Author Topic: http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/w00ter0/elite.htm (Read 1888 times)

Wouter Jansen · « **on:** January 10, 2004, 03:48:00 pm »

everyone tell me what you think..

I've worked about all day on it, but from now on it will be easy to manage and all.

www.angelfire.com/weird2/.../elite.htm

Ngamer · « **Reply #1 on:** January 10, 2004, 05:20:00 pm »

That's nice. A couple things:

This isn't GE... give us our nicknames back.

Give us our colors back.

Good to have an updater and all, but this isn't going to be official unless Wabs and Sam have access to updating as well, both the main page and the times pages.

Speaking of which, there should be a link to the roster to see what vids you've all seen.

JugadorJ3 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 10, 2004, 05:34:00 pm »

I think the page is good... but I can't really see a point in having rankings. Nobody is going to try and "gain a rank in the proven rankings". Just a records table would be good enough.

renemesis · « **Reply #3 on:** January 10, 2004, 05:34:00 pm »

Uhg. Picky, picky Jon.

Nice page, Wouter. Yours owns YE's.

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #4 on:** January 10, 2004, 05:45:00 pm »

watch this lovely roster

www.angelfire.com/weird2/...roster.htm

.. · « **Reply #5 on:** January 10, 2004, 06:44:00 pm »

Nice Wouter.

How is there no point in having rankings??? Because YE isnt first because he hasn't proved like.. half his times??? You are just mad that Bryan and Paragon are pwnage and YE is suckage.

ChodhE · « **Reply #6 on:** January 11, 2004, 02:52:00 am »

neat, I like the fact you used real names

SamSim · « **Reply #7 on:** January 12, 2004, 05:56:00 pm »

@ Claude "ChodhE" Boucher

One thing I would say is that James Bird (Kingpin) is listed on that site. If you've been banned from the main Elite then there's no way you can be a part of the Proven Elite. Speaking of which, is Shade banned at the moment? I keep losing track.

Although I appreciate the effort, Wabs and I got here first. I'm not sure why we need another one...

Djie · « **Reply #8 on:** January 12, 2004, 06:23:00 pm »

yeah I'm not in the elite, just making a fool out of it every now and then

Edit: And I don't see why people that are banned cannot be on that site. The proven elite says it all, it's the elite with the times that have been proven. Whoever has a vid has the right to have that time on that page.

Neo · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2004, 01:05:00 am »

What the hell? Not allowing people with some proven times into the proven Elite? That's probably the gayest thing I've heard...in the past 5 minutes. Nevertheless, it's gay. Leave Shade and the others in, obviously.

SamSim · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2004, 08:13:00 am »

Don't think of it as "not allowing people with proven times into the proven Elite". Think of it as "not allowing people who aren't in the Elite into the proven Elite". "Proven PDE" means "that part of the PDE which has been proven". If we weren't calling it "Elite" then we could legitimately add banned players' videos, but that's not we're trying to do.

It's a credibility issue. I have long had my doubts over the overall veracity of the vanilla PDE rankings, simply because of how amazingly easy it would be to lie one's way into 50th place or, with care, much higher, and I am certain that visitors to t-e.n who know next to nothing about the challenge of speed times or the players involved are equally sceptical. I'm trying therefore to make the Elite's claims as credible as possible.

What I *really* want is a searchable database of all the videos. Probably never happen though.

Boss · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2004, 02:10:00 pm »

There's people in the top 20 without a single video online, GE too I bet.

MrFood1 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2004, 03:50:00 pm »

I don't see how it's a credibility issue if the only way to get on the rankings is have a taped time. If anything, the regular PDE is a credibility issue.

SlayerRocket · « **Reply #13 on:** January 13, 2004, 06:00:00 pm »

Ive proven lots of my times, but none of my vids have been put online... It doesnt mean anything if the vids arent online, the times are still proven...

SamSim · « **Reply #14 on:** January 13, 2004, 08:56:00 pm »

It doesn't matter if a vid is online, as long as me or Wabs have seen it.

.. · « **Reply #15 on:** January 13, 2004, 08:59:00 pm »

Then thats hardly "proven"... proven elite is about the vid being available for anyone to see at anytime.. meaning, someone has a video of it that they can distribute to others through this thing called the Internet...

I'll just start my own proven elite and have all my times in it since I've seen them and thats enough to prove me.

Neo · « **Reply #16 on:** January 14, 2004, 12:46:00 am »

Quote

Quote:
I'll just start my own proven elite and have all my times in it since I've seen them and thats enough to prove me.

*h5's Come*

nspd 2 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 14, 2004, 06:44:00 pm »

The whole point of the "PROVEN Elite" is that it's basically just any times that people prove. If I wanted to, I could make a defection agent: 1:25 and be in it, even if I was banned (or anyone who is banned at the moment). I have proven that I got the time and made the video for everyone to see, why would I not be allowed in?

Who cares if someone has been banned, if they prove a time, then that time should definitely be in.

I think they should have video runs only, not just stuff like "omg we are teh moods, we sawed em!111 they are provend!"
Kinda like the Brazilian rankings at the moment :rolleyes

SamSim · « **Reply #18 on:** January 14, 2004, 08:36:00 pm »

Yeah, well if you're gonna do it that way, I'd suggest you probably shouldn't call your rankings "Elite".

.. · « **Reply #19 on:** January 14, 2004, 08:43:00 pm »

I suggest you probably shouldn't call yours "proven" if the vid is not online.

:smokin

nspd 2 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 14, 2004, 08:59:00 pm »

Elite just means your good (although I noticed most people who claim to be "Elite" at games usually suck and just say that make them look good).

So how can we be sure if you're "elite" if someone says "ohh yea we saw a video of him beat this level in 1:10, he's definitely "elite" and good and stuff."

And if you have a video of that same time from someone else, what makes them not "elite" ?

It just doesn't make sense...if it's about being "elite", then how come one person can get a time proven with a video and be considered elite, but another person get that same time with a video and not be considered elite?

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #21 on:** January 15, 2004, 05:24:00 am »

I see it this way

The Elite = Group of gamers, a noun.
Proven Elite = Group of gamers that have proven themselves, with what they have proven.

SamSim · « **Reply #22 on:** January 16, 2004, 11:02:00 am »

Since the dawn of time, the "Elite" in "Perfect Dark Elite" has just been a name. It in no way implies that you have to be elite in the usual sense to join, otherwise we would have 1/10th as many members.

Besides which, all the videos me and Wabs have seen are available online for anybody to see, otherwise how did we get hold of them?

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #23 on:** January 16, 2004, 12:19:00 pm »

You can get everything I ranked from me.

.. · « **Reply #24 on:** January 16, 2004, 01:06:00 pm »

Quote

Quote:
It doesn't matter if a vid is online, as long as me or Wabs have seen it.

Okay, so all the vids there are online, but you say that it doesn't matter if it is online, which it obviously does matter because than you could just be lying about seeing the video.

Why don't you just let it go and let Wouter run it since he's put together a more complete listing and since he already runs the GE Proven Elite? Or maybe you could ask if he would like some assistance and you two can collaborate on the project.

Boss · « **Reply #25 on:** January 16, 2004, 01:29:00 pm »

Agreed, Wouter's proven rankings is better.

MrFood1 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 16, 2004, 02:59:00 pm »

Stop it, guys. You're hurting Sam's ego.

Wabs · « **Reply #27 on:** January 16, 2004, 04:12:00 pm »

well , we do add only videos of complete runs , whereas I've seen several times on wouter's rankings "proven" by weird videos : uncomplete runs or faster frame-rate ( example : a video of a 2:32 run which is only 2 minutes long ) etc .
I don't know if you guys consider those are proofs , but better keep in mind breck's 2:43 vid on inves pa ...

by the way , about the problem of "being in the elite to have vids added on the PPDE" , I must admit I disagree with sam there : I think every proven time should be added

oh lastly , about videos being online or not , I've always thought the proven rankings should be like a huge listing of every video available . Which means uncaptured runs ( even if they've been seen by moderators ) can't be added , as well as uncomplete videos . basically , every vid available online or via AIM should be in .
At least , that's how I think proven rankings should be

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #28 on:** January 16, 2004, 05:28:00 pm »

Let's not start arguing about videos possibly being fake, all could be fake. But it's not something reasonable for a person to edit a whole video perfectly for a certain time (especially if it's nothing special).

Keep in mind, for me too, THE REASON for the proven rankings = Database for available videos. It's an easy way to see if what videos you want exist.

Wabs · « **Reply #29 on:** January 16, 2004, 05:41:00 pm »

We already talked about this on aim wouter.
Of course every video has a small chance to be faked , that's why you have to make choices .
Adding every video existing "because" all videos could be fake would be stupid : then you'd add also vids which are really faked ( like breck's 2:43 ) "because" you can't really prove a vid is fake and an other isn't .
I don't think that's how it should work , I personaly don't wanna add a vid of a 2:30 run which is only 2 minutes long .
OF COURSE , that doesn't mean all the vids we add are 100% non-faked , no one knows . And that doesn't mean that 2 minutes vid is fake . But you have to make choices , and I think it seems more reasonable to add a video which looks normal than adding a video which looks weird ...

and yeah , about the reason for the proven rankings , well we both agree here, that's cool ...

Djie · « **Reply #30 on:** January 16, 2004, 06:29:00 pm »

What is that vid you're talking about Wabs? I don't recall watching any 2:30 vid that lasted 2:00.

Jimbo · « **Reply #31 on:** January 16, 2004, 09:10:00 pm »

I have a Caverns Agent 1:04 vid (kind of a bad time now) which I cut the spiral out of. I personally thought it would be stupid to make the vid huge for a meh time like this, so I cut it kinda.....Of course, Wouter bitched.

bcks · « **Reply #32 on:** January 16, 2004, 11:51:00 pm »

i bitched too, remake the vid.

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #33 on:** January 17, 2004, 10:51:00 am »

yeah, cutting out 20 seconds saves like .8 MB or so, how huge.
I have a video for chicago 16 being like 30 sec, and it was 6 MB, go figure it's hugeness.

Also, the video I like most of all - Ben Gorman's Defense Agent 0:53.
It's ownage, you can see TTs and all, 2:24 video, 18,5 MB.

SamSim · « **Reply #34 on:** January 17, 2004, 02:55:00 pm »

All right, I can see I'm unlikely to be able to convince people not to allow entry for banned people with legit videos. Provided we keep an eye out for people like Mallow (had runs manufactured for him by Kingpin).

I am 100% against incomplete runs - even only a few seconds - though. You have to draw the line somewhere.

Ngamer · « **Reply #35 on:** January 17, 2004, 03:05:00 pm »

In any case, you three ought to work with each other to get the best rankings page online together. Probably be easiest to give Wabs and Sam access to the angelfire account, so they could edit the roster page as they see new videos.

Also, the video would have to be online in order for Wabs/Sam/Wouter to have seen it, so I don't see what there is to argue about in that regard.

PS - Give me back my nickname and color.

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #36 on:** January 17, 2004, 03:44:00 pm »

no way there's going nicknames on my rankings

trying to hide your real name huh?

Also, the roster pages are hosted on and updated from my own computer, they're not online thus.

And I could easily go and look for all videos where something is missing, if even 1 sec, and get them out, just give me the word

That would mean for example Shade's air base agent 1:16,
but also, stuff like Garretts Facility agent 49, it has no end screen with the time, nor the completion screen. and what about those vids where they cut the intros on the videos and it's really hard to see if the video started exactly when the run started, or if the run misses like .1 sec of it?
Or videos so small you can't see the time properly? A lot of Derek's stuff I think, since he had like 180x160 videos for a long time, etc etc.

I need a whole list of rules to go by if I need to be strict and fair for everyone, making the same rules apply to everyone.

Also, it's very unlikely that any video doesn't get to me in whatever way, so nobody else really needs to change the rosters anyway. The only thing we need to discuss is what rules we obey strictly. When is it considered legit proof? That's what I need to know and I can all do it myself for sure.

SamSim · « **Reply #37 on:** January 17, 2004, 11:31:00 pm »

I'd say this: I'm not worried about cutting out intro cinemas of longer levels (e.g. Infil) as long as the first frame of the run itself is visible. I'd call it .1 seconds or 1 second, but then people would just flaunt the rule, besides which we can't see the mission timer to verify that figure ANYWAY, which is the whole point in wanting a complete run.

From then on, no gaps until the whole endscreen is visible. There categorically has to be an endscreen and the time has to be legible. I think we can be a bit flexible with legibility, but if it's totally unreadable, like a white blur, then forget it. I've only seen one run which I've disallowed on that score, DMan's 1:54 CI PA. The run itself was of terrible quality, but the final screen was just a bright white oblong.

There are a few other special cases - Paragon cutting out the mid-level cinema in G5, Vinze fast-forwarding what appeared to be 25 minutes of speech-skipping in Def PA. These are open to discussion.

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #38 on:** January 18, 2004, 06:02:00 am »

well alrighty, don't be surprised when you find some times missing on coming updates, I might have removed some at times, whenever I find any incomplete runs.

bcks · « **Reply #39 on:** January 18, 2004, 07:03:00 am »

List the ones that get removed, then you will peak others intersets in why there removed. :lol

For real, do it.

SXR · « **Reply #40 on:** January 18, 2004, 06:15:00 pm »

Hmmm.. PDO captured it when I sent him a tape awhile back, I think I might still have a copy somewhere. It may also be useless depending on if I get a new time with the new strat. (which I'm dlwding the vid right now)

JugadorJ3 · « **Reply #41 on:** January 18, 2004, 09:38:00 pm »

What do yall think of my 137 Infil SA? Missed out on about 20 seconds midrun. Dman, you will get a new time. It's inevitable. You'll prob get the WR too.

renemesis · « **Reply #42 on:** January 19, 2004, 01:36:00 am »

Though I believe the time, etc, the 1:37 should not be counted.

Just get 1:29 or something on tape though. Should be cake.

(With my new strat)

JugadorJ3 · « **Reply #43 on:** January 19, 2004, 01:49:00 am »

I should have tried with ntsc. Oh well.

Speaking of new strats, how did everyone like the maian SA strat?

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #44 on:** January 24, 2004, 06:13:00 pm »

ok I made a decision and I'm not going to go look for any incomplete or bad videos because it's alot of work, and also, it's hard to set exact rules to apply to everyone without anyone having to bitch about it.
also, I think if there's a video, even if like a few seconds are missing (in the start), or the endscreen is missing (eg the time), I just count it if I can determine the run being legit enough to proof the time. With my knowledge I can base on what I DO see in the videos how much of truth is in it, and it's not that hard to see when it's fake. So I'm just keeping that escape 2:32, you can see the run is legit, it's just played faster because of a fault in capturing, so there are less frames, or more frames are played in 1 sec than it should.
etc etc.
also I'll allow Trent's crappy vids, but not videos where alot is missing, or an important part is missing, which is for me to say. Also, no cutting of parts of runs on purpose because it's all a straight way and nothing is happening either cuz that would basically make statue videos be about 30 seconds big.

But I suppose you 2 (Sam, Fabien) will keep going your own proven rankings anyway, it will just take more time to decide what's getting on there plus I don't think you get new videos as fast as I do, but that will have to do for yourselves. Anyone hesitant in seeing updates will have to settle with my rankings.

SamSim · « **Reply #45 on:** January 24, 2004, 08:15:00 pm »

We know my policy (zero-tolerance) and Wouter's (if it looks legit within reason, keep it), but not Wabs'. I'd like to know what Wabs thinks about all this.

Djie · « **Reply #46 on:** January 25, 2004, 04:13:00 pm »

Lecmasta's 53 Pelagic 2 A is availabe here

Wabs · « **Reply #47 on:** January 25, 2004, 04:27:00 pm »

well sam , I just think the same than you : only videos of full runs should be added . And only videos with normal frames
We agreed on this before starting our rankings , and my opinion hasn't changed

bcks · « **Reply #48 on:** January 25, 2004, 04:34:00 pm »

By full videos do you mean, only missing the first few tenths of a vid? and nothing else. If thats the case, many vids, are started just a tad late.

SamSim · « **Reply #49 on:** January 26, 2004, 04:28:00 pm »

Not as many as you'd think. Most people include the opening cinema in their videos.

News:

Author Topic: http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/w00ter0/elite.htm (Read 1888 times)

JugadorJ3

renemesis

nspd 2

nspd 2

JugadorJ3

renemesis

JugadorJ3