Author Topic: Pd players Active?  (Read 2241 times)

Carathorn

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Pd players Active?
« on: December 15, 2006, 09:27:00 pm »

I was wondering...about how many players are actually still active? Not only "forum" active, but "game" active.

It looks like there are only a handfull of players left who really play this game these days.

Could it be that most of the WR's are beginning to get so hard to achieve, that a lot of players consider this game as finshed?

I'm courious.

tell me  i'm wrong, please ! :rolleyes

RWG

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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2006, 09:54:00 pm »
The WRs are so easy in PD that everyone feels they accomplish nothing in getting these WRs, so we go play GE instead where it actually means something to get a WR. :p

ok I lied.  I don't know the actual reason.
"I want to be defined by the things that I love. Not the things I'm afraid of, or the things that haunt me in the middle of the night.  I just think that, you are what you love."  Taylor Swift, Daylight.

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RK

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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2006, 11:43:00 pm »
Well, I think PD is going through a not as popular stage. GE is just way more active for now.

Djie

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« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2006, 01:17:00 am »
I'm "active".

RK

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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2006, 01:24:00 am »
shade ftw :b

Matt-Cook1

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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2006, 03:15:00 am »
Karl, Greg and I may play some within a few months, but it is doubtful.

Cervone

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« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2006, 04:33:00 am »
Well since about mid-2003 (around the time I started following the elite) GE has always seemed more active than PD, especially in the area of new members. And I don't just mean noobs--but new people who can actually play well and put time into the game. GE has six people in the top 10 who joined in mid 2003 or later (me, Ilari, Alex, Henrik, White, and Mouser, whereas PD only has about six "new" players in the entire top 50 (I'm not sure on this, but I counted Taka, PA, Illu (who shouldn't even count on this list), Dark Otto, Red Bull, and Davidk5).

I really just think it's a tribute to GE's better long-lasting appeal and staying power. The PD Elite might have been more active and popular than the GE elite back in 2000-2002, but that was when people still played N64s, and PD was the newer, more advanced game. But now that the N64 is obselete, only its best games continue to be played by devoted fans. To me, the fact that GE today is pretty much as active as it's ever been just affirms its lasting power as a great game--more so than PD.

Also, just look in that topic in the other forum about GE among friends. Everybody knows GE, thought it was a great game, and for that reason playing it intensely seems pretty cool. But from my personal experience at least, most people my age don't even really remember PD. I show them PD videos and they're like "wait, you're a girl in this game... who's the alien..." stuff like that. Just my 2 cents.

OO

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« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2006, 05:34:00 am »
It's not like me and Red Bull are any "new". I joined September 2000 and been following the PDE since August that year. It's just that I have just recently become a bit decent on the game :p  Nah, I didn't take speedrunning of the game as serious as I do today though.

Well, the WR's are bit hard too. The only WR's I've the chance at getting right (due to suckiness of my part and @#%$ PAL) now are: Chicago A/SA/PA, Defection A and Duel PA! GoldenEye has unfortunately always been the more popular among gamers than PD. I'm probably one of the few people who actually like PD a lot better than it!

I'm playing PD still, it's just that Zelda TP is keeping me very busy on my Wii at the moment. Soon, as I complete it I'll return here and PR some! Don't expect me to quit/retire anytime soon either. I'm gonna reach a Top 15 position before I even consider it :)

And I bet Shade won't quit playing either :lol  He just has to get that damn AF1 SA 1:20 first. Good luck with that, you would deserve it more than anyone!

Djie

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« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2006, 11:42:00 am »
*kicks the pres around*

Henning Blom

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« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2006, 05:06:00 pm »
Im somewhat active as a PD player;)

DavidK5

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« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2006, 06:58:00 pm »
I'm on winter break now, so I may start playing again, and by that I mean continue to get nothing accomplished on War.
poor performance isn't a glitch - Wouter Jansen

Nindif

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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2006, 09:18:00 pm »
i'm not much good at speedrunning the game (just look at my times), but it is still my most played game, even TP hasn't taken over my PD time yet.

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octoinky

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« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2006, 08:19:00 pm »
speedrunning doesn't really correlate to the "better game"

GE missions are far better and long-lasting than PD missions are, but you cannot compete with PD's multiplayer.  It is simply what you prefer a game to be; technically speaking PD is a "better game" but to a speedrunner, GE is better, and many more casuals played GE simply because of its popularity on release to the average gamer as the only real FPS of its time.  Of course people will remember it more.

Wouter Jansen

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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2006, 12:19:00 pm »
then obviously it's the better game if that's what the game was supposed to do: draw a big audience

there's not much money to be made out of a game which goal is to have only 1 interested enough person that will buy it.
sexy, this

octoinky

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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2006, 07:03:00 pm »
mmm.. many great games were underproduced, I dont think that argument works.  Certainly GE has stood the test of time better than PD because of its name popularity and solo missions, but PD *does* have better, more skillful, multiplayer.  Thats all I was saying

Lark

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« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2006, 07:48:00 pm »
It is true PD was programed and planned to be the better game, but in reality it really isn't. It's a great game and I still love to play it.
But it didn't give you that nostalgia feeling that GE gave you. Although some consider it inferior I think it has more replay value.

For those people who want to pull out facts, GE was the highest selling game in the United States.
Embrace the grind.

Wouter Jansen

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« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2006, 09:04:00 pm »
I think what makes GE so strong is just the simplicity, you don't have to wonder what to do, you just know what to do and it's like YOU are inside of it as if it's real. and GE just has much more futuristic weapons, since the reload time is great on each weapon (unless any would normally be faster than 1 second, I wouldn't know :p ). it takes development and time to get faster and faster, so it must be from a more advanced aera of time!
sexy, this

Nindif

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« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2006, 09:04:00 pm »
Well i'm actually the opposite, even though i owned both from their launch, i find PD gives a far more nostalgic feeling, perhaps because of its superior multiplayer i used to play with friends for hours.

Goldeneye is still amazing and great and i still play it, and when i talk to friends about N64 they talk about Goldeneye, however, eventually the conversation always leads to PD.

Even though GE was huge, the casual gamers i know, some of whom don't play games anymore, played PD in the day and remeber it equally as much, if not more than GE.

But for me, PD just took it to that next level.

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EDIT: Isn't it funny how this topic has returned to a GE Vs PD argument again! So i guess i'll say this:

If my friends came over and wanted to play 64, we'd play Perfect Dark, if only 1 person came over, we'd play PD, if 4 people came over, we'd play PD, if they wanted to play 64 single player, they'd all choose PD, even though GE is another option, everyone i know would choose PD, if they played GE, it would be for 5 mintues until they were either bored of it or had gotten their ultra-nostalgic fix, then return to PD.

octoinky

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« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2006, 05:15:00 am »
you can't judge a game's quality based on its 'nostalgic feel' or even its sale totals.  I'm sure both games could have sold more if they produced more, as well.  GE certainly has more nostalgic feel to most, and the simplicity of the game is what I love about it.  The versatility of PD is what I love about the multiplayer

bcks

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« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2006, 08:20:00 am »
I think pd got produced enough, since you can still find a copy of it new and sealed on ebay for like 2 bucks, usally.
Ge on the other hand, prolly goes for more then $30 and is quite rare for me to see a new sealed copy of that. Used is alot less obvisley.

OO

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« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2006, 08:36:00 am »
Of course GE is more sold and stuff. It was the first of it's kind (multiplayer wise). It's still the best 007 game and James Bond is very popular so that alone made it sell more than PD. Then at the time when PD was released, the N64 had already seen it's best days. The GameCube and PS2 were just around the corner.

I don't care @#%$ what sold more anyway. The feel of the game matters the most to me. Both GE and PD are true classics :)

On a sidenote, it might take a bit longer than expected before I start to play PD again. Busy during Xmas! :p

Wabs

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« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2006, 08:42:00 am »
Yeah Brandon's right, PD was overproduced (in US at least), I think they were "surprised" by GE's success and thought even more games of PD would be sold. But, as Otto said, the N64 was already dead or so and it didn't sell as much as they thought, that's why there are so many PD games brand new on ebay.

Nindif

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« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2006, 12:01:00 am »
Just quietly though.... i reckon PD looks better than a lot of PS2 games even to this day (especially at launch), so i don't think it was because it lookes far 'inferior', it was just the the PS2 was the 'must have' thing, moreso than a great game.

Don't get a much anticipated and destined to be classic game, get a hyped, in-vogue, assumed 'cool' console.

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vitor

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« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2006, 12:25:00 am »
I think PD is slight better than GE (or at least motivated me more) for two reasons:

1. it has an accurate timer. On GE, when you aren't that good, you don't know when you're on a good run or not. That comes with a LOT of experience. On PD you don't have that issue.

2. PD is free of boosts to gain time. It may have a lot of random things (Elvis, Jon, Skedar doors, etc), but hoping for boosts is, IMO, gay. You have that on basically every GE level. 4 boosts will literally save one second, while a row of bad boosts can ruin your WR. That's VERY random.

Even so, GE is such a great game, I'd say I like it much as I like PD. I just feel more confortable playing the last one.

Ah, also there are some game details that are cool in PD speed-running. The fact that you can kill any guard, in any difficulty, with one headshot is very nice, and can save your record if you got the skills. Disarming guards is a great feature aswell. That one saved my SOS PA 2:11, when I went down the last lift with almost no health and no ammo at all, and had to disarm a guard on the way, thus finishing the level with full red health.

Hm, whatever. :p

octoinky

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« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2006, 02:44:00 am »
seeing as this topic is already off topic, was there EVER another good 007 game?!  See what ruins them for me is all these guns and crazy gadgets.  Its too complicated!  Thats really the problem with ALL FPS shooters these days.  GE is *still* the best solo FPS on the market IMO because it is so simple but still so fun and successful.  00A is the perfect difficulty for a skilled player to casual play through, not speedrun, which is what replay is all about for most gamers.

Nindif

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« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2006, 04:46:00 am »
I wouldn't say it's completely off-topic just yet - 'Pd players Active?' - it's kind of developed into a discussion on WHY less people are 'active' in PD.

But here's something off-topic: isn't it strange how Rare decided to make a videogame version of Goldeneye. Of all the films, they chose this one, i wonder if the game came first (ie: controls, perspective, innovations) or if they said; this film isn't highly regarded so lets make a highly regarded game of it.

i mean, they could have made a completely original game from the same engine and still get the basic 'feel' of what Goldeneye has. I just think it's strange that they chose Goldeneye thats all.

back to you 'octoinky ': i think being the first major leap in 3D FPS and in particular Console FPS, Goldeneye will always remain one of the most highly regarded FPS's.
1: because it was the first.
2: because it has huge nostalgia
3: because all games since have done nothing but essentially build from Goldeneye.

*am i the only one who hates the way Halo is absolutely nothing more than a pretty Goldeneye in space?

Take the new 007 film for example, rather than continuing with traditional 'bond-film' conventions, they removed the highly technical aspects of the film (most of the gadgets and stuff) and focussed on the simpler, more important things - like characters, and story. Goldeneye N64 in some ways is similar, it was simple and focussed on what was important to a game (gameplay, graphics, controls), since then they have become increasingly complex, which detracts from these aspects. Maybe it's time for a 'Casino Royal' FPS to bring back the core elements?

but i'm ranting here...


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Carathorn

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« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2006, 09:54:00 pm »
I haven't checked the boards for about 5 days right now, but now I've checked it there is proof of one thing: at least the boards are still active! Which is a good thing I guess.

I also like the discussion about GE and PD, but that is such a personal and subjective issue that this will be leading into an endless corversation. Let us conclude that GE and PD are just two great games (still!) , every game has its own charm and therefore people will usually make their choice between specializing in PD r GE. The fact that I choose for playing PD is irrelevant on its own. It's just the reason why I started this topic: I never knew GE was that active still.

Hopefully, the future will change it a bit. It is less challenging for me to get new records when I'm ranked 93rd and everybody around that ranking already stopped playin way back. therefore, I also believe that activity of one of the games is a chain-reaction to what other people do. I was thinking about this example:

imaginary situation: Paragon, Marshmallow, Bossman and Mystery Man start to play again. They improve WR's, they get attention. Lots of people will think: "hey, lets go for it again!" It will surely increase the activity of many old and new players.

I just thought of that to make this statement: The activity of GE or PD is for the most dependable on how many good/legendary players are active. They make lower ranked people believe they can at least try it too. They make higher ranked people more active because they can "feel" the improvement out of video's. When the excitement, the admiration and the wonders are still among the players, people will remain active. Just look how many people already start posting "good to see you posting" when Paragon opens a new thread about a combat simulator setting. It looks like people are screaming for some serious activity.

The behaviour of copying should not be underestimated. for the game to get less populair and visa versa. I believe nostalgic feelings makes you play an old game for a week. On this level of speenrunning, it has not very much to do with it. Ofcourse GE is more nostalgic than PD, because it is the pre-PD game, or at least meant to be that by the creators. But if I would give speedrunning a try because of nostalgica, it would last for max. one day. Just to get that good feeling again. So that's why I believe the earlier mentioned statement is more applicable to the inactivity of PD-players at the moment.

There should be a solution to the demotivating rankings right now. I think of the top 100, max. 10 players are still really active these days. That's so frustrating. Me and other players are now only climbing in ranking, working our way up against ranked persons who actually don't do anything about it. Quite boring to be honest. :o  

Solution 1. We strive to get that imaginary situation back. Since there is a chance of 0.0058 % that this will actually happen, I guess you should skip this solution and go on with the second one, which is an obviously better one too: :hat  

Solution 2. A new ranking site will be launched, beside the original ranking page. "The Perfect Dark Active Rankings". A temporary ranking site with players only who have been active for the last 6 months or something. Sounds to me as a ranking page where actually things will happen. PAL & NTSC combined. People who update after longer than 6 months will atomatically be put into this ranking. For as long as this ranking page is needed, people will find more motivation to play more PD. It could be removed when it has done it's work. So it's a project: it has a beginning, a purpose and an ending.

What is you opinion guys? Could this be done? more important: will it work ?! I believe so. That's because I believe it will work for me at least. Nice frame of reference uh?

Thanx for reading, if you made to to all the way here! Your comments are very welcome!

Carathorn

Ngamer

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« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2006, 12:02:00 am »
Carathon, what you're talking about there is a rivalry.  A few years back, there were PD and GE rivalries running all over the place, and you're right in saying that they create very healthy competition, since all of the players are currently active and there's more incentive to keep improving along with them.  It's also nice in that you get to shoot for Rivalry Records, instead of trying to match near-impossible World Records.

Here is the PD updater:  thengamer.com/PD/23-Misc/...erV2.2.zip  Talk to someone on AIM so they can show you how it works.  Then you can make a topic here and have other active players join your rivalry.

As for why GE has been consistently more popular than PD for speedrunning the past three years, I think there are two reasons.  The first, which has been beaten to death, is nostalgia.  90% of outsiders looking in on the Elite are going to have fonder memories of Goldeneye, since it was quite possibly the first FPS they were ever hooked on.  They'll probably remember enough of the most famous levels to have some kind of concept of how impressive our WR videos are, and that might be enough to make them break out the ol' N64 and try it out for themselves.  So, it makes sense that GE has always been the game attracting the new members.

But the more important reason for the continual activity is, Goldeneye is so easy.  Even if they haven't touched the game in five years, no ex-GEer is going to have forgotten the WR strat on Runway A.  Or Depot, or Streets, or Dam or any of the other Point A to Point B levels.  And although it might take them some practice to understand this 'new' Trev shot, the minute they figure it out on Statue A they'll just as easily be PRing on SA and 00.  Same for Streets, the Surfaces, etc.

Now, this is by no means saying that it's easier to get a WR on Goldeneye, nor is it saying that it's easier to get a time that's worth points on GE.  What I mean is that, for many GE levels, a new and/or rusty player can watch a recent video, say "oh, I see what he's doing there," and then go about trying to master the strat.  He still has all kinds of things to worry about (strafe lines, shooting the cameras, getting boosts, whatever), but the important thing is that in his mind he "gets" the level.

So what I'm saying is that playing Goldeneye feels like riding a bike because it is like riding a bike: if you did it when you were young and enjoyed it, chances are you'll still be able to do it again without too much practice time today.  Perfect Dark is like riding a faster, more polished, many times more complex and difficult, better bike.  You can still do it and have a great time, but the learning curve involved in playing on a high, speedrun-type level is steep enough that the effort is too much for most people.
thengamer. com

Nindif

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« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2006, 02:05:00 am »
great analogy NGamer64 (it could have perhaps been a motorbike :p  ) But i think that sums up exactly the drawing power of these two games.

However, it was actually PD that bought me to the Elite.

and i'm slightly more inclined to agree with carathorns comments regarding nostalgia and it's impact on the 'activity' of these two games.

...but this is not an argument :b

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OO

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« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2006, 07:21:00 am »
Whoa! Amazing post Cara and Jon too ;)   I already run some rivalries. That idea is very great. I'm willing to do this rivalry, if I would start on it now it would be done before tomorrow. But as it's your idea perhaps you want to do it yourself, eh?

Players that should be added:

Carathorn
Creeping Death
DavidK5
Dark Maian
Dark Otto
Funky Buddha
Illu
(Lec (?) )
Perfect Ace
Red Bull
Shade
Taka
Zergling97

Edit: Talk to me on AIM for help!

Wouter Jansen

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« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2006, 09:18:00 am »
Taka plays?
sexy, this

OO

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« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2006, 11:02:00 am »
Well, not exactly but he has played during the last half year :p

Henning Blom

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« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2006, 12:08:00 pm »
I like that idea...but maybe I should apdate my other times then:o

Carathorn

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« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2006, 11:22:00 am »
Otto, set up that ranking! 8)

I would like you to run it, since you already have experience with it.

idea: we can include all the top 100 players but then marked grey, so you instantly see them marked as inactive.

Greets

Car

OO

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« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2006, 11:28:00 am »
Yeah but then the inactive players would pwn all the records. That would make it look a bit weird and too alike the normal world rankings, don't you think!?

You got it, I can start making this now, sure!

RK

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« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2006, 04:30:00 pm »
Yesterday I played some PD, and I'm planning on playing more today. So feel free to put me on that rivalry! :D    

Taka would pwn if he were to be on this rivalry, maybe and some of the REALLY REALLY good players (I'm talking like people in the top 20?) should not be on the rivalry. Well, it's up to you guys, your call.



EDIT:

Quote
Quote:
great analogy NGamer64

Nindif it's Ngamer, not NGamer. Thank you. :p

Henning Blom

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« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2006, 04:53:00 pm »
Its kinda pointless to have all 100 top playes on that rivalry...I mean...it would almost look like the dp ranks and the inactive top 20 players would still have all the rr's etc:rolleyes  but like Zergling said...its your call.

Carathorn

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« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2006, 05:58:00 pm »

I guess you're right. Although it sounded to me as a good Idea, I think you all have a good point there.

Keep them out :P

We just have to make sure we collect enough players to make it a exciting and challanging ranking page! And let's not call it the Rivalry, but The Active Rankings :D

Oh and Zergling; nice to have you in.

Otto and others: shall we say: longer than 6 months of inactivity and you're out?
That also means than everybody who improves times again is atomatically included in this ranking.

I think it'll be a nice temporary solution to PD inactivity! Hopefully the site will be online soon enough!

Maybe we could get our own "forum" inside the Elite Boards. Just like some other Rankings.

Could be possible?

Carathorn

OO

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« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2006, 06:05:00 pm »
Agreed on that 6 monts thing. However, it's true that players like Ace, FB and Taka will dominate. But the point for this is active players. If Top 20 players would be ruled out then me and Red Bull would soon be removed too. As I'm already 20th in time (with my full times). PD board is not active enough for a sub forum. Those others were created back in 00/01. PD was very active back then! :)  I will have this up by tomorrow night.

Henning Blom

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« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2006, 08:06:00 pm »
Awesome...this will not just give me more motivation to play..I think it will motivate others too wich is a good thing:)     The boards thing or whatever it is, is not really needed...someone could just create a new topic or whatever >D  

and yes...agrees with that six months thing

RK

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« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2006, 08:08:00 pm »
Yea, I think this PD forum is fine. I don't feel that sub-forum for PD is necessary.

Alright Otto! I'll be looking forward to it!

Djie

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« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2006, 08:46:00 pm »
I'm ranked what... 70ish? :D  Add me to the rivalry!

Carathorn

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« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2006, 09:29:00 pm »

Ok...leave  the extra forum thing...

I was trying to get this "project" done as good as possible thats why I try to think of as many things as possible.

I'd like to thank everybody already for beeing so positive about this idea. Let's ROCK

Otto - Thanx for your efforts putting up this site.

Hopefully, it isn't needed for too long. The longer the site lasts, the longer it proofs it is needed in order for people to stay motivated. But for now: I would very much like to see it happen.

See ya all in the "Active Rankings" :hat

Carathorn

p.s. Any other suggestion for possible extra "rules" concerning this new ranking site: post, post, post!

Carathorn

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« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2006, 09:31:00 pm »

Ow.. and I forgot: Otto, can you include the "original ranking position" of each player too next to his name or something like it? So people can still see where the mayor gaps are in total times/points.

Carathorn

RK

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« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2006, 10:11:00 pm »
Eh, I think Otto will just place up 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc.

And please, edit your post, thanks. ;)

Carathorn

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« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2006, 07:25:00 am »
I understand 1rst, 2nd and 3th etc.

But beside that ranking, Otto might as well show the "original ranking" of each person next to the Activity Ranking.

Like this:

Rank           plAYER              Original Ranking

1.                wf23ofif           3
2.                  f23r239          4
3.                  24351235       9
4.              2153213523        14

etc.

Wouter Jansen

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« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2006, 08:37:00 am »
how about it's pointless and a waste of time to do. just link to the normal ranks.
sexy, this

Henning Blom

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« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2006, 08:55:00 am »
thats not either really needed...just more work for Otto and the better the player is on the original ranks the better the player is on the "Active Rankings" but I see your point though.

Carathorn

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« Reply #48 on: December 29, 2006, 01:43:00 pm »

thanks wout! great message.


Wouter Jansen

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« Reply #49 on: December 29, 2006, 02:16:00 pm »
you must be a rich man having so many sarcasm dolls explode like that.
sexy, this