Poll

Should Ohrami/CV/Banned User #7 be erased from The-Elite community?

YES
57 (66.3%)
NO
29 (33.7%)

Total Members Voted: 85

Voting closed: December 12, 2018, 12:12:58 am

Author Topic: *Official Community Poll for the Complete Banning and Removal of [Banned User #7]/CV*  (Read 5324 times)

Alec M.

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Official community poll. This is on grounds of community image tarnishment and risk potential regarding online presence and association with the named alias.

Leave a comment if you wish!

EDIT: Clarification - This includes ranking presence/times page, the Discord, and the forums.
"Train smarter, not harder" -Mike O'Hearn
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mw

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Note that alts and non-community members are obviously not to be counted in this poll. (looking at "loliflan")
PD Proof Moderator

Botched Movie Quotes

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For clarification for my vote I don't endorse any opinions but I think this is a slippery slope and the same logic can be used to remove other people. But I respect the community decision and I hope that this does not affect opinions of me too much (i.e thinking I endorse x opinion).
*Creator of 'waiting half a sec more cutscene' on b2 agent*
*Creator of 'bounce boost' on streets agent*
*Creator of 'strafe change laser skip' on inves*

KfP1995

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Can we just ensure this post is spread around as much as possible so it is a community wide vote and not another snap decision, I'd say 24 hours minimum but longer would be fine also

Alec M.

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Can we just ensure this post is spread around as much as possible so it is a community wide vote and not another snap decision, I'd say 24 hours minimum but longer would be fine also

I left the poll open for 14 days, but the obvious decision will be implemented mostly likely in less than 3.
"Train smarter, not harder" -Mike O'Hearn
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KfP1995

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Awesome TY alec

KfP1995

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From [Banned User #7]:

An appeal to the-elite community: While many of you have already formed a quite strong opinion on this, and on the idea of banning an individual because of his supposedly heinous political beliefs (regardless of the slippery slope that slides us down as a community), I think that were the members of the-elite community to give me a second chance and somehow contain their automatic seething hatred for everything [Banned User #7], they would see that I am indeed a positive contributor to the community, and have as of yet been barred from posting healthy discussion directly related to the games on the forums, many of which I tried to post on alt accounts but failed to maintain after being caught and banned.

I don't feel I have been given an adequate second chance; the-elite's "second chance" amounted to asking me to ignore the situation for 6 months, and then come back groveling at the-elite's feet and begging for forgiveness after the time was up. Because I had no way to access the actual people who run the site, or the Council, I had nothing left but to take it to Reddit and hope, at least, that the speedrun community could see that what was taking place was not healthy at all for the community or the leaderboard. This led to a huge controversy, and a major example of the Streisand effect, and wound up having ramifications which I never intended. Still, as of yet, I have never been allowed to publicly post on the Discord or forums and plead my case, and any discussion surrounding me has been actively censored on the site. I posit that were I to be given a second chance to access both the Discord and the forums, none of my behaviors would violate the-elite's rules, and my inclusion to the community would have no negative ramifications to the-elite.

Alec M.

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LOL.

"no way to contact..."
DMs are a thing. I for one never got one.

No, we don't say that anything to do with child exploitation being somehow legal (whether it be having a file or viewing material) is grounds for being "political". That's a moral stance he has taken. We don't give second chances to reprehensible individuals.

Making noise doesn't give you what you want. Growing up, however, does.
"Train smarter, not harder" -Mike O'Hearn
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Alka Maass

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LOL.

"no way to contact..."
DMs are a thing. I for one never got one.

No, we don't say that anything to do with child exploitation being somehow legal (whether it be having a file or viewing material) is grounds for being "political". That's a moral stance he has taken. We don't give second chances to reprehensible individuals.

Making noise doesn't give you what you want. Growing up, however, does.
the other people he's tried to add all declined the request, and he had trouble finding out your discord info for obvious reasons

also you just denied his request so  :thinking:

Alec M.

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I *just* denied his request because it's glaringly, obviously too late. He's had literal months to do this.

Continue defending him - it makes you just as reprehensible.
"Train smarter, not harder" -Mike O'Hearn
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Luke

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The slippery slope in this case is believing [Banned User #7] when he says his views are simply political and therefore acceptable.

[Banned User #7] has consistently, openly, and vehemently supported heinous illegal activity of a subject which I stand against. (again this is not simply a "political opinion".)

On top of this, [Banned User #7] has treated many other elite members poorly. Disrespectful, hateful comments and constant trolling scratch the surface.

[Banned User #7] can chose to continue playing GoldenEye 007, but the elite shouldn't be responsible for, or expected to honour his times.

Edit: I also saw a message from [Banned User #7] insinuating / threatening members of the-elite with physical violence at the next GDQ event.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 04:41:54 am by Elite Top 5s »
LAS

#TeamLevelRotation

throwaway22

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Quote from: Alec McDonald
No, we don't say that anything to do with child exploitation being somehow legal (whether it be having a file or viewing material) is grounds for being "political". That's a moral stance he has taken. We don't give second chances to reprehensible individuals.

Morality is all political. Where does this absolute morality you claim to have come from? Your personal feelings? Your religion? Even the law cannot create morality, we've had some incredibly morally reprehensible laws in the past, and still have plenty today. It's just your opinion, just like everyone else's. 

For example, plenty of countries in Europe are having debate about child marriages and whether to allow them after mass migration from the Middle East and North Africa in recent years brought a lot of child brides with them which is a normal and moral custom in their countries.

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201709251057665752-sweden-migrants-child-marriage/

Quote
Embracing New Cultures: Sweden Condones Child Marriage for Immigrants

...
One of the cases involves an underage wife who came to Karlskrona with her husband and a small child. In the other case, the girl was pregnant upon arrival. Despite these obvious violations of Swedish law, Karlskrona Social Committee chairperson Ingrid Hermansson of the Center Party defended the municipality's decision. The rule of the thumb in such cases, the community acts "for the child's best" interest.
...


Agree? Disagree? Regardless, it's undeniably a political issue.

Continue defending him - it makes you just as reprehensible.

Defending a person's right to speak their views without being hunted down does not mean you agree with their views.

You'd have been a blast at the Salem witch trials.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 05:39:21 am by throwaway22 »

badKarl

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Only 3 posts and they all defend [Banned User #7]  :thinking:

Is this suspicious to anyone else?  :nesquik:

Selenium Webdriver

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I would remake this thread if accurate results are desired - this time keeping the votes anonymous - many people are not voting, or are not in favor of supporting the unban, in fears their personal views will be misrepresented. I believe, however, the trend will remain the same.

Alec M.

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I would remake this thread if accurate results are desired - this time keeping the votes anonymous - many people are not voting, or are not in favor of supporting the unban, in fears their personal views will be misrepresented. I believe, however, the trend will remain the same.

Good point. However, like you I believe the trend would be the very same. Not sure why people would be afraid to vote YES against a vehement toxicity to the community, but I suppose that's a personal thing for them.

The results speak for themselves. The poll is obvious now in what will happen.
"Train smarter, not harder" -Mike O'Hearn
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Eric

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Hey guys, Eric here, you may know me as foxdie on the rankings and theterriblechildren on Twitch. It’s unfortunate that my first post on the boards is on this particular topic but as a community member (an irrel member, but one nonetheless) I feel obligated to chime in on what I think should be done with this person (Bu7). I voted YES, and here is why:

I agree with mop that this issue is for the most part being framed incorrectly, especially from what I’ve seen from posts on Reddit. The issue is not so much his particular “views” (which I and most other people find to be disgusting and abhorrent) but more so his conduct as a community member in The-Elite. (I thought Harry’s post in the “Elite issues need to be fixed” thread was quite well-put). I’m sympathetic to the argument that banning a user based solely on their views is a slippery slope, and if that were the case, my vote would not have been as easy to cast. However, as other Eliters have noted, he’s been toxic from the beginning and has exhibited behavior that’s petty, childish, harassing, and vindictive towards both specific community members and The-Elite as a whole on Twitch, Reddit, and other platforms. He’s contributed little-to-nothing positive to our community. In fact, from what I’ve both heard and seen firsthand, all he has done is to bring drama, strife, and embarrassment to The-Elite. He’s a bad community member who is extremely toxic and I strongly feel that our community would be better off as a whole if that person was no longer associated with us.

Just my two cents. Cheers.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 06:33:02 pm by Eric »

Alka Maass

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I would remake this thread if accurate results are desired - this time keeping the votes anonymous - many people are not voting, or are not in favor of supporting the unban, in fears their personal views will be misrepresented. I believe, however, the trend will remain the same.

Good point. However, like you I believe the trend would be the very same. Not sure why people would be afraid to vote YES against a vehement toxicity to the community, but I suppose that's a personal thing for them.

The results speak for themselves. The poll is obvious now in what will happen.
I don't see the harm in making a second one that is anonymous.

SGT RAGEQUIT

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I agree with mop and terriblechildren.

From [Banned User #7]:

 I had nothing left but to take it to Reddit and hope, at least, that the speedrun community could see that what was taking place was not healthy at all for the community or the leaderboard. This led to a huge controversy, and a major example of the Streisand effect, and wound up having ramifications which I never intended.

Just wanted to make an account to make a comment. Not gonna vote because I am not a part of this community, so it would be unfair of me to vote.

Based on the posts I've seen and him stating the Streisand effect, I believe that the part of the quote I highlighted is complete bullshit. It doesn't take a genius to know that twitter and reddit are easy to send into a shit storm. Especially with the stuff from the screen caps, which really is just crap you'd see on /pol/. I really didn't see much from the screen caps other than "well I guess they frequent /pol/". Which for one person I am not surprised by at all. I do think the fact the reddit/twitter crowd are throwing around "nazi" labels like it's candy is disgusting and further shows why I try to stay away from most social media. I will not state my opinion on what was said in the screen caps because it is irrelevant to what I wanted to say and the screen caps don't show much context. Without context, it is easy to misinterpret something, assuming there is some probability of that happening in this case.

Based on what I read on this forum on how some members describe the banned user, it is not illogical to think he would purposely attempt to "weaponize" reddit and twitter in a way against this forum, and especially against the person he was targeting in this case. Which worked based on what I've seen on those two sites, whether intentional or not. Considering that he spammed goldeneye threads on reddit with the stuff, I think it was intentional. I feel bad for you guys that you are getting slammed for this, considering that most of you (I'm assuming) did not get involved with this mess.

I will admit that I am making assumptions on the banned user's character and mentality, and possibly some other assumptions about the situation. I fully admit that I don't know everything about this situation, so I may be wrong in some areas on my comments. I would appreciate it if any clarifications or corrections are pointed out to me if I made an incorrect statement. Just wanted to state how I thought since that specific part of the statement got my attention and struck me as a complete lie based on what I have observed thus far.

throwaway22

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I don't see the harm in making a second one that is anonymous.

The harm is that Alec McDonald knows that if he makes the poll anonymous, people might vote the way he doesn't want them to and he won't be able to smear them forever by mischaracterizing their views and accuse them of being "pedo defenders" or something. He's already making this exact argument in another thread. This is why it was deliberately made public.

...creating an alt, whoever you are, is also despicable. Own up to your identity and share your disgusting views as a respresentative of yourself.

Blue Khakis

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I am voting that [He Who Must Not Be Named] may be removed from the forum and discord but NOT the rankings leaderboard. This is a decision that affects us all. The rankings are supposed to be something which discriminates based on one metric only - times achieved on Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. If this objectivity is compromised, it sets an extraordinarily dangerous precedent from which I believe there may be no return.
 
The reason people tore Twin Galaxies apart was not simply because their rankings were false, but because they were false as a result of systemic corruption and were clearly skewed towards people who toed the party line, while dissent was actively discouraged and suppressed.

When the TG saga was in full swing, more and more people started appearing with stories of how their queries had been shut down and how questioning the decisions of the old guard had been met with intimidation and threats of removing scores and times. This CANNOT be allowed to happen in The Elite; setting the precdent that "Having X opinion is sufficient reason for having scores removed" allows enormous scope for those in power to intimidate and manipulate, and this is what WILL happen if this ban is implemented. Power, once subject to arbitrary whims rather than immutable standards ALWAYS expands, never recedes. The idea that people could start seeing “It has been decided that your behaviour is unacceptable and, if you do not desist immediately, all your times will be removed from the rankings” for anything other than compromising the integrity of the rankings itself is a recipe for disaster.

These standards exist specifically to prevent overreaching in times of turbulence which, time and again, have provided the "just one exception" which ALWAYS leads to abuses of power. You either believe in the same rights for everyone or no-one at all. I would therefore like to use this thread to publicly state that while I wish to remain an active member of this community and on good terms with its members I cannot now in good conscience create a rankings account as had been my intention.

This is kind of gutting, Goldeneye was my first game as a kid, and when my console arrived from Japan this week I was so psyched to finally see my name on the rankings. However, if I were to join the rankings now, I would do so knowing that my place there is guaranteed not by my own hard work, but is instead a privilege granted to me by a Ministry of Truth for the utterly irrelevant fact that I am lucky enough to have opinions which happen not to fall under their particular definition of wrongthink.

I will definitely still be playing the game once my cart arrives, I am still looking forward to interacting with the community and discussing my experiences playing the game again after so many years. I have no ill will towards any individuals, nor do I believe that those making this decision are doing so with bad intentions. I just believe this is a huge mistake that will spiral out of control, so I will not be joining the rankings board as I believe my active presence there would be my consent.

I do this NOT to defend [He Who Must Not Be Named] but to defend myself and the rights of everybody in this community and to attempt to prevent what WILL go down in history as the move that put The Elite on the same road as Twin Galaxies and will initiate a slow descent into nepotism and bureaucracy.

(I know no-one gives a fuck about some nobody, but I hope it will at least be an indication of how The Elite comes across to new players. I guarantee I am not the only one totally put off by this: only recently, a completely innocuous thread on the basics of Goldeneye speedrunning, which could and should have been a great introduction to a generation of new players, was completely derailed on r/speedrun because of this drama, and now people have begun defaming Elite members as Nazis at a time when speedrunning is increasing enormously in popularity year on year. I believe this could be a catastrophic and possibly fatal PR move at the worst possible time.)

Twin Galaxies self-destructed because favouritism and acquiescence to authority were valued OVER accuracy and objectivity. It took years to bring them to book only because the internet wasn't around. I guarantee the demise of The Elite will be much swifter, though no less dramatic. Once objectivity is subjugated to the whims of individuals, you have officially established a Ministry of Truth. Rankings should be objective documents of fact, not press releases of "Hardest Working Members of the Official Workers' Party”.

It is [He Who Must Not Be Named] today, it will be you tomorrow. If you think "well I don't have his batshit opinions, so I'll be safe". You are wrong. Outliers are always used to establish the precedent which leads to abuse of power; make no mistake, this is "The Elite Patriot Act", it serves to utterly demolish the value of The Elite Rankings as a historical record and extirpate the founding fundamental basis of the rankings: To be the most reliable possible ranking of gamers based on their in-game achievements and NOTHING ELSE. This is as close to a constitutional right as we have in speedrunning, and once we are stripped of it, just as Twin Galaxies found out, the only way is down.

The community (forums, discord etc.) are a completely separate matter. These are not only much more complicated platforms but the behaviour of members is completely relevant to their ability to function, so in these cases arbitration and moderation can be carried out according to site rules, and if the mods decide [He Who Must Not Be Named] has broken these rules then he should absolutely serve a ban.

But the rankings really are the closest thing to sacred artifacts or a founding document that we have. Throughout its history, no matter what has occurred in The Elite on a personal level, the rankings have remained respected by all as objective, austere and utterly indifferent to any metric other than ranking players on the basis of the times they have achieved. We fuck around with that at our grave peril. What has been passed down to the present generation is not simply a set of names and numbers, but, even more crucially, the absolutely non-negotiable principle that we must value the integrity and accuracy of the rankings as the highest possible virtue.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 04:43:14 pm by Blue Khakis »

RetroRockets

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But the rankings really are the closest thing to sacred artifacts or a founding document that we have. Throughout its history, no matter what has occurred in The Elite on a personal level, the rankings have remained respected by all as objective, austere and utterly indifferent to any metric other than ranking players on the basis of the times they have achieved. We fuck around with that at our grave peril. What has been passed down to the present generation is not simply a set of names and numbers, but, even more crucially, the absolutely non-negotiable principle that we must value the integrity and accuracy of the rankings as the highest possible virtue.

Speaking as another nobody, I have to disagree.  The "integrity and accuracy of the rankings" is not "the highest possible virtue".  Being a good person and contributing positively to a community are.  There is no self-important "sacred artifact" in "grave peril."  In fact, almost everything in life is literally more important than our best times from a 21 year old video game.  There have to be consequences for people whose presence reflects badly on the community as a whole.

Guado

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Had some time to read through what's actually going on...
It'd be a shame to remove someone from the rankings for behavior in social outlets, especially when this someone can get Archives 15 and other notable records. I believe we all have a social responsibility when we post here, on discord, on the rankings, and in the high-skill gaming community  as a whole. Follow the conduct policies or go elsewhere. This may be a community, but it's still the internet, and the people up above make the decisions because they carry the community (and/or pay the bills). I don't like having a council. Mistakes are made with visibility. Opinions are stepped on, etc , but I think it'd be a bigger mistake to remove the council than to at least ban this guy from discussions. Rankings I'm still...it's not my call but I'd keep with the freeze and see if this guy gets better over time.

Switching vote from defend blindly to .... No vote.

Edit 2: even more caught up now and... This fucking blows. Ban the guy, outright. What a mess.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 06:05:48 pm by Guado »
90+ hrs into XC2 NG+, going for 100%. Be back when I get bored.

spec BFR player

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I commented this on my vote, but my stance on this is:

Allowing his username on the rankings on a proof video only basis, with an account that will be administrated by the staff, with the sole goal of keeping his record times.
I think that accomplishes the intention of disassociating him with the community, but still maintaining the leaderboards records.
Speedrun Times
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AForgottenEvent

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I was about to make a detailed post, but Spec pretty much nailed my stance exactly. If his elite page can't be traced back to his questionable reddit history, then I think his times could be accepted. Note:  I'm a complete irrel and my opinion doesn't really matter much, but w/e.

404

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Serious question: was it or was it not [Banned User #7] who got convicted for injuring the toddler?

Yesterday I saw some of his posts and beliefs on Reddit and I gotta say it's disgusting (and I am not easily disgusted). I understand anybody who does not want him around and I feel the same way. However he seems to be possibly capable of an untied WR, in which case it would be bitter to completely deny it. Thus, I support what Spec said. But it would also be bitter to showcase this person in any way. Hm, it's a tough one!

Blazephlozard

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Serious question: was it or was it not [Banned User #7] who got convicted for injuring the toddler?
I looked into it and found this: https://appgateway.drc.ohio.gov/OffenderSearch/Search/Details/A654762
So, unless he was somehow posting from jail from 2014 to December 2017, no, he is not. I'd hope no one is so vehemently against him because they thought that was true. As far as I know [Banned User #7] has committed no IRL crimes, he just has shitty opinions. The same could be said for Goose and Grav at this point...

I'm not a member of this community, but I have immense respect for the dedication, skill, and sheer length of time that WR holders put in to each and every level they run. These are true accomplishments, and The Elite Rankings' place in keeping track of those accomplishments over the past 2 decades is completely unmatched. But right now, those 2 decades of insane record-keeping are at risk. The concept of censoring a speedrun leaderboard is extremely ridiculous, plain and simple. It is rewriting history, ignoring facts. And it's an extremely dangerous slippery slope if you start doing it. Can you say that only 2 people have gotten Archives 15? Is the Runway 00A record 32 seconds? No and no. And nothing can change that. Even if a WR holder committed murder, their times still exist, with no suspicion of being cheated, and it is therefore The Elite Rankings' duty to keep track of it if it has been submitted to them.

Right now, it's clear that many people against [Banned User #7] view The Elite Rankings as being the same thing as The Elite Community. But community participation is not at all a requirement to be on the rankings. The Elite website itself has the two separated; the Community tab, after all the Rankings-related tabs.

Also, TroubleClef's insistence that supporting the record-keeping of CV's times, and as such supporting the integrity and accuracy of The Elite Rankings, means that you approve of [Banned User #7] in any way, is extremely disgusting, and especially worrisome coming from someone whose position of power on this site includes trying to make the Goldeneye rankings as accurate as possible.

The idea of having his proof videos completely separated from the username on an Elite-run account sounds like a very good compromise, and this could be a solid policy for any future case that The Elite wants to disassociate from a toxic individual with harmful views but important accomplishments :thinking:

Luke

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I think it would be wise to erase RWhiteGoose from the elite forums / other message boards or other elite-related social media if he is not already.

Ryan White on the ranks though... probably not, in order to preserve the history.. which i think a majority of players / spectators would rather have remain.

A case could be made for Grav too i guess.



Also want to say this saddens me greatly. As if it wasn't bad enough having [Banned User #7] spread his disease throughout the place, to have someone you until pretty recently saw as a mate turn out to be a true lowlife loser takes some time adjusting to. it's not in your own words "turncoating", it is seeing who you really are, which is despicable. 


« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 09:02:17 am by Elite Top 5s »
LAS

#TeamLevelRotation

Alka Maass

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Ohmss, that was exposed as false ages ago, the mugshot was confirmed to be a completely different person
I think it would be wise to erase RWhiteGoose from the elite forums / other message boards or other elite-related social media if he is not already.

Ryan White on the ranks though... probably not, in order to preserve the history.. which i think a majority of players / spectators would rather have remain.

A case could be made for Grav too i guess.
like it or not, bu7 is still part of history, it might be reasonable to give them the initials treatment as well, so basically changing their names on the ranks to RW and RG

Eric

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Could not disagree more Alka.

The way I see it is participating in the rankings is not a right granted by the fact one speedruns Goldeneye or Perfect Dark, but a privilege - One that can and should be forfeited if you fail to follow the community code of conduct or act in such a toxic manner that a majority of the community wishes to no longer associate with you. I am sympathetic to the idea that deleting someone from the rankings based on their behavior rather than something directly tied to the game is tricky, but I would argue that this is an extreme case where (BU7)’s behavior, (including, but not limited to: targeted harassment of specific Eliters on Twitch, Reddit, Discord etc, vitriol campaign toward The-Elite as a whole, use of alts to evade ban both on the boards and on twitch - the latter of which he then used to maliciously troll & harass community members) merits loss of the privilege of both being a member of the community in general and the rankings also.

He (BU7) has demonstrated himself to be, at his most benign, an extreme pest and a nuisance, and at the other end, someone who maliciously trolls, bullies and harasses community members. There’s a good reason most people who spend a few seconds interacting with him quickly want nothing to do with him. It appears to me that he has no desire to contribute positively to the-Elite, and, on numerous occasions has failed what should be the easiest task on the planet - act like a decent fucking human being (although, it is the Internet, so, maybe expecting this is naive on my part). He says, in the post quoted by Harry, that if he were to be given a second chance, he would change, and would act decent and contribute positively. Given the pattern of behavior since he’s joined, through the ban, and after, I honestly don’t believe he will change.
 
It’s my opinion that it would be a mistake to reward his behavior by granting him access to the community and rankings. It sets a horrible precedent. At the bare minimum, this person should not be allowed to participate in the community (forum, discord, etc) ever again. It isn’t my preferred COA but a compromise I could live with would be his times being kept on the rankings under the following circumstances: he would not receive recognition by name or initials (maybe a blanked out space the same color as the background) and his account frozen to prevent him continuing to submit times our site. This would preserve “history” which a lot of people seem to care about but would disassociate us from him. That all being said, my preference remains for him to be removed entirely. He’s a scourge on The-Elite that needs to be remedied and in my opinion the only way is to no longer be associated with this person in any way. I’m eager to put this whole affair behind us and focus on rebuilding the community after a rough last couple of days.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 12:30:40 pm by Eric »

Alka Maass

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Could not disagree more Alka.

The way I see it is participating in the rankings is not a right granted by the fact one speedruns Goldeneye or Perfect Dark, but a privilege - One that can and should be forfeited if you fail to follow the community code of conduct or act in such a toxic manner that a majority of the community wishes to no longer associate with you.

If you follow this logic, then Goose and Grav have lost that privilege, as I have seen plenty of people who want to disassociate with Goose and Grav. For example Spagooda has stated "They are banned from the Discord channel (see OP) and, as far as I'm concerned, not welcome to return.".

No matter how terrible a person is, if they have completely legitimate runs in which there is no reason to doubt their legitimacy, then they should be on the rankings in some form, else the rankings are not accurate in displaying who has what world records. Even huge sports organizations like the NFL do not remove players from their website if they are convicted of murder, the most extreme example of this is Robert Rozier, who killed 7 people and is currently in prison serving 25 years to life, yet is still listed on the NFL website. http://www.nfl.com/player/bobrozier/2524640/profile





Jimbo

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Henning had a lot of 100% true legitimate runs, but his entire profile is completely erased currently and from history.

What's worse? Lying about half of your times and lying to all your friends, or the absolute circus gooses brought upon us?

Alka Maass

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What's worse? Lying about half of your times and lying to all your friends, or the absolute circus gooses brought upon us?
goose has probably brought more hate to the-elite than the henning stuff did
Henning had a lot of 100% true legitimate runs, but his entire profile is completely erased currently and from history.
Henning did definitely have some legitimate runs, but you can't really prove his runs with normal proof standards, I would only trust a Henning run if it was somehow documented and proven that his runs was 100% legit. Cheating automatically ruins the trust for all of a player's times at that point. However there is no reason to believe CV has illegitimate runs, so they should be on the rankings in some form.

mop890

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I'd like to make it clear with what Eric is saying, I'm sure most people think the dude is a piece of shit, but it's how he's fucked with other people that crosses the line. I don't care what that weirdo has going on in his brain as long as he isn't fucking with other people. I could take or leave him being on the rankings itself, but as far as being in the community? That weirdo has lost any right to associate with people. He needs 50 alts to interact with human beings, what does that tell you? People have been banned from communities for far fucking less, and while I don't personally like the idea of banning anybody, this is the one person I'm okay with getting the boot. He has demonstrated time and time again that he is incapable of interacting with people like a normal human being, and in my opinion, has lost any kind of privileges here. Keep in mind this has nothing to do with his politics or any of his weird fucking fantasies, it's strictly to do with his harassment of other people in the community.

Quirky

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What honestly kills his chance for me, was he was given another chance, 6 months to get his act together. Instead he throws a big a tantrum and did as much as he could to tarnish not just one person but the elite in general. And when I called him out on the stuff he has said and proceeds to name call me as his defense, yeah certainly hurting your case more and making me more adamant in voting yes here.

Rigger in Chief

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Henning had a lot of 100% true legitimate runs, but his entire profile is completely erased currently and from history.

What's worse? Lying about half of your times and lying to all your friends, or the absolute circus gooses brought upon us?

The major difference being one person was one of the most prominent and outspoken members of the community with the largest following. What Goose did and said was worse than what Henning did from an image perspective.
Rigging Contests One Round at a Time

Blue Khakis

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I'd like to make it clear with what Eric is saying, I'm sure most people think the dude is a piece of shit, but it's how he's fucked with other people that crosses the line. I don't care what that weirdo has going on in his brain as long as he isn't fucking with other people. I could take or leave him being on the rankings itself, but as far as being in the community? That weirdo has lost any right to associate with people. He needs 50 alts to interact with human beings, what does that tell you? People have been banned from communities for far fucking less, and while I don't personally like the idea of banning anybody, this is the one person I'm okay with getting the boot. He has demonstrated time and time again that he is incapable of interacting with people like a normal human being, and in my opinion, has lost any kind of privileges here. Keep in mind this has nothing to do with his politics or any of his weird fucking fantasies, it's strictly to do with his harassment of other people in the community.
Who is this in reference to? Because honestly everything here could apply to both the people in question.

mop890

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[Banned User #7]. I wasn't aware that there were other people that harassed individual people to the level that he has, my bad.

Alec M.

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Due to the overwhelming and obvious results, voting has been closed.

The results will be enacted in 24 hours. Further comments can be posted here, and the thread will be locked in 24 hours as well.
"Train smarter, not harder" -Mike O'Hearn
GoldenEye Proof Moderator as of February 2015

Alka Maass

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should be redone with a private poll

mw

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PD Proof Moderator

Alka Maass

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I've heard people say they are worried about changing their mind or voting no somehow (I actually think this is pretty stupid). It definitely affects the results though so if you want the poll to actually be accurate, it should be private.

Alec M.

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The poll was given for people to decide what they wanted. I only received ONE private message abiut a changed mind; not 30. The results speak for themselves.
"Train smarter, not harder" -Mike O'Hearn
GoldenEye Proof Moderator as of February 2015

spec BFR player

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Henning had a lot of 100% true legitimate runs, but his entire profile is completely erased currently and from history.

What's worse? Lying about half of your times and lying to all your friends, or the absolute circus gooses brought upon us?
Losing integrity and trust when it comes to run legitimacy is different than the runner having weird moral stances.

I thought this thread was about bee you seven? Why are goose and grav being even brought up here?
Speedrun Times
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mop890

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If it was private, it'd give [Banned User #7] even more of a reason to spam it with bullshit votes haha. In any case, good riddance.

Selenium Webdriver

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It can be set to 'admins can view votes only'.

GoodleShoes

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(Irrel opinion/player)
Hi, I'd just like to say that depending on what he is being banned for makes a difference to me. If bu7 is being banned for the fact that he was harassing and being rude to the admins/general community and that's all, I don't really see an issue with that. If he's being banned for holding a political opinion that others find repulsive however I will say this: Holding an opinion that a certain activity should be considered legal from an ethical standpoint does not equate to that person's participation in said activity. It has been stated by that user that this view was held as an open opinion from a libertarian perspective that all material, as in objects that can be owned and not living beings, should be legal to possess regardless of what it's associated with. If he was banned for that then I personally don't agree with the ban. He wasn't advocating for people using it, using it himself, etc. However it's up to the elite if this is ban worthy and their decision to make. I'd urge the elite counsel to at least express which of these two things is really the reason to ban bu7 and to make sure that precedent is clearly stated to prevent this sort of controversy from happening in the future. That way, there would be no need to for the elite to have to explain themselves since it's clearly stated in the rules in some way. To be clear, if it really was just the political opinion then it must be made clear which opinions cannot be held or this will continue to happen. Otherwise just say that it's because he was rude and you all don't like him. That's a good enough reason since you all own and maintain this framework for GE. (As a note, if it's left at: He did both of these things and both of these things are not allowed. Then please just be clear about what cannot be done instead of an ambiguous view like: "Don't be a shitter and you'll be fine." Obviously that's not enough guidance and is why this sort of thing happened in the first place.) Again, it's not an outcry or demand for justice, just an opinion on the matter.

mop890

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I agree Goodle. I think that [Banned User #7]'s views are abhorrent from what I've heard and seen, but I would never want somebody banned simply for their opinions, regardless of how bad I find them to be. For me, it's all about how he's fucked with people relentlessly (including me), and doesn't give a shit about the community in any sense of the word. He has definitely overstayed his welcome, and that would be apparent if you have ever had any interaction with him long enough to see through the veil. He puts up a damn good facade at first, I'll give him that. He's just godawful at covering his tracks.

Shadow

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For an "official community poll" it's disappointing that there is no background as to what the poll is about, and it's closed before I've even seen it. Some people don't live on the forums.

Karl's post is striking to me. If I knew more about the situation, I'd likely agree with him. I can't see the results but it's disappointing (if my suspicion is correct) that votes from a lot of newbies just interested in this issue were counted, at least when the results were in the original poster's favor.

Guys, regardless whether this was the right decision or not, this isn't the way to make good decisions.

Shadow

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Also striking about Karl's post is the awareness he shows for his vote affecting people's opinion of him. If Karl was aware about that, then you can bet your britches other people were concerned about it being a public poll.