Author Topic: Wikipedia page (Read 3563 times)

mrsooreams · « **on:** April 02, 2006, 07:54:00 pm »

Hi guys, I'm an occasional poster to the GoldenEye boards but this is my first post here so sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong place.

The reason for this post is that I'm working on the Wikipedia entry for Perfect Dark, which you can see here. I'm hoping to get the article to "Featured Article" status. This essentially means that it is recognised as one of Wikipedia's best articles and might well appear as the main front page article in the future.

Before applying for Featured Article status, I thought it would be a good idea to get a thorough fact check on the article. This is where you come in! If you have a free moment, please have a look through the article and see what you think. You can let me know of any mistakes or, of course, edit the article yourself in any way you say fit.

Any other constructive (or insulting) criticism welcome. Thanks for your time,

Soo

.. · « **Reply #1 on:** April 03, 2006, 08:21:00 am »

Looks pretty good so far. Other things in order might be: a detailed weapon list (with GE/real life equivalents if possible), a detailed cheats list, maybe some explanation of control styles/game options/other stuff like that...

I've always wanted to write a wiki on t-e.n, but haven't gotten around to it, and then there are @#%$ people who don't think it deserves one because they strictly adhere to the wiki rules (which wiki doesn't strictly adhere to unless enough people bitch about it).

Wyst3r · « **Reply #2 on:** April 03, 2006, 11:14:00 am »

You say 4 levels can be unlocked by completing various difficulties, but if i'm not mistaken The Duel is unlocked by getting all bronze medals in the firing range.

vitor · « **Reply #3 on:** April 03, 2006, 11:43:00 am »

^ yes.

RK · « **Reply #4 on:** April 03, 2006, 07:52:00 pm »

It looks pretty good

mrsooreams · « **Reply #5 on:** April 04, 2006, 09:40:00 am »

Thanks for the feedback guys, very encouraging. There is a detailed weapon list in a separate article (List of weapons in Perfect Dark) which is linked to from the main article. It was felt to be too detailed to include in the main article. As for the list of cheats, that's not really encyclopaedia material, and it's available on ten million other sites anyway. The thing about Duel is indeed a mistake and I'll fix it.

As for a t-e.n wiki, yes, I think that would be awesome. Each level could have a page with strats for the various difficulties plus discussion of the numerous nuances and oddities of the game. Does anyone have the wherewithall to set it up?

I forgot to mention: one section that really needs expanding is the "Impact and Sales" part. If any of you have any old N64 magazines lying around, with reviews of Perfect Dark, I'd really appreciate it if you could let me know what score they gave it and (if possible) the date/issue number. If I can expand that section to something decent then we should be at Featured Article status in no time.

Thanks again,
Soo

.. · « **Reply #6 on:** April 04, 2006, 04:11:00 pm »

I didn't mean an FAQ on t-e.n's strategies on GE/PD really, just on the site/community in general. History, major events, publicity, stuff like that. If anything, it could be used as an overall FAQ/About page for the site (hosted here, if wiki rejects/baleets it), which we could all agree would come in handy for new users.

Oh, and my suggestions were just things that would make it possibly a featured article, not really things that you were missing. Featured articles usually have most/all of the info in the article themselves so that a billion different links aren't needed at the end. Also, nothing on the Defection glitch in the glitches section? Just about the biggest most insane glitch ever found... hehe.

mrsooreams · « **Reply #7 on:** April 04, 2006, 05:58:00 pm »

The MediaWiki software is free and open source so I don't think you'd need anyone's permission to set the thing up. I think once the wiki was established you could collect all sorts of interesting Elite-related information. It'd be good.

As for the Featured Articles containing everything, that's not really true. A lot of featured articles have summary sections with a link to a more detailed main article, and that's essentially what I've done with the list of weapons. To be honest I'm not sure if that information is really worth including at all, since it's of fairly minimal significance, but I'll leave that for other people to decide.

You're right about the Defection glitch though. I'll add that.

.. · « **Reply #8 on:** April 04, 2006, 06:37:00 pm »

I think I was just comparing the weapons part to GE's article where the weapon list is included. That's mostly because of the real life counterparts being a big topic of discussion by lots of n00bs, but oh well.

I intended to use MediaWiki for t-e.n's page, but I'd like to see if it can survive on the actual wiki site, once I/someone else bother to actually make it.

mrsooreams · « **Reply #9 on:** April 04, 2006, 07:16:00 pm »

The GE article is a bit rubbish. Maybe I'll try to improve that if reaction to the PD article is good. PD's article had so much cruft in it before I started editing it; it's fallen from 8700 words to about 2500. People tend to add stuff but very few editors remove stuff, so articles gradually inflate but their actual usefulness decreases.

As for maintaining a t-e.n page within Wikipedia (if that's what you meant), I doubt there's much chance of that being allowed to stay. The requirements for websites to get their own page are pretty stringent; you'd need to show that t-e.n has had major influence outside its own community, and has appeared in a major media outlet (e.g. a newspaper article about it). As far as I know, neither of these criteria are satisfied. But I'm not certain. I still think the idea of an Elite wiki in general is good.

SamSim · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2006, 09:06:00 am »

A wiki on our strats would be perfect, as nobody can be bothered to write all the possible strats out.

Ngamer · « **Reply #11 on:** April 12, 2006, 02:01:00 pm »

Alright, how about this idea...

speedrunwiki.com

A Wiki devoted to all things competitive gaming, from speed runs to high scores. It could be used equally by all members of our larger community- The Elite, Kart, scopinfo, N64HS, and the SDA. Users could all create profiles, so on the one hand you would see a large listing of just "gamers," but everyone would also get to place themselves into certain categories. That way in a click you'd see who was a member of the Elite, who was an SDA guy, who was more of a Karter, etc.

We'd be able to go as in-depth as we wanted on any subject related to competitive gaming, so detailed info on PD would be great, WR starts for every level would be fair game, and the like. We could also throw up Wikis on things more Elite-community related, like a History of the site, an article on our Contests, AFDs, etc all.

vitor · « **Reply #12 on:** April 12, 2006, 03:23:00 pm »

Nice idea

mrsooreams · « **Reply #13 on:** April 12, 2006, 06:25:00 pm »

Sounds like a good idea to me.

SamSim · « **Reply #14 on:** April 14, 2006, 06:11:00 am »

All right, we had a nice long talk about this in Chat the other day, and I think it's about time someone wrote up what we discussed.

Jon proposes a Wiki dedicated to everything that the Elite, scopinfo, the MK communities, SDA, N64HS, QDQ etc. etc. have been about since they began - taking games beyond the original game - getting higher scores and faster times. The Wiki would include, essentially, a page for every strategy, and more pages on historical moments and figures in the speed running* community. It would NOT include first-completion strategies. It would NOT be a complete cut-and-paste of GameFAQs. This will be a meta-guide for people who already know what they are doing, and want to do it better.

I remarked that this Wiki would not be an extension of the videogaming community per se. Wikis are all about the collaborative project at the centre of it all, not the people creating it. So, people would not be allowed to create pages about themselves. This would ensure that the real people listed in the Wiki would only be those with at least some historical significance.

Moderation is going to be a massive task because as ever there is huge potential for vandalism. I reckoned, and others agreed that we should probably disallow anonymous editing and make sign-ups mandatory, as well as a carefully-selected team of admins.

*We will NOT be exclusively dedicated to speed runs, as the Speed Demos Archive is. We WILL consider high-score runs and anything else which demonstrates amazing skill. We haven't figured out a rigorous definition of this or a proper name (although we have a few thousand suggestions). This is number one on the list of priorities.

This Wiki will explicitly NOT be a records listing site. It will only list world records if 1) they are relevant or significant and 2) a source can be cited - i.e., if you're going to say "the world record on Def A is 0:06" then you must put a link to the Elite PD records page. This is my understanding, anyway.

Jon remarked that this Wiki will also NOT be concerned with multiplayer stuff or competitive gaming such as Starcraft in S. Korea or Counterstrike and Quake tournaments. We are looking at *achievements* here. Kicking the stuffing out of the COMPUTER, not each other. Two people playing Combat Simulator against each other: no. Two people playing co-op Challenge 30: YES. Got it?

Ngamer · « **Reply #15 on:** April 14, 2006, 12:59:00 pm »

Having a very hard time with the name, so here are some ideas.

Do we accept high scores?
speedrunwiki.com
speedrun.org
speedrun.info

Are we general like GameFAQs?
wiki.vg

What does "elite" mean?
elitewiki.com
elitegaming.something
alphagaming.org
beyondgaming.org
optimalgaming.org
gamingtheory.org

mrsooreams · « **Reply #16 on:** April 14, 2006, 05:51:00 pm »

I think the name "Elite" has some kind of brand identity when it comes to speedruns, so I'd get that in there somewhere.

You also need to think about what sort of wiki software you're going to use. MediaWiki (the software behind Wikipedia) is easily the best and most powerful but I hear is rather difficult to set up. Other wikis are easier to configure but don't such an impressive feature set.

SamSim · « **Reply #17 on:** April 17, 2006, 08:13:00 am »

I think "Elite" should not be included as a term because it seems to exclude other communities and we want to be all-inclusive.

I think "Wiki" SHOULD be included because the URL needs to make it clear what we do.

My picks from that list are
wiki.vg
gamingwiki.org

However I would also suggest something like
stratswiki
wikistrats
etc.

mrsooreams · « **Reply #18 on:** April 17, 2006, 10:28:00 am »

I quite like wikiStrats, it sounds better than stratsWiki despite being slightly less accurate.

Back on Wikipedia, the Perfect Dark article is now featured. Is this worthy of a front-page mention on t-e.n?

Ngamer · « **Reply #19 on:** April 17, 2006, 12:30:00 pm »

I agree that 'Elite' sounds too inclusive and that it would be nice if wiki could be included in the URL. I'm going to maintain, however, that we're giving up too easily on a domain like speedrunwiki.com. It's the one name that, to me, is entirely self-evident as to our general purpose, after which it can be the main page's job to let everyone know that we also support games that favor top scores rather than strict time-keeping.

And I remain far from sold on any URL involving the word "strats." The strats are there, and are a major part of what we do of course, but it's going to look strange to have articles devoted to the Elite/its history/its key historical figures on a site that, according to the domain, exists solely for the sake of building strategies.

SamSim · « **Reply #20 on:** April 17, 2006, 06:33:00 pm »

The problem is that what we are doing is rather complicated. We are trying to compress a complex idea (It's videogaming, but only playing against the computer, not directly against other people, BUT still competing online (but not directly)) into a small domain name.

The whole thing about videogaming history is troublesome in this regard. While I definitely agree that it should be a part of the site, I don't think we're going to be able to easily encompass it right there in the domain name. Not without a crowbar. stratsandhistoryofstrats.com, anyone?

Also, what we are looking at here is a double-pronged attack. We are providing a centralised resource for

(1) people who are already members of the videogaming community
(2) people who aren't, but are interested in going beyond their usual limits.

But, it's the (2)s who are the untapped potential and who (I think) are likely to provide the lion's share of this site's potential popularity - mainly because they outnumber us (1)s. And, while the history business is likely to be of moderate interest to the (2)s, it's really for us (1)s that it's going to be in there. So you see, I don't think the whole history thing is as core a concept as the strategies themselves. The history is immensely important, but peripheral. Hence, stratswiki is an okay name.

Still pretty complicated.

It's about taking gaminging beyond its usual predefined limits, and the history of doing so.

It's beyond gaming? It's annihilating the computer. It's... the theory and practice of awesome. Gaming theory? I like "gamingtheory". It's like game theory, only for videogames, not board games and that. It kind of turns it into a science. Is that appropriate? Sciencey gamingy names? Gamertheory?

Ngamer · « **Reply #21 on:** April 17, 2006, 07:46:00 pm »

Oh, gamingtheory.com! I love it. Added to the official options.

Nick-Rollins · « **Reply #22 on:** April 18, 2006, 11:33:00 am »

Far be it from a non-member like me to tell the Elite what to do,

but...

1. There's already a Gamingwiki.com, so "Gamingwiki.org" is too similar. There are also lots of other videogaming wikis, like gamerwiki.com and Encyclopaedia Gamia. I don't see the point of them, to be honest - they mostly seem to duplicate the content that's covered on Wikipedia, with far fewer articles, and much less traffic. Whereas the gaming achievement site being discussed here would fill a different niche.

2. It might be worth submitting strategies to Wikibooks, which carries game FAQs and guides. There is a very rough GoldenEye section, so that could be expanded. But Wikibooks probably wouldn't get the community you'd have with a dedicated score attack/time attack/speedrunning site, even if it had more traffic, because editors would probably stick to the sections on their own games.

Ngamer · « **Reply #23 on:** April 18, 2006, 05:15:00 pm »

Whoa, thank you Nick. Did not realize there were so many "gaming wikis" already online and operational; that's good to know. You're right, the general names just aren't going to cut it in that case... we're going for a very different audience here, and will need to stand out from the crowd if we want to attract them.

gamingwiki and wiki.vg are out now that we have this news, as I see it. speedrunwiki is looking more and more like the way to go...

EDIT - Update!

Stickmansam 1024 (1:39:43 PM): strategywiki.net/wiki/Main_Page
Stickmansam 1024 (2:26:38 PM): well, in a way this focuses our plans somewhat
Stickmansam 1024 (2:26:50 PM): firstly it rules out about 35% of our possible names
Stickmansam 1024 (2:27:14 PM): secondly our target is no longer "be good, generally" but "beat these guys into the ground"
Stickmansam 1024 (2:27:24 PM): also, "be different from them"
Stickmansam 1024 (2:28:49 PM): so some actions we should take at this point
Stickmansam 1024 (2:28:57 PM): 1) WAIT and make sure we have something killer before we go live
Stickmansam 1024 (2:29:20 PM): for example, get a lot of strategists together and get a complete set of PD strats going
Stickmansam 1024 (2:29:50 PM): 2) we have to dazzle these people right out of the starting gate
Stickmansam 1024 (2:30:04 PM): which means we need to put lots and lots of awesome tricks right up there on the front page
Stickmansam 1024 (2:30:23 PM): Defection Glitch, Shadow Temple Early, MK64's most insane shortcuts, whatever
Stickmansam 1024 (2:30:48 PM): so people go there and think
Stickmansam 1024 (2:30:56 PM): "this isn't just another strategy site"
Stickmansam 1024 (2:31:09 PM): "this is for people who are going beyond GameFAQs - WAY beyond"
Stickmansam 1024 (2:32:13 PM): also, we have to differentiate ourselves from GameFAQs
Stickmansam 1024 (2:33:18 PM): I think it does underline more than anything that we can't afford to just go live with an empty Wiki and no design
Stickmansam 1024 (2:33:41 PM): this site has a good amount of content and has had a lukewarm reception

SamSim · « **Reply #24 on:** April 24, 2006, 01:06:00 pm »

I wrote some stuff for the front page. In the absence of a fixed name, I have substituted the word "Awesomelasers".

SDA + t-e.n + N64HS + scopinfo + MK = Awesomelasers

Awesomelasers IS:

A videogame strategy website dedicated to taking gaming above and beyond.
Faster times.
Higher scores.
More insane stunts.
Stuff you've never even SEEN before.
Man versus machine.
FULL OF SPOILERS.
For gamers who already know what they're doing, and want to do it a hell of a lot better.
Not beating games, but beating them into a bloody pulp.
The theory and practice of advanced videogaming.
A celebration of those who made it possible.

Awesomelasers IS NOT:

GameFAQs.
Walkthroughs.
Emulated play, tool-assisted runs, GameSharks, or just plain cheating.
For idiots.
Multiplayer.

Why a Wiki?

Because one person alone cannot do all the work.
Because YOU might know something nobody else does.

deletedprofile.u · « **Reply #25 on:** April 29, 2006, 11:02:00 am »

"You say 4 levels can be unlocked by completing various difficulties, but if i'm not mistaken The Duel is unlocked by getting all bronze medals in the firing range."
--Henrik Norgren (Earlier in this topic)

This isn't completely true. The Duel is unlocked by beating Agent and getting bronze on everything in the range. I tried "cheating" to get The Duel by doing this. On Battle Shrine, which I still haven't beaten (on Agent), I got the slayer so the game thought I had it and therefore I was able to use it in the range, even though I did get bronze on it, I was unable to access The Duel because I hadn't beaten Battle Shrine.

Ngamer · « **Reply #26 on:** April 29, 2006, 12:52:00 pm »

I like the cut of your jib, curbstomp. Hop on AIM and come join us in Chat this weekend.

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #27 on:** April 29, 2006, 03:15:00 pm »

it's obvious that to get to a certain level, you need to have finished all levels prior to it.

Your Eliteness · « **Reply #28 on:** April 29, 2006, 11:10:00 pm »

Actually, I'm quite sure you can unlock the Duel without unlocking Ruins. You need to get to CI to get a laser, but the rest you can do in the CS challenges.

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #29 on:** April 30, 2006, 07:08:00 am »

yeah, but unlocking and making accessible are probably not the same thing, right?

Your Eliteness · « **Reply #30 on:** April 30, 2006, 09:25:00 am »

Proof that you guys have no idea what you're talking about.

deletedprofile.u · « **Reply #31 on:** May 03, 2006, 08:53:00 am »

Yeah, but is that the NTSC or PAL version? I'm using NTSC, and I have bronze on everything. But I haven't beaten Battle Shrine. Whatever.

Your Eliteness · « **Reply #32 on:** May 03, 2006, 09:40:00 am »

It's NTSC. You don't have all the weapons.

Narigutita · « **Reply #33 on:** May 03, 2006, 10:17:00 pm »

well, the only thing you need ruins for, is for getting slayer, right?
if you can get it elsewhere...

Comet · « **Reply #34 on:** May 03, 2006, 10:27:00 pm »

You can get one in Attack Ship, I believe

Narigutita · « **Reply #35 on:** May 04, 2006, 01:04:00 am »

YEs vid has only until CI

bcks · « **Reply #36 on:** May 04, 2006, 01:11:00 am »

Maybe you get it from challenges? (the slayer)

Comet · « **Reply #37 on:** May 04, 2006, 03:29:00 pm »

There is a challenge with KOTH with slayers in the Temple

Lark · « **Reply #38 on:** May 04, 2006, 03:45:00 pm »

Yea, that would be challenge 18.

Wabs · « **Reply #39 on:** May 05, 2006, 03:10:00 am »

No.
Challenge 18 is indeed KOTH but that's in Villa with maians.

deletedprofile.u · « **Reply #40 on:** May 05, 2006, 09:10:00 am »

I have all the weapons with bronze, including the slayer. I still am not able to play The Duel. Anybody know why this doesn't work?

Narigutita · « **Reply #41 on:** May 05, 2006, 11:58:00 am »

challenge 17 is the temple one, where DanSim cam use fly by wire

DarkSlayer64 · « **Reply #42 on:** May 05, 2006, 12:00:00 pm »

Blue Lightning is right, there is a Slayer in Attack Ship.

Narigutita · « **Reply #43 on:** May 05, 2006, 04:51:00 pm »

YE didn't openned attack ship, as i said

mrsooreams · « **Reply #44 on:** May 06, 2006, 03:19:00 am »

Returning to the original topic, the Perfect Dark Wikipedia page will be featured on the front page on the 12th May. Wouldn't be surprised if you got a few click-throughs to here.

Ngamer · « **Reply #45 on:** May 06, 2006, 03:58:00 am »

Oh really? That's awesome Sauron, congrats!

Speaking of big news in the world of Wiki, the SRW came online 10 hours ago! Me and Mg have been working furiously to set everything up so that strats can be easily entered in the next few days, and we've made some great progress so far. The main page is here:

speedrun.elwiki.com/

But just look at all we've done: speedrun.elwiki.com/index...l:Allpages
And all the activity! speedrun.elwiki.com/index...500&days=3

Here's another good view: speedrun.elwiki.com/index...NGC-Elites

Everything is in place for PD, GE, and MK64, so those strats should be able to be just pasted in/typed up. I'm not sure exactly what to do with Ocarina and TS2, so I'll go ahead with something after talking to Sam and ST there.

Also, I think we need a mission statement article. The front page blurb almost sums it up all the way, but I'm still imagining some confusion from guys editing in multiplayer hit combos in Melee or good Terran build orders in StarCraft.

EDIT - Sign up with your own info Sam, and then I'll turn that account into an Admin! Same for Booth.

deletedprofile.u · « **Reply #46 on:** May 06, 2006, 12:10:00 pm »

Good job. I add something, but I barely play PD. I only can when I'm at zergy's house. =( I play on an emulator sometimes, but you guys discourage that I hear. Well, it is much easier to cheat with one. (In my opinion at least).

Soft-Hedwig · « **Reply #47 on:** May 06, 2006, 01:59:00 pm »

Crbsij

Lark · « **Reply #48 on:** May 06, 2006, 06:44:00 pm »

I don't understand...

Where is says (talk) next to someones name, is that just a message board.

Ngamer · « **Reply #49 on:** May 07, 2006, 02:06:00 am »

There's a "talk" or "discussion" section attached to every article in the Wiki. Yes, you can think of them as little message boards if you want... the idea is that if someone thinks the article should be run a different way, they post about it on the talk page. Then the editors see that suggestion and reply back, and we come to a decision on where to go from there.

In other news, SRW is going great! We're about to create our 200th article, and have already been adding pictures, some content, and plenty of links to all the different game pages. We're ready to roll with strats for PD, GE, MK64, SMK, MKDS, and parts of TS2.

News:

Author Topic: Wikipedia page (Read 3563 times)