Author Topic: PD is DIFFICULT.....  (Read 1111 times)

PD is DIFFICULT.....
« on: September 07, 2005, 08:10:00 pm »
Guess who this is.  I used to play Goldeneye until i threw the cart in a lake.  First post in a year or so - just to get an opinion about the general difficulty of this game.  I'm not turning to PD or anything, but when i DO venture into speed runs (well, a little), the fact of the matter is that i suck completely.  I always did, even during my GE career i could not play this game.  And comparing the level points breakdown in the two games, it would suggest PD is easier, but i cant see how:

A)  I have played Infiltration agent for about 4 hours this week, and despite copying the 1.12 vid i've seen, and apparently strafing beautifully (as well as i did in my GE days), my PR is 1.21.  TEN seconds lost.  And bizarrely, this time is worth precisely ZERO.  I dont expect the WR, but i dont lose any more than 3-4 secs on the whole run.  I'm using cruise, and should get at least a 1.16.  But no.

I then turn to Goldeneye...to see that 1.07 Caverns A is still worth points.  1.23 Silo A - still worth a point!!!!  If i had never seen the PD ranks, then coming from a GE-only background i would expect 1.21 Infiltration agent to be worth at least 40 points.  I literally would have to play for a whole day to squeeze below 1.20 even.  It sickens me.

B) Copying Karls Chicago PA 28 vid.  I completed the Strat for the first time today.  46!!!?!?!  If anything i was pleased as it was coming down from 9.50, but i didnt lose any more than 5 seconds [again] and for some reason, i was having real trouble with health.   He hardly loses any.  If i played with invincible and apparently good strafing, i doubt i could get much better than about a 38-fail.

C)  Perfect agent in general.  On PD, the health-sapping guards surely make it harder than GE.  You can die in 1 second, literally.  BUT all the time people have, are really close to to the WR (as in to get any points, you have to be less than 1 minute off).  Crash Site PA, say, i watched the 1.53 vid and it is phenomenal.  The pointless time is 2.52, less than a minute away, despite what looks like a very difficult level to survive, and a tough strat to complete.  I struggle to get any completion at all on these PA levels, the guards are shits.
THEN i turn to Caverns 00A.  5.56 still gets points!  Why why why?  Thats over 4 minutes off.  My time is rubbish, on PD that much effort would be no points, but i have 67(?)

And i still cant beat War PA.  Cant even get to the second king!


So, my question is this:  Is PD really an easier game than GE to get times on, or is it simply because much more effort has been put in to the game?  The apparent effort needed to get GE points seeme to be 100 times less - and looking at the times lists, my pre-elite Goldeneye times would get me a few hundred points, still.  On PD, despite watching all the vids, i have precisly 100 points on the whole game.  You know where from.  Perhaps i'm slightly bitter because when i bought the game, i wanted to waltz in and get 5000 points but it wouldnt materialise.

Another comment about speed....could my cart/expansion pak be the cause?  I have 20 Chicago agent, despite many hours play.  And in a conversation with Peter Osterland back in 2003, he claimed he could only get 19, and "that was tough for him".  Yet he's a strafemaster at GE.  Maybe his was broken too, because copying an agent video for speed should be easy for first-person shooter veterans like us.  You need 17 just to get any points at all, so that fact that i cant beat 20 is embarrasing.  Comparing the two rankings, 16 is shown to be easier than 23 runway.  How?


Some thoughts would be interesting............what is the key to PD speed, and why do i have gross speed trouble?  As i said, i strafe as well as before.  If i could play GE now, i'd be getting 1.04 cavs in minutes.  Is it normal to have a difficult transition between the two games? The amount of trouble i have is really sickening, because i would have liked to get just slightly good at this game.


;) :b :o  >D :(

Cervone

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2005, 08:20:00 pm »
Wow, Harvey! <3

In my opinion, the levels in PD are more complicated and harder to learn than GE, but once you get a feel for them, it's easier to get a 80+ point time.

PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2005, 08:25:00 pm »
hmmn, you really think so?  You've read my Chicago Agent story.  I must be gay.  And the defection agent, i can rarely do the glitch.  And even if i did it and hit the lift, the time would be about 12.  I SMELL >:

Anyhow...I must confess to having purchased GE on eBay recently ( :D  ).  I want it back, to @#%$ around with, whether i try for times or not.  I might aim to get a few key times to keep my points ticking along, as long as i dont obsess like i did before.  Concentrating on quality rather than quantity, would put my name firmer in history ;)

but i wont be playing until at least Christmas, so...meh.


Matt-Cook1

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2005, 08:41:00 pm »

PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2005, 09:29:00 pm »
ouch...give me some credit >: >:

:p

bcks

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2005, 10:44:00 pm »
Sweet Harvey is back.:)  Levels that are easy to get used to for none-pd players, but ge vets, imo are rescue/maian sos and belive it or not war, plus duel of course. Fairly simple levels. I managed to get on the leaderboards for awile, without too much trouble. I tryed chicago and sucked very bad at it, so just stay away from that level till you know more about pd. Play some ge too, get aim again too.;)

..

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2005, 12:02:00 am »
Get on AIM sometime, Harv. :P

GoldenGreg007

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2005, 01:13:00 am »
harvvv what up pimp?!

Wyst3r

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2005, 02:13:00 am »
I experienced the same kind of problems first time playing PD seriously as you do right now Harvey. First of all, Are you PAL? Cause in that case 1:12 is impossible. What you should go for is like 1:16-1:17. I used to have 1:21 too as my pr and thought lower seemed impossible but i shaved of second after second and suddenly i have 1:16. It's very similar to Mario kart, One week you might get an insane run on a level and seems like you'll never beat it but next week you easily beat it by a second or two. I can't really explain why but that's how it is.
And as Dan said, 80+ pointers are pretty easy when you get used to the game(takes ages though), Even i get them and i:
1: suck at pd
2: is PAL

So keep playing and you'll see your times fall. But be sure not to play one level over and over again, That way you wont gain anything. Play as many diffrent levels as you can before going back to a level and it'll be much easier.

Infected Mind

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2005, 03:04:00 am »
1.2 is alot more advantaged in PD, as is NTSC except for deep sea a/sa

also if i recall, the strafe angles of ge and pd arent the same, you gotta use a different angle on pd for full speed or something?
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Boss

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2005, 03:18:00 am »
Welcome back, Harvey. :D   Yeah, the strafe angle is definitely different.  Also you move way faster.  Each mistake (bumps, bad lines) you lose more time relative to GE.  Knowledge is very important, with strats/how guards respond/etc.  As Dan said, the levels are more complex for the most part.  I struggled with this game for some time getting 0 pointers and such.  Just studying the vids for a while should give you an idea where time is lost.  I think this is the time to change to 1.2 if you are serious about playing PD. ;)   That and considering NTSC.

Wabs

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2005, 08:28:00 am »
I don't really think 1-2 is the problem.
I got the exact same feeling than you harvey... on GE !
I play Dam 00 ... with 1-2, I got a very nice run, straffing the whole time in the tunnel, no mistakes, it really looks pretty decent to me and all I got is ... 2:17 which is ridiculous when everyone agrees on sub 2:10 being easy... :o  
On PD, all my PRs are 1-1 and although they completely suck in agent, I didn't have troubles at all getting 16 on chicago or other not too crappy times.
You see, on PD, two years ago, I got some average times playing 1-1 and they are still worth like 50 points now. On GE, right now I have troubles to get more than 50 points even if I use 1-2.
I just think it's a bit hard to switch from GE to PD or from PD to GE and it just takes some time.

PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2005, 08:41:00 am »
Thanks people....

The comment from Henrik about PAL...VERY interesting. I am of course PAL, being a UK gamer.  So can i assume that Karl and YE both had to obtain the other system to become champ?  It was only after extreme frustration that Wouter turned to NTSC to get the Dam agent record...so have a huge bunch of PALers moved over now?  Seems weird!  I'm sure Graham doesnt have NTSC.


I knew about a Deep Sea ADVANTAGE in PAL, but not an overall DISadvantage.
I cant get better than a 0.50/0.51 holedrop in Maian A. Is that good or bad for PAL?  It stops me getting better than a 1.34ish second lift opening (i watch most of the cutscene).  My time is 1.58, no points.


Hey Brian :D     Nice job on becoming Duel champ!  When i read that news, i thought it was referring to a 2/5/8 untied sweep of the Duel level itself.  LOL :p  

Indeed the strafing seems faster, such that the videos can become hard to follow (need to be watched with combat boosts in media player :rollin   ).  I suspected about the 1.2 being better, but i cant get out of the habit of pulling forward/back on the stick, ruining the run.  I'll have to have a few hours transition....if i can bear it!  It would be nice to have ambi skills, because i know valentin strafing is easier with 1.1 for example. if only GE had instant pause/toggle abilities!

Hey Greg :D     whats up?  did you get my email?


And i might as well confess....the sabotage of my GE times page was ME and no one else.  I wanted to get banned, so i would be free from the temptation to return.  But whoever got me mirrored on to the ranks....you've caused me to be tempted back...though not with the same zest as before.  We shall see.



Harvey


ps.  Help me beat War!  PA.  I concluded that running through is easier for health than a creeper strategy, because of respawning Skedar and the fact that they are *@#%$* lethal compared to guys.  I normally hope the Maian team will clean up for me, but they always die soon after the first King, so no.  GAYGAYGAYGAYGAYGAYGAYGAYGAY

Wabs

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2005, 08:50:00 am »
Yeah, YE and Karl got NTSC.
Don't be too much worried about your 1:21 Infiltration Agent, I don't mean it's good but there's a HUGE Pal disadvantage (lifts + last door) here. So 1:21 is probably a common start from someone PAL starting to play this level. I remember the time when almost all PALers had 1:17 there, now it's obviously better (I have no idea about the PAL record here though) but that's still a very difficult level for PAL players, considering points I mean.

Your Eliteness

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2005, 10:21:00 am »
The PAL record for Infil Agent is 1:15, held by me, Matt and Phil Hughes.

GoldenGreg007

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2005, 12:32:00 pm »
yeah i got your email, i kept forgetting to send you one back, but i still intend to when i get some time.

Wyst3r

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2005, 01:08:00 pm »
harvey, Graham has ntsc, Got it a couple of months ago from wiwf.

YE, The PAL wr is 1:14(Phil).

Harvey again, PAL doesn't loose time EVERYWHERE. It's mainly on lifts and stuff. Deep Sea is advantaged cause PAL can reach further zooming with the Far sight than ntsc

Btw, it's DUAL champ, not DUEL.

PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2005, 02:00:00 pm »
So does this mean that PAL players have to accept having shitty times, and put up with it?  Thats a little sucky!  A bias should be included into the times on those levels....

I did wonder about the last door on Infil....on the 1.12 i saw, its open and can be flown into, hmmn.


Henrik...i know the correct spelling!! :p :p   (ps.  how many hours for 16 archives?)


Harvey

wishiwasfamous

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« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2005, 02:39:00 pm »
Harvey wants NTSC? :)

Wyst3r

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2005, 03:11:00 pm »
The last door is opened on ntsc, closed on pal. One of the reasons ntsc is faster. And yes, Pal'ers just have to live with it or get ntsc.

Hours for 16 eh? Around 5 :p

Infected Mind

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2005, 03:16:00 pm »
16 requires @#%$ load of luck

i have 1400+ 17s with over 40-50 hours of play id assume
 

gay level
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Wouter Jansen

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2005, 03:46:00 pm »
Nobody ever retires!!! :evil

PS, the 0 pointers could be a lot worse even, I update it like once each 2 months or something :p

Welcome back though, fellow! It's great how many people have come back this year :D

what's with your username? :p

I come from GE and my strongest levels are Villa PA and P2 A/SA ;)

Pretty much everyone invaded NTSC land by now :smokin

cruise is a really bad idea on PD  >D

Chat with knowledgeable people a lot 8o

I use NTSC for about 90-95% of GE/PD levels now :rollin

Doors also appear to be slower on PAL and there's many hardly noticeable very small things that are different.. 0]

Trying to use up all other emoticons: :rolleyes :eek >: 8) :) :x :p |I :( :b :lol :o :| :\ :hat
sexy, this

PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2005, 03:47:00 pm »
wow, 1400!!  There was a time when a man named Jansen would have sold his house just to get one of those....but on a different level :lol  :p  

oh...hey Wouter :D






:p

Phil-Hughes

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2005, 04:00:00 pm »
Hey Harvey, good to see you back. That story about throwing your cartridge into the lake has become legendary and made me laugh a fair bit. Good luck with playing PD and I think everybody struggles moving to the other game. I played GE for a little while and had similar experiences to Wabs as I too played Dam on all three difficulties. I'm looking to buy an NTSC Nintendo Revolution eventually when it is released and apparently it'll be possible to download games from previous consoles. As if I won't get Perfect Dark...

Wouter Jansen

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2005, 04:28:00 pm »
Somehow I got my Archives Agent 0:16 in 3 hours.  >D
sexy, this

PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2005, 04:52:00 pm »
Me thinks wouter didnt get my joke :rollin  


Hi Phil, indeed that story will go down in history!  On the pwnion that Mr Food made, it was on the homepage somewhere ;)  
That console sounds fascinating, i had no idea such a thing was in the pipeline.  I'm assuming you can get GE too....
It's GE that i'll be returning to, if i ever really return at all.  I havent got the makeup to be a PD stud, i just want to de-embarras myself and get maybe 2000 points.  Do you have any tips for a safe completion of War PA?  Gotta get it done :hat

Illu

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2005, 04:52:00 pm »
I think Muhammad Ali threw his olympic gold medal in a lake because he wasn't allowed into some place because he was black. I'm gonna try throwing myself into a lake someday... @#%$ pissed I am for warious reasons, don't you just give a @#%$ about it I don't want to hurt anyone just let me be pissed of people, the reason doesn't matter I just take out my anger here and it wasn't even my intention first it just became like that and now I'm gonna go @#%$ play!!!!!1111

- Illu's Wrath :evil

PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2005, 04:54:00 pm »
so, you're the Dark LTK master?  Nice to meet you :D  
I didnt think ANY of the levels were beatable on those settings, for ammo reasons (except maybe Runway).  Amazing stuff.....

Illu

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2005, 04:56:00 pm »
hehe, thanks... lol

Djie

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« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2005, 04:59:00 pm »
Illu is craaaaaazy

PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2005, 05:00:00 pm »
how many headshots (with KF7 say) are needed to kill a guy on those settings?

deletedprofile.u

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PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2005, 05:44:00 pm »
Welcome back Harvey!

Tip: Defeat the third king before the second.  Otherwise, a friggin' army of Skedar spawn right before the third king, and these guys love to ruin your day.

Wouter Jansen

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« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2005, 05:52:00 pm »
10 headshots, or go on a slapping obsession on a single guy for about a minute worth of noises as per foreplay of the rest of the level assuming you have no lake in your house?
sexy, this

PD is DIFFICULT.....
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2005, 06:57:00 pm »
Thanks Mike....BUT i can report that i just completed the level, killing in the right order.  I just waited for the last bunch of skedar to come out, and ran around in circles to coax them away from the door, before going in for a sweet kill...:D


..

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« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2005, 08:28:00 pm »
PD and GE times gotten on the Revolution probably won't count towards The Elite ranks... but, we'll just have to see how it all works out.

Get on AIM sometime, Harv.

Oh, and I'm the one that mirrored your times page.  I figured your geocities account was just stolen and screwed with, but now that you confess... *smacks*

vitor

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« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2005, 10:58:00 pm »
Go to the options, on whatever way. Then go on Display settings, and turn on the "game timer". Then ask for some TT's and compare those with yours. It's the best way to see where you are doing mistakes.

(as stupid as it sounds).

edit: typo