Author Topic: Issues with the elite need to be resolved  (Read 5479 times)

Alec M.

  • Posts: 2645
  • TroubleClef92
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
    • 2016RankingsDev
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #50 on: November 28, 2018, 06:58:21 am »
You should learn about harmful words, and all words, before utilising them. Look up the definition of facism, then come back with a proper response, knowing how truly ignorant you sound.

You ought to contribute to the thread in a positive way instead of hurling baseless and laughable insults at others.

Facism isn't a joke. Don't treat it as such. Grow up and adopt some responsibility.

EDIT: No longer feeding this troll.
"Train smarter, not harder" -Mike O'Hearn
GoldenEye Proof Moderator as of February 2015

mop890

  • Posts: 36
    • GE
    • twitch
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #51 on: November 28, 2018, 07:02:58 am »
I'm curious as to why some people keep framing this as [Banned User #7] being maligned simply for his opinions. I could give a shit less what opinions that weird little fucker wants to hold, or whether or not his times are even ranked. It's when he steps outside of himself and directly fucks with other people that I draw the line. I might think he's a scumfuck, but his opinions don't mean shit to me. It's how he treats the rest of the community, who has done nothing but put up with his stupid ass for farrrr too long. This isn't about politics or any of that shit, at least not for me. It's about one cancerous tumor that does nothing but stir shit up, and sit back to watch it implode. How hard is that for some people to understand?

throwaway22

  • Posts: 6
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #52 on: November 28, 2018, 07:23:57 am »
You should learn about harmful words, and all words, before utilising them. Look up the definition of facism, then come back with a proper response, knowing how truly ignorant you sound.

You ought to contribute to the thread in a positive way instead of hurling baseless and laughable insults at others.

Facism isn't a joke. Don't treat it as such. Grow up and adopt some responsibility.

EDIT: No longer feeding this troll.

You attempt to censor and oppress anyone with opposing views. You assert yourself as morally superior, despite not being able to defend any of your views when confronted. You scurry away and hide behind "post count" ad hominems.

You dislike anonimity and seem to wish to smear and mischaracterize people's views and assign guilt by association when they try to defend others from your attacks.

What are you if not a Fascist? Just a coward?

404

  • Posts: 2079
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2018, 07:56:19 am »
Alec, thanks for explaining what's going on in post #21. The first 20 posts didn't give me any idea about what all the fuzz is about. 20 fucking non-informative posts.

PSA: Please do not assume that everybody is up to date with the latest Discord gossip when making a thread. Especially under such groundshaking circumstances.

Counselors going rogue sounds really bad and should be prevented. In general I am pro-council though, mostly because I remember public discussions and votes from the pre-council days where just too many guys chimed in on technical matters who didn't play GE or PD in more than 5 years or were just weird in order ways.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 08:04:37 am by ohmss »

AZ

  • Posts: 5796
    • AxZ
    • 2015CommunityContributor
    • 2017SilverStar
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2018, 08:52:33 am »
Alec, thanks for explaining what's going on in post #21. The first 20 posts didn't give me any idea about what all the fuzz is about.

PSA: Please do not assume that everybody is up to date with the latest Discord gossip when making a thread.

Light

  • Posts: 780
  • Grand Crusader
    • Mr. Guru
    • GE
    • PD
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #55 on: November 28, 2018, 09:37:14 am »
tl;dr dinosaur post carry on

It's amusing to me that Goose got someone else kicked off for character in the-elite.  He's definitely gotten people wanting him gone around here at least a few times himself in the past.  (goose at least was a drama queen if you are unaware of the-elite history)  I haven't been in discord at all lately so idk what's going on here so I'll just keep this simple--some of the shit several of the council members have said I've seen are lifetime ban worthy themselves. 


Goose really hasn't changed over the entire time he's been here. It's the same old shit, just maybe worded differently because he's a decade older. It's also amusing to me that he's apparently been banned from AGDQ and posts a twitter apology saying he'll change, when he's about the last person who probably would.

Guado

  • Posts: 189
    • Guado
    • GE
    • PD
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #56 on: November 28, 2018, 10:14:39 am »

I'm no fan of the council but I can't pretend to have any say in what goes on around here.
Had some time to read up on everything. Posted elsewhere. Seen this before. Been on many sides. It's annoying. It sucks. I think updated conduct rules are in order....or you know, just ban the troublemakers from discord/forums, at least until things calm down. Censorship, yeah, no, just like chill out. I'm interested in another 30 years of the-elite. Just, uh, act like adults? Please? Directed at people slinging insults and words.

Anyways I'm playing an RPG right now so I'm gonna be on my way.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 05:34:13 pm by Guado »
90+ hrs into XC2 NG+, going for 100%. Be back when I get bored.

Alka Maass

  • Posts: 212
  • Defense Strat Maasster
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #57 on: November 28, 2018, 05:29:50 pm »
I agree it is an awful day to be an eliter and am ashamed to be a part of this community as is.

If nothing is done toward this i don't speak for others but i will be requesting the removal of my times page and leaving the community and i know others hold this sentiment also.
don't do it, you can anonymize your profile mate

Shadow

  • Posts: 1232
  • The American Shadow
    • GE
    • PD
    • 2017SilverStar
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2018, 03:17:11 pm »
Alec, thanks for explaining what's going on in post #21. The first 20 posts didn't give me any idea about what all the fuzz is about. 20 fucking non-informative posts.

PSA: Please do not assume that everybody is up to date with the latest Discord gossip when making a thread. Especially under such groundshaking circumstances.

Counselors going rogue sounds really bad and should be prevented. In general I am pro-council though, mostly because I remember public discussions and votes from the pre-council days where just too many guys chimed in on technical matters who didn't play GE or PD in more than 5 years or were just weird in order ways.

I agree wholeheartedly. I read through three threads and 100+ posts before even having an inkling about what this [banned user #7] mumbo was all about. And I'm still not sure I understand everything.

Polling the community is great for input, but at the end of the day there needs to be people to make a decision. Majority decisions aren't good, particularly when there isn't even consideration of a quorum, just "whoever happened to vote". However much Goose and other despised the previous council for being disconnected, they still maintained some level of sanity to the constant cries for change. The current (or at least as of last month) council had both strong and weak aspects but better than nothing.

Luke

  • Posts: 6443
  • Zero-Time P.O.M.
    • Luke
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #59 on: November 30, 2018, 04:31:23 pm »
Who is actually left on the "council" as of right now?
LAS

#TeamLevelRotation

TheFlash

  • Posts: 2761
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #60 on: November 30, 2018, 04:32:13 pm »
Who is actually left on the "council" as of right now?

https://rankings.the-elite.net/proof

Quote
The current members of The Elite Council are:

Luke Szklarz
Alec "Troubleclef" McDonald
Daniel "Wodahs" Coelho
Bryan "Boss" Bosshardt
Kyle "Flicker" Wiebenga

As far as I can tell, this page has been kept up to date within hours of each recent resignation or booting-out. Dedicated site members mw and Huzi have been staying on top of things! Nice job guys.

I happen to know that one of the removed names still has the "The Council" role on the forums, though.

Shadow

  • Posts: 1232
  • The American Shadow
    • GE
    • PD
    • 2017SilverStar
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #61 on: November 30, 2018, 04:47:48 pm »
I'm actually fine with that council lineup, for the most part.

Slugg Christ

  • Posts: 61
  • Literal bad boy
    • GE
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #62 on: December 01, 2018, 03:21:42 am »
Extremely disappointing times for the community right now...
This current political climate of hostility has gotten out of hand.

Only in this generation would rational opinions get you called a "fascist".....

When we reach the point where we can't play 20 year old video games fast anymore without getting heated and splitting the community based on political beliefs, it might be time to step back and reassess what's going on here.

With BU#7
It seems like we're going to have to decide if we care more about people's feelings, or the integrity of the rankings.
If we decide that we don't want somebodys opinions and morals to be reflective of ours as a community, wouldn't it be enough just to ban said user from Discord/Forums? Make a public statement disavowing them if necessary?

A very slippery slope, and a community where you can be purged for having the "wrong opinions" isn't one I feel very comfortable putting hundreds of hours of time into.
If you haven't cheated, your times should stay up.

I'm here to compete, not looking for a safe space.

Seems to me that we need either
A) at least a bi-annual election for ALL council members, limited to say.. 5 spots?

B) Community driven polls requiring 60%+ support of all decisions and the disbandment of the council.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 04:07:43 am by Slugg Christ »

falzy211

  • Posts: 50
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #63 on: December 05, 2018, 12:49:14 pm »
It’s maybe fair to say that it’s unbelivable that the discord messages going around the internet were allowed on here. Whether or not it was the elites most famous speedrunner.

The elite needs to be more careful with how it acts on public forums in general. Ive seen people posting nudes of their one night stands in twich chats. There are discord messages going around from other eliters some very well known that are quite offensive too

It’s really serious. If all this went mainstream you would end up losing your entire community and it’s website.

All that kind of stuff you need to clean out ASAP. Even if it means removing people from
The elite

iriebutler

  • Posts: 59
    • GE
    • twitch
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #64 on: December 05, 2018, 05:44:24 pm »
Why are you vaguely condemning us all for the actions of a couple? Does it need to be stated again that the bad discussions floating around were said in either 1. The politics channel of the elite discord which almost everyone had muted or 2. Goose's own discord which most of us didn't use or regularly check either. Most people went into it and left within a minute. It doesn't take long to realize people who you don't agree with are posting things of opinions you don't share. And it doesn't take an awful disgusting convo to get that idea either. I will not let myself or most others take responsibility for this mess. With everything coming to light no one is ignoring what was said, and everyone is condemning it for the most part. Judge us on our actions now, judging us on our actions before this mess is just being a keyboard warrior. It is NOT fair to say these discord messages were allowed on here, actions are being taken to fix the situation. Sorry that discord banned goose entirely, so the elite wasn't able to ban him individually, thus proving to you "we don't allow it" but it being so bad discord banned him altogether should just help further point us in our direction as a site.
*Inventor of thumb condoms*

Saltkillzsnails

  • Posts: 33
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #65 on: December 05, 2018, 05:53:28 pm »
You'll probably recognize him from the Steven Z topic, just completely against the entire community over that whole spat and especially against Goose. Then after this whole spat theres blood in the water and has the perfect opportunity to hit all of you guys as a whole. It isn't right, the vast majority did nothing wrong, are against it, and trying to move forward

TheFlash

  • Posts: 2761
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #66 on: December 05, 2018, 05:56:35 pm »
everyone is condemning it for the most part

Yeah, everyone except the person in charge of the moderation team on the forums and the rankings, who hasn't posted a single peep on here to that effect.

Is Goose banned from the forums? No? His account seems to be active still. Is he welcome back? Can he still post records?

I feel like there should be some sort of statement so that 1. everyone knows what happened, and 2. everyone knows what the situation is. People all over the forum are stumbling into this and have nowhere to see what is going on.

falzy211

  • Posts: 50
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #67 on: December 05, 2018, 06:35:47 pm »
SZ?
Are you on that!
Did you see what was posted on that discord! The elite let that stuff be said for 18 months without doing anything.
More than that no discussion has been allowed. It had to be discussed on Reddit, which is far worse

Do any of you not think about the non white or Jewish people who uses this site might think about the silence on this? They’ve got seriously offensive comments from at least 2 of your most respected runners

Thai isn’t a vendetta. I left this site happily and only back because I couldn’t believe what I was reading. I’m not the only one.

I think it’s safe to say past me made the right choice. God help all of you. I doubt this is over.

Happens

  • Posts: 33
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #68 on: December 05, 2018, 06:41:20 pm »
SZ?
Are you on that!
Did you see what was posted on that discord! The elite let that stuff be said for 18 months without doing anything.
More than that no discussion has been allowed. It had to be discussed on Reddit, which is far worse

Do any of you not think about the non white or Jewish people who uses this site might think about the silence on this? They’ve got seriously offensive comments from at least 2 of your most respected runners

Thai isn’t a vendetta. I left this site happily and only back because I couldn’t believe what I was reading. I’m not the only one.

I think it’s safe to say past me made the right choice. God help all of you. I doubt this is over.

Thank you, next

Zirk

  • Posts: 1
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #69 on: December 05, 2018, 06:44:09 pm »
I've been lurking The-Elite for many years now as it is by far my favourite speedrun community. I'm a bit late to the party because I pretty much never browse the General Chat forum, I only ended up here on this occasion due to recent drama which was subtly referenced in the Goldeneye forum.

I am astounded at the decision to remove BU7 records from the rankings. I agree with trying to erase The-Elite's connection with that person, but it is insane their records are not preserved at least anonymously. The-Elite has been going strong for 20 years, it could easily continue for another 10 years. 10 years from now no one is going to give any thought to who BU7 was or what they stood for, but as a result of this recent decision the provenance of the rankings will remain forever tainted, and for what? Because one lone participant had some highly disagreeable views unrelated to speedrunning?

With the amount of time, care, and dedication that have gone into maintaining the rankings since inception, I consider them to be a holy relic of speedrunning as a whole, having originated when speedrunning of any video game was first taking root. At some point in the far future Goldeneye speedrunning will eventually die, it is sad to think there will eventually be a final occurrence of an untied being set, but it will happen. Even though Goldeneye speedrunning will inevitably come to an end, the rankings will remain forever. One day when I'm an old man I hope I'll still be able to lookup the rankings and see where things stood, rewatch some of the historic runs, and relive how great it was to be a part of the ride as it unfolded.

Think of the many deliberations which have occurred over the decades where maintaining the integrity of the rankings was held to be paramount. Up until now I was highly impressed with how The-Elite handled itself, but the sanctity of the rankings has now been thrown away in favor of public relations. Public opinion of The-Elite in this matter will fade into obscurity in no time at all compared to the legacy of the rankings. This is a disservice not only to the people who put a lot of effort into administering The-Elite and submitting times, but to all gaming enthusiasts.

Think of the precedent this sets if there were to ever be other community members deemed to be too unsavory to be associated with The-Elite. Removing legitimate times from the rankings should be avoided for times of any significance, but especially for world records.

After some more time has passed and emotions have settled, I hope the community will reflect upon this decision.

falzy211

  • Posts: 50
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #70 on: December 05, 2018, 06:58:53 pm »
Perhaps you need this to blow up in your face for you all to realise how serious this all is. This isn’t one guy dropping the n bomb. This was discussing the Jewish question and racial mixing ffs

iriebutler

  • Posts: 59
    • GE
    • twitch
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #71 on: December 05, 2018, 07:16:26 pm »
Here is what Spagooda had to say about the matter, if you don't think we realize this is serious then i don't know what to tell you. For anyone willing to give us any bit of a chance this should help clear things up. Some just want to watch the world burn, other's can maybe stay patient and have this "blow up in our faces" if it isn't dealt with months from now, not tomorrow. Nothing happens overnight.

Posted byu/Spagooda
The-Elite7 days ago
A Message from a Member of The-Elite.Net
Discussion
(Disclaimer: The below are my own personal opinions and, while staying as representative of community opinion as possible, my views do not constitute any sort of "official" stance of anything but The-Elite Discord server.)

Hi /r/speedrun,

There has been a large amount of discussion surrounding the offensive comments made by certain members of The-Elite (T-E), as well as decisions made that affect the GoldenEye rankings. It isn't my intention to talk about the rankings situation. I do want to talk about the chat log screen captures taken from T-E Discord server, how it has affected us as a community, how it isn't representative of us as a community, the change I want to see going forward, and the people who can make that change happen.

For context, I am the current owner of T-E Discord server. I created it in Jan 2016 after proposing it in the forums. At that point, I had been a member of the community for less than a year. The server was a success, bringing together a cliquey and fragmented community that had massively grown during what we call the "Twitch era." Discord was a true social gathering spot that had not existed since the forums were highly active. It was (and is) an absolute blessing for sharing speedrunning knowledge, discussion, and building camaraderie. Unfortunately, being in such tight quarters with individuals also exposes you to their less favorable sides. Much of this discussion occurred in our #news-and-politics channel which was created to filter discussion around the 2016 Presidential election away from the majority of members who had no interest in it. Without getting too political, the channel evolved into something of a haven for right wing ideology while being ignored by all but a handful of members.

While not all of the chat logs that have been passed around are from T-E Discord server, some of them are. I take responsibility for allowing those discussions to take place on the server. I'm absolutely not going to make excuses for the members involved in those comments nor for myself and the moderation team for not nipping it in the bud. Through inaction, I allowed the development of an environment where hateful and hurtful ideals were espoused and inevitably adopted by more impressionable community members that looked up to the instigators, and I sincerely regret it. Without intervention, these conversations did stop taking place in the server and, from what I can gather, moved on to other servers.

I (and T-E Discord server) absolutely and unequivocally oppose any hate speech and bigotry, including attempts at masquerading as "intellectual discussion," "telling it like it is," and "memeing." Moving forward, any of those will not be tolerated in T-E Discord, nor will personal attacks or uncivil conversation that devolves into mean spirited mudslinging. This is not a line I anticipate being crossed very often, as the members who participated in these discussions have already left the server on their own accord or have been banned.

If there is a single clear message that I want to convey, it's that the chat logs that have been passed around with an irresponsible narrative are NOT representative of T-E at large, and the vast majority of the community are vehemently opposed to any anti-semitic, anti-equality, anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric. It makes me both sad and angry that the perception of the community and people that I've grown to love is that "half of them are Nazis" and other similar comments. So many people have this stigma attached through no fault of their own other than they enjoy speedrunning GoldenEye and Perfect Dark competitively. Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the community to change that perception that we are come cult of personality subservient to a single member. So many people want nothing more than this all to go away so we can get back to r-leans and bot zooms, but we Eliters have to work together to bring to light The REAL Elite.

It is unfortunate that the most public and well-known community member is, at a minimum, sympathetic to these views. I offer no defense for him, as there is none to be had. What I CAN offer is a sampling of content that SHOULD be what people think of when they think of The Elite:

The Kapap series is a love letter to the community by our own dsxchallenger, comprised of never-before-posted times in both GoldenEye and Perfect Dark set to great music and interspersed with funny bits and inside jokes.

2015: A GoldenEye Odyssey is another film by dsx, looking in to the life of 3rd-ranked GoldenEye player Wodahs-Reklaw following his Facility Agent 0:43 world record.

Eliter Flechr is actively working on a full series of videos explaining how to get in to speedrunning GoldenEye, including the “meta” of T-E rankings.

We held MOAMathon last month to raise money to get some of our Eliters from out of country to our meet around AGDQ 2019. By all accounts, it was a ton of fun and we are looking forward to putting on more joint community content in the future. You can find the vods on dsx’s channel. To highlight a run, here’s our own MW “speedrunning” Jeopardy with help from the chat.

Irie [https://www.twitch.tv/iriebutler] is a relatively new Eliter who quickly shot in to the top 20 for GoldenEye and has been streaming the whole way. He’s almost always the first one to offer help to new players, and has an extremely positive attitude through all of the rage-inducing moments in these games.

Luke [https://www.twitch.tv/homieonice] is our current GoldenEye champion and very swell mate. Please drop in his stream and bring up Stephen’s Sausage Roll, his favorite game, if you get a chance.

KevinDDR [https://www.twitch.tv/kevinddr] of Tetris fame has recently started breaking Perfect Dark wide open, achieving world records at an amazing pace.

Clemens [https://www.twitch.tv/davidclemensn] is a long-time top player who has been very active recently in both games.

After all of this, I urge you to take a second look at our community and see what wonderfully kind, supportive, intelligent, and empathetic members we have. I am working to, at a minimum, make our Discord server an inviting and helpful place for existing and prospective Eliters.

Thank you,

Spagooda (John)

TL;DR; The-Elite is not represented by its most public members. We are upset at how people perceive us as a result of actions by the minority, and are actively fixing that. Watch some good T-E content above.
*Inventor of thumb condoms*

Blue Khakis

  • Posts: 60
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #72 on: December 05, 2018, 08:09:31 pm »
everyone is condemning it for the most part

Yeah, everyone except the person in charge of the moderation team on the forums and the rankings, who hasn't posted a single peep on here to that effect.

Is Goose banned from the forums? No? His account seems to be active still. Is he welcome back? Can he still post records?

I feel like there should be some sort of statement so that 1. everyone knows what happened, and 2. everyone knows what the situation is. People all over the forum are stumbling into this and have nowhere to see what is going on.
I second this.

Wodahs-Reklaw

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 810
    • Wodahs
    • GE
    • twitch
    • 2017RankingsDev
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #73 on: December 05, 2018, 08:19:11 pm »
I plan on helping as much as I can in addressing many of these issues soon.

Currently I plan on moving forward with some council changes for transparency/ clarity sake and will work with Jimbo (who is our forums administrator) on what to do here.

These things take time I just started a new job and I wanted to make sure everyone is on the same page, etc.
Daniel Wodahs-Relklaw Coelho

wheatrich

  • Posts: 2858
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #74 on: December 05, 2018, 10:38:29 pm »
The reason the perception is bad is because a quarter to a third or so of the newest group of eliters are either full blown gravitrons or hover on the fringes and they are typically not quiet about it.

It's embarrassing because a real man wouldn't give a shit.  Trans?  who gives a ****.  How many men a woman has slept with?  Only an insecure little boy gives a ****.  Complaining about someone seeking attention when that's literally your personality?  GTFO.

You don't have to agree with me politically (the left hates me too btw so that's not an excuse for THAT shit) but the path you are following currently--at the very minimum you'll all have major health issues by 40.

Luke

  • Posts: 6443
  • Zero-Time P.O.M.
    • Luke
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #75 on: December 05, 2018, 11:12:06 pm »


It's embarrassing because a real man wouldn't give a shit.  Trans?  who gives a ****.  How many men a woman has slept with?  Only an insecure little boy gives a ****.  Complaining about someone seeking attention when that's literally your personality?  GTFO.



Amen
LAS

#TeamLevelRotation

Depotnoir

  • Posts: 3
    • GE
    • twitch
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #76 on: December 06, 2018, 09:57:16 am »
It's embarrassing because a real man wouldn't give a shit.  Trans?  who gives a ****.  How many men a woman has slept with?  Only an insecure little boy gives a ****.  Complaining about someone seeking attention when that's literally your personality?  GTFO.

Overcompensating

falzy211

  • Posts: 50
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #77 on: December 06, 2018, 10:03:30 am »
How many of you have actually seen all of the discord messages in question. I won’t
Link them out respect but you can find them on r/speedrun

This was a guy who was discussing hiding his real views, taking over r/speedrun, forming an all white nation and going to war with non whites. All under the elites eye. They implicate a few other pretty popular members too
 
A problem is that many people like me didn’t see this when it happened, and because you’ve kept it quiet, no one really knows what your stance is on this, or the seriousnesss of the stuff in your discord.

I found this out from the Spagooda Reddit post, who along with jimbo and Karl I thought did quite a good
Job Of being transparent and honest and helped a lot.  But given that this apparently started with you banning some other speedrunner for dodgy views on pornography, which was probably a good call, you’re
Going to have to consider doing the same here.

It doesn’t have to be forever. If things get better they can always come back, and maybe should.  But views
Like that don’t just flip in 6 months

This place losing all credibility or worse going under would be terrible. Most of its runners and users are good people. Moreover it’s a site with a fascinating cross section of speed running history. You need to realise though how people currently see this site, and by extension it’s runners, whether it’s fair or not.

You at least need to be transparent about this. Reacting angrily to criticism is not
Helping you. I genuinely hope the site can make a clean break from this



TheFlash

  • Posts: 2761
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #78 on: December 06, 2018, 10:14:58 pm »
How many of you have actually seen all of the discord messages in question.

I don't really use Discord much and if I do, I'm certainly not visiting every little corner to see what's going on there. I do trust that someone is in charge and keeping track of things, though. At least I can somewhat understand that program, unlike the mystery that is Reddit.

I found this out from the Spagooda Reddit post, who along with jimbo and Karl I thought did quite a good
Job Of being transparent and honest and helped a lot

That's cool, but Reddit isn't an official place to communicate things about our rankings site, wider community, or forum.

Neither is Discord.

Notice how the proof call posts are on the forum, not a "pinned item" on Discord? Or how the Elite Council Decision Log topic is on the forum? If someone makes an official statement, it is easily visible to the entire community as a specific topic, not a message lost in the sea of the day's Discord activity.

All I want to see is a post:

1. On the forum
2. By someone in charge
3. Clarifying what the official stance is regarding any of these members

It doesn't have to be a novel, more like a fill in the blank. Something like this:

Quote
Topic: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Official response to recent information about [names go here]

Hi everyone, this is the forum administrator.

Recently we found out that some community members had inappropriate behavior within our Discord server and elsewhere on the internet.  The following decisions have been made regarding these users:

[User 1] is banned from the [community, rankings, discord, forum, twitch, whatever] for [how long]

[User 2] has his rankings account frozen and cannot post on the forums for [duration]

[User 3] is banned from [Discord] for [duration] but can still participate on the forums and will be carefully evaluated.

That's it! That's all we need to see.

I have been personally bullied and targeted by at least one of these individuals for 10 years on the forums, Twitch, and Discord. I just wish someone would say what the result of this is.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 10:20:57 pm by TheFlash »

Luke

  • Posts: 6443
  • Zero-Time P.O.M.
    • Luke
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #79 on: December 06, 2018, 11:26:44 pm »
It's embarrassing because a real man wouldn't give a shit.  Trans?  who gives a ****.  How many men a woman has slept with?  Only an insecure little boy gives a ****.  Complaining about someone seeking attention when that's literally your personality?  GTFO.

Overcompensating


Overcompensating for what?

LAS

#TeamLevelRotation

KevinDDR

  • Posts: 29
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #80 on: December 06, 2018, 11:48:07 pm »
The public opinion of the site continues to deteriorate due to the delayed action taken on the matter of where to go from here, so I figured I'd chime in my 2 cents in the hopes that it encourages discussion amongst the council.
 
I'll be the first to say that I think the only way forward to both make the community a more inclusive place (and a place that newer members might feel welcome in, even though I already think that the actual community of active players vs. Discord/forum non-players/trolls/hangers-on is generally quite inclusive and welcoming to eager new players) is to at a very minimum ban Goose from the forums/Discord and either freeze times page or remove times for an indefinite period of time; essentially permanently unless the council/administration feels that an extraordinary situation (a long term trend of changed behavior, etc) merits a reversal of the decision. Ultimately there is no way around the fact that Goose has come very close to advocating violence against multiple groups of people, and this would never be accepted whatsoever in any of the gaming communities that I have participated in (which admittedly make strong efforts to be inclusive and are usually much better for it). In all the time I have spent gaming, I have never had a more negative reaction when I tell people what games I play than when I mention Goldeneye. The reason for this has every time (with the exception of one time when someone made fun of lookdown  :rolleyes:) been the involvement and promotion of Goose despite the many hateful things he has spewed on all forms of media over the years. This is not a guess on my part, this is literally people telling me this to my face.
 
Recently, the community has decided that it cares enough about the values it promotes (either implicitly or directly) to remove a user completely from the ranks and banish them permanently from the site. The reasons stated were that the user was promoting abhorrent/harmful ideas, harassing admins/users, and making the community a place that new players would not want to join or be associated with. I doubt anyone could look me in the eye and tell me that Goose has not done all three of these things repeatedly over many years even recently. Whether or not you personally think the severity of Goose's offenses are equivalent to the aforementioned banned user, it is obviously clear that to a very significant extent he has been involved in all three of these activities with no outwardly visible sign of stopping (backed up by the fact that some of his fans actually responded to his apology with the equivalent of "wtf don't apologize you cuck, what happened to Stay True?"). Let's not turn this into a pissing contest of what ideas being promoted are the most egregious; I think we can all hopefully agree that many (if not most or all) of the abhorrent/hateful comments made in the-elite's public official Discord (as well as Goose's at the time public Discord) have definitely crossed below what I would hope is the minimum bar of acceptability and would not be tolerated in any kind of remotely socially conscious community. If enough people are telling us that there is a problem, then there is a problem whether or not some users like it. This problem will continue to exist and threaten both the site and its users as long as hateful ideas/comments are not only allowed to flourish in the community but then also indirectly promoted through promotion of the users that espouse/make them.

Jimbo

  • Posts: 4025
  • Elite Historian
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
    • 2015CommunityContributor
    • 2016RankingsDev
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #81 on: December 07, 2018, 12:40:58 am »
As a temporary move, wodahs and I agreed to change the identity on the ranks and remove any contact information from Goose's profile.

Typing up walls of text are a huge waste of time imo, I'm encouraging anyone who's interested to participate in a voice chat on discord sometime this weekend to really hammer out the final actions to take on this matter.

EliminatorJr

  • Posts: 85
  • Bobandy
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #82 on: December 07, 2018, 12:46:43 am »
Bangladesh?
No way, Mr. Lahey. I NEED a cheeseburger!

Alec M.

  • Posts: 2645
  • TroubleClef92
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
    • 2016RankingsDev
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #83 on: December 07, 2018, 01:23:19 am »
As a temporary move, wodahs and I agreed to change the identity on the ranks and remove any contact information from Goose's profile.

Typing up walls of text are a huge waste of time imo, I'm encouraging anyone who's interested to participate in a voice chat on discord sometime this weekend to really hammer out the final actions to take on this matter.

Reprehensible imo. Should have been a council or wider discussion.

NOT FOR TWO PEOPLE TO DECIDE!!! I tried to get Jim to call me because I have a great solution.
Rip that idea I guess
"Train smarter, not harder" -Mike O'Hearn
GoldenEye Proof Moderator as of February 2015

Wodahs-Reklaw

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 810
    • Wodahs
    • GE
    • twitch
    • 2017RankingsDev
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #84 on: December 07, 2018, 01:25:55 am »
Quote
Reprehensible imo. Should have been a council or wider discussion.

NOT FOR TWO PEOPLE TO DECIDE!!! I tried to get Jim to call me because I have a great solution.

I fucked up, I thought we were talking about the forums (which Jim was moderator for), and even then I would have preferred a council vote before doing anything.

As soon as I realized what he actually did (rename on the ranks) I told Jim to roll back the change stating that it should be something the Council decides and we are in the process of addressing that issue atm.
Daniel Wodahs-Relklaw Coelho

Alec M.

  • Posts: 2645
  • TroubleClef92
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
    • 2016RankingsDev
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #85 on: December 07, 2018, 01:28:48 am »
I fucked up, I thought we were talking about the forums (which Jim was moderator for), and even then I would have preferred a council vote before doing anything.

As soon as I realized what he actually did I told Jim to roll back the change stating that it should be something the Council decides.

Ryan's email needs to be reinstated and name needs tobbe relinked/restored ASAP, then we can all decide how this changes or not
"Train smarter, not harder" -Mike O'Hearn
GoldenEye Proof Moderator as of February 2015

Depotnoir

  • Posts: 3
    • GE
    • twitch
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #86 on: December 07, 2018, 05:34:07 am »
It's embarrassing because a real man wouldn't give a shit.  Trans?  who gives a ****.  How many men a woman has slept with?  Only an insecure little boy gives a ****.  Complaining about someone seeking attention when that's literally your personality?  GTFO.

Overcompensating


Overcompensating for what?

Don't wish to de-rail, but there is plenty of extremism in what Goose and others have posted, which ought to be the focus of the criticism, the points wheat focussed on are much more contentious really 
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 06:06:09 am by Depotnoir »

Luke

  • Posts: 6443
  • Zero-Time P.O.M.
    • Luke
    • GE
    • PD
    • twitch
Re: Issues with the elite need to be resolved
« Reply #87 on: December 07, 2018, 06:51:00 am »
oh certainly. you could write essays going over all the most extreme stuff, i was just quoting a sentence which particularly resonated with me.
LAS

#TeamLevelRotation