeneye is timed by the second the differences don't add up on most levels to prevent a time from being possible.

[Blue Khakis]

This thread leaves such a bitter taste.

OP started the thread because he wanted to know the measurable differences between versions and when he chose not to derail HIS OWN THREAD by questioning why anecdotal evidence and subjective opinion are valuable, he has had five or six heavyweight eliters line up to belittle and chat shit at him.

He has not once told anyone else to abandon their own preferences or how they should play; he has just expressed a preference for measurable factors and a disinterest in non-measurable ones. The dude has been here like a week, created a great topic that could be an extremely valuable resource for beginners and actually had the balls not to lower his own standards of proof despite attempts by half a dozen veteran players to tell him what opinion he should have. The fact that he continues with the project at all in the face of ad hominems and arguments from authority is pretty fucking commendable.

[Irie]

Sorry we aren't all intj geniuses, we just "only" have a collected thousands of hours playing the game. We tried to add to this thread with everything we possibly could, helping gather all knowledge and reason for preference that even if some could be myths, at least someone could once and for all bust the myths or prove them right. But no, the OP doesn't care about that, only wants information he's too lazy to find himself, and information that probably isn't even out there period. Most things he wants is not measurable in his scientific method, and if that's all we can add to this thread then just bin it because there's nothing else to mention based around his terrible specifications. Could've had a healthy discussion and sorted out the myths/preferences from the measurable, for the sake of more info and let people believe what they believe, but no he'd rather be a dipshit. That's fine, you don't even post to the elite, and clearly don't give a shit so frankly we don't care. We are very helpful to those with the right attitude. Aka not kooks like you